St. Louis Cardinals vs. Boston Redsox - 2013 World Series Discussion
- Thread starter nbafan88
- Start date
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
The inertia I see to St Lou's chances:
- A lot of Cards starters are young. Martinez, Kelly, Wacha, Siegrit & Rosenthal: 3 are in their first season, only one has appeared in more than 61 games (93), & none played in the Cards 2011 WS win. That's a healthy dose of inexperience that's being expected to bring home all the marbles in a situation where just 1 hiccup can cost you the bling.
- Cards starters don't get 3 all but "free" outs in 4 of 7 WS games. The Dodgers via Rameriz (injured), Ethier (injured) & the pitcher's spot (Greinke's turn excepted) batted a combined .146 (6-41) in the NLCS. You rarely win a 7 game series with a 1/3rd of your lineup producing to such a pitiful degree, esp. w/2 of those 3 spots so high in the order.
- Cards own batting is pathetic to record levels (at least was until game 6, as highlighted in numerous ways in the commentary - Thorne/Sutcliffe - for that game. No doubt those 9 runs have since muted some of the various ways they've been shit to a record degree). And that's before you consider Boston's ace is a lefty, and the Cards hate lefties even on their better days.
The inertia I see to the RSox chances:
- Their batting, while it improved as time went on vs. the Tigers, still isn't firing on all cylinders. Take away just 2 ABs from their ALCS (Big Papi's & Victorino's grand slams, which accounted for almost half the runs they scored) and suddenly things look somewhat more bleaker.
- IMO over half of Boston's starters outside of Lester can't be trusted to deliver, as of a right, a good start at their worst. I'd not be suprised for the Cards- as weak as they're batting - to get to Lackey or Pissvy in any given start they make.
Cards WS winning hopes have to be led by their pitching (I can't se too many disagreeing with that appraisal: on what basis is anyone going to assert their batting is going to suddenly "come right"? Even as I myself have stated a lack of trust in 2 of the Sox pitchers, that doesn't mean I don't believe they can't come out & dominate, just that I don't expect it), but those hopes for me are undermined by the amount of critical weight the youth in their rotation is expected to bear in the most pressure filled situation they'll ever face, which to me gives the edge for this series to Boston. As much as Boston's bats struggled against Detroit, they've only once failed to score a sizable amount of runs at Fenway these playoffs, and of course they have HFA. If the Cards are to win, I'd expect Waino would have to win every start he makes: the fact Boston have lined up their ace lefty against his starts, leave the chances of that happening taking a decent nose dive. I'd expect Boston in 6 (then 7), if the Cards young pitchers keep their nerve. If they don't, then 6 max. Boston's bats aren't producing nearly enough for me to think sweep.
- A lot of Cards starters are young. Martinez, Kelly, Wacha, Siegrit & Rosenthal: 3 are in their first season, only one has appeared in more than 61 games (93), & none played in the Cards 2011 WS win. That's a healthy dose of inexperience that's being expected to bring home all the marbles in a situation where just 1 hiccup can cost you the bling.
- Cards starters don't get 3 all but "free" outs in 4 of 7 WS games. The Dodgers via Rameriz (injured), Ethier (injured) & the pitcher's spot (Greinke's turn excepted) batted a combined .146 (6-41) in the NLCS. You rarely win a 7 game series with a 1/3rd of your lineup producing to such a pitiful degree, esp. w/2 of those 3 spots so high in the order.
- Cards own batting is pathetic to record levels (at least was until game 6, as highlighted in numerous ways in the commentary - Thorne/Sutcliffe - for that game. No doubt those 9 runs have since muted some of the various ways they've been shit to a record degree). And that's before you consider Boston's ace is a lefty, and the Cards hate lefties even on their better days.
The inertia I see to the RSox chances:
- Their batting, while it improved as time went on vs. the Tigers, still isn't firing on all cylinders. Take away just 2 ABs from their ALCS (Big Papi's & Victorino's grand slams, which accounted for almost half the runs they scored) and suddenly things look somewhat more bleaker.
- IMO over half of Boston's starters outside of Lester can't be trusted to deliver, as of a right, a good start at their worst. I'd not be suprised for the Cards- as weak as they're batting - to get to Lackey or Pissvy in any given start they make.
Cards WS winning hopes have to be led by their pitching (I can't se too many disagreeing with that appraisal: on what basis is anyone going to assert their batting is going to suddenly "come right"? Even as I myself have stated a lack of trust in 2 of the Sox pitchers, that doesn't mean I don't believe they can't come out & dominate, just that I don't expect it), but those hopes for me are undermined by the amount of critical weight the youth in their rotation is expected to bear in the most pressure filled situation they'll ever face, which to me gives the edge for this series to Boston. As much as Boston's bats struggled against Detroit, they've only once failed to score a sizable amount of runs at Fenway these playoffs, and of course they have HFA. If the Cards are to win, I'd expect Waino would have to win every start he makes: the fact Boston have lined up their ace lefty against his starts, leave the chances of that happening taking a decent nose dive. I'd expect Boston in 6 (then 7), if the Cards young pitchers keep their nerve. If they don't, then 6 max. Boston's bats aren't producing nearly enough for me to think sweep.
G
Gyno
Guest
Love Red Sox in game 1
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Sox bats at Fenway supported by a lefty starter, and Waino pitching on the road (concedes almost 1 whole run - 0.83 - more on the road vs. being at home). Plus Sox have had 1 less day off, haven't had to travel.
I think can appreciate your position.
Yanks27Sox9
CTG Partner
yep. should be a good, competitive series.
G
Gyno
Guest
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Some aren't reading your mind -
[TABLE="class: data"]
<tbody>[TR="bgcolor: #ecece4"]
[TD="class: smtext2, width: 40%"]Pinnacle[/TD]
[TD="class: datahl2c, width: 30%, align: center"]Line[/TD]
[TD="class: datahl2c, width: 30%, align: center"]Over/Under[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffff"]
[TD="class: smtext2"]10/20/13 10:12:34 AM[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]-125 (Open)[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]7
(Open)-123
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffff"]
[TD="class: smtext2"]10/20/13 2:12:36 PM[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]-127[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]7
-117
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffff"]
[TD="class: smtext2"]10/20/13 6:12:37 PM[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]-119[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]7
-117
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffff"]
[TD="class: smtext2"]10/20/13 6:22:36 PM[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]-121[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]7
-117
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffff"]
[TD="class: smtext2"]10/20/13 11:52:33 PM[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]-117[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]7
-117
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffff"]
[TD="class: smtext2"]10/21/13 12:02:33 AM[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]-117[/TD]
[TD="class: smtext2, align: center"]7
-114
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
G
Gyno
Guest
Not sure why...
jdoggoakley
Pretty much a regular
Played the Cards for the series at +130.
I think Craig will supply an offensive boost to the lineup. I like the Cards starting staff over the Sox. I think Yadie has a huge advantage both offensively and defensively over Salty or Ross and experience behind the dish is very important in the Series. Call it a gut play, but I think at that number, I have a decent shot with the dog.
From a hitting stand point, I understand the Cards bats were quiet, but as you know, baseball is all about confidence and momentum. Cards just put an ass whipping on arguably the best lefty in the game to win the pennant. Not sure Lester will scare them after seeing Kershaw.
I think Craig will supply an offensive boost to the lineup. I like the Cards starting staff over the Sox. I think Yadie has a huge advantage both offensively and defensively over Salty or Ross and experience behind the dish is very important in the Series. Call it a gut play, but I think at that number, I have a decent shot with the dog.
From a hitting stand point, I understand the Cards bats were quiet, but as you know, baseball is all about confidence and momentum. Cards just put an ass whipping on arguably the best lefty in the game to win the pennant. Not sure Lester will scare them after seeing Kershaw.
aplous
Donkey Hater
I bet Stl +135 for the series. IMO the Dodgers were the best team....beating them in 6 was impressive. I see a split in the first 2 games with Wacha and Waino going. Getting Craig back is huge. Also 3 games in STL where does Ortiz play? Big dilemma there either lose his bat or roll with a weak glove at 1B.
Yes, Cards struggles v LHP this year but that number was way worse in the 1st half of the year, then they beat Kershaw 2x (confidence boost) and now they get their best RH bat back.
Cards in 5 or 6 no homer shit Royals still my team though Ill be at Game 3.
Yes, Cards struggles v LHP this year but that number was way worse in the 1st half of the year, then they beat Kershaw 2x (confidence boost) and now they get their best RH bat back.
Cards in 5 or 6 no homer shit Royals still my team though Ill be at Game 3.
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
i just dont see how you could see the dodgers being the best in the league
simply based on strength of the competition alone
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
Redsox series line has come down to -140 from -155. Interesting.
Lots of cardinals love. Very interesting. Wainwright and wacha are definitely formidable. Not really scared of anyone else on the cardinals pitching staff. Boston's line up isn't a cakewalk like the national league teams face for a lot of the year. Boston wears pitching staffs down. Guess we will just wait and see tomorrow.
Lots of cardinals love. Very interesting. Wainwright and wacha are definitely formidable. Not really scared of anyone else on the cardinals pitching staff. Boston's line up isn't a cakewalk like the national league teams face for a lot of the year. Boston wears pitching staffs down. Guess we will just wait and see tomorrow.
aplous
Donkey Hater
Just eye test for me. When Hanley was healthy that lineup was the best in baseball for the 2nd half. Kershaw/Greinke best 1/2 combo in the playoffs also.
If by competition you mean regular season competition? Boston got 19 against the pathetic Yanks and Jays, the average O's, and the AAA lineup from Tampa.
I think most people though beating LAD in a 5 or 7 game series would be tough having to beat Kershaw and Greinke.
BJPLAYER
Pretty much a regular
I agree that the 1-2 punch of the lad is impressive and the lineup very good but what I saw in the playoffs was a very dysfunctional dodger team
Poor defense and even poorer decision making by players and manager alike...I had my biggest bet of the season on the dodgers in that series based on your above comments but in retrospect what I have concluded is that the dodgers had one fantastic run in the season and before and after that run they were either a pretty good team or not on any given night
Stl may split in boston and if they do i will probably load up on boston again (just like i did the dodgers lol) because boston could easily win 2/3 in stl..Papi plays ok at first so they only lose napoli (who will probably play one game depending on match ups)
While I am not even on the same planet as betcrimes when it comes to analysis I believe that lackey has performed very well all year and will continue to do so (not a lackey fan but he is having the best year of his overrated career) and peavy is a crapshoot but will be as good or better than stl 4 guy
sox are extremely sound fundamentally and have one the smartest management teams in the game but what will decide this series imo will be their plate discipline and their play hard on every single play mentality that they have displayed all year
sox in 6
Poor defense and even poorer decision making by players and manager alike...I had my biggest bet of the season on the dodgers in that series based on your above comments but in retrospect what I have concluded is that the dodgers had one fantastic run in the season and before and after that run they were either a pretty good team or not on any given night
Stl may split in boston and if they do i will probably load up on boston again (just like i did the dodgers lol) because boston could easily win 2/3 in stl..Papi plays ok at first so they only lose napoli (who will probably play one game depending on match ups)
While I am not even on the same planet as betcrimes when it comes to analysis I believe that lackey has performed very well all year and will continue to do so (not a lackey fan but he is having the best year of his overrated career) and peavy is a crapshoot but will be as good or better than stl 4 guy
sox are extremely sound fundamentally and have one the smartest management teams in the game but what will decide this series imo will be their plate discipline and their play hard on every single play mentality that they have displayed all year
sox in 6
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
yup, i dont give a shit about the regular season stats and the effect that puig had on the teams success , the dodgers were no where close to the redsox when it comes to comradery/cohesiveness or whatever you want to call it
st louis might beat the sox but its not because they defeated a tougher dodger team already
st louis might beat the sox but its not because they defeated a tougher dodger team already
jdoggoakley
Pretty much a regular
Carpenter, Beltran, Holiday, Molina > Ellsbury, Victorino, Pedroia, Papi
As I said earlier, I think Yadi is the key to this series for the Cards. Having a solid backstop to call the game, manage the pitchers and being productive offensively is a just a huge bonus. He should dominate the game over Salty or Ross and I think that could be the difference.
As I said earlier, I think Yadi is the key to this series for the Cards. Having a solid backstop to call the game, manage the pitchers and being productive offensively is a just a huge bonus. He should dominate the game over Salty or Ross and I think that could be the difference.
Retburj13
SpongeBob Squarecapper
i have a future on sox winning series i got prior to playoffs
i will buy some back on cards to guarantee profit
i'm a homer so i want Sox to win BUT Cards have tons of power arms. We beat up on the Detriot pen, dont think that will happen here.
lots on intangibles but the 2 best teams in MLB are meeting so thats all you can hope for
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
If by competition you mean regular season competition? Boston got 19 against the pathetic Yanks and Jays, the average O's, and the AAA lineup from Tampa.
The 4th placed team in the AL East finished 8 games above .500. The next best 4th placed team in the league finished 10 games below .500.
Of those top 4 teams in the AL East, only 1 had a losing record against AL Central teams, AL West teams, & NL teams, when it came to considering non-divisonal games (that was NYY vs. the NL, at 9-11). The meaning of this stat being that if a division is full of shit competition (as your quoted appraisal seems to make out), then you excise the imbalanced schedule fixtures and look at how they did outside of their division (where presumably stronger competition resides, otherwise all you're left with is shit competition league wide, and calling a particular division's make-up shit has no meaning).
While the NL Central's 4th place team sucked, it had the best 3rd place finisher record. (Fitting then that these are the 2 divisions which supplied each winning WC team - TBY, PIT - to complete the the DS roster of the playoffs.) But here's the rub. The AL had 9 teams finish above .500, the NL only 6. So the NL Central teams not only had 1 less capable divisional opponent to beat up on (via the imbalanced schedule) than did AL East teams, to pad their records to engineer that 3rd best placed record scenario, they also played in the league (NL) with the greater number of poorer teams, to help with that same task. Boston, Tampa, Baltimore & NYY had to play a greater number of tougher non-divisional games inside their own league, to engineer the situation where their 4th placed team finished 8 games above .500.
All this statistically means that the AL East was the toughest div. in baseball. If anyone is going to slate the competition Boston faced to win it, then by default they're slating to an even greater degree every other division's competitiveness (& in consequence, what the Cards had to do to win the NL Central).
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At this point I think it's fair to say now that LA was a 10-week wonder. From June 22nd to Sept. 3rd, they went 53-13 SU. Sept. 4th onwards, 14-20 SU. Looking only at their insanely hot period, one finds that
- Boston was the only team to defeat them in a series (2-1, played in LA)
- The Cards won only 1 of 4 games against them (@STL).
- LA went 5-3 SU (all games in LA) vs. AL East teams, while going 15-3 SU vs. NL Central teams. (Did someone cast aspersions on the strength of the AL East?)
Had that June-Sept. LA team had made the playoffs, then maybe calling them the best team present would have some merit. Instead, the version of the LA team that went 9-15 SU from Sept. 3rd to the end of the reg. season was the one who fronted the playoffs. Bumbling by Atlanta both in the field and from the manager's seat helped them (to X degree) to get to the NLCS; LA's own bumbling managing & a crucial injury (Rameriz) in that series, sees them playing golf today.
The 4th placed team in the AL East finished 8 games above .500. The next best 4th placed team in the league finished 10 games below .500.
Of those top 4 teams in the AL East, only 1 had a losing record against AL Central teams, AL West teams, & NL teams, when it came to considering non-divisonal games (that was NYY vs. the NL, at 9-11). The meaning of this stat being that if a division is full of shit competition (as your quoted appraisal seems to make out), then you excise the imbalanced schedule fixtures and look at how they did outside of their division (where presumably stronger competition resides, otherwise all you're left with is shit competition league wide, and calling a particular division's make-up shit has no meaning).
While the NL Central's 4th place team sucked, it had the best 3rd place finisher record. (Fitting then that these are the 2 divisions which supplied each winning WC team - TBY, PIT - to complete the the DS roster of the playoffs.) But here's the rub. The AL had 9 teams finish above .500, the NL only 6. So the NL Central teams not only had 1 less capable divisional opponent to beat up on (via the imbalanced schedule) than did AL East teams, to pad their records to engineer that 3rd best placed record scenario, they also played in the league (NL) with the greater number of poorer teams, to help with that same task. Boston, Tampa, Baltimore & NYY had to play a greater number of tougher non-divisional games inside their own league, to engineer the situation where their 4th placed team finished 8 games above .500.
All this statistically means that the AL East was the toughest div. in baseball. If anyone is going to slate the competition Boston faced to win it, then by default they're slating to an even greater degree every other division's competitiveness (& in consequence, what the Cards had to do to win the NL Central).
--------
At this point I think it's fair to say now that LA was a 10-week wonder. From June 22nd to Sept. 3rd, they went 53-13 SU. Sept. 4th onwards, 14-20 SU. Looking only at their insanely hot period, one finds that
- Boston was the only team to defeat them in a series (2-1, played in LA)
- The Cards won only 1 of 4 games against them (@STL).
- LA went 5-3 SU (all games in LA) vs. AL East teams, while going 15-3 SU vs. NL Central teams. (Did someone cast aspersions on the strength of the AL East?)
Had that June-Sept. LA team had made the playoffs, then maybe calling them the best team present would have some merit. Instead, the version of the LA team that went 9-15 SU from Sept. 3rd to the end of the reg. season was the one who fronted the playoffs. Bumbling by Atlanta both in the field and from the manager's seat helped them (to X degree) to get to the NLCS; LA's own bumbling managing & a crucial injury (Rameriz) in that series, sees them playing golf today.
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Yanks27Sox9
CTG Partner
regular season doesn't always equate to playoffs. but i hope you guys realize that the Hanley injury was what really slowed the dodgers, and determined the outcome of the series more than any other single factor.
of course, STL didn't mean to break a rib. but they did throw at him/inside intentionally. the cards aren't dumb. they saw who really drove that offense the few stretches he was healthy. the injury was just an added bonus to their plan of attack, as it changed things dramatically.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
You can't fail to add Dumb Mattingly starting Ethier when he wasn't up to it. Cost them in the field as well as at the plate. There's 2 all-but-free top order outs that Boston isn't going to give them. That pitching staff got some help to look good. Fenway is going to be the test to see if they're - esp. their youngsters - for real.
Yanks27Sox9
CTG Partner
there are a lot of factors. hanley was simply the most important.
and BC...i'm not gonna explain the whole ethier situation to you, but you're off base...even though that play did cost them dearly.
tigers pen did blow their series. but this series is pretty damn even (on paper) across the board. we'll see how it plays out.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
i'm not gonna explain the whole ethier situation to you
What do I need to know other than his ankle is screwed? Seems like a pretty important injury re the mechanics of batting and fielding in the out, no?
What do I need to know other than his ankle is screwed? Seems like a pretty important injury re the mechanics of batting and fielding in the out, no?
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Yanks27Sox9
CTG Partner
he risked losing the player, possibly others tied to andre, had he not played him.
injuries in the OF are the only reason the OF situation didn't blow up during the season...after Puig came up. one too many...but someone kept getting hurt, so they never had to address an underlying situation....one in which ethier woulda been the odd man out.
and many felt a less than 100% ethier was the best option, over basically a utility player. and i agree. those are the breaks though. a chance play bit them in the ass. but yeah...from there on, he had no choice but to cover for the player, taking the blame...just like leyland did...or any other good manager would do. take a bullet for a guy...who couldn't even return after that extra inning game.
injuries in the OF are the only reason the OF situation didn't blow up during the season...after Puig came up. one too many...but someone kept getting hurt, so they never had to address an underlying situation....one in which ethier woulda been the odd man out.
and many felt a less than 100% ethier was the best option, over basically a utility player. and i agree. those are the breaks though. a chance play bit them in the ass. but yeah...from there on, he had no choice but to cover for the player, taking the blame...just like leyland did...or any other good manager would do. take a bullet for a guy...who couldn't even return after that extra inning game.
Yanks27Sox9
CTG Partner
any legit baseball person, considering the full picture, woulda done the exact same thing. and more often than not, it woulda worked out. sometimes though, the ball just has a way of finding a weak spot...
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
he risked losing the player, possibly others tied to andre, had he not played him.
OK, that's a terrible sign. That means he wasn't in charge of that team. That means those players (concerned) didn't respect him to X degree (in his role, that directly means they didn't respect his decisions/what he saw fit re the team's needs), and by extension they didn't respect to X degree the front office (way to go team loyalty).
The only question now is, how the hell did such dysfunction go 53-13 over 10 weeks? You say injuries keep things coming to a head, but even so. These dynamics had to affect them at some point. File this under things I wish I had known beforehand.
OK, that's a terrible sign. That means he wasn't in charge of that team. That means those players (concerned) didn't respect him to X degree (in his role, that directly means they didn't respect his decisions/what he saw fit re the team's needs), and by extension they didn't respect to X degree the front office (way to go team loyalty).
The only question now is, how the hell did such dysfunction go 53-13 over 10 weeks? You say injuries keep things coming to a head, but even so. These dynamics had to affect them at some point. File this under things I wish I had known beforehand.
aplous
Donkey Hater
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77890406/
AJ Ellis write up in LA Times ^^^
Lester v Wainwright
Lackey v Wacha
Kelly v Buchholz/Peavy
Lynn v Buchholz/Peavy
AJ Ellis write up in LA Times ^^^
Lester v Wainwright
Lackey v Wacha
Kelly v Buchholz/Peavy
Lynn v Buchholz/Peavy
Yanks27Sox9
CTG Partner
yes and no. mattingly was in charge of the team on the field...ned was in charge of the team too as the gm.
not a terrible sign. i'm guessing about others, only cuz ballplayers (like anyone else) have someone (or a group) they're closest with...but definitely was a risk with andre.
the dodger players have been totally behind mattingly from everything i've seen/heard.
it's more complex/intricate than i'm getting into though. back when they were in last place, stan gave mattingly an ultimatum (directly, w/out ned) to turn the ship around...which he did.
some of the problems that mattingly's dealing with are a result of ned's decisions, btw. like the league contract. but don had to make a choice early to go to jansen. ned and don also made some other key bullpen moves at the same time, fwiw. wasn't just at closer.
jumping around...but dodgers threw $ at the wall. they didn't expect puig to come so quickly, but he was fantastic in spring training. so when an OFer got hurt, it was an easy call up...and no one was hotter.
when it looked like kemp was coming back to stay, they couldn't send the hottest bat down...so they looked to deal andre. they couldn't. turned out ok only because kemp was injured again.
(tangent...you know kemp/puig are locked in place...so whoever can be moved between crawford and andre will be moved this offseason. they obviously prefer andre to go...but both contracts will make it difficult to pull off either one. w/out a trade though, this will eventually come to a head...cuz sooner or later, all 4 will be healthy and wanting playing time. contracts are all too big to be just a "4th" outfielder, since no DH in NL.)
anyhow, they avoided any problems because they never really came up against it...so there was no dysfunction...even with a less than stellar GM. the proof that they believe in mattingly, and that he was truly in charge, is that there were no issues...not in the OF for the brief time all 4 were playing, or regarding the bullpen overhaul. nothing negative in public...just a huge winning streak.
they went on a historic run as a team with mattingly at the helm. it was the players doing it, as it always is...but mattingly didn't get in the way, as some others would've...and he deserves credit for his leadership under fire...at least for whatever a manager is worth.
like i said, it's much more intricate than how i'm laying it out...but it's not worth writing a novel. short of a trade though, it will come to a head eventually.
and yeah, the underlying dynamics...much which can only be inferred, since it wasn't talked about (at least publicly)...had to have an effect on at least andre, possibly others. who knows.
but what don did know was that because kemp wasn't there, he needed (the team needed) andre at his best (whatever that was) in the playoffs...so he did what any other manager in a similar situation would've done...acquiesce to the name/contract and rolled the dice.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
I understand there being player groupings, since cliques are inevitable in any large group situation. But to my mind when any clique transforms into a 'power bloc' that gets to dictate certain moves a manager and/or organisation can and/or cannot pull, then the consequences that stem from that on a host of fronts are just entirely negative. For starters, Mattingly may still like those players, but he in turn must lose some respect/connection to them for their not respecting him & his decision making (which is presumably for the good of the team, therefore the good of every player involved in that clique) enough to pull rank like that. When a clique desire comes before the team good... Anyway, thanks for taking the time to expand on all that stuff.
C-MAN
Pretty much a regular
Taking a simple approach and playing home team in every game. Both teams are 30+ games over .500 at home. In playoffs, a combined 9-2 home and 5-6 away. Both teams have additional advantages playing in their home park this series (Bosox pitchers have to hit, what happens to Ortiz in StL, StL having to play an injured player at DH and pitchers not getting auto outs in Bosox, etc). I don't think any game will see a large fave except maybe Bos in game 2 if they lose game 1 so 3-2 or 4-2 should make a decent profit.
Some interesting info from SI's experts and their picks...
Tom Verducci
The Cardinals are formidable with Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha rested and ready for four of the first six games. But the Tigers had better starting pitching than Boston in the ALCS and still went home. Boston went 3-0 when it faced Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer because its grinding offense forces mistakes. The series will be decided in the roughly 27-pitch gap between the many pitches the Red Sox have forced per nine innings in the postseason (157.1) and the few pitches the aggressive Cardinals have thrown in the postseason (130.6).
The slight edge goes to Boston because the Sox can better dictate terms at home in their small ballpark. AL teams with homefield advantage are 14-3 in the World Series over the past 30 years while winning 65 percent of the games (59-32). Home teams are 9-0 in World Series Game 7s since 1980. Keep in mind, however, this particular pick is unprecedented. The Red Sox have played five decisive World Series Game 7s and lost them all.
Red Sox in 7
Albert Chen
Yadi vs. Boston's burners. The Red Sox mashers vs. the rookie Redbird relievers. Allen Craig vs. his foot. The Cardinal Way vs. The Basebeard Way. So many compelling storylines in this year's World Series, a dream matchup of baseball's two best teams (at last). Both the Red Sox and Cardinals are evenly matched and both took similar roads to the World Series, defeating likely Cy Young winners (Max Scherzer and Clayton Kershaw) and silencing lineups with hobbled superstars (Miguel Cabrera and Hanley Ramirez). In the end, I like Wainwright and Wacha at the top of St. Louis' rotation more than Lester and Buchholz atop Boston's, and as brilliant as the Red Sox' bullpen has been of late, the Cardinals' is deeper.
Cardinals in 6
Ben Reiter
These are, by far, the two most relentless teams in baseball, and were also quite comfortably the best offenses in their respective leagues. While the Red Sox outscored the Cardinals by 70 runs during the regular season, the impending return of Allen Craig will mean that St. Louis will be able to match Boston's AL-style offensive depth. The lineups look to be a wash. The edge, and it's a slight one, might come in the rotations, as the Cardinals appear to have the two best starters in the series, Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha. Of course, you could have said something similar about the Tigers -- but St. Louis' young, hard throwing relievers should continue to buttress the starters in a way Detroit's bullpen did not.
Cardinals in 7
Joe Lemire
Boston and St. Louis have been baseball's best and deepest teams all season, leading their leagues in wins and run differential. They are a mostly evenly matched pair, but the Cardinals have slightly higher-end starting pitching in Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha leading the way. Also, while both lineups are relentless on-base machines, the Cardinals are better at putting the ball in play and succeeding in situational hitting, skills that are correlated with postseason success.
Cardinals in 7
Jay Jaffe
The Cardinals have gotten great work out of their rotation thus far this postseason, with a collective 2.57 ERA compared to Boston's 4.29. With Adam Wainwright in Games 1 and 5 (if necessary), and Michael Wacha in Games 2 and 6 (if necessary), they're lined up to have the better starter in at least four of the first six games of the Series. Even though its all-righty tilt isn't a great match for a Red Sox team with such a lefty-heavy presence in their lineup, the Tigers' rotation showed that Boston could be kept at bay -- and St. Louis has a bullpen better suited for finishing the job.
Cardinals in 6
Cliff Corcoran
Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha, the two best starters on either team heading into this series, will start four times in the first six games. When the other two Cardinals starters and Wainwright take the mound in St. Louis, Boston will have to sit either David Ortiz or Mike Napoli. Allen Craig will start at designated hitter, saving St. Louis from starting Shane Robinson in that spot, and the Redbirds' bullpen will succeed where the Tigers' failed, slamming the door on the Red Sox. All of which means the Cardinals will soon be celebrating their second championship in three years.
Cardinals in 6
Joe Sheehan
There's not much to differentiate these two teams, but the Red Sox' strategy of working the starters out of the game should be less successful because of the Cardinals' deep pool of power relievers. The Sox will likely lose Mike Napoli for the three games in St. Louis, as they slide David Ortiz to first base. That's a big blow to their offense. St. Louis had the better contact rate in the regular season, a leading indicator that is 4-2 this year and now 26-8 the last five postseasons. Small edges. You may as well flip a coin. That's how close this is.
Cardinals in 6
Tom Verducci
The Cardinals are formidable with Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha rested and ready for four of the first six games. But the Tigers had better starting pitching than Boston in the ALCS and still went home. Boston went 3-0 when it faced Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer because its grinding offense forces mistakes. The series will be decided in the roughly 27-pitch gap between the many pitches the Red Sox have forced per nine innings in the postseason (157.1) and the few pitches the aggressive Cardinals have thrown in the postseason (130.6).
The slight edge goes to Boston because the Sox can better dictate terms at home in their small ballpark. AL teams with homefield advantage are 14-3 in the World Series over the past 30 years while winning 65 percent of the games (59-32). Home teams are 9-0 in World Series Game 7s since 1980. Keep in mind, however, this particular pick is unprecedented. The Red Sox have played five decisive World Series Game 7s and lost them all.
Red Sox in 7
Albert Chen
Yadi vs. Boston's burners. The Red Sox mashers vs. the rookie Redbird relievers. Allen Craig vs. his foot. The Cardinal Way vs. The Basebeard Way. So many compelling storylines in this year's World Series, a dream matchup of baseball's two best teams (at last). Both the Red Sox and Cardinals are evenly matched and both took similar roads to the World Series, defeating likely Cy Young winners (Max Scherzer and Clayton Kershaw) and silencing lineups with hobbled superstars (Miguel Cabrera and Hanley Ramirez). In the end, I like Wainwright and Wacha at the top of St. Louis' rotation more than Lester and Buchholz atop Boston's, and as brilliant as the Red Sox' bullpen has been of late, the Cardinals' is deeper.
Cardinals in 6
Ben Reiter
These are, by far, the two most relentless teams in baseball, and were also quite comfortably the best offenses in their respective leagues. While the Red Sox outscored the Cardinals by 70 runs during the regular season, the impending return of Allen Craig will mean that St. Louis will be able to match Boston's AL-style offensive depth. The lineups look to be a wash. The edge, and it's a slight one, might come in the rotations, as the Cardinals appear to have the two best starters in the series, Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha. Of course, you could have said something similar about the Tigers -- but St. Louis' young, hard throwing relievers should continue to buttress the starters in a way Detroit's bullpen did not.
Cardinals in 7
Joe Lemire
Boston and St. Louis have been baseball's best and deepest teams all season, leading their leagues in wins and run differential. They are a mostly evenly matched pair, but the Cardinals have slightly higher-end starting pitching in Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha leading the way. Also, while both lineups are relentless on-base machines, the Cardinals are better at putting the ball in play and succeeding in situational hitting, skills that are correlated with postseason success.
Cardinals in 7
Jay Jaffe
The Cardinals have gotten great work out of their rotation thus far this postseason, with a collective 2.57 ERA compared to Boston's 4.29. With Adam Wainwright in Games 1 and 5 (if necessary), and Michael Wacha in Games 2 and 6 (if necessary), they're lined up to have the better starter in at least four of the first six games of the Series. Even though its all-righty tilt isn't a great match for a Red Sox team with such a lefty-heavy presence in their lineup, the Tigers' rotation showed that Boston could be kept at bay -- and St. Louis has a bullpen better suited for finishing the job.
Cardinals in 6
Cliff Corcoran
Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha, the two best starters on either team heading into this series, will start four times in the first six games. When the other two Cardinals starters and Wainwright take the mound in St. Louis, Boston will have to sit either David Ortiz or Mike Napoli. Allen Craig will start at designated hitter, saving St. Louis from starting Shane Robinson in that spot, and the Redbirds' bullpen will succeed where the Tigers' failed, slamming the door on the Red Sox. All of which means the Cardinals will soon be celebrating their second championship in three years.
Cardinals in 6
Joe Sheehan
There's not much to differentiate these two teams, but the Red Sox' strategy of working the starters out of the game should be less successful because of the Cardinals' deep pool of power relievers. The Sox will likely lose Mike Napoli for the three games in St. Louis, as they slide David Ortiz to first base. That's a big blow to their offense. St. Louis had the better contact rate in the regular season, a leading indicator that is 4-2 this year and now 26-8 the last five postseasons. Small edges. You may as well flip a coin. That's how close this is.
Cardinals in 6
GWarner27
Meatballin' in Celtics Stadium
The time before that had to be Boston cuz they got swept in 04?
GWarner27
Meatballin' in Celtics Stadium
Same feeling here and I generally don't like that, but I don't think this reflects much as this sports puts less weight on predictions than any other
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