Manny Suspended
- Thread starter GTribe5
- Start date
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
I'll be the first to make the guess.
Going off that statement, Manny's got crabs or some sort of STD and they're buying time to see how much they can get away without saying.
Like, can they come out and say, he had a 'rash' or a 'skin condition' or do they have to come out and say that Paris Hilton gave him herpes. Because the truth is, marketing wise, if only the latter will get him off the hook it might be worth 50 games in the long run as opposed to having everybody look at you like Ron Mexico for the rest of your career until they forget about that because you're busted for slamming pit bulls into walls and drowning them because they don't fight like you want them to.
Going off that statement, Manny's got crabs or some sort of STD and they're buying time to see how much they can get away without saying.
Like, can they come out and say, he had a 'rash' or a 'skin condition' or do they have to come out and say that Paris Hilton gave him herpes. Because the truth is, marketing wise, if only the latter will get him off the hook it might be worth 50 games in the long run as opposed to having everybody look at you like Ron Mexico for the rest of your career until they forget about that because you're busted for slamming pit bulls into walls and drowning them because they don't fight like you want them to.
Pimpdaddy55
Pretty much a regular
Well fucking said :shake:
This. Thanks Manny!
Question. I cannot remember the drug policy for MLB perfectly. I was under the impression that it was the third failed test then 50 games and suspension got bigger with each sunsequent one. IO know in NBA, the first few tests are never even reported.
I actually believe Manny. Ain't no way he is on roaids unless someone laced his doughnuts with them.
Smokedawg
Eagles Fan
Nah they changed it...
First positive test for steroids is 50 games
2nd is 100
3rd is your done
Smokedawg
Eagles Fan
The new policy was brought about by threat of legislation from Congress. Under the policy tougher penalties for steroid use are implemented. Under the new policy the players are to be tested during their spring training along with at least one additional test during the regular season as well as being subject to random testing throughout the regular season.
Under the previous policy, penalties were much less severe. For example, for a first offense a player would be subject to a 10-day suspension and then 30 days for a second offense. A third offense would rate a 60 day suspension. The new policy calls for a 50 game suspension for the first offense and a 100 game offense for the second offense. For a third offense the player will receive a lifetime ban. Additionally, after the first offense the player will be subjected to amphetamines testing as well as steroid testing. This is the first time the problem of amphetamine use will have been addressed by a policy with MLB. Under the old policy a player could not receive a lifetime ban until he had been hit with at least a fifth offense.
Under the previous policy testing was also conducted on a much less frequent basis. Testing was conducted at the beginning of spring training with no additional testing through the regular season other than random testing. Under this policy, it was quite possible for a player to only be tested once from the beginning of spring training throughout the regular season.
Under the previous policy, penalties were much less severe. For example, for a first offense a player would be subject to a 10-day suspension and then 30 days for a second offense. A third offense would rate a 60 day suspension. The new policy calls for a 50 game suspension for the first offense and a 100 game offense for the second offense. For a third offense the player will receive a lifetime ban. Additionally, after the first offense the player will be subjected to amphetamines testing as well as steroid testing. This is the first time the problem of amphetamine use will have been addressed by a policy with MLB. Under the old policy a player could not receive a lifetime ban until he had been hit with at least a fifth offense.
Under the previous policy testing was also conducted on a much less frequent basis. Testing was conducted at the beginning of spring training with no additional testing through the regular season other than random testing. Under this policy, it was quite possible for a player to only be tested once from the beginning of spring training throughout the regular season.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Bill Plaschke is blowing a gasket on ESPN about this. He sounds like the cheated on girlfriend.
D-Woww
Old Man Dan
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
I'm kind of shocked at how the media is already burying Manny.
Bonds I understood, because he was an *sshole toward them all the time. And I don't know if Manny's a jerk or not, but this story's like three hours old or whatever and already ESPN is starting to crystalize around the idea that Manny will never get into the Hall, that he's no different than ARod and McGuire, etc.
Yet the whole story doesn't even seem to be remotely out yet.
Bonds I understood, because he was an *sshole toward them all the time. And I don't know if Manny's a jerk or not, but this story's like three hours old or whatever and already ESPN is starting to crystalize around the idea that Manny will never get into the Hall, that he's no different than ARod and McGuire, etc.
Yet the whole story doesn't even seem to be remotely out yet.
D-Woww
Old Man Dan
Joe I have a theory about that. I think Manny is a huge dick and is always a dick to people, media included. However, his constant greatness and silly, jolly persona has made the public not aware of how much of a dick he actually is. I think the media is acting like this because they are finally getting teh chance to crucify the guy who has, for so long, fooled the public into thinking hes a harmless loose cannon.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
from what i remember from fenway, Manny was a joker, half way through the inning he would go into the green monster take a piss and come out, he would look into the stands, starting waving at girls, kids, mainly the former and wink at them lol...dont' see how he's a bad guy here,
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Kudos to Peter Gammons for not jumping to conclusions, talking about the JC Romero situation and waiting until all the facts are in.
Also, interesting tidbit, he said he traded messages with someone in the Red Sox organization--a team that obviously doesn't have a whole lot of love for Manny--and this person was 'incredulous' about Manny taking steroids, that it just wouldn't happen.
Also, interesting tidbit, he said he traded messages with someone in the Red Sox organization--a team that obviously doesn't have a whole lot of love for Manny--and this person was 'incredulous' about Manny taking steroids, that it just wouldn't happen.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
I could see that, YoungOne. It doesn't seem like Manny would really care about you and your deadlines or your questions all that much as a reporter. So I could see it.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
funny how it all works, almost evry profession comes with liabilities and responsibilities, the media can slam someone, be wrong and it's a-ok..not defending manny here or any of the accused, but the prime example would be the author of that a rod book and the college lacross team i think? wasn't she proven wrong? and where is she now? still there making money off allegations..true or not
t-dot
Pretty much a regular
CollegeKingRex
CTG Regular
Sex drugs... this just keeps getting better...
wreck
Pretty much a regular
Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
By Tim Brown and Steve Henson
1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Buzz up! 17 votes
Print
LOS ANGELES – A source close to Manny Ramirez(notes) said Thursday that the illegal substance for which the Los Angeles Dodgers slugger tested positive was not “an agent customarily used for performance enhancing.”
At least not on the baseball diamond. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the substance is supposed to boost sex drive. It is not Viagra, but a substance that treats the cause rather providing a temporary boost in sexual performance, the source said.
Ramirez tested positive for the substance during spring training, then was administered a second test more recently, and it also was positive. Major League Baseball notified Ramirez of the second positive test after Wednesday night’s Dodgers victory over the Washington Nationals. Ramirez admitted to having taken the substance and declined to appeal. His 50-game suspension begins today.
“The substance is not a steroid and it is not human-growth hormone,” the source said.
Ramirez, the source said, acquired the substance through a prescription from a doctor in Miami for his medical condition. The source intimated that Ramirez might bring legal action against the physician.
Ramirez released the following statement Thursday morning: “Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.
The Dodgers, who have won a Major League record 13 consecutive home games to start the season, will be without Ramirez until July 3. Outfielder Xavier Paul was promoted from triple-A to take Ramirez’s place on the roster. The suspension will cost Ramirez close to $8 million in lost wages.
By Tim Brown and Steve Henson
1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Buzz up! 17 votes
LOS ANGELES – A source close to Manny Ramirez(notes) said Thursday that the illegal substance for which the Los Angeles Dodgers slugger tested positive was not “an agent customarily used for performance enhancing.”
At least not on the baseball diamond. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the substance is supposed to boost sex drive. It is not Viagra, but a substance that treats the cause rather providing a temporary boost in sexual performance, the source said.
Ramirez tested positive for the substance during spring training, then was administered a second test more recently, and it also was positive. Major League Baseball notified Ramirez of the second positive test after Wednesday night’s Dodgers victory over the Washington Nationals. Ramirez admitted to having taken the substance and declined to appeal. His 50-game suspension begins today.
“The substance is not a steroid and it is not human-growth hormone,” the source said.
Ramirez, the source said, acquired the substance through a prescription from a doctor in Miami for his medical condition. The source intimated that Ramirez might bring legal action against the physician.
Ramirez released the following statement Thursday morning: “Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.
The Dodgers, who have won a Major League record 13 consecutive home games to start the season, will be without Ramirez until July 3. Outfielder Xavier Paul was promoted from triple-A to take Ramirez’s place on the roster. The suspension will cost Ramirez close to $8 million in lost wages.
barmeezee
dirty hippie fuckslave
i took sustanon before and used CLOMID as post cycle therapy.. was the worst decision ever taking the shit i dont know why i did it.. it was in colllege and i guess i wanted help gettin cut up not building mass.. i reacted bad to the shit had broken out all over my back ..my nuts shrank..
But the CLOMID or a variation is what he had in him.. that means he was most likely juicing in the off season.. i cannot believe otherwise
But the CLOMID or a variation is what he had in him.. that means he was most likely juicing in the off season.. i cannot believe otherwise
CASH
Pretty much a regular
This is not the only reason you take this drug.
All males have a decrease in testosterone especially as they reach the age of 40. some people more than others. He may have been taking this just to increase his own level, which is not just used to build muscle mass.
Decrease in energy, mood, sex drive amongst others..
I am not saying he did or did not use it for these reasons but because someone on espn or some other sports channel writes it doesnt mean he is telling the whole truth. probably just enough to peak the interest of the readers. TJ quinn should also say what else it is used for..
CASH
Pretty much a regular
ok, i only saw the part that he said it was used for guys coming off a cycle.
just annoys me that these "reporters" just write what they want and not tell the whole story..
Satyr
Paster of Muppets
Yeah, looks pretty bad at the moment, but let's wait on the confirmation, it may not be steroids. Not saying it's not, just saying it may not be.
Also, I don't think Vladdy is using anything FWIW. But it's easy for us to talk, I wonder who else is on the list Conseco mentions.
This sucks because I love baseball and this is pretty hard to swallow.
Marlo
Check out my DAD BOD
CAPital
Pretty much a regular
Bingo.
Your right clomid fucking sucks, basically like you have PMS 24/7, but it gets your nuts back to normal.
Also lol at Manny using the Sexual Disorder as his reason for using HCG. HCG is a shot given with an insulin needle either during or after a steroid cycle to get your nuts back and natural test production flowing again. Trust me if he's giving himself HCG shots, he is more than comfortable around a needle.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Not to let him off the hook prematurely, but it's far easier for me to believe Manny was popping the little blue pill than he was sticking to a juicing schedule.
But I am completely an outsider in this. I've barely followed the guy's career at all.
But I am completely an outsider in this. I've barely followed the guy's career at all.
wreck
Pretty much a regular
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Bill Plashacke is a friggin whiny queer
Bill Plashacke is a friggin whiny queer
Santacapper
Pretty much a regular
enzyte?
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
Marlo
Check out my DAD BOD
Dateline: May 7, 2014
My son and I have flown back from California to spend the week in Boston. He is a little more than 6½ at this point. He has never set foot in Fenway Park before. The time is right. He likes baseball. He likes the Red Sox. He's a little sports encyclopedia. I have brainwashed him. He is just old enough to understand the significance of his first Fenway game, and more importantly, old enough that he'll be able to remember the experience decades later.
[+] Enlarge
<CITE>Harry How/Getty Images</CITE>Manny Ramirez was the best right-handed hitter of his generation. But now, we're not sure what that means.
We bring my father with us. Three generations of the Simmons family taking in a Red Sox-Yankees game for the first time. This should be a wonderful moment. A signature moment, even.
We find our $1,500 seats in the lower boxes near third base. We are sitting in Best Buy's Section 17, which is right between Bob's Discount Furniture's Section 16 and Costco's Section 18. Every section has a sponsor now. The Green Monster is now called "The Pepsi Green Monster" and has a big Pepsi can painted on it. Ted Williams' special seat in right field is now sponsored by Muscle Milk. Even home plate is sponsored by Dunkin' Donuts. Has the logo on it and everything. That's just the way sports work now.
We settle into our seats. I point toward the championship banners over the first base side. They go in order: 1903, 1904, 1912, 1915, 1916, 1918, 2004, 2007. Ever since Boston won the World Series five years ago, I always imagined pointing to that 2004 banner and telling my little boy, "That's the team that changed everything."
So that's what I do. I point at the banner and tell him, "That's the team that changed everything."
"Isn't that the team that cheated?" he asks.
My father and I glance at each other. A few beats pass.
"Well, technically, no," I stammer. "I mean ..."
"I thought they had a whole bunch of steroid guys on that team," he says.
"Well, there have been some accusations, and yeah, some of the power numbers were a little suspicious, but ..."
"I'd do it again!" my dad yells happily.
"Dad!"
I shake my head at him. He shrugs. The thing is, he WOULD do it again. He wanted to see the Red Sox win the World Series in his lifetime. He worried about it constantly. So did I. So did every Red Sox fan. We worried about living a full life, then dying, without ever seeing them win. All of us knew people who fit that category. None of us wanted to end up in there.
All of us would have made a deal with the devil at the time. And maybe we did. We just didn't know it.
"Nothing was ever really proven," I tell my son, trying to keep up the good fight.
He ignores me and starts rattling through our 2004 lineup with creepy precision. He points out Nomar's remarkable 1999 and 2000 seasons, subsequent tendon injuries and how his career played out so blandly afterward for reasons that remain unclear. My Dad points out the Sox traded Nomar midway through the season. Technically, that debate shouldn't even matter. Score one for Dad.
"But what about Trot Nixon and Bill Mueller?" my son says. "They missed a bunch of games every year with injuries, put on weight when they were skinny guys, peaked quickly and were never seen again. Same for Mark Bellhorn, right? That's suspicious."
"Well," I say, "their names never came up in anything, so that's not really fair ..."
"And Kevin Millar, he had a few big homer years, then his power numbers went way down once the testing started."
"That's true, but it doesn't prove anything ..."
"And Johnny Damon, he got bigger and started hitting for more power even though he was a singles hitter, right?"
"Well ..."
[+] Enlarge
<CITE>Ezra Shaw/Getty Images</CITE>The events of that magical fall of 2004 are now in question.
"And what about Big Papi?" he wonders. "Played for Minnesota, didn't hit for power, came to the Red Sox, turned into the best slugger in the league, and as soon as they cracked down on steroids, he stopped hitting homers again. And he was friends with all the other Dominicans who were linked to PEDs. What about him?"
Silence. Nobody says anything.
Finally, my Dad steps in: "He had an inside-outside swing at Minnesota, when he came to Boston, we encouraged him to pull the ball, so ..."
"Come on, Gramps!" my son says. "That's dumb and you know it."
We glance out to the field. Big Papi is one of Boston's coaches now. After hitting 54 homers in 2006, his career was over within four years. Now he's just a fat guy in his early 40s coaching first base. You would never guess this was the same guy who carried us in 2004, the guy who fueled the Greatest Comeback Ever, the guy who helped convince an entire fan base that, yes, we could believe.
"And what about Manny?" my son asks. "He tested positive for performance enhancers in 2009 with the Dodgers. How do you know he wasn't using that whole time?"
"Well, we don't," I say. "But that was kind of a fluke -- he had a doctor in Florida who prescribed him a banned substance, and ..."
"Come on, Dad, I read your Red Sox book. You said that at least you knew Manny couldn't have ever used steroids because he was too dumb to figure out how to stick to a cycle. Then he tested positive. You were, like, his biggest fan. You wrote a big piece after he got traded that was so long it took me a week to read."
"I told him not to write that column," my dad says. "Manny needed to go. He was a selfish jerk. Your father had blinders on ..."
"Come on, that's not fair," I say. "I loved the guy. He was on the team for more than eight years. He helped us end the curse. He made our lives as Red Sox fans more fun. He was like family. I wasn't gonna dump the guy from my life after everything he did just because his agent poisoned him against the team."
"But you defended him and said he was a good guy at heart," my son says. "And then he cheated, right? So how does that make him a good guy?"
I take a deep breath.
"It doesn't make him a good guy," I say. "You don't understand what it was like to follow baseball before you were born. There was a strike in 1994, and the World Series was canceled. Everyone hated baseball. Then McGwire and Sosa started hitting homers, and the balls started flying out of the park, and it was so much fun that everyone looked the other way. We didn't care that these guys were practically busting out of their skin or growing second foreheads. We really didn't. All the cheating made baseball more fun to watch. We were in denial. It was weird.
"Then, Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season, and that was like the turning point. We realized that things had gone too far. We blamed him for cheating and looked the other way with dozens of other guys who were doing the same thing. Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996; we didn't care. Bret Boone had 141 RBI in a season, we didn't care. Big Papi went from 10 homers to 41 in four seasons; we didn't care. Clemens was washed up and could suddenly throw 98 and win Cy Youngs again; we didn't care. Erig Gagne saved 84 straight games and threw 120 miles an hour; we didn't care. Good players started blowing out tendons that nobody had never heard of; we didn't care. Pitchers blew out elbow tendons and shoulder ligaments routinely; we didn't care. This was the deal. They cheated; we pretended they didn't. It's really hard to explain unless you were there."
My son tries to soak everything in. That's lot to process for a 6-year-old.
Finally ...
"So when the Red Sox won in 2004, did you know some of the guys might have been cheating?" he asks.
"At the time?" I answer. "No. Either we were in total denial, or we just didn't care."
"I'd do it again!" my dad yells happily, getting another withering glare from me.
"You have to understand," I say. "EVERYONE cheated back then. You know how I drive 80 on the highway even though all the signs say to go 55? That's how everyone thought back then -- the signs said one thing, but everyone did the other. There were so many people cheating that, competitively, you almost had to cheat to keep up with everyone else."
"So why didn't the people in charge get everyone to stop cheating?" my son asks.
"I wish I knew. The players' union didn't care, the commissioner's office didn't care, nobody cared. Until it was too late."
"So you won the World Series twice because of Manny and Papi," my son says, "but they were cheating the whole time and so were some of their teammates? Dad, your whole book was about how you could die in peace because they won in 2004. If they cheated to win, does that make what happened OK?"
The question hangs in the air. And hangs. And hangs.
"I don't know," I finally answer. "I still haven't figured that part out yet. Again, you don't understand what it was like. Everyone was cheating, so the playing field was kind of even, as weird as that sounds. You can't imagine how depressing it was to be a Red Sox fan at the time. Things always went wrong. We hadn't won in 86 years. We were the whipping boy of the Yankees. We always expected the worst to happen, mainly because the worst always did. That 2004 title made life easier for everyone. We could just follow the team without all the other negative crap. Does that make sense?
"I guess," he nods. "But Manny was your favorite hitter on that team. And he tested positive. Is he still your favorite hitter?"
"Yes and no," I say. "No, because he cheated. Yes, because, whether he was cheating or not, I can't forget watching him hit baseballs on a daily basis. I just can't. You should have seen him. Perfect swing, perfect balance, perfect everything. He was a hitting savant. That's the funny thing: he didn't NEED to cheat. The guy was put on the earth to hit.
"But he did cheat," my son says.
"He did. Yes. He did."
"So he's not your favorite player from that team now?"
"He never was; Pedro was. Manny was my favorite hitter. I loved Pedro the most."
I am dreading the next question. I am dreading it. I do not want him to ask it. I know it's coming.
"Did Pedro cheat?"
Silence.
I take a deep breath. So does my father. You can't describe in a few tidy sentences, off the cuff, what it was like to watch Pedro Martinez pitch in 1999 and 2000. To paraphrase Joe Mantegna in "Searching For Bobby Fischer," Pedro was better at pitching than you or I will ever be at anything. He had swagger. He had four A-plus pitches. He had everything. He spurred me to buy tickets from scalpers when I was broke. I would do it again. I watched Pedro Martinez pitch at his apex at Fenway Park. I get to brag about this when I'm old. He's the one guy who didn't cheat. He definitely didn't cheat. I bet anything, the man did not cheat.
Do I say this to my son? No. He wouldn't believe me.
"I looked at Pedro's numbers," my son says. "He peaked for like three years right as the Steroid Era was going, then he battled injuries and never did as well. Fits the profile, right?"
"Nah, I don't see it," my father says. "He was skinnier than you are. Steroids make you bulk up. Pedro was like a buck-sixty soaking weight."
"I don't see it, either," I say. "I don't think he did."
"But you don't know?" my son asks me.
"Honestly? I don't know anything anymore."
We look at the 2004 banner again. I always thought that, for the rest of my life, I would look at that banner and think only good thoughts. Now, there's a mental asterisk that won't go away. I wish I could take a pill to shake it from my brain. I see 2004 and 2007 and think of Manny and Papi first and foremost. The modern-day Ruth and Gehrig. One of the great 1-2 punches in sports history. Were they cheating the whole time? Was Pedro cheating, too? That 2004 banner makes me think of these things now. I wish it didn't, but it does. This makes me sad. This makes me profoundly sad.
My son can read it in my face. I am sad. He can see it.
"That's OK, Dad," he says, rubbing my shoulder. "Everyone cheated back then
My son and I have flown back from California to spend the week in Boston. He is a little more than 6½ at this point. He has never set foot in Fenway Park before. The time is right. He likes baseball. He likes the Red Sox. He's a little sports encyclopedia. I have brainwashed him. He is just old enough to understand the significance of his first Fenway game, and more importantly, old enough that he'll be able to remember the experience decades later.
[+] Enlarge
<CITE>Harry How/Getty Images</CITE>Manny Ramirez was the best right-handed hitter of his generation. But now, we're not sure what that means.We bring my father with us. Three generations of the Simmons family taking in a Red Sox-Yankees game for the first time. This should be a wonderful moment. A signature moment, even.
We find our $1,500 seats in the lower boxes near third base. We are sitting in Best Buy's Section 17, which is right between Bob's Discount Furniture's Section 16 and Costco's Section 18. Every section has a sponsor now. The Green Monster is now called "The Pepsi Green Monster" and has a big Pepsi can painted on it. Ted Williams' special seat in right field is now sponsored by Muscle Milk. Even home plate is sponsored by Dunkin' Donuts. Has the logo on it and everything. That's just the way sports work now.
We settle into our seats. I point toward the championship banners over the first base side. They go in order: 1903, 1904, 1912, 1915, 1916, 1918, 2004, 2007. Ever since Boston won the World Series five years ago, I always imagined pointing to that 2004 banner and telling my little boy, "That's the team that changed everything."
So that's what I do. I point at the banner and tell him, "That's the team that changed everything."
"Isn't that the team that cheated?" he asks.
My father and I glance at each other. A few beats pass.
"Well, technically, no," I stammer. "I mean ..."
"I thought they had a whole bunch of steroid guys on that team," he says.
"Well, there have been some accusations, and yeah, some of the power numbers were a little suspicious, but ..."
"I'd do it again!" my dad yells happily.
"Dad!"
I shake my head at him. He shrugs. The thing is, he WOULD do it again. He wanted to see the Red Sox win the World Series in his lifetime. He worried about it constantly. So did I. So did every Red Sox fan. We worried about living a full life, then dying, without ever seeing them win. All of us knew people who fit that category. None of us wanted to end up in there.
All of us would have made a deal with the devil at the time. And maybe we did. We just didn't know it.
"Nothing was ever really proven," I tell my son, trying to keep up the good fight.
He ignores me and starts rattling through our 2004 lineup with creepy precision. He points out Nomar's remarkable 1999 and 2000 seasons, subsequent tendon injuries and how his career played out so blandly afterward for reasons that remain unclear. My Dad points out the Sox traded Nomar midway through the season. Technically, that debate shouldn't even matter. Score one for Dad.
"But what about Trot Nixon and Bill Mueller?" my son says. "They missed a bunch of games every year with injuries, put on weight when they were skinny guys, peaked quickly and were never seen again. Same for Mark Bellhorn, right? That's suspicious."
"Well," I say, "their names never came up in anything, so that's not really fair ..."
"And Kevin Millar, he had a few big homer years, then his power numbers went way down once the testing started."
"That's true, but it doesn't prove anything ..."
"And Johnny Damon, he got bigger and started hitting for more power even though he was a singles hitter, right?"
"Well ..."
[+] Enlarge
<CITE>Ezra Shaw/Getty Images</CITE>The events of that magical fall of 2004 are now in question."And what about Big Papi?" he wonders. "Played for Minnesota, didn't hit for power, came to the Red Sox, turned into the best slugger in the league, and as soon as they cracked down on steroids, he stopped hitting homers again. And he was friends with all the other Dominicans who were linked to PEDs. What about him?"
Silence. Nobody says anything.
Finally, my Dad steps in: "He had an inside-outside swing at Minnesota, when he came to Boston, we encouraged him to pull the ball, so ..."
"Come on, Gramps!" my son says. "That's dumb and you know it."
We glance out to the field. Big Papi is one of Boston's coaches now. After hitting 54 homers in 2006, his career was over within four years. Now he's just a fat guy in his early 40s coaching first base. You would never guess this was the same guy who carried us in 2004, the guy who fueled the Greatest Comeback Ever, the guy who helped convince an entire fan base that, yes, we could believe.
"And what about Manny?" my son asks. "He tested positive for performance enhancers in 2009 with the Dodgers. How do you know he wasn't using that whole time?"
"Well, we don't," I say. "But that was kind of a fluke -- he had a doctor in Florida who prescribed him a banned substance, and ..."
"Come on, Dad, I read your Red Sox book. You said that at least you knew Manny couldn't have ever used steroids because he was too dumb to figure out how to stick to a cycle. Then he tested positive. You were, like, his biggest fan. You wrote a big piece after he got traded that was so long it took me a week to read."
"I told him not to write that column," my dad says. "Manny needed to go. He was a selfish jerk. Your father had blinders on ..."
"Come on, that's not fair," I say. "I loved the guy. He was on the team for more than eight years. He helped us end the curse. He made our lives as Red Sox fans more fun. He was like family. I wasn't gonna dump the guy from my life after everything he did just because his agent poisoned him against the team."
"But you defended him and said he was a good guy at heart," my son says. "And then he cheated, right? So how does that make him a good guy?"
I take a deep breath.
"It doesn't make him a good guy," I say. "You don't understand what it was like to follow baseball before you were born. There was a strike in 1994, and the World Series was canceled. Everyone hated baseball. Then McGwire and Sosa started hitting homers, and the balls started flying out of the park, and it was so much fun that everyone looked the other way. We didn't care that these guys were practically busting out of their skin or growing second foreheads. We really didn't. All the cheating made baseball more fun to watch. We were in denial. It was weird.
"Then, Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season, and that was like the turning point. We realized that things had gone too far. We blamed him for cheating and looked the other way with dozens of other guys who were doing the same thing. Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996; we didn't care. Bret Boone had 141 RBI in a season, we didn't care. Big Papi went from 10 homers to 41 in four seasons; we didn't care. Clemens was washed up and could suddenly throw 98 and win Cy Youngs again; we didn't care. Erig Gagne saved 84 straight games and threw 120 miles an hour; we didn't care. Good players started blowing out tendons that nobody had never heard of; we didn't care. Pitchers blew out elbow tendons and shoulder ligaments routinely; we didn't care. This was the deal. They cheated; we pretended they didn't. It's really hard to explain unless you were there."
My son tries to soak everything in. That's lot to process for a 6-year-old.
Finally ...
"So when the Red Sox won in 2004, did you know some of the guys might have been cheating?" he asks.
"At the time?" I answer. "No. Either we were in total denial, or we just didn't care."
"I'd do it again!" my dad yells happily, getting another withering glare from me.
"You have to understand," I say. "EVERYONE cheated back then. You know how I drive 80 on the highway even though all the signs say to go 55? That's how everyone thought back then -- the signs said one thing, but everyone did the other. There were so many people cheating that, competitively, you almost had to cheat to keep up with everyone else."
"So why didn't the people in charge get everyone to stop cheating?" my son asks.
"I wish I knew. The players' union didn't care, the commissioner's office didn't care, nobody cared. Until it was too late."
"So you won the World Series twice because of Manny and Papi," my son says, "but they were cheating the whole time and so were some of their teammates? Dad, your whole book was about how you could die in peace because they won in 2004. If they cheated to win, does that make what happened OK?"
The question hangs in the air. And hangs. And hangs.
"I don't know," I finally answer. "I still haven't figured that part out yet. Again, you don't understand what it was like. Everyone was cheating, so the playing field was kind of even, as weird as that sounds. You can't imagine how depressing it was to be a Red Sox fan at the time. Things always went wrong. We hadn't won in 86 years. We were the whipping boy of the Yankees. We always expected the worst to happen, mainly because the worst always did. That 2004 title made life easier for everyone. We could just follow the team without all the other negative crap. Does that make sense?
"I guess," he nods. "But Manny was your favorite hitter on that team. And he tested positive. Is he still your favorite hitter?"
"Yes and no," I say. "No, because he cheated. Yes, because, whether he was cheating or not, I can't forget watching him hit baseballs on a daily basis. I just can't. You should have seen him. Perfect swing, perfect balance, perfect everything. He was a hitting savant. That's the funny thing: he didn't NEED to cheat. The guy was put on the earth to hit.
"But he did cheat," my son says.
"He did. Yes. He did."
"So he's not your favorite player from that team now?"
"He never was; Pedro was. Manny was my favorite hitter. I loved Pedro the most."
I am dreading the next question. I am dreading it. I do not want him to ask it. I know it's coming.
"Did Pedro cheat?"
Silence.
I take a deep breath. So does my father. You can't describe in a few tidy sentences, off the cuff, what it was like to watch Pedro Martinez pitch in 1999 and 2000. To paraphrase Joe Mantegna in "Searching For Bobby Fischer," Pedro was better at pitching than you or I will ever be at anything. He had swagger. He had four A-plus pitches. He had everything. He spurred me to buy tickets from scalpers when I was broke. I would do it again. I watched Pedro Martinez pitch at his apex at Fenway Park. I get to brag about this when I'm old. He's the one guy who didn't cheat. He definitely didn't cheat. I bet anything, the man did not cheat.
Do I say this to my son? No. He wouldn't believe me.
"I looked at Pedro's numbers," my son says. "He peaked for like three years right as the Steroid Era was going, then he battled injuries and never did as well. Fits the profile, right?"
"Nah, I don't see it," my father says. "He was skinnier than you are. Steroids make you bulk up. Pedro was like a buck-sixty soaking weight."
"I don't see it, either," I say. "I don't think he did."
"But you don't know?" my son asks me.
"Honestly? I don't know anything anymore."
We look at the 2004 banner again. I always thought that, for the rest of my life, I would look at that banner and think only good thoughts. Now, there's a mental asterisk that won't go away. I wish I could take a pill to shake it from my brain. I see 2004 and 2007 and think of Manny and Papi first and foremost. The modern-day Ruth and Gehrig. One of the great 1-2 punches in sports history. Were they cheating the whole time? Was Pedro cheating, too? That 2004 banner makes me think of these things now. I wish it didn't, but it does. This makes me sad. This makes me profoundly sad.
My son can read it in my face. I am sad. He can see it.
"That's OK, Dad," he says, rubbing my shoulder. "Everyone cheated back then
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Bill Plashacke is a friggin whiny queer
I saw this earlier. The way this guy has jumped the gun on this is beyond just sour grapes, it's unprofessional. When you editorialize with half the facts, or less, they call you Fox News and your credibility is zero.
Look, maybe he's right--and really, for his sake, he better be--maybe Manny is juicing. But this story isn't even fully out there yet and he wants to string the guy up by his dreads and beat him like a pinata. Which is fine, if you're a jilted fan or whatever, but if it comes out that Manny was taking Viagra or getting a shot to cure the clap or whatever that has nothing to do with baseball, it's hard to see how you can have any journalistic respect for Plashcke.
Sadly, though, this is LA where most sports reporters aren't held accountable for anything so he'll get away with it no matter what happens.
What's funny, too, is that he obviously doesn't understand the Dodger fan base at all.
I'm nowhere close to a Dodger fan, I don't follow them at all, but I've lived in this town long enough to know that the hardcore are half Mexican/Latino and half native (and native-ish) Angelenos all of whom will welcome this guy back with open arms in a second if it's anything but juice. Half of them may even welcome him back if it was.
I saw this earlier. The way this guy has jumped the gun on this is beyond just sour grapes, it's unprofessional. When you editorialize with half the facts, or less, they call you Fox News and your credibility is zero.
Look, maybe he's right--and really, for his sake, he better be--maybe Manny is juicing. But this story isn't even fully out there yet and he wants to string the guy up by his dreads and beat him like a pinata. Which is fine, if you're a jilted fan or whatever, but if it comes out that Manny was taking Viagra or getting a shot to cure the clap or whatever that has nothing to do with baseball, it's hard to see how you can have any journalistic respect for Plashcke.
Sadly, though, this is LA where most sports reporters aren't held accountable for anything so he'll get away with it no matter what happens.
What's funny, too, is that he obviously doesn't understand the Dodger fan base at all.
I'm nowhere close to a Dodger fan, I don't follow them at all, but I've lived in this town long enough to know that the hardcore are half Mexican/Latino and half native (and native-ish) Angelenos all of whom will welcome this guy back with open arms in a second if it's anything but juice. Half of them may even welcome him back if it was.
CAPital
Pretty much a regular
will welcome this guy back with open arms in a second if it's anything but juice. Half of them may even welcome him back if it was.
well dodger fans will get an opportunity to show their support for him because If it was indeed hCG that led to his failed test, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he has juiced before.
No doubt at all.
hCG is injected with an insulin pin either during a cycle or post cycle and restarts your natural test production. I have never heard of anyone ManRam's age using hCG for anything other than to recover from a cycle. If he wanted a boner that bad he could have popped some cialis or viagra, definitely not injecting yourself several times with an insulin pin lol.
well dodger fans will get an opportunity to show their support for him because If it was indeed hCG that led to his failed test, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he has juiced before.
No doubt at all.
hCG is injected with an insulin pin either during a cycle or post cycle and restarts your natural test production. I have never heard of anyone ManRam's age using hCG for anything other than to recover from a cycle. If he wanted a boner that bad he could have popped some cialis or viagra, definitely not injecting yourself several times with an insulin pin lol.
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
more than half. above 90%. dodger fans don't give a fuck. after 20 years dodger baseball is finally relevant again and its because of manny.
and splashme's credibility is less than zero. dude was just on PMS (radio show) last week claiming laker fans don't have love for Phil and that kobe is gonna go to italy if the lakers win it all this year, the guy is a straight up clown.
and splashme's credibility is less than zero. dude was just on PMS (radio show) last week claiming laker fans don't have love for Phil and that kobe is gonna go to italy if the lakers win it all this year, the guy is a straight up clown.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
hCG is injected with an insulin pin either during a cycle or post cycle and restarts your natural test production. I have never heard of anyone ManRam's age using hCG for anything other than to recover from a cycle. If he wanted a boner that bad he could have popped some cialis or viagra, definitely not injecting yourself several times with an insulin pin lol.
Good point. The key will be this and what the 'prescription' was. Which is where it gets sticky because people do have a right to privacy and there's doctor/patient privilege.
But if it is something that's injected, whatever it is, if it's a prescription--meaning Manny went and got it and then shot it into himself--then it becomes far easier to believe he's dosing.
Because it's a big jump to get to sticking needles into yourself, but once you cross that line, it's sort of a whole new world. And not in a good way.
Good point. The key will be this and what the 'prescription' was. Which is where it gets sticky because people do have a right to privacy and there's doctor/patient privilege.
But if it is something that's injected, whatever it is, if it's a prescription--meaning Manny went and got it and then shot it into himself--then it becomes far easier to believe he's dosing.
Because it's a big jump to get to sticking needles into yourself, but once you cross that line, it's sort of a whole new world. And not in a good way.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
more than half. above 90%. dodger fans don't give a fuck. after 20 years dodger baseball is finally relevant again and its because of manny.
Joe loves validation. Thanks, SJ.
Joe loves validation. Thanks, SJ.
wreck
Pretty much a regular
I can only assume that Dodgers fans only give a fuck about winning. If they can win the Division and play for the Pennant then they won't care at all. They'll still wear their goofy dreadlock wigs and cheer Manny.
I'm just glad I got to see him play here in DC last year for that series. It just makes me shake my head when reporters jump off of cliffs when news like this comes out. Every seems to be climbing over each other to make a broad/outlandish statement that attempts to sum up every angle and provides a definitive conclusion when the story just fucking broke. it's annoying to say the least.
Satyr
Paster of Muppets
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4149518&categoryid=2521705
Bill Platschke all over Manny.
Listen to this.
"he was equal to Kobe Bryant".
Quinn: HCG not necessarily a smoking gun
Bill Platschke all over Manny.
Listen to this.
"he was equal to Kobe Bryant".
Quinn: HCG not necessarily a smoking gun
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
I can only assume that Dodgers fans only give a fuck about winning.
Sort of. Dodger fans, in my opinion, are the closest thing this town has to a true fan. Now, that sort of sucks to say, because there are true, hardcore Laker fans here, and both USC and UCLA have their die-hards. But the Lakers have priced actual fans out of the building for the most part and generally L.A. is a very fickle town of transplants.
But if you had to pick a team that owns the town, if you were forced to do it, I think this is a Dodger town. And maybe the town is actually big enough to split between the Dodgers and the Lakers, but I think if the Dodgers won it all you'd see a surprising amout of people coming out of the woodwork, a lot of them actual fans that you just never see because they're either hiding in their homes watching on TV or you just never make your way up to Dodger stadium.
But LA, overall, is a bad sports town, partially because of the transplants who have their own teams, but also because here it's far more of an entertainment option than a way of life. So winning is important, but not because the town wants wins, but because they want to have fun and be seen having fun at the games--which only happens if teams win.
Sort of. Dodger fans, in my opinion, are the closest thing this town has to a true fan. Now, that sort of sucks to say, because there are true, hardcore Laker fans here, and both USC and UCLA have their die-hards. But the Lakers have priced actual fans out of the building for the most part and generally L.A. is a very fickle town of transplants.
But if you had to pick a team that owns the town, if you were forced to do it, I think this is a Dodger town. And maybe the town is actually big enough to split between the Dodgers and the Lakers, but I think if the Dodgers won it all you'd see a surprising amout of people coming out of the woodwork, a lot of them actual fans that you just never see because they're either hiding in their homes watching on TV or you just never make your way up to Dodger stadium.
But LA, overall, is a bad sports town, partially because of the transplants who have their own teams, but also because here it's far more of an entertainment option than a way of life. So winning is important, but not because the town wants wins, but because they want to have fun and be seen having fun at the games--which only happens if teams win.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Oh, and speaking of LA talk radio--which is generally average-to-below average--one of the shows has had the greatest nickname for Manny's replacement that I've heard in a long time.
They call Juan Pierre "Slappy McPopup." It's fantastic.
I like it so much I actually call Capt. Slap this all the time, he just doesn't know it.
They call Juan Pierre "Slappy McPopup." It's fantastic.
I like it so much I actually call Capt. Slap this all the time, he just doesn't know it.
mook
Mayor of Mayfair
either does Nook Logan, but.......
A wise man once said "legailize it", who gives a fuck anymore. everyone is juicing. who cares. if you think otherwise you are a complete fucking moron.
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