Does This Rise to the Level of Assault?
- Thread starter VirginiaCavs
- Start date
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
All of this is nonsense. And needs to get fixed before the next home game so this never ever happens again. Enough already.
I totally get and support the idea of playing your rival with more intensity on the field.
But why can't there be mutual respect?
A couple March Madness-es ago ago the Michigan basketball players were playing in the same arena as Michigan State and they wished Spartan players good luck before their game (I'm trying to rediscover the tweet). But they played each other in an intense rivalry on the court. Why can't the football teams be like this? Why does there always have to be some sort of ego-heavy and even violent scuffle?
But why can't there be mutual respect?
A couple March Madness-es ago ago the Michigan basketball players were playing in the same arena as Michigan State and they wished Spartan players good luck before their game (I'm trying to rediscover the tweet). But they played each other in an intense rivalry on the court. Why can't the football teams be like this? Why does there always have to be some sort of ego-heavy and even violent scuffle?
Back to the football scuffle -- echoing one of the comments, why is the Michigan player all by himself? This is like the Devin Bush scene 2.0?
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
Because it’s football and they had just spent the last 60 min bashing each others skulls in. And now they’re crammed together in a corridor.
Not a great comparison to the basketball situation you’re describing.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
It's assault
No random excuses applies in all aspects of life, you don't just get to beat people because you played a football game
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Where was he condoning the behavior though? He seemed to specifically answer VC’s question as to why it was different than the basketball situation.
Anything else is just someone reading into it what they want.
Anything else is just someone reading into it what they want.
Except basketball obviously isn‘t immune to brawls…hell, baseball is famous for them. Your comment implies a correlation (between violence of the sport and likelihood of players fighting) that I don‘t think exists, because the competitiveness, the fact of competition by itself already does more than enough to create potential for extracurricular violence.
So my comparison was just fine.
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
Thank you. I never condoned anything in my statement.
Was merely stating that this locker room arrangement or whatever you want to call it is beyond foolish and was 100% going to lead to someone getting hurt at some point. And again, it's time to fix it.
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
The primary issue is the environment and this is where the comparison falls short.
If you took MSU/UM football players and stuck them in a random pizzeria on a Wed night everything would probably be pretty chill. Hanging out pregame in a basketball arena is not a fair equivalent to what transpired in that locker room corridor. Not from an environmental perspective nor emotional/mental. Adrenaline is pumping. MSU had just gotten humiliated after a hard fought, physical game. There was ample amount of taunting prior to the fight. Decision making is not the same as when in a non threatening, collegial environment.
Violence of the sport doesn't increase the likelihood of players fighting (though it doesn't help - because again, adrenaline) but violence of the sport does impact the personality/physicality types of those who choose to participate and their predilection towards violence in an 'off the field' environment. I think it's safe to stay that I'd be less concerned about the UM/MSU's respective golf teams coming to blows than I would be the football teams
At the end of the day I think this situation can easily be avoided and immediate changes should be made to ensure that it never happens again.
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
You're straw-manning me a bit because I even specified that the situation took place away from the heated setting of a competition, so it is trivially true that the setting (a basketball arena when they're not playing each other) will not possibly foster such belligerence.The primary issue is the environment and this is where the comparison falls short.
If you took MSU/UM football players and stuck them in a random pizzeria on a Wed night everything would probably be pretty chill. Hanging out pregame in a basketball arena is not a fair equivalent to what transpired in that locker room corridor. Not from an environmental perspective nor emotional/mental. Adrenaline is pumping. MSU had just gotten humiliated after a hard fought, physical game. There was ample amount of taunting prior to the fight. Decision making is not the same as when in a non threatening, collegial environment.
Violence of the sport doesn't increase the likelihood of players fighting (though it doesn't help - because again, adrenaline) but violence of the sport does impact the personality/physicality types of those who choose to participate and their predilection towards violence in an 'off the field' environment. I think it's safe to stay that I'd be less concerned about the UM/MSU's respective golf teams coming to blows than I would be the football teams
At the end of the day I think this situation can easily be avoided and immediate changes should be made to ensure that it never happens again.
My point is that the difference is so radical -- coming to blows versus wishing each other good luck. The football players would surely never be inclined to behave so congenially towards each other irrespective of the setting. I don't think it's about the violence of the game because basketball players brawl, too -- although, again, the Spartan and Wolverine players who wished each other good luck weren't brawling, either.
We can speculate (the relevant empirical facts would be hard to obtain) about whether Michigan/Spartan players had a predilection to be violent but we don't know that. That predilection certainly exists in basketball players, too, they often come from rough backgrounds (which is why golf is a cheap point, golfers seem to belong in a higher socioeconomic class).
I don't think there's a good reason why the football players should behave this way -- as opposed to the basketball players, and I think you'd agree with at least some construal of that statement. I'm with you, this kind of bullshit should be avoided and should never happen again.
I'll post more on this later but several MSU players should be suspended / kicked off team for the rest of the year.
This could be their way to get out of the Tucker contract (water cooler talk here).
Absolute disgrace what they did. Disgusting.
I'm gonna tell you guys a little something about the tunnel.
100 years of games just about.
The first incident was last year vs OSU. That was just shouting, that's fine.
The 2nd was versus PSU. That was funny because they were getting their asses kicked on the field stat wise and Franklin was leading the charge and they threw PBJ sandwiches at players on UM. No harm, no foul .
This one was violence and pure PUSSY shit.
You fight one on one with your hands. You don't have someone hold down a player while you use your helmet as a weapon. In the other incident, that was a straight up jumping of up to 10 guys on 1 guy.
This is such cowardly shit
The cops, security and MEDIA filming and watching is EMBARRASSING and a BIG reflection on our society as a whole the last several years.
This could be their way to get out of the Tucker contract (water cooler talk here).
Absolute disgrace what they did. Disgusting.
I'm gonna tell you guys a little something about the tunnel.
100 years of games just about.
The first incident was last year vs OSU. That was just shouting, that's fine.
The 2nd was versus PSU. That was funny because they were getting their asses kicked on the field stat wise and Franklin was leading the charge and they threw PBJ sandwiches at players on UM. No harm, no foul .
This one was violence and pure PUSSY shit.
You fight one on one with your hands. You don't have someone hold down a player while you use your helmet as a weapon. In the other incident, that was a straight up jumping of up to 10 guys on 1 guy.
This is such cowardly shit
The cops, security and MEDIA filming and watching is EMBARRASSING and a BIG reflection on our society as a whole the last several years.
The problem is...big picture..
These guys are here to...
-Play Football
-Education
-Grow into a man
They need to be punished and LEARN from this.
I'll give a decade old example..
Point guard Keith Appling and another player sexually assaulted a student. They have them on film admitting it. Nothing was ever prosecuted. Izzo didn't due anything to them.
Entitlement.
Take a peek at Applings life since then. Not good (Prison the end game).
Many more examples across college athletics as well.
These guys are here to...
-Play Football
-Education
-Grow into a man
They need to be punished and LEARN from this.
I'll give a decade old example..
Point guard Keith Appling and another player sexually assaulted a student. They have them on film admitting it. Nothing was ever prosecuted. Izzo didn't due anything to them.
Entitlement.
Take a peek at Applings life since then. Not good (Prison the end game).
Many more examples across college athletics as well.
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
1. I'm obviously not going to take the time to research this but I would feel confident that instances of physical violence amongst football players are higher in comparison to those participating in other sports. I'm not solely focused on basketball (which obviously has it's share of violence as well). And I'm not exactly sure why we're using one isolated instance of basketball players being friendly with each other to ignore the fact that this locker room arrangement sucks. And the myriad of other variables that led to this ugly incident.
2. There is no good reason why ANYONE should behave this way. But there is a documented history of these ugly locker room interactions in AA not just between players but coaches as well. And this has happened with various visiting teams. So this isn't relegated to MSU or 'rivalry' games. This was a powder keg and should not have been allowed to continue. Why was it allowed to continue? Rather than continuing to play the victim card just fix it and move on so it never happens again.
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
Hadn't seen this angle. The ugliness of the situation goes without saying.
But the powers that be can try to fix this. Or not.
Where's the police in all of this? Is there not more police around than just the cops who accompany the head coaches for the post-game handshake?
Tucker's issues with disciplining his team were obvious from the first drive in case they weren't obvious before this game.
This is a separate attack.
They got starting corner Green here.
The other one was the jumping of Jaden McBurrows.
Yeah, this was very Dantonio esque last night as far as the "unnecessary roughness" mantra. Honestly haven't seen that from Tucks teams so far. Rumor is Dantoni was involved a bit the last two weeks .
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Amazing that international soccer has teams coming down the same tunnel always without much incident and they are some of the wealthiest pricks in the world. And if you say that they're too small to do engage in hooliganism, I'll laugh.
Pretty sad when competitors can't handle something as simple as coexisting in a confined space in the 21st century.
Pretty sad when competitors can't handle something as simple as coexisting in a confined space in the 21st century.
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
During the telecast they said that security had been beefed up.
I'm not seeing much beef in these clips.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Old running joke was the most popular major at UNLV was bouncing
There was extra.
Again, between security and cops, who wants to get involved and be accused of any wrongdoing since the movement of the last 3 years.
Bad situation.
All the adults should have intervened.
Coaches, staff, security, cops and PLAYERS.
Should have never gotten to that point if not for some rotten apples on one side.
That's on the MSU staff, their parents and the AD as a whole.
A few will hopefully be charged so they can learn a lesson and learn from it.
MSU will heavily be in the spotlight. They are better off at minimum suspending the worst offenders for the season. Don't make the conference do your dirty work.
AliShaheed
Pretty much a regular
Frank Costanza
Co-Inventor of the Man's Bra
Those thugs from Michigan State should be gone for the year.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
I’m pretty sure he agrees with you and doesn’t want to see anything like that happen again, why was it a bad post?
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
At the very least.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Blaming the tunnel.
This wasn't a tunnel issue.
This is an issue beyond that.
Bad apples the last 3 weeks (MSU certain players + James Franklin+ handful of PSU players).
I understand frustration when you get your ass kicked but take it like an adult and move on.
The big issue here again,
Two weeks ago you have a fucking coach inciting things (James Franklin).
Last night, we had around double digit players both jumping and holding down seperate players.
That's on the staff and AD at Michigan State University.
Stop blaming a tunnel..
95 years of no issues...
Punk ass bitches are the problem...
I wouldn't care if this was a one on one thing. Have at it.
Pussy bitch boys here.
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
Sounds basic, but because they don’t actively hit/tackle each other?
I’m not from up there, but it just seems a dated formula.
Are we going to get into Devin Bush, pre-game warmup, logo stomp?
