Eastern Conference Finals Thread
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nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
Be careful divol thinks Miami got all the 50/50 calls. The officiating love was mostly for Indy. Taking Lebron out of the game for any length of time kills Miami. Especially with dwane wade playing the way he is.
Miami did get most of the 50/50 loose balls though. That's totally different.
Miami did get most of the 50/50 loose balls though. That's totally different.
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
well oh my
<tbody>
[TD="colspan: 5"]Fri. May 24 Created: May 24, 2013 10:59am ET [/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Game[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Official 1[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Official 2[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Official 3[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Alternate[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Indiana @ Miami[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Scott Foster[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Bill Kennedy[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Tom Washington[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]John Goble[/TD]
</tbody>
<tbody>
[TD="colspan: 5"]Fri. May 24 Created: May 24, 2013 10:59am ET [/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Game[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Official 1[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Official 2[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Official 3[/TD]
[TD="class: tableTitle"]Alternate[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Indiana @ Miami[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Scott Foster[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Bill Kennedy[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]Tom Washington[/TD]
[TD="class: tableRowOdd"]John Goble[/TD]
</tbody>
Carolina Guy
Pretty much a regular
Logic the last few seasons in a Heat series is play the dog in Game 1 and play the Fav in Game 2. Heat usually win Game 2 by a wide margin.
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
I think that Heat won't win by 6 - 10 points.
I think that it either will be Pacers win or last second shot loss (by 2 - 3 points) or Heat blowout by 15+ points.
I believe that first scenario is more likely, but I would be really surprised if the final result will be 1 - 2 points from the spread one way or another...
I think that it either will be Pacers win or last second shot loss (by 2 - 3 points) or Heat blowout by 15+ points.
I believe that first scenario is more likely, but I would be really surprised if the final result will be 1 - 2 points from the spread one way or another...
consilience
Pretty much a regular
Where did you get +900?
emkee
The Truth Is Out There
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
Indy did the same thing they did in their two wins in regular season, shot 40%+ from three point line.
Heat obviously can win this series, but in my eyes, Pacers are just the better team (or the team with better match ups to be more accurate) and it's their series to lose...
Heat obviously can win this series, but in my eyes, Pacers are just the better team (or the team with better match ups to be more accurate) and it's their series to lose...
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Indiana doing a Golden State. Lose game 1 in OT when they should have won, win game 2.
Like GS, they'll lose in 6.
Like GS, they'll lose in 6.
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
BC, you may be right, but I don't think you can compare the two series.
SAS were the better team in that series and Pacers are the better team in this one.
If anything, I feel that Heat are the GSW. They, like the Warriors, built on one superstar and Pacers play a true basketball team like the Spurs.
Basically, Heat need one of the three things to happen - LeBron taking his game to yet another level (something that I just can't see how he can - but he proven that he has no limit to his game), to have a crazy shooting day from three point line - against best perimeter defense in the league and third, to have refs doing the job for them and getting Pacers in to foul trouble.
Heat (LeBron) live on passes - they stretch the floor and when they do that, they got two of the best penetrators in the league to exploit on that and punish from behind the line.
Pacers close those passing lanes. Not everything results in turnovers by the Heat (though a lot is). Kicked balls, Heat players not even trying to pass the hard pass - all results of Pacers defense.
Hibbert in the paint is a huge force that Heat can't find the answer to him. They try to bate him, to go after Bosh, but Pacers will live with Bosh shooting three pointers and mid range jumpers.
Even if he shoots 25 points with 50% from the field, if the rest of Pacers game plan, goes right, they can live with that.
SAS were the better team in that series and Pacers are the better team in this one.
If anything, I feel that Heat are the GSW. They, like the Warriors, built on one superstar and Pacers play a true basketball team like the Spurs.
Basically, Heat need one of the three things to happen - LeBron taking his game to yet another level (something that I just can't see how he can - but he proven that he has no limit to his game), to have a crazy shooting day from three point line - against best perimeter defense in the league and third, to have refs doing the job for them and getting Pacers in to foul trouble.
Heat (LeBron) live on passes - they stretch the floor and when they do that, they got two of the best penetrators in the league to exploit on that and punish from behind the line.
Pacers close those passing lanes. Not everything results in turnovers by the Heat (though a lot is). Kicked balls, Heat players not even trying to pass the hard pass - all results of Pacers defense.
Hibbert in the paint is a huge force that Heat can't find the answer to him. They try to bate him, to go after Bosh, but Pacers will live with Bosh shooting three pointers and mid range jumpers.
Even if he shoots 25 points with 50% from the field, if the rest of Pacers game plan, goes right, they can live with that.
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
sometimes he's just too unselfish...
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Pacers have no chance. Heat are a lockity lock lock to win it all.
Also, always remember my attitude towards the Heat is what it is towards the Yankees. Meaning, you can spend less time on your answering back to my prognostications on this series.
More seriously, I think Indy is still a year away from knocking them over. Like OKC last year, inexperience will kill them this time round. It already has with their coaching in Game 1.
Agree completely this should go down almost exactly like SAS-GS. Liked IND last game but love the Heat this game. Short line, not really a huge public play, a great bounceback spot for them.
Forget the matchups for a sec, I look at it this way. IND has a good starting 5 but their bench still sucks and LBJ is still the best player in the series. I believe MIA will still get to the finals and doubt they lose 2 straight not to mention 4 straight noncovers going back to CHI after they just went 50-4 or something.
Forget the matchups for a sec, I look at it this way. IND has a good starting 5 but their bench still sucks and LBJ is still the best player in the series. I believe MIA will still get to the finals and doubt they lose 2 straight not to mention 4 straight noncovers going back to CHI after they just went 50-4 or something.
Also read something about Steve Kerr's theory on young playoff teams counting on their home crowd to basically win the game through emotion, not a good thing as we saw last night in MEM and again in GS last series. Mem has been undefeated with a great margin at home til last night, i believe they same will happen to IND tom. Mia also 4-0 on the road in playoffs with a great margin too btw.
emkee
The Truth Is Out There
Both teams pretty good in Game 3.
When tied 1-game-all in a best-of-7 NBA playoff series, the Miami Heat have a 7-4 series record (with an active three-series winning streak) and a 9-2 Game 3 record, while the Indiana Pacers have a 5-6 series record and an 8-3 Game 3 record with an active six-Game 3 winning streak...
When tied 1-game-all in a best-of-7 NBA playoff series, the Miami Heat have a 7-4 series record (with an active three-series winning streak) and a 9-2 Game 3 record, while the Indiana Pacers have a 5-6 series record and an 8-3 Game 3 record with an active six-Game 3 winning streak...
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
As I see it, I believe that bench always plays better at home. So if Indiana managed to shut down Heat bench in Miami and get some production from their bench (in Game 1), I fully expect Pacers bench to contribute at least 70% of what Heat bench can do.
Pacers starters are really good and I can't agree with Kerr's theory on this one.
It may have been true in GSW case, but Pacers remember what happened last season, after Pacers won in Miami and still couldn't win the series.
Pacers should win all home games, the main question in my eyes, is will Pacers win the series 4 - 1 or 4 - 2...
Pacers starters are really good and I can't agree with Kerr's theory on this one.
It may have been true in GSW case, but Pacers remember what happened last season, after Pacers won in Miami and still couldn't win the series.
Pacers should win all home games, the main question in my eyes, is will Pacers win the series 4 - 1 or 4 - 2...
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
Lebron is scared of Hibbert?
Roy Hibbert is in LeBron James' head
By Henry Abbott | May 24, 2013 9:56 AM
Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE via Getty Images
The rarest of sights: LeBron James attacking Roy Hibbert at the rim.
After hitting the overtime buzzer-beating layup in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals, LeBron James insisted he barely noticed whether Pacers center Roy Hibbert was on the court.
"I don't know if I was surprised or not. I really wasn't worried about if Hibbert was in the game at all."
Later he added: "I was in attack [mode] when Hibbert was in the game, I was in attack when Hibbert wasn't in the game."
I don't believe a word of it.
Let me tell you about Roy Hibbert and LeBron James. On the basketball court, they are blatantly obsessed with each other.
When LeBron has the ball, Hibbert often ignores his own man to better focus on James. And that's not new. When other Pacer bigs sense a James drive coming and step into the lane to protect the rim, Hibbert has been known to physically shove a teammate or two out of the way in order to patrol that zone.
The tallest player in the Eastern Conference (at 7-foot-2) does that because he knows James hates to try to score over him.
James is an entirely different player with Hibbert in the game, to the unfathomable extent that James adds a weird-looking new shot to his arsenal -- the teardrop -- almost exclusively for use over the massive Hibbert. It's such a rare move that James' first attempt in Wednesday's game -- a miss -- was greeted by commentator Steve Kerr's observation, "That's not part of his game."
Which is true -- against most opponents.
ESPN's Tom Haberstroh quoted James as saying he "just dusts it off when he needs it." Based on careful video review from the NBA's advanced stats site, James only "needs it" against Hibbert. James throws it down over a who's who of NBA big men, and essentially all the other Pacers, from David West to Paul George. When he encounters the biggest Pacer, though, he stops short, and flips up one of the toughest shots in the game.
James has made nine floaters over Hibbert over the last year (dating back to the 2012 playoffs). It's tough to find evidence he has attempted more than a couple against the rest of the league combined.
More importantly, Hibbert and the Pacers clearly make James think twice about attacking the rim. As background: James makes dunks and layups over and around an entire NBA's worth of big men. He's not only among the league's most frequent paint shooters, but he's also among the most efficient. According to SportVu, a typical NBA possession is worth about a point. Some of the NBA's most effective plays ramp up the efficiency to 1.2 points, for instance by having a typical point guard break down a typical defense and get close to the rim.
James, however. Hoo-boy. James' drives are worth a mighty 1.68 points each, on average. That's almost certainly the best scoring weapon in hoops.
And yet, despite repeated statements to the contrary, the MVP shelves that super-effective attack when Hibbert is patrolling the paint.
Over the past year combined -- the 2012 playoffs, 2012-13 regular season, and Game 1 of this series -- James has taken 210 shots against the Pacers and made 106. I just watched them all. A grand total of four of the makes -- three in last year's playoffs and the one in the photo above from Game 1 -- came from James taking on Hibbert directly at the rim. There are James scores near Hibbert, for instance by sneaking in behind him, or one oddball hook shot moving away from the hoop. But only four when James identified Hibbert on duty and proceeded to attempt a layup or dunk.
Meanwhile, James spends a lot of time driving close to Hibbert and then dishing (no small part of Chris Andersen's big Game 1) or pulling up from midrange, where LeBron is much-improved, but nothing like as effective. There was also one entire game -- the Heat's win over Indiana in the middle of their 27-game win streak -- when James drove just twice all game against a set defense of any kind.
This reticence has an effect. This season LeBron scored fewer points per game in the paint against Indiana than against any other team, according to the NBA's advanced stats website. Not surprisingly, with those high-percentage attempts down, James' shooting percentages are well below average against the Pacers compared to other teams.
Why does Hibbert so bother James? It's a big question, and size is only part of the answer.
There are some clues on the video. Worth noting: On the rare occasions when James has attempted it, he has scored over and around Hibbert without much trouble. But in addition to coping with the center's size, he must also cope with the Pacers' teamwide defensive tactics. One is that Hibbert and other Pacers have demonstrated a willingness to take charges, something James carefully avoids.
Another is that the Pacers are a "no layups" team if ever there was one. Going all-out to score over Hibbert leaves James distracted, airborne and in traffic, and therefore prone to any number of hard fouls, the likes of which have been constant in Heat versus Pacers games.
Game 1 was one of the most tightly called playoff games in modern league history, but even that one featured Ian Mahinmi's throwing James hard to the court on a rare occasion (Hibbert was on the bench) when James found himself with room at the rim. That fall infuriated the Heat star, who proceeded to drive relentlessly and effectively the next several possessions, marking his only period of half-court rim-attacking in the game. And it ended shortly after Hibbert returned.
James gets fouled hard as much as anyone -- it's a preferred leaguewide tactic to neutralize those effective drives. There's evidence that all kinds of NBA players avoid driving when they can, presumably because of the associated injury risk. That James often avoids those plays is normal, human and game-changing.
This shadowboxing between James and Hibbert has been playing out for at least a year, and matters. It's at the heart of a blossoming Pacers-Heat rivalry, and it could easily determine who'll win the East.
Tags:League-Wide IssuesMiami HeatIndiana PacersHenry AbbottStat GeekeryWorking Bodies2013 playoffs
Roy Hibbert is in LeBron James' head
By Henry Abbott | May 24, 2013 9:56 AM
Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE via Getty Images
The rarest of sights: LeBron James attacking Roy Hibbert at the rim.
After hitting the overtime buzzer-beating layup in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals, LeBron James insisted he barely noticed whether Pacers center Roy Hibbert was on the court.
"I don't know if I was surprised or not. I really wasn't worried about if Hibbert was in the game at all."
Later he added: "I was in attack [mode] when Hibbert was in the game, I was in attack when Hibbert wasn't in the game."
I don't believe a word of it.
Let me tell you about Roy Hibbert and LeBron James. On the basketball court, they are blatantly obsessed with each other.
When LeBron has the ball, Hibbert often ignores his own man to better focus on James. And that's not new. When other Pacer bigs sense a James drive coming and step into the lane to protect the rim, Hibbert has been known to physically shove a teammate or two out of the way in order to patrol that zone.
The tallest player in the Eastern Conference (at 7-foot-2) does that because he knows James hates to try to score over him.
James is an entirely different player with Hibbert in the game, to the unfathomable extent that James adds a weird-looking new shot to his arsenal -- the teardrop -- almost exclusively for use over the massive Hibbert. It's such a rare move that James' first attempt in Wednesday's game -- a miss -- was greeted by commentator Steve Kerr's observation, "That's not part of his game."
Which is true -- against most opponents.
ESPN's Tom Haberstroh quoted James as saying he "just dusts it off when he needs it." Based on careful video review from the NBA's advanced stats site, James only "needs it" against Hibbert. James throws it down over a who's who of NBA big men, and essentially all the other Pacers, from David West to Paul George. When he encounters the biggest Pacer, though, he stops short, and flips up one of the toughest shots in the game.
James has made nine floaters over Hibbert over the last year (dating back to the 2012 playoffs). It's tough to find evidence he has attempted more than a couple against the rest of the league combined.
More importantly, Hibbert and the Pacers clearly make James think twice about attacking the rim. As background: James makes dunks and layups over and around an entire NBA's worth of big men. He's not only among the league's most frequent paint shooters, but he's also among the most efficient. According to SportVu, a typical NBA possession is worth about a point. Some of the NBA's most effective plays ramp up the efficiency to 1.2 points, for instance by having a typical point guard break down a typical defense and get close to the rim.
James, however. Hoo-boy. James' drives are worth a mighty 1.68 points each, on average. That's almost certainly the best scoring weapon in hoops.
And yet, despite repeated statements to the contrary, the MVP shelves that super-effective attack when Hibbert is patrolling the paint.
Over the past year combined -- the 2012 playoffs, 2012-13 regular season, and Game 1 of this series -- James has taken 210 shots against the Pacers and made 106. I just watched them all. A grand total of four of the makes -- three in last year's playoffs and the one in the photo above from Game 1 -- came from James taking on Hibbert directly at the rim. There are James scores near Hibbert, for instance by sneaking in behind him, or one oddball hook shot moving away from the hoop. But only four when James identified Hibbert on duty and proceeded to attempt a layup or dunk.
Meanwhile, James spends a lot of time driving close to Hibbert and then dishing (no small part of Chris Andersen's big Game 1) or pulling up from midrange, where LeBron is much-improved, but nothing like as effective. There was also one entire game -- the Heat's win over Indiana in the middle of their 27-game win streak -- when James drove just twice all game against a set defense of any kind.
This reticence has an effect. This season LeBron scored fewer points per game in the paint against Indiana than against any other team, according to the NBA's advanced stats website. Not surprisingly, with those high-percentage attempts down, James' shooting percentages are well below average against the Pacers compared to other teams.
Why does Hibbert so bother James? It's a big question, and size is only part of the answer.
There are some clues on the video. Worth noting: On the rare occasions when James has attempted it, he has scored over and around Hibbert without much trouble. But in addition to coping with the center's size, he must also cope with the Pacers' teamwide defensive tactics. One is that Hibbert and other Pacers have demonstrated a willingness to take charges, something James carefully avoids.
Another is that the Pacers are a "no layups" team if ever there was one. Going all-out to score over Hibbert leaves James distracted, airborne and in traffic, and therefore prone to any number of hard fouls, the likes of which have been constant in Heat versus Pacers games.
Game 1 was one of the most tightly called playoff games in modern league history, but even that one featured Ian Mahinmi's throwing James hard to the court on a rare occasion (Hibbert was on the bench) when James found himself with room at the rim. That fall infuriated the Heat star, who proceeded to drive relentlessly and effectively the next several possessions, marking his only period of half-court rim-attacking in the game. And it ended shortly after Hibbert returned.
James gets fouled hard as much as anyone -- it's a preferred leaguewide tactic to neutralize those effective drives. There's evidence that all kinds of NBA players avoid driving when they can, presumably because of the associated injury risk. That James often avoids those plays is normal, human and game-changing.
This shadowboxing between James and Hibbert has been playing out for at least a year, and matters. It's at the heart of a blossoming Pacers-Heat rivalry, and it could easily determine who'll win the East.
Tags:League-Wide IssuesMiami HeatIndiana PacersHenry AbbottStat GeekeryWorking Bodies2013 playoffs
On the Kerr thing, I think the main point is you can't just assume you're going to be undefeated at home in the playoffs just because you've done well so far. Klay said something in an interview after G2 about going back 3-1 and I'm sure the Mem guys/fans/backers kind of thought if they tie 2-2 they'll be right back in the series. I feel that's what will happen to IND.
linewatcher
Pretty much a regular
Crap. Lang is on the pacers?
uking:
uking:
MusicCityGambler
Chill Winstonnn!
Heat and the Under tonight fellas. GL.
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
Very strange game so far.
I don't think that even the Heat thought they would score 70 points at HT in Indiana...
17 - 17 on rebounds, but even more important, Heat with one turnover the entire first half!
In the first two games they had 14 and 20 turnovers in a game.
Pacers shoot 80% from behind the line and losing by double digits...
I'm looking at the stats and the game and just can't understand that to be honest.
Refs btw are terrible yet again. Not against any team, but they are calling it very very tight against both teams that have no problem with game being a bit physical...
I don't think that even the Heat thought they would score 70 points at HT in Indiana...
17 - 17 on rebounds, but even more important, Heat with one turnover the entire first half!
In the first two games they had 14 and 20 turnovers in a game.
Pacers shoot 80% from behind the line and losing by double digits...
I'm looking at the stats and the game and just can't understand that to be honest.
Refs btw are terrible yet again. Not against any team, but they are calling it very very tight against both teams that have no problem with game being a bit physical...
emkee
The Truth Is Out There
Coincidence that the last time Lebron fouled out was in Game 4 of the 2012 Conference Finals at Boston (C's won and tied the series 2-2) with Joe Crawford officiating. That in itself says a lot about the league and the fools they've got controlling the games.
C's then won Game 5, before losing Game's 6 and 7...
C's then won Game 5, before losing Game's 6 and 7...
Strong lean Heat G5. Public pounding IND as they kept the first 2 games close. But I believe Mia comes out hard tonight, they always have after losing this playoffs. Indy is not really a great road team they lost by dd to both NY and ATL twice. Same thing will happen from last year IND MIA series as well as the GS SAS series. Good luck all!
SportsFanatic
Pretty much a regular
Indiana @ Miami Refs for tonight: Danny Crawford, James Capers, Marc Davis, and Sean Corbin.
wizardofodd
Resident Newlywed
even if I had money like Wade, I would not dress like a queer. (am i allowed to say that)?
I mean you live in Mi-fukn-ami, you will never need boots ya prick!!!
I mean you live in Mi-fukn-ami, you will never need boots ya prick!!!
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