Kevin Durant

braves

braves

Pretty much a regular
We killed Lebron for years.

Does this guy has what is takes to lead a team to a title?
 
gynecologist said:
Westbrook doesn't pass him the ball..
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but the otherside of the argument would be that do you think Kobe or Jordan would let Westbrook do what he does...So the question isn't from skill standpoint, but from the other side of the spectrum does winning a title and being the best consume KD like it did Jordan and KObe and it seems like Lebron now?
 
Dude is a passive superstar, he'll never reach the heights of Kobe, MJ or LBJ until he becomes aggressive and grows some balls. He should be in Russel's grill demanding he pass the rock but he all in the MVP speech telling him not to change his game and he loves him.

Would help if mama put some meat on them bones as well.
 
emkee said:
Dude is a passive superstar, he'll never reach the heights of Kobe, MJ or LBJ until he becomes aggressive and grows some balls. He should be in Russel's grill demanding he pass the rock but he all in the MVP speech telling him not to change his game and he loves him.

Would help if mama put some meat on them bones as well.
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exactly what I think
 
Agree with everything written so far. Demand the damn ball. You think Michael Jordan would have stood for Scottie Pippen taking the shots that Westbrook takes? Honest answer for OKC is they need to dish Westbrook, honestly, get a strong complete supporting cast.....sucks to say but its true.
 
Spurs bench outscored OKC 51-5 tonight.

Thabo Sefolosha has regressed in his development and the pick traded for him turned into Taj Gibson.

He will take them to a Title when OKC gives him enough pieces and should go after Shaun Livingston if they have the cap space.
 
How come he has no post game
?

I don't understand why he doesn't get closer to basket?
 
He needs to be separated from Westbrook. It's the only way he will grow as a player. A couple more years and it might be too late. Westbrook is a freak of an athlete but Durant too often takes a back seat to him and that just cannot happen. It's bad for okc. It's bad for Durant and it's downright bad for the nba. To me it just looked like Durant wore down from the season. If you look at how poor his free throw shooting was this season, you will see that he was not as focused as previous seasons....most likely due to fatigue and just all the minutes catching up to him. Thoughout the season him and Westbrook did the bulk of the work
 
braves said:
but the otherside of the argument would be that do you think Kobe or Jordan would let Westbrook do what he does...So the question isn't from skill standpoint, but from the other side of the spectrum does winning a title and being the best consume KD like it did Jordan and KObe and it seems like Lebron now?
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If Kobe or Jordan ever played with Westbrook they would either a) put him in his place from the get go to make him a pass first pg or b) demand for him to be traded. You can't just demand the ball. Westbrook HAS TO make others around him better.

yes his stats are there... The points, the assists and the boards. But he does not make the game easier for his team mates where they have the confidence in crunch time. And then Westbrook thinks that he should put the team on his back because he knows it's possible but he needs to realize that almost every team is wishing he does that.
 
If I'm Oklahoma, I'm trading KD and not RW. Both just as valuable, but they get a lot more for KD.
 
You can't force someone to be aggressive.
I'm 99% sure that if they trade RW, Durant will take a backseat in many games to Reggie Jackson.

I also think that he has very good understanding with RW and that they complete each other. RW is a relentless hustle player that will always give 120% of himself and has amazing drive for the basketball.

KD is just the ultimate shooter that can shoot from every range.

As far as bringing a true PG, not sure I agree. RW is good with the ball in his hand. Even if you bring Chris Paul to this team, he would be expected just to carry the ball across half court line and pass it to RW or KD.

What they need is simply better bench. I would trade Adams who's stocks should have risen after this season for a good three point shooter that can at least slightly defend.

The ideal player for Oklahoma would be George Hill. Great defender, can shoot three pointers, can play PG, but also proven that he can pass the ball to SG or SF (Stephenson or George) and just wait on three point line for an open three pointer.

For him I would give up even Reggie Jackson (anyone other than Ibaka, RW and KD).
 
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divol said:
You can't force someone to be aggressive.
I'm 99% sure that if they trade RW, Durant will take a backseat in many games to Reggie Jackson.

I also think that he has very good understanding with RW and that they complete each other. RW is a relentless hustle player that will always give 120% of himself and has amazing drive for the basketball.

KD is just the ultimate shooter that can shoot from every range.

As far as bringing a true PG, not sure I agree. RW is good with the ball in his hand. Even if you bring Chris Paul to this team, he would be expected just to carry the ball across half court line and pass it to RW or KD.

What they need is simply better bench. I would trade Adams who's stocks should have risen after this season for a good three point shooter that can at least slightly defend.

The ideal player for Oklahoma would be George Hill. Great defender, can shoot three pointers, can play PG, but also proven that he can pass the ball to SG or SF (Stephenson or George) and just wait on three point line for an open three pointer.

For him I would give up even Reggie Jackson (anyone other than Ibaka, RW and KD).
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Trading Adams is just stupid, dude has so much upside. Main reason they lost is that pitiful bench minus Adams and Scott Brooks.

Durant could work with Westbrook but they need a good coach to develop their game and overall chemistry.
 
seems most are more in the "get rid of westbrook and KD will win"
why cant you keep both and build a support around them?

Shaq and Kobe didn't like each other as much but won?
MJ and Pippen had their differences but on the court they understood what needed to be done?
Oh but then again those guys also had Phil Jackson as their coach so why can't we not mention perhaps Brooks has to go?

Also Durant is 25.....yes 25 give me a fucking break. Lebron didn't get his title until 27.
In regards to meat on the bones, that's really an overrated concept, there are big dudes who don't know how to use their body and get schooled, then there are small dudes that know how to play the game smart. Having meat on your bones is going to just make you slower in a fast pace game.

IMO, get rid of Brooks and get a better bench, as someone stated the bench was outscored 51-5
 
Dead serious. I know that this forum doesn't like him, but I think he is a good starter for a contender
 
Russ is best player on Okc. Wreaks havoc both ways. He shoulda gone to hole every posession.
 
that Stephenson/Durant GIF is hysterical. top 5 GIF I've ever seen. ty Toronto Mike for posting it.
 
Westbrook really should be a 2 guard. But if they get another PG their back court will be too small imo
 
RW is an absolute freak....stupid to get rid if him. Durant has shortcomings as well......RW isn't his problem. Thunder don't get better by losing RW..

As for thrashing KD, he happens to be playing at a time when the meat seem to be a dynasty and the Spurs are the Spurs...

I alo agree with Hunt's posts..

the coach sucks too
 
Westbrook or Brooks is gone IMO. I personally think brooks is at fault. They need a new voice
 
KD played out of his mind this season. He needs more help and that means he needs a point guard that will make his life easier. And possibly implement a post up game this offseason.
 
nbafan88 said:
Westbrook really should be a 2 guard. But if they get another PG their back court will be too small imo
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Enlighten me why he should be a 2? He's one of the top 3 pg's in the league imo. Might not have the best vision, but has sick handles, fearless, great defender, gets to the hoop when and if he wants too and avg 3 pt shooter..not a 2 guard shooter imo.
 
kd is 1 dimensional..all offense, if his shots don't drop so does his confidence..yet he still chucks them up..russ should have gone t the hoop everytime those last few minutes..brooks is a dumbfuck.
 
HUNT said:
kd is 1 dimensional..all offense, if his shots don't drop so does his confidence..yet he still chucks them up..russ should have gone t the hoop everytime those last few minutes..brooks is a dumbfuck.
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This
 
Westbrook is a polarizing players to say the least. Some see genius in his game, some see lunacy. Durant manages to take plenty of shots, perhaps just a few less then normal in the last possessions of the game. But to say he's passive offensively b/c he doesn't create conflict with the only other player on his team capable of winning games? I disagree. They have been legit contenders and have enjoyed more success then most teams do along the way. How many points do you guys want Durant to score anyways?
Westbrook's shot attempt total is a little skewed by his offensive rebounding numbers too. He has a lot of tip and put backs....as a PG. I don't think the answer is to break up two of the best four players in the world. If OKC beat SAS last week, there was gonna be a thread made by Killa about how Westbrook was a top 4 player. At first I had a problem with him saying he was ahead of Paul. But Westbrook presents immeasurable problems for teams. Who do you have guard this guy? His box scores look like 34/7/6/8/6 that's points rebounds assists steals and turnovers. How many players have that kind potential, with still having that kinda potential for improvement if you just tighten up the turnovers and take one or two less bad shots per game? He's an incredible talent, the likes of which the NBA has nobody else who can match him. You guys are critical of Durant for not getting in his face about the shots he takes? They're young superstars who have a decade of top basketball ahead of them if they choose. I don't know what else you can ask for really.
 
I don't know how you can argue that RW isn't the best PG in the game. I don't know if he is Top 4 player, since it's hard to compare, but he is so much better than Paul, Rondo, Rose and all the other elite point guards and I would add and say that he is the best not only overall, but on each side of the floor as well.

He is amazing defender that rarely takes a night off. He steals a lot, but also provides excellent pressure and it's very hard to move the ball against the Thunder, knowing that he shuts down passing lanes and ready to go off at any moment and in 90% of the time, his steals becomes easy two points on the other end.

On offense he isn't a pure shooter, but he can get hot and no wonder that Pop gave his players directions to close RW from three point range.

While he isn't a pure shooter, he can be deadly in mid range, when he gets hot and with his elevation, he is unstoppable and on top of that, it's very hard to keep him from going to the hoop. He is so strong and quick, it's simply amazing.

Yes, he lacks as far as decision making goes, but he is still young and he has so much else going in his favor, that it's just a very small part of his game that shouldn't overshadow all his good things.
 
IvyinBarondise said:
do you mean literally...as in they both made their conference finals?

Pacers had 0% chance of winning a title. OKC was a legitimate contender for it.
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really dude?
you asked for a contender and if you don't think the Pacers were based on their conference you are an idiot.
After the Pacers who else in the East would actually not get swept in the Finals?
Sure the Heat is the class of the East but for you to say 0% chance is very naive.
Thunder nearly got knocked out by the Grizz for fuck sakes.

George Hill can't even do shit for a winning team.
if he was on the Heat what is he even going to do? He's going to play the same role that Chalmers does...another body on the court just for the sake of 5 v 5
 
Toronto_Mike said:
really dude?
you asked for a contender and if you don't think the Pacers were based on their conference you are an idiot.
After the Pacers who else in the East would actually not get swept in the Finals?
Sure the Heat is the class of the East but for you to say 0% chance is very naive.
Thunder nearly got knocked out by the Grizz for fuck sakes.

George Hill can't even do shit for a winning team.



if he was on the Heat what is he even going to do? He's going to play the same role that Chalmers does...another body on the court just for the sake of 5 v 5
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Nobody disputes that OKC was a viable title threat. Nobody. Many people thought Memphis was a contender.
Indiana was minutes from getting knocked out from a sub .500 team man, you're a fucking idiot to bring up Memphis. The Pacers had zero chance to beat Miami. Zero. They had zero chance of beating whoever came out of the west. The conference championship were a joke in the East.
 
IvyinBarondise said:
Westbrook is a polarizing players to say the least. Some see genius in his game, some see lunacy. Durant manages to take plenty of shots, perhaps just a few less then normal in the last possessions of the game. But to say he's passive offensively b/c he doesn't create conflict with the only other player on his team capable of winning games? I disagree. They have been legit contenders and have enjoyed more success then most teams do along the way. How many points do you guys want Durant to score anyways?
Westbrook's shot attempt total is a little skewed by his offensive rebounding numbers too. He has a lot of tip and put backs....as a PG. I don't think the answer is to break up two of the best four players in the world. If OKC beat SAS last week, there was gonna be a thread made by Killa about how Westbrook was a top 4 player. At first I had a problem with him saying he was ahead of Paul. But Westbrook presents immeasurable problems for teams. Who do you have guard this guy? His box scores look like 34/7/6/8/6 that's points rebounds assists steals and turnovers. How many players have that kind potential, with still having that kinda potential for improvement if you just tighten up the turnovers and take one or two less bad shots per game? He's an incredible talent, the likes of which the NBA has nobody else who can match him. You guys are critical of Durant for not getting in his face about the shots he takes? They're young superstars who have a decade of top basketball ahead of them if they choose. I don't know what else you can ask for really.
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You need to stop looking at stats and spouting about it- you do it in all your comments. I am not sure if you watch the games but from your comments I don't believe you really understand the IQ of the game. I would think you would as you supposedly follow one of the smarter teams in the league. Talent wise RW is the best PG in the league hands down - Decision making - piss poor. This can't be measured in a box score -

You should go back and watch the game again. Games aren't won in the last minute though fanboys want to believe that. RW carried his team in spurts but did more harm than good because of it. The rest of the team became stagnant as they knew he would bring the ball up and chuck it - so what if he goes after the rebound and tips it in. Should not have been taken those shots anyways. PG is about running your team and getting your team the best opportunities - he doesn't do that.
I don't believe either should be traded. RW needs some coaching and the coach needs some creativity to design plays to get KD and RW open for shots
 
I watched every minute of that series man...every minute. I understand his value very well. You're right, he's not a true PG... but the game is evolving and YOUR comments make me wonder if you could every comprehend that. Westbrook's value as a new-age sort of PG who can play multiple positions and has multiple talents puts him WAY ahead of the curve. I posted his box score for a very simple reason. There are no other PGs in the NBA who are capable of putting up that line.

I do agree, he needs a little reigning in. That should come with age, who knows. I agree completely that brooks isn't utilizing the strength of his team as much as he should be and OKC got COMPLETELY out coached in the WCF.

But "so what if he gets the rebound and tips it in"??? Really??? Cmon man lol
He was the heart and soul of that team, he doesn't get tired, and he creates the worst one on one mismatches in the NBA.
 
by your response you don't get it.

I understand completely what his value is and what he offers to a team. My point is his lack of basketball iq is going to hurt his team. As far as him getting the rebound and tipping it in - how many times does he Not do that off of a bad shot or bad decision? It basically becomes a turnover.

Again my point is his basketball IQ not his skill - not his heart and soul, not his matchups, his poor decision making and if you are going to be the heart and soul of the team you need to have some basketball IQ - i hope someday he puts it all together
 
The most frustrating thing about Westbrook is that he knows what he's supposed to do and what his role is (getting others involved, not taking as many shots when he's not 'on', etc)....he just seems to forget that once the game starts. If you listen to any of his post-game comments, he really does understand his role....but then, once that ball tips, it's as if his brain shuts off and he just plays out of control and does everything he shouldn't be doing. Maybe he can take some Adderall or some other drug that will keep him focused during the games, because again, he does know what he's supposed to do.
 
TheCashMan said:
by your response you don't get it.

I understand completely what his value is and what he offers to a team. My point is his lack of basketball iq is going to hurt his team. As far as him getting the rebound and tipping it in - how many times does he Not do that off of a bad shot or bad decision? It basically becomes a turnover.

Again my point is his basketball IQ not his skill - not his heart and soul, not his matchups, his poor decision making and if you are going to be the heart and soul of the team you need to have some basketball IQ - i hope someday he puts it all together
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I get what you're saying, but I think you're being way too hard on him. He's VERY young. You don't learn this game overnight. He has terrific passing skills, terrific offensive skills, and an incredible athletic ability. Every year, he'll develop more and more seasoning and understanding.

I disagree about IQ. The best analogy I can give is straight from Sorkin and "The West Wing"...

You've got two ball players, one has perfect running form and makes it to first base at the same time as some guy with horrible form. Who do you wanna coach?
You wanna coach the guy with horrible form b/c when you teach him how to run...he will crush the other guy.

Give Westbrook time, he has incredible instincts. He knows where to be on the court, he knows where his players are on the court, and terrific passing ability. He's improving every year. A little more time and experience and he'll destroy the ball player with perfect form that tied him down the first baseline this season.
 
But I mean, lets put this in perspective... there are a lot of true PGs that are very strong mentally and know how to run an offense. Jeremy Lin comes to mind. Who would you rather want on your team?
 
IvyinBarondise said:
I get what you're saying, but I think you're being way too hard on him. He's VERY young. You don't learn this game overnight. He has terrific passing skills, terrific offensive skills, and an incredible athletic ability. Every year, he'll develop more and more seasoning and understanding.

I disagree about IQ. The best analogy I can give is straight from Sorkin and "The West Wing"...

You've got two ball players, one has perfect running form and makes it to first base at the same time as some guy with horrible form. Who do you wanna coach?
You wanna coach the guy with horrible form b/c when you teach him how to run...he will crush the other guy.

Give Westbrook time, he has incredible instincts. He knows where to be on the court, he knows where his players are on the court, and terrific passing ability. He's improving every year. A little more time and experience and he'll destroy the ball player with perfect form that tied him down the first baseline this season.
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We will have to agree to disagree on the IQ part as I am very adamant about it and have been all year about many players.
I would take a young RW any day of the week - I think he has the most talent of any pg in the league and like you said with some reigning in/coaching he can be on the next level.

And in your other post about Lin, i am really not a fan of his. I think a better comparison is cousins from the Kings - both guys have top talent, young and have their own issues - I would take either one on my team and try to coach them up but the leash wouldn't be long- meaning if i don't see improvement or at least a true effort to improve there is no better time to trade. You could get a lot of assets to build a good team around KD but i wouldn't trade him now.

Again i think their 2 biggest deficiencies were the bench and coaching.
 
TheCashMan said:
We will have to agree to disagree on the IQ part as I am very adamant about it and have been all year about many players.
I would take a young RW any day of the week - I think he has the most talent of any pg in the league and like you said with some reigning in/coaching he can be on the next level.

And in your other post about Lin, i am really not a fan of his. I think a better comparison is cousins from the Kings - both guys have top talent, young and have their own issues - I would take either one on my team and try to coach them up but the leash wouldn't be long- meaning if i don't see improvement or at least a true effort to improve there is no better time to trade. You could get a lot of assets to build a good team around KD but i wouldn't trade him now.

Again i think their 2 biggest deficiencies were the bench and coaching.
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Cousins isn't a PG, that's a horrible comparison for the discussion about PGs. Lin was brought up because he's a PG who Ivy considered strong mentally. I think you missed his point a bit. He wasn't comparing the two, he was giving a player who is 'contrasting' and asking which one you would rather have....a completely out of control chucker running your team, or a real PG who gets everyone involved and thinks about scoring secondarily.
 
Lareux said:
Cousins isn't a PG, that's a horrible comparison for the discussion about PGs. Lin was brought up because he's a PG who Ivy considered strong mentally. I think you missed his point a bit. He wasn't comparing the two, he was giving a player who is 'contrasting' and asking which one you would rather have....a completely out of control chucker running your team, or a real PG who gets everyone involved and thinks about scoring secondarily.
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well if that was what he was doing then yes i did miss it. I went to the "issues" part.

so for the Lin comparison - i said above a few times I would take RW but the leash would be short. Why continue with something that doesn't work?
If he is saying would you swap out lin for RW with the way the team is structured now - no


I still think you move him to the 2 spot and he becomes their "james harden". that team has a true pg and Harden gets plenty of touches and he has a high iq and the rest of the team gets many touches as well. The plus side for okc is RW can defend all pg's and some 2's
 
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