World Cup 3rd/4th Place & Final Discussion
- Thread starter BetCrimes1984
- Start date
MusicCityGambler
Chill Winstonnn!
Holland to win the third place game seems like a damn good bet. Maybe Brazil comes out and tries to atone for the massacre but I don't see how they could possibly be in the right mind to do so.
SteveMoneydog
Pretty much a regular
fwiw....
every tv-expert is telling us that havin one more day to prep is an advantage but the truth is that 6 of the last 7 wc finals (since the semis are on two different days) were won by the team with less rest. the only exception were italy in 2006.
every tv-expert is telling us that havin one more day to prep is an advantage but the truth is that 6 of the last 7 wc finals (since the semis are on two different days) were won by the team with less rest. the only exception were italy in 2006.
dylanphan
Pretty much a regular
Extra day rest always a bit of an advantage, especially in a month long tournament in warmer climate. But, it's not a huge advantage, you take everything you can get.
Most times in these games neither side motivated - both disappointed having lost so close to the prize. Some countries opt to rest more veteran players who may be knicked up a bit as opposed to running them out there and risking injury right before league plays about to begin. Thus the reason scoring is usually higher, as more mistakes are made, less care given.
To me, motivation is a big factor. And I think Brazil will be more motivated. First off, they are on their home soil. Secondly they were just embarrassed. These players take huge pride in their sport and country, do you really think American basketball or baseball players would be outright bawling on national television if they lost the semifinals at the olympics or something? I don't. I think Brazil will be motivated. Dutch, well, not nearly as much. RvP menstruating, DeJOng obviously laboring. Robben has put in many miles in running, not sure how motivated he'll be even.
For me, it's Brazil or nothing. I do think o2.5 may be decent but odds juiced too high for my liking.
Will definitely wait for lineups though, as you seemingly always get surprises in third place matches.
Most times in these games neither side motivated - both disappointed having lost so close to the prize. Some countries opt to rest more veteran players who may be knicked up a bit as opposed to running them out there and risking injury right before league plays about to begin. Thus the reason scoring is usually higher, as more mistakes are made, less care given.
To me, motivation is a big factor. And I think Brazil will be more motivated. First off, they are on their home soil. Secondly they were just embarrassed. These players take huge pride in their sport and country, do you really think American basketball or baseball players would be outright bawling on national television if they lost the semifinals at the olympics or something? I don't. I think Brazil will be motivated. Dutch, well, not nearly as much. RvP menstruating, DeJOng obviously laboring. Robben has put in many miles in running, not sure how motivated he'll be even.
For me, it's Brazil or nothing. I do think o2.5 may be decent but odds juiced too high for my liking.
Will definitely wait for lineups though, as you seemingly always get surprises in third place matches.
dylanphan
Pretty much a regular
More 'dis'-motivation for Dutchies:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/louis-...lay-world-cup-third-place-game-000718235.html
SAO PAULO – Furious Netherlands head coach Louis Van Gaal blasted FIFA for its refusal to scrap the World Cup's third-place consolation game and insisted the controversial playoff should be consigned to history.
Van Gaal's Dutch side will be forced to play host nation Brazil in Brasilia on Saturday after losing its semifinal to Argentina in a heart-stopping penalty shootout at Arena de Sao Paulo on Wednesday night.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/louis-...lay-world-cup-third-place-game-000718235.html
SAO PAULO – Furious Netherlands head coach Louis Van Gaal blasted FIFA for its refusal to scrap the World Cup's third-place consolation game and insisted the controversial playoff should be consigned to history.
Van Gaal's Dutch side will be forced to play host nation Brazil in Brasilia on Saturday after losing its semifinal to Argentina in a heart-stopping penalty shootout at Arena de Sao Paulo on Wednesday night.
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
Teams after a penalty shootout are now 1-9 in their next match
ArizonaKid
Pretty much a regular
Very interesting.
Whats the win % of favorites since the knockout rounds began ?? Seems it's been a heavy chalk tourney since group play ended.
And I agree about the 3rd place game being scrapped, it's so meaningless...3rd place 4th place what does it matter.
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
In terms of "to advance" 13 out of the 14 games the fav's advanced, only Germany at a slight underdog to Brasil won.
In terms of handicaps only 6 games did the favourite cover their spread.
Gorgolon Lives
The Reverend of CTG
Line on ARG is a joke. I expected that though.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
The core thrust of your post is correct, but
(1) 6 of the last 7 wc finals (since the semis are on two different days) were won by the team with less rest.
Of the last 7 WC, 2 ('86 & '94) featured semi-finals played on the same day - 5 had their semi-finals played on different days.
(2) The exception you pointed out, Italy in '06, wasn't capable of winning the final in either regulation or extra-time, they needed penalties. I'd express the "less-rest" angle as follows -
No finalist whose semi-final ended before their final opponent's semi-final started, has won a final in regulation in the modern-era (1986+) of the WC (4 losses & 3 draws).
-----------------------------
There's a couple of historical angles that aren't kind on teams who have demonstrated the kind of woeful offense that Argentina has delivered to this point.
(1) Argentina didn't manage to score a regulation goal in its Last 16 knockout encounter with Switzerland.
There's been 8 other teams besides Argentina in WC history that have won a Last 16 knockout game after having failed to score a goal in regulation. Of those, only 1 has gone on to win the final. The differences between that lone exception (France in '98) and Argentina -
- France was a host nation; Argentina is not.
- France only conceded 1 general play goal before the final, equaling a 6-game WC defensive record for a finalist (matched since by a further 3 finalists); Argentina has conceded 3 (if someone wants to lean on the fact they haven't conceded any general play goals in the knockout phase prior to this final, it should be noted that 3 of the modern era's 7 losing finalists managed the same feat; while defense wins 'ships, some offense is needed to go with it).
- France managed to win 2 matches by 2+ goal margins prior to playing in the final; Argentina hasn't even managed 1 such result. How is this important? No team in WC history has ever won a final after failing to register at least one regulation win by a margin of 2+ goals prior to playing in the final.
-------
(2) Argentina scored 1 regulation goal in their QF vs. the Belgians, and 0 regulation goals in their SF vs. the Dutch.
No team has ever won a WC after managing just 1 total goal in regulation through their QF & SF matches. The last team to make a final after doing so? Argentina in 1990: they lost to Germany.
Gorgolon Lives
The Reverend of CTG
I think there's a trend...no WC in the South America was ever won by a Euro team. I think there were only a few WC's there though.
cortez the killer
Pretty much a regular
great stuff...and that lone knock-out regulation goal for arg. was a deflection that landed right in higuan's wheelhouse (though a much more difficult shot than the one he missed late vs. netherlands), if not for that, we would be talking about argentina playing 3 straight 120 minute games in knockout round. as for dimaria--groin is a tough injury, even if he does play, i doubt he goes more than 60 minutes.
plus germany put in 30 hard minutes vs. brazil. so much German firepower i expect argentina to hunker down--which they r very proficient at -- and take nil-nil after 90 and even 120 going into penalties.
...also, everyone talking about messi needing this win to match maradona, how about mueller needing 1 goal to win his 2nd consecutive golden boot in WC play!!
plus germany put in 30 hard minutes vs. brazil. so much German firepower i expect argentina to hunker down--which they r very proficient at -- and take nil-nil after 90 and even 120 going into penalties.
...also, everyone talking about messi needing this win to match maradona, how about mueller needing 1 goal to win his 2nd consecutive golden boot in WC play!!
Johnnyonthespot
CTG Regular
great overview
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Stats relating to the 3rd/4th playoff game
--------
Teams who lost their SF to the eventual WC winner have averaged 2.60 rpgp in 3rd/4th games.
Teams who lost their SF to the eventual WC loser have averaged 1.47 rpgp in 3rd/4th games.
While there's no unassailable use for these stats given the final winner won't be known until after the 3rd/4th game is done with, if someone has a strong feeling about the winner of the final then a little reverse engineering might be indulged in.
--------
South American teams in 3rd/4th games (7 appearances, all vs. European opponents):
- have averaged 1.43 rgpg vs. a Euro average of 2.04 rgpg.
- No SA team has led at half-time (4 draws, 3 deficits).
- Since the 1966 WC, SA teams have gone 1-3 SU (managing just one 1st half goal in total).
- No SA team has totaled more than 2 goals in a 3rd/4th game since 1938.
- Brazil has won only 2 (both 2h) of 6 halves played in these games (2-1 SU overall, conceding 1.33 rgpg. Last appearance in '78).
--------
4 host nations have appeared in a 3rd/4th playoff game
- They've averaged 2.00 rgpg for vs. 1.25 rgpg against.
- All 4 of these teams won the 2nd half (3-1, 1-0, 2-1, 1-0).
- The only team out of the 4 who failed to win the match (South Korea, in '02) was the only team who (1) failed to keep their opponent scoreless in the 1st half, and (2) failed to score the first goal.
--------
Some more tidbits:
- Contrary to normal football scoring patterns, 3rd/4th games have averaged more goals in the 1st half (2.12) than they have in the 2nd half (1.76).
- Teams who were shutout in losing their SF, have averaged 2.50 rgpg in their subsequent 3rd/4th appearance (with only 1 team out of 10 failing to score at least 2 reg. goals, but that exception did involve said team playing the host nation - Portugal in '06).
- Counterintuitive thou it may be, 3 of 10 losing teams in the pre-modern (& higher scoring) WC era were shutout in the 3rd/4th game, where only 1 of 7 losing teams in the modern (lower scoring) WC era have been shutout.
- More reflective of the lower scoring in the modern era as seen in this game, is the fact that while only 3 of 20 halves (15%) in pre-modern era 3rd/4th games went scoreless, 4 of 14 modern era halves (28.5%) have gone scoreless.
- No matter which era a 3rd/4th game was played in, the losers have averaged all but the same: pre-modern era losers @1.20 rgpg vs. modern era losers @1.28 gpg.
- The only 3rd/4th game drawn after 90 mins occurred in the modern WC era.
--------
--------
Teams who lost their SF to the eventual WC winner have averaged 2.60 rpgp in 3rd/4th games.
Teams who lost their SF to the eventual WC loser have averaged 1.47 rpgp in 3rd/4th games.
While there's no unassailable use for these stats given the final winner won't be known until after the 3rd/4th game is done with, if someone has a strong feeling about the winner of the final then a little reverse engineering might be indulged in.
--------
South American teams in 3rd/4th games (7 appearances, all vs. European opponents):
- have averaged 1.43 rgpg vs. a Euro average of 2.04 rgpg.
- No SA team has led at half-time (4 draws, 3 deficits).
- Since the 1966 WC, SA teams have gone 1-3 SU (managing just one 1st half goal in total).
- No SA team has totaled more than 2 goals in a 3rd/4th game since 1938.
- Brazil has won only 2 (both 2h) of 6 halves played in these games (2-1 SU overall, conceding 1.33 rgpg. Last appearance in '78).
--------
4 host nations have appeared in a 3rd/4th playoff game
- They've averaged 2.00 rgpg for vs. 1.25 rgpg against.
- All 4 of these teams won the 2nd half (3-1, 1-0, 2-1, 1-0).
- The only team out of the 4 who failed to win the match (South Korea, in '02) was the only team who (1) failed to keep their opponent scoreless in the 1st half, and (2) failed to score the first goal.
--------
Some more tidbits:
- Contrary to normal football scoring patterns, 3rd/4th games have averaged more goals in the 1st half (2.12) than they have in the 2nd half (1.76).
- Teams who were shutout in losing their SF, have averaged 2.50 rgpg in their subsequent 3rd/4th appearance (with only 1 team out of 10 failing to score at least 2 reg. goals, but that exception did involve said team playing the host nation - Portugal in '06).
- Counterintuitive thou it may be, 3 of 10 losing teams in the pre-modern (& higher scoring) WC era were shutout in the 3rd/4th game, where only 1 of 7 losing teams in the modern (lower scoring) WC era have been shutout.
- More reflective of the lower scoring in the modern era as seen in this game, is the fact that while only 3 of 20 halves (15%) in pre-modern era 3rd/4th games went scoreless, 4 of 14 modern era halves (28.5%) have gone scoreless.
- No matter which era a 3rd/4th game was played in, the losers have averaged all but the same: pre-modern era losers @1.20 rgpg vs. modern era losers @1.28 gpg.
- The only 3rd/4th game drawn after 90 mins occurred in the modern WC era.
--------
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Stats relating to WC final games
--------
Of the 12 pre-modern era finals, 2 (16.7%) were drawn at the end of regulation: both draws had the final tying goals scored inside the last 10 minutes (81st & 89th mins).
Of the 7 modern era finals, 3 (42.85%) have been drawn at the end of regulation, but not one has involved a 2nd half goal.
--------
Neither of the 2 continents to have provided WC winners have supplied the winner for 3 straight WC.
South American winners: 1930, 1950, 1958, 1962, 1970, 1978, 1986, 1994, 2002
European winners: 1934, 1938, 1954, 1966, 1974, 1982, 1990, 1998, 2006, 2010
Europe's current streak is only the 3rd time either continent has managed to win consecutive titles.
--------
Here's something we won't be able to use until after the 3rd/4th place game is in the books:
11 out of 14 teams (78.6%) that have won the 3rd/4th game in regulation, have then watched the team that beat them in the semi-finals go on to win the WC.
Tends to make solid sense, this one. Of the 2 losing semi-finalists, logically you'd give the one who lost to the eventual winner the better chance of winning the 3rd/4th game, by dint of the fact they faced the tougher opponent in their SF. If you fancy Argentina, it's time to start wearing orange.
--------
--------
Of the 12 pre-modern era finals, 2 (16.7%) were drawn at the end of regulation: both draws had the final tying goals scored inside the last 10 minutes (81st & 89th mins).
Of the 7 modern era finals, 3 (42.85%) have been drawn at the end of regulation, but not one has involved a 2nd half goal.
--------
Neither of the 2 continents to have provided WC winners have supplied the winner for 3 straight WC.
South American winners: 1930, 1950, 1958, 1962, 1970, 1978, 1986, 1994, 2002
European winners: 1934, 1938, 1954, 1966, 1974, 1982, 1990, 1998, 2006, 2010
Europe's current streak is only the 3rd time either continent has managed to win consecutive titles.
--------
Here's something we won't be able to use until after the 3rd/4th place game is in the books:
11 out of 14 teams (78.6%) that have won the 3rd/4th game in regulation, have then watched the team that beat them in the semi-finals go on to win the WC.
Tends to make solid sense, this one. Of the 2 losing semi-finalists, logically you'd give the one who lost to the eventual winner the better chance of winning the 3rd/4th game, by dint of the fact they faced the tougher opponent in their SF. If you fancy Argentina, it's time to start wearing orange.
--------
Pyppurs
Pretty much a regular
3rd place game
Not sure how meaningless this stat is but (yes the smaple size is small - basing off 2 games really)...
Essentially host country favoured to win and goals 2H>1H - times of the goals will/might come into play for 2nd half over and ingame over
Betcrimes - I think as the host country, losing the SF and playing the 3rd place game should not be grouped with the other 3rd place games.
Im bored without any games, so I made a table
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]Host Nation[/TD]
[TD]3rd Place GAME[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1966 England[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]TEAMS[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Portugal[/TD]
[TD]12'[/TD]
[TD]89'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Russia[/TD]
[TD]43'[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1970 Mexico[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Uruguay[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]W Germany[/TD]
[TD]26'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1974 W Germany[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Poland[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]76'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Brazil[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1978 Argentina[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Brazil[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]64', 71'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Italy[/TD]
[TD]38'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1982 Spain[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Poland[/TD]
[TD]40', 44'[/TD]
[TD]46'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]France[/TD]
[TD]13'[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1986 Mexico[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]France[/TD]
[TD]27', 43'[/TD]
[TD](104', 111' in ET)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Belgium[/TD]
[TD]11'[/TD]
[TD]73'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1990 Italy[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Italy[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]71', 86'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]England[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]81'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1994 USA[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Sweden[/TD]
[TD]8', 30', 37', 40'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Bulgaria[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1998 France[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Holland[/TD]
[TD]21'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Croatia[/TD]
[TD]13', 35'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002 Japan / S.Korea[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Turkey[/TD]
[TD]1', 13', 32'[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]S.Korea[/TD]
[TD]9'[/TD]
[TD]90+3'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006 Germany[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Germany[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]56', 60', 78'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Portugal[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]88'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2010 S.Africa[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Germany[/TD]
[TD]19'[/TD]
[TD]56', 82'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Uruguay[/TD]
[TD]28'[/TD]
[TD]51'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2014 Brazil[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Brazil[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Holland[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I would draw the line for this stat at the 74 and/or 78 WC, just due to the modern influences that have changed in the game over time (i.e. style of play, training, equipment, travel, $$ - both in player contracts and 3rd place game payout, etc...). Not gonna articulate the examples (took longer than I thought to make the table).
2002 - I would consider an outlier. Even though the game was in Daegu, therefore actual home game for S. Korea - they got scored on the 1st min (already changes the dynamics of the game - KO stage had games of 1-1(2-1aet) v Italy, 0-0aet v Spain, and 1-0 v Germany - all 3 were controversial games that benefited S.Korea to advance, and had 3 goals in the first 15'. If you look at the 1st goal, its an obvious mistake which you can attribute to nerves (i don't think so) or just bad luck + mistake.
2014 red 1stH goals
Brazil has scored in all games (bold are Neymar goals) Total 11 goals (of which Neymar has 4) - 5 1H goals (of which Neymar has 3)
Conceded 10 (of which 8 1H, 1og and 5 v Germany)
(3-1) Brazil 29', 71', 90+1' v Croatia 11' (og)
(0-0) Brazil v Mexico
(4-1) Brazil 17', 35', 49', 84' v Cameroon 26'
(1-1aet) R16 Brazil 18' v Chile 32'
(2-1) R8 Brazil 7', 69' v Columbia 80'
(1-7) R4 Brazil 90' v Germany 11', 23', 24', 26', 29', 69', 79'
Holland scored total goals 9 (of which 2 1H)
Conceded 6 (of which 4 1H)
(5-1) Holland 44', 52', 65', 73', 80' v Spain 27'
(3-2) Holland 20', 58', 68' v Australia 21', 54'
(0-2) Holland v Chile 20', 43'
(2-1) R16 Holland 88', 90+4' v Mexico 48'
(0-0) R8 0-0 Holland v Costa Rica
(0-0) R4 0-0 Holland v Argentina
Add in the 7-1 drudging, I would think Brazil come out slow in the first 30-40 mins to keep the score respectable. Plus Silva pending starting XI.
Scolari reacts to Germany rout - Brazil World Cup 2014
Not sure how meaningless this stat is but (yes the smaple size is small - basing off 2 games really)...
Essentially host country favoured to win and goals 2H>1H - times of the goals will/might come into play for 2nd half over and ingame over
Betcrimes - I think as the host country, losing the SF and playing the 3rd place game should not be grouped with the other 3rd place games.
Im bored without any games, so I made a table
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]Host Nation[/TD]
[TD]3rd Place GAME[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1966 England[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]TEAMS[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Portugal[/TD]
[TD]12'[/TD]
[TD]89'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Russia[/TD]
[TD]43'[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1970 Mexico[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Uruguay[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]W Germany[/TD]
[TD]26'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1974 W Germany[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Poland[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]76'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Brazil[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1978 Argentina[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Brazil[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]64', 71'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Italy[/TD]
[TD]38'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1982 Spain[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Poland[/TD]
[TD]40', 44'[/TD]
[TD]46'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]France[/TD]
[TD]13'[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1986 Mexico[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]France[/TD]
[TD]27', 43'[/TD]
[TD](104', 111' in ET)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Belgium[/TD]
[TD]11'[/TD]
[TD]73'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1990 Italy[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Italy[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]71', 86'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]England[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]81'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1994 USA[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Sweden[/TD]
[TD]8', 30', 37', 40'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Bulgaria[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1998 France[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Holland[/TD]
[TD]21'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Croatia[/TD]
[TD]13', 35'[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002 Japan / S.Korea[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Turkey[/TD]
[TD]1', 13', 32'[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]S.Korea[/TD]
[TD]9'[/TD]
[TD]90+3'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006 Germany[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Germany[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]56', 60', 78'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Portugal[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]88'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2010 S.Africa[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Germany[/TD]
[TD]19'[/TD]
[TD]56', 82'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Uruguay[/TD]
[TD]28'[/TD]
[TD]51'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2014 Brazil[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Teams[/TD]
[TD]1st H[/TD]
[TD]2nd H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Brazil[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: grid"]
[TD]Holland[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I would draw the line for this stat at the 74 and/or 78 WC, just due to the modern influences that have changed in the game over time (i.e. style of play, training, equipment, travel, $$ - both in player contracts and 3rd place game payout, etc...). Not gonna articulate the examples (took longer than I thought to make the table).
2002 - I would consider an outlier. Even though the game was in Daegu, therefore actual home game for S. Korea - they got scored on the 1st min (already changes the dynamics of the game - KO stage had games of 1-1(2-1aet) v Italy, 0-0aet v Spain, and 1-0 v Germany - all 3 were controversial games that benefited S.Korea to advance, and had 3 goals in the first 15'. If you look at the 1st goal, its an obvious mistake which you can attribute to nerves (i don't think so) or just bad luck + mistake.
2014 red 1stH goals
Brazil has scored in all games (bold are Neymar goals) Total 11 goals (of which Neymar has 4) - 5 1H goals (of which Neymar has 3)
Conceded 10 (of which 8 1H, 1og and 5 v Germany)
(3-1) Brazil 29', 71', 90+1' v Croatia 11' (og)
(0-0) Brazil v Mexico
(4-1) Brazil 17', 35', 49', 84' v Cameroon 26'
(1-1aet) R16 Brazil 18' v Chile 32'
(2-1) R8 Brazil 7', 69' v Columbia 80'
(1-7) R4 Brazil 90' v Germany 11', 23', 24', 26', 29', 69', 79'
Holland scored total goals 9 (of which 2 1H)
Conceded 6 (of which 4 1H)
(5-1) Holland 44', 52', 65', 73', 80' v Spain 27'
(3-2) Holland 20', 58', 68' v Australia 21', 54'
(0-2) Holland v Chile 20', 43'
(2-1) R16 Holland 88', 90+4' v Mexico 48'
(0-0) R8 0-0 Holland v Costa Rica
(0-0) R4 0-0 Holland v Argentina
Add in the 7-1 drudging, I would think Brazil come out slow in the first 30-40 mins to keep the score respectable. Plus Silva pending starting XI.
Scolari reacts to Germany rout - Brazil World Cup 2014
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
:cheers:
I believe Brazil will have a hard time to recover from their painful 7-1 loss to Germany. And even if they regained their confidence back and Thiago Silva playing for the third-place play-off, they lack the firepower (Neymar) to score goals and overcome the Germans. Sure, Oscar have had a two goals, then there's Fred and Hulk, whom I've seen played below-par until the end.
The game could probably resolved in regular time, Dutch will win in a small margin.
The game could probably resolved in regular time, Dutch will win in a small margin.
cortez the killer
Pretty much a regular
11 out of 14 teams (78.6%) that have won the 3rd/4th game in regulation, have then watched the team that beat them in the semi-finals go on to win the WC.
Tends to make solid sense, this one. Of the 2 losing semi-finalists, logically you'd give the one who lost to the eventual winner the better chance of winning the 3rd/4th game, by dint of the fact they faced the tougher opponent in their SF. If you fancy Argentina, it's time to start wearing orange.
--great trend here BC--even more so with size of the can of whoop-ass the germans opened up on brazil. ...and as much as hurting neymar hurts brazil's offense, it does absolutely nothing to diminish their defense (prolly improves it actually) with silva back. to me that could represent the margin of victory (7-1 without him and crazy-ass side show bob as captain--who should have been red carded for that bitch kick that wiffed on mueller). i gues what i am trying to say is a 2-1 or 1-0 win for either side would be enough, we dont need to c a multi-goal margin, no way on earth the brazilians should be dissected by a tired dutch roster that has played 2 straight emotional PK games (pretty much just used 2 subs vs the ticos and even then huntalarr came on very late in ET).
i am not so sold on more 1st half goals than 2nd half though, as mentioned above, brazil has GOT to play more conservative from the start, cant lose the game b4 the 30 minute mark. if you ignore that total gaffe by hulk that lead to the chile equalizier, their D was great in the 1st 2 games in knockout play. and the dutch are bound to wear down in the 2nd half--van persie has nothing in the tank, dejong cant go more than a half--both should start on the bench cause they will need to be subbed out and the other 9 on the pitch have basically played almost 120 minutes in back to back games. prolly c more memphis , maybe fehr or lens--any way you slice it schnieder, robben, wijnaldum, the wingbacks and cbs have played way too much football in way to hot of an environment for their pale asses.
scolari's gotta know this right? plan has gotta be to ease into this game and catch a tired dutch squad on the counter in the 2nd half. don't waste a breath talking about van persie and focus on robben.
last comment. i disagree about hulk playing well this tournament. this dude is harold minor with kleets. all the talent, looks like a stud but when the game starts he is a total dud. time to score a goal or pack your shit and say goodbye to the national team and let the young dudes move on in mr. green and purple.
Tends to make solid sense, this one. Of the 2 losing semi-finalists, logically you'd give the one who lost to the eventual winner the better chance of winning the 3rd/4th game, by dint of the fact they faced the tougher opponent in their SF. If you fancy Argentina, it's time to start wearing orange.
--great trend here BC--even more so with size of the can of whoop-ass the germans opened up on brazil. ...and as much as hurting neymar hurts brazil's offense, it does absolutely nothing to diminish their defense (prolly improves it actually) with silva back. to me that could represent the margin of victory (7-1 without him and crazy-ass side show bob as captain--who should have been red carded for that bitch kick that wiffed on mueller). i gues what i am trying to say is a 2-1 or 1-0 win for either side would be enough, we dont need to c a multi-goal margin, no way on earth the brazilians should be dissected by a tired dutch roster that has played 2 straight emotional PK games (pretty much just used 2 subs vs the ticos and even then huntalarr came on very late in ET).
i am not so sold on more 1st half goals than 2nd half though, as mentioned above, brazil has GOT to play more conservative from the start, cant lose the game b4 the 30 minute mark. if you ignore that total gaffe by hulk that lead to the chile equalizier, their D was great in the 1st 2 games in knockout play. and the dutch are bound to wear down in the 2nd half--van persie has nothing in the tank, dejong cant go more than a half--both should start on the bench cause they will need to be subbed out and the other 9 on the pitch have basically played almost 120 minutes in back to back games. prolly c more memphis , maybe fehr or lens--any way you slice it schnieder, robben, wijnaldum, the wingbacks and cbs have played way too much football in way to hot of an environment for their pale asses.
scolari's gotta know this right? plan has gotta be to ease into this game and catch a tired dutch squad on the counter in the 2nd half. don't waste a breath talking about van persie and focus on robben.
last comment. i disagree about hulk playing well this tournament. this dude is harold minor with kleets. all the talent, looks like a stud but when the game starts he is a total dud. time to score a goal or pack your shit and say goodbye to the national team and let the young dudes move on in mr. green and purple.
DaRaiders
Pretty much a regular
SAO PAULO (AP) -- Another World Cup, another sad story for the Netherlands.
A tournament that began so brightly for the men in the vibrant orange shirts will end with a game their coach thinks is pointless and which the squad isn't really interested in playing.
''They can keep it,'' forward Arjen Robben said of the third-place game. ''Only one prize counts and that is becoming world champion.''
Reflecting their gloom, the Dutch squad began its preparations for Saturday's third-place match against host Brazil under dreary gray skies in Sao Paulo on Thursday, a day after a painful penalty shootout loss to Argentina in the semifinals ensured another missed opportunity.
Those subdued preparations involved a light workout in the drizzle at Pacaembu Stadium that lasted less than an hour before the players disappeared back down a flight of stairs and into the dressing room. Even the well-meaning and hearty cheers a group of Brazilians gave the players as they arrived for the training session probably won't have helped.
A month ago, the Dutch were flying high. A 5-1 win over world champion Spain announced them as the team to watch at the World Cup. That status faded gradually and the Netherlands only managed two goals in three games in the knockout stage, none in the quarterfinals and semifinals.
The elimination in a shootout at Itaquerao Stadium on Wednesday night means the crucial Dutch stats now read: Three World Cup finals, two semifinals, still no titles.
Coach Louis van Gaal, who takes charge of his country one more time before moving on to a new challenge with Manchester United, acknowledged that his team had initially been praised as the best at the tournament. Yet it counted for nothing in the end.
''In general, I'm not really interested in what people say about me and my team,'' Van Gaal said following the semifinal defeat. ''It's a good thing if people are very positive ... but the issue in a championship like this one is that you score one more goal than your opponent, which we didn't do.''
Van Gaal will also get very little joy from his last game with the national team. He has campaigned for a decade to have the third-place playoff at the World Cup scrapped, he said, because it is meaningless and a drain on players who are already desperately disappointed.
''I think that this match should never be played,'' Van Gaal said. ''I've been saying this for 10 years. But anyway, we will just have to play that match.''
View gallery
Argentina players celebrate after winning a shootout at the end of the World Cup semifinal soccer ma …
So, what went wrong for the Dutch this time?
The young, inexperienced defense, which was doubted ahead of the World Cup, stood up. But the attack, which won enormous praise after demolishing Spain on a sunny day in Salvador a month ago, pretty much collapsed.
Robben and captain Robin van Persie didn't score in open play in the knockout games, with Van Persie extending an unwanted personal record: He has still never found the net at the business end of a major tournament.
Like the Dutch teams that lost back-to-back World Cup finals in 1974 and '78, the Robben-Van Persie generation looks set to finish empty-handed. Robben, Van Persie and midfielder Wesley Sneijder, the trio on which the Dutch squad of 2014 was based, are all 30. Having lost in the final four years ago in South Africa and in the semifinals here, Russia 2018 may be too far away for them to have another shot.
But losing is as much a part of football as winning, Robben said, providing a surprisingly upbeat outlook so soon after another heart-wrenching failure.
''You're a footballer and sportsman and a defeat hurts, especially when you're so close to the final,'' Robben said. ''That is painful but ... it's all part of it.''
A tournament that began so brightly for the men in the vibrant orange shirts will end with a game their coach thinks is pointless and which the squad isn't really interested in playing.
''They can keep it,'' forward Arjen Robben said of the third-place game. ''Only one prize counts and that is becoming world champion.''
Reflecting their gloom, the Dutch squad began its preparations for Saturday's third-place match against host Brazil under dreary gray skies in Sao Paulo on Thursday, a day after a painful penalty shootout loss to Argentina in the semifinals ensured another missed opportunity.
Those subdued preparations involved a light workout in the drizzle at Pacaembu Stadium that lasted less than an hour before the players disappeared back down a flight of stairs and into the dressing room. Even the well-meaning and hearty cheers a group of Brazilians gave the players as they arrived for the training session probably won't have helped.
A month ago, the Dutch were flying high. A 5-1 win over world champion Spain announced them as the team to watch at the World Cup. That status faded gradually and the Netherlands only managed two goals in three games in the knockout stage, none in the quarterfinals and semifinals.
The elimination in a shootout at Itaquerao Stadium on Wednesday night means the crucial Dutch stats now read: Three World Cup finals, two semifinals, still no titles.
Coach Louis van Gaal, who takes charge of his country one more time before moving on to a new challenge with Manchester United, acknowledged that his team had initially been praised as the best at the tournament. Yet it counted for nothing in the end.
''In general, I'm not really interested in what people say about me and my team,'' Van Gaal said following the semifinal defeat. ''It's a good thing if people are very positive ... but the issue in a championship like this one is that you score one more goal than your opponent, which we didn't do.''
Van Gaal will also get very little joy from his last game with the national team. He has campaigned for a decade to have the third-place playoff at the World Cup scrapped, he said, because it is meaningless and a drain on players who are already desperately disappointed.
''I think that this match should never be played,'' Van Gaal said. ''I've been saying this for 10 years. But anyway, we will just have to play that match.''
View gallery
Argentina players celebrate after winning a shootout at the end of the World Cup semifinal soccer ma …
So, what went wrong for the Dutch this time?
The young, inexperienced defense, which was doubted ahead of the World Cup, stood up. But the attack, which won enormous praise after demolishing Spain on a sunny day in Salvador a month ago, pretty much collapsed.
Robben and captain Robin van Persie didn't score in open play in the knockout games, with Van Persie extending an unwanted personal record: He has still never found the net at the business end of a major tournament.
Like the Dutch teams that lost back-to-back World Cup finals in 1974 and '78, the Robben-Van Persie generation looks set to finish empty-handed. Robben, Van Persie and midfielder Wesley Sneijder, the trio on which the Dutch squad of 2014 was based, are all 30. Having lost in the final four years ago in South Africa and in the semifinals here, Russia 2018 may be too far away for them to have another shot.
But losing is as much a part of football as winning, Robben said, providing a surprisingly upbeat outlook so soon after another heart-wrenching failure.
''You're a footballer and sportsman and a defeat hurts, especially when you're so close to the final,'' Robben said. ''That is painful but ... it's all part of it.''
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
my wagers
Brasil ML @ 2.20 (8u)
Brasil 1h ML @ 2.8 (2u)
Brasil -1 @ 3.00 (2u)
Brasil o1.5 goals @ 1.89 (5u)
Brasil Half/Full @ 3.70 (1u)
Brasil to win both halves @ 7.00 (1u)
Hulk to score @ 3.35 (1u)
Not too sure about the o3 seems a bit yuck and for some reason the odds have dropped so I'm a bit weary there. However I"m more confident that Brasil redeems themselves whereas the Dutch don't seem to give a shit. Plus when a team loses a pen shootout they are 1-9 the next game and right now the Dutch are underdogs which bodes well.
Brasil ML @ 2.20 (8u)
Brasil 1h ML @ 2.8 (2u)
Brasil -1 @ 3.00 (2u)
Brasil o1.5 goals @ 1.89 (5u)
Brasil Half/Full @ 3.70 (1u)
Brasil to win both halves @ 7.00 (1u)
Hulk to score @ 3.35 (1u)
Not too sure about the o3 seems a bit yuck and for some reason the odds have dropped so I'm a bit weary there. However I"m more confident that Brasil redeems themselves whereas the Dutch don't seem to give a shit. Plus when a team loses a pen shootout they are 1-9 the next game and right now the Dutch are underdogs which bodes well.
braves
Pretty much a regular
Like that wager Mike.
Be interested to see what type of lineup the Dutch throw out. They only have two days of rest , and will be their 3rd game in a week, with 2 previous going to ET. Even if they were motivated I'd still be on Brazil here. Seems like everything is set up for a Brazil victory
Be interested to see what type of lineup the Dutch throw out. They only have two days of rest , and will be their 3rd game in a week, with 2 previous going to ET. Even if they were motivated I'd still be on Brazil here. Seems like everything is set up for a Brazil victory
aplous
Donkey Hater
One would figure Brazil would mop themselves up from national humility and put up a strong effort. Im just praying we dont see the Dutch beat it around their back 4 for another pathetic 90 minutes. Really hope RVP is not in the lineup. His attacking map against Argentina was one of the most pathetic Ive ever seen, though he didnt get much service.
dylanphan
Pretty much a regular
I bet Brazil earlier in the week. I'm starting to warm to the over in this one too - but really would prefer to see lineups.
As mentioned many times, overs tend to hit in 3rd/4th match for obvious reasons. I have posted that I kind of expect Brazil to put up a strong effort to bounce back from embarrassment and still do. But, reading over a few things and here are some random thoughts...
Dutch should be pretty damn tired, no? I mean, lots of extra time games, one less day rest.....wtf would van Gaal start Robben? Suppose he gets hurt. RvP obviously was poor last match, and guess who his club manager is? No reason RvP gonna play. But, this will lend opportunity for younger, quicker guys eager to show their skills. I'd expect Lens, Huntelaar at the very least to get starts.
Brazil played a very, very defensive minded lineup against Germany, and I think we see some major shakeups there too. Willian I suppose would get the nod, with Silva back, I'd expect maybe another offensive minded player thrown into the mix too. Hulk gotta get one in the net this WC, no? It's not like he's shy with the ball, and very dangerous on fk's too.
I don't think either team gonna sit back and knock it around, both teams will want to try to score.
but mostly, I think neither team is going to want to go to et of pk's to decide this game, they want to get the fuck out of there asap. If Brazil get up 1,2-0 early, they are not going to step off the gas, eveyrone want to score. If Dutch get a goal, Brazil is not going to want to go back to back embarassments. If it's 1-1 both teams are going to go for goals, neither will want to play more soccer.
o2.5 -135 is looking pretty good, I'll play that if its the same (or better) after lineups announced.
As mentioned many times, overs tend to hit in 3rd/4th match for obvious reasons. I have posted that I kind of expect Brazil to put up a strong effort to bounce back from embarrassment and still do. But, reading over a few things and here are some random thoughts...
Dutch should be pretty damn tired, no? I mean, lots of extra time games, one less day rest.....wtf would van Gaal start Robben? Suppose he gets hurt. RvP obviously was poor last match, and guess who his club manager is? No reason RvP gonna play. But, this will lend opportunity for younger, quicker guys eager to show their skills. I'd expect Lens, Huntelaar at the very least to get starts.
Brazil played a very, very defensive minded lineup against Germany, and I think we see some major shakeups there too. Willian I suppose would get the nod, with Silva back, I'd expect maybe another offensive minded player thrown into the mix too. Hulk gotta get one in the net this WC, no? It's not like he's shy with the ball, and very dangerous on fk's too.
I don't think either team gonna sit back and knock it around, both teams will want to try to score.
but mostly, I think neither team is going to want to go to et of pk's to decide this game, they want to get the fuck out of there asap. If Brazil get up 1,2-0 early, they are not going to step off the gas, eveyrone want to score. If Dutch get a goal, Brazil is not going to want to go back to back embarassments. If it's 1-1 both teams are going to go for goals, neither will want to play more soccer.
o2.5 -135 is looking pretty good, I'll play that if its the same (or better) after lineups announced.
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
very interesting, from the "we don't give a shit" attitude to now fielding your supposed strongest XI.
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
hahah i called this shit!
http://www.thebeaverton.com/sports/...cted-over-germany-argentina-world-cup-matchup
http://www.thebeaverton.com/sports/...cted-over-germany-argentina-world-cup-matchup
ManchesterUk
Fat Bloke
Brazil are shit,now all of a sudden they are much better ? cause they need/want to win ?
Nah not having it,taking Dutch ML and the over.
GL :hello:
Nah not having it,taking Dutch ML and the over.
GL :hello:
jdoggoakley
Pretty much a regular
sorry if I missed this question elsewhere, but can someone explain the difference between a Team Total goal line of 1-1/2 and 1-1/4??
[TABLE="class: matchupbox"]
[TR="class: TrGameOdd"]
[TD="align: left"]Jul 12[/TD]
[TD]9401[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]BRAZIL TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]o1½-115[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameOdd"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 12:00 PM [/TD]
[TD]9402[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]BRAZIL TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]u1½-105[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameOdd"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 12:00 PM [/TD]
[TD]9403[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Draw[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: banner"]
[TD="colspan: 8"]Netherlands Team Total (Netherlands vs Brazil)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameEven"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Jul 12[/TD]
[TD]9405[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]NETHERLANDS TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]o1¼+110[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameEven"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 12:00 PM [/TD]
[TD]9406[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]NETHERLANDS TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]u1¼-130[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: matchupbox"]
[TR="class: TrGameOdd"]
[TD="align: left"]Jul 12[/TD]
[TD]9401[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]BRAZIL TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]o1½-115[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameOdd"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 12:00 PM [/TD]
[TD]9402[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]BRAZIL TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]u1½-105[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameOdd"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 12:00 PM [/TD]
[TD]9403[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Draw[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: banner"]
[TD="colspan: 8"]Netherlands Team Total (Netherlands vs Brazil)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameEven"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Jul 12[/TD]
[TD]9405[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]NETHERLANDS TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]o1¼+110[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: TrGameEven"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 12:00 PM [/TD]
[TD]9406[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]NETHERLANDS TOT GOALS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]u1¼-130[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
jdoggoakley
Pretty much a regular
huh. Interesting. Thanks.
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
line creeping up to Dutch since they released line up
c.r.e.a.m.
Pretty much a regular
so we betting on 'tina because the dutch won third?
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
I wouldn't view it as the sole basis to make an Argentinian bet. Just another background factor of whatever weight one deems to give it.
But now the 3/4 score is known, I can add that the 5 previous teams to have won the 3/4 game by 2+ goals have all seen the team that beat them in their SF lift the WC trophy (4 won in regulation, 1 won on penalties).
The precedent Brazil has set is no team had ever lost their SF & 3/4 games by a combined 9 goals margin (almost twice as bad as the next highest: a 5 goal margin, twice). They've been so poor that their very uncompetitiveness throws up the question of can those past 3/4 results and their correlation to the final winner be applied here with any meaning.
Last edited:
c.r.e.a.m.
Pretty much a regular
thanks for the very insightful reply BC.
i view this finals as the best team in the 2014 world cup vs the perceived best player in soccer today. might lay off and enjoy this game as a fan but the degenerate in me want to have some form of action in this game.
cheers!
i view this finals as the best team in the 2014 world cup vs the perceived best player in soccer today. might lay off and enjoy this game as a fan but the degenerate in me want to have some form of action in this game.
cheers!
deuce's wild
Pretty much a regular
usually the best team wins in these types of settings....enjoy
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
cream:cheers:
----------------------
Looking at some of the trends for recent WC finals, it's very hard to go past one stand out fact: very low scoring 1st halves (bolded = penalty):
1978 : 1-0 (37')
1982 : 0-0 (first WC to feature 24 teams)
1986 : 1-0 (23')
1990 : 0-0
1994 : 0-0
1998 : 2-0 (27', 45+1')
2002 : 0-0
2006 : 1-1 (7', 19')
2010 : 0-0
6 goals in 9 halves (2nd halves delivered 13 goals; last 6 finals delivered an equal amount of goals through both halves, namely 4).
No German team has scored a 1st half goal in that nation's recent WC finals from the period covered by these stats ('82, '86, '90, '06 - '74 was the last time, as the home nation); in turn, those 4 teams combined to concede only 1 goal. In contrast, Germany combined with its opponents to total 11 2nd half goals. Argentina's 2 finals from this period ('86, '90) were both against Germany (1 1st half goal vs. 5 2nd half goals).
No surprising pattern here. Teams in WC finals routinely play not to lose in the 1st half, and the high scoring exceptions involve either a home nation (France '98, who still needed stoppage time to grab their 2nd) or an early penalty ('06's dodgy call) muddying the usual cautionary approach waters (the previous final with an early penalty - 1974's 2nd minute - set the stage for 3 1st half goals. That remains the highest scoring 1st half in a WC involving the basic modern format).
-----
Matching this trend for generally low scoring opening stanzas to the final, is the fact that Rio de Janiero has been one of the lowest scoring venues at the WC: 9 goals in 6 games, with only 1 game having featured both sides scoring (the loser of that game needed an 85th min strike to get on the board). 5 of 12 halves have been scoreless, 1 game has been scoreless and another game needed an 88th min strike to avoid being scoreless.
-----
I expect this game to deliver a boring opening stanza with both teams not out to lose it early, the only thing upsetting this expectation being the Germans are that much better than the SA team (still hard to judge how good the Argies are, specifically their defense, but even if they are doomed to be overrun, I obv. don't see them folding nearly as quickly as the Brazlians did). Draw 1st half, 1st goal after 26:59 & 2nd half to be the highest scoring half are the pre-game bets I'm interested in, and the 1st half Under will be my focus live for the first 45.
----------------------
Looking at some of the trends for recent WC finals, it's very hard to go past one stand out fact: very low scoring 1st halves (bolded = penalty):
1978 : 1-0 (37')
1982 : 0-0 (first WC to feature 24 teams)
1986 : 1-0 (23')
1990 : 0-0
1994 : 0-0
1998 : 2-0 (27', 45+1')
2002 : 0-0
2006 : 1-1 (7', 19')
2010 : 0-0
6 goals in 9 halves (2nd halves delivered 13 goals; last 6 finals delivered an equal amount of goals through both halves, namely 4).
No German team has scored a 1st half goal in that nation's recent WC finals from the period covered by these stats ('82, '86, '90, '06 - '74 was the last time, as the home nation); in turn, those 4 teams combined to concede only 1 goal. In contrast, Germany combined with its opponents to total 11 2nd half goals. Argentina's 2 finals from this period ('86, '90) were both against Germany (1 1st half goal vs. 5 2nd half goals).
No surprising pattern here. Teams in WC finals routinely play not to lose in the 1st half, and the high scoring exceptions involve either a home nation (France '98, who still needed stoppage time to grab their 2nd) or an early penalty ('06's dodgy call) muddying the usual cautionary approach waters (the previous final with an early penalty - 1974's 2nd minute - set the stage for 3 1st half goals. That remains the highest scoring 1st half in a WC involving the basic modern format).
-----
Matching this trend for generally low scoring opening stanzas to the final, is the fact that Rio de Janiero has been one of the lowest scoring venues at the WC: 9 goals in 6 games, with only 1 game having featured both sides scoring (the loser of that game needed an 85th min strike to get on the board). 5 of 12 halves have been scoreless, 1 game has been scoreless and another game needed an 88th min strike to avoid being scoreless.
-----
I expect this game to deliver a boring opening stanza with both teams not out to lose it early, the only thing upsetting this expectation being the Germans are that much better than the SA team (still hard to judge how good the Argies are, specifically their defense, but even if they are doomed to be overrun, I obv. don't see them folding nearly as quickly as the Brazlians did). Draw 1st half, 1st goal after 26:59 & 2nd half to be the highest scoring half are the pre-game bets I'm interested in, and the 1st half Under will be my focus live for the first 45.
cortez the killer
Pretty much a regular
...i wouldn't even b surprised with nil-nil heading into added extra time--germany took that long to break down algeria and really didn't worry about putting their foot on the petal until after the 1st 90 (though i think subs made by loew today would be more geared towards preparing for pks (where germany should have the advantage with neuer, their many offensive weapons and trends/having seen argentina in pks 4 days ago
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
agreed Cortez
sometimes a lot of offensive weapons does not mean a goal fest.
We've seen a lot of this in CL type games where teams that COULD score a lot get cancelled out by an opposition that can also hold onto the ball.
Plus this is a one and done, team that makes the least mistakes wins. Quality is there but just an errant pass/miscommunication both squads have the players to finish the job
sometimes a lot of offensive weapons does not mean a goal fest.
We've seen a lot of this in CL type games where teams that COULD score a lot get cancelled out by an opposition that can also hold onto the ball.
Plus this is a one and done, team that makes the least mistakes wins. Quality is there but just an errant pass/miscommunication both squads have the players to finish the job
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