Chris Paul...

The need for the traditional PG is lower without Centers and shot blockers in the league anymore. Much easier to have bigger guards take it to the rim now than it was when the league had 7 footers. Throw in the development of the "carry" and inability to hand-check and the pass is far less needed to generate looks as it used to be.

Also, the bench matters .. and clippers bench does suck .... but the starting five/six is still what makes or breaks most teams in this league and there is enough there for Clippers to will their way to the finals. Paul was hurt though.... without his amazing performance against the Spurs they don't even escape round 1.
 
divol said:
RW is much much much better defender both on ball and off the ball, interrupting passing lanes...

Doc has huge blame, Blake as well - no doubt.

Out of all the players on Clips roster, he is the one we should blame the least. But... He still has a blame on him.

1) Few dumb turnovers in absolutely crucial moments
2) You're the point guard and the best player for your team - you got to make others better
3) He is considered by many (including myself) as the best point guard of his generation (between Nash and RW) and have yet to reach Conference Finals, not to mention won anything.
He is the one that allowed Clips to have their melt down in Game 6. He was on the floor and couldn't rally the troops (or go off himself with only 7 points during Rockets comeback). He couldn't get himself or his teammates in the right set of mind, coming to Game 7. Last year, he handed the series to the Thunder on a silver platter.
He had very nice roster with the Hornets twice, back in NO days and still couldn't make it to the WC Finals.

He is a great player, but he is a loser. If Stockton and many others were stopped by one team, that was above their generation, than CP3 lost on the playoffs to a bunch of teams. Spurs, Lakers, Rockets, Thunder, Memphis (and I think Denver as well). You can't make a point about all the other that didn't win the ring and still all time greats, because a) all of them reached at least Conference Finals b) Usually they had one team stand in their way that was simply better - Bulls, Boston, Lakers are the obvious suspects. That's not the case with Paul.
Clippers were huge favorites to win the series. Rockets banged up, not a strong team mentally and have a very easy to read stars and yet....
Did you see the slides with the percentages? At one moment in Game 6, it was 99.9% chances for Clips to win... If the team losses, no way that team's best player comes out clean...
Click to expand...


Houston was - 150 to win the series... I know because I took them
 
B.A.R. said:
Btw,

If the result was a Clippers win today you could totally start a thread about the Beard...

He hasn't been around as long and only became 'first' fiddle in last couple years but he was disappointing through 2 rounds. For anyone to call him MVP is ludicrous.

Great player but he also doesn't have that 'imma take a series over' mentality.
Click to expand...



Personally I think that Dwight being in the mix really hindered Harden's game. Harden is the type that needs space to get to the basket and get his flow. With Dwight and Deandre in the paint at all time, thats very difficult to do for him the same way he has been doing it all season.... now I do think he will have an easier time vs the warriors because their bigs arent as good as the clippers.
 
clowncar said:
The need for the traditional PG is lower without Centers and shot blockers in the league anymore. Much easier to have bigger guards take it to the rim now than it was when the league had 7 footers. Throw in the development of the "carry" and inability to hand-check and the pass is far less needed to generate looks as it used to be.

Also, the bench matters .. and clippers bench does suck .... but the starting five/six is still what makes or breaks most teams in this league and there is enough there for Clippers to will their way to the finals. Paul was hurt though.... without his amazing performance against the Spurs they don't even escape round 1.
Click to expand...


Yup...People forget how they got passed the Spurs and the fact that he was playing hurt

No Paul and this is a 25 win team

Jordan cant score

The fact that Barnes and Reddick are starters is laughable..Those two guys would be on the bench for 85 % of the other teams in the league

Blake is a pussy..Lets face it..played great this year in the playoffs until game 5, but the guy has no heart , no will , and cant create his own shot. Mental midget and he proved it since game 5

CP3 is the only one who tried doing something in game 6. Reddick , DJ , Blake and the rest terrified to take a shot and were playing hot potato with the ball.

To call CP3 a "loser" and blame him for losing the seriers is Moronic and idiotic by the OP and others in here. Bitter about the poor gambling decisions they made
 
CASH said:
Maybe it was the time of the post or a few cocktails deep..... but this line is ludicrous..

As I am sure you know the MVP is for the regular season only and to say this is well.....Ludicrous...
Click to expand...


Im a HUUUUGE Harden supporter and thought he should have won the MVP..
But...im very disappointed with his play so far in the playoffs. He has been way to passive and isn't taking enough shots.
When Ariza has taken as many shots as you and Jones , Brewer, Smith have almost the same amount of shits ..something is wrong
He needs to step up and take over
 
Blake improved his game and skills tremendously this year. His 18 foot jump shot is the reason they beat the spurs imo. But he is still not a leader. That is the next step for him. It doesnt help that is in LA either
 
nbafan88 said:
Personally I think that Dwight being in the mix really hindered Harden's game. Harden is the type that needs space to get to the basket and get his flow. With Dwight and Deandre in the paint at all time, thats very difficult to do for him the same way he has been doing it all season.... now I do think he will have an easier time vs the warriors because their bigs arent as good as the clippers.
Click to expand...

What was excuse last year?
 
ArizonaKid said:
Sure there has been. Isiah Thomas was the best player on those Detroit back 2 back teams and definitely the team leader. Magic was the best player when the Lakers repeated right before that.
Click to expand...

But those guys had a very nice supporting cast...the point was who has carried a team BY THEMSELVES, not carried them as the leader.
 
B.A.R. said:
Vernon was always a shooting guard. Definitely never been confused for a PG.
Click to expand...

He was listed as a PG, and since everyone was being such sticklers with PG or SG, Maxwell has to count as a PG. I don't disagree with you, but LeBron wasn't able to be counted as a PG on that Cleveland team even though he clearly was, so Vernon has to be a PG in this exercise.
 
goldengreek said:
Yup...People forget how they got passed the Spurs and the fact that he was playing hurt

No Paul and this is a 25 win team

Jordan cant score

The fact that Barnes and Reddick are starters is laughable..Those two guys would be on the bench for 85 % of the other teams in the league

Blake is a pussy..Lets face it..played great this year in the playoffs until game 5, but the guy has no heart , no will , and cant create his own shot. Mental midget and he proved it since game 5

CP3 is the only one who tried doing something in game 6. Reddick , DJ , Blake and the rest terrified to take a shot and were playing hot potato with the ball.

To call CP3 a "loser" and blame him for losing the seriers is Moronic and idiotic by the OP and others in here. Bitter about the poor gambling decisions they made
Click to expand...

Just as moronic as calling LeBron James a ball hog. You still haven't defended that comment, or admitted you're clearly wrong (outside of trying to use a 5 game sample size with key guys out).
 
ArizonaKid said:
No player in the history of the league has ever a team by themselves to a title.
Click to expand...

Right, not to a title. The question was has any PG ever led their team to the Finals pretty much by themselves. Did you even read the other posts? :p

And no, not literally by themselves...but the examples given were AI in 2001 and LeBron in 2007. Those 2 guys basically took their teams to the Finals "on their own."
 
B.A.R. said:
Btw,

If the result was a Clippers win today you could totally start a thread about the Beard...

He hasn't been around as long and only became 'first' fiddle in last couple years but he was disappointing through 2 rounds. For anyone to call him MVP is ludicrous.

Great player but he also doesn't have that 'imma take a series over' mentality.
Click to expand...

B.A.R. said:
Not really bud...

I get it is for regular season but he has simply been very underwhelming as a Rocket in the playoffs...
Click to expand...

I agree his playoffs have been underwhelming...
Maybe i am confused on your post..... Are you saying MVP for the playoffs or regular season is ludicrous?
 
divol said:
Not before CP3's injury.
When the series came back to LA, tied 1 - 1 and with CP3 playing, the odds were like 1.40 on Clips to win...
Click to expand...

Of course...they had taken home court away from Houston at that point

Im talking series odds before a game was played

The rockets were - 150

Clippers were not favored to win the series
 
Lareux said:
Just as moronic as calling LeBron James a ball hog. You still haven't defended that comment, or admitted you're clearly wrong (outside of trying to use a 5 game sample size with key guys out).
Click to expand...

He is a gunner. Period...Just like Westbrook , Durant , Curry, Harden ...does he not lead his team in shots per game for the season? ...every season? By a wide margin ?

You are splitting hairs and your fanboy love of LeBron is causing an issue when their isn't one. I didn't mean disrespect when calling him a ballhog...is gunner a better term....my point was CP3 isn't a gunner/ dosent have a score first mentality like a lot of the shoot first point guards that are a trend in the leaugue
 
yeah, a guy with one hammy is a choker when he helps win the series in game 7 vs the defending champs. the guy is a warrior and has been, Ive always felt he was under appreciated.

heres another way to look at it.

He took two franchises with no history or pedigree to playoffs multiple times. no conference finals aside.

Actually this is the 2nd time he has been up 3-1 in conference semis and lost. Once with the New Orleans Hornets and lost to the Spurs, and this year with the Clippers. both teams rosters benches were complete garbage after the 6th man. Feel bad for the guy, but he's never had a strong enough supporting cast.
 
Last edited:
i have never been a cp fan but i came away from this series with more respect for him....he wasn't the reason they lost....they lost because they didn't have enough talent after cp/blake and it became obvious as the series unfolded
 
But in each of these instances he had the opportunity to put the team on his back and get over the hump, he went MIA when it mattered.

His defensive reads yesterday and in Game's 5 and 6 were poor. Can't blame fatigue because he had extra rest.

LeBron gets shit for choking in games his team wins because people ignore the fact he makes those around him better. His idiot coach calls a dumb play and LBJ mans up and changes it to benefit the team.

Bottom line is the Clippers were the better team in this series with the overwhelming advantage at the point guard position and brutally failed.

Spurs series means nothing by failing to a weaker team the following round.

Enough with the excuses.
 
I have been saying this for years. Clippers aren't built for the playoffs. DeAndre Jordan disappears late in games once half court defense is set.

Blake griffin is the choker, guy is a great player and is improved but he has this hesitation around him late in games.

Paul deserves blame for not mentally helping his team but no way is it his fault.

I personally would put this lost on doc. He froze in game 6. Didn't make any adjustments when houston was going off
.
 
goldengreek said:
He is a gunner. Period...Just like Westbrook , Durant , Curry, Harden ...does he not lead his team in shots per game for the season? ...every season? By a wide margin ?

You are splitting hairs and your fanboy love of LeBron is causing an issue when their isn't one. I didn't mean disrespect when calling him a ballhog...is gunner a better term....my point was CP3 isn't a gunner/ dosent have a score first mentality like a lot of the shoot first point guards that are a trend in the leaugue
Click to expand...


He is not, and no.
 
B.A.R. said:
I gotta call bullshit here. Emotionally exhausted after Game 6? Absolutely. The playoffs are the easiest part of season schedule-wise with no b2b's, no 3 in 4's or 4 in 5's....and there were 2 FULL days off between games. They were not exhausted. That is blasphemy.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you, but here are two people that don't:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=12908609 (around 6:00 minutes in to the podcast)

I can also add that the intense of a playoff game is much bigger than regular season game, so obviously playing 40 minutes can really tire you...
I can add that Bulls off more than one day's rest been 4 - 0 SU and ATS and 2 - 6 SU on one day's rest...

It shouldn't be an issue, but somehow, it probably is...
 
divol said:
I tend to agree with you, but here are two people that don't:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=12908609 (around 6:00 minutes in to the podcast)

I can also add that the intense of a playoff game is much bigger than regular season game, so obviously playing 40 minutes can really tire you...
I can add that Bulls off more than one day's rest been 4 - 0 SU and ATS and 2 - 6 SU on one day's rest...

It shouldn't be an issue, but somehow, it probably is...
Click to expand...


Not gonna read anything espn related as it will be garbage..

Don't care about about days rest....these guys get their most rest in playoffs...
 
emkee said:
But in each of these instances he had the opportunity to put the team on his back and get over the hump, he went MIA when it mattered.

His defensive reads yesterday and in Game's 5 and 6 were poor. Can't blame fatigue because he had extra rest.

LeBron gets shit for choking in games his team wins because people ignore the fact he makes those around him better. His idiot coach calls a dumb play and LBJ mans up and changes it to benefit the team.

Bottom line is the Clippers were the better team in this series with the overwhelming advantage at the point guard position and brutally failed.

Spurs series means nothing by failing to a weaker team the following round.

Enough with the excuses.
Click to expand...


if we use this argument then basically everyone in the Jordan era are chokers.
 
No, we can't.
Again, many good players and teams didn't get any rings due to Jordan and the Bulls. But CP3 teams lost to half of WC in the playoffs. Lakers, Spurs, Memphis, Oklahoma, Denver and Houston. They won series only against Dallas, Spurs and Memphis and GSW.
Good teams in Jordan era at least got to the NBA Finals or Conference Finals, CP3's teams didn't.
 
goldengreek said:
He is a gunner. Period...Just like Westbrook , Durant , Curry, Harden ...does he not lead his team in shots per game for the season? ...every season? By a wide margin ?

You are splitting hairs and your fanboy love of LeBron is causing an issue when their isn't one. I didn't mean disrespect when calling him a ballhog...is gunner a better term....my point was CP3 isn't a gunner/ dosent have a score first mentality like a lot of the shoot first point guards that are a trend in the leaugue
Click to expand...

Um, yeah, no he's not a gunner. Who said I'm a LeBron fanboy anyway? I just call out morons with moronic statements, and you calling LeBron a ball hog, or even a gunner, is completely idiotic.

I mean this seriously...do you even watch the NBA? How in the fuck could anyone conclude that LeBron is a gunner? For fuck's sake, we've talked about this all thread long now....he is regularly taken to task by anyone and everyone for being too unselfish...you are literally the only person I've ever, ever, ever heard say that LeBron is anything but unselfish (to a fault even).
 
I have always thought Grif has a choking mentality. His demeanor is different late in games and he becomes less aggressive. Remember him treating the ball like it was a hot potato late in games or doing stupid shit like turning the ball over. Blake is the choker.
 
Gabe said:
I have always thought Grif has a choking mentality. His demeanor is different late in games and he becomes less aggressive. Remember him treating the ball like it was a hot potato late in games or doing stupid shit like turning the ball over. Blake is the choker.
Click to expand...

Guy just turned 26, been in the playoffs 4 times, ages 22,23,24,25 , still learning the nba and you label him a choker?.....
 
CASH said:
Guy just turned 26, been in the playoffs 4 times, ages 22,23,24,25 , still learning the nba and you label him a choker?.....
Click to expand...

He's had plenty of playoff experience. Of course he can change and I hope he does because I think he's a legit player. I am actually a big fan of GRIF, but he has shown me that he doesn't step up during key moments in playoff games. I said this 2 years ago and his performance this year only proved me point.
 
Gabe said:
He's had plenty of playoff experience. Of course he can change and I hope he does because I think he's a legit player. I am actually a big fan of GRIF, but he has shown me that he doesn't step up during key moments in playoff games. I said this 2 years ago and his performance this year only proved me point.
Click to expand...


um did you see Griffin in the Spurs series and did you notice how much he has improved in the past two seasons? The amount of time he has put in to improve his mid range jumper and FT shooting is remarkable in such a short of period of time...


I really dont understand what some of you guys expect. There has to a be a winner and a loser. The blame doesn't all fall on one or two players. The clippers need to get a new GM because Doc is not a guy that can build a team... he has shown that. He basically was given those duties to handle the Donald Sterling situation and that was bigger than basketball... what he did with the roster moves was pretty bad... he isn't the greatest x's and o's guy so his ingame coaching is blah and that makes the clippers look really bad at times.... they blew the series and couldnt recover mentally and meet the rockets intensity for game 7.
 
I personally thought Griffin was outstanding against the Rockets. The Rockets couldn't come up with an adjustment for him.

He was churning out 40 + minutes a game against the Spurs and Rockets and the team wore down not him. He still has room for improvement and he's added something to his game every year.
 
Blown,

Grif was spectacular in the Rockets series. His potential is limitless.

Where was he late in game 6? A superstar doesn't disappear like that, sorry.
 
Gabe,

I don't disagree with that but an adjustment that was made was Howard played Griffin in the 4th quarters of 6 and 7 (still an outstanding defender) and Griffin isn't 100 % confident in that 18 footer since he just developed it this year.
 
CP3 and Deandre Jordan named in defensive five of the year...

How on earth, team that is 15th in the league in defensive efficiency gets two players in to starting five...

And it's not like Barnes and Redick are that bad of a defenders...

Green from GSW (ranked 1st), Kawhi from SAS (ranked 3rd), Allen from Memphis (ranked 4th) complete the all defense...
 
Blake improved a lot, but if there's someone to blame on Clips (a part from Doc), it has to be Blake. The guy lacks killer mentality, and I'm not sure that's something he can learn. Just check his body language in the end of game 7, this guy was terrified. Can't go too far in post season, if that's your best player. CP3 is a pass first playmaker, hence he can't be the best player on a championship winning team, and I don't put this on him one bit.
 
This thread is way to long for me to really get into.

To Emkee's point, the Clippers are CP3's team. At the end of the day, whether right or wrong, the team's success or lack of success was going to fall on him. CP3 is a GREAT PG, but he has never won a damn thing, and when I say never won a damn thing, he's never taken his team to the conf finals! Comparing players, teams, etc, isn't fair and isn't the point. The point is that, it's game 7, you are the leader and best player on your team. YOU FIND A WAY TO WILL YOUR TEAM TO VICTORY, JUST LIKE HE DID HE GAME 3. He didn't do it. Again. At some point in time, when you are THE MAN, you tell everyone else to shut the fuck up, and get on my back. I thought CP3 had finally gotten to that point when he won game 3 with that crazy ass drive on one leg.

CP3 has ALL THE TOOLS except one: LEADER.

'
 
Lareux said:
Um, yeah, no he's not a gunner. Who said I'm a LeBron fanboy anyway? I just call out morons with moronic statements, and you calling LeBron a ball hog, or even a gunner, is completely idiotic.

I mean this seriously...do you even watch the NBA? How in the fuck could anyone conclude that LeBron is a gunner? For fuck's sake, we've talked about this all thread long now....he is regularly taken to task by anyone and everyone for being too unselfish...you are literally the only person I've ever, ever, ever heard say that LeBron is anything but unselfish (to a fault even).
Click to expand...



What is with the name calling ? Did I rape your sister or fuk your wife ??

LeBron with 37 shots tonight....lol


Kobe 37 points on 37 shots..."selfish/inefficien".
Lebron 37 points on 37 shots ..."hero/warrior/GOAT"

"You can play doctor right now. Number of injuries I have"

GOATs don't say that.

Great job...You barely beat a depleted , imjured, decimated team in OT
 
goldengreek said:
What is with the name calling ? Did I rape your sister or fuk your wife ??

LeBron with 37 shots tonight....lol


Kobe 37 points on 37 shots..."selfish/inefficien".
Lebron 37 points on 37 shots ..."hero/warrior/GOAT"

"You can play doctor right now. Number of injuries I have"

GOATs don't say that.
Click to expand...

Again, stay classy pal.

You seem to spew bravado off a win but never off a loss.

No need to drag up an old argument.
 
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