Bolting for Europe

t-dot · Jun 24, 2008

Alarming trend is starting to take place in the NBA. Euroleague teams are now poaching players on NBA rosters for alot of cash $$$. NBA teams have been luring the best Euro players for the past few years. But now European powerhouse teams are looking to be a viable option

So far, Navarro went over for a lucrative deal.
Garbajosa HAD to be bought out and is close to signing for Unicaja.
Luis Scola is being pursued by Panathinaikos
Delfino is being pursued by a couple of teams.
Anthony Parker just got offered 21 Euros (11 mill US/year) for 3 years from Olympiacos.

Scola, Parker and Garbo were still under contract with their respective teams when approached.

NBA teams cant compete with the kind of money these teams are throwing at them.

As far as I know, European players could file for retirement and then just join their European Club.

Seabass · Jun 24, 2008

Right now its just happening to guys who have started over in Europe or are European...

but I wonder what happens when these guys start offering big time dollars for guys like Eddie House...

slayer202 · Jun 24, 2008

I don't see anything good coming out of it. The only possibilities are a decrease in talent in the NBA, or increased salaries

t-dot · Jun 24, 2008

All those contract figures are NET salary. Housing, car, and taxes are paid by the clubs.

Star players will never leave, but it will leave alot of teams with a poor bench.

It will be interesting how this shapes the draft. There is a rookie cap in the NBA, so there is nothing preventing a team like Olympiacos paying top dollar for a guy like Kevin Love to head to Europe (financially) instead of playing for alot less in the NBA.

Fondybadger · Jun 25, 2008

Thing this will just evolve into super leagues where NBA/new league is in almost every country kind of like some of the soccer leagues.

Greencastle · Jun 25, 2008

I dont think it's gonna be a major issue.

They may be able to overpay and sign a player who isnt making a big impact in the NBA, but the better quality players will remain.

KSUVOLS4LIFE · Jun 25, 2008

Greencastle said:
I dont think it's gonna be a major issue.

They may be able to overpay and sign a player who isnt making a big impact in the NBA, but the better quality players will remain.

agreed, no decent to good american player will bounce outta the states unless the contract is unreal

Greencastle · Jun 25, 2008

Did you guys hear about that star highschool player who's going to play professionally in Europe as an 18 year old, instead of going to an NCAA team for a year and then bolting for the draft?

Apparently he's good enough rite now to get drafted, and wants to make some real cash, instead of playing for "free" in college.

Interesting situation.

slayer202 · Jun 25, 2008

Greencastle said:
Did you guys hear about that star highschool player who's going to play professionally in Europe as an 18 year old, instead of going to an NCAA team for a year and then bolting for the draft?

Apparently he's good enough rite now to get drafted, and wants to make some real cash, instead of playing for "free" in college.

Interesting situation.

that's very interesting. I guess that could become a more common move, especially with the kids that aren't planning on playing 4 years/graduating in college

sportjunky · Jun 25, 2008

brandon jennings. he committed to zona but scored really high on his second attempt at the SAT which raised a red flag which puts his eligibility for next season is in question.

divol · Jun 30, 2008

Greek newspapers are talking about Ilgauskas/Jamison/Artest to perhaps sign with Pana and Hayes/Morris Evans to sign with Olympiacos. If that will happen, it really would be something we haven't seen before...

B.A.R. · Jun 30, 2008

divol said:
Greek newspapers are talking about Ilgauskas/Jamison/Artest to perhaps sign with Pana and Hayes/Morris Evans to sign with Olympiacos. If that will happen, it really would be something we haven't seen before...

wow

Goopster24 · Jul 1, 2008

Source?

divol · Jul 1, 2008

The source is in Hebrew, but that just a rumor for now anyway.

alx468 · Jul 7, 2008

Yeah!! that is good news indeed at least basketball will be making a bit of headway into Europes..If that happens the FIBA tournaments will more or less be like the UEFA or Euro whatever....

t-dot · Jul 23, 2008

The top HS player in the country and now Childress.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/07/23/childress_hawks_greece.html

Seabass · Jul 23, 2008

Now t-dot, you say that Childress's quoted salary is post-tax because of the way things work over there...

but correct me if I'm wrong - doesn't he have to pay American income tax, too?

alx468 · Jul 23, 2008

He got a really good deal... With perks like these..

The Euroleague contract includes some bona fide perks, like living expenses, luxury accommodations, a chauffeur and maid service. He can also decide, each summer, whether to return to the NBA as a restricted free agent, without worrying about buy-outs. Taken as a whole, it's pretty easy to see why he accepted the offer from Greece.

(with the exchange rate and tax differential) nearly twice as much as the Hawks were willing to pay.

t-dot · Jul 24, 2008

Seabass said:
Now t-dot, you say that Childress's quoted salary is post-tax because of the way things work over there...

but correct me if I'm wrong - doesn't he have to pay American income tax, too?

I know some Yanks who work overseas, most of them dont have to pay tax as long as they pay the tax in the country they work in. In this case the Club pays the tax Childress's tax on top of his salary.

brewer · Jul 24, 2008

Jamison would be MJ over there.

hile75 · Jul 24, 2008

You can almost guarantee this will be happening more and more with what these Euro teams can offer to players

MemphisFan · Jul 24, 2008

I'm waiting for the day lower-tier NBA players have sex-changes in order to play in the WNBA.

Speaking of which, is there a transsexual WNBA rule?

alx468 · Jul 24, 2008

MemphisFan said:
I'm waiting for the day lower-tier NBA players have sex-changes in order to play in the WNBA.

Speaking of which, is there a transsexual WNBA rule?

:36_11_6:

alx468 · Jul 24, 2008

Russian franchise Khimki BC has signed former Raptors forward Jorge Garbajosa two a two-year contract.
The Raptors and Garbajosa parted ways after more than a year of bickering about insurance, an injury he suffered with Spain's national team and then aggravated with the Raptors. He may never be at full strength again and isn't a likely candidate to return to the NBA. He'll be teammates with Carlos Delfino.

alx468 · Jul 25, 2008

Lakers guard Sasha Vujacic is prepared to leave the team and accept an offer from a European team in the next few days if the Lakers don't make him an offer he deems fair, according to a source.
The source said Vujacic is seeking a multiyear deal from the Lakers averaging about $5 million a year. Vujacic was hoping for a six-year deal, but anticipated it could be a shorter contract. If Vujacic goes overseas, and it's a real possibility, the Lakers will certainly miss his outside shooting. Their depth will also be hurt by the loss of Ronny Turiaf and Vujacic. And with the trend of solid NBA players heading out of the country and the referee scandal, David Stern is going to have his hands full in the upcoming months.
Source: Los Angeles Times

alx468 · Jul 25, 2008

Rockets restricted free agent Carl Landry is considering playing overseas, according to his agent.
"Carl would entertain all serious offers...both other NBA teams and internationally," said agent Buddy Baker. Landry might still feel slighted by the Rockets' insistence that he undergo further testing on his right knee. Either way, it's obvious that the Rockets aren't in the driver's seat in negotiations -- if Landry accepts an offer to play in Europe, the Rockets have no opportunity to match -and you can officially consider the Euro-floodgates opened.
Source: Houston Chronicle

H.R. Pufnstuf · Jul 25, 2008

Delonte West considering Europe too.

hile75 · Jul 25, 2008

Names seem to be getting bigger and bigger that could bolt....If Vujacic goes i think that'd be a huge step in seeing more players go

YesSir · Jul 25, 2008

Reports around here say that a Russian team is real close to inking Delonte West to a big deal

Basketbolists · Jul 25, 2008

YesSir said:
Reports around here say that a Russian team is real close to inking Delonte West to a big deal

It is not real close. They have offered him 2 year contract I think. But it is hard to understand whether it was 10 mil $ a year or 10 mil $ over 2 years.

Anyway, here are some thoughts of mine about this case and how I think this is blown out of proportion.

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ther; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:186; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> It looks like just after Childress struck a deal with Oly all of a sudden there are options for NBA players oversees, but to be fair – it all is just a fiction. Most of those guys who are said to be drawing interest are guys making or eyeing 5M$ a year in NBA. That is just impossible. There are not many teams in Europe who actually have that money to go after that kind of talent.
3-4 teams in Russia, 2 clubs in Greece, Maybe 1-2 clubs in Italy, but I am not buying that any of them would spend that much money, 3-4 clubs tops in Spain. Maccabi also has capability and if money goes to some other club, but max one as well. Turkey has maybe some option, but they are notoriously known to have loads of midlevel Americans and loads of local youth talent, so I doubt that any club would suddenly break the bank for them. Germany, France or any other country in Europe, No chance. So all in all, we are looking realistically at around 10-13 clubs here and many of them have already formed the lines how they will look next season. Agent of course are jumping on this ship and trying to sell the idea to managers in NBA and you never know who might buy that fact.
But this season salaries in Europe for players have gone up insanely, almost twice since everyone is fighting for talent and everyone wants to win here and having no salary cap just helps.
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For example, there are reports according to „source” that Biedrins has 3 Russian clubs interested in him – one of the most respected and infuential guys in Russian basketball Tarakanov has said that he has not heard anything about it and that most likely that is just a bluff by Filipovic and BDA to force GSW to spice the offer up. 48M$ for 6 years looks short compared to other guys with his performance. But 60M$ for 5 years that they are asking is a bit too steep to say the least. Of course, big men are more valuable than guards in this league. So no wonder they are expecting to be paid and with no legit big man GSW has to look at it seriously.

For example, people say that Europe is shooters league and stuff like that. But I can say one thing - Biedrins would be a beast in Europe with his skill set. He can play with the ball and he proved that against best players in Europe past summer already, simply GSW does not use him that way and do not have confidence in him in offense. Biedrins could be pretty much top3 pure center in Europe for sure considering the guys who are there at the moment.

But as I said - after Childress struck a deal - agent are jumping on this bandwagon even though I am pretty sure that there is no ground for it, since there are simply not enough suitors for guy like that...

alx468 · Jul 26, 2008

Cavaliers restricted free agent Delonte West is considering a two-year, $10 million contract offer from Dynamo Moscow.
This is a groundbreaking summer for European basketball -- West isn't sure to accept the offer, but most restricted free agents are at least pondering the possibilities of playing overseas. So far the Cavaliers have only offered West a $2.76 million qualifying offer, which would make him an unrestricted free agent next season. His departure would be tough for the Cavs to absorb, since they're not exactly stacked at PG.

alx468 · Jul 28, 2008

According to an Israeli web site, the Russian media is reporting that Nets' restricted free agent Nenad Krstic has agreed to terms with Dynamo Moscow Regional, and will play for the team in the upcoming season.
The article speculates that the contract is probably for one season with a one-year option. Krstic is currently competing for Serbia in an international tournament being held in Moscow. And if it's true, Josh Boone, Sean Williams and Brook Lopez are all going to see a boost in value. Keep an eye on this situation in training camp.

divol · Jul 29, 2008

Jason Williams from the Heat was offered to Maccabi, but he demands 3 mill per season and that is much more than Maccabi are willing to pay any player. Catz is a partial owner both in Maccabi and the Heat so maybe that will bring this deal to a closure, but still, another big name is not only ready to play in Europe, but even suggests himself...

Gorgolon Lives · Jul 29, 2008

If Ben Gordon goes to Europe, Chicago is just dumb.

lifesallover · Jul 30, 2008

Is it just me or are must these players that are "Bolting" for Europe, fringe bench players at best with the exception of Childress? Garbojosa, Parker, Navarro, Kristic. Lets be real you have a guy who had a decent rookie year, and then got injured; a mediocre player in Parker who can knock down a three and play some defense. A scorer who wasn't really that effective in Navarro; and a guy who strung together a couple OK seasons that made one think "what if..", except he never stayed healthy, and never hit the glass like a PF should.

I don't know what the fuss is about. Losing players like them, to me makes the NBA better. Survival of the fittest folks. If you want to play in the nba, be a somebody and a difference maker, otherwise take your mediocre ass overseas and make some money. Congratulations, by all means, follow the money, because your not that great to begin with. I don't want anyone of those players on my team, IMO they aren't good enough, and certainly aren't worth 9mil, fuck 3mil. Delonte West? Seriously? Could you have it any better? A nonpg, playing pg for LBJ, get your head out of your ass, you were splitting time with Luke Ridnour and Earl Watson on a sub.500 team before your ass got dealt, you should be so lucky. Jason Williams??? Didn't realize he was relevant past 99-01 Kings when he actually entertained people, now he's a below average point gaurd with no jumpshot, congratulations. Carl Landry, you were a 2nd round pick, get some gauranteed money and be happy.

Im sick of mediocre players dictating whether or not my product is getting stolen from me. That just means more minutes for those who deserve it.

Get paid, by all means, I'm happy for it, but don't tell me the NBA is embarking on a new era. Tell me that when a max contract player bolts for better money. I'll be interested then. Until that point in time, enjoy your 1st round "projects" who weren't worth a shit to us Europe. Give them 9 million to add to your mediocre product you put out every night, this isn't the fucking W.NBA

divol · Jul 30, 2008

I disagree with many that claim that bolting for Europe trend shouldn't affect Stern of the NBA. Garnett or Duncan won't be playing in Euroleague of course, but we can easily see how many teams last season struggled since they didn't have a bench (Hornets and the Suns as an example). That will also cause all the small time players to get much bigger salary, since he will show the multi million offer from Europe to the GM and GM will have to offer more money. The one year period for a HS players will also bring many players to Europe and will make them part of the European market. The only question is, for how long will European teams be spending all that money. Almost all of the teams in Europe finish the season with a hole in the budget, so most of the millions spent on the players, the owners won't see them. But there are multi time millioners that for them it simply a toy to play with...
So, if Europe will be able to put such high contract offers for 4 - 5 years, NBA will be in trouble, but if this trend will vanish after this season or the next, it won't have any affect.

alx468 · Jul 30, 2008

The Suns are hoping that second-round draft pick Goran Dragic will join the team this season.
If he stays in Europe, the team will likely have to make a move for another point guard. Sam Cassell, Carlos Arroyo, Jason Williams and Shaun Livingston are free agents, although Arroyo and Williams could be heading for Europe. And as for Livingston, he still hasn't been cleared to play basketball after knee surgery.
Source: East Valley Tribune

alx468 · Jul 30, 2008

divol said:
I disagree with many that claim that bolting for Europe trend shouldn't affect Stern of the NBA. Garnett or Duncan won't be playing in Euroleague of course, but we can easily see how many teams last season struggled since they didn't have a bench (Hornets and the Suns as an example). That will also cause all the small time players to get much bigger salary, since he will show the multi million offer from Europe to the GM and GM will have to offer more money. The one year period for a HS players will also bring many players to Europe and will make them part of the European market. The only question is, for how long will European teams be spending all that money. Almost all of the teams in Europe finish the season with a hole in the budget, so most of the millions spent on the players, the owners won't see them. But there are multi time millioners that for them it simply a toy to play with...
So, if Europe will be able to put such high contract offers for 4 - 5 years, NBA will be in trouble, but if this trend will vanish after this season or the next, it won't have any affect.

:shake: we shouldnt hold it against these players if they seek greener pastures elsewhere. Basketball like any professional sport is a limited career, 10-15 years tops, these players need the best deals in the shortest possible time. They know the good times wont last forever.

Anyway I think this is a good thing overall for the NBA. Eventually NBA Europe will become a reality and the Euros will realize what they have been missing for the past 50 years..An exciting, exhilarating type of sport....none of the 90 minute or 2 tv hour sport of ZZZzzzzzzzZZZ with a NIL NIL score that will go for another 30 tv minutes because of Free kicks ZZZzzzzZZZ....... It doesnt mean if its a hundred year tradition of boringness that its suppose to be followed and worshipped...

The Europeans deserve a better kind of professional sport thats entertaining for the 1st mintute to the 48th minute and wont give a 0-0 score.....:36_11_6:

alx468 · Aug 4, 2008

Magic backup point guard Carlos Arroyo has reportedly signed with Israeli powerhouse Maccabi Tel-Aviv.
Arroyo's agent, Leon Rose, confirmed the signing to ESPN.com on Sunday night. Arroyo was not expected back with Orlando this season after falling out of the rotation again last year. Anthony Johnson is the only back up for starter Jameer Nelson at this point, so the Magic are still looking for another guard.
Source: ESPN.com

Greencastle · Aug 4, 2008

Remember when Arroyo was schooling the US at the Olympics a few years ago and throwing up gang signs after every other play.

But I don't think there's gonna be much of that shit going on in Isreal.

alx468 · Aug 5, 2008

Guard Earl Boykins has signed a one-year contract with Italy's Virtus Bologna.
Boykins is expected to be paid $3.5 million for this season making him Italy's highest-paid player. While the NBA isn't going to sweat losing so many marginally talented players, the image of "everyone" leaving is probably not sitting well with David Stern. And if a big name like Kobe or LeBron ever does take the bait, you can be sure that all heck will break loose.
Source: ESPN.com

bamagirl39 · Aug 7, 2008

slayer202 said:
I don't see anything good coming out of it. The only possibilities are a decrease in talent in the NBA, or increased salaries

Me too.

alx468 · Aug 9, 2008

Kobe Bryant spoke about his ties to Italy on Friday, saying that for $50 million he would "probably" play for an Italian team.
In 1999, Bryant acquired a 50% stake in the Olimpia Milano team of the Italian Professional Basketball League. "Milan or something like that, where I grew up...Peace out," Bryant said. "Because I grew up in Italy it has more significance to me...I’ve been there and I still have friends there. I’m thinking about buying a house out there." Mitch Kupchak, Jerry Buss and David Stern are all breaking out in a cold sweat, but we still think it's a longshot that Kobe, in his prime, will leave the NBA so that he can decimate the lesser competition of the Italian league. Only time (and $50 million?) will tell.
Source: Boston Globe

alx468 · Aug 9, 2008

Its not economically feasible for these teams to shell out so much cash on a single investment...Its just bad business...It probably more of pride than economics...

alx468 · Aug 11, 2008

Free agent guard Flip Murray has reportedly been offered a two-year, $5 million contract from Dynamo Moscow.
Murray has received interest from the Mavericks and Wizards, but it's unlikely either team would pay him more than $2.5 million per season. Dynamo Moscow is also interested in Jannero Pargo, who is still considering a roughly $2 million offer from the Spurs. Pargo is likely to sign with an NBA team, but as with so many other free agents this summer he is using the European offer as leverage.
Source: News-Herald

alx468 · Aug 12, 2008

Free agent point guard Dan Dickau has reportedly signed a contract with the Italian team Avellino.
"We have nothing to envy of any other playmaker that arrived in Italy this year," said club president Vincenzo Ercolino. Dickau played for six different teams in his six NBA seasons.

wreck · Aug 15, 2008

Free agent guard Jannero Pargo has reached an agreement in principle with Moscow Dynamo for a one-year contract worth about $4 million.

Pargo had been 'leveraging' European offers for a while, and obviously it was no bluff. The Hornets wanted to re-sign Pargo at first, but after signing James Posey there just wasn't enough money left to interest him. Pargo joins Bostjan Nachbar in Moscow, but don't be surprised if he resurfaces in the NBA next season. Aug. 15 - 1:42 pm et

alx468 · Aug 21, 2008

Former Heat center Earl Barron has agreed to a one-year contract with the Italian team Fortitudo Bologna.
Barron will make close to $2 million in Europe, more than a third-tier center would command in the NBA. The Heat didn't even try to re-sign him, which says a lot considering they are thinking about signing Jamaal Magloire, Lorenzen Wright or D.J. Mbenga.
Source: Miami Herald

alx468 · Sep 3, 2008

Ben Gordon has reportedly been talking with the Russian team CSKA Moscow. No details are available, though one source reports that Gordon would have to accept around $5.5 million for a one-year deal.
Gordon has a standing six-year, $59 million offer from the Bulls, and he could also accept Chicago's one-year, $6.5 million qualifying offer. The Bulls obviously don't want to lose their leading scorer and three-point threat, but they aren't panicking -- Gordon has said repeatedly that he doesn't want to leave the NBA, and the Bulls retain his rights no matter what. It is possible that he's using CSKA Moscow as leverage, but he might actually find playing overseas preferable to one awkward season with the Bulls. Training camp opens in 25 days, so we'll find out soon enough.

slayer202 · Sep 4, 2008

fucking ben gordon. go play in europe for less money, and then take even less when you come back to the nba. although it probably won't help that he might dominate over there.

And reading through the thread I noticed something. It was kind of big news when kobe said he would consider playing in italy, if he was getting paid like 50 mil. but then boykins signed and was italy's highest paid player at 3.5 million. Unless there are non-italian league teams in italy?

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