***San Diego Chargers @ New England Patriots Discussion***

Jayhawk Nation said:
Not saying it’s right or wrong, or that patriots are any better. But I’ve seen it before (2010 Chiefs come to mind) where a team has a soft schedule and doesn’t really face or beat elite teams, then the first really good team they play they get stomped. Again, not saying that’s the case here, just that I haven’t anointed the Chargers as the AFC champs like many seem to have done already.
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2010 Chiefs were absolutely terrible, we both know this.

The Chargers have won at: Pitt, KC, Seattle and Baltimore. They also played the Rams, Chiefs and Ravens another time. I'd say they have been tested. I am of the opinion that man for man, they are possess the most talent on both sides of the ball in the NFL. Will it translate this weekend I don't know.
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Damn, why wouldn't he take away LA's best receiver
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Belichick has so many tricks up his sleeve (whether they work or not is a different story) it's not worth trying to anticipate what he might do to benefit a wager. Can really only base it on what you've seen. Gilmore covering someone doesn't necessarily mean an under for that receiver, he's been torched plenty. He also gets his share of PI flags from playing aggressively. I don't know if a WR gets interfered with if those count towards his yards. If so I would not hesitate at all to play an over prop against Gilmore. Again, good luck figuring out who he will be covering.
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Damn, why wouldn't he take away LA's best receiver
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Allen is definitely the favorite receiver of rivers but Williams has the bigger upside.

Williams is the best 1 on 1 receiver aka Justin Ross style- he wins jump balls too easily.

But Allen is the smarter better route runner for sure.

Overall Williams is younger and has a higher capping command centre rating than Keenan Allen
 
Capaholic said:
2010 Chiefs were absolutely terrible, we both know this.

The Chargers have won at: Pitt, KC, Seattle and Baltimore. They also played the Rams, Chiefs and Ravens another time. I'd say they have been tested. I am of the opinion that man for man, they are possess the most talent on both sides of the ball in the NFL. Will it translate this weekend I don't know.
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This Chargers team is a little different than the 2010 Chiefs in that they have actually played elite teams; but I am still not convinced. No doubt they have talent, but this same "talented" team struggled to beat a Dalton and Green-less Bengals, lost to the Broncos at home, and luck-boxed a win against the 49ers. All teams struggle at times, for sure, and again I am not making the argument that they aren't a good team. But I just don't get why everyone respects them as some elite level team so much.

The whole point of my argument was in response to the teaser plays where in I would rather have the Patriots at +9 than the Chargers at +17
 
Capaholic said:
2010 Chiefs were absolutely terrible, we both know this.

The Chargers have won at: Pitt, KC, Seattle and Baltimore. They also played the Rams, Chiefs and Ravens another time. I'd say they have been tested. I am of the opinion that man for man, they are possess the most talent on both sides of the ball in the NFL. Will it translate this weekend I don't know.
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I kind of understand what you are saying.

Chargers have some talent but I think it’s like a sports car that looks nice but drives a little rough.

Who are the chargers stars?

Bosa I woukd agree
Ingram I’ll give you
Derwin janes young guy playing well
Heyward is decent.

Offense stars?

Gordon is a regular season star. Playoff glass body
Rivers - highly overrated. Good stats no rings
Allen- sure good receiver
Williams- a future star in the making.


So basically chargers are a team with 5-6 sexy young players who are good.

But the reality is Rivers is overrated. It says a lot when a guy has been in the league for 15 years and never won anything. He had good teams. He was in the Playoffs but couldn’t do it.
 
Chargers struggled to barely beat lamar.

They are going to face the smartest coaches in the league.
They are facing the Goat at home.

They are facing Josh McDaniels.

They are starting this game down 7-0 because Edelman will take a handoff and throw an easy td to Hogan or Dorset.

Pats win in the film room and Rivers to me is very very very beatable. He has been beaten for 15 years straight in the playoffs. I expect him to lose again. He’s just not that good of a qb.
 
Really unfortunate for Pats that weather won’t be a factor

I think the travel aspect is overplayed , if it was really a concern they would have stayed back East

For the last 15 or so years you would have had to play nearly perfect mistake free football to beat Pats at home in January, feels different this year

Rivers does have to show up and play better he has been a bit of a dud ever since the Chiefs game
 
Doubt either team eclipses 20 mates, Chargers defense should be good enough to sack up in Foxboro against depleted hobbled offense, Pats at home should limit Rivers and co, running and TEs, some Edelman but should be a bit negated by defense being able to play forward. Clock should moooove

And Brady smart enough to get Bosa to jump a couple times on key 3rd and 3 types, can see that coming from a mile away
 
braves said:
Yeah as compared to Brady who is a cheetah back in the pocket
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Brady is slowing down but he has excellent pocket movement. He can move his feet. Bree’s same thing he can shuffle his feet in the pocket.

Rivers cannot do that. He isn’t good in the pocket. He takes so many sacks of the deep ball is taken away
Has rivers ever thrown a wide receiver screen or hitch route?

I know qbs. The command centre regularly reviews qbs games.

Rivers does not throw to the outside unless he’s throwing deep or a fade route.
Chargers do not run out routes from the slot.
Chargers do not run tight end seams

Rivers when throwing short will either dump a pass off to a running back or look short inside the hashes.

Rivers is an inside hashmark qb. He doesent have enough explosive hip movement to hit the outside passes because his hips are not loose. He uses the middle of the field for short passes.


If I know this much about rivers what do you guys think Bill is doing right now.
He is matching his guys up and devising strategies that his D line will use to disrupt rivers. He will pack the middle of the defense making Rivers lack of hip explosion come into play as he cannot pivot and hit the outside throws.
 
Zeke said:
Belichick has so many tricks up his sleeve (whether they work or not is a different story) it's not worth trying to anticipate what he might do to benefit a wager. Can really only base it on what you've seen. Gilmore covering someone doesn't necessarily mean an under for that receiver, he's been torched plenty. He also gets his share of PI flags from playing aggressively. I don't know if a WR gets interfered with if those count towards his yards. If so I would not hesitate at all to play an over prop against Gilmore. Again, good luck figuring out who he will be covering.
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Will stay away. Thx
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Will stay away. Thx
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Gilmore will be on Williams imo.

Allen plays from the slot more than often.

Gilmore isn’t a slot corner. He stays outside.

Bills philosophy is to eliminate the other teams biggest weapon. In this case it’s Williams because he’s a man child. A megatron reincarnation.

I assume he’s the one taken away and then bill will pack the middle defense smto stop Allen and rivers inside throws. He can’t just whip it outside because of weak hips. This is why rivers is easy to defend. No ability to hit outside passes without really winding up which the defense can spot.
 
Gilmore isn't shutting either of them down the whole game. Ravens were the defensive test, Patriots aren't on that level. Rivers threw for just 180 yds last week and they still put up 23, have to think they get to 24+.
 
Vircavs...If you are looking for a passing prop the props to play are on the RB's....both teams use the backs as receivers a lot...Pats #1 and LA #2....Gordon had 50 catches for 490 and Ekeler had 39 for 404....for the most yards by RB's in the league,1052,Pats were second with 999....Burkhead and White will get the heavy workload for the Pats as White was used heavily all year. On top of their gaudy passing stats on offense to their backs both teams rank near the bottom of the league LA allowing 973 yards and the Pats 783 to backs...Bellycheck seems to use the unknown guy in these big games so Burkhead may be a good prop
 
Lexington 125 said:
Gilmore isn't shutting either of them down the whole game. Ravens were the defensive test, Patriots aren't on that level. Rivers threw for just 180 yds last week and they still put up 23, have to think they get to 24+.
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Again tho, huge product of inept offense from the other side. If SD Superchargers score 24 they should win
 
Yeah, I can see that if it turns into a field position game which it may with a lot of runs and plunk and dunk. I can see LA being held to less than 24 though with that weak ass zone that Bellycheck loves that gives up yards till the opposing team gets into Pats territory and the field tightens up and LA comes away with FG's and Pats adjust at half and give nothing up in the second. Pipe dream probably. It's going to take a great game plan with execution by the Pats and mistakes by LA for the Pats to win this game. LA is just too good at everything, they really aren't great at any one thing but they seem to be very good at everything. One area where they can be exposed is running right up the middle and Michele is pretty elusive in that area of the game but they will close that up pretty quick after we burn them a couple times I believe. We gotta get lucky or maybe Sammy is right and it's predestined. Ha ha Love to see him in the command centre walking around shirtless screaming at the TV with a bud bottle in his hand and a butt hanging out of his mouth
 
Lexington 125 said:
Gilmore isn't shutting either of them down the whole game. Ravens were the defensive test, Patriots aren't on that level. Rivers threw for just 180 yds last week and they still put up 23, have to think they get to 24+.
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I’ll give you an alternative angle bro.

Respectfully chargers did score 23 on a good defense. No doubts.

But lamar didn’t posses the ball at all so chargers had the ball the entire game.

Vs pats Brady will out possess the chargers thus giving chargers much less time and possessions.

You nailed it on the head my friend. You found the actual relevant hidden capping angle!

If chargers had the ball the entire game and only scored 23 points how good are they?
I find that extremely unimpressive.
 
BJPLAYER said:
Vircavs...If you are looking for a passing prop the props to play are on the RB's....both teams use the backs as receivers a lot...Pats #1 and LA #2....Gordon had 50 catches for 490 and Ekeler had 39 for 404....for the most yards by RB's in the league,1052,Pats were second with 999....Burkhead and White will get the heavy workload for the Pats as White was used heavily all year. On top of their gaudy passing stats on offense to their backs both teams rank near the bottom of the league LA allowing 973 yards and the Pats 783 to backs...Bellycheck seems to use the unknown guy in these big games so Burkhead may be a good prop
Click to expand...

James white is the best receiver in the game these days. He happens to play running back but he catches everything and is very clutch. What other player catches 15 passes in a super bowl?

Melvin Gordon rush props under-
Early screen shot. Gordon running into the locker room multiple times.
Gordon isn’t built for longevity. He’s soft. Glass body.
I would go under on his props. He isn’t very championship caliber
 
For the first time since 2000 I'm betting against the NE offense first

Next, against the SD offense

But make no mistake, I'm ON the SD defense first and ON the NE defense second....before those offensive fades
 
BJPLAYER said:
Vircavs...If you are looking for a passing prop the props to play are on the RB's....both teams use the backs as receivers a lot...Pats #1 and LA #2....Gordon had 50 catches for 490 and Ekeler had 39 for 404....for the most yards by RB's in the league,1052,Pats were second with 999....Burkhead and White will get the heavy workload for the Pats as White was used heavily all year. On top of their gaudy passing stats on offense to their backs both teams rank near the bottom of the league LA allowing 973 yards and the Pats 783 to backs...Bellycheck seems to use the unknown guy in these big games so Burkhead may be a good prop
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Where did you find the RB receiving yards stat? I'm asking because I see the NYG had 1,132 yards from their backs on receptions this year, which would be more than the Chargers and the Pats. I was unable to find a site where they showed it by team though, had to find each individual RB and add them up.
 
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Sammy Meatballs said:
I kind of understand what you are saying.

Chargers have some talent but I think it’s like a sports car that looks nice but drives a little rough.

Who are the chargers stars?

Bosa I woukd agree
Ingram I’ll give you
Derwin janes young guy playing well
Heyward is decent.

Offense stars?

Gordon is a regular season star. Playoff glass body
Rivers - highly overrated. Good stats no rings
Allen- sure good receiver
Williams- a future star in the making.


So basically chargers are a team with 5-6 sexy young players who are good.

But the reality is Rivers is overrated. It says a lot when a guy has been in the league for 15 years and never won anything. He had good teams. He was in the Playoffs but couldn’t do it.
Click to expand...

Since Brees arrived in New Orleans, Rivers has been to the playoffs as many times and won a playoff game in every appearance. His only AFC title appearance was on a torn ACL when his team lost a 4th quarter game against the 18-0 Pats.
 
jedi ninja said:
Where did you find the RB receiving yards stat? I'm asking because I see the NYG had 1,132 yards from their backs on receptions this year, which would be more than the Chargers and the Pats. I was unable to find a site where they showed it by team though, had to find each individual RB and add them up.
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I took it from an article in the Boston Globe. I believe Ben Volin who's usually pretty good....can't verify accuracy to be honest....hard to believe that the giants had more yards to their backs than the Pats did but I suppose it's possible
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
I’ll give you an alternative angle bro.

Respectfully chargers did score 23 on a good defense. No doubts.

But lamar didn’t posses the ball at all so chargers had the ball the entire game.

Vs pats Brady will out possess the chargers thus giving chargers much less time and possessions.

You nailed it on the head my friend. You found the actual relevant hidden capping angle!

If chargers had the ball the entire game and only scored 23 points how good are they?
I find that extremely unimpressive.
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Sammy....I think you are on to something....that command centre time is paying off...I've been sitting here wondering how the Chargers scored 23 points in that game because it made no sense to me and I never took time of possession into account and now it makers sense
 
Chargers will not possess the ball like they did last week.

I give them 3 possession per half. Likely 6 all game as patriots will possess the ball a lot more than lamar!

If in 1 half they only score once they will be down in that half.

They will be a different challenge. Going vs harbaugh and Lamar to Bill and Brady is different.

Chargers will need to score on their possessions and they sometimes struggle and can’t score they will find themselves in a different game.

It also depends on gus Bradley’s guts. Will he have the guts to blitz Brady? I doubt it.

Brady is struggling bigtime vs the blitz. Why teams don’t blitz every down is beyond me.

But most would rather play it safe and lose.
 
Also there is zero excuse for James white to be continually open on every play out of the backfield. Chargers if smart shoujd employ Derwin Janes man to man on James white and double cover Edelman.

But it seems like the pats are chess players. They will run the ball and then hit some Passes.

I fully expect Robert Gronkowski to have his best game of the season vs charger!

End of the day in a fight who woukd you take

The PATRIOT BEATS THE CHARGER
 
I rewatched the chargers ravens game in the command centre to focus on receiver routes. I can tell you that receivers were open vs the chargers. Lamar just wouldn’t pull the trigger.

Brady doesent need much opening and Pats at home are tough. They know how to exploit matchups and how to run the ball.

Defensively they scout their opponents better than most teams.
 
First off Jack Harbaugh would run circles around big Bellly, like huge circles

But Brady obv dominates Phillys

It shapes up to be a tight match

Gus will blitz, maybe a defensive score in this one either way a decent prop
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
Chargers will not possess the ball like they did last week.

I give them 3 possession per half. Likely 6 all game as patriots will possess the ball a lot more than lamar!

If in 1 half they only score once they will be down in that half.

They will be a different challenge. Going vs harbaugh and Lamar to Bill and Brady is different.

Chargers will need to score on their possessions and they sometimes struggle and can’t score they will find themselves in a different game.

It also depends on gus Bradley’s guts. Will he have the guts to blitz Brady? I doubt it.

Brady is struggling bigtime vs the blitz. Why teams don’t blitz every down is beyond me.

But most would rather play it safe and lose.
Click to expand...

Brady struggled against the blitz this season, at least in the first half of the season (haven’t been able to find stats for the whole season yet, but it was a story in early November about how bad he was).

However, the QB rankings while under pressure this year...

5th Brady/Cousins (tie)
4th Rodgers
3rd Brees
2nd Rivers
1st Mahomes

Pretty interesting that 4 QBs still playing we’re ranked in the top 5 this year under pressure. I’d imagine SD will try to blitz Brady some...and how he handles it and performs could well decide the game.
 
Brady has Edelman who can quickly get separation and running backs to check it down to who can get good yac. Ofc Brady is also known for having a quick release. I remember Miami giving him trouble with interior pressure that made it difficult for him to be comfortable in the pocket. I think Pats are built well to handle blitz and check down its pushing the ball downfield I worry about with slower Gronk and no Gordon
 
Bill and Josh are probably rolling a fatty right now listening to Tupac “ Changes”. I see no changes,all I see is rivers same plays!

As they groove to Tupac they are chillin in Bills room designing plays to beat L.A.
 
How did you get the camera angles to see if the Raven receivers were open during the Charger game? Do you have access to the coaches tape

Does NFL network offer a Birdseye view of game ?


Regardless , I think that is probably doubtful, the Ravens WRS stink
 
braves said:
How did you get the camera angles to see if the Raven receivers were open during the Charger game? Do you have access to the coaches tape

Regardless , I think that is probably doubtful, the Ravens WRS stink
Click to expand...

I don’t have a special angle. The tv camera angle shows 15 yards downfield which covers most patterns except for deep balls downfield.

I saw receuvers open underneath but lamar couldn’t anticipate the openings as he isn’t accurate or confident. I noticed receivers sitting in zones on numerous occasions.

Did you really think that it was the chargers lock down secondary or do you believe that it was lamar’s Inability to throw the ball to open guys?

Vs defenses players are almost always open. Take bama for example.

They ran their same defense that shut down the likes of Joe Burrow, Nick Fitzgerald, Kellen Mond and Jerry Stidham.
None of these guys could spot open receivers and stand in the pocket and deliver passes.

Vs Trevor Android Lawrence he clearly was tall enough poised enough to hit those wide open passes vs bama.

Only the really good qbs can spot the open receivers.
Lamar honestly is likely one of the worst qbs in history of the league to spot open guys.
Brady is likely one of the best ever to locate open receivers.

Chargers may win. If they do good fir them they will have earned it.

What I am attempting to do is to make ppl aware that last weeks game means nothing. Absolutely nothing. New opponent new players.

Ps- Ravens defense isn’t a clutch defense. At home last year they allowed Tyler Boyd to knock them out of playoffs.
Almost allowed Mayfield to do the same this season.

The ravens defebse gets a lot of hype due to media manipulation and Ray Lewis.
I see nothing special about their defense at all.
 
Ravens defense were put on their heels all f'n day because of the offense Sam, surely you recognize that

They are really fukkkn good but handicapped
 
Also remember that Patriots are so far ahead of most teams in terms of their coaching and the way they do things.

Patriots are winners. I know winners. I can smell winners.
Everything they do, every little detail is done with a winning mindset.

Obviously if you are at the top for over a decade you are surrounded by an organization of winners.

Pats are winners.

I’m unsure if Anthony Lynn and chargers are that type of organization.

A room full of men. It’s the ones with the winning mindset that win. The James Franklins dint win.

It’s the collection of men that have the winning mindset and traits that leads to wins and rings.

In every industry it’s abiut the winning mentality bd mindset.

Most teams are not winners. They just aren’t.

To say it’s easy money vs pats is ludicrous. M


Take a group of average mediocre mentality men on the road vs Bill josh Brady and their winning razor sharp focus.

I don’t know. I just don’t see chargers as that team
 
KJ said:
Ravens defense were put on their heels all f'n day because of the offense Sam, surely you recognize that

They are really fukkkn good but handicapped
Click to expand...

Bro they were one of the best defenses this season if not the best.

But they were not dominant. They were not even close to the Seahawks or broncos defense.

They were good but not great.

Those defenses were dominant and could win the game by themselves
 
For all your talk of understanding peaks and valleys, bout time you figure this one out

Or I won't trust you. Might have to break up.
 
Winners especially star players have to be durable.

Noticed this with Mel Gordon

He just can stay healthy in a big game. Always banged up.

Pats guys are usually healthy ready to go unless they suffer a serriiis knee injury.

But Gordon is the type of guy your team can’t rely on. He just isn’t a winner.

He might be Jj Watts brother. Where the he’ll is Watts in playoff games? He looks invisible to me!
 
KJ said:
For all your talk of understanding peaks and valleys, bout time you figure this one out

Or I won't trust you. Might have to break up.
Click to expand...


You cannot break up the spiritual boyz!

We are connected for better or for worse.

Plus we gotta hit some strip bars to check the scene out and make our presence known to the entertainers
 
LOL Mel Gibson isn't a winner, no winning mentality

He went to Hollywood and decried Jewish people. That's the opposite of a winner
 
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