Perfect Game / No-Hitter Alert Thread

jedi ninja said:
This is silly. There have been 316 no hitters in the history of Major League Baseball. 35 men have thrown 2 or more. Wanna figure out how many games have been played in the entirety of MLB and see how it stacks up?

Yes, perfect games are more impressive, but acting like a no hitter is meaningless or somehow easy to do is silly.
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I dont think anybody said meaningless or easy? Just not so meaningful that it's worth injuring a pitcher on a playoff-caliber team. And not easy but requiring a lot of luck -- consider the whole era/fip distinction
 
jedi ninja said:
This is silly. There have been 316 no hitters in the history of Major League Baseball. 35 men have thrown 2 or more. Wanna figure out how many games have been played in the entirety of MLB and see how it stacks up?

Yes, perfect games are more impressive, but acting like a no hitter is meaningless or somehow easy to do is silly.
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To add to the multiple guys…Nolan Ryan threw 7 and Sandy Koufax threw 5.
 
VirginiaCavs said:
I dont think anybody said meaningless or easy? Just not so meaningful that it's worth injuring a pitcher on a playoff-caliber team. And not easy but requiring a lot of luck -- consider the whole era/fip distinction
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I think Bank is pretty much saying they’re meaningless. Unless I’m reading the posts wrong and just taking it that way.
 
jedi ninja said:
I think Bank is pretty much saying they’re meaningless. Unless I’m reading the posts wrong and just taking it that way.
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I don’t think they easy by any stretch, they just incredibly random. I dunno id call them meaningless, I’m not saying they nothing, just in the grand scheme of things I don’t think they worth extending a pitcher beyond his norm, not valuable pitchers anyways, some garbage dude by all means. This all really started with the Kershaw one at beginning the year after a abbreviated spring. I just don’t think there any way they did the wrong thing by pulling him, considering his age, history, point in season, and the bigger goals they have. If you comparing them to dodgers goal of winning rings I’d say the ring is obviously a far more sought after and important accomplishment.
 
When you talking guys like Nolan Ryan who consistently was throwing compete games and dominating opponents obviously those were far less random and he no doubt earned them. That basically the difference between me throwing a 300 bowling game and a pro doing it! They consistently hitting the pocket frame after frame every game where as I’m much more inconsistent, if I bowl a 300 it a lot more random (or lucky) than when Belmo does it. Majority the no no we see today are fluky as shit.
 
Doesn’t mean they easy. They just require a lot of luck and far more of the ones I recall the last decade have not been close to the better pitching performances I have seen. I have no doubt Ryan, Randy Johnson, Kofax no hitters were freakin master pieces but again we now talking bout elite HOF pitchers who constantly were pitching gems, not many Guys of that Ilk have thrown a no hitter in recent memory. It been mostly stiffs who had a great night and a lot of babip luck while facing pretty incompetent hitters!!
 
Nobody is even coming close to consistently throwing complete games anymore. That in itself makes them a far more random occurrence now days than in the past. Obviously if a guy is going the distance consistently only allowing a few hits his chances of a no hitter go up exponentially, that said I guess all I’m really trying to say is do we really think Ryan was that much better those 7 nights than the tons of other times I have no doubt he pitched complete games, mowed down a ton, and just gave up a few bloop hits?? I don’t think any more of Nolan Ryan because the 7 no hitters as much as because how often he put himself in the position to occasionally have them. I would have to look but I assume his no hitters came with a ton of k’s and very few walks also, again not something we hardly ever see these days.
 
2daBank said:
I don’t think they easy by any stretch, they just incredibly random. I dunno id call them meaningless, I’m not saying they nothing, just in the grand scheme of things I don’t think they worth extending a pitcher beyond his norm, not valuable pitchers anyways, some garbage dude by all means.
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This is one thing and I’d agree with it.

However, you also said…

2daBank said:
I remember he had about 10-12 ropes smashed right at fielders in that game!! Per dumb ass luck!!
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2daBank said:
dude couldn’t no hit my nephews select team if he tried again!!
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2daBank said:
I didn’t find them all that impressive back when guys could hit. Now pitchers facing lineups with half of it hitting below .200!!
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2daBank said:
Half of them come with 6 walks! Lmao. Ultimately there has always been and will always be a ton of luck involved, I’ve seen way more impressively pitched games where a pitcher allowed a few hits than 75% the no hitters thrown.. All ya gotta do is look at the bunch of bums who have thrown them! Then come back and tell me it not some flukey shit, just cause a dude gets 27 balls hit right at ppl don’t mean he did something all that amazing! Sure for those losers it a huge deal since they will never have any great accomplishments, it basically hitting the lotto for those guys!
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Which is where my confusion must have come from.
 
2daBank said:
Nobody is even coming close to consistently throwing complete games anymore. That in itself makes them a far more random occurrence now days than in the past. Obviously if a guy is going the distance consistently only allowing a few hits his chances of a no hitter go up exponentially, that said I guess all I’m really trying to say is do we really think Ryan was that much better those 7 nights than the tons of other times I have no doubt he pitched complete games, mowed down a ton, and just gave up a few bloop hits?? I don’t think any more of Nolan Ryan because the 7 no hitters as much as because how often he put himself in the position to occasionally have them. I would have to look but I assume his no hitters came with a ton of k’s and very few walks also, again not something we hardly ever see these days.
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2021 saw the most no hitters in a season in MLB history. The previous high was in 1884.
 
2daBank said:
Nobody is even coming close to consistently throwing complete games anymore. That in itself makes them a far more random occurrence now days than in the past. Obviously if a guy is going the distance consistently only allowing a few hits his chances of a no hitter go up exponentially, that said I guess all I’m really trying to say is do we really think Ryan was that much better those 7 nights than the tons of other times I have no doubt he pitched complete games, mowed down a ton, and just gave up a few bloop hits?? I don’t think any more of Nolan Ryan because the 7 no hitters as much as because how often he put himself in the position to occasionally have them. I would have to look but I assume his no hitters came with a ton of k’s and very few walks also, again not something we hardly ever see these days.
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Nolan Ryan had 26 walks in his 7 no hitters. That’s almost 4 per no hitter. He had 96 strike outs in those 7 games (17 in one of them).
 
jedi ninja said:
This is one thing and I’d agree with it.

However, you also said…









Which is where my confusion must have come from.
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Fair. I have no doubt many ppl value them way more than me. I can’t recall the last no hitter I thought was truly one the better pitching performances of that season let alone history!! Can you? Again that don’t mean they easy but neither is hitting a slot machine jackpot, lol. I realize I’m going way overboard with that analogy cause obviously it takes a vast amount of skill I don’t have to even be out on a big league mound in the 1st place, I realize this I promise! Lol.

Like I said above the ones you brought up that were thrown by all time greats who were consistently going really deep into or completing games had far less luck attached to them than the ones we generally see today, the game itself where they occurred I’ll argue till I die no doubt had some luck attached compared to their other outings where they were most likely just as dominate but a few balls found holes. Just the fact they consistently gave themselves those chance is what I find equally as great as the time it does happen.

I know you a sharp cat and i know if you look at the majority of the recent no hitters you can easily find other pitching performances that were way better than the ones that happened to be no hitters: I’ve seen Alcontera throw 5-6 games this year that were light years more impressive than the no hitter that guy on snakes who’s name I forgot again already threw last season!! Every start Degrom makes better than the last 5 no hitters I recall. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a accomplishment, I just don’t think as highly of them these days or when they come from guys who never even threw a complete game before, imo these days they basically random blips in the universe.
 
jedi ninja said:
Nolan Ryan had 26 walks in his 7 no hitters. That’s almost 4 per no hitter. He had 96 strike outs in those 7 games (17 in one of them).
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Damn. I was still really young when he was in his prime. That a lot of damn walks. I guess if you fanning 13ish a game tho it ok! But again how many complete games did Ryan have where he just allowed a few hits? Something tells me I can find one where he didn’t walk anyone I would find every bit as impressive as at least 3 the no hitters., the 17k one was obviously a all Fuckin time performance, there not much random babip luck when only 10 balls are put in play!!
 
2daBank said:
Fair. I have no doubt many ppl value them way more than me. I can’t recall the last no hitter I thought was truly one the better pitching performances of that season let alone history!! Can you? Again that don’t mean they easy but neither is hitting a slot machine jackpot, lol. I realize I’m going way overboard with that analogy cause obviously it takes a vast amount of skill I don’t have to even be out on a big league mound in the 1st place, I realize this I promise! Lol.

Like I said above the ones you brought up that were thrown by all time greats who were consistently going really deep into or completing games had far less luck attached to them than the ones we generally see today, the game itself where they occurred I’ll argue till I die no doubt had some luck attached compared to their other outings where they were most likely just as dominate but a few balls found holes. Just the fact they consistently gave themselves those chance is what I find equally as great as the time it does happen.

I know you a sharp cat and i know if you look at the majority of the recent no hitters you can easily find other pitching performances that were way better than the ones that happened to be no hitters: I’ve seen Alcontera throw 5-6 games this year that were light years more impressive than the no hitter that guy on snakes who’s name I forgot again already threw last season!! Every start Degrom makes better than the last 5 no hitters I recall. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a accomplishment, I just don’t think as highly of them these days or when they come from guys who never even threw a complete game before, imo these days they basically random blips in the universe.
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Verlander’s most recent was pretty good (he has 3 career by the way). Doc Halladay in the playoffs as well. Two that came to mind right away.

I get that they contain some luck, and sure guys have better outings without having a no hitter…but you can do that for most every accomplishment in any sport, pick it apart and make it less than it is on its own.
 
jedi ninja said:
2021 saw the most no hitters in a season in MLB history. The previous high was in 1884.
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I only remember 1 and it was memorable by how it was one the least impressive no hitters I’ve ever watched!! Lol. Ultimately right or wrong imo unless it thrown by just a guy I don’t think it ranks real high up the achievement list. That doesn’t mean it is easy., they incredibly improbable, especially since nobody throws complete games anymore, I just don’t think that makes them better than other dominant starts I’ve seen by great pitchers.
 
315 no hitters all time. 35 guys did it at least twice.

Ryan with 7
Koufax with 5
Feller, Cy Young, Larry Corcoran, Verlander with 3

All are in the HOF above except Corcoran (and obviously Verlander but he’s a shoe in). That leaves 29 guys with 2. That’s 85 no hitters between the list of guys with 2 or more. That means only 230 other guys have thrown a no hitter in MLB history. Has to be close to 300,000 games played since it began.

Which makes the perfect game much more rare.
 
How about this question…do you think hitting for a cycle is as impressive, or more meaningful than a no hitter? Don’t cheat either, just top of the head answer.
 
jedi ninja said:
Verlander’s most recent was pretty good (he has 3 career by the way). Doc Halladay in the playoffs as well. Two that came to mind right away.

I get that they contain some luck, and sure guys have better outings without having a no hitter…but you can do that for most every accomplishment in any sport, pick it apart and make it less than it is on its own.
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There no other accomplishment that gets put up on such a pedestal that I feel is so random. For the most part the all time great things we think of rarely get achieved by such average or below average players. You can sway me a bit if we can find another achievement thought of so highly that has such a list of crappy players who have done it! lol.

Let me be clear on this also tho, i don’t think no hitters should just get put into a box of being equally great. There are huge differences in some of them compared to others. For the most part if a guy hits a cycle or 4 bombs that is what it is. I’m not gonna say “guy x 4 bombs only went x amount of feet”. Yes there obviously little luck involved w those but it not the same kind of luck it takes when you get 24 balls hit right at guys for outs (assuming only 3 strike outs). What the contact like? Hendricks for cubs has a few those compete games with less than 100 pitches I think are incredibly impressive and he pitching to contact, I’m all for weak contact outs but when there a bunch of ropes hit right at guys I have a hard time ew’ing and ah’ing over it. Maybe I’m wrong on this, I think it pretty much opinion so I dunno that it wrong to look at it however it makes ya feel and more no hitters than not lately don’t make me feel impressed.
 
jedi ninja said:
How about this question…do you think hitting for a cycle is as impressive, or more meaningful than a no hitter? Don’t cheat either, just top of the head answer.
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Lol. I just brought that up as you were posting this in my last answer!! (Great minds and all).

I think cycle is prob more random but could be far less luck involved. Again I think it a case by case thing but if I’m being totally honest cycle has never impressed me a ton either, very random.
 
jedi ninja said:
How about this question…do you think hitting for a cycle is as impressive, or more meaningful than a no hitter? Don’t cheat either, just top of the head answer.
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Cycle much less impressive imo bc it‘s more random. On a level there’s more intentionality in a no-hitter
 
2daBank said:
Lol. I just brought that up as you were posting this in my last answer!! (Great minds and all).

I think cycle is prob more random but could be far less luck involved. Again I think it a case by case thing but if I’m being totally honest cycle has never impressed me a ton either, very random.
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338 cycles in MLB history. 23 more than no hitters. Triples can be pretty lucky themselves, so the same argument can be made as I mentioned above.
 
2daBank said:
There no other accomplishment that gets put up on such a pedestal that I feel is so random. For the most part the all time great things we think of rarely get achieved by such average or below average players. You can sway me a bit if we can find another achievement thought of so highly that has such a list of crappy players who have done it! lol.

Let me be clear on this also tho, i don’t think no hitters should just get put into a box of being equally great. There are huge differences in some of them compared to others. For the most part if a guy hits a cycle or 4 bombs that is what it is. I’m not gonna say “guy x 4 bombs only went x amount of feet”. Yes there obviously little luck involved w those but it not the same kind of luck it takes when you get 24 balls hit right at guys for outs (assuming only 3 strike outs). What the contact like? Hendricks for cubs has a few those compete games with less than 100 pitches I think are incredibly impressive and he pitching to contact, I’m all for weak contact outs but when there a bunch of ropes hit right at guys I have a hard time ew’ing and ah’ing over it. Maybe I’m wrong on this, I think it pretty much opinion so I dunno that it wrong to look at it however it makes ya feel and more no hitters than not lately don’t make me feel impressed.
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I can see the point about hard hit balls, but there’s also the point that the defense is set up in the right spot for how the pitcher is pitching and he’s pitching to contact in many instances. There’s a lot more that goes into it than someone just hitting a ball hard and it being caught.
 
Seems like every big pitching accomplishment involves at least one stellar defensive play — quite apart from fielder positioning. Like Mark Buehrle‘s
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Seems like every big pitching accomplishment involves at least one stellar defensive play — quite apart from fielder positioning. Like Mark Buehrle‘s
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Could be. That’s one play here and there, not 20+ hard hit balls as was mentioned to diminish the feat. My answer was simply a response to that claim.
 
jedi ninja said:
I can see the point about hard hit balls, but there’s also the point that the defense is set up in the right spot for how the pitcher is pitching and he’s pitching to contact in many instances. There’s a lot more that goes into it than someone just hitting a ball hard and it being caught.
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Agreed but cmon bro. There been at least a handful the last decade where dude wasn’t commanding his spot to force them to hit it somewhere. That doesn’t mean there havnt been amazing pitched no hitters that I thought were incredible. I just don’t think we should be impressed by the mere fact a no hitter randomly occurred. I love dominating pitching performances and if a no hitter happens to get attached to one of those I guess it makes it slightly more noteworthy but there no way I’m more impressed with a 4-5 walk, 3 k no hitter with 50% hard contact rate than I am with a guy fanning double digits, not walking dudes, not getting barreled up but happens to have a couple hits drop in.
 
2daBank said:
Agreed but cmon bro. There been at least a handful the last decade where dude wasn’t commanding his spot to force them to hit it somewhere. That doesn’t mean there havnt been amazing pitched no hitters that I thought were incredible. I just don’t think we should be impressed by the mere fact a no hitter randomly occurred. I love dominating pitching performances and if a no hitter happens to get attached to one of those I guess it makes it slightly more noteworthy but there no way I’m more impressed with a 4-5 walk, 3 k no hitter with 50% hard contact rate than I am with a guy fanning double digits, not walking dudes, not getting barreled up but happens to have a couple hits drop in.
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I never said you should be impressed by a no hitter, and certainly not by all of them. I was making the case they aren’t meaningless.
 
jedi ninja said:
I never said you should be impressed by a no hitter, and certainly not by all of them. I was making the case they aren’t meaningless.
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You should be used to me enough to know there gonna be some hyperbole attached when I’m arguing! Meaningless is obviously going to far, I’m not even sure I said they were meaningless, wouldn’t surprise me if I did at one point, I say a lot of shit, lol. I guess it has meaning for the guy who throws it, I think vastly more meaning to the crappy pitchers who have done it, I think we really need to find one the bad asses who have thrown one and ask him where it ranks on his least of proudest achievements? I’m actually super curious now! Lol. I feel like if I was a HOF championship winning pitcher throwing a no no would be pretty far down for myself but I’ve never claimed to be normal by any stretch! I could be way off on how they feel bout it!! Of course I think if it was that important to Kershaw they woulda let him go for it If he wanted.
 
It’s a good and fun discussion either way. I’m just tired of the absolutes and bombastic way everyone talks about sports (and other things these days). Everything has to be “the best ever” or “the worst,” or the “most impressive,” etc, etc.

Not at all saying anyone in here said that, just more of a general overall point. Trying to compare sports feats, or sports teams/players throughout history is nearly impossible, but it seems that’s ALL the sports media and social media compadres do these days.
 
jedi ninja said:
It’s a good and fun discussion either way. I’m just tired of the absolutes and bombastic way everyone talks about sports (and other things these days). Everything has to be “the best ever” or “the worst,” or the “most impressive,” etc, etc.

Not at all saying anyone in here said that, just more of a general overall point. Trying to compare sports feats, or sports teams throughout history is nearly impossible, but it seems that’s ALL the sports media and social media compadres do these days.
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I’m thrilled I got someone to argue this with me who has a opinion I respect and smart enough to go back and forth without any fucjing memes!! Fuck we just killed over a hour where I was gonna be bored as shit! For me that bout the best sports are for, and gambling of course!!
 
jedi ninja said:
It’s a good and fun discussion either way. I’m just tired of the absolutes and bombastic way everyone talks about sports (and other things these days). Everything has to be “the best ever” or “the worst,” or the “most impressive,” etc, etc.

Not at all saying anyone in here said that, just more of a general overall point. Trying to compare sports feats, or sports teams/players throughout history is nearly impossible, but it seems that’s ALL the sports media and social media compadres do these days.
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Likewise everybody is the new goat or the baby goat or whatever. It‘s so shallow!

And i‘m sure a lot of those sports media guys are capable of having much more intelligent conversations. But they‘re appealing to a wider audience
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Likewise everybody is the new goat or the baby goat or whatever. It‘s so shallow!

And i‘m sure a lot of those sports media guys are capable of having much more intelligent conversations. But they‘re appealing to a wider audience
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It’s super fucking annoying. Especially when younger guys have no idea who or what they’re even comparing the next big thing to in the first place. And you’re right, you’d have to imagine a lot of these guys are capable of, and would probably rather, having a more nuanced/intelligent conversation about most things.

Like if we’re being completely honest most guys who played before 1980 (pick a year, it doesn’t have to be 1980) couldn’t hold a candle to the physical specimens that play every sport today. So technically yes, the more recent guys are MUCH better athletes…but the conversations should be about how that player dominated the players/league at the time as they were all athletically “equal” in that time period.
 
I think you guys are giving the vast majority of them to much credit. Maybe there a few but for most part I’m not so sure!
 
jedi ninja said:
It’s a good and fun discussion either way. I’m just tired of the absolutes and bombastic way everyone talks about sports (and other things these days). Everything has to be “the best ever” or “the worst,” or the “most impressive,” etc, etc.

Not at all saying anyone in here said that, just more of a general overall point. Trying to compare sports feats, or sports teams/players throughout history is nearly impossible, but it seems that’s ALL the sports media and social media compadres do these days.
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No idea why they don’t just take that time to be capping this shit like I do!! None of the crap they constantly going on about matters to me.
 
Always worried bout sone dudes legacy or where he ranks, who gives a shit? All I care bout whether or not he can hit his props in next game!!
 
Oh one last thing. Despite what I say I can’t think they totally meaningless cause at least a handful of times a year you will catch me say someone has a no no going! Did it today w Montas, Lol.
 
2daBank said:
Oh one last thing. Despite what I say I can’t think they totally meaningless cause at least a handful of times a year you will catch me say someone has a no no going! Did it today w Montas, Lol.
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Sometimes i find it fun to suspend the cynicism and simply indulge in child-like enjoyment of the
moment
 
VirginiaCavs said:
You expect too much of people intellectually. I‘m not sure most people can name half of our Presidents but becoming it is still generally considered an amazing accomplishment
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This seems like a hit on those of us who do everything we can to eliminate meaningless info. Since I saw my my grandfather with Alzheimer's and he didn't recognize me til I brought up an old memory, I believe binging and purging most meaningless thing central to survival. Stats on some random pitcher have no place in this storage house.
 
KJ said:
This seems like a hit on those of us who do everything we can to eliminate meaningless info. Since I saw my my grandfather with Alzheimer's and he didn't recognize me til I brought up an old memory, I believe binging and purging most meaningless thing central to survival. Stats on some random pitcher have no place in this storage house.
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Well the question is whether no-hitters are meaningless
 
Guarantee if you throw a no hitter today the only meaningful stat to me is I'm fading you next time

Not sure where any of that got lost in translation

I'm still trying to remember if I ate dinner tonight
 
I think Javier start today was far more impressive than several the more recent no hitters I’ve seen. 7 innings, 13 k’s and only 1 walk vs this yanks lineup was a world class pitching performance!!
 
jedi ninja said:
It’s super fucking annoying. Especially when younger guys have no idea who or what they’re even comparing the next big thing to in the first place. And you’re right, you’d have to imagine a lot of these guys are capable of, and would probably rather, having a more nuanced/intelligent conversation about most things.

Like if we’re being completely honest most guys who played before 1980 (pick a year, it doesn’t have to be 1980) couldn’t hold a candle to the physical specimens that play every sport today. So technically yes, the more recent guys are MUCH better athletes…but the conversations should be about how that player dominated the players/league at the time as they were all athletically “equal” in that time period.
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How come you don’t post much baseball bro? You bet it?? You clearly know the sport.
 
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