What have we learned Week 3
- Thread starter EstreetPicks
- Start date
SD and Denver offenses are maximizing there potential . Difference is SD can play some defense as evidenced by not allowing NY to do much of anything till the game was 38-14 but Den on the other hand cant stop anyone .
I am to lazy to recap all the games last week . I do think the most misleading final score is Tenny and Houston. As mentioned Houston pissed so manyc chances away . I still think down 12 they should have kicked a FG in the mid 3rd quarter the 1st time they had it inside the 5 yd line....
I still satnd by Big Ben being to slow in terms of release , decision making and even his footwork....Great point on ESPN about how the offense is so timing orientated and with a shit OL it makes things twice as ugly . Still Big Ben needs to be better IMO...
GB sustained alot of bumps and brusies especially on defense last week . Might be a bad spot for them as they are licking there wounds...
Thats it for now and GL in week 4:cheers:
I am to lazy to recap all the games last week . I do think the most misleading final score is Tenny and Houston. As mentioned Houston pissed so manyc chances away . I still think down 12 they should have kicked a FG in the mid 3rd quarter the 1st time they had it inside the 5 yd line....
I still satnd by Big Ben being to slow in terms of release , decision making and even his footwork....Great point on ESPN about how the offense is so timing orientated and with a shit OL it makes things twice as ugly . Still Big Ben needs to be better IMO...
GB sustained alot of bumps and brusies especially on defense last week . Might be a bad spot for them as they are licking there wounds...
Thats it for now and GL in week 4:cheers:
Look at who they played in 2007 ...The Home games alone says it all...
Buf , SF , Seattle , Balt , Cle , Miami , Cincy and Jax....
and then in 5 of the 15 games he had 19 TDs and 2 Ints leaving 13 tds and 9Ints in the other 10 games .....
Buffalo had injury issues especially in the early part of 2007 , SF and SEA traveling East , balt had a ton of injury issues last year , Cle is medicore on defense and they had secondary issues , Miami uh 1-15 , Cincy was using anyone they could find a LB and Jax is pretty solid but good vs the run and below avg the pass .....Plus they throw alot in the red zone ....Parkers TD went from 16-2 and I understand he lost goal duties but that says alot .....
Not trying to knock Big Ben but real serious issues IMO looking at him like a superstar when he is playing a bunch of soft opponents . On the stat sheet he had a very solid season but Parker also started great and faded about 5 or 6 games in so the had no choice but to throw the ball .
I wouldnt say he is that bad of a pocket passer but its definetly a known thing he throws better on the run then dropping back....
Sportsnut im not saying that hes the best pocket passer ever, but hes fine, he is better on the run, but he is certainly far and away from being a bad pocket passer let alone the worst.
I think its incredible how underrated he is. So we had a weak schedule last year, does that really take away from it? We aren't the only ones with weak schedules last year, and only 2 other QB's were even close to him. Our whole division had the same schedule we did, why didn't Carson Palmer not even come close to his numbers. Why didnt Brett the idiot come close. You can easily say the Patriots had a weak schedule last year therefore that inflated Brady's numbers, but no one brings that up, and it shouldnt be brought up. All 32 teams in the NFL are competitive, this isnt college football. If after 4 years the jury is still out for you then this year should prove it to you, even though I dont think you even close to accurate on your portrayel of his shoulder bothering him or whatever, we have no playmakers etc.... And also about Willie Parkers, hes average, no one in their right mind will tell you otherwise and hes not gonna ever have consistent numbers. I think you need to realize that the Eagles are a great team, with a great defensive package. Steelers havent won there since World War 2, and Ben has always had trouble with them in the regular season and the preseason. I think you need to realize that the wind was blowing 30 mph during the Cleveland game, and according to Ben it was the worst weather he has ever played in, and keep in my mind he played in a hurricane (literally) and a mud pit last year (both against Miami). I think you also need to realize that the Steelers have one of the best defenses in the league right now, speaking of no playmakers. Woodley and Troy have played unbelievable this year. Im not gonna make any more excuses for Ben because hes gotten this bullshit his whole career, and people always talk shit on the Steelers no matter what. His play will talk for him and you shall see, this guy is a top 5 QB in the league.
Rest of the home games
Vs Ravens
Vs Giants
Vs Colts
Vs Chargers
vs Bengals
Vs Cowboys
vs Browns
Road schedule
@ JAgs
@ Bengals
@ Skins
@ Pats
@ Ravens
@ Titans
I see 3 games that we have left that I think we win with little doubt. We are gonna have a rough time this season, no doubt.
I think its incredible how underrated he is. So we had a weak schedule last year, does that really take away from it? We aren't the only ones with weak schedules last year, and only 2 other QB's were even close to him. Our whole division had the same schedule we did, why didn't Carson Palmer not even come close to his numbers. Why didnt Brett the idiot come close. You can easily say the Patriots had a weak schedule last year therefore that inflated Brady's numbers, but no one brings that up, and it shouldnt be brought up. All 32 teams in the NFL are competitive, this isnt college football. If after 4 years the jury is still out for you then this year should prove it to you, even though I dont think you even close to accurate on your portrayel of his shoulder bothering him or whatever, we have no playmakers etc.... And also about Willie Parkers, hes average, no one in their right mind will tell you otherwise and hes not gonna ever have consistent numbers. I think you need to realize that the Eagles are a great team, with a great defensive package. Steelers havent won there since World War 2, and Ben has always had trouble with them in the regular season and the preseason. I think you need to realize that the wind was blowing 30 mph during the Cleveland game, and according to Ben it was the worst weather he has ever played in, and keep in my mind he played in a hurricane (literally) and a mud pit last year (both against Miami). I think you also need to realize that the Steelers have one of the best defenses in the league right now, speaking of no playmakers. Woodley and Troy have played unbelievable this year. Im not gonna make any more excuses for Ben because hes gotten this bullshit his whole career, and people always talk shit on the Steelers no matter what. His play will talk for him and you shall see, this guy is a top 5 QB in the league.
Rest of the home games
Vs Ravens
Vs Giants
Vs Colts
Vs Chargers
vs Bengals
Vs Cowboys
vs Browns
Road schedule
@ JAgs
@ Bengals
@ Skins
@ Pats
@ Ravens
@ Titans
I see 3 games that we have left that I think we win with little doubt. We are gonna have a rough time this season, no doubt.
Win a championship
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
I agree with 100% on the assessment of Rothyberger. I agree with sportsnut, I have no personal hatred towards BIG BEN-
Big ben was blessed to be on a team with a great defense, good coaching, good running game good O line and good D coordinator-
Did Jay Cutler have this, Vince Young, Alex smith, Derek Anderson, Matt Leinart, ReX Grossman??
It is a well known fact that the key to beating Pitts and BIG BEN is to make him play fast. You send guys at him to keep him in the pocket and he cannot make the quick throws.
Ben is like a college QB, in that he eyeballs the receiver and has to set his feet and has no look offs at all. He is all about the talent around him.
Put Big Ben on Sanfran or Arizona or Denver, watch he would do nothing-
THe fact that he gets sacked 10 times a game is because they cannot run a quick offense cause he cannot deliver the ball, he holds the ball high and has a long release. His release is very unnatural and more of a sling shot throw-
Having said that Big BEN is a master of beating the weaker and avg teams, he kills those teams--
He cannot beat a good attacking defense- He has the best rating out of the pocket because thats all he can do, is scramble because he is so strong and throw on the run-
Give Pitts any of the younger QB's Cutler, Leinart, they will be better than they are with BIG BEN, i can guarantee you that.
Big BEN fell into the most ideal situation ever by playing for pitts-
BIg BEN has hardly ever won a game by himself, how many shootouts has Big ben won? He is a system player and is a good fit for teams, however once the D coordinators figure you out, you must learn to throw, he is too much of a scrambler
Big ben was blessed to be on a team with a great defense, good coaching, good running game good O line and good D coordinator-
Did Jay Cutler have this, Vince Young, Alex smith, Derek Anderson, Matt Leinart, ReX Grossman??
It is a well known fact that the key to beating Pitts and BIG BEN is to make him play fast. You send guys at him to keep him in the pocket and he cannot make the quick throws.
Ben is like a college QB, in that he eyeballs the receiver and has to set his feet and has no look offs at all. He is all about the talent around him.
Put Big Ben on Sanfran or Arizona or Denver, watch he would do nothing-
THe fact that he gets sacked 10 times a game is because they cannot run a quick offense cause he cannot deliver the ball, he holds the ball high and has a long release. His release is very unnatural and more of a sling shot throw-
Having said that Big BEN is a master of beating the weaker and avg teams, he kills those teams--
He cannot beat a good attacking defense- He has the best rating out of the pocket because thats all he can do, is scramble because he is so strong and throw on the run-
Give Pitts any of the younger QB's Cutler, Leinart, they will be better than they are with BIG BEN, i can guarantee you that.
Big BEN fell into the most ideal situation ever by playing for pitts-
BIg BEN has hardly ever won a game by himself, how many shootouts has Big ben won? He is a system player and is a good fit for teams, however once the D coordinators figure you out, you must learn to throw, he is too much of a scrambler
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
WHen a cellar dwellar plays a good team on national tv take the over it will cash-
The NFL is in dissarray, the lack of talent is evident on the kickoffs- by pooch kicking it teams are conceeding the 35 yard line for the other team to start.
Games are going over easily because some teams get 1 td off punt or kickoff returns.
The NFL is in dissarray, the lack of talent is evident on the kickoffs- by pooch kicking it teams are conceeding the 35 yard line for the other team to start.
Games are going over easily because some teams get 1 td off punt or kickoff returns.
3rd & Long
Tom Brady is a douchebag
Jay Cutler & Philip Rivers have joined the elite of the league.
spanishshark
Youngest guy on the forum
i hate you.
Just messing with you. Miami is better now but they still suck. It's gonna take a while.:shake:
MusicCityGambler
Chill Winstonnn!
How is it sad? I think it is exciting that new teams are in the mix. The Titans have benefitted from catching teams at the right time but defense wins games and I think they belong in the top 5 simply because there aren't four teams better than they are.
MusicCityGambler
Chill Winstonnn!
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
There QB is named Thigpen and it aint Bobby
As a White Sox fan, I appreciate this reference.
As a White Sox fan, I appreciate this reference.
xxDaJackaLxx
Speaker for the Dead
I learned that all three Sunday night games have gone UNDER the total and all three Monday night games have gone OVER the total.
(Thanks Dizzle)
(Thanks Dizzle)
xxDaJackaLxx
Speaker for the Dead
:36_11_6::36_11_6: :shake:
AG ,
After thinking about it you may be right in some terms. I think maybe in some ways though because will he is somewhat local I am very aware of how he plays and what he has done. I also have alot of respect for him as a player and do think he is clearly one of the better QB's in the league .
More of my negative comments towards him are based on the past 2 games . Well really this season because game 1 is exactly the type game which pads his stats IMO. Pitt is a great fight for him because they play solid defense year in year out and have a nice home field edge . So that defense tends to put him in alot of situations to suceed IMO. We agree that he is very good on the move and out of the pocket so when is that most deadly ? When you have shorter fields to work with , right ? So he is just a great fit for a team like PITT IMO . Give Pitt good starting field position and they will cash in on it . For my own curiosity when I get a moment I would like to like at some old game logs and see if my "theory" holds any water stastically.
So I am a fan of Big Ben and I guess nationwide he could be underrated since under Cowher / Wisenhunt they were definetly a pound the ball type team . I am sure you know better then I but from a far even I recall how Pitt would literallt build a big lead by halftime or early 3rd quarter and basically just run the ball into the ground the entire way . Which obviously you need a good OL which they always had and a good power runner which they basically always had but havent since Jerome Bettis retired .
You are correct about "punishing" him for playing a weak schedule . He didnt chose it and he certainly didnt assist in the injuries these teams suffered . My point is I am a big consistency guy ( one thing regardless of sport that I look for is sort of "mean" results rather then players result on avg or measured by stats) . There is alot to be said for consistency in my book . I am not exactly saying he was inconsistent but he was sort of getting to much production (extremes) in a few games . As I said 19Tds against 2 Ints is great in 5 games its absurd actually but I just like to ask why it happened . Especially since 10 other games he produced a more medicore 13TDto 9 INT stat line in 10 games . Alot IMO had to do with weak opponents and absence of running a game forcing them to throw more in the red zone IMO. Again is that his fault since he executed at a high level ? No , I am just saying that type of situational play but not be there for Pitt in 2008 as they play better defenses , have a better ground game , have a worse OL , Have a sore armed QB and in general just might be playing talent. To me great talent rises about situational play . It doesnt matter if they have good situational aspects or are totally fucked by the situation they are playing under . I dont see Big Ben as a QB who is able to overcome the negative situations . He doesnt have to do entirely but just rise about the reasonable expectations put forth for him in that game. In baseball a great way I use that mentality is I look for teams in great situational spots that most people dont realize and usually make a play. Now if my play loses and is incorrect OR even if it wins but sort of does by the skin of its teeth then I see it as HUGE NEGATIVE and tend to reverse course and fade them. Its sort of like picking up a tell in poker . Hard to explain in depth without writing a novel so try and jsut understand what I am saying . In Big Ben's case I think even I had unrealistic expectations of how they would play @ Philly but I also think he showed much worse then expected . Now the difference in the rationalization here is simply expectations were in incorrect . So while he played poorly then I am guessing but he will have to low expectations for his next start . With the unknown factor being his arm / health . If he is healthy then I think he bounces back but I am not sure he is . Back to the guy with an arm problem throwing bullets comment I made . Usually thats a guytrying to prove he is healthy more then not feeling any hinderance .
As for as other QBs I absolutely 100000000% agree . I have often said that the only reason NE offense did what it did last year was because iot routinely matched up against the sisters of the poor defenses and teams in general. NE is the excellence of execution so they were fundamentally sound on defense and also kept fresher by there offense being unstoppable. Something I have come to realize is going to be an issue moving forward until the NE OL gets it act together . Brady got huge amounts of time to check off all his recievers last year and Cassel the last 2 games has no time . I understand teams will blitz the hell out of him more then Brady because of who Brady is and the reads he make quick and deliver but its not fair to judge Cassel when he is not getting help to succeed IMO . Anyway so agree with Palmer and Favre . As we have witnessed Favre 's weakness is quite obvious he to often tries to make things happen and when his team needs a sprk he to often forces a pass and throws an INT . Its really why he INT rates starting spiking the past 5 years . When did Favre have his resurgence ??? When the talent around him got better . They for a few years had basically 1 WR in Donald Driver but last year Greg Jennings really emerged and even James Jones provided a sprk. He always had some sort of TE to throw to in GB but now he had 4 options in the passing game instead of 2 . In the NFL must teams have one very solid CB who can eliminate or shadow a teams best WR especially if thats the teams ONLY threat . Also GB OL got better last year after some health issues in previous seasons and young players coming of age . They finally meshed which NYJ has to do adding 2 FA's . I think what always wow's US about Brett Favre was his arm strength and his ability to turn a busted play into abig play . As for Carson Palmer he really came into the league with a reputation and again the strong arm. These guys get alot of highlight time for throwing long TD passes . Palmer hasnt done much the past few years but the injured knee could have played a role as well in fairness . Also though his OL was very solid in his 1st few years and slowly regressed . So he maybe lost mobility and quickness but worse is his OL went downhill pretty drastically . Also Cincy was a team with 3 talented WRs that when Henry started fucking up really hurt them because they went from a guy who could be starting and possible ALL Pro on the league as there #3 WR to a player who was probably not even an NFL # 3 WR talent. The list of bengals in that role is scary . They never really had a TE and Rudi was to inconsistent on the ground he sort of slowly faded season to season as the OL weakened . His stats didnt but he was great at the end of the year really putting up a few moster games to get his stats up to par .
So whats the lesson ? QBs need talent surrounding to the succeed and the need solid OL play. Sounds obvious and simple but how many very good QBs play on losing teams ? Statisically probably none or 1 . Even guys who pile up some numbers due to being on a losing team usually have INT totals because teams know they are gonna pass and the QBs tend to force balls on bad teams.
As far as Pitt I think yo have to realize I am talking about what they look like today . Not so much what they are in general . The problem is with Pittsburgh being solid and having some expectations the general belief is usally they will bounce back next game or soon even though they havent shown any glimpses of improvement or that they will bounce back in the near future . Just like the Jets I said what progress did they show from Miami to NE game ? None really . Some here had these plausiable rationalizations but really IMO stretches of why the Jets would play well vs SD . Like Favre on MNF . Which I countered with he was 1-5 L3 seasons on MNF beating Denver in OT last year . Then it was Favre as a big dog . Okay he was 7+ pts or better 3 times past 2 years and he was 0-3 and 0-2-1 against the spread . So thats what I am getting at with Pitt in a sense . They probably like the Jets are going to figure it out and get it together in the near future but they need to play a game regardless of winning or losing where they showimprovement and sort of exceed what should be lower expectations.
As far as Pitts offense . To me there is a different bewteen talent and playmakers . There are alot of talented guys in the NFL but there are few real playmakers . Its like a guy in the NBA who avgs 20pts a game or in the ML who hits 40+ Hrs . Just because you can attain those levels doesnt make you a very good player its just makes you a nice fantasy player . Its more then a stat or talent to be a key player IMO . They have quality players on offense but Pitt needs to have everything in sync for it to look good . They dont open the field enough throwing the ball deep . Rarely do we see Pitt throw 4 or 5 balls deep down the field to open it . Now in the past Holmes has definetly made some big plays and even Nate Washington at times . Ward is slowly just becoming a possesson type WR last year his longest reception was 25 yards . This year I think in 3 games the Steelers have 2 pass plays above 30 yards (31 and 48) . TWO !! Okay they have a 29yd reception as well but they also have just 4 pass plays above 20 yards !!!!
I know your gonna say its the OL but I am sorry at some point you have to make an adjustment . Big Ben is just to slow with the ball at the moment ( and I see him as being heavy footed when tryin to avoid a pass rush which is wh he takes alot of sacks . He is strong as fuck and has been known to shake a defender off him but right now he doesnt look that way to me ) and maybe WRs are contributing with drops but from what I saw vs Philly and even Cle at times is his accuracy was clearly off . Leftwich came in and what I liked was he delivering the ball right to the middle of the receivers chest . Like Favre did on many occassions throw it so hard at there chest they had no choice but to catch it . So this offense has been pitiful IMO through the air and the worse is they clearly got worse as they faced better defenses . Even vs Houston they had 330 yards of offense but did have that great field position which I said was something Pitt tended to excel at .
I am not saying Willie Parker is an ALL PRO but he is better then avg IMO and better then the avg RB in the league . He is "Fast" Willie Parker so they need to get him to the edges more where he speed can kill . Not trying to pound him through the tackles he isnt gonna succeed when your OL is struggling . Pretty simple IMO . I look at the AFC RBs and think Addai and LT clearly better but dont see any other fulltime starter who I see as upgrade . Guys like McFadden , Ronnie Brown and Jones Drew (really a change of pace back) could be better by seasons end ...and I am not rating McFadden high yet because KC doesnt count for anyone) ....So will the guy isnt great I think you severly underrate him . Would you rather have Thomas Jones , Jamal Lewis , Fred Taylor , or even Marshawn Lynch. I definetly wouldnt for 2008. Lynch gets alot of credit but he had 100yds 3 x last year and none so far in 2008 . In only 4 games did he avg 4.0YPC and he had 20 carries 9 times last year and 18 or 19 in the other 4 games. Worse is the games he did get 100+ yds Bengals at home (see there LB woes in 2007) , Miami enuff said and @ Philly last game of the year...So just 3 career 100 yd games and he had 20+ carries 10 times and 18 or 19 in the other 6 games . So full season 340 carries 1340 yds and 3.9 YPC and few 20+ yd carries ...While Fast Willie had 130 something and 105 in his 1st 2 games granted alot of carries at Cle but think his last 10 or so really were flat yardage wise bringing down his avg YPC. Last year Willie had 100+ yds 8 times and avg 4.0 YPC or more in 8 of them .
I disagree with Philly being a great team . I think its debatable though what they are . They were terrible @ Dallas on defense and I mean terrible they had 1 stop the whole game . So were they in bounce back mode after a poor effort or siomply facing a boring Pitt offense that was not going to be able to move the ball vs any quality defense ? IMO its more about being a vanilla offense and facing a solid defense that was going to make them work . Phillys defense has alot of potential but 2 games that were to be weighed they failed badly @ Dallas and played extremely well vs Pitt . Was it home -away dynamics ? Was it Dallas offense simply being to good ? Om some level - YES . Was it Pitts offense just not scaring anyone - On some level IMO- YES...
Philly could and probably should be a very good defense but time will tell as they face better offenses IMO.
Know I have to call BS on Big Ben and the weather . I clearly remember one of his first starts down in Miami during the Hurricane few years back . Pitt was small favs that day I believe and it was an ugly game like 12-3 Steelers win off the top of my head . No way was that CLE game any worse . No way . The ball was really not affected on passes under 20 yards from what I recall. In fact how did CLE 3 straight times drive then length of the field ??? 3 times well out of 4 drives from the last one in the 1st H till the end of the game ....only 6 pts though ... 14 plays for 71 yds , 12 plays for 67 yards and 14 plays for 60 yds . Sure slow grinding drives but worst weather ever ? Dont buy it . Were talking CLE here the team who wants to bench DA and who also doesnt have any playmakers at the moment as Edwards is playing terrible and still mention the TD he dropped vs Dallas that changed that game and Winslow is lunatic but also a fool because he whines about getting the ball and repeatedly drops easy passes . Which by the way those final 4 drives for CLE DA was 16-20 153 yds ...so it seemed to die down alot after the 1st Q from what I recall . Not to mention his kicker also blasted a 48yd FG in tha terrible weather ......
You are right they have a challenging schedule and while I might agree that Big Ben is possible a Top 10-12 QB dont think I can agree with Top 5 but do see him in the Top 3rd of the league in QBs ....
Thats what see from a far . Some is probably incorrect but some is also probably relevant ....and I have no doubt about the defense being solid but again what tests have they had ?? Its very solid but not elite IMO .....
:cheers:
Its great that new teams are in the mix but its more because of the drop in play then specific teams inproved play .
Tenny has a great defense . Probably top 5 but clearly one of the better units in the league . I disagree that there are not 4 teams better then when there best win is close home win vs a down Jags team . They didnt much @ Cincy getting a last minute punt block fo r 6 to make it 24-7 .
I dont see how Tenny is really even amongst the top 10 teams in the league . Again by problem is identifying the good teams and few come to mind . Could Tenny score enough to beat DENVER on a neutral field ? Would not rate Tenny ahead of Minnesota who wil beat them this week . Not even sure Tenny is as good as Wash certainly take Philly ahead of them ......
Hard to argue with fans but nice start but being inept teams who cant take advantage of good situations is hardly enoug for me to drool over anyone . Same deal as I have siad the NFL will be like MLB with no great teams and home field weighing heavily outcomes .....Houston 's HC should be embarrassed by his decision making passes up a FG down 24 -12 and understandable it puts them in no mans land but its only mid 3 quarter . Early on credit the Tenny defense for twice holding them to FGs when they were inside the opp 15 and 10 yd lines . What was the idiot doing going for two in teh 2nd Quarter though ?? That 1 point change dthe ENTIRE game . It would have been 24-13 when they elected to go for it and he could taken the FG to make it 24-16 . Then they next they had 2nd and goal at the 1 they passed twice and ran on 4th down . Why not run it 2nd down or have a QB keeper and try and push forward ??? Instead your relying on an INT prone QB vsa very good defense who is going to AJ out of the equation and leave you with Owen Daniels or Kevin Walters as your go to guys ???
Just terrible play calling as Houston had 5 chances at TDS ....FIVE !
Ball on the Tenny 14 after an INT and backwards guy runs it on 1st down ! With Chris Taylor no less and they lose 2 yards ....pretty obvious your gonna pass now . Of course INC then a sack on 3rd and long .....FG only ...
NExt possession after a HUGE Slaton run they wind up 1st goal at the 4 . On 1st down just going by the play by play but it says Schaub ran it up the middle ? Did he really try a QB draw or any type of running play or was it a busted play ?? Could have been busted but that was the time to hand the ball off ! Anyway 2nd and goal from teh 6th guess what INC and INC...FG ....
3rd time is a charm they finally score a TD ! Which BTW Slaton on 2nd and goal from teh 6 found the end zone ! So it worked giving it to Slaton !! tries for 2 pts !! What a joke ! Dudes playing for a TIE in the middle of the 2nd quarter !!!!! To which Tenny scored next possession ..
For as good as a 1st H as Slaton had the texans gave him the ball like 6 times after the HALF!!!
Sorry any half intelligent Coach or OC could have won that game given the opportunities they had . Sure in the end who to say HOUSTON defense would have made stops but the Texans had a legit chance to put up at least 24 pts and probably even 28 points .....a good team/offense would have scored 30+ ...
I am bitter because I had the Texans team over 17.5 and they fucked up with the 2 PT conversion as worst case they could have had 19 pts and I did lose some Houston because I thought they had a chance to win SU and they sort of did deapite the final . Bottomline is Tenny playsgood sound football and you cant not make the most of your chances .........
:shake:
Agree with some disagree with some. Ill try to answer and adress everything
I personally think that taking advantage of things like short feild position is something that makes him a good qaurterback. Last year the defense did not look this good, in fact at times they looked horrible. A ton of injuries starting with Polamalu, Aaron Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Clark really crippled this team on defense. When Bill Cowher was there, this was not the same team. Pittsburgh built a lead, and literally they would not throw the ball one time at half time. There were times the Ben only had 14-16 throws a game and they won. I do agree, that his best times are on the run, but I think this severely contradicts the fact that he is heavy footed. When Ben came out of college he was a good QB, but he was known for running also. I remember his first start, in 10th grade, I was sitting there saying with some friends and adults that we wanted to see him run, he was known for running. Check the scouting report if you dont believe me.
Also when it comes to weak schedules, good QB's and good teams win games that they are supposed to win. (Other then the Jets
).
I personally was not expecting him to play well against the Eagles, I personally expected us to lose as a matter of fact.
One thing I will say about him not playing well in big games. Maybe in the regular season. Maybe. But the guy has two bad games in his playoff career off the top of my head. The first being his first year in the AFC championship agaisnt the Pats. The second being the Superbowl which we won anyway. On the way to the AFC Championship game, he played like he was supposed to. On the way to the superbowl he beat the best teams in the AFC to get there. The Bengals, The Colts and The Bronco's. Amazing games on all fronts. 2006 was a throw away year because of hte accident. Then last year, we lost to the Jags in the playoffs but that wasnt really his fault, our defense played terrible and looked like swiss cheese. He got the team that lead they had before Gerrard broke off a 30 yard run or so on 4th down.
We clearly have a difference in what we consider a playmaker. Hines Ward in my mind is a play maker. He has come up clutch, time after time. He has brought that big block that led to that big td time after time. In essence I think a lot of people feel that Hines Ward is the team. When you talk about the guy in the NBA that averages 20 points and isnt a great player. I think it works the same way. Ill compare Hines Ward in this case to Ben Wallace of the Pistons days. He did what he was supposed to. He helped the team with the rebounds. He scored when he was called upon. Hines Ward makes the big block when hes supposed to and he will make the big catch when hes supposed to. If the game is on the line, hes there.
The reason Leftwich was able to throw the ball like he wanted to is because they didnt blitz him. They blitzed him twice, and both teams, he was fucked. Ben's accuracy was not off in the Cleveland game, I think you need to look at that game again. Philly? Yes. But there were a ton of drops in the Cleveland game and I honestly think he was right on the money the entire game. Pass to Willie Parker for example. Easy TD. Fell right through his hands. God forbid Byron Leftwich is our starting QB, ever.
About Willie Parker, I do think hes average, and youve made my point for me. He gets big yards, in small games. He has never come up big when it matter. Unlike the Bill Cowher days, we cant run the clock out anymore. The reason we didnt throw with him is because Jerome Bettis was garunteed to get the 1st down when it was needed. We could run off 10 minutes on one drive, cant do that with Willie Parker. And if you watch. Willie Parker always tries to get the corner, and a lot of the times, he doesnt get it. Honestly? Yes, I would rather have Marshawn Lynch or Ronnie Brown. Steelers need a big back, and I suppose thats why they drafted Mendenhall.
I personally think that taking advantage of things like short feild position is something that makes him a good qaurterback. Last year the defense did not look this good, in fact at times they looked horrible. A ton of injuries starting with Polamalu, Aaron Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Clark really crippled this team on defense. When Bill Cowher was there, this was not the same team. Pittsburgh built a lead, and literally they would not throw the ball one time at half time. There were times the Ben only had 14-16 throws a game and they won. I do agree, that his best times are on the run, but I think this severely contradicts the fact that he is heavy footed. When Ben came out of college he was a good QB, but he was known for running also. I remember his first start, in 10th grade, I was sitting there saying with some friends and adults that we wanted to see him run, he was known for running. Check the scouting report if you dont believe me.
Also when it comes to weak schedules, good QB's and good teams win games that they are supposed to win. (Other then the Jets
).I personally was not expecting him to play well against the Eagles, I personally expected us to lose as a matter of fact.
One thing I will say about him not playing well in big games. Maybe in the regular season. Maybe. But the guy has two bad games in his playoff career off the top of my head. The first being his first year in the AFC championship agaisnt the Pats. The second being the Superbowl which we won anyway. On the way to the AFC Championship game, he played like he was supposed to. On the way to the superbowl he beat the best teams in the AFC to get there. The Bengals, The Colts and The Bronco's. Amazing games on all fronts. 2006 was a throw away year because of hte accident. Then last year, we lost to the Jags in the playoffs but that wasnt really his fault, our defense played terrible and looked like swiss cheese. He got the team that lead they had before Gerrard broke off a 30 yard run or so on 4th down.
We clearly have a difference in what we consider a playmaker. Hines Ward in my mind is a play maker. He has come up clutch, time after time. He has brought that big block that led to that big td time after time. In essence I think a lot of people feel that Hines Ward is the team. When you talk about the guy in the NBA that averages 20 points and isnt a great player. I think it works the same way. Ill compare Hines Ward in this case to Ben Wallace of the Pistons days. He did what he was supposed to. He helped the team with the rebounds. He scored when he was called upon. Hines Ward makes the big block when hes supposed to and he will make the big catch when hes supposed to. If the game is on the line, hes there.
The reason Leftwich was able to throw the ball like he wanted to is because they didnt blitz him. They blitzed him twice, and both teams, he was fucked. Ben's accuracy was not off in the Cleveland game, I think you need to look at that game again. Philly? Yes. But there were a ton of drops in the Cleveland game and I honestly think he was right on the money the entire game. Pass to Willie Parker for example. Easy TD. Fell right through his hands. God forbid Byron Leftwich is our starting QB, ever.
About Willie Parker, I do think hes average, and youve made my point for me. He gets big yards, in small games. He has never come up big when it matter. Unlike the Bill Cowher days, we cant run the clock out anymore. The reason we didnt throw with him is because Jerome Bettis was garunteed to get the 1st down when it was needed. We could run off 10 minutes on one drive, cant do that with Willie Parker. And if you watch. Willie Parker always tries to get the corner, and a lot of the times, he doesnt get it. Honestly? Yes, I would rather have Marshawn Lynch or Ronnie Brown. Steelers need a big back, and I suppose thats why they drafted Mendenhall.
Your post is too long for me to answer anymore but I think ive made my point anyway. Minor correction, the hurricane game was his first start ever. I dont know why he said the Cleveland game was the toughest weather hes ever experienced, but im just saying what he said
Good stuff bro. its long as hell I know...
Anyway with Big Ben's mobility think I am having trouble find the right word . Its more that when he drops back and gets rushed he does seem to be heavy footed and poor at eluding the rush . I remember alot of times where 1 defender got in the backfield and tried to sack him and him took there best shot and brushed them aside like a nat . I just think he needs a few steps to get going is what I am trying to say which makes sense because he is a big dude..So when he drops start back that hinders his mobility because for him to turn and run outside takes a few seconds and usually he doesnt have it . So I dont mean to imply he is slow and heavy footed might be the wrong word . Just trying to clarify .
As far as Pitts D in 07 no doubt I agree with your comments . They werent very good all around but still feel if we research it what will stick out is good field position and much higher % throws in the red zone . As I said and your reiterated the Steelers always used to just pound the rock when they had a lead and there really were a ton of games where they did nothing in the passing attack....
I think we do disagree on the term playmaker . Ward is a fundamental sound player who will do things that go unnoticed sort of like Keyshawn Johnson was . My definition of playmaker is doing something unexpected at a crucial time . Guy catches a tough pass like Greg Jennings did bewteen Vikings defender in the 2nd quarter , Felix Jones getting a handoff and taking outside and to the house , Darren Sproles catching a simple screen and taking it 60yds to the house , a RB bouncing off a tackle or two and getting 10 extra yards like a Marion Barber . randy Moss or TO breaking past a DB throwing there hands up to signal thro the ball and beating the defenderfor a huge pass play ....and on and on ...
Anyway with Big Ben's mobility think I am having trouble find the right word . Its more that when he drops back and gets rushed he does seem to be heavy footed and poor at eluding the rush . I remember alot of times where 1 defender got in the backfield and tried to sack him and him took there best shot and brushed them aside like a nat . I just think he needs a few steps to get going is what I am trying to say which makes sense because he is a big dude..So when he drops start back that hinders his mobility because for him to turn and run outside takes a few seconds and usually he doesnt have it . So I dont mean to imply he is slow and heavy footed might be the wrong word . Just trying to clarify .
As far as Pitts D in 07 no doubt I agree with your comments . They werent very good all around but still feel if we research it what will stick out is good field position and much higher % throws in the red zone . As I said and your reiterated the Steelers always used to just pound the rock when they had a lead and there really were a ton of games where they did nothing in the passing attack....
I think we do disagree on the term playmaker . Ward is a fundamental sound player who will do things that go unnoticed sort of like Keyshawn Johnson was . My definition of playmaker is doing something unexpected at a crucial time . Guy catches a tough pass like Greg Jennings did bewteen Vikings defender in the 2nd quarter , Felix Jones getting a handoff and taking outside and to the house , Darren Sproles catching a simple screen and taking it 60yds to the house , a RB bouncing off a tackle or two and getting 10 extra yards like a Marion Barber . randy Moss or TO breaking past a DB throwing there hands up to signal thro the ball and beating the defenderfor a huge pass play ....and on and on ...
ISU74
Pretty much a regular
Guys I think Denver is not a good 3-0 team and very well could be 3-3 after the next 3 games.
@KC this week. Denver taking this D on the road with a one dimensonal offense against a divisional opponent is setting up a KC SU win. LJ averaged 5 ypc last week against the Falcons.
Next two weeks, at home against Tampa and Jacksonville. These teams can stop Denver but can Denver stop anybody?
I will be taking the points this week with KC. Simply too many pts on the road with a suspect D and lack of a dominant run attack.
@KC this week. Denver taking this D on the road with a one dimensonal offense against a divisional opponent is setting up a KC SU win. LJ averaged 5 ypc last week against the Falcons.
Next two weeks, at home against Tampa and Jacksonville. These teams can stop Denver but can Denver stop anybody?
I will be taking the points this week with KC. Simply too many pts on the road with a suspect D and lack of a dominant run attack.
Agree Denver is not very good in the sense of being 3-0 .
Stopping there offense is gonna be a headache but they are stealing a page from there Nuggets . Just outscore the opponent !! Oak had some shots early but fell to pieces and the Russell fumble early was killer . SD stormed back and should have won and NO was a failed 2 pt conversion away from tying and then later a Automatica missed FG away from the win ...
KC is a play I like . The Cheifs offense found its way in the 2nd H and hopefully that continues but need to research more . They hopefully have some optimism now and playing a 3-0 team helps especially when its an old rival foe ....
I'll probably be taking that +10 ......
Think Minnesota is the clear definite play I am on ...texans and KC very close to definite plays ...
TB , Cincy , Jets , SD , Wash are possibilties:shake:
ISU74
Pretty much a regular
I am leaning texans too, they have a history of playing Jac tough in Fla. Knocked me out of a survivor pool a few years back as a matter of fact.
I also like SF at NO. SF can D up and NO cant. No Colston will make the job easier for a secondary that is very good to begin with. Patten still out?
MusicCityGambler
Chill Winstonnn!
I'm not trying to be a homer Nut. I just don't see four teams that are clearly better.The Titans aren't going to impress you, they're just going to lull you to sleep and win the game. Great defense, good kicking game and great coaching. I think Dallas is better but that's the only team I can say with any conviction. There are probably six other teams whereyou could make a credible case. Titans not in the top 10? Crazy talk at this moment.If you put the Titans in 'insert high profile sexy popular teams' uniform, they'd be in everyone's top 5. Nashville doesn't sell and defensive football doesn't sell.
I agree that Houston left a lot of points on the field and the score was misleading. I'm not sure any coach could have won for Houston, some sure but not any. I think any coach would have had a much closer final score. The Titans shut it down offensively in the second half because they were up by more than two possesions. They were content to run dive plays and kill clock. I don't read much into the result because it's a division opponent and the Texans did as good against the Titan D as anyone else in 2007. Slaton was also getting stuffed in the second half, adjustments were made and the Texans were trailing.
I don't think the Vikings beat the Titans. I think the line is nearly dead on.Both teams have great defensive lines and should be able to contain the opposing running games. The Titans are better on the O-Line and the secondary.It wouldn't be a huge shocker if Minnesota won as the Vikings are a talented team.
The Titans have scored 17, 24 and 31 points. Seems fairly normal for the NFL. Could Denver stop the Titans? It's every bit as legit as the question you pose.Defense is part of the game too and the Broncos are worse on defense than the Titans are on offense.It's going to catch up with them later in the season if they continue giving up 30 a game.
If there was any lesson of the 2007 season, it was that it's better to have a great defense than an all-time historic offense in January.
MCG didnt mean to say you were homer but fans are basically in 2 groups excited about your team or down your on a team. I am sure I am the same way about NYY .
Problem with Tenny is I can only judge them vs who they played . Jags and Cincy teams are down and Houston just seems lost . I dont agree they shut down Slaton because he had just 6 carries the entire half . They killed his momentum and I am not saying he would be successful but the play calling was terrible. They did the opposite everytime of what they should have. I do agree Tenny coasted offensively in the 2nd H though. The only team that looks to be even remotely close to 500 is Jags and that was not impressive as that team is playing crappy IMO compared to recent seasons. I didnt mean to imply that Houston would have won but that bonehead 2pt conversion call changed the game..
Tenny offense just has a ways to go. I could name 10 stadiums I wonder if they would win in .
Hate to say it but VKings are my strongest play of the week. Tenny is a weaker version of Minny IMO ..:shake:
Problem with Tenny is I can only judge them vs who they played . Jags and Cincy teams are down and Houston just seems lost . I dont agree they shut down Slaton because he had just 6 carries the entire half . They killed his momentum and I am not saying he would be successful but the play calling was terrible. They did the opposite everytime of what they should have. I do agree Tenny coasted offensively in the 2nd H though. The only team that looks to be even remotely close to 500 is Jags and that was not impressive as that team is playing crappy IMO compared to recent seasons. I didnt mean to imply that Houston would have won but that bonehead 2pt conversion call changed the game..
Tenny offense just has a ways to go. I could name 10 stadiums I wonder if they would win in .
Hate to say it but VKings are my strongest play of the week. Tenny is a weaker version of Minny IMO ..:shake:
xxDaJackaLxx
Speaker for the Dead
Amen! :smiley_acbe:
