Warning on SPAIN

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Sammy Meatballs

Sammy Meatballs

Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
Every single year Spain rips through their grouping and looks very impressive. In this year as others they played possibly the weakest teams in this group.

Sweden has no OFFENSE and almost tied them if not for the goal in 91st minute.

Russia was missing their top 2 strikers and is known for having a weak defense.


When watching this Spain team, scoring goals vs Russia, struggling to beat Sweden I really think they are very very average squad.

They have the striking tandem of VILLA and TORRES who are very good, and can match any other tandem in this tournament.

Where they are weak is in defense and in their goaltending. Spain has never got good goaltending. THe goal last game CASILLAS let in vs SWEDEN was such an easy save, even a high school keeper would have had it. The shot was shot right at him with no power right through his hands.

WHen I see ITALY vs SPAIN, I see a team that has won the World CUP with a LETHAL goalie in BUFFON. I see SPAIN as a team who has won nothing and has a weak goalie and DEFENSE.

Don't be deceived about Spain, they are not good at all. I think Italy can beat them in the game without a doubt.

Holland also struggles every year also, but their squad is different from SPAINS. They are strong throughout the squad from a world class goalie to midfield to the best strikers in the tourny. They have scored 9 goals so we know they can score, and vs better teams in ITALY, FrANCE and ROMANIA. That is impressive to say the least.

Certain things we know and it is ITALY does not give many goals, they gave up 3 vs HOLLAND but that is because Holland has blistering pace and basically has the ball the whole time so tehy are inevitably going to have all the scoring chances. Their passing is so good that they get good shots and finish them with their world class strikers.



SPAIN has VILLA and TORRES. THey are good, but when I think about it, Italy has played guys like this in their SERIE A league. Players like TORRES ANd VILLA dissappear at this stage-

This SPANISH team is a mirrage, they played no one, put it this way Holland can beat Russia 5 or 6-0. Holland would also beat SWEDEN.

Italy could beat Russia also and Sweden I believe.

SPAIN is not a complete team, they beat the weaker teams and lose to better teams, they fold. Spanish players are very emotional and moody, throw in a shitty coach and in fighting and this is why they lose every time.

Spain is average at best, and vs BUFFON in elimination matches ITALY wins vs SPAIN.
 
I disagree. They may not win tomorrow since they do not need it, but they are a team that has showed MUCH more than Italy so far.

Also, I disagree with you about Casillas. Alongside Buffon, he is probably the best keeper in the world.

You dismissed Cech as well pretty easily, even though he was BRILLIANT until that choke.
 
Italy will eliminate David Villa and cover TORRES and Spain is done.

Also they have smaller defenders on SPAIN, and the air route that Italy is taking with TONY and maybe MATTERAZZI will be good for at least one header goal in this game. Italy is much taller.

Spain is not great at all, if they were in Italy's group I doubt it they advance as I think they cannot beat Holland, France or Italy.
 
Satyr said:
I disagree. They may not win tomorrow since they do not need it, but they are a team that has showed MUCH more than Italy so far.

Also, I disagree with you about Casillas. Alongside Buffon, he is probably the best keeper in the world.

You dismissed Cech as well pretty easily, even though he was BRILLIANT until that choke.
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Satry I cannot believe you do not agree with me, I thought we were friends?
 
This is going to be a bit of a weird matchup, with Italy a bit under-manned, and Spain perhaps a little overrated.

I think there could be goals here, but one thing that has always bothered me about Italy over the course of say eight or so years, is this insistence on scoring once then playing defense. They did it again today, it drives me up a wall.

It's one thing I like about the current Dutch team, although part of the reason they keep playing offense is because they frankly can't play much defense. They're a forward moving team, not backward (think: Romania). Italy can be both, but they're better moving forward so I hate it when they try to become some lock-down defensive squad.
 
Spain is not great at all, if they were in Italy's group I doubt it they advance as I think they cannot beat Holland, France or Italy.

I disagree, if Spain was in that group they would have kicked the s**t out of everybody except the Dutch. France played without Henry in their first game and never played well. Italy played very poorly in their first game, and only well in spots in their other two contests. The only contest would have been with the Dutch who've played consistently.

I like Italy, they're just not playing at a high level consistently enough right now.
 
Italy gets stronger every single tournament while SPAIN gets weaker every tournament as it goes on.

Italy is playing with house money, I see them beating Spain without a doubt. BUFFON is heads and shoulders better than everyone, Van Der SAR is a close second.
BUFFON can win this game by himself. SPanish goaltending is legendary for being weak and their goalies get nervous and let in the worst goals as CASILLAS already has last game.
 
Btw, you have the right to say that Italy will go through, but what did you like in Italy really?


Ok, they had a goal disallowed against Romania (a clear goal), but Romania also missed a penalty.

Against Netherlands, Italy looked very poor. Against France, without Ribery for the most part and with 10 men for another, they also looked quite inept of scoring or even creating chances.

What exactly did you like? Because I saw a clueless team who already quit on their coach (supposedly Lippi will return after the tournament), a slow defense, out of form Pirlo, Toni who missed 20 chances...

Also, don't forget, Gattuso won't play against Spain. I think another player won't but can't recall now.

Overall, I think Spain are favorites to go through, mostly due to Donadoni's incompetence.
 
Italy gets stronger every single tournament while SPAIN gets weaker every tournament as it goes on.

Generally very, very true. Italy needs to get through the Spain game without any more players getting sent off and I'll feel better about their chances. Meanwhile Spain has proven they can collapse at any time.
 
Also, don't forget, Gattuso won't play against Spain. I think another player won't but can't recall now.

Two are out, I want to say Pierlo is the other.
 
Toni is terrible, if he could score they would score 4 or 5 a game. Throw that out of the window he can score now. If he can get an early goal he can win.

I like ITALY because if they score an early goal they can win 1-0.

If it is tied, they will be happy to let it go to penalty kicks as they will win with BUFFON also.

THey know how to win, they won the world CUP--

They are generating chances if TONI can score he would have 8 goals by himself. They have the heart to win, BUFFON is the best, I like that, goalies can win titles for you in soccer, last world cup BUFFON gave up 0 goals during the tourny play.
 
I really don't know why Italy looked so slow today, but you're right, Satyr, they looked really slow.

That sub they put in at the end, Acquasomething, he looked like he was ready to go.

Frankly, without Totti this team's got some leadership issues up front if you ask me.
 
last world cup BUFFON gave up 0 goals during the tourny play.

Gigi was spectacular in the WC, that said, he had a pretty average final which I was disappointed to see. But he is easily one of the best in the world right now.

Without his save vs. Romania they wouldn't even be here.
 
Up front Italy is not lethal as we try to score in the air, and we miss every chance, but TONI is due to start scoring and stop missing.

ALso what I like is that I think Italy D will own VILLA and TORRES, TORRES is harder to cover and faster, I dont think VILLA is very good, a good DEFENSEMan will just outmuscle him and shoulder him off the ball--

THe DUTCH with that big enforcer Orlando will crush VILLA.

WHy is SWEDEN tryong to play for a draw vs SPAIN.

Cannavarro would have stopped that Villa goal that he scored vs SWEDEN.

SO would any good defenseman--

SATRY SWEDEN was able to tie them basically, ITALY will beat them they are champs, SPAIN are not champs
 
Sammy, we are friends, but you tend to exaggerate too much. I will tell you that as a friend. Even in the NBA finals thread in which you first so boldly claimed that Lakers will kick Celts asses, now you're changing tune...nah, just not my style man.

I respect some of your thoughts for sure, I think you're a knowledgeable capper with a variety of sports, but why exaggerate?

You saw a not so strong Spain? Ok, I can deal with that. Even though they were impressive against Russia. Sweden shut them down because Sweden defended with 10 men. But nevertheless, that wasn't Spain's brilliant game.

Let's see how they do tomorrow?

But what did you see about Italy?

Italy were definitely not up to the task on this tournament man. Romania choked against Netherlands and that made Italy go through.

Against France, Italy had all the bounces go their way. Ribery injury, early penalty, early RED CARD (all deserved, but still, come on).

With a man advantage they created but COULD NOT CONVERT. Henry of 2006 would have tied the game up in the 35th minute.

This Henry couldn't. Benzema as well.

But overall I was far from impressed by Italy. And most importantly, Donadoni doesn't have authority, they are ripping him a new one back in the country, trust me.

Italy could eliminate Spain, and they do get stronger as tournament progresses, but I don't agree with a lot of your points there.

:shake:
 
first of, give me the line, then we'll talk

(Italy v Spain).

Without the line, I can't tell you what I'll bet.
 
I didnt watch the Italy game I was watching my Dutch crush the Romanians.

I did not watch them much ITALIA, but I know from a handicapping vantage point and having watched SPAIN that they are very beatable, people are comparing them to Hollland and PORTUGAL?

A team with 2 strikers does not make a good team. Italy is more balanced right through with thier goalie to other players. Spain is overrated bigtime bro.

Italy has not played brilliant yet, but this is what they do, they play thier best in quarterfinal matches. They have no pressure and Spain has all the pressure in the game-- Everyone has written Italia off and Spain has to win for their country, they will choke I am telling you.
 
Donadoni doesn't have authority, they are ripping him a new one back in the country, trust me.

As they should be, that team was anything but prepared for their first game--and even today they didn't look all that in shape.
 
Sammy, this is a new tournament. It may prove right AGAIN for the 10th time that Italy thrives in situations like this and Spain chokes, but it also MAY NOT.

I won't go against the grain for the sake of doing so, but analyzing situations in both teams and having watched all their matches so far, I am not impressed by Italy. Also, they are the defending world champs but that does not mean they have to go far in this tournament.
 
I trust the coach of Italy Houdini or whatever his name is, he knows what he is doing, everyone is underestimating them
 
for a reason Sammy, they have been pretty poor so far, looked slow and disorganized. I have no doubts they will improve, but will it be enough, we'll see.
 
How can pro players not be in shape?

I can't tell you how many times I've asked myself that same question as I've watched a guy wheeze his way across the pitch or up the basketball court.
 
Italy isn't that good this year IMO. Plus now without Pirlo and Gattuso, those 2 are essential, especially Pirlo. But then again, I got Spain to win it all so Im biased.
 
People shouldn't judge a team by past appearances. Look at Germany for instance. They were favorites to win their group and the tournament and they may not even make it past the quarterfinals. I agree that Spain isn't the top dog at the moment in this tournament. I would say Holland, Portugal and then Spain with Germany close by. This game boils down to Italy. I have seen nothing from them so far to make me put my money on them vs. Spain. NOTHING. Buffon, yes is great. Spain will shred that Italian defense like Swiss cheese. Cannivaro is sorely missed in the back. Italy has the aerial attack that Spain will have a hard time defending. Italy will be without two of their best plays in Pirlo and Gattusso. Forget about Italy being the World Cup champs and think about what they have done this tournament. Satyr, hit it right on the nose. Italy should have beaten France 5-0 with them being a man up. They don't have any go to guy up front that can carry the Italian team if they need a goal late. Toni is only good in the air and can't even get off a solid shot on goal. Spain has two proven strikers in Villa and Torres. I think too much credit is being given to Italy that they are just going to snap their fingers and stop Torres and Villa. Not going to be that easy. Has Spain choked year after year in these tournaments? Yes. Donadoni is a moron too who may coach his last game if Italy doesn't advance past the quarters. I think dismissing this Spain team is a mistake. Italy is not a powerhouse by any means. I will agree that if Italy scores a goal, it will be difficult for Spain to score. Italy will lull you to sleep with their play and protect a lead which IMO will hurt them if they play like they did against France when they had the lead. I will be on Spain when my line comes out. Call them overated if you want but I will take the better team (right now) over an Italian squad that has struggled all tournament to find it's form. Spain advances 2-1.
 
Prime example of judging....

Greece...

Who would've thought that they were going to win 4 yrs ago.. All these tournaments are all hit or miss..

GL Everyone
 
I don't rate Gattuso highly at all. If anything I prefer De Rossi over that idiot. De Rossi can actually create plays rather than lose possession.

Pirlo is a major concern as he really suits the Azzuri style of play. He's not a crazy creative midfielder, he's very patient AND his crossing is spectacular. One of the best dead ball specialist in the game, his set piece taking abilities is eventually going to be the death of the Italians.

However, it doesn't matter how beautiful you play the game, if you cannot get the result then who cares? The Spaniards could very well struggle in the back line. I don't know why people consistently rate that defense solid. Puyol and Marchena do not have the patient mentality of world class defenders such as Ferdinand, Vidic, Cannavaro. Those 2 are animals and can easily get hot tempered. DOn't get me wrong, they are both extremely physical but they often over commit themselves and leave the back line empty. This is more of an attacking defensive line that can either kill the opposition or be killed. Ramos and Capdevila are both attacking full backs, they aren't necessarily the best defensive players either. Midfield wise, the Spaniards are full of skill but man are they tiny. Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc are not big players and if they get bullied around they will get frustrated. This is where a player such as an Albelda or Baraja would be missed, they play very well as a holding midfielder, but so far Marcos Senna has done a good job, however he's starting to venture out too far at times.

Attacking wise, no denying Spain's quality. Villa and Torres have significantly improved and you can see they really enjoy and live off each other's ability. Both have pace, patience and high finishing abilities.
The Azzuri on the other hand are still a little out there with the attack. Nothing too fancy, again they get the job done. Who cares if Italy should of beaten France 5-0....do they really care? All they needed was a win and that's that. They don't care if we bet on them, they don't care if they win only 1-0 or an ugly scoreline, for them a victory is a victory.
Donadoni maybe a moron but so is Aragones. Both men are going to be either fired or leave their post this season. Even if Donadoni miraculously wins the EURO, the press will be on his case to leave. Aragones has already been contacted by numerous of clubs to join their managerial ranks. This game seems to be more of that typical extra time game.
 
Toronto_Mike said:
I don't rate Gattuso highly at all. If anything I prefer De Rossi over that idiot. De Rossi can actually create plays rather than lose possession.

Pirlo is a major concern as he really suits the Azzuri style of play. He's not a crazy creative midfielder, he's very patient AND his crossing is spectacular. One of the best dead ball specialist in the game, his set piece taking abilities is eventually going to be the death of the Italians.

However, it doesn't matter how beautiful you play the game, if you cannot get the result then who cares? The Spaniards could very well struggle in the back line. I don't know why people consistently rate that defense solid. Puyol and Marchena do not have the patient mentality of world class defenders such as Ferdinand, Vidic, Cannavaro. Those 2 are animals and can easily get hot tempered. DOn't get me wrong, they are both extremely physical but they often over commit themselves and leave the back line empty. This is more of an attacking defensive line that can either kill the opposition or be killed. Ramos and Capdevila are both attacking full backs, they aren't necessarily the best defensive players either. Midfield wise, the Spaniards are full of skill but man are they tiny. Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc are not big players and if they get bullied around they will get frustrated. This is where a player such as an Albelda or Baraja would be missed, they play very well as a holding midfielder, but so far Marcos Senna has done a good job, however he's starting to venture out too far at times.

Attacking wise, no denying Spain's quality. Villa and Torres have significantly improved and you can see they really enjoy and live off each other's ability. Both have pace, patience and high finishing abilities.
The Azzuri on the other hand are still a little out there with the attack. Nothing too fancy, again they get the job done. Who cares if Italy should of beaten France 5-0....do they really care? All they needed was a win and that's that. They don't care if we bet on them, they don't care if they win only 1-0 or an ugly scoreline, for them a victory is a victory.
Donadoni maybe a moron but so is Aragones. Both men are going to be either fired or leave their post this season. Even if Donadoni miraculously wins the EURO, the press will be on his case to leave. Aragones has already been contacted by numerous of clubs to join their managerial ranks. This game seems to be more of that typical extra time game.
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Italy may not have cared to win by a 5-0 score nor did I (with the exception of my over not hitting lol) but it showed the major flaws they have. They can't finish a team off. Let Spain hang around and there might be a different result. Spain is better than France. France still played with heart and was inches away from making that a game even with 10 men. The free kick Italy scored on was a deflection but a goal is a goal. Bottom line: Italy doesn't impress me at all and for those that are just writing off the Spaniards with another early exit is wrong. For those to think that Italy will hold off the talented Spanish attack for 90 + minutes is wrong. Spanish defense is not great at all but Italy's offense isn't much to brag about either.
 
What up guys....had to jump in on this one.....

SPAIN traditionally is known for choking when it counts but I think the argument can be made that this is by far the best that they have looked in recent years. I think the Dutch in are a similiar boat themselves.

I am a pretty big Italian soccer supporter but I have a very bad feeling about this game. With Gattuso and Pirlo both not playing I beleive the Italians are in for a very long game. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned again the fact that Italy is also missing Cannavarro in the back (arguably the best defender in the world). I don't care what anyone says - this loss is completely detrimental to the Italian squad. No one else on their team can duplicated his talent, intensity or level or play. As a result, there defense had weakened tremendously. They are still reasonablely strong in the mid; but up front is a mess in my opionion. Luca Toni is completely overrated. If the ball is not placed perfectly at his feet he simply can't make a play. I don't hate the guy but he really hasn't done a whole lot for this squad.

I apologise to all my Italian bretheren but I honestly beleive SPAIN will advance handily. Call 3-0 or 4-1.

Cheers.
 
AgainstThePublic said:
Italy may not have cared to win by a 5-0 score nor did I (with the exception of my over not hitting lol) but it showed the major flaws they have. They can't finish a team off. Let Spain hang around and there might be a different result. Spain is better than France. France still played with heart and was inches away from making that a game even with 10 men. The free kick Italy scored on was a deflection but a goal is a goal. Bottom line: Italy doesn't impress me at all and for those that are just writing off the Spaniards with another early exit is wrong. For those to think that Italy will hold off the talented Spanish attack for 90 + minutes is wrong. Spanish defense is not great at all but Italy's offense isn't much to brag about either.
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I've been supporting Spain for years now and until they prove to me they can cast aside that "Underachiever" tag then I still believe the Italians will win. The Italians rarely will finish off an opponent. It's not the way the have traditionally played. Why do you think a lot of people don't like the Azzurri? They just don't play attractive football and for the most part continue to squeek through and that frustrates a lot of people. All the Italians need one shot one goal. They are just like Tiger Woods, you give them a goal lead.....and rest assure they'll be more than happy to take that lead and hold it. They are very very good at doing that. If this game is still tied at half time....the Italians are playing the game they want. The Spaniards have to play with pace, if they play possession football, they will be overwhelmed. In terms of discipline....both teams can be headcases, but I think the Italian midfield wins the battle. Offensively, the Spaniards get the nod, defensively....i'll go with the traditional Italians and of course we can't make any negative notes on Buffon or Casillas.
I am hoping for an entertaining game, but whenever the Italians play....god forbid you can see at least 15mins of something interesting.
I am hoping for a Spanish victory but gut tells me Italy takes it.
 
The_HAMMER said:
What up guys....had to jump in on this one.....

SPAIN traditionally is known for choking when it counts but I think the argument can be made that this is by far the best that they have looked in recent years. I think the Dutch in are a similiar boat themselves.

I am a pretty big Italian soccer supporter but I have a very bad feeling about this game. With Gattuso and Pirlo both not playing I beleive the Italians are in for a very long game. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned again the fact that Italy is also missing Cannavarro in the back (arguably the best defender in the world). I don't care what anyone says - this loss is completely detrimental to the Italian squad. No one else on their team can duplicated his talent, intensity or level or play. As a result, there defense had weakened tremendously. They are still reasonablely strong in the mid; but up front is a mess in my opionion. Luca Toni is completely overrated. If the ball is not placed perfectly at his feet he simply can't make a play. I don't hate the guy but he really hasn't done a whole lot for this squad.

I apologise to all my Italian bretheren but I honestly beleive SPAIN will advance handily. Call 3-0 or 4-1.

Cheers.
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I agree 100%. I did mention in my post about Cannivaro being sorely missed. :cheers:
 
Toronto_Mike said:
I've been supporting Spain for years now and until they prove to me they can cast aside that "Underachiever" tag then I still believe the Italians will win. The Italians rarely will finish off an opponent. It's not the way the have traditionally played. Why do you think a lot of people don't like the Azzurri? They just don't play attractive football and for the most part continue to squeek through and that frustrates a lot of people. All the Italians need one shot one goal. They are just like Tiger Woods, you give them a goal lead.....and rest assure they'll be more than happy to take that lead and hold it. They are very very good at doing that. If this game is still tied at half time....the Italians are playing the game they want. The Spaniards have to play with pace, if they play possession football, they will be overwhelmed. In terms of discipline....both teams can be headcases, but I think the Italian midfield wins the battle. Offensively, the Spaniards get the nod, defensively....i'll go with the traditional Italians and of course we can't make any negative notes on Buffon or Casillas.
I am hoping for an entertaining game, but whenever the Italians play....god forbid you can see at least 15mins of something interesting.
I am hoping for a Spanish victory but gut tells me Italy takes it.
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Great post. We will see in a few days. :shake:
 
The_HAMMER said:
What up guys....had to jump in on this one.....

SPAIN traditionally is known for choking when it counts but I think the argument can be made that this is by far the best that they have looked in recent years. I think the Dutch in are a similiar boat themselves.

I am a pretty big Italian soccer supporter but I have a very bad feeling about this game. With Gattuso and Pirlo both not playing I beleive the Italians are in for a very long game. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned again the fact that Italy is also missing Cannavarro in the back (arguably the best defender in the world). I don't care what anyone says - this loss is completely detrimental to the Italian squad. No one else on their team can duplicated his talent, intensity or level or play. As a result, there defense had weakened tremendously. They are still reasonablely strong in the mid; but up front is a mess in my opionion. Luca Toni is completely overrated. If the ball is not placed perfectly at his feet he simply can't make a play. I don't hate the guy but he really hasn't done a whole lot for this squad.

I apologise to all my Italian bretheren but I honestly beleive SPAIN will advance handily. Call 3-0 or 4-1.

Cheers.
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I wouldn't consider him to be the best defender in the World but I would consider him to be Italy's best. He is rather small for a Centre Back but what is most important is his command, experience and leadership. Other than Cannavaro, the Azzuri does not even have a very stable Centre Back. The Matrix is a complete idiot who is out there to hurt most people. But Cannavaro has the same effect John Terry has on Chelsea. The quality, composure and leadership he brings is irreplaceable. Buffon is going to have a lot of work to do, as the Spaniards do have a lot of players who can drive the ball well with distance, and if Buffon does not clear it appropriately, Villa and Torres are more than capable of finishing off. What I would hate to see if Italy has one shot and scores....I don't know I just have this sense they will figure stuff out and do that, drain the Spaniards, frustrate them and get them off a set piece.
 
Toronto_Mike said:
I wouldn't consider him to be the best defender in the World but I would consider him to be Italy's best. He is rather small for a Centre Back but what is most important is his command, experience and leadership. Other than Cannavaro, the Azzuri does not even have a very stable Centre Back. The Matrix is a complete idiot who is out there to hurt most people. But Cannavaro has the same effect John Terry has on Chelsea. The quality, composure and leadership he brings is irreplaceable. Buffon is going to have a lot of work to do, as the Spaniards do have a lot of players who can drive the ball well with distance, and if Buffon does not clear it appropriately, Villa and Torres are more than capable of finishing off. What I would hate to see if Italy has one shot and scores....I don't know I just have this sense they will figure stuff out and do that, drain the Spaniards, frustrate them and get them off a set piece.
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Can't disagree with you completely there TM. I know the Italians are force to be reckoned with and they usual go the distance. It's just more of a gut feel but based on their play in the first 3 games and in addition to the key losses, I can only conclude an exit for them.

I hope I'm wrong but there is no reason even remotely small that justiifies a play on them IMO. Spain on the other hand has momentum and all the wheels turning. If they score first, I beleive they will win. GL either way.

:cheers:
 
In playoff matches one thing that will always win is DEFENSE:

Germans won with arguably a more physical Defense. No one like DEFENSE but DEFENSE pays the BILLS:

Portugal was the sexy side- The ferrarri side, VROOM, VROOM, people have dreams of RENALDO scoring all day, which did not happen. In fact he was crying after the match not where you want your money.

Croatia had a ROCK Solid DEFENSE- I thought they could have easily won the game in regulation 1-0 and then in extra time 1-0 due to their great defense. Turkey is something else they have DEFIED odds, no team has ever done what they have done. Turkey has the heart of champions.
But another thing we saw here is that Croatia always plays down to their opponent, so that was the real problem with them, they needed to play a team better than them for them to show up fully.


Germany is just a better side than PORTUGAL? I challenge anyone when has Portugal ever been better than Germany in football? You cant get fooled by the 1st round from any of the teams--

I read a brilliant post at another unnamed forum. It shares a lot of my thoughts on the Spain Italy game--

When has Spain every came through in a big game? They have choked every single time in big games? Now people will remember the speedsters in TORRES and VILLA, their ferrarri like speed and goals vs great teams like Greece, Sweden and Russia?

THey won but if anything IMO ITALY should be a very very big favorite over SPAIN--

Spain beat Russia without 2 of the top strikers in Arshavin and Pabliochenkov-- SPain barely beat an OLD and WEAK Sweden team, and the third match vs Greece was basically a SUB game, so not much there.

Italy has always been slow starters, but they have done something SPAIN has not done? THEY have actually won on the international LEVEL. THEY have heart, they won the WOrld Cup, finalist at the EURO CUP-

People can argue about SPAIN being different this year just like PORTO was supposed to be but they are not different? Were they supposed to lose to Russia missing 2 top strikers, were they to lose to an OLD sweden team? If Spain was good they would have already had success before on the pitch. There is a reason they dont win, it is coaching, all name players who dont play well and NO HEART-- SPAIN players are weak asses just like POrtugal players, Italy is physical and they at least try to win for their country-- There is so much more that everyone is missing with behinds the scenes in soccer. SPain is just not a team capable of winning anything- Thier coach is a real assole he had a fioght with RAMOS the other day--

Italy has owned Spain in international football. TONI is many inches taller than any other SPain player on DEFENSE. SPain has no DEFENSE, all they have is a few offensive players who really didnt do anything special vs SWEDEN or RUSSIA.

The biggest edge that ITALY has now is the suspensions. PIRLO out allows another player who is dying to play for his country to dominate. Just like the Turkey backup goalie came in and played as he was SPIDERMAN jumping everywhere.

Taking the best goalie in the world in BUFFON also, he comes up huge in clutch situations. WHen he made that Save vs ROmania anyone could tell
Italy is going to the finals again or close.

The better team on the pitch wins, I know Germany was the better team than Portugal and a smart soccer fan would have made a killing there, because the results was so predictable--

Croatia was better but got burned, Turkey deserves it though they are heroes--

In betting when I can get the better defensive team at + money to advance, and the world cup champs with a history of playing well in these tournies it is gimmee. Also TONI if he converts would have more goals than any other players in the tourny combined.

I really think Spain has no resolve and is a mess. This is not a team IMO that deserves to be favored here. If this goes to penailtes huge edge ITALY, I know spanish players will be nervious and miss and kick it over the net--

"THe more things change the more things stay the same" Italy owns Spain and will continue to own them as I dont see after 1 round that SPAIN all of sudden is a great team.

Oh I forgot they have a guy named VILLA, he runs a 2.9 second 40 yard dash and is unstoppable as he already scored 4 goals. They have a guy named TORRES who is also fast and has a rocket shot.. Too bad for them these 2 guys will sell tickets for the fans while Italy's Defense and team concept will see them go to the next round.

Perhaps the #1 reason SPAIN loses every year is that they are not mentally strong players- This is confirmed, Renaldo is the same way he folds in any big game-- UEFA final this year, he misses his penalty kick he was the only player to miss his KICK? WHY they cannot handle the pressure.

Italians have shown me they can win a penatly shoot out and a tight game. Everyone taking SPAIN is expecting a 3-0 or 2-1 game, games now as we saw with CROATIA are low scoring and 0-0 or 1-1 and have a chance to go to extra time where Spain cannot play that type of game.

Perhaps the most ironic thing is that these Pussy public all offfense teams attract all the money because people think they will score 2 to 3 goals and win 3-1 or 2-0, but the funny thing is that ever single time it is this team that gives up 3 goals and loses, but Oh no one bothered to make sure if they have a DEFENSE because everyone loves offense and betting on OFFENSE.

LEts crush them with Italia, they win this game no doubt

This is one game that I am sure I am on the right side, it is like when you go ALL IN in POker with a pair of ACES- you simply have to bet against these sides as they will not go far..

SPain is blinding people, they have had many great players, but have not won before because it is not just the players, the system, the attitude, the cohesion, the pressure, the defense, the clutch plays, the substitutions, if they were as good as people think they are this year they would have done something in the last few years on an international level. This team is not better, in fact they are very weak on DEFENSE, they allowed GREECE To score their only goal on them, they allowed SWEDEN to score on them, they played 2 of the worst attacking teams in this tourny and played RUSSIA who still scored 1 on them but was without top 2 strikers.


The biggest reason ITALY will win is look at their goalie? He is a class act he is a great man. Anyone see Portugal after Germans scored their first goal they were finger pointing trying to blame each other. RIght at that moment i threw a glass at the wall and broke it as I knew I bet on a bunch of kids out there with no resolve and no CHARACTER--

ITALY expects to win and plays UNITED as one-- SPAIN if down will start arguing and finger pointing, SPANISH TEMPER-- ever heard of that-- THis team plays as individuals not as a team, this is why they never win.

WHen Italy scored on the PK vs FRANCE watch teh ITALY goalie, that is the emotion you need from a goalie in a tourny---

WHen Spain can prove they can do that I will consider taking them, football is football, but there is so much more to winning a football game on the pitch--

If no one believes this look at TURKY they have been outplayed but refuse to DIE as they are playing like they are playing for their lives and their country-- Spain is content with LOSING:

ITALY is not and they will show it beating Spain.
 
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IF anyone really think TORRES cares about this game they better get their head checked. Renaldo, Torres, guys like this young guns come up flat in big games-- They have so much pussy and other things on their mind,

Italy I know they are focussed on football, as is proven by the fact they get stronger as the tourny progresses.

Spain has already won in their minds as they won their GROUP--

Italy doesent give a fuck about the Group they want the EURO CUP--

That is the difference between these 2 teams, it is so obvious
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
IF anyone really think TORRES cares about this game they better get their head checked. Renaldo, Torres, guys like this young guns come up flat in big games-- They have so much pussy and other things on their mind,

Italy I know they are focussed on football, as is proven by the fact they get stronger as the tourny progresses.

Spain has already won in their minds as they won their GROUP--

Italy doesent give a fuck about the Group they want the EURO CUP--

That is the difference between these 2 teams, it is so obvious
Click to expand...

First off it's Ronaldo.

Secondly to claim neither of those 2 show up during big games...questionable. Ronaldo has often choked....but when Man Utd has asked for him to deliver he does.
Torres has been absolutely sensational. Do not tell me this kid has never played a big game. He was captain for Atletico Madrid for pete sakes when he was only 21, he isn't as loud as Ronaldo but he makes his mark.

I don't get it when you say Spain has already won as they won the Group....that makes absolutely no sense to me. So by that theory does that mean the Dutch will lose? I mean it is possible considering the first 2 Q-Finals have seen the group winners lose.

This is a big game, lets put it that way. No denying the amount of talent both squads posses but to say that Spain thinks they've already won? I"m a little unsure about that thought.

Italy does fair better as the tournament progresses. But mind you.....both the Italians and Spaniards have a little bit of molding issues internally as the players are divided by provinces and loyalty to clubs. This is the part of International football that becomes interesting as rival players have to mend with one another.

Anyways, I do like the Italians to win, but not to smash. It won't be easy as this game I expect to see a ton of yellow cards, very physical and lots of battling in the middle. I think the aggressiveness of the Italians will bully the smaller Spaniards.
 
I agree I see a probable 1 goal win by Italy--

With the group stages some teams are giving maximum effort early on thus creating the mirrage that they are much better than they are.

It can only get worse for any team that won their group. Spain is Spain as you said the games get more rough and I cannot ignore the height mismatch and the overall lack of defending by the SPaniards.

Overall I know I am right, VILLA is not playing for Spain he is playing for a contract next year as he wants to strike a huge contract after his play now--

Spain are exactly like Pau GASOL- soft and not willing to do what it takes to win---

Italy is just a better team, they have created this mirrage after the Italy slow start and these supposed suspensions that are best thing to happen to Italy. They have also created this mirrage that SPain is a scoring machine even though they barely beat Greece and needed 92 minutes to beat an old and tired and beaten up SWEDEN team.

We have to identify these easy opportunities before the game, there is no reason why everyone on this board should not have had their biggest bet in years on Germany over Portugal. That game to me was simple Ballack had the look in his eye, he threw I think it was Ferrerra out of the way on a set piece, and basically said BITCH get the fuck out of my way you pussy ass wimp, this ball Is mine and we are winning this game--
IT is the team that wants it more will have a better chance to win. To say SPAIN is on Italy's level is absurd, they are losers, they CHOKE every single time, there is a reason its not just a coincidence that the lose every single tournament. Spanish players just do not understand how to play together and the team concept--
I honestly feel that the teams that have been there consistently will beat the pretender teams like POrtugal-- I think Germans would beat POrtugal about 95% of the time out of sheer will to win. They want the win and will do whatever it takes. This bullshit walking the ball into the net does not win. SPain will find out when they play a team physical that has taller players that they are finished. An early goal and they will fold just like they always go, they have no resolve.



I see the same thing happening to SPain, Italy will just outmuscle them in the air and expects to beat Spain anyway. Spain is happy to win the group, they always win the group they have achieved what they always achieve, mediocrity.

Holland appears to be hungry to do more than just win their group play. The Holland team did beat everyone by a combined score of 9-1-- THey played better teams than SPain did.

Holland also has been underachievers. I can tell you one thing HOLLAND looking good early is a bad thing for them, they will not get any better, they now will find themselves in tigher games. What happens if Holland gets down 1-0???? Do you they know how to play?

I am sure that Holland also will find themselves in tighter games now, they may win but will need to win a different way.


Spain plays as individuals they always have, Italy plays as a team, how else do you get a 1-0- lead and sit on it and try to win, with team defense---- SPAIN has a few great players but that does not beat a better team--

Their achilles heel will be their defense which is not good, and their team who will finger point after an early mistake in the game--


I would never trust a SPAIN team with a single penny--
 
While I generally disagree with Sammy's reasoning, and I do disagree with some of his rationale here, I like Italy to win tomorrow as well.

I know a minimal amount of soccer knowledge, but in a way I feel like that has helped me to bet this tournament. Instead of getting caught up in the talent, the matchups, the schemes, etc, I've looked into things like which team has the most will to win, which team is the most primed to deal with adversity...

The Italians already have dealt with the adversity, they are a side that historically has been a lot more resilient than the Spaniards, etc etc. The suspension of Pirlo does scare me, but I think when it comes down to it, the Italians find a way to get it done Sunday.
 
Sammy, it sounds like you haven't been following the sport for very long.

Calling Casillas a weak goalkeeper was 100% incorrect.

Italy have a nice tradition, but Spain have a lot going for them rite now. They have more skill, are younger, rested, hungrier and more cohesive.

Italy are a patched up side, missing tons of first string players. And defensively, this isn't the same side we saw in 2006. The Dutch proved that already.
 
that injury to cannavarro is really the biggest thing that hurt italy.

having materazzi in there is really showing that that center defense is more then penetratable.... and it really showed in that netherlands game
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
IF anyone really think TORRES cares about this game they better get their head checked. Renaldo, Torres, guys like this young guns come up flat in big games-- They have so much pussy and other things on their mind,
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ man. Just Jesus Christ. What are you saying?
 
Sammy.....honestly man you have to really watch you are saying. I don't know where you are getting these ideas from.

So you are telling me that winning your group is a bad thing? I think everyone in this forum would agree that is a rather foul statement. Of course everyone wants to win every game they play and come out on top to position themselves better.

"Overall I know I am right, VILLA is not playing for Spain he is playing for a contract next year as he wants to strike a huge contract after his play now"

Ok what the hell of a statement is that? Villa has been linked with a major transfer news for the past 2 seasons. Heck did you not pay attention to what he did in World Cup 2006? Come on man, right now he's getting extra attention...why? Well Valencia are in financial turmoil, they've had to go through 3 coaching changes in the past 12 months, from a consistent Champs League performer, now they didn't even make the UEFA Cup. It has been stated that Los Che is out for a clean out. Miguel, Albelda, Baraja, Villa, Silva, Joaquin are just a few of the players that have been touted to exit the club. They do not have to prove themselves for a contract, scouts and clubs KNOW their abilities. You think Nando Torres was playing for a contract for Liverpool? FUCK NO! He was captain of Atletico Madrid, playing for his hometown.....why did he move to Liverpool? Well you'd have to be an idiot not to accept a challenge to play for one of the most prestigious clubs in the world. That is how I'm feeling right now with my hero Gareth Barry. You can only do so much with a club that you have serviced for such a long time...if that club does not progress the direction you had hope, you aren't playing for money you are playing for glory.
 
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