-week 1 ncaaf-

broadwayjoe

May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
FINAL CARD (added throughout the last couple of weeks):

Buffalo -3 (-105)

Miami OH -1.5

Vandy/Miami UNDER 41

NC St/South Carolina UNDER 46

SMU ML +145

Memphis +9.5

Pitt -12

ECU +10/ML +340

Illinois +8/ML +340

Kent St +10

UCLA +7/ML +250




aside from ucla and illinois, and the scar under (which is the fault of thegreek) i'm pretty happy with the numbers that i got. big card, i know..but that's my style.

got a lot of help from the forum, so i appreciate it. took a closer look at smu because of nropp.. reinforced scar even at that number because of dmoney, etg, vegaskyle...took a look at and added ml to ecu because of the feelings of gar and gamehunter and got a lot of good pushback on a few of my plays that i will definitely be keeping an eye on this week. thanks guys.

my thoughts on these plays are throughout this thread, vegaskyle's, gar's, alexgurv's, and a couple of others. i'd be happy to talk these games and address specific questions/concerns, so just ask...


here's to a good year:cheers:
 
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GL Joe !!! lets have a great season ... liking buffalo and south carolina ... any big plays for week 1 ?? how have you been in bases?
 
Buffalo -3 (-105)

Miami OH -1.5

Memphis (def playin it, but waiting for movement)

Pitt -12

ECU +10

Illinois +8 (will also add ml)

Can't lay the points will Buffalo, won't go against the SEC w/ a MAC team but do like the UNDER in that game. I lean OM but suspect the line gets worse in your favor although with Powe now cleared to play, it might not. I am looking at Pitt and I like ECU here but disagree with Illinois, think Mizzouri takes care of business.

wyoming -10(solely because of some guys i respect, but not sure i can pull the trigger and lay 10 with that offense)
south carolina -11.5
cuse +12
kent +10
col st +12
fresno st ml
ucla ml

I am on Wyoming, I am waiting on the SC line but its a likely play under -13 points. I can see Cuse covering vs. NW. Can they score over 17 points in this game with no playmakers on offense because NW is going over 30+. I understand the chances with the FRESNO/UCLA ML but of the two, I am from the opinion that Fresno has about a 2x better shot at winning than UCLA does. I think Tenn covers and it looks nothing like their game on the WC vs. Cal last year. Tenn OL will control the L.O.S. They have a power running game, a talented QB, and playmakers at WR along with an OC who ran some very good offenses are D1AA Richmond. Think UCLA is in trouble in this game, was looking for under a TD to lay but not getting it as of now. GL
 
thanks for your thoughts/input ETG; i'll try to get to most or all of them, however i'd like to start on tennessee, which i respectfully disagree...

taking that defense on the road and laying points is just brutal. on the road or on a neutral field they would have only beat that 7 point spread one time in seven tries, and that was to miss state before they really started playing decent ball. 45, 59, 21, 41, 50, 21, 17 is what their defense gave up on the road/neutral fields this past year. the last two of them were on neutral fields and the 17 was to a team in wisconsin that had an offense ravaged by injuries (yes, i realize that may sound like a stretch, but it's true). front seven is simply not good, they can't rush the passer, and they have to replace a lot of people with arguably less talented players. the secondary certainly got better as the year went on, but they are returning the same saps that were 11th in the sec in pass defense...

their offense lost a very good qb and their offensive coordinator. i don't see that as addition by subtraction at all, and you obviously know more about the richmond guy's offense than i do, but from what i've read it's more complicated and adds a lot of movement which adds even more pressure to a first year starter at qb on the road in his first game who is used to a different, more basic system. and, if it's "cuter" it won't feature foster enough, who should be their whole offense, at least early on in the year. speaking of running the football, ucla's strength will once again be stopping the running with returning most of their front seven that was a top 5 run stopping D last year. i agree tennessee returns a very good o-line, but i disagree that they will completely control the los and push around price and harwell. ucla should also be able to get pressure up front to discourage crompton even more and force him into mistakes as he learns his new offensive scheme. as long as they stick to hammering bell, chow will make olson better, and the offense will be able to score points on this below average defense...24-20 ucla

that's just my take...always respect your opinion ETG
 
GL Joe !!! lets have a great season ... liking buffalo and south carolina ... any big plays for week 1 ?? how have you been in bases?

hey, gmo! don't think i am going to go 3units on anything in ncaaf in week 1...if i do it will just be increasing units to one of these plays that i already have...have locked in 2 3unit plays in the nfl though...browns and skins.

muddling around even all year in bases...been a tough season partly because i haven't as much time to cap as i'd like...on the braves and twins today...so fade those and you should be good haha.
 
Can't lay the points will Buffalo - why not? they got significantly better as the year progressed last year, and they are returning 18 starters...you think it's more likely for utep to travel from texas to buffalo and get a W with that sorry ass defense? bottom-feeding team in a bottom-feeding conference in an out of conference game with a coach who's all but fired with an inferior defense, rushing attack (significant downgrade from marcus thomas to jackson in my opinion), and coaching ...on the road? just don't see it being very likely they win this game.

won't go against the SEC w/ a MAC team but do like the UNDER in that game. - understood, i realize i'm playing with fire here, but i think vandy is going to look a lot like a MAC team this year and miami's defense is very good. your under lean looks good too without me yet knowing what the line is...but i can literally see a 13-5 game.

I lean OM but suspect the line gets worse in your favor although with Powe now cleared to play, it might not.

disagree with Illinois, think Mizzouri takes care of business - not much to say here in terms of on paper, because on paper it looks like mizzou should cover this one. this is a gut feeling based on the game from last year...i watched that entire game and it had to have broken the hearts of the illini the way it went down...and that was before they really got rolling. whereas mizzou isn't really thinking anything of it, it's all illinois has to be thinking about and i weight that pretty heavy in a game like this. i think the way the illini got pounded in the bowl game and the overachieving year that mizzou had has swayed public perception quite a bit here. one thing that i will stick to my guns on after watching them play 6 or 7 times last year, is that they have one of the most overrated defenses in the country. i don't care what the numbers say; their best defense is a good offense. and with the target changing sides this year, they won't be able to sneak up on teams and that defense will eventually be exposed. they are on my fade list. i just think this is too many points to give to a team that has been looking forward to this game in the way illinois has



I am on Wyoming, - i'd like to hear not only your opinion on why you think this is a good play, but concerns people have on wyoming...quite frankly i don't see why i should be so excited about laying dd with this team, but i can't really see how anyone can like ohio from what i've read either, so i'm lost.
 
I am on Wyoming, - i'd like to hear not only your opinion on why you think this is a good play, but concerns people have on wyoming...quite frankly i don't see why i should be so excited about laying dd with this team, but i can't really see how anyone can like ohio from what i've read either, so i'm lost.

Wyoming -10 over Ohio.

Couple things about this game. First the line last year was Wyoming -4 @ Ohio, so move that to a neutral field, you have Wyoming -7, move that to Wyoming (with their elevation) you have Wyoming -11 and that is assuming they are the same teams, which they are not. Ohio will have a huge drop off in offense this year with out McRae who ran for 57yds in that game but for 1500yds on the year with 19tds. So we have a Wyoming DLine that remains in tact and is very good:

UV = .2ypc
Boise = 2.4ypc
Ohio = 1.1ypc
New Mex = 2.9ypc
UNLV = 1.0ypc
SDST = 2.4ypc
CSU = 2.9ypc

So how does Ohio move the ball on Wyoming? With an inexperienced QB in his first start on the road? They are even talking about a duel-QB rotation.

Other factors about this game, Wyoming won the game 34-33 last year basically in the final seconds, sure you can call "revenge" all you want but I don't buy that for a second. Wyoming outgained Ohio by 150yds, had a first down advantage of 15, rushed for 267yds and they have their stud RB back along with an OL that should be improved. To top it off, Wyoming had 7 turnovers in that game, 5 ints and 2 fumbles, and they were -3 overall in turnovers for the game. Lastly, Ohio got 7 points from a 94yd kickoff return, 7 points from a 68yards TD pass, and 7 points from a 34yd INT return to go with 4 field goals from a kicker who was 20-24 on the year and is gone. If Wyoming comes remotely close to holding onto the ball last year and limiting the big play, they win by 3 scores, this year could be worse.

Wyoming is a tough place to come in and play, ask UVA, and Wyoming is the much superior team here with a middle of the pack MW team vs. a bottom tier MAC team.

Other reasons to like Wyoming from the LVSC thread:

Keep in mind that game @Ohio last year also fell the week after traveling to Boise State and the week before the conferene opener against TCU. It was pretty bad situational spot beyond the 7 TO's.

Good information on Ohio Yessir
I just think that Ohio is a bit down from last year and wyoming is slightly up. I agree with ETG that the line in relation to last year makes not sense. They gave up 267 rushing yards to wyoming last year and have one of the smallest defensive lines in the country coming into this year at 262 pounds per player. Pretty much get the same ol vs dl matchup and now it is at altitude , away from home. Last year ohio was held to 1.1 yards per carry against wyoming in their own house ( the running backs were actually over 3.5 a carry, there were some sacks. ). That is complete and total control of the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. ohio 7-15-1 as an away dog over the last 5 years and this is a much harder away spot than their average game. Because of the 68 yard td pass in that game , ohio had its only 100 yard receiving day by a receiver all year.


ohio loses their starting qb , their stud rb , their best o-lineman , their best DL ( lions training camp ), their leading tackler and run supporting safety , and have ohio state on deck who you KNOW they are lookign ahead to no matter what coaches and players say.

seems like a tough spot for that to all meld together and be competitive.
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good info and i've read the majority of that...just can't find one angle to take ohio (besides maybe some bogus revenge) and that's scary. def stayin away here. when i can't even begin to build a case for one of the teams, i obviously am lacking knowledge, and i didn't see the game last year.

just read through your thread and it seems we are on different pages with a few things, but was a good read nonetheless...
 
A couple things ....

First grats on getting miami ohio at -1.5 , the line briefly touched 3 today for the first time and I suspect it will end up closing at -3. Big value advantage for you there.

I can give you several reasons why you shouldn't lay the points with buffalo and also disagree that the team vastly imrpoved last year at the end of year.

--Buffalo has now lost 23 of their last 24 games played against FBS opponents that are not currently part of the MAC conference. Their lone victory came against ucf in 2004. UCF went 0-11 that year.

--Last years record of 5-7 from Buffalo was a mirage. Lets look at their victories.
At temple --buff 42 temple 7. buffalo dominated this game getting 11 more first downs and holding temple to 10 first downs , negative yards rushing and just 141 total yards. Domination and a deserved victory
home to ohio. buffalo 31 ohio 10. 22-18 fd edge , plus 2 in turnovers , about a 120 yard advantage. deserved victory
home to toledo. buff 43 toledo 33. buffalo was out first downed 16 -31 !! outgained by roughly 90 yards. Buffalo had a 75 yard td pass in that game and a fumble recovery for touchdown as well. They were not the better team.
home to akron. buffalo 26 akron 10. buffalo was again outgained and outfirstdowned. 18-21 and 280 vs 327 respectively. They were the benefactors of plus 3 in turniovers.
at kent st. buff 30 kent 23 overtime. outgained again though by only 17 yards and both teams had 21 first downs. The game went to overtime because the kent st kicker missed an extra point early in the game and then had a chipshot 29 yard field goal blocked near the end of regulation.

--The Buffalo bulls outfirstdowned and outgained their opponent in one game the entire season and that was at temple.

--buffalo did especially poorly vs big offensive lines like the ones out of conference. The bulls DL this year averages 269 pounds and LOSES AN NFL CALIBER PLAYER. I bolded this because buffalo simply doesn't produce that many nfl caliber players and he is imposible to replace. The kid accounted for 10 of buffalos 23 sacks last year and his replacement this year weighs 247. UTEP brings in an offensive line that averages out over 303 pounds. 40 pound differential might spell trouble for Buffalo losing their best defensive player.

--Buffalo also loses a player from the offensive line to the nfl. As i said above these are rare birds for this program and replacing him with a guy who has been with the program for 5 years and is getting his first start doesn't instill confidence. Still the buffalo line is big and the UTEP line is tiny but it means less in the new defense that utep will use this year of 3 dl , 3 lb , 5 db. They brought in the Defensive coordinator from UNM and we should see a lot of improvement this year from utep defensively , though it would be hard to think they are completely prepared and used to the system for game 1.

--This game is a HUGE game for both mike price and the UTEP MINER football program. How many times does buffalo face a team that is looking forward to playing them and not looking past them ? UTEP has put an emphasis on this game. Big motivational edges to the miners

--UTEP outperforms the number as a road dog. This team with Price as head coach is now 9-3 ATS as an away underdog.

--In addition to generally being bigger and faster than buffalo the miners also destroy buffalo when it comes to offensive playmakers. While willy is a decent qb who manages games well , Vittatoe is a special player. As someone who has followed the UTEP program , I can tell you that i think he will be the best UTEP qb EVER. He should only improve as a player from his freshman record-setting season of last year. Jackson , while slightly less of a player than Thomas was due to injury , is a very talented kid. Moturi is a tougher cover for Buffalo than any player they will defend in conference ( they do have kinder and maclin to defend ooc ).

--Special teams in a field goal spread game are huge. UTEP has excelled in special teams and will again this year. Martinez does not just have an accurate leg but has an accurate leg from distance.
utep kicker last year 7-7 from 40-49 yards , 2-4 from 50plus
buffalo kicker last year 2-7 from 40-49 yards , 0-0 50plus
in addition , due to emphasis on the unit , the miners consistently are explosive in the return game. In a game lined as closely as this one is , the special teams needs to be considered more heavily than your average game.

UTEP has the talent edge , the speed edge , the size edge , the motivation edge, the skill player edge , the special teams edge. Buffalo has the homefield and a slightly better defense than what utep brings unless the miner defenders have bought into the new defense in the spring and fall.

Wrong team favored and i would never rush to lay points with a team that is looking for its second ooc victory since september of 2002.
 
excellent points vegas...lots of good stuff in there particularly some of that insight on utep ...a little rebuttle...

disagree that the team vastly imrpoved last year at the end of year - still not so sure why you disagree with this other than your opinion that some of their wins were mirages because of the way they play...i unfortunately watched several buffalo games, and i can assure you that they looked a lot more comfortable, confident, cohesive, and all-around way better of a football team at the end of the year...

--Buffalo has now lost 23 of their last 24 games played against FBS opponents that are not currently part of the MAC conference. Their lone victory came against ucf in 2004. UCF went 0-11 that year. - i like a good trend every now and then as much as the next guy, but i really don't think this applies here in a program trying to get turned around to the extent buffalo has blown over the years and it being the pre-gill "era" (HA) and now they will be trying to build momentum and think they are in hunt for a mac title/bowl game...so i don't necessarily think that they lack motivation


--The Buffalo bulls outfirstdowned and outgained their opponent in one game the entire season and that was at temple. - never claimed they were explosive or high-powered on offense...but they had an increasingly effective running game that should benefit from the 3-3-5 switch, a qb who doesn't make mistakes and should be better with a year of experience, and the ability to control the clock and play keep away which is the only way to beat an explosive offense. also helps they are playing an awful, awful defense talent-wise...also i disagree with you that these are anomalies and buff should have lost all those games....obviously a huge part of the game is the ability to hang on to the football and make plays on defense that cause turnovers...

--buffalo did especially poorly vs big offensive lines like the ones out of conference. - this is a trend/situation that i wasn't aware of...i will look into this further thanks

---The kid accounted for 10 of buffalos 23 sacks last year and his replacement this year weighs 247. UTEP brings in an offensive line that averages out over 303 pounds. 40 pound differential might spell trouble for Buffalo losing their best defensive player. - agree it will be tough to match that same pressure from last year, but they have 8 returning starters on that squad that was the strength by far of the team and the 2 corners were freshmen that will be a lot better with a year under their belt

--They brought in the Defensive coordinator from UNM and we should see a lot of improvement this year from utep defensively , though it would be hard to think they are completely prepared and used to the system for game 1. - aware of this and not a fan of this system personally, especially vs teams like buffalo. they don't have the talent to make the system work either because they haven't been recruiting for the system. i see zero changes early on and agree with your last statement that they won't be prepared defensively

-- UTEP has put an emphasis on this game. Big motivational edges to the miners - you seem to know more about utep than i do, but i just don't see how there can be a motivational edge with texas on deck and them having to travel so far...just don't see it. and price i believe is a lame duck coach and not a good one so any excitement and motivation he tries to create has a good chance at failing

--UTEP outperforms the number as a road dog. This team with Price as head coach is now 9-3 ATS as an away underdog. - don't have the numbers, but don't believe c-usa performs well against the number ooc, and i consider utep to be one of the worst teams in the conf



--Special teams in a field goal spread game are huge. UTEP has excelled in special teams and will again this year. Martinez does not just have an accurate leg but has an accurate leg from distance.
utep kicker last year 7-7 from 40-49 yards , 2-4 from 50plus
buffalo kicker last year 2-7 from 40-49 yards , 0-0 50plus
in addition , due to emphasis on the unit , the miners consistently are explosive in the return game. In a game lined as closely as this one is , the special teams needs to be considered more heavily than your average game.
- good points...just hope to keep the returners off the field and i think there is a good chance of that because they won't be punting much and it's not like they'll be scoring everytime down either... a ball control offense is one that they have and that is what they need here

UTEP has the:
talent edge: overall, yes. but on one side of the ball i'm not so sure. i agree with this overall though....
the speed edge ...yes
the size edge ...concentrating on one side of the ball again imo..a 3-3-5 is not a significant size advantage taking all into account
the motivation edge - agree to disagree
the skill player edge - yes


Buffalo has the:
homefield advantage - something i hold a lot of weight on, especially with long travel and no rivalry present
slightly better defense - i would argue a way better defense; more experienced, more talented, better track record, better play-makers, comfortable with their system, and have a system that is much more equipped to their opponent than vise versa

i would also argue a big coaching advantage
i would also argue the better running game

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under gill their ooc has been absolutely brutal by the way...just did some digging:

2006:

at auburn
at bc
at wisc

2007:

at rutgers
at penn st
baylor
at cuse


the only games that they had ANY chance in hell of winning were cuse (in which they were very competitive) and maybe, maybe baylor, who they only lost by 13...but regardless they played zero mid-majors ooc, so i don't see how you could hold a whole lot of weight to that
 
excellent points vegas...lots of good stuff in there particularly some of that insight on utep ...a little rebuttle...

disagree that the team vastly imrpoved last year at the end of year - still not so sure why you disagree with this other than your opinion that some of their wins were mirages because of the way they play...i unfortunately watched several buffalo games, and i can assure you that they looked a lot more comfortable, confident, cohesive, and all-around way better of a football team at the end of the year...

--Buffalo has now lost 23 of their last 24 games played against FBS opponents that are not currently part of the MAC conference. Their lone victory came against ucf in 2004. UCF went 0-11 that year. - i like a good trend every now and then as much as the next guy, but i really don't think this applies here in a program trying to get turned around to the extent buffalo has blown over the years and it being the pre-gill "era" (HA) and now they will be trying to build momentum and think they are in hunt for a mac title/bowl game...so i don't necessarily think that they lack motivation


--The Buffalo bulls outfirstdowned and outgained their opponent in one game the entire season and that was at temple. - never claimed they were explosive or high-powered on offense...but they had an increasingly effective running game that should benefit from the 3-3-5 switch, a qb who doesn't make mistakes and should be better with a year of experience, and the ability to control the clock and play keep away which is the only way to beat an explosive offense. also helps they are playing an awful, awful defense talent-wise...also i disagree with you that these are anomalies and buff should have lost all those games....obviously a huge part of the game is the ability to hang on to the football and make plays on defense that cause turnovers...

--buffalo did especially poorly vs big offensive lines like the ones out of conference. - this is a trend/situation that i wasn't aware of...i will look into this further thanks

---The kid accounted for 10 of buffalos 23 sacks last year and his replacement this year weighs 247. UTEP brings in an offensive line that averages out over 303 pounds. 40 pound differential might spell trouble for Buffalo losing their best defensive player. - agree it will be tough to match that same pressure from last year, but they have 8 returning starters on that squad that was the strength by far of the team and the 2 corners were freshmen that will be a lot better with a year under their belt

--They brought in the Defensive coordinator from UNM and we should see a lot of improvement this year from utep defensively , though it would be hard to think they are completely prepared and used to the system for game 1. - aware of this and not a fan of this system personally, especially vs teams like buffalo. they don't have the talent to make the system work either because they haven't been recruiting for the system. i see zero changes early on and agree with your last statement that they won't be prepared defensively

-- UTEP has put an emphasis on this game. Big motivational edges to the miners - you seem to know more about utep than i do, but i just don't see how there can be a motivational edge with texas on deck and them having to travel so far...just don't see it. and price i believe is a lame duck coach and not a good one so any excitement and motivation he tries to create has a good chance at failing

--UTEP outperforms the number as a road dog. This team with Price as head coach is now 9-3 ATS as an away underdog. - don't have the numbers, but don't believe c-usa performs well against the number ooc, and i consider utep to be one of the worst teams in the conf



--Special teams in a field goal spread game are huge. UTEP has excelled in special teams and will again this year. Martinez does not just have an accurate leg but has an accurate leg from distance.
utep kicker last year 7-7 from 40-49 yards , 2-4 from 50plus
buffalo kicker last year 2-7 from 40-49 yards , 0-0 50plus
in addition , due to emphasis on the unit , the miners consistently are explosive in the return game. In a game lined as closely as this one is , the special teams needs to be considered more heavily than your average game. - good points...just hope to keep the returners off the field and i think there is a good chance of that because they won't be punting much and it's not like they'll be scoring everytime down either... a ball control offense is one that they have and that is what they need here

UTEP has the:
talent edge: overall, yes. but on one side of the ball i'm not so sure. i agree with this overall though....
the speed edge ...yes
the size edge ...concentrating on one side of the ball again imo..a 3-3-5 is not a significant size advantage taking all into account
the motivation edge - agree to disagree
the skill player edge - yes


Buffalo has the:
homefield advantage - something i hold a lot of weight on, especially with long travel and no rivalry present
slightly better defense - i would argue a way better defense; more experienced, more talented, better track record, better play-makers, comfortable with their system, and have a system that is much more equipped to their opponent than vise versa

i would also argue a big coaching advantage
i would also argue the better running game

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lol , well we see it differently. would wish you luck but i will be on the other side so it would be hollow as far as this game is concerned.

Mike Price loses this game , he is fired. I am a big Turner Gil guy too but price is a good coach , you have to remember the utep program was in the crapper almost as much as buffalo prior to his arrival. Small coaching edge to buffalo i agree.

Disagree that buffalo has the better rushing game this year than the miners. Certainly the miners had a better rushing game than buffalo last year and against similar levels of defenses. They rushed for more yards on less carries. Of course the buffalo run defense was better than utep. UTEP defense was an atrocity last year, giving up 4.8 a carry.

I did not see many buffalo games last year. I did see them against syracuse and bowling green and was unimpressed by both efforts. Both of those games happened late october or later. Those were also two of their worst performances down the stretch though too ..... so i have to consider that.

UTEP should NOT be looking ahead to Texas. This is the game they are focused on. This game is the most important of the whole season for the program. Buffalo. Without a win here , revenue losses for the school will be huge , the coach will be fired at seasons end ( barring conf usa title ) and the kids will struggle to buy in to the program. Motivation will definitely not be an issue for this team. IT should be factored in as a positive for the team.

For all our mutual love for turner gil , he is 0-7 against non-MAC teams by an average score of 36-10 since taking over at buffalo. A lot fo those teams were much better than what UTEP brings to the table though ... i think 5 of them were ranked and buffalo was picking up a check.

As for the mirage statements.... yes i think they deserved to lose to toledo and kent st. and dont find any loss that comes close to being a game they deserved to win ( miami ohio being the only candidate at all ).

You are right about the miner size defensively , the 3-3-5 is meant to counteract that deficiency in the rush game. I am not a fan of it either but it certainly worked for Lewis with the lobos and i doubt they can regress much from last years rush defense.


Wish you luck in the other games but i am against the rest of the forums ( everyone seems to be in love with buffalo on forums across the net ) and you on this game.
 
well...let's start with 207.85. 207.85 rushing ypg they allowed. fucking atrocious. okay...well they got worse in the offseason. worse. worse than 207.85 fucking yards. and the offense who last year could score on anybody, takes a major step back as they attempt to basically rebuild their whole o-line.... which means pitt will be in the backfield all game long. i think it was a small miracle bg made it to a bowl game last year with what they had and i wouldn't surprised at all if they won 5 or 6 games this year...sheehan and the wr corp results in a one trick pony, and now losing a lot on an average oline as it is...will be tough.

any offensive explosiveness at all will make this team look as silly as tulsa did. pitt has some talent offensively. i believe mccoy is a top back in the country, and he shares time with a solid back in stephens-howlings and they have a corp of explosive receivers....although that may not even apply here because they shouldn't put it up here virtually at all with bg's run defense and the backs they have. qb position will be better one way or another, either by talent or experience, and i believe the o-line will reload nicely. pitt isn't missing much at all (i believe clermond can be replaced quite easily by romeus) from a pass defense that ranked 3rd in the country...which should shut down bg's one dimensional offense almost entirely. bg has no weaknesses that they are able to exploit at all. if pitt can get the passing game going i think they have a legitimate shot at the big east. two teams going in entirely opposite directions

i know it's difficult to trash a team that beat the shit out of the team i tried to build up 10 minutes ago, but that has a lot to do with style of buffalo as far as getting down early and not being able to rebound, which is something that i think they can avoid vs utep...and utep is certainly no pitt...im trashing them on a "relative to current competition" basis hhaha.
 
well...let's start with 207.85. 207.85 rushing ypg they allowed. fucking atrocious. okay...well they got worse in the offseason. worse. worse than 207.85 fucking yards. and the offense who last year could score on anybody, takes a major step back as they attempt to basically rebuild their whole o-line.... which means pitt will be in the backfield all game long. i think it was a small miracle bg made it to a bowl game last year with what they had and i wouldn't surprised at all if they won 5 or 6 games this year...sheehan and the wr corp results in a one trick pony, and now losing a lot on an average oline as it is...will be tough.

any offensive explosiveness at all will make this team look as silly as tulsa did. pitt has some talent offensively. i believe mccoy is a top back in the country, and he shares time with a solid back in stephens-howlings and they have a corp of explosive receivers....although that may not even apply here because they shouldn't put it up here virtually at all with bg's run defense and the backs they have. qb position will be better one way or another, either by talent or experience, and i believe the o-line will reload nicely. pitt isn't missing much at all (i believe clermond can be replaced quite easily by romeus) from a pass defense that ranked 3rd in the country...which should shut down bg's one dimensional offense almost entirely. bg has no weaknesses that they are able to exploit at all. if pitt can get the passing game going i think they have a legitimate shot at the big east. two teams going in entirely opposite directions

i know it's difficult to trash a team that beat the shit out of the team i tried to build up 10 minutes ago, but that has a lot to do with style of buffalo as far as getting down early and not being able to rebound, which is something that i think they can avoid vs utep...and utep is certainly no pitt...im trashing them on a "relative to current competition" basis hhaha.


i see a lot of the same things. looks on paper like pitt could run dive plays all game and never be stopped. Agree with your assessment of their ol as they bsically ge three new starters.

The comparison between the two games ends at pttisburgh. utep , buffalo and Bg are all comparable to each other where as pitt is miles ahead of the three others. Plus its all about matchups. no worries there.

Same reasons i like tcu to dominate the los seem to apply here as well. Can i trust pitt to not give up the backdoor ?
 
Holy crap...you all did not just get that in-depth on Buffalo/UTEP did you???

This is a good thread, interesting to see someone who looks at things a little different than everyone else here as far as Week 1 games are concerned...I agree with you on Memphis and UCLA for sure, like the other side with South Carolina.
 
Holy crap...you all did not just get that in-depth on Buffalo/UTEP did you???

This is a good thread, interesting to see someone who looks at things a little different than everyone else here as far as Week 1 games are concerned...I agree with you on Memphis and UCLA for sure, like the other side with South Carolina.

Linde, why State?
 
Linde, why State?

I can't give you a lot you don't already know, but it's mostly feel. I really wonder, unless NCSU is giving up defensive TD's or special teams TD's, how SC is going to put up enough points to cover this one. I see an ugly, ugly game, and I just don't think the Cocks are a team who has enough firepower to cover spreads like this early on.

NC State brings back a lot of key guys (some who were lost to injury last year), and I think they have the coaching to at least hang tight here. I think SC probly wins but I don't expect it to be pretty...just don't see the Pack laying down and getting spanked in the opener on Thursday night primetime.

One thing I do hate about this is the NCSU DC - former UK DC Mike Archer, who isn't worth two shits.

Nothing final though, just how I feel right now...
 
I can't give you a lot you don't already know, but it's mostly feel. I really wonder, unless NCSU is giving up defensive TD's or special teams TD's, how SC is going to put up enough points to cover this one. I see an ugly, ugly game, and I just don't think the Cocks are a team who has enough firepower to cover spreads like this early on.

NC State brings back a lot of key guys (some who were lost to injury last year), and I think they have the coaching to at least hang tight here. I think SC probly wins but I don't expect it to be pretty...just don't see the Pack laying down and getting spanked in the opener on Thursday night primetime.

One thing I do hate about this is the NCSU DC - former UK DC Mike Archer, who isn't worth two shits.

Nothing final though, just how I feel right now...

Do you think SC can score 24-27 points on State?
 
24 max IMO. I'm thinking more like 17-20 though.

Besides the Vandy game which was a complete disaster, SC was held under 20 points vs. UGA and LSU.

On the other hand, State held Wofford and Miami to under 20 points and on defense last year they replace all 3 LB's, 2 on the DL, and 2 in the secondary.

The TE's from SC are a huge mismatch for State.

By all accounts the SC offense should be better than it was last year.

I don't see State doing much if any significant passing on SC and there is a pretty big special teams advantage for SC.

I have State scoring a max of 13 points but more likely up to 10 which would mean SC has to score 21+ and I think that is very doable here.

Am I under the impression you were higher on SC going into 2007 than you are this year?
 
I'm not saying that linde has capped SC incorrectly, but I think that part of him is still bitter over the inexplicable loss on the SC over 7 wins last year. Can't really blame him.
 
I'm not saying that linde has capped SC incorrectly, but I think that part of him is still bitter over the inexplicable loss on the SC over 7 wins last year. Can't really blame him.

I am still very bitter about that as well
 
I think S carolina averaged 27 a game at home lst year vs fbs schools. Some pretty salty teams too ...miss st , florida clemson to name a few. Since I don't think that ncstate can score , it means I think s carolina gets good field position on average. NCstate failed to reach 20 points in 4 of their 5 road games last year and 6 of their 7 losses last year were by 17 or more points. S carolina is right up there with Auburn and Florida on the defensive side of the ball and ncstate struggles to score on anyone. ncstate loses 5 of top 6 tacklers.

Not sure I want to lay the points because of my hatred for double digit favorites but it sure looks good.

Early money tends to be smart money though and the line has moved consistently downward since open.
 
Besides the Vandy game which was a complete disaster, SC was held under 20 points vs. UGA and LSU.

On the other hand, State held Wofford and Miami to under 20 points and on defense last year they replace all 3 LB's, 2 on the DL, and 2 in the secondary.

The TE's from SC are a huge mismatch for State.

By all accounts the SC offense should be better than it was last year.

I don't see State doing much if any significant passing on SC and there is a pretty big special teams advantage for SC.

I have State scoring a max of 13 points but more likely up to 10 which would mean SC has to score 21+ and I think that is very doable here.

Am I under the impression you were higher on SC going into 2007 than you are this year?

A few of the games you include are when Mitchell started (Georgia, Tennessee, Arkansas, Florida, Clemson), where the offense was a little more effective. Was the offense really that much of a threat with Smelley under center? They scored 38 on MSU, and 38 on UK - but 14 of the points against the Cats were defensive TD's. What did Smelley do against a real D?

I'm just not that intimidated by this unit. They lose one of their biggest playmakers in Boyd, and I worry quite a bit about Smelley. I'm not sure if the OL is good enough to make room for a RB who isn't quite as good as Boyd.

Clearly I'm not as high on this group. I don't know, maybe it's the fact they regressed quite a bit after improving in Spurrier's first two years. Can SC ever be a real power in the SEC?
 
And I think it's unreasonable to say that since SC averaged 27 ppg at home last year and NC State scored over 20 only once on the road last year, that you can't play NCSU here. To me, those stats do not play a major factor in capping this game. Like I said, this is mostly feel, anyway.
 
And I think it's unreasonable to say that since SC averaged 27 ppg at home last year and NC State scored over 20 only once on the road last year, that you can't play NCSU here. To me, those stats do not play a major factor in capping this game. Like I said, this is mostly feel, anyway.


no its definitely not reasonable in the sense that we are talking about two different teams year over year. It isn't the basis of making a bet. Just pointing out some tendencies that absolutely should be considered in the context of the whole picture.

The matchup in relation to the spread is the cornerstone of how i handicap. Not saying its the best way but its my way. Not complete with my look at the game and have concerns with the south carolina side which is one of the reasons i havent fired already. Though there is no hurry anyway as the line has major downward momentum.
 
nice south carolina debate fellas...

i'm officially backing off wyoming, south carolina, cuse barring the books don't throw a couple points my way

everything that i have read points to me being better off locking memphis in now so i did...predicting line movement is not my strength and my luck i'd wait and be stuck with 9 and watch a 30-21 final...i never would have guessed that kent line would move down from 10...fuck

Memphis +9.5
 
A few of the games you include are when Mitchell started (Georgia, Tennessee, Arkansas, Florida, Clemson), where the offense was a little more effective. Was the offense really that much of a threat with Smelley under center? They scored 38 on MSU, and 38 on UK - but 14 of the points against the Cats were defensive TD's. What did Smelley do against a real D?

I'm just not that intimidated by this unit. They lose one of their biggest playmakers in Boyd, and I worry quite a bit about Smelley. I'm not sure if the OL is good enough to make room for a RB who isn't quite as good as Boyd.

Clearly I'm not as high on this group. I don't know, maybe it's the fact they regressed quite a bit after improving in Spurrier's first two years. Can SC ever be a real power in the SEC?

I couldn't get to this in the morning so I will now.

Not to nitpick, SC really scored 31 on UK. Saunders fumbling the ball out of the endzone on the first drive was directly canceled out by Woodson fumbling it back to us on the next series. Saunder's catch was a touchdown if he doesn't slow down on the 5yd line. The other fumble for a TD, I will give you that.

As of right now, Smelley isn't the QB, Spurrier says that Beecher is and thats it as of now. Beecher is bigger, has a stronger arm, and smarter but he didn't have the confidence in himself so Spurrier didn't play him. Spurrier spent all offseason trying to get Beecher to believe in himself and apparently he has carried himself differently this summer. The thing about the QB position here, he doesn't have to be Dan Marino, he has to "manage the game" and I think Beecher is suited to do that. Now, this is all nice speculation until he takes his first snap but this is Shane Mattews the second for Spurrier. Smelley makes dumb decisions, he did it the whole Vandy game, he telegraphs his throws and his arm is weak. The OL is far deeper, more talented, and more experienced than its ever been since Spurrier arrived. A couple of 3rd year players will be manning spots on the OL that they otherwise were not ready for last season.

No doubt, my favorite player, Boyd is a loss but Mitchell is not. Mike Davis has been the starter at RB before, during the 2005 season when Boyd was suspended but he needs someone compliment him and there are 2 players that will be given that chance (Maddox/Wallace) and both bring a different rushing style than Davis. The TE's might be the best tandem in the SEC and they will be a HUGE part of the offense. If they are not the best tandem when the year is over, they will be behind Ingram and Hernandez of UF. McKinnley is a top 2 WR in the conference and he will be complimented by a deep threat in Moe Brown, a possession WR in Lecorn, and a big man in either R-Frosh Joe Hills or Jason Barnes. There is more experienced talent on offense this year than last. SC lost Boyd, a first year starter at center, and Mitchell and the latter 2 are replaced by more effective starters.

Now, what does this all mean vs. NC State. Well you have a green NC State defense, especially at LB and they will be the focus of the offensive attack. They can not match up and cover the SC TE's. The OL should be able to give Davis room to move and if that happens then Spurrier will have State off balance all night on defense.

When State is on offense their focus will be to 1)run the ball, 2)run the ball, 3)hit the TE. I do not think they want to take any chances downfield with either of their vetern turnover prone QB's or their young inexperienced ones. Currently they have 5 players auditioning for the QB spot. They will try to utilize the short passing game, the play action type plays, and the TE. I believe SC on defense this year will look like night and day compared to last. Ellis Johnson is head and shoulders fundamentally above Tyrone Nix. If he can make Miss St a top 5 defense in the SEC last year, then he can certainly make this SC defense rank up there with UGA, Auburn, LSU, UF. I've had a problem with Nix's defenses for a long time, especially in 3rd and long and he never attacked the offense enough.

Spurrier is going to benefit from excellent field position because of the defense and the special teams all night and anytime he gets a short field to work with he is going to get some points, even if it is 3 with Succop from 50yds.

Other than that, this game can not be a sloppy game for Carolina. It won't be good for them mentally. They have to come out like gangbusters and blast NC St right away. They have to move on from last years collapse as quickly as possible and the best way to do that would to win convincingly. If this is a 17-10 game, I fear for another sloppy 6-6 or 7-5 year but this team is much better than that. They should go 8-4 or 9-3 when it is all said and done. Even with how bad last year ended, they are 1 play away from winning each of Tennessee and Clemson but they didn't because they were young, inexperienced, beat up, and not hungry enough. I believe it will be different this year. This is by far a more talented team that last year because of how much they've grown up in a year and how experienced they are everywhere. Norwood-Cook-Munnerlyn have been competing in the SEC since they were true frosh, now they are juniors and top players at their position in the conference. Jasper is a top 2 LB. Kenny and the TE's rank up there at their position in the conference as well as Succop being one of the best kickers. Spurrier has been almost gushing at how the team looks physically. For the first time since he has been there he feels like he has an "SEC Looking" team, now they have to play like one.

Thursday nights at Willliams Brice are probably a little more rowdy than Saturday nights and since this is the opener its going to be a very hostile environment for State to walk into and be competitive. I am done with my rambling but believe this is a 31-13, 27-10, type game.
 
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One thing is for certain, Memphis is going to have a tough day with their OL vs. Ole Miss DL. Is 9.5 points too many? I dunno, I would play OM if it got to -7 but I'm in no hurry to lay 10 points here.
 
2007 e mich 3 pitt 27
2006 toledo 3 pitt 45
2004 ohio 3 pitt 24
2002 kent 3 pitt 43

yup. they seem to like the number 3
 
Guess we just see it different ETG. Shit, I'm not even sure if I'm playing it yet. I'm still glad I talked myself off SC -28 in the opener last year.

For two SEC guys, you are a hell of a lot higher on these groups than I am.
 
Great information guys. The more I read and research the Pitt game, I can't get a feel for why the line is only at -12.5. In all reality, it is probably the Wanny factor as he could not coach a whore into bed:)

AlexGurv - As a Pitt guy, what are your thoughts on the outcome of this game? Sorry if you had already posted it, I did not see it and wanted to get your thoughts before laying some coin.
 
NC State 0 - 37 loss to end the year vs. Maryland, beaten by 20 the week before. Disturbing to end the year like that, and only thing is O'brien second year would have to think improved.

---NC State on dline should be about the same, they do lose all 3 lb's but I don't see much dropoff they weren't great losses.

This team is bland like O'brien, but that is really bad when it's not fundamentally consistent stop the run run the ball bland like B.C.

----NC State last year was an eningma, like I said above certaintly showed pourus in games, but had some signs. They did beat Virgiina, Miami FL, and North Carolina before that collapse.


LINDETRAIN makes the top point for why this is a possible no play. U-G-L-Y scenario is very envisionable.
---O'Brien and his history as far as style of play. N.C. State knows that's its only chance is to Jeff Van Gundy it up.
---South Carolina LENDS itself to this possibility. Bad O-line, ineptability to run the ball, a system of anticipated quick reads with an interception prone and ineffective proven quarterback are all the ingredients.

05 year, Opening game of the year, Miss State vs. South Carolina. UGLY game, neither team could score, and Spurrier called plays off his list of ole ball coach plays without protecting the qb.

IMO I doubt NC State will score much so this is there ability on D to ugly it up and SC ability on offense to ugly it up.
----Statistically, last year N.C. State did only hold opponents under 20 points one time. At the same time, South Carolina offensiively only put up points against Arkansas, or Florida in blowout situations. Got some help vs. Kentucky, but did put 38 on a good Miss State defense and low 20s vs. Clemson and Tennessee isn't too damaging.

Common opponent North Carolina, both won in very tight games.

NC State is going to be just as pumped up as South Carolina. The fact that this is O'Briens second year and offseason to mold these guys into his type of team, and that in SC you would be relying on an O-line and qb that has not proven itself.

Certaintly, I think South Carolina is the more explosive team offensively. But this is a hit or miss team. I mean they can string some plays together and look real nice but the majority is puddling through mud bungling themselves.

One pick by SC could be damaging. Confidence is big with this qb, offense, Spurriers demeaner to his players on the sideline he gives bad signals.

There's stuff here that says South Carolina could cover, but nothing that makes it anymore than a gamble.

---I want to put my money on reliable teams. SC you are counting on shit that hasn't been able to been counted on the the past. When they can't get there shit together this time you'll be kicking yourself in the a##.
 
I like that write-up O-State, hahah...

I'm thinking about teasing this to +18.5 for a real safety net, as I find it near impossible for the Cocks to cover that. Working on a partner for it though.
 
adding:

UCLA +7

update:
Buffalo -3 (-105)
Miami OH -1.5
Memphis +9.5
Pitt -12
ECU +10
Illinois +8/probable ml
Kent St +10
UCLA +7/probable ml

*eliminated from consideration (unless a drastic line change):
Wyoming
South Carolina
Syracuse
Colorado St
Fresno St

*new considerations:
SMU (looking further into because of nropp's write-up)
Oregon (since it dropped below 2 tds)


*total preliminary leans (will probably only have 2-3 of these depending on lines):
vandy/miami oh under
nc st/scar under
smu/rice over
utah/mich under
tulsa/uab over
bama/clemson under
 
On Illinois +8.5 and Memphis +8.5. Like those two. I would lay off of the Illinois Money line, as I just do not see Mizzou losing this game. Mizzou defense will be better this year, the only question is some of them have been banged up in the offseason. Look for Mizzou to use the run game and throw short passes to RB Washington. Mizzou will run more screens this year and throw to Washington more. Temple was a horrible pass catcher. Washington is more shifty, much better pass catcher. Temple had better straight ahead speed, but with losing Spieker at Center and Luellen at Left Tackle look for more controlled passing game. Mizzou is also without their 2nd best WR, Danario Alexander.

All that being said, look for a close Mizzou win. Game should be no more than a 6 point win for Mizzou.
 
adding:

Vandy/Miami UNDER 41

NC St/South Carolina UNDER 46 (well aware i lost value here, but this is where i anticipated it coming out...no idea where they got 50.5 from..congrats to you early guys)


i have eliminated utah/michigan under and the bama/clemson under...still considering the other two...

i'm going to add smu when it comes out, and have pretty much eliminated oregon. i def won't play oregon at -14, maybe if it drops again i'll consider it
 
eliminated the other two totals mainly because i didn't want to spend anymore money on this weekend's card, but there was a lot of reasons i had to questions both...ended up adding smu moneyline last night. eliminated oregon as well because i already have my dd chalk play (pitt), and not sure i can stomach another one, but i do still like it.

my first post has been edited to include my final card for week 1...one more day! any last minute things you guys want to add or ask me, it is welcomed...have most of the day free today.

gl guys!
 
not the way i wanted to start this highly anticipated season, but fuck. one game capped very very wrong cost me, then i chased it too. long weekend, hopefully smu ml will have me going into saturday in the black...

after thurs:

2-3 -1.25
 
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