WTF....Pack +6.5???

the books made it 7 for a reason. who have the packers beat this year? seems like they've played a soft schedule.

GB wins: PHI, @ NYG, SD, @ MIN, WAS, @ DEN, @ KC, MIN, CAR, @ DET

Dal wins: NYG, @ MIA, @ CHI, STL, BUF, MIN, @ PHI, @NYG, WAS, NYJ

Combined record of teams GB has beat: 52-58
Combined record of teams Dal has beat: 43-67


Teams Dallas beat that GB hasn't played: MIA, STL, BUF, NYJ
Teams GB beat Dallas hasn't played: SD, DEN, KC, DET
 
I dont know how you are calling Al Harris overrated. Thats just stupidity. He has shut down every single WR this year that has gone against him. Roy Williams was almost shut out last weekend. Had 3 for 32. Roy Williams called him the best corner in football. Chad Johnson has called him a top 3 corner. Nobody has gained 100 yards agains him. Terence Newman doesnt even compare to Al Harris
 
Using the YPG doesn't tell the story of pass defense. I read this years ago about a better formula (TY - (Int x 50) / pass att).

Dal 2387 y -800 y / 405 att = 3.92 Per Pass Att Adj.
GB 2368 y -600 y / 379 att = 4.66 Per Pass Att Adj.

That is a considerable difference. Compare to top units eg:

Pitt 3.70
Ind 3.00
Mia 5.59
NE 3.76
Atl 4.83

Don't you find these numbers more realistic of actual performance?

Offensively even with the Tony Romo vs Buf numbers are

GB 6.75
Dal 6.46

With that being said I like Gb plus points but I have been killed going against Cowboys this year.
 
Thats a interesting way of breaking it down Mr Goode, it seems to be a better indicator of overall performance. Curious to see where you read that.
 
I agree, YPG don't mean shit.. that's why I like to look at the DVOA's (Defense Value Over Average) from the guys at football outsiders.. they take every play into consideration and they take who they have played into consideration...

through 12 weeks...

Dallas is ranked 6th overall defensively..

Green Bay is ranked 12 overall defensively...


Dallas is ranked 7th at stopping the pass..

Green Bay is ranked 13 at stopping the pass..


Dallas is ranked 5th at stopping the run...

Green Bay is ranked 7th at stopping the run...


so Dallas does have the advantage according to their numbers...

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php



Dallas also has the advantage on offense.. this shows both offense and defensive ranks overall for both teams...

in the middle of the page...

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/11/27/ramblings/dvoa-ratings/5809/


but I still like Favre getting a td.
 
I believe it was in a book by Bill James of Baseball abstract fame but it might have been in a book by Dr, Z. I can't remember!
 
I read that many years ago, at least 20 I think. The other thing that I read was the first time I ever read anything about Yards per Point. I wish I could find that book. Gamblers book Club maybe!
 
I also think that this is too many points to be giving to the packers, take this from a cowboys fan who follows this team very closely. Take the points here.
 
Here is a good writeup from a Cowboy blog, he really thinks the game comes down to how healthy Anthony Henry actually is. By Rafael Vela from theboysblog.com.

10-1 vs. 10-1. Think the NFL Network is happy?

When the Packers Have the Ball


Brett Favre
took a sip from the fountain of youth this offseason. Or maybe having more talent around him has calmed him and curbed the bad decision machine we’ve seen in recent years.

The Packers have undergone a conversion in the past few years. Under Mike Sherman they had one of the best, most experienced offensive lines in the game and used Ahman Green to wear opponents out. The line was ripped up by age and free agency — guards Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera both left after ‘04.

The offensive overhaul began last year when the Packers force fed young guards Jason Spitz and Darren Colledge into the lineup, with veteran tackles Kyle Clifton and Mark Tauscher. The kids integrated themselves quickly and shored up the Packers protection.

Green Bay also rebuilt the receiving corps on the fly, teaming youngsters Greg Jennings and James Jones with veteran standout Donald Driver. Driver has thrived with quality help, posting over 800 yards so far. The Packers struggled badly early in the year but have jump-started their running game the past month, with Ryan Grant posting a 4.7 yard average, with teams so concerned with the Packers passing attack.

Green Bay alternates spread formations with four and five receiver sets with two tight end sets; they have a diamond-like formation, with the fullback and tight end each lining up behind each tackle with Grant as the lone back. The Packers have balance and try to break cutback runs off this package, as Grant has the quickness to break runs outside to the backside should an opponent over-pursue.

Dallas will likely play pass first, using a lot of the 3-3-5 package they unveiled against the Jets. They’ll have to tackle well, as the Packers like to run lots of flanker screens and smoke routes.

We’ll also see if the Cowboys will pounce on the Packers inside routes; Green Bay runs slants more than any other team in the game. Teams have been wary of overplaying these routes as the Packers’ WRs have the speed to get upfield if a corner is cheating inside. Look for Terence Newman to lock on to Driver, in an attempt to take Favre’s favorite option away.

When Dallas Has the Ball


The Cowboys offense has been the most potent this side of New England, but they’re facing a quality defense this week. The Packers have been a top ten scoring defense all year and rank 6th right now.

That’s a huge step up from a unit that ranked 20th in ‘05 and 25th in ‘06 in scoring. Green Bay’s turnaround there began with two key veteran signings. Green Bay paired CB Charles Woodson with Al Harris and got immediate quality corner play. The Packers also stole DT Ryan Pickett from the Rams. Pickett anchors the Pack’s run defense. The Packers also made a key philosophical adjustment, taking DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila off the field on run downs in favor of the much bigger Cullen Jenkins. KGB is a feared rusher, but teams were running him over with running plays.

Green Bay also made the most of their top ten pick, adding A.J. Hawk to a linebacking corps that already sports MLB Nick Barnett. The Packers have improved significantly at every level the past couple of years and now are a top level defense.

Dallas is also a pass first team and the key matchup will be keeping 11 sack LE Aaron Kampman under control. The Packers don’t blitz much and Tony Romo will have time to get the ball downfield if his protection holds.
Green Bay plays a lot of man coverage and that will have Terrell Owens and Jason Witten smiling. Dallas loves to send their tight end up the field and will try to do so again tomorrow. The Packers are strong overall but give up a lot of yards on throwing plays.

I would not be surprised if the Cowboys give Green Bay some of their medicine, spreading the field early to throw and then hammering with the Jones/Barber duo later.

Overall
:

Fasten your chinstraps. This should be a wild, open game. And I’m not at all certain Dallas will win it. The game will come down to matchups and in my opinion everything rides on Anthony Henry’s ankle. The Packers are the team most able to attack Dallas the same way that New England did.

The Cowboys missed Henry badly in that game, as the Pats abused Nate Jones over and over. Henry has played lately but does not looked fully healthy.

I’m going to offer a qualified return. A sound Henry will see a four point Dallas win. If he’s gimpy, I’m giving it to the Pack by a point.
 
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Roy is a football player, he makes plays. His strength is not coverage, but he hasnt given up a lot of big plays this season, he keeps most everything infront of him. All teams go after safties, why does Roy get the bad rap? He is a sure tackler, who is good in run support. No one mentions they are 4th against the run. Part of that is due to Roy. If he is so terrible then why does he get picked to go to the probowl every year? I'm sure a lot of other teams would want him on their team.

T New plays the slot in the nickel, and Reeves has been starting left corner all season because Newman was hurt early then Henry got hurt later. Cowboys have the 2nd most interceptions in the NFL.....yeah their seconday play is real shit....do you even watch the games?

Sorry, Cowboy fan here, but Roy Willy does not make plays. Roy Willy USED to make plays. He is not a sure tackler. He USED to be a sure tackler. He is not good in run support. He IS a liability in the pass coverage, and when you are a safety, that is not a good thing. Don't even bring the Pro Bowl thing up. Come on. You know what a bunch of bullshit that is....

Roy Willy has continued to decline since his second year. Washington exposed him in the second game of the year two years ago, and he's been too lazy and full of himself to work on improving his technique in pass coverage, and too lazy and full of himself to get back to working on tackling fundamentals.

Roy Willy would rather throw his teammates and/or coaches under the bus than take responsibility for his shortcomings. I have no time for this guy anymore and would just as soon trade his ass along with the higher of the two #1's to move up to get another corner, receiver, or Run DMc.
 
I dont know how you are calling Al Harris overrated. Thats just stupidity. He has shut down every single WR this year that has gone against him. Roy Williams was almost shut out last weekend. Had 3 for 32. Roy Williams called him the best corner in football. Chad Johnson has called him a top 3 corner. Nobody has gained 100 yards agains him. Terence Newman doesnt even compare to Al Harris

Come on signal. That's just a dumb statement there...
 
Roy Williams is fine, name a SS in this league not named Poamolu that doesnt get picked on!

He does his job and just because the TV announcers arent calling his name all the time doesnt mean he is not making plays. He is second on the team in tackles. I havent seen him throw anyone under the bus.
 
Funny EDizzle that you are back on Roy Williams………just read in USA Today in their little blips on each team, that:“Roy Williams has been taken out of certain defensive packages where the other teams have 3 or more WR on the field (AKA Packers every play)”. Roy said he is cool w/ this…..blah blah.”Further proves the original point that he blows in pass coverage. Bad enough they are replacing him in passing situations to play 3 CB instead. Check out a USA today, funny stuff.But yes, he is still a good tackler.
 
Yeah but what that site fails to mention is that he rotates with Hamlin as the safety. I like the packages they have been creating, it plays to Roy's strengths. What it fails to mention is that they move him to nickel linebacker.

Once again, please tell me a SS that does not get picked on in coverage not named Polamolu (even he blows coverages) Please i am still waiting.
 
You guys are jackasses, I cant wait till Farve throws a slant to one of his recievers and leads him right into 31.....lights out, go to sleep fudgepacker.
 
Phillips....63 tackles 3 picks 1 sack
Wilson....44 tackles 2 picks
Knight....67 tackles 4 picks
Williams...66 tackles 2 ints

Not too much difference between them, Philips is having his best season as a pro. Wilson is a freak but i've seen a few games where he has blown coverages. Knight has been solid his whole career, good job you got me on one.
 
meanwhile.... I CAN'T FUCKING WAIT FOR THIS GAME TONIGHT!!

too bad Bryant Gumbel will ruin it if i don't keep it on mute
 
Oh geez, I didnt even remember that "Glorious" Gumbel and longface Collingsworth were calling this game. I might just go to the bar so I dont have to listen to their goofy asses.
 
Roy Williams is fine, name a SS in this league not named Poamolu that doesnt get picked on!

He does his job and just because the TV announcers arent calling his name all the time doesnt mean he is not making plays. He is second on the team in tackles. I havent seen him throw anyone under the bus.

When he gets his ass burned, IT IS NEVER HIS FAULT. He's FOREVER laying blame somewhere else and telling the media they don't know what happens on the field...:blahblah:

After washington torched him two years ago, he made some comment about the blown coverages not being his fault. No lie. It's documented somewhere. I was at the game and read it in the DMSnooze the next day and couldnt' believe my eyes.

He damn near got into fisticuffs with Pat Watkins in the lockerroom after the Philly game last year b/c Roy was berating him on the field for a blown coverage when it ended up that Roy was actually the one out of position...again...

Then, after Cooley turned him around and made him look like a complete jackass on the first td, he immediately (almost instinctively) turned around and started pointing and yelling at K. Burnett. It was Roy's fault, and to his credit, he finally admitted it after the game.

There is no arguement to be made that he isn't a liability in coverage. None. He doesn't signficantly bring that much more to the table to justify us keeping him on the field for what they're paying him.

To whom much is given, much is expected...
 
Ill just end this right now by saying Roy Williams is the most overrated DB in this league. Brett Favre is going to expose both him and Newman tonight
 
Ill just end this right now by saying Roy Williams is the most overrated DB in this league. Brett Favre is going to expose both him and Newman tonight

:smiley_acbe:

If anything Farve will expose a gimpy Anthony Henry, Reeves or nate Jones. I wouldnt be throwing Newmans way too many times.
 
newman is underrated imo. i think the pack has some favorable match-ups with their receiving core tonight. james jones especially. +7 looks almost too ez.
 
Line up in 4 and 5 wide and get knocked the fuck out of the game. Man they were really able to expose Roy Williams. I think i'm going to be voting for him and Atari Bigby for the probowl.
 
Good for Rodgers, Dallas backed off after they knocked Farve out of the game. They were going to give up that underneath stuff all game. I didnt see them get beat deep.
 
Ok maybe someone can clear this up for me...

Towards the end of the game DAL got a "pass Interference call" and from what it looked like originally the 1st ref there was nothing and then it got "overuled"

WTF is that all about.... If there's something that this sport has to improve on is about calls like those. This was looking to end even better than it did and then by some odd ass reason it got "overuled"

What a joke!
 
i was ina crowded loud, so im not sure. but it seemed like it took a LONG time for that flag to come out on the PI play i was talking about above.
 
I agree it was a shady call because it came in so late.

Dallas still had a lot of penalties also, its not like the packers were getting all the penalties.
 
And why wasn't this a penalty?

fe594177-d956-468f-9444-7b9886aa046e.jpg
 
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