Better player - Lebron James or Tim Duncan?
- Thread starter RetroVK
- Start date
Fondybadger
CTG Partner
I think a lot can be said for playing for one team during a career.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Lebron has done enough to at least be in the conversation. You think different?
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
He’d eat. And all time great passer out of the paint.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
I think it is close too. I would definitely take Duncan if I had a choice though .. mainly because of what we know regarding loyalty. Lebron will take off on a whim after you have bent over backwards for him. Duncan more about the team and organization. So with the on the court ability being similar in level (though not in style obviously), I would go with the better human.
As for what Duncan would do in today's NBA, you would have to think as good as or better than what he did vs other big fellas. And his big fella game also translates a little better to some of todays game given that he could make that mid range bank shot in his prime like it was nothing.
Eazyduzit
UK 8 KU 3
The human aspect is another reason I like Duncan. Good point. But Lebron is a much better person than Kobe, too.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Lebron hand picked his coaches
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Not a high bar.
He hand picked Mike brown? I don't think so.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
I love that type of argument .. Lebron couldn't do what he does now if they played defense like they did when Duncan came in the league (from a rules perspective I mean). And when he drove to the basket he would run into bigs that he doesn't have to worry about now.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Bron been in the league since 2003 vk. Not much separation between the two.ok 6 years. A little separation. Bron basketball iq is so high. He would pass more. He would find a way to adapt.
Two very different circumstances and different organizations. Spurs organizations is worlds better than cavs. Let's be real. Plus they already had David Robinson.
It's a slam dunk in my opinion. Not even a question.
I legit get into arguments where people tell me I’m nuts and I refuse to back down about this guy.
But I truly believe Tim Duncan is the most overrated player in the history of the league. He is the definition of a compiler that NEEDED great teammates a HOF genius coach and clutch teammate after clutch teammate to step up down the stretch for so many of those ships.
Name the big shot you’ll never forget Duncan hitting to win the game. I recall one...the 3 vs Phx with Shaq in their playoff series.
Now name all the other SA players who hit huge shots on TD teams...there’s a fucking scroll of dudes who have.
Tell me I’m nuts, used to it.
But I truly believe Tim Duncan is the most overrated player in the history of the league. He is the definition of a compiler that NEEDED great teammates a HOF genius coach and clutch teammate after clutch teammate to step up down the stretch for so many of those ships.
Name the big shot you’ll never forget Duncan hitting to win the game. I recall one...the 3 vs Phx with Shaq in their playoff series.
Now name all the other SA players who hit huge shots on TD teams...there’s a fucking scroll of dudes who have.
Tell me I’m nuts, used to it.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
What big shot did Lebron hit?
And we talk about super teams now because Lebron couldn't do it without colluding with his buddies in south beach
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
There are better arguments in there than out here, that is for sure
Kyle, stop. C’mon. You can make a lot of cases for TD, but LeBron single-handedly willed his weaker teams to victory back when he scored 24 in a quarter in G5 vs the Stones as a pup or dropped 50+ in the Finals vs GS with a team of bozis.
For the record, this isn’t a love fest for LeBron, I fucking HATE that prick. He’s an arrogant, ignorant douche...but he presented a physical mismatch with size, speed and strength allowing him to play all 5 positions on both ends of the court.
He’s probably underrated all-time for how talented he is. Too bad I think his egocentric personality force-fed the teams he was on to catering to him EVERY FUCKING TIME HE BITCHED (which is always).
Dude may have been the GOAT if he put his ego aside and allowed himself to actually be coached into being a better player. But his lovefest for himself is so sick he thinks people are stupid and doesn’t know he is actually player, coach and GM.
His arrogance is his biggest downfall. And I agree with you he picks his teammates and has for years. He loved Mike Brown...until he didn’t.
Eazyduzit
UK 8 KU 3
Embiid is solid but I’d prefer AD or the Greek Freak.
Head to head playoffs:
Duncan 2
James 1
H2H Regular Season
10-10
Rings:
Duncan 5
James 3
Finals MVP's:
Duncan 3
James 3
Regular Season MVP:
Duncan 2
James 4
All-Defensive Teams:
Duncan 15
James 6
I won't compare stats until/unless James plays a few 'dead seasons' at the end of his career so we can fully compare.
Lets ask Lebron 5 years ago
I have no position here myself. We can look back 5 years ago and it was still a very hot debate about Kobe and Lebron. James is still in our everyday lives... so we are conditioned to think more highly perhaps?
Comparing eras is tough as well. You could put David Robinson in this era and he would be an absolute freak averaging around 30-15 min a game, and he was Duncan's teammate.
Going to the point of being clutch late in games.... Scarf may well be correct... but...more times than not maybe Duncan made the key defensive play/key pick/ or helped facilitate a game-winning play in other ways. It isn't as easy for a big man to be the 'man' in a late game situation as it is the 1-2-3 spots on the floor. Also, I'd like to see how many more times James has 'had' to make a big shot late in a game than Duncan or others.
I think a good authority on big-men in the modern era is Shaq. He bridged the 80's era with the 00's era. Ask him about Duncan...
Meanwhile, as I have said for years... Lebron is the hybrid Malone/Magic. We haven't see anything like him when he came into the league.
My last point, the James 'aura' has flourished the past 3 years or so...maybe 4...
Duncan 2
James 1
H2H Regular Season
10-10
Rings:
Duncan 5
James 3
Finals MVP's:
Duncan 3
James 3
Regular Season MVP:
Duncan 2
James 4
All-Defensive Teams:
Duncan 15
James 6
I won't compare stats until/unless James plays a few 'dead seasons' at the end of his career so we can fully compare.
Lets ask Lebron 5 years ago
I have no position here myself. We can look back 5 years ago and it was still a very hot debate about Kobe and Lebron. James is still in our everyday lives... so we are conditioned to think more highly perhaps?
Comparing eras is tough as well. You could put David Robinson in this era and he would be an absolute freak averaging around 30-15 min a game, and he was Duncan's teammate.
Going to the point of being clutch late in games.... Scarf may well be correct... but...more times than not maybe Duncan made the key defensive play/key pick/ or helped facilitate a game-winning play in other ways. It isn't as easy for a big man to be the 'man' in a late game situation as it is the 1-2-3 spots on the floor. Also, I'd like to see how many more times James has 'had' to make a big shot late in a game than Duncan or others.
I think a good authority on big-men in the modern era is Shaq. He bridged the 80's era with the 00's era. Ask him about Duncan...
Meanwhile, as I have said for years... Lebron is the hybrid Malone/Magic. We haven't see anything like him when he came into the league.
My last point, the James 'aura' has flourished the past 3 years or so...maybe 4...
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
I am not saying he isn't great, though. We are comparing two great players.
Lebron has a shot at kareem if he can stay healthy and interested (I think he will stay healthy at this point and it will be hard for him to pass on the opportunity if he can pass Kareem) as far as most points ever. But TD is at 14 in that category. I wont ding lebron for all the turnovers for the same reason I wont give him as much credit as some do for his assists but he could potentially end his career as the turnover king (so to speak), though career turnover lists are going to be a who's who of great players. TD is fifth all time in blocked shots. TD is sixth all time in rebounds. TD has 5 NBA Championships to Lebron's 3. 3 Finals MVP's to Lebron's 3. Both won rookie of the year. TD 2 regular season MVP's and Lebron 4. TD was all defensive team more times than any player in NBA history .. 15 times.
LOL
Stop
'Super Team'?
Manu 57th pick in the draft
Parker 28th pick in the draft
--------------------------------------------------
Super Teams were 70's Lakers, 80's Lakers and 80's Celtics due to shrewd trades etc.
Again, no dog in the fight but two points here...
1. Again, James is more liable to have the ball in his hands.
2. People tend to forget LeBron quitting in playoffs more than once.
Not a super team like today, but as close as you could get to one in late 90s early 2000s.
Bron definitely isn't known for game winners. He's known for taking over a whole game though. Or a whole quarter. At least 10x in playoffs.
He's been to 8 straight finals. With shit coaches, I might add. Pretty impressive.
If you want to use stats how many triple doubles has td had? This is just a ridiculous argument. Dunno why I got baited, but I did.
Bron definitely isn't known for game winners. He's known for taking over a whole game though. Or a whole quarter. At least 10x in playoffs.
He's been to 8 straight finals. With shit coaches, I might add. Pretty impressive.
If you want to use stats how many triple doubles has td had? This is just a ridiculous argument. Dunno why I got baited, but I did.
Stats for comparing anything NBA have to be taken with a grain of salt since Silver took over, especially.
This goes for any players.
The mid 2000's Suns would average more points than any team in the NBA playing, Golden State and Sacramento included. Now, they couldn't defend like GSW, hence the lack of true success.
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