CFB ML Dogs Week 1 2007

redbearde

Pretty much a regular
Okay, I've been doing some preliminary reading, but I've had several other issues recently that have put capping foots by the wayside. I have a couple weeks now, before the start of the season, and I'm going to look at quite a few games I think have some potential.

If you're into this style, you will get more out of reading what The Garfather has to say than what you will get out of anything I say. Still...perhaps more information and opinions are better than less.

Typically the crux of betting is to rely on consistency or reliability. I think of this differently, so some of my wagers may seem absolutely idiotic. Of note, I paid for a wager on Rice to win at Florida St last year, and of course I might as well have wiped my ass for a month with those dollars...

But my interest here is in making a wager on a team that yields value. If I have a 40% chance of win (devised by entirely my own scientific or irrational means), and I'm getting +200, then that would make some sense. I may well still lose, but my favorite wagers are getting a 50-50 or better shot at something and getting paid odds for it by the house. Last year in the futility bowl during week 1, I think, I had a wager on Temple at +214 visiting the goliath of ineptitude Buffalo. Now, yes, I gleefully wagered money on Temple, but I was getting over 2:1 on my money for what managed to be a 50-50 shot. Temple had repeated attempts at getting the ball into the endzone from inside the 5, but in a thrilling goal-line stand, Buffalo finally ended a 300 year old drought of home wins.

The entire school stormed the field, and my wagered funds on Temple withered away. That week I won 3, lost 6, and I Made Money.

That's what I try to do. I prey on the unexpected. I would not say I side with the the public, against the public, or with the house anymore than one would stand with the house by wagering on the Don't Pass line in Craps, but I find my odds of coming away with more money are better this way than trying to catch 60%. The Goal is to hit 38% ML dogs. Higher is of course better.

I like to keep an eye on the SunBelt and MAC conferences particularly - the SunBelt is too shitty to ever be reliable, and the MAC, frankly, is dirty. When Amato was at NC State, there was GREAT money to be made with the wolfpack playing Florida St (not so any longer). I tend to not take a wager on the headliner game of a day or weekend, though I did win a smidge on the FSU/Miami game last year.

I do not like taking MLs of less than +150. Okay, I don't like taking them for less than +200, but I do it because I should. 1.5:1 is damned good money over time. 1.2:1 or so...not so much.

College Football is played by children. Forgive me, gentlemen, to those of you who are of the same age. Please understand, you are likely not what I mean. Someone in college is normally being paid for by someone else. He does not feel the responsibility for himself because typically he is still being told what to do in a lot of ways. When he doesn't do it, he bangs 15 year old girls after getting them drunk. ...wasn't Marcus supposed to learn how to grow up from Mike? heh. In any event, the point is that an 18 to 21 year old boy is emotionally and intellectually fragile - he's still an adolescent. One bad play, one interception, one key fumble lost at the end of a long drive...any of these one events can thoroughly demoralize a team and lead directly to a loss. In short, a good football team can lose to a bad football team relatively easily. Consider how Michigan damn near lost to Ball State. Indeed, the Michigan St Spartans started off the year looking pretty good against, well, Idaho......but after melting down epically to Notre Dame at home, their entire season went to utter shit...losing the next week to Illinois. And by the time they went to Indiana and I got Indy at +260, it seemed like one of those damned near sure things that they'd shit themselves and lose.

So, in short, I measure risk to reward, remove outliers (I wouldn't usually bother to bet Ball St against Michigan - unless I'm a buckeye fan), and that means I'll eyeball things from about +150 to +1200 or so...at the max. Normally, it's up to around 500 or 600. I then remove what I think has no rational chance of winning.

Such as Buffalo at Rutgers. Maybe Barfalo +31.5 might be worth screwing with to some of you...not really to me.

But something like Miami Oh at Ball St for about 2:1 to win might be worth consideration.

Miami, OH +200

The redhawks have 14 returning starters including 8 on Offense. Last year at home, they outgained Ball St 359 to 226 yards, and they still managed to lose. Interestingly, the last 8 games have the Visitor winning 7 of them...for those in the bizarre and possibly useless stats department. Ball St is 2-9 in season openers, and last year they were 5-7 overall. Ball St is 6-2 in their last 8 MAC road games, but last year they also managed to lose to North Dakota St. Nate Davis may do well at QB for Ball St this year, but after the rest of the league saw what the Chippewas did to him, he had a rough time last year.

What does any of this mean? Not a whole fucklot at all. We shall see. In any event, This is the sort of game I look for. I may well play this one...not sure yet, but it's certainly on my radar screen.

Utah St at home +230 to UNLV might be worth messing with as well...

To round out Thursday...

Buffalo, Miss St, Kent St, and UL Monroe give me no interest whatsoever...unless Tulsa is much worse than I think, I may actually be on the chalk in that one.

Utah might be worth some consideration at over 300, but I doubt that'll show up...

for friday, Syracuse at 125 is devoid of bothersome value, and there's no way I'm going to fade Navy at Temple.

Saturday...I like GT to win. I do not like GT +125.

In the Hell Fucking No department, I'm not fading: West Virginia, VPI, Miami(FL), Nebraska, UCLA, TCU, Pitt, Oregon, Auburn, Minny, Wisky, USC, Penn St, Texas, Okiehomo, South Carolina, or Arkansas.

That's 17 that are right out from the beginning.

So I have to ponder betting on:

Alabama-Birmingham @ Michigan St - Spartans hungover from last year?
Duke at home to Connecticut - might the Blue Devils get a win.....?
Wyomingat home to Virginia - I'm still mad about losing this one (+320!)last yr in OT to a damned miss XP.
Northern Illinois at home to Iowa - ...maybe not.
Memphis at home to Ole Miss - but the value blows ass
Georgia Tech @ Notre Dame - and without that useless fuck Reggie Ball
Illinois at home to Missouri - uh, very likely not
Wake Forest @ Boston College - this should be a great game and that often means I shouldn't be involved on the ML
Arizona @ BYU - not sure I want to be fading the mormons either...perhaps this should be on the above list
Army @ Akron - at this point, perhaps Army should be favored. Under may be the best play here.
Central FL @ NC State - I think the wolfpack should be MUCH better this year...doubt there'll be enough value in this one.
Okiehomo St @ Georgia - I actually may be on UGA chalk in this one...a TD strikes me as kinda light. Admittedly, I have not looked at this one too hard yet
Central Michigan @ Kansas - chippewas may be undervalued here. 275 seems awfully tastey...new coaching staff, tho
Colorado St @ Colorado - no value here, really...
Toledo at home to Purdue - will the new coach be as crooked as the old?
Tennessee @ California - vengeance is mine sayith the Vols. I assure you, my local boys remember last year...
UTEP at home to New Mexico - why not? because there's no fucking value...
San Jose St @ Arizona St - SJSU has a bizarre ability to shock and amaze from time to time...perhaps this is one of those. at +425, it might be worth the shot.
MTSU @ Florida Atlantic - I think MTSU should be favored.

I think I have no interest in fading Testicle Tech or FSU on Monday. Amato is back where he belongs co-ordinating a D for FSU. I expect big things out of the Seminoles this year. A certain loss to NCSU, for instance, won't be happening.

And SMU just doesn't give me a hard-on. I'd expect TT to win that one by DD.

I have played nothing as of yet..though I will likely play Miami, OH.
 
Awesome thread red.

First, Ass-munch is still the coach at Toledo...hehe

I'll comment a bit more later but UAB is going to be horrid this year. Horrid.
 
Of that list I like GT and Zona as the ones most likely to win. I think Memphis has a legit shot, OK St is going to make it interesting, CM was a ATS machine, has pretty strong core back, they got a shot at least of covering. I don't know what is going to happen in the Cal game but I guess Tenn is worth a shot.

Do you only play the ML though? I think all of the above dogs have real good shots at covering and a few of them straight up winning. Have you ever done the math to play the side +points for less than the ml to cover you if the ml loses? If they don't cover, you lost the ml anyway but it might work out to have some insurance sometimes and get by with a push.
 
geez BAR...I coulda sworn I heard or read that that fuck got run out for being crooked. Must be my imagination. alas. I watched that motherfucker throw the game against EMU last year. I lost money on that game and couldn't stop laughing.

Do you only play the ML though? I think all of the above dogs have real good shots at covering and a few of them straight up winning. Have you ever done the math to play the side +points for less than the ml to cover you if the ml loses? If they don't cover, you lost the ml anyway but it might work out to have some insurance sometimes and get by with a push.

I play spreads too. I hardly ever play a dog spread, though. Either I lay the spread chalk or I play the ML dog. VERY rarely do I play both spread and ML dog...when I do it's because I think the game will very likely be competitive and I'm getting something like 2 TDs...a game like Hawaii at Boise St last year. I did that. I also bet on the spread 2 or 3x what I did on the ML. Oh man...if Hawaii had won...WOW. It was a damned close game the whole way too.

In any event, I find the instances of a team covering and not winning to be few and far between. It happens.....even enough to bother doing it from time to time. But I much prefer thinking in terms of odds on my money versus odds to win.....rather than trying to decipher by how much a team will win.

Garf, I posted in your thread at c0v3r5. Glad to see you over here, bro.
 
(Edit....Just saw it in your list after I posted but ehhh)

Dogs are fun...good luck to you.


A Dog to check out...BetUS doesn't have moneylines up yet:

'Zona +5.5 @ BYU - BYU lost 5 1st team all conference players. Most important John Beck...they also lost the heir apparent in spring practice and now its Max Hall(soph). Probably going to take a while to settle in and facing arizona's D is a tough first start. Zona returns 10 from a strong Defense. Offensively, they have some issues losing Chris Henry to early draft. Texas Tech's O coordinater is calling the plays now but it will take them a little while to settle in to the spread offense.

I think it will be low scoring and I like the better defense against BYU's inexperienced QB. Last year Zona won 16-13 and I expect a low scoring slug it out game with defenses much better than their opposing O's. I also like under 45.

The computer forecast's hate it. They are laying the line out at 12...so if you follow that type o' thing it might not be for you.


I like a couple of other dogs but I don't think they are good money line plays CMU @ KU; Houston @ Oregon; and Nevada @ Nebraska. Only CMU has a reasonable chance of winning outright.
 
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3wiggler, thanks for the comments, bro. I am indeed looking at Arizona...

Believe, I tend to agree, but GT is damned thin on value.
 
Loved the value we used to be able to get on the pack vs fsu...

there could be some possible value in ucf in the first game, but hopefully the pack will be a lot better this year and win the close games
 
Remember that the Iowa/N. Ill game is not at NIU, it is at Soldier field.

Great thread and like the first pick. I like UCF ML right now, don't understand why NCSU should be so improved this season (with the exception of getting O'Brien).
 
Wolfpack17, I think you and Dmoney might be right about the value.

Dmoney, It's because O'Brien brings to the team exactly what the wolfpack needs and has been lacking - discipline. He might also decide on a better style than to turn defensive linemen into Offensive Tackles and Guards (an Amato HC special!).

Utah St hosting UNLV (currently about +230)

Utah St was 1-11 last year, and they have 19 (8off/11def) returning starters this year. The aggies won the last 3, the last 2 being dogs. In 05 USU won 31-24, and in 04 they won 31-21.

UNLV is 2-12-1 ATS in their last 15 road games.
UNLV is 1-9 SU in their last 10 overall.
UNLV is 0-15 SU in their last 15 on the road.

Somehow, the rebels beat Air Force by 3.

As terrible as Utah St was last year, and as much as I'd like to be optimistic about them, Hinds needs to be healthy this year for this team to look good. They were 2-10 last year with him being injured and less than consistent, and now I see this:

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/9234696.html

Rocky Hinds to sit out UNLV's opener against USU. RS Freshman Travis Dixon to get the start.

This may be my futility bowl for this year...it's the sort of game that UNLV could conceivably obliterate an unready Aggie squad, but I'm thinking a Utah St home opener win cannot be THAT out of the question with UNLV's historic road woes and QB issues.

And getting better than 2:1 on a game like this is exactly what I aim for.

I'm going to have to give UCF some serious thought, too. There are enough questions with NC State that +300 could be worthwhile...
 
I agree that O'Brien is big for this team, but I think the improvement will be much more evident later in the season as opposed to the beginning.

i have to head out, but I'll have more thought on this game later.
 
I think we might have to wait for 2 years to see serious improvement in the wolfpack. There are far too many unanswered questions, and injuries aren't helping. A lot.
 
Great Value Plays

Miami Ohio +200
Kent State +170
Utah +240

Arizona +205
Army +180
UCF +300
CMU +275
 
Bet2Win, thanks for the suggestions...I don't agree so much with Utah and Army, but...well........Please explain to me your interest in Kent St...

Recently, they're 2-27-1 in season openers. Do you have that little respect for ISU at home?

I would want a lot more than $1.70 to back the flashes...
 
I have played

Miami, OH +200 - W
Utah St +230 - L
Arizona +205 - L
Cent. Michigan +282 - L

and
Testicle Tech -9.5 - W
South Carolina -29 (+114) - L
Miss St +19.5 (-102/-110) - L
Iowa -11.5 and -12(+103) - W
ND/GaTech U46 (-115) - W
Virginia -3 (+104) - L
Army/Akron U43.5 - W
Mizzu 2H +.5 - L
 
good stuff, Red. my 3 fav dogs so far are Arizona, Colorado St, and GT.

agree, no value on Colorado St...and i jsut took the +3 there. prolly no value on GT either...but i did a bit on that ML, as well as the +3.
AZ though i feel has a ton of value on that ML. Check out jpicks posts on this game.
 
RB...good stuff as always.

What's your takes on Kansas State, Washington State and Oklahoma State? I know they are in your hell no department but I think these teams have a legitimate shot of winning..especially KSU.
 
Yanks, I can't fault ya for taking GT on the ML. It just doesn't fit in with the rest of my ML style.....it would be more like a spread play for me - expecting tech to win rather than getting value on the unexpected. Arizona is a distinct possibility. Jpicks ain't the only feller with compelling discussion of them.

:shake:

Huntdog, They may have a legitimate shot at winning, but I just don't see Auburn, Wisconsin, or Georgia losing their home openers. I want more than what I'm being offered by 5dimes and the Greek, in any event.

OSU +235
KSU +425
Wazzou +500

I think Okiehomo St might be close to right, but I would want a few more cents to be content with it...and I wouldn't hold out much hope for it to cash. K State...I think that ought to be a couple dollars more......and again, low hope in my mind to cash. Wazzou...maybe. Again, I'd want over a dollar more....

They're being damned tight on the MLs...so it works out to no plays for me.

If you think Wazzou and K State have a 1 in 3 chance to win their respective games, then It ought to be worthwhile to you, but you shouldn't be at all surprised if they both lose.

....just my opinion.

I have played:

Testicle Tech -9.5
Army/Akron U43.5
 
K. ST. has a real problem at offensive line. According to their head coach, they don't have a left guard on their team.
 
thanks RB..I see what you mean.

I think there is value in WSU and KSU but that's just my opinion.
 
Arizona +205 apparently I do indeed want to fade the mormons. I'll just hope the war dance doesn't injure Tuitama before the game even gets started. Even with all the trouble last year, Arizona managed to beat the mormons........BYU has less this year, especially breaking in a new QB, and I think 2:1 for the Wildkitties is pretty good here. Then consider all the players more recently lost for the mormons...I really like my 2:1.

Cubsker, that's a key hole in that O line.....thanks for mentioning it.

Jump, I do like that scrappy Illinois team, and I expect them to do better than 2-10 this year(I see 4 likely, perhaps even 6 winnable games), but I don't believe it will start versus the Tigers. I'm a believer in Chase Daniel, and with 9 returning O starters, I wouldn't expect them to miss a beat offensively. Illinois is 6-2 last 8 season openers...the two losses were to Missouri in St Louis - and Illinois hasn't won in Missouri in 30 years. Ick. I might be liable to wager on Pussies against the illini...probly not. But that's where I'd lean there.

Huntdog, I don't want to talk you out of em. Especially Washington St. If at some point Matchbook opens up for ML business (I sure as fuck hope they will), then you may get some seriously good value on those.

I do think Troystacks has a good point...if you can't get 6:1, then perhaps playing the points is a better style for those games. Matador and I were talking about that with Bowling Green. On a 16.5pt spread, the cheap motherfuckers are only offering 450 and 500 on the ML. That's the sort of shit that actually pisses me off. That's a little like charging -200 on a bet that should be -105.

So perhaps Wash St and K State would be good with +2 TDs each instead of the ML...?
 
yeah....it's just tough for me to place value on something....i learn a lot from your threads.

i might just stick with the points then.
 
You could also put your usual amount on the points and then one-fifth of that on the ML if you really think they've got a reasonable shot at it. Then if they win, you get a nice payoff, but if they lose and still cover, you still get paid pretty well.
 
Good point RB...I might just do that, throw a small amount on ML, bigger on spread.

Thanks for the advice.
 
I know a good bit about Ole Piss football, and I think Memphis is a very live dog.

I don't understand why Tx Tech is only -9.5 to SMU, but I like it!
 
Blue Chip, please go into some detail about Memphis being a live dog. Is Ole Piss actually worse than last year?
 
Just a quick opinion. I agree with Blue Chip, think Memphis is a live dog..

Ole Miss is going to try to pound the ball and they did a good job of that last yr getting 240yards vs. Memphis but they are 1 dimensional. They are arguably the worst team in the SEC and 1-9 on the road under Orgeron. Who knows what is going on at QB, I just don't see anything bright out of their season except at RB
 
Memphis couldn't seem to get it together for anything last year. I know Ole Miss isn't that great, especially considering the competition they'll have to face this year, but I think you guys overestimate Memphis...Steele seems to think Memphis will be one of the most improved this year, but I think they'll have a tough time winning against an SEC opponent...compete? Perhaps. Win? ...I think perhaps not so much. I was a huge Deanglo Williams fan when he was there...and I think they missed the hell out of him last year. Perhaps they still are.

I actually think the line here is about right, and I want no part of it. If you guys play it, good luck to you!
 
red your threads are one of my favorite during the football season..love the dog style you employ and do well at...good luck this year bud...

i give ucf about a 30-40% chance to win outright at state
 
wolf..RB's threads are honestly a must read, your right...I always am learning everytime I pop one of these threads open from RB. Thanks RB.
 
So red if you think underdog has at least a 40% chance of winning, then what is the positive juice you are looking for? +200? You do an outstanding job on the value of ML's and I will defintely tail some of your plays this year.
 
Hunt, wolfpack, you guys are too kind.

orange&white, +200 would be great for a 40% chance of winning. At +200, you need to win over 33%. I'm probably not the guy to be tailing - a lot of my plays lose, and my goal is to hit 38%.
 
Hunt, wolfpack, you guys are too kind.

orange&white, +200 would be great for a 40% chance of winning. At +200, you need to win over 33%. I'm probably not the guy to be tailing - a lot of my plays lose, and my goal is to hit 38%.

38% is good for ML dogs though.
 
red- well, we see that Miami-Testicle U game alike.
I had to settle for +195
I'll have a few more between now and kick off.
GL to ya.:cheers:
 
Taurus, I'm lookin forward to seeing your plays.

I also took Michigan -23.5 (-115) for $100. It's almost not worth thinking about...

I am extremely annoyed that 5dimes is severely limiting action on these; I can only guess they took something of a bath in them last year. Or perhaps I'll be able to wager more come the end of next week. One can hope.
 
good to see ya on AZ, Red.

hunt had a thread on the UM game. when the line came out at -21, we spoke a bit about it...then posted here later. i wish u luck, obviously...but as sexy as it looked at first glance, lookign into it further kept me off the game. UM's gotta a helluva next 3 games/weeks in store, so it's almost a preseason tuneup...where they won't show all that much, imo.
 
With BYU's problems and Tuitama having a shred of a chance at health, this is one I think I'm getting essentially free odds on, and those are my favorites.

last year the line was -21 at NCSU...and of course ASU covered. Even at -24, I simply refuse to believe Michigan is only 3pts better than (last year's) NCSU team. I guess missing the discussion is what I get for being slow to get into this forum this year. Alas. Perhaps my passing familiarity with App yields me far more contempt for them than the masses here...

:shake:
 
Redbearde, how you doing? Good to see you back.

Well I think you've just about convinced me to play Miami Ohio. I was leaning towards staying away but what the hell they're two pretty equal MAC teams, I guess I got to play it, LOL.
I'm on Arizona with you as well and probably Army.
The only other one I'll for sure be on is GTech. I'm waiting for the MLs at Matchbook to put that one in. Hopefully I can get +135.

Syracuse is very tempting to me also. UW loses a lot and you have a new QB making his first start in one of the most hostile environments in the country. Better teams that Washington have lost there the last couple years.

Good luck man. Hope you have a great season. 'an_horse'
 
macdamn, I asked MB for college foots MLs yesterday. Don't hold your breath on ever seeing them. They want someone to commit to seeding the exchange at $500 per side before they'll put them up...I thoroughly do not understand that reasoning.

I like GT with you, but I thoroughly despise taking such small MLs...probly going to let that one pass. Since Syracuse's horrible season a couple years ago, my bigotry keeps me from backing them until I see some semblance of consistency on Not Sucking Ass...good luck with those.

Magic, reason must prevail. I think UVA is likely better than last year, and I just can't bet on Duke football to WIN...I just can't.
 
For the record...I tentatively like the looks of

Toledo ML
G Tech ML
Wake Forest ML

Of those, I am unlikely to play any of them. Yet if value rises, then I might be forced into it. I can see any of those teams winning straight up, but the numbers are mildly tight (GT especially), and I want a bit more than what's offered. ...Lookin forward to tomorrow, gents.
 
GL to you on the season Redbearde. I'm sure you are pleased with O'Brien being hired at NCST. :cheers:
 
thanks YesSir.

Timh, I'm not sure how it'll go this year, but in another 2 I expect consistent bowl eligible seasons....and I'm VERY happy Amato is back DC'ing like he should be...
 
Good thing I added that travesty of shit. I have GOT to stop watching Dr Bob's effect on lines...course, who knew Henig would be playing for LSU tonight..?

Miami won. Utah St lost. Kinda figured one would.......very much hoped they'd both win, and USU got wiped all over the field in the 2H...the only reason they scored was a gift from UNLV. Alas. Still, I'd bet that again.

...Miss St.......not so much.
 
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