jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Right.
SEC Championship
- Thread starter crawdads
- Start date
Right.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
I don’t disagree, I’m just going by what’s already been established as far as “power 5.” I agree with VK, set up 8 conferences and then each champion makes the playoffs. There is absolutely no subjectivity left, which is how it should be.
I never said everything is great. In my opinion there is no perfect system for college football. There will always be controversy no matter how many teams you take or what system you use to determine those teams.
What I am saying is that the tin foil hat SEC conspiracy has gone way over board and is laughable at this point.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
There are plenty of solutions. Again, for one if your have 5 “power” conferences you cannot possibly have a 4 team playoff, it needs to be at least 5 teams...based on logic.
And also again, you can set up 8 conferences ans have the champion from each compete in the playoffs.
Neither of those scenarios would have any controversy. Outside of possibly the ONE at-large team that would need to be determined. Either way, both of those are leaps and bounds better than the subjective, political bullshit we have now.
M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
LSU should not have to beat Bama twice, and Georgia should not have to beat LSU twice. To me, it's less about fairness to UU or OU/BU than about fairness to the SEC champ.
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
There's going to be some bitching no matter.
The UIL expands the Texas high school playoffs to district champs and runnerups. Then we take 4 teams out of district. Then we have two divisions.
Pretty soon 2-9 teams are getting in on a coin flip and occasionally beating an 11-0 champ somewhere.
The UIL expands the Texas high school playoffs to district champs and runnerups. Then we take 4 teams out of district. Then we have two divisions.
Pretty soon 2-9 teams are getting in on a coin flip and occasionally beating an 11-0 champ somewhere.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
I also think it deserves to be mentioned that literally every other sport has figured out a way to not have a controversial determination as to who makes the playoffs and how a “champion” is determined. There is one other exception to this...NCAA basketball. Hmmm, is anyone else sensing a pattern with the completely full of shit NCAA yet?
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
8 conferences, each champion makes the playoffs. What would possibly be the bitching at that?
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Again, are we trying to determine a “champion” of college football, or are we trying to figure out the “best team?” In no scenario should we be trying to crown the “best team,” that’s just fucking idiotic.
M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
The more-precise term is "question-begging", i.e, using the answer to your question as a premise for the answer. You can't use rankings as a foundation for those same rankings. There are no "top 25" teams until you have ranked teams from 1-25, at which point you will have already determined the top 4.
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M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
No, we can't do that.
Here‘s some pushback for jedi: ironically for jedi’s point, the committee uses more results on the field than he does. As mentioned, any team can beat any other team on a given day. It doesn‘t seem fair to reward the conf champ absolutely because that‘s just one game and it ignores a whole season of accomplishments (or failures).
There has to be some sort of objective basis that accounts for more than just the conference championship
There has to be some sort of objective basis that accounts for more than just the conference championship
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
I know right? That would be far too logical and make too much sense. Instead, they’d rather have this charade play out year after year. It’s as embarrassing as it gets.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Umm, that’s how sports work. Every other fucking sport works that way. Yes, any team can beat any other in any given game...that’s what makes sports great. Outside of CFB and CBB that is.
M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
No, it's literally impossible. You cannot determine the four "best" teams objectively by what happens on the field.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Right. Again, who said the champion is necessarily the “best” team? The champion is the team who wins it on the field in the game that matter in determining the champion.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Why doesn’t the committee poll the NFL teams to determine how many players will be drafted from each team, and then use that to determine the “best” 4 teams? The teams getting the most players drafted would be the “best” teams would they not?
They don’t do that because it’s fucking stupid. Just as fucking stupid as the system they’ve currently constructed.
They don’t do that because it’s fucking stupid. Just as fucking stupid as the system they’ve currently constructed.
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
Ags played Clemson closer than Bama last year.
We should have been number two!!!!!
It seems really counterintuitive to make a distinction between champion and best team. Like the whole point of being champion is that it’s supposed to prove that you‘re the best, otherwise you‘re just celebrating a fluke, which seems dumb. You seem to misunderstand the whole nature of competition which is to prove that you‘re better than your opponent
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Huh? How am I misunderstanding this? The committee is saying they are determining the “best teams” using subjectivity. My way ONLY uses the results on the field, which is actually the only way to prove you’re better than your opponent. How are you confused?
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Flukes happen, that’s what makes sports great. Again, CFB (and CBB) are the only sports in the world that use subjectivity and not simply the results on the field of play.
Yes, a fluke team may end up being the champion. So what? If we are trying to crown a champion that doesn’t matter at all. If we’re trying to crown the “best team” then it does matter.
You seem to think subjectivity is baseless but they are looking at and weighing results on the field. The only question is whether to look at one game or one season and it seems obvious that looking at a whole season avoids things like luck, bad calls, etc. that could allow eg Virginia to beat Clemson. My way seems more „objective“ than yours. If we distrust a committee so much then let‘s perfect a computational method
Team A could beat Team B in the natty and they could replay the game 10 times with the same result and that still wouldn‘t show who‘s best. There is no best team nor could there ever truly be that we know of.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
There is a perfect method that already exists. See every other sport on the planet.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Who cares who the “best” team is, that’s what I’m not getting. The champion isn’t always the best team...that’s how sports work.
You sound like a millennial who’s never played sports with your argument.
For starters there’s more than 8 conferences so your perfect plan has a controversy from the jump.
The further you move away from numbers 1-2 the more teams have a legitimate argument to be included. This was always going to be the case. Proponents of the 4 team playoff idea said “Four will be enough, once you get to 5 or 6 you probably don’t have an argument to be number 1 anyway” while failing to realize the argument isn’t about being number 1, it’s an argument to be included in one of the final spots. And here we are, arguing about who would get the 4th spot out of three or four teams in varying scenarios. Multiply those numbers if you move it to 8 teams, the story will be the same.
What we have now is the result of trying to keep the things unique to college football important while implementing a system to satisfy the blood thirst for a “true” champion. You could put together a good system for the game, but not in the current structure. The conference layout, importance of the regular season, importance of conference championships, and the bowls can not all survive what it would take to put a better system in place.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Yes, the premise is to set up the 8 conferences. I assumed that was obvious as there are currently more than 8, and the fact I said to “set up” 8 conferences.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Pretty sure an 8 seed has won in the NHL as well. Pretty sure a WC has won in MLB, and I’m pretty sure the champion in the NBA hasn’t been the “best” team a time or 12.
Maybe strengthen your argument so that you don‘t have to rely on your capricious understanding of how sports „work“ and on ad hominem attacks?
If jedi‘s way is going to work then for starters we need to revise the whole concept of divisions. A team from a weaker division can plod its way to a conf championship game and fluke its way to a win in the conf champ game. Such a scenario totally threatens to undermine the integrity of a playoff
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
So the objective is either to make the champion the best team or to set the parameters for entry to the tournament. Not sure the two can coexist.
Seems beyond dumb to determine by a game who should make the playoff (except in some sort of potential tiebreaker scenario). In other sports you have season-long results determine seeding for the playoffs that way also the regular season means something
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
So we go to 8 game seasons and start the 64 team tournament.
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
Not sure they can.
Pressure up the middle cures all ills in the backcourt.
M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
Yes, there's a downside: The number of home games decreases. That's why Georgia won't play Clemson. They don't care about a potential loss. They want to play 7 at home plus one neutral every year. And what would be "awesome" about OOC matchups in a scenario in which you are expressly declaring them to be meaningless?
Yea if conf champ games = ticket to the playoffs then why even play ooc games? Use them as preseason!
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
It would be awesome to see a football game between two high talent teams that wouldn’t be normally play because they’re afraid a loss by would exclude them from playoff consideration. Wouldn’t it?
Why would they even be motivated to play their best players? You think highly talented teams would risk injuring them for a game with no playoff ramifications?
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
Like when we had the AP poll and the bowl system?
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
But that IS the argument. Every other sport on the planet does it that way, and it clearly works. What else needs to be said?
You seem more worried about feelings than facts. Games are decided on the field. If you lose and don’t win your conference championship, you’re out. Anyone and everyone who has played sports at an even slightly high level would agree with that.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
No, not at all. I’m not even sure what this means really. We still have the AP poll and we still have the bowl system. The bowl games are neutral sites, wouldn’t it be great to see tOSU and Bama play a home and home just for the fuck of it? Who doesn’t want to see that?
M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
We had plenty of that before the interest in a national champion turned into an obsession:
Some non-con schedules from 1974 when the ACC and SEC played 6 conference games:
Clemson:
Georgia, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, Texas A&M, South Carolina
Alabama:
Florida State, Miami, TCU, Southern Miss, Maryland
Nebraska:
Oregon, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota
LSU:
Colorado, Texas A&M, Rice, Tulane, Utah
Texas:
Oklahoma, Washington, Boston College, Wyoming
NC State:
Syracuse, East Carolina, South Carolina, Penn State, Arizona State
Missouri:
Ole Miss, Baylor, Arizona State, Wisconsin
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
In the dark ages , it seemed that we had more top level games than we do now. For the reasons discussed, not wanting to lose the slot in the playoff.
You needed a big win to get an all subjective winner .
No your argument is just to repeat a few basic points while sprinkling in personal insults and appellations to some mythical definition of how sports work. Like I don‘t see why anybody could possibly give a fuck about what you think people who played sports at a high level should think.
Thinking that only conference champions deserve a playoff spot is so simplistic because it ignoreso many factors that explain why some teams are more deserving than others: strength of schedule, notable wins and losses in other words an entire resume constructed by a season consisting in „games being decided on the field.“
Like to think Virginia would deserve in over Clemson is literally insane given resume— a team that lost to Miami and Louisville already proved that it‘s not deserving of a playoff spot. Just because it beat enough crap coastal teams doesn‘t make it more deserving of a playoff spot.
You can‘t talk about a game being decided on the field and then ignore so many other games.
M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
We had to destroy the village to save it! Thank you Commissioner LeMay!
M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
No, because there isn't a problem.
