Western Conference Finals Discussion Thread

divol

The Spurs can suck my manhood
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[TD="colspan: 8"][h=4]NBA BASKETBALL BASKETBALL - SUN 5/19[/h][/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #000032, colspan: 4, align: center"]GAME[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000032, align: center"]HANDICAP[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000032, align: center"]MONEY LINE[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000032, align: center"]TOTAL POINTS[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000032, align: center"]MORE[/TD]
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[TD="class: linesDate, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]Sun 5/19[/TD]
[TD="class: linesRotNumBold, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]501[/TD]
[TD="class: linesTeam, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]Memphis Grizzlies[/TD]
[TD="class: linesScore, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"][/TD]
[TD="class: linesSpread, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]+5 1.926[/TD]
[TD="class: linesMLine, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"] 2.730[/TD]
[TD="class: linesTotals, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]Over 182.5 1.917[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]12:30 PM[/TD]
[TD="class: linesRotNumBold, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]502[/TD]
[TD="class: linesTeam, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]San Antonio Spurs[/TD]
[TD="class: linesScore, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"][/TD]
[TD="class: linesSpread, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]-5 1.980[/TD]
[TD="class: linesMLine, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"] 1.518[/TD]
[TD="class: linesTotals, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"]Under 182.5 1.990[/TD]
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Since we have two series left, thought it would be a good idea to just make a separate discussion thread for each and not per game.
 
I think that Splitter may be the key in this series. Can't see Pop going small by choice against Memphis, so he will need Splitter to do the job on defense and of course, do what he does on offense, otherwise, he will have to find solutions...

Same goes for Prince in Memphis (and Allen). No Durant/ LeBron to guard. They will have to earn their paychecks on offense.
Memphis has much more limited fire power, so if those two won't show up on offense, Memphis will need to step up huge on defense to have a shot here.

Teams met 4 times this season. One game ended by 2 points win and two more went to OT, so really tight series it should be.

Memphis won the Spurs in the playoffs two years back and Spurs swept Memphis in regular season the year after that as a payback.

This season they are 2 - 2 but could have easily ended any other way...
 
I wonder what are the odds on Pacers - Grizzlies Finals. I think there about 30% for such a Finals and the odds should be huge for something like that...

Though it's important to remember that this is uneven year (2013) - so it should be Spurs year... :)
 
Some great props on 5D on the game/series

Game 1 total points between 171-180 +280 and 181-190 +255 seem worth a bite.

As for series price, I took Memphis in 6 +400 and Spurs in 7 +325.

Splitter is much better now than he was in 2011 his first postseason when he had little impact and Pop has faith in him. Ginobili is relatively healthy this time around where as 2 years ago he was playing with a fractured elbow. Biggest fear is seeing Tony Allen make Tony Parker disappear.

My prediction is Spurs in 7 in a throwback series that is going to be ugly. Lack of 3 point shooting by the Grizz will allow Green and Leonard to take a step back and give a helping hand on Gasol and Z-Bo. Ellington is a guy they could really have used so Memphis needs Poindexter to step up and give a presence from 3. Two years ago Battier and Mayo killed the Spurs going 14-33 42.4% from 3's and not sure if Memphis can replicate that.

If you had told me before game 6 in Oakland that Parker would shoot 3-16 while Duncan wouldn't play the last 4 minutes I would have assumed the Spurs had lost by 20. Instead my man crush Kawhi Leonard hit the Bruce Bowen corner 3 at the 2 minute mark to seal the win. Most importantly, I think Pop has finally given up on forcing Matt Bonner into significant minutes, he played 7 minutes or less the last 4 games of the GS series.
 
GRIZZLIES VS. SPURS, 3:30 P.M. ET
TV: ABC


Though bigger bodies have shown to work well in defensive assignments against Tony Parker, that’s not how the Grizzlies will start. Memphis coach Lionel Hollins said Tony Allen will start the game guarding Spurs off guard Danny Green. “We’re just going to play straight up,” Hollis said. “I don’t know how long it will last. Sometimes things change on their own.” That would put Mike Conley on Parker.
Tayshaun Prince and Marc Gasol have continued to play for Memphis in the playoffs despite nagging injuries. Each will start despite Gasol’s lingering abdominal tear and Prince’s back problems. Both teams are reporting no injuries that would cause anyone to miss time.
The teams split four games this season, but that’s not a good gauge because Memphis played some of those games starting the since-traded Rudy Yag and the Spurs had Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili on the inactive list for a game. “I think we’re real familiar with each other, but I think none of the games (this season) told very much,” Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. “They do what they do and we do what we do. That’s the way it is in the playoffs.”
For those who don’t remember, this is a rematch of the first-round series in 2011 that Memphis won 4-2 as an eighth seed over the top-seeded Spurs. The Grizzlies opened the series with a starting lineup that looks just like today’s with the exception of Sam Young on the perimeter, where Prince will start today. The only bench player from that team who remains is Darrell Arthur. The Spurs looked much different with Duncan and Parker starting alongside Antonio McDyess, George Hill and Richard Jefferson. Almost all of their bench players – DeJuan Blair, Matt Bonner, Ginobili, Green, Gary Neal and Tiago Splitter remain with the team.
 
Despite not shooting well, Ginobili was still +46 in plus/minus in the GS series.

Spurs averaged 15 turnovers a game in the regular season but have cut that to 11 a game in the postseason.

Cory Joseph has shot 18-34 in the postseason in 10 minutes a game.

Hoping Baynes was added to the roster for this series.
 
This guy, lol...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6WdonfdIvc4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
This guy, lol...

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6WdonfdIvc4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

What a maroon! Even in the most favourable scenario, the cumulative effect of what he is pointing out here is 2.5 to 3 pts. In most games it will be negligible.

Although I suppose anyone who can figure that out on their own is not the sort of person he is marketing to. But still...dumb on many levels.
 
Memphis offense just looks sad so far.
Their offense causes their defense to look bad, because when they play too fast and get too many bad shots, Spurs rebound and run like crazy and Memphis defense just doesn't have the time to come back in full...
 
What a maroon! Even in the most favourable scenario, the cumulative effect of what he is pointing out here is 2.5 to 3 pts. In most games it will be negligible.

I think you were going for 'moron' in this case. Unless the guy you're talking about has a dark brownish-red hue to his skin (maybe after being out in the sun?).
 
These refs have a HUGE over trend. They call so many fouls at critical junctures of the game. Refs sure do know how to manipulate games.
 
Was on Memphis +4.5 and Under 93.5 on the Spurs.
Feeling very lucky after tonight's game...
 
I wanted to take Memphis ATS in Game 3 for max stakes, but the line is set so high, it just doesn't make any sense.
4 of the 6 games between the two were really close and the only two that weren't close, SAS won in a blow out.
Memphis haven't won SAS by 6+ points this season yet.

On the other hand, bookies obviously trying their best to keep bettors of Memphis and that tells something as well.

As for the game itself, obviously the 4 days break helps Memphis a lot.
They are the ones that need to find the answers, not the Spurs, so 4 days are a lot of time to come up with few answers.

I can't agree with all those that think that Bayless and Poindexter are the solution. Bayless is a volume shooter that is one of the worst in Memphis percentage wise and haven't met a shot that he doesn't like.
He can shoot you out of the game, just as easily as he can lead in to a comeback.

I think that people missed one key point in Memphis comeback - half court offense.
They shouldn't try to run with SAS team. Spurs excel in transition offense and transition defense, while Memphis are best in half court offense and half court defense.
Most open three pointers by the Spurs, were in transition offense, when Memphis defense wasn't ready. Most of half court offense by the Spurs, was with a hand in the face.
The same for offense. Z-Bo is best digging in. Gasol excels in half court offense - he can dish a pass to a cutting player, he can score with hand in the face and play with his back to the basket.
They just don't need to run and shouldn't do it.

The other factor is TP. Parker was amazing in all four games against Memphis in SA. But in Memphis, he was very very mediocre at best and played below his averages as far as effectiveness goes.

If he plays like he did in SA, I doubt that Memphis can do much. But if he will play as he did in his previous visits to Memphis, Grizzlies should do the job and win both games, on the way to win the series.
 
I think that people missed one key point in Memphis comeback - half court offense.
They shouldn't try to run with SAS team.


Asinine for them to want to do anything other than play ugly, slow, shitty ball.
 
I thought 4.5 was the right number for game 3. I think the move to 5.5 was spurred by the Parker MRI. At 5.5 I feel the Spurs are the right side.

Memphis's game 2 comeback was flawed IMO. Many open misses by the Spurs really helped the comeback along. Spurs make a couple of those shots and there is no OT, and Memphis likely does not cover.
 
This true?

Can't ignore a 12-0 situation in today's SAN-MEM Game.
In ROUND 3, GAME 3 if EITHER TEAM LEADS 2-0 in the Series
the HOME TEAM = 12-0 ATS Since 2000.
So I have to lay the 5 with MEM tonight. More MLB later..... MAHALO!
 
3rd game of series, home with >2 day of rest against anyone but #1 seed: 13-1 su & ats...memphis -5.5
 
I think it's best to wait to bet live on this one.
Memphis many times start slow, so I would be suprised not to see Memphis to win for 1.75+ odds or Memphis -2 at some point of the game...

I do like Memphis to win the series for 5.00 odds for sure...
 
Game 3

Mike Conley Over 17.5 Pts -105

Conley needs to be more aggressive and I think he knows it. I expect him to get 8-10 FT attempts so I like this prop
 
<header> [h=1]Grizzlies practice: Adjustment disagreements; whither the press?[/h]By Matt Moore | NBA writer

<time class="storyDate" pubdate="" datetime="2013-05-23T22:22:51Z">May 23, 2013 6:22 pm ET</time>


</header> <figure>
05232013_parker_grizzlies.jpg
<figcaption>The Grizzlies want to attack Tony Parker more. But how? (USATSI)</figcaption> </figure>MEMPHIS, Tenn. -- You've disagreed with people you work with before, right? Someone you had to work on a project with in school, the co-worker you always go to lunch with but you have different visions for a project, the boss you respect but sometimes you don't see eye to eye with?
There's a little bit of that going on with the Memphis Grizzlies after Game 2 of the Western Conference finals against the San Antonio Spurs, it seems like.
None of the players are going to admit that, the coach isn't going to admit that, no front-office members have told me that on or off the record. And I don't consider it to be the kind of thing that indicates drama or that the Grizzlies are "cracking." Sometimes you just disagree with your co-workers. And there were indications on Thursday that there are some disagreements with Memphis about how to adjust headed into Saturday's Game 3, an absolute must-win for the Grizzlies.
To sum up:
Coach Lionel Hollins said the team talked about how Marc Gasol has to look for his own shot more; Gasol disagreed to the point he said he didn't understand what that phrase even meant.
Tony Allen said he should have been studying film on Tony Parker a lot more earlier than on Manu Ginobili and Danny Green. Allen also said he might have to take the initiative and guard Parker and, if that doesn't work out, "risk getting subbed."
Hollins even disagreed with himself. First, he said he had considered changing the starting lineup to try to give the team a way to jolt out of its early-game funks. He later said -- in the same answer, mind you -- there was no reason to change the lineup. So if there's no reason to change the lineup ... why was he considering it in the first place?
So, yeah. A little bit of disagreement.
Hollins was asked if Gasol looked for his shot enough in the first two games.
"No, he didn't, and we talked about that," he said. "We talked about picking up the pace, things to help us get better."
Gasol has averaged 12.1 shots per 36 minutes in playoff wins this postseason. He also averaged 12.1 shots per 36 minutes in playoff losses this postseason. He has literally shot at the same rate in wins as in losses. But the bigger issue, and Gasol has always maintained this, is that he's not the type of player to hoist a lot of shots just to hoist them.
"I'm not the kind of player to look for his own shot," Gasol said. "Look for his shot? I don't understand what that means. Be more aggressive, keep attacking the paint and go to the post more? Sure. But just taking shots? That doesn't sound right."
Gasol will always opt for making what he feels is the right play. But at some point, someone's got to put the ball in the basket for Memphis. And if all else fails, a less efficient Gasol might be better than a miserably inefficient play from one of the countless Grizzlies players to struggle offensively in this series.
Allen said that in the Grizzlies' mind, everything for San Antonio starts with Parker, who had 18 assists in Game 2 but none in the fourth quarter that featured a Grizzlies comeback.
"Instead of me watching film on Ginobili and Green, I should have started watching it on Parker earlier," Allen said.
When asked by a reporter if he had been tasked with guarding Parker more, Allen's answer revealed what he thinks of the situation.
"I haven't been told that, but I might have to take the initiative," he said. "If it's wrong, I take the risk of being subbed, though.
"As a wing player, every time I turn around, it's forcing me to help, it's forcing other guys to help, it's forcing the bigs to help. That's a big reason they're up."
Again, it genuinely didn't seem like any of the players were angry or upset with their coach or each other. You can often tell when that's the case. It seemed like the normal frustrations of a team down 2-0, trying to find answers on how to beat what is likely the most disciplined team in the league when it comes to execution. But with two days until Game 3, they had better figure out where they are and get in line, or they'll be arguing over where to vacation next.
-----
The full-court press is rarely ever used in the pros unlike in college, where it's used extensively. One, point guards in the NBA are so good with their handle and control, you're almost never going to force a turnover, which is almost always the reason that you employ a press. Two, after you fail to secure a turnover and the guard turns on the afternburners, you now have a five-on-four mini-break. There's just no discernible reason to do it.
But, very sneakily, teams have used a version of it in key situations in the past few years. The Mavericks did it in the 2011 Finals against the Miami Heat, particularly when LeBron James was running point. Miami turned around and used it some last year vs. the Thunder in the Finals.
And, in the Grizzlies' fourth quarter comeback vs. the Spurs to force overtime, where they eventually lost, Memphis brought it out a little bit.
The key with the NBA press is that you're not trapping; it's usually just one player, and you're not trying to steal the ball. All you're doing is annoying him. It's just making him work, just a little bit more. The real objective isn't about what it does to the other player, though. It's that it changes how long it takes for the offensive point guard to get the team into its sets.
Parker has been an absolute speed demon in the first two games. It's not transition, fast-break buckets just attacking the rim. It's that he's getting the ball up the floor and constantly into the Spurs' sets with 17-20 seconds on the clock. This means: a) the Grizzlies' defense isn't set; and b) the Spurs' high-execution offense is able to work for its second, sometimes third and fourth options in a set. That plays right into San Antonio's hands.
In Game 2, the Grizzlies began applying more and more pressure on Parker, and it wore him down, just due to the exhaustion of the game. It comes with risks, namely picking up fouls and the possibility of the aforementioned defensive breakdowns in 5-on-4 play. But on Thursday, the Grizzlies' guards were open to the idea of employing it more.
"We'd like to put a little more pressure on him," Mike Conley said after practice, "when he's bringing the ball up the court so he's not getting a head of steam. Because he's so good full speed."
"Parker is amazing in transition," Allen said, marveling at the All-Star's play. "His speed, his speed, his speed puts a lot of pressure on the defense. We gotta get to it fast."
So, what about the pressure that the Grizzlies brought in Game 2?
"We was desperate at that time. Down 18, you'll try it. You'll try everything."
So, does Memphis need to go to it more in Game 3?
"We need to bring it early on at Game 3. We need to bring that desperation at tipoff."
Parker has been downright surgical in this series, a phrase that, oddly enough, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich used to describe Conley before Game 1. The risk is obvious if Parker slips past the pressure. But at some point, the Grizzlies have to throw the kitchen sink to try to slow Parker. Because the slow bleed has only lead them to a 2-0 deficit.
 
SPURS AT GRIZZLIES, 9 P.M. ET
TV: ABC


Even though San Antonio is off to a 2-0 start in their Western Conference finals matchup against Memphis, coach Gregg Popovich said there is still room for improvement. And that’s what the Spurs have been working on during the three-day break in the series, although he wasn’t specific on what that was. “Just basketball,” Popovich said. “It’s a game of mistakes and there’s always areas you can improve. It doesn’t matter if you win a game or lose a game, there’s always things you can improve.”
In those two wins, the Spurs have managed to jump out to early big leads against the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies managed to rally late in both games, but were unable to get over the top. “It’s always a little bit of everything,” Popovich said about his team’s fast starts. “Sometimes it’s your worst nightmare.” Grizzlies coach Lionel Hollins said the reason for his team’s slow starts have stemmed from walking the ball up the court and not pressuring the Spurs offensively. Contrary to perception, Hollins has been pleading with his team all season long to play at a faster pace. “We’ve got to get out of the gate,” he said. “We’ve been in a lot of games where we’ve been down 10-12 points early and by the end of the quarter we’re down four or five or tied. Sometimes it takes us into the second quarter. But San Antonio is too good of a team to get off to a slow start. It’s such a huge hole to get out of every game.
The pregame interview room for Popovich was located next to the Grizzlies weight room, where rap music was blaring the background, much to Popovich’s chagrin. “That’s one of the things that helps you retire,” he said. “You start thinking about there is a life out there. If you can’t dance to it, it’s no good. That’s what I always say.”
The Grizzlies adjustments for their first game back at FedExForum are simple – just play better. “I thought in the second half, especially towards the end of the third quarter and into the fourth quarter, we played much better. We just have to go back to being us.”
Hollins said forward Donte Greene, who was signed as a free agent on April 17 but has yet to dress for the Grizzlies, will be active for tonight’s game. Going on the inactive list in his place will be forward Austin Daye. Whether or not Greene makes his Grizzlies’ debut in a game tonight remains to be seen.
Grizzlies guard Tony Allen was fined $5,000 today for his violated the NBA’s flopping rule in Game 2. Hollins said he had no problem with the league’s decision. “Flopping is not allowed and he flopped and he got fined,” Hollins said. “I don’t think it had anything to do with the call, but that’s the rule.”
– By Marlon W. Morgan





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The grizz are a team that you cannot trust with a big lead. A strong start and then complacency and waking the spurs up.
 
Memphis played absolutely horrible.
Spurs should be up 20, but down 4.

Memphis tried to run too many minutes.
Most of their shots are very bad midrange shots, off a screen and usually without a second to stop and aim.

Somehow, they thought that it's a good idea to try to have three point shooting contest between Bayless and Conley, two of the worst shooters on the floor from downtown...

I think that Spurs are in trouble, but only if Hollins will have his guys playing their regular basketball in the 2nd half.
 
Um spurs should be up 20? Did you even watch the first quarter? Sometimes I feel like you're watching a different game. I agree that the grizz played awful in the 2q because they became complacent but the spurs are the ones that are in the locker room feeling good about where they stand after that first half.
 
Seriously. Divol, what game are you watching? Spurs just came from an 18 pt deficit and now only down 4. Your bias here is surely showing.
 
Think about it. What other professional team do you ever see do what pop did? Nobody. Fucking genius.
 
Yup. I bought off my under and hoping for a 3 pt middle. Still holding on to my spurs +4.5. If spurs win this game,they sweep.
 
In my opinion, Memphis played awful first quarter as well. They ran up and down as if the place was on fire and Spurs missed few transition baskets, while Memphis hit a few transition three pointers, that was the main reason for the big lead (also of course SAS turnovers turning in to easy baskets on the other end).

I think that it wasn't Memphis basketball and the moment the three pointers stop going in and Memphis aren't GSW to live behind the line, SAS made the comeback.

The same in the 3rd quarter. Prince shoots transition mid range jumper? Why?!
 
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