WTF....Pack +6.5???
- Thread starter aplous
- Start date
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
IMO Al Harris is a top 5 CB in the league and has all the tools to shut TO out. The problems for GB's defense is Woodson is hurt, if he can play the the packers have 2 of the best corners in the game. But their safties can be attacked.
I was thinking 3.5 or 4 point line, I dont like the 6.5 and it will prolly go up this week. Dallas defense has been playing solid ball, but Farve can find those 1 on 1 match ups and take advantage of them. This game is a game of 2 Brett Farve (young and old) Both of them are going to take shots into coverage. Maybe Dallas gets few picks?
I was thinking 3.5 or 4 point line, I dont like the 6.5 and it will prolly go up this week. Dallas defense has been playing solid ball, but Farve can find those 1 on 1 match ups and take advantage of them. This game is a game of 2 Brett Farve (young and old) Both of them are going to take shots into coverage. Maybe Dallas gets few picks?
aplous
Donkey Hater
7 at bookmaker.
I know Dallas is solid, but their secondary play is shit. The most I see of Roy Williams is the 31 on his back when he is chasing guys down the seam that have beat him deep.
Dont understand it b/c TNew is dope and Roy is good as well. I think their nickel corner sucks.....whats his name? Rivera?
I know Dallas is solid, but their secondary play is shit. The most I see of Roy Williams is the 31 on his back when he is chasing guys down the seam that have beat him deep.
Dont understand it b/c TNew is dope and Roy is good as well. I think their nickel corner sucks.....whats his name? Rivera?
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footballjunkie
Makes it Rain
Guess you've been looking at the wrong guy than since Roy Williams number is 31
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Roy is a football player, he makes plays. His strength is not coverage, but he hasnt given up a lot of big plays this season, he keeps most everything infront of him. All teams go after safties, why does Roy get the bad rap? He is a sure tackler, who is good in run support. No one mentions they are 4th against the run. Part of that is due to Roy. If he is so terrible then why does he get picked to go to the probowl every year? I'm sure a lot of other teams would want him on their team.
T New plays the slot in the nickel, and Reeves has been starting left corner all season because Newman was hurt early then Henry got hurt later. Cowboys have the 2nd most interceptions in the NFL.....yeah their seconday play is real shit....do you even watch the games?
tee*dub
Head of Loggerhead Turtle Society
Actually agree with this quite a bit.. Even the great Bob Sanders gets picked on in pass coverage from time to time.. That is most offenses goal- expose safties in pass coverage.. Good point.. Having said that I think the Cowboys secondary is in for a long day..
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
It's very true, with the size and speed of some of these WR's and TE's why not go after the safeties? ALL safties get burnt, so why is it magnified when Roy gets beat? The guys makes plenty of positive plays that go unmentioned, and the coaches and other players know that.
aplous
Donkey Hater
Why must folks try and get so upset? You stated my point for me in your 2nd sentence. "Coverage isn't his strength". I never said he is a bad safety or a bad human.....I even said he was good.
Just seems to stick out when Dallas plays close games it is b/c the other team is hitting big plays.
NE smoked them deep constantly (like they have to everyone)
J Campbell tossed up 350 on them
Eli tossed up 300+ on them
They are a good team and could def. cover Thursday, but they are ranked 21st in the NFL against the pass and GB has a great passing game.
Is he your cousin or something?
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
My point was you said their secondary is shit, and I am arguing that. I might be the only one who will defend Roy Williams, but I dont care. He is a good player for this team and it goes unnoticed. But ESPN will sure let you know about it if he screwed up a coverage.
So what if NE passed all over them? I can guarentee you it wouldnt have been as bad if Henry was back in, their #2 corner.
And yeah Jason Campell put up almost 350 yards, but didnt he also have 2 interceptions? One of them being a crucial turnover that might have decided the game. Its not like Campell was beating them deep. He only averaged 6.4 yards per attempt, which is nothing astronomical. Who won that game by the way?
And Eli putting up 300, so what? There are plenty of QB's out there who can put up 300 on anyone. Oh and by the way, who won both of those games?
Ask yourself, why is Dallas pass defense rated 21st? Its either
A. They cant run on them and rely on the pas; or
B. They get way behind on them and are forced to pass
Or it could be a little bit of both.
So what if NE passed all over them? I can guarentee you it wouldnt have been as bad if Henry was back in, their #2 corner.
And yeah Jason Campell put up almost 350 yards, but didnt he also have 2 interceptions? One of them being a crucial turnover that might have decided the game. Its not like Campell was beating them deep. He only averaged 6.4 yards per attempt, which is nothing astronomical. Who won that game by the way?
And Eli putting up 300, so what? There are plenty of QB's out there who can put up 300 on anyone. Oh and by the way, who won both of those games?
Ask yourself, why is Dallas pass defense rated 21st? Its either
A. They cant run on them and rely on the pas; or
B. They get way behind on them and are forced to pass
Or it could be a little bit of both.
aplous
Donkey Hater
Guys the point of the thread is that Dallas can be passed on. I know their run D is good and so does everyone else. That is why I feel this is a good matchup for GB. We all know they arent going to run it. At one point on Turkey Day GB had 31 passes to 4 runs. They will pass on Dallas.
rayer
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
Initially I wanted to take the packers + the points. But now i'm not so sure, the packers are just so 1 dimensional on offense and dallas is getting healthy in their secondary and have been able to bring good pressure with their front 7.
Now GB's defense is no slouch either. They are top 3 in the NFC no doubt in my mind. They do have a couple key injuries on that side of the ball that we should monitor this week.
<table border="0" width="750"><tbody><tr><td class="p_tddetails" nowrap="nowrap" width="150">
Charles Woodson</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
DB</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
Probable</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
Oct 26</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">foot</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td><td colspan="5" class="p_tddetails" width="600">Latest News:
Packers CB Charles Woodson (foot) did not practice on Monday. DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (ankle/knee) and DT Johnny Jolly (shoulder) were also not at practice. FS Nick Collins (knee) returned and could start on Thursday against Dallas. His backup, Aaron Rouse (knee), did not work out.
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Now GB's defense is no slouch either. They are top 3 in the NFC no doubt in my mind. They do have a couple key injuries on that side of the ball that we should monitor this week.
<table border="0" width="750"><tbody><tr><td class="p_tddetails" nowrap="nowrap" width="150">
Charles Woodson</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
DB</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
Probable</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
Oct 26</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">foot</td><td class="p_tddetails" width="110">
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td><td colspan="5" class="p_tddetails" width="600">Latest News:
Packers CB Charles Woodson (foot) did not practice on Monday. DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (ankle/knee) and DT Johnny Jolly (shoulder) were also not at practice. FS Nick Collins (knee) returned and could start on Thursday against Dallas. His backup, Aaron Rouse (knee), did not work out.
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S
signalcaller
Guest
They really arent 1 dimensional any more Dizzle. Grant has proven he can be a hell of a runner when he gets the carries. Of course hes not as good as Barber/Jones but he can still run the ball in this league. Ever since that Denver MNF game the Packers have been a legitimate threat to run the ball as well.
This Woodson injury is going to hurt. Bush has defintly improved over the course of the year but now we have to have Frank Walker as the nickel back. I think the biggest matchup problem is Witten. Atari Bigby is a piss poor pass defender, great run stuffer but passing game is his weakness. I think Hawk will be the best matchup we have for him. Hes very athletic and might be able to somewhat limit what Witten does. I think TO is going to actually have a big game. I believe Harris is a top 3 CB in the NFL but his game is all about physical play at the line. Hes not going to be able to do that agains Owens. Owens is stronger, and could also run right by Harris. I still like the Pack chances however soley based on Favre going to tear apart this Dallas secondary. When the packers go 5 WR nobody can defend them all. All 5 of them could be a #3 or better on any other team in the NFL.
This Woodson injury is going to hurt. Bush has defintly improved over the course of the year but now we have to have Frank Walker as the nickel back. I think the biggest matchup problem is Witten. Atari Bigby is a piss poor pass defender, great run stuffer but passing game is his weakness. I think Hawk will be the best matchup we have for him. Hes very athletic and might be able to somewhat limit what Witten does. I think TO is going to actually have a big game. I believe Harris is a top 3 CB in the NFL but his game is all about physical play at the line. Hes not going to be able to do that agains Owens. Owens is stronger, and could also run right by Harris. I still like the Pack chances however soley based on Favre going to tear apart this Dallas secondary. When the packers go 5 WR nobody can defend them all. All 5 of them could be a #3 or better on any other team in the NFL.
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
Devner has been terrible against the run this season, most everyone has ran on them.
There is a reason Ryan Grant couldnt make an NFL team until this year because the packers are so thin at RB. The only reason they have recently found success against the run is because they spread it out, which is what I expect them to do against Dallas. Bring out 5 wide and Dallas will drop 7 or 8 into coverage making Farve make those tight throws.
I still think they are 1 dimensional on offense, they pass way to much. There is no balance at all. The more you throw the rock the more can go wrong.....sacks, farve gets hurt, fumbles, tipped passes, interceptions.
Remember not so long ago Farve was an interception machine.
There is a reason Ryan Grant couldnt make an NFL team until this year because the packers are so thin at RB. The only reason they have recently found success against the run is because they spread it out, which is what I expect them to do against Dallas. Bring out 5 wide and Dallas will drop 7 or 8 into coverage making Farve make those tight throws.
I still think they are 1 dimensional on offense, they pass way to much. There is no balance at all. The more you throw the rock the more can go wrong.....sacks, farve gets hurt, fumbles, tipped passes, interceptions.
Remember not so long ago Farve was an interception machine.
S
signalcaller
Guest
Bradie James on Grant
He's good, man," James said Sunday. "I just didn't know. I had no idea how well he was running the ball. When I watched film today, I was like, 'Wow, this guy is actually a good running back.' He's one of the better running backs that we face."
I dont think you have watched many Packers games this year. You really have no clue about this team. That last post was one of the dumber things I have read on this forum in a while.
"Remember not so long ago Favre was an interception machine"
Probally had the least talented team around him that he ever had in his career. He had 607 attempts that year. By far the most out of any QB in the league. The team was behind so often he was forced into throwing 30-40 times a game and trying to win the game by himself since the defense wasnt that good either. Thats one INT every 20.9 passes. There are plenty of QB's who are just below that.
Its no coincidence that now once Favre actually has talent around him hes not throwing INT.
He's good, man," James said Sunday. "I just didn't know. I had no idea how well he was running the ball. When I watched film today, I was like, 'Wow, this guy is actually a good running back.' He's one of the better running backs that we face."
I dont think you have watched many Packers games this year. You really have no clue about this team. That last post was one of the dumber things I have read on this forum in a while.
"Remember not so long ago Favre was an interception machine"
Probally had the least talented team around him that he ever had in his career. He had 607 attempts that year. By far the most out of any QB in the league. The team was behind so often he was forced into throwing 30-40 times a game and trying to win the game by himself since the defense wasnt that good either. Thats one INT every 20.9 passes. There are plenty of QB's who are just below that.
Its no coincidence that now once Favre actually has talent around him hes not throwing INT.
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
Which part was dumb, the Ryan Grant thing or Farve throwing a lot of picks in years past? I wouldnt really call either that dumb. But I guess thats the way you see it.
I've watched a lot of packer games this season, i know whats going on. The real reason they are winning games is because of their defense, not so much Farve. Dont get me wrong, Farve is a great QB but that defense is playing good football.
He is still throwing 30-40 times a game, and when you throw the ball that much that gives more chance for mistakes to happen. Those few years when he did have a lot of picks, I saw tons of tipped balls by his receivers get picked. I was just saying that could happen thursday if he wants to throw in into tight holes, like he will do.
I've watched a lot of packer games this season, i know whats going on. The real reason they are winning games is because of their defense, not so much Farve. Dont get me wrong, Farve is a great QB but that defense is playing good football.
He is still throwing 30-40 times a game, and when you throw the ball that much that gives more chance for mistakes to happen. Those few years when he did have a lot of picks, I saw tons of tipped balls by his receivers get picked. I was just saying that could happen thursday if he wants to throw in into tight holes, like he will do.
S
signalcaller
Guest
The dumb thing IMO was
There is a reason Ryan Grant couldnt make an NFL team until this year because the packers are so thin at RB. The only reason they have recently found success against the run is because they spread it out.
There have been other undrafted guys to come into this league and do some major things at the RB position. There have also been many times this year where the Packers line up in the I, or even the wishbone formation and pound the ball continuosly for 4-6 yards. Against Minnesota who had the best run defense in the league at the time Grant tore them a new one, running right at them, then running sweeps. He looked like the best RB in that game (yes AD played). I think Dallas might find out the hard way this week that Grant is a real player in this league
There is a reason Ryan Grant couldnt make an NFL team until this year because the packers are so thin at RB. The only reason they have recently found success against the run is because they spread it out.
There have been other undrafted guys to come into this league and do some major things at the RB position. There have also been many times this year where the Packers line up in the I, or even the wishbone formation and pound the ball continuosly for 4-6 yards. Against Minnesota who had the best run defense in the league at the time Grant tore them a new one, running right at them, then running sweeps. He looked like the best RB in that game (yes AD played). I think Dallas might find out the hard way this week that Grant is a real player in this league
Throwback420
Diehard L.A. fan
GB ML ?
S
signalcaller
Guest
I wouldnt be surprised Throw. Favre could have a field day against this secondary and I dont think Romo and co. have faced a defense this good so far this year.
Throwback420
Diehard L.A. fan
Great Value IMO
Tide High
p90sex
Harris is a great corner if he can get on the line of scrimmage with the guy. He will be up against TO all day, but TO will be moving all over the field. They will have him in motion so much that Harris bump coverage won't be as successful as we're used to seeing. I know he's good, but he won't be holding TO down this week.
Croc69wheat
Bubble Boy
think its up to 7 now
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
is woodson gonna play?
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
Injury report
Here it is from both sides:
COWBOYS
FULL PARTICIPATION: WR Patrick Crayton (ankle), CB Anthony Henry (ankle)
OUT: WR Terry Glenn (knee)
PACKERS
FULL PARTICIPATION: CB Will Blackmon (foot), S Nick Collins (knee), RB Ryan Grant (ankle)
LIMITED PARTICIPATION: DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (ankle), WR Ruvell Martin (ankle), S Aaron Rouse (knee), T Mark Tauscher (ankle), LB Tracy White (ankle), CB Charles Woodson (toe)
DID NOT PARTICIPATE: TE Bubba Franks (knee)
OUT: DT Johnny Jolly (shoulder)
Here it is from both sides:
COWBOYS
FULL PARTICIPATION: WR Patrick Crayton (ankle), CB Anthony Henry (ankle)
OUT: WR Terry Glenn (knee)
PACKERS
FULL PARTICIPATION: CB Will Blackmon (foot), S Nick Collins (knee), RB Ryan Grant (ankle)
LIMITED PARTICIPATION: DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (ankle), WR Ruvell Martin (ankle), S Aaron Rouse (knee), T Mark Tauscher (ankle), LB Tracy White (ankle), CB Charles Woodson (toe)
DID NOT PARTICIPATE: TE Bubba Franks (knee)
OUT: DT Johnny Jolly (shoulder)
S
signalcaller
Guest
Woodson said hes feeling good in todays Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Im thinking he plays although not at 100 percent
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
Favre also used to be garbage at the Metrodome too...trends like that go in stretches and rarely mean much IMO..
This is a great thread fellas.
BlitzBandit
Friend of CTG
on your A and B theory, New England doesn't (A.) allow people to run on them (they are ranked 5th against the run) and they (B.) make other teams get way behind on them forcing them to pass.. yet they still have the 6th ranked pass defense... so it can be done if your defense is up to it... but I guess that's why NE is NE and Dallas is Dallas... afterall, we all remember who won that game too...
this should be a tough game no doubt, but I think I would lean to Favre getting that many points.... but that's just me.
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
NE pass D ranking may have alot to do w/ the division they play in too...six games vs Buff, Mia, and NYJ tend to make those numbers look a little better than they are...Philly sure made the square end look like Madden 08 on Sunday night vs that NE secondary...
That said, I do get u're point...but I think Dallas may have faced some better pass O's than NE overall...
That said, I do get u're point...but I think Dallas may have faced some better pass O's than NE overall...
BlitzBandit
Friend of CTG
the thing is, every team is played against differently... NE could have been overconfident against Philly... afterall, they were favored by 24 in that one... but they sure made Washingtons' defense, among others, look like shit...
and Minnesotas' (supposedly worst pass defense in the league) did a helluva lot better against Eli Manning and Co. than Dallas' defense could in either game against em'.....
I don't think saying they have it easy playing NYJ or Buffalo twice should count for as much as it does for the other teams in that division...
NE has every single team gunning for them (since they are still undefeated). So a Philly or NY Jets team will play much harder and tougher against them than against anyone else. They are just waiting for that week to play the Pats. So no matter how easy the team looks, they won't be because they are bringing everything to the table that they have saved for that one week to knock down the undefeated team. The strength of schedule matters a bit less when everyone is gunning for you. You have to be ready week in and week out for all the new strategies teams will bring to try and beat you with.
BlitzBandit
Friend of CTG
NE has played the entire NFC EAST (with the Giants pending) as well.. and Dallas has played NEs' division... they have faced much of the same teams
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
that's too subjective for my taste Blitz...I get what u're saying, but that's grasping for straws IMO..
whether or not Buffalo is "gunning" for them or not, fact remains the pass O of Buffalo has one play and it's to throw it to Lee Evans...a shutdown corner like Samuel eliminates that and Buffalo doesn't have a chance in hell in moving the ball otherwise...that's just a fact...
Losman throws deep to Evans..that's the pass O...
I do see what u're saying, but subjective arguments can be made across the board..
Dallas is 10-1...do teams not gun for them?
NYJ faced a 9-1 team on National TV on a national holiday...yet they looked like LA Tech....were they not gunning for Dallas that day?
whether or not Buffalo is "gunning" for them or not, fact remains the pass O of Buffalo has one play and it's to throw it to Lee Evans...a shutdown corner like Samuel eliminates that and Buffalo doesn't have a chance in hell in moving the ball otherwise...that's just a fact...
Losman throws deep to Evans..that's the pass O...
I do see what u're saying, but subjective arguments can be made across the board..
Dallas is 10-1...do teams not gun for them?
NYJ faced a 9-1 team on National TV on a national holiday...yet they looked like LA Tech....were they not gunning for Dallas that day?
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
Fair enough....go back to Dizzle's point would be my rebutal for that...
Samual is maybe the best corner in football...therefore the pass D will be better IMO...he's a better a player than anyone on Dallas secondary..
that said, Newman is a good corner and they've been much better since he's gotten healthy.
The wash game was an anomoly...they were behind and Campbell threw more than 50 passes...if u can't get on that 300, Jeff George is always a phone call away.
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
Beyond the pass D argument...I think a TD w/ GB here may be the best value I've seen in a good while..
Anybody have an argument for laying the 7 w/ Dallas here?
Anybody have an argument for laying the 7 w/ Dallas here?
BlitzBandit
Friend of CTG
yea, I guess I went off subject from the GB game,
but I'm not trying to reach for straws... I don't need to reach for straws to defend NE.. they are in a level above everyone else and until someone beats them, it stays that way.. no straws needed...
as for Dallas' defense, I think saying Newman being back and making the difference is reaching for straws... that pass defense is still vulnerable.. that's why it is ranked a bit low.. not because of what they allowed when Newman wasn't there...
but enough of that.. I'm on your side with GB.
but I'm not trying to reach for straws... I don't need to reach for straws to defend NE.. they are in a level above everyone else and until someone beats them, it stays that way.. no straws needed...
as for Dallas' defense, I think saying Newman being back and making the difference is reaching for straws... that pass defense is still vulnerable.. that's why it is ranked a bit low.. not because of what they allowed when Newman wasn't there...
but enough of that.. I'm on your side with GB.
EDizzle
The Danny Snyder Fanclub
Well if we are scrutinizing Dallas pass defense lets take a look at both teams numbers.
Dallas is rated 21st in terms of passing YPG giving up 217 on 2387 attempts
Gb is rated 18th (215.3) only giving up less than 2 yards per game also on 19 less attempts.
There really isnt much a difference between both of these teams in terms of pass defense is there? Are we arguing over 1.7 yards per game?
When Newman was out for the Giants game Elisha Nelson Manning we great for over 300 yards and 4 TD's, then look at the second game against the giants when Newman played....only 236 yards and only 1 TD and 2 picks. I would definitely say Newman is making a difference. He is the best cover guy on the team and he is just now getting to 100%.
He also had a crucial interception against Washington in the redzone that preserved a victory. He also had another pick in the redzone in the buffalo game. Thats crazy to say he is not making a difference.
Dallas is rated 21st in terms of passing YPG giving up 217 on 2387 attempts
Gb is rated 18th (215.3) only giving up less than 2 yards per game also on 19 less attempts.
There really isnt much a difference between both of these teams in terms of pass defense is there? Are we arguing over 1.7 yards per game?
When Newman was out for the Giants game Elisha Nelson Manning we great for over 300 yards and 4 TD's, then look at the second game against the giants when Newman played....only 236 yards and only 1 TD and 2 picks. I would definitely say Newman is making a difference. He is the best cover guy on the team and he is just now getting to 100%.
He also had a crucial interception against Washington in the redzone that preserved a victory. He also had another pick in the redzone in the buffalo game. Thats crazy to say he is not making a difference.
luvthemcowboys
Pretty much a regular
not so fast my friend.
al harries = overated
cant wait til them boys get in there ass
also r i p taylor dont know why all the shit about dade county my prays to his famliy and as a cowboy fan I really going to miss him play. One of the best to watch
rayerluvthemcowboys
Pretty much a regular
Line is funny as hell wanted boys -3 for biggest play of season but now Ill just watch.
Also key of the game if g.b wants to beat dallas just throw on 35 Jones he is awful. I think g b has to go 5 wr spread and pray there o line holds up it should be a close game imop
Also key of the game if g.b wants to beat dallas just throw on 35 Jones he is awful. I think g b has to go 5 wr spread and pray there o line holds up it should be a close game imop
spanishshark
Youngest guy on the forum
I'll place my money on Brett Favre who is a proven QB, not just a one seasoner having 1 good year such as Tony Romo. Brett finds ways even if he does throw a couple pics here and there. Tonight will be no different on what seems to be 2 teams closely matched. 7 points is way too much to give to the Pac. Although I probably agree that dallas pulls it off I think it will be a close one. Take the points.
spanishshark
Youngest guy on the forum
Yeah, just like the books made the Steelers favored by 16 against a winless Miami. :4_12_13:
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