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ontime23
Guest
Wake -2.5 and 44 total
Let's look at this game thoroughly.
Let's look at this game thoroughly.
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ontime23
Guest
I want G Man, Sportsnut, Fondy, BAR, and all the vets to comment as well
Quit being Anti Thread Social...............
Quit being Anti Thread Social...............
wizardofodd
Resident Newlywed
wednesday night right??
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ontime23
Guest
Tonight is the DEAD NITE, I wish they would of made the LAD/Phi play 2nite
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ontime23
Guest
Clemson (3-2) at Wake Forest (3-1), 7:30 EST, ESPN, Thursday, October 9
Why to watch: Although Clemson’s loss to Maryland and Wake’s stumble versus Navy has robbed this game of some of its appeal, it’ll still have a huge bearing on the battle in the ACC Atlantic. The Demon Deacons were looking like the frontrunner in the conference before turning the ball over six times in an uncharacteristically sloppy performance against the Midshipmen. They still might be the team to beat in the ACC, but to earn that title, they’ll have to avoid a second loss in-a-row. Clemson has been one of the biggest disappointments of the first half, free-falling from a No. 9 preseason ranking to No. 39 in the latest Coaches poll. Any hopes that the Tigers had regrouped from their opening day loss to Alabama were squashed at home by the Terrapins. Their margin for error dissipating quickly, Clemson and Tommy Bowden have to have this game to remain viable in the league race.
Why Clemson might win: Wake Forest’s problems on offense will continue against a very talented Clemson defense. The Deacon running game, long a staple under Jim Grobe, has disappeared this fall, slipping to 112<SUP>th</SUP> in the country. The retooled offensive line has yet to gel, allowing more sacks than any unit in the league and failing to open holes for Josh Adams and Brandon Pendergrass. When Riley Skinner had to throw against Navy, he was picked off a career-high four times. The Tigers will be a much tougher challenge, bolstered up front by Dorell Scott and Jarvis Jenkins, and in the secondary with Michael Hamlin and Crezdon Butler.
Why Wake Forest might win: Clemson was so good on offense last year because it had balance and was unpredictable. This year? Not so much. Sure, the Tigers can still run it with James Davis and C.J. Spiller, but QB Cullen Harper has been an enigma. He’s thrown just three touchdown passes to five interceptions, creating a grassroots movement for backup Willy Korn to get his chance. For now, Bowden will stick with Harper, who’ll try to avoid Deacon pick-pockets Alphonso Smith and Kevin Patterson. Without that threat at quarterback, Clemson has averaged just 18 points in three games with FCS opponents.
Who to watch: Clemson DE Ricky Sapp is going to present serious problems for that suspect Wake Forest offensive line. In his most extensive action since injuring his knee in the opener, he schooled the veteran Maryland tackles for three tackles for loss and a bunch of hurries. If the Deacons don’t double him Thursday night, he’s got the speed around the edge to make Skinner’s life miserable.
What will happen: Don’t bother trying to get a good read on Clemson. It’s bound to make you look foolish. Just when it looks like the Tigers have reached bottom, they’re capable of delivering a complete game. This is one of those cases. Unless it can force a bunch of turnovers, Wake Forest just isn’t the same team when the offensive line is underperforming and the running game is stuck in neutral. Clemson will overwhelm the Deacon front with a straight-up rush and a mix of blitz packages, forcing Skinner out of his comfort zone. Harper won’t be much better, but Davis and Spiller will compensate as the catalysts for a much-needed conference win.
CFN Prediction: Clemson 24 … Wake Forest 20 ... Line: Wake Forest -2.5
Must See Rating: (5 The Girls Next Door: Season 5- 1 2008 Chicago Cub Playoff
Why to watch: Although Clemson’s loss to Maryland and Wake’s stumble versus Navy has robbed this game of some of its appeal, it’ll still have a huge bearing on the battle in the ACC Atlantic. The Demon Deacons were looking like the frontrunner in the conference before turning the ball over six times in an uncharacteristically sloppy performance against the Midshipmen. They still might be the team to beat in the ACC, but to earn that title, they’ll have to avoid a second loss in-a-row. Clemson has been one of the biggest disappointments of the first half, free-falling from a No. 9 preseason ranking to No. 39 in the latest Coaches poll. Any hopes that the Tigers had regrouped from their opening day loss to Alabama were squashed at home by the Terrapins. Their margin for error dissipating quickly, Clemson and Tommy Bowden have to have this game to remain viable in the league race.
Why Clemson might win: Wake Forest’s problems on offense will continue against a very talented Clemson defense. The Deacon running game, long a staple under Jim Grobe, has disappeared this fall, slipping to 112<SUP>th</SUP> in the country. The retooled offensive line has yet to gel, allowing more sacks than any unit in the league and failing to open holes for Josh Adams and Brandon Pendergrass. When Riley Skinner had to throw against Navy, he was picked off a career-high four times. The Tigers will be a much tougher challenge, bolstered up front by Dorell Scott and Jarvis Jenkins, and in the secondary with Michael Hamlin and Crezdon Butler.
Why Wake Forest might win: Clemson was so good on offense last year because it had balance and was unpredictable. This year? Not so much. Sure, the Tigers can still run it with James Davis and C.J. Spiller, but QB Cullen Harper has been an enigma. He’s thrown just three touchdown passes to five interceptions, creating a grassroots movement for backup Willy Korn to get his chance. For now, Bowden will stick with Harper, who’ll try to avoid Deacon pick-pockets Alphonso Smith and Kevin Patterson. Without that threat at quarterback, Clemson has averaged just 18 points in three games with FCS opponents.
Who to watch: Clemson DE Ricky Sapp is going to present serious problems for that suspect Wake Forest offensive line. In his most extensive action since injuring his knee in the opener, he schooled the veteran Maryland tackles for three tackles for loss and a bunch of hurries. If the Deacons don’t double him Thursday night, he’s got the speed around the edge to make Skinner’s life miserable.
What will happen: Don’t bother trying to get a good read on Clemson. It’s bound to make you look foolish. Just when it looks like the Tigers have reached bottom, they’re capable of delivering a complete game. This is one of those cases. Unless it can force a bunch of turnovers, Wake Forest just isn’t the same team when the offensive line is underperforming and the running game is stuck in neutral. Clemson will overwhelm the Deacon front with a straight-up rush and a mix of blitz packages, forcing Skinner out of his comfort zone. Harper won’t be much better, but Davis and Spiller will compensate as the catalysts for a much-needed conference win.
CFN Prediction: Clemson 24 … Wake Forest 20 ... Line: Wake Forest -2.5
Must See Rating: (5 The Girls Next Door: Season 5- 1 2008 Chicago Cub Playoff
LooseOnTheLead
Pretty much a regular
Clemson is an automatic fade whenever they play a decent team..WF more than fits the bill. Lay 'em
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ontime23
Guest
Coach Jim Grobe of Wake Forest has been around too long to expect practice to make his team perfect against Clemson in Thursday's game at BB&T Field.
But he does think that it will make the 21st-ranked Deacons better.
"I couldn't be happier," Grobe said of his team's work since a home loss to Navy on Sept. 27. "We've practiced great. I don't think we could practice any better.
"I wish we could go back and maybe change some things before Navy, but as far as the practices for this one, they could not be better."
Grobe's observation came with a caveat.
"We'll see if that's enough," Grobe said.
Clemson has marred what otherwise have been the two most successful seasons in Wake Forest history. In 2006, the Tigers rallied from a two-touchdown deficit in the fourth quarter to win 27-17. In 2007, they gave the Deacons their only real thumping in a 44-10 romp in Death Valley.
"We went down there last year and got embarrassed," Grobe said of his fifth loss to Clemson in seven games. "They basically owned us."
Offensive guard Russell Nenon said that it was an experience he only wishes he could forget. The Tigers out-gained the Deacons 411 yards to 287, C.J. Spiller returned a kickoff 90 yards for a touchdown, and the game was decided well before halftime.
"Obviously going down to Clemson last year and losing so badly is going to stick in my mind for a long time," Nenon said.
Receiver D.J. Boldin said that the memory of last year's game at Clemson and the more recent bitter loss to Navy made for some heated practices during the off week. The Deacons, after taking Sunday, Monday and Tuesday off last week, practiced in full pads Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
A point of emphasis for offensive coordinator Steed Lobotzke was to improve the rushing attack.
The Deacons, Nenon said, remain convinced that they can run the football better. Wake Forest currently ranks 11th in the ACC with 84.8 rushing yards a game.
"I'm a little sore still," Nenon said. "The intensity just felt like the first day of camp all over again. (Lobotzke) drilled and drilled and drilled and drilled.
"It's every lineman's dream to hear a coach say, ‘We're going to run the ball. We will run the ball.' That's why you play offensive line, just to knock people back and run the ball successfully.
"It's very gratifying to know that Coach Grobe and Coach Lobo still have confidence in us with our past struggles this season."
No personnel changes were made in the line. One possible move had to be shelved when freshman Dennis Godfrey injured his knee in Thursday's practice.
An MRI on Monday revealed no ligament damage, but Grobe said that the swelling in Godfrey's knee might be attributable to cartilage damage.
"It's a foo-foo injury," Grobe said. "Actually he did have some fluid drained off his knee. So it's not total foo-foo. It's semi-foo-foo.
"They're hopeful that after they got the fluid off that he would be able to begin practicing again pretty soon. He really needs it. He's going to be a good player for us, I think, if we can patch him together.
"I think (the offensive line) is his position. I think that's where he needs to be. But he sure needs a lot of practice."
Grobe said that wide receiver Jordan Williams has made a push in recent practices for more playing time. After playing last year in his first season, Williams missed valuable practice time in August with a pulled groin muscle. He has played in two of the four games but has yet to catch a pass.
"He stayed hurt all summer and didn't get any work," Grobe said. "I think he's back to being a little bit focused and more determined to not waste a year of eligibility.
"We'd like to see him get some more work right now."
Grobe confirmed that offensive tackle Joe Birdsong will be eligible for Clemson after he was ejected in the first half against Navy. His stamina should be improved.
"Let me put it this way," Grobe said. "Joe Birdsong is in a lot better condition than he was before he was ejected from the game.
"Joe and I have gotten to know each other much better in the past week."
But he does think that it will make the 21st-ranked Deacons better.
"I couldn't be happier," Grobe said of his team's work since a home loss to Navy on Sept. 27. "We've practiced great. I don't think we could practice any better.
"I wish we could go back and maybe change some things before Navy, but as far as the practices for this one, they could not be better."
Grobe's observation came with a caveat.
"We'll see if that's enough," Grobe said.
Clemson has marred what otherwise have been the two most successful seasons in Wake Forest history. In 2006, the Tigers rallied from a two-touchdown deficit in the fourth quarter to win 27-17. In 2007, they gave the Deacons their only real thumping in a 44-10 romp in Death Valley.
"We went down there last year and got embarrassed," Grobe said of his fifth loss to Clemson in seven games. "They basically owned us."
Offensive guard Russell Nenon said that it was an experience he only wishes he could forget. The Tigers out-gained the Deacons 411 yards to 287, C.J. Spiller returned a kickoff 90 yards for a touchdown, and the game was decided well before halftime.
"Obviously going down to Clemson last year and losing so badly is going to stick in my mind for a long time," Nenon said.
Receiver D.J. Boldin said that the memory of last year's game at Clemson and the more recent bitter loss to Navy made for some heated practices during the off week. The Deacons, after taking Sunday, Monday and Tuesday off last week, practiced in full pads Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
A point of emphasis for offensive coordinator Steed Lobotzke was to improve the rushing attack.
The Deacons, Nenon said, remain convinced that they can run the football better. Wake Forest currently ranks 11th in the ACC with 84.8 rushing yards a game.
"I'm a little sore still," Nenon said. "The intensity just felt like the first day of camp all over again. (Lobotzke) drilled and drilled and drilled and drilled.
"It's every lineman's dream to hear a coach say, ‘We're going to run the ball. We will run the ball.' That's why you play offensive line, just to knock people back and run the ball successfully.
"It's very gratifying to know that Coach Grobe and Coach Lobo still have confidence in us with our past struggles this season."
No personnel changes were made in the line. One possible move had to be shelved when freshman Dennis Godfrey injured his knee in Thursday's practice.
An MRI on Monday revealed no ligament damage, but Grobe said that the swelling in Godfrey's knee might be attributable to cartilage damage.
"It's a foo-foo injury," Grobe said. "Actually he did have some fluid drained off his knee. So it's not total foo-foo. It's semi-foo-foo.
"They're hopeful that after they got the fluid off that he would be able to begin practicing again pretty soon. He really needs it. He's going to be a good player for us, I think, if we can patch him together.
"I think (the offensive line) is his position. I think that's where he needs to be. But he sure needs a lot of practice."
Grobe said that wide receiver Jordan Williams has made a push in recent practices for more playing time. After playing last year in his first season, Williams missed valuable practice time in August with a pulled groin muscle. He has played in two of the four games but has yet to catch a pass.
"He stayed hurt all summer and didn't get any work," Grobe said. "I think he's back to being a little bit focused and more determined to not waste a year of eligibility.
"We'd like to see him get some more work right now."
Grobe confirmed that offensive tackle Joe Birdsong will be eligible for Clemson after he was ejected in the first half against Navy. His stamina should be improved.
"Let me put it this way," Grobe said. "Joe Birdsong is in a lot better condition than he was before he was ejected from the game.
"Joe and I have gotten to know each other much better in the past week."
Clemson as an underdog under coordinators Vic Koenning and Rob Spence. Clearly the results below show that Clemson has significantly underachieved over the past 2 years as they have only been a dog twice in that timespan. They have already lost 2 games as the fav this year. It will be interesting to see if this trend of 8 straight covers as an underdog continues.
2007 +3.5 vs. Florida State = 24-18 Clemson victory
2006 +4 at Florida State = 27-20 Clemson victory
2005 +2.5 vs Texas A&M = 25-24 Clemson victory
+2.5 at Maryland = 28-24 Clemson victory
+7 vs Miami = 30-36 2OT, Clemson loss SU but cover
+4 at NCSU = 31-10 Clemson victory
+2.5 at Ga Tech = 9-10 Clemson loss SU but cover
+1 vs FSU = 35-14 Clemson victory
2007 +3.5 vs. Florida State = 24-18 Clemson victory
2006 +4 at Florida State = 27-20 Clemson victory
2005 +2.5 vs Texas A&M = 25-24 Clemson victory
+2.5 at Maryland = 28-24 Clemson victory
+7 vs Miami = 30-36 2OT, Clemson loss SU but cover
+4 at NCSU = 31-10 Clemson victory
+2.5 at Ga Tech = 9-10 Clemson loss SU but cover
+1 vs FSU = 35-14 Clemson victory
the voice of reason:shake:
ditto
wake looks like the BCS wake of 06, IMO.
theyre going to force turnovers, and theyre going to beat you with defense
this is a clemson team, that in 3 games ( im not counting the SCSU and shitadel games )... against bama-UMD- and NC state
has turned the ball over 7 times in those 3 games....
and 9 times this season overall in 4 games ( not counting SCSU)
wake defense has forced 17 turnovers.
wake offense doesnt even need to show up.
clemson will do what theyve always done in the past in big games, theyll beat themselves
this is a defense that is #2 in pass yards allowed (in a 3 way tie basically with kentucky and GT)... a tenacious defense that is going to bring a lot of pressure and force the opposing QB to make mistakes.
look what they did to ponder and richardson.... that game was a nightmare for the FSU QB's
plus clemson beat the shit outta them last year 44-10, revenge factor in play and wake will be out for blood
theyre going to force turnovers, and theyre going to beat you with defense
this is a clemson team, that in 3 games ( im not counting the SCSU and shitadel games )... against bama-UMD- and NC state
has turned the ball over 7 times in those 3 games....
and 9 times this season overall in 4 games ( not counting SCSU)
wake defense has forced 17 turnovers.
wake offense doesnt even need to show up.
clemson will do what theyve always done in the past in big games, theyll beat themselves
this is a defense that is #2 in pass yards allowed (in a 3 way tie basically with kentucky and GT)... a tenacious defense that is going to bring a lot of pressure and force the opposing QB to make mistakes.
look what they did to ponder and richardson.... that game was a nightmare for the FSU QB's
plus clemson beat the shit outta them last year 44-10, revenge factor in play and wake will be out for blood
redbearde
Pretty much a regular
Agree. This is one of those that Clemson will likely show up to lay a gigantic fucking egg.
If you do play Clemson, play the ML. +115 or +120 for a win is much better than -110 for a 2pt loss.
E.T.G.
One of trus baby mommas
I played Clemson ML +120..............If they were favored in this game on the road, I would not have played them but I will take my shot with +money on the ML. They either win this game SU or they don't cover the 2.5 points so the spread is going to be useless if you like Clemson in my mind?. I think my single biggest worry in this game is that Bowden and company (OC Rob Spence) are terrible with in-game adjustments but without a doubt, Clemson if they stick to a gameplan of running the ball (35x), getting Spiller the ball in space, letting the run-game open up the passing game (Kelley finding the endzone), they will win this game. Both teams are off a bye so it?s a wash. Both teams are coming off bad losses so that is a wash also. I expect this to be a rowdy crowd for Wake on Thursday night but the travel isn?t that far for Clemson so going on the road mid-week doesn?t bother me here that much. This game for me isn?t so much about what Wake is going to do (misdirection crap, good special teams, try not to make mistakes), its about whether or not Clemson is going to beat themselves with poor execution, questionable play calling, and lack of effort. I think if Mr. Tommy Bowden likes coaching in Clemson, he better pull out all the stops to win this game. From what I?ve read on the Clemson site, they took the Maryland loss hard but they seem to have a good focus this week?. I hate betting on Clemson, they stick it to me either way every time but I believe I read somewhere in the last 37 games, Clemson has been an underdog 3 times and they?ve won all 3 SU.
I also lean the over
This game has gone over 5 of the last 6 years. The year it missed, the Over was 44.5 and the score was Clemson 27-17, for a total of 44 points...lost by the hook. I don't see how this one doesn't go over. My honest assessment is that Clemson comes out and finally puts together a complete game. I believe Clemson wins by 10 or so and see a final along the lines of 34-24, 31-21 something like that. If that happens it could be a bettors best dream b/c we could see Clemson laying a TD to GT next week. If this unfolds then I will be on GT ML next weekend. Clemson LBs will match up horribly with the GT offense and Harper won't have any time. I'll get into that more next week. I posted a long writeup about the game in another thread but I like Clemson and the Over. Good luck all.
2 weeks ago I PM'ed counselor that I liked Maryland and the Under.
I had Clemson -20 against NCSU and lost that game so take my thoughts with a grain of salt if you desire.
This game has gone over 5 of the last 6 years. The year it missed, the Over was 44.5 and the score was Clemson 27-17, for a total of 44 points...lost by the hook. I don't see how this one doesn't go over. My honest assessment is that Clemson comes out and finally puts together a complete game. I believe Clemson wins by 10 or so and see a final along the lines of 34-24, 31-21 something like that. If that happens it could be a bettors best dream b/c we could see Clemson laying a TD to GT next week. If this unfolds then I will be on GT ML next weekend. Clemson LBs will match up horribly with the GT offense and Harper won't have any time. I'll get into that more next week. I posted a long writeup about the game in another thread but I like Clemson and the Over. Good luck all.
2 weeks ago I PM'ed counselor that I liked Maryland and the Under.
I had Clemson -20 against NCSU and lost that game so take my thoughts with a grain of salt if you desire.
Great info provided by Dwight and solid post by ETG .
This is one of those games where you feel like once its over you will have either overthought it as Clemson wins or feel tricked because WF wins rather smoothly .
On Wake 's side outside of the Navy game where Skinner had 4 Int's I thought Riley has held up okay . However the running game has been no existant and looks like some of the WR and TE losses that WF had from last season have robbed the offense of it's playmakers . Clearly Swank is one of the best assets a team like this can have . The FSU game probably won by him well and the fact FSU couldnt move the ball that day vs a HS defense . They had just 12 pts and he hit from 48 and 49 those get missed and big field position swing along with the -6 pts .
From my standpoint opener vs baylor doesnt count because it was just a feeling out game for Baylor . Little different dynamic with Griffin running the offense now . So Ole Miss went to WF and went toe to toe with them probably even out playing them some , they did nothing IMO at FSU where when you have 1 team who cant move the ball they simly cant win . Reminded me of the Steeler - Eagle game with the exception that FSU was home but played the role of road Steelers . Well Navy has stolen some games and is getting the breaks now but I think we agree that Navy is very medicore . Again the WF team could not run the ball . Really Navy stole the win vs Rutgers , stole to a degree the win @ WF and definetly stole the game @ AF this weekend. Ole Miss the best of the bunch threw all over them and Miss is a very solid but also very self destructive team . Is Ole Miss better then Clemson ?? Entering the year not so but now are they?? Still Clemson defense I would think grades better then Ole Miss . Back to the navy game while WF gave alo to Navy the Decs didnt exactly earn there points either ...
1st TD - 6plays 16 yds set up by kick return which was actually fumbled then advanced I believe
1st FG- start at Navys 41 yd line great field position obviously . Hit a 36yd pass to the Navy 1 and dont get in though !! Adams loses 4 yds , loses 1 yd then incomplete on 3rd and oal from the 6th !
Last TD - Navy scores quick and with less then 4 minutes the MidShipmen have a 2 TD lead ? Is it suprising that Wake moved the ball given the situation ? To there credit they picked up 71 yds and a TD but the onside didnt work and game was over ..
Much is being made of the Wake turnovers and sloppiness which I dont disagree with since its uncharacteristic . Looking though for all the errors they didnt hand Navy that much on those turnovers or lose much themselves in terms of points . Also WF had some key chances to do something against Navy when they made mistakes and couldnt ...While its crazy the 1st H showed 6 WF possessions and Yes 5 turnovers what did it cost WF besides momentum which is always huge and confidence.
1st turnover an INT on the opening drive was on 3rd down so it was like a bad punt in a sense as Navy started at there oown 49 .(WF was on there own 34 when the INT happened. So they still had to go 51 yds for a TD and while maybe allowing a FG was unavoidable a TD is not guarnateed.
2nd turnover down 14-0 a fumble inside the Navy 25 was costly . Obviously they need to get back in the game and get at least 3 poinst which they would have worst case . Navy just punts though and WF starts at there own 40yd line.
3rd turnover is somewhat costly allowing Navy good field position. Navy at the WF 27 settles for a FG though .
So now 17-0 and after the FG and Wake ball again . Again solid starting field position at the Navy 45 and after picking up some yardage and a 1st down a fumble erases a chance for a last minute TD but definetly 3 points .
So in the 1st H they did hand good field position to Navy twice which resulted in 10 points but they could have escaped allowing only 6 pts IMO as well . They cost themselves at least 2 FGs and maybe more . So it was of great importance in the 1st H that Navy executed and WF continually didnt .
However the 2nd H WF had alot of chances and didnt do much with them. First off they did do well in the rteurn game seemingly starting with good field position due to that and ST. They get the quick score after half to make it 17-7 and you have the entire 2nd H still to play. Then navy punts it back as the WF defense steps up and again WF ball in good field position starting at the Navy 41 but while they drive they also stall at the 6yd line and settle for a FG. Still now 17-10. Again WF D buckles down and real solid field position again for WF at there own 38 while they move the ball they stall at the 38 of Navy and choose to punt . Also though WF was actually 1st and 10 at the 35 but lost 3 yds on a fumble that was recovred and threw 2 incompletes . With Swank would think running on 3rd is always a possibility in that area but also understand how poor they ran it that day . If Wake gets 5 they get to a very makeable 50yd attempt if he gets more then they could kick it or go on 4th . Not 2nd guessing but when your struggling some times I wonder why teams dont take what there opponent will give them. Navy is thinking dont allow the 3rd down conversion and not dont allow 5 yds to give Swank a great shot at putting 3 more up. Anyway down 17-0 they had 3 possessions with the 1st 2 starting at the Navy 40 or closer and the last ending up inside the Navy 40 and yet they couldnt tie it up .
Now 4th Q and a chance still down just 17-10 . Again great defense holds them and Navy punts back to WF with again decent field position at the WF 33. Huge difference in the 3rd Q look at where Navy starts and where WF starts . Easy to say the Navy offense did nothing and WF defense played well but also field position played a very huge role in that I think. Anyway WF gets into Navy territory AGAIN. Aftera penalty have 1st and 5 at the Navy 48 which they go 3 yds , 1 yd and no gain rather then go for it which given how the defense has played is understandable they punt . Navy pinned at the 4 .
Of course great field position results when WF holds them . Start 1st and 10 at Navy 37 in the 4th Q at home of a 7 pt game . They move the ball and on 3rd and 1 get s 2yds but a hold is called moving it back to 3rd and 39 at the 36 yd line . Of course Incomplete and a great punt again as Navy pinned at the 1 yd line(also Navy penalty on the play) .
Anyway 9 and change to play you have Navy pinned at the 1 time for the defense to do its thing and to there credit nothing but 4 straight punst and three and outs ...
navy gets 5 on 1st down then 3 on 2nd down. Now 3rd and 2 at the 9 yd line obviously crucial and Navy breaks a 39 yd run to midfield. Somewhat backbreaking but stil &;30 to play and you just nned to get the ball back . Which they had Navy 3rd and 2 at the WF 44 and didnt stop them . However the next play from WFs 40 they get a fumble and start fresh.
So 6 to play still 17-10 and Wakes ball on there 45 yd line. On 2nd down hit a big play for 14 yds to the Navy 40 with 5:30 to play . Then next play a bad toss and INT for Skinner ....
Now 1st down and Navy gets the ole momentum run for 39 yards and winds up in a few plays geting the quick TD to ice it .....
Point of that is for all the BS in the 1st H. They had about as many chances as one could possibly get to take the gam eor at least tie it up and repeatedly failed to.
Once they made the game 17-7 they had 5 possesions in a row with the ball inside the Navy 40 and managed just 3 pts on the 1st of those possessions . They then had 4 straight possessions downa TD where they started around teh Navy or moved to the Navy 40 and couldnt score . Its understandable with a sloppy 1st H they cant cover a big spread or win comfortable but a good team given that many opps at home vs a weaker opponent should be able to at least win that game . Negative that they couldnt IMO.
So they failed to execute and lost SU but it was there slightily better execution @ FSU and vs Miss that led them to narrow wins . So is the a clear syptom of the WF team ? Every game is gonna be close vs any type of mid level team or better ? Clearly Clemson is mid level even with its probelms but also probably with FSU the toughest defense WF has faced. Ole Miss started the 2nd with consecutive INT the 2nd of which cost them a FG and the 1st sort of killing a decent drive . They also had the lead with 1 minute left and didnt hold it . Credit to Skinner and Co on the comeback though but WF also didnt have any turnovers and that was the difference in what was a 2pt game.....
Seems like Boldin is the only kid making plays making Swank and Riley the 2nd and 3rd most important players on the offense as no one else seems to be contributing . The game @ WF the Deacons definetly outplayed FSU but they also didnt make plays when they could have buried FSU. Just 3-0 WF at half both teams missed FG . WF did get there FG thanks to a turnover . Also they missed 2 chances with the ball near or inside the red zone of FSU with a FG miss and INT plus a TOD at the FSU 20. ANyway the WF offense did better in the 3rd Q and exchanged FGs with eachother for a bit to go 9-3 WF and then Swank missed a long one. Then FSu started to drive and on 2nd and 10 from teh WF 41 get 5 yds which would have been 3rd and 5 from teh 36 and fumble it away.....Anyway the FSU defenses hold and gets the back with decent field position. Again the move it up field and take it to the WF 36 but its 4th and 3 and chose to pass and it goes INC.
So again alarming that FSU is handing them game and they couldnt take advantage due to sloppiness . They did have 3 missed FGs as well and some turnovers plus a TOD . FSU had 2 INts , fumble missed FG 1st H and then a 4th Q that read fumble , TOD , INT , INT , INT in what was basically a 6 pt game till the 2 minute mark and WF even missed a chip FG that would have made it 9 pts before it was actually a tad later .
Clemson side --
maryland loss isnt that bad not as bad as the Navyloss by WF IMO . Clemson played a very good 1st H on offense and led 17-6 but they had 1 turnover that gave the terps 3 points . That along with having the ball at the maryland 43 on 1st and 10 up 17-6 with about 5 to go before half and wind up punting not extending there lead played crucial in keeping Maryland around.
That seemed to what happened as Clemson just seemed to be 1 play and 1 score from icing it and couldnt do it . The 2nd H starts with them inside the Maryland 40 and have 2nd and 3 but get a penalty to make it 2nd and 8 at the 45 then just 1 yd gained and the INC leads to a punt .....then bey rips off a 75yd 1st down run from his own 20 and Terps get a TD to get it to 17-13.
Then early 4th Q after clemson and Maryland had exchange some punts and Tigers showed no pulse good field position for maryland at the Clemson 45 ended it all . Turner hit some passes and was 2nd and 10 at the 35 before he delibered some nice gainers for 10+ and 20+ that took it to the 1 and Maryland punche dit for the lead 20-17. Still 10 to play Clemson gets the ball back and moves it up field but at midfield on a 2nd and 10 7yd run they get a 15 yd penalty to put it 3rd and 18 form there own 42 but get 17yds on 3rd down . Now 4th and 1 at the Maryland 41 they cant get the 1 yd and TOD.
Clemson vs NCST is an odd game . While it doesnt look like that impressive really the game went as expected but couple big playshad an effect on the scoring . Harper those a pick 6 to start the game for one. However the Clemson puts up 17 pts on 5 possessions to close the 1st H and shuts down NCST . Which the Pack defense was playing well early this season. Which then in the 3rd Qthe Clemson defense didnt look so good . Ncst drove it down to open the 3rd but settled for a short FG missing it and getting nothing on a 12 play 68yd drive that ended inside the 10yd. Now Clemson takes it from teh 20 and goes quickly into NCST territory when Harper after an 8yd pickup to the State22 fumbles . Again State takes it inide the 10 after starting at there 22 yd line but agin falters and this time gets 3 pts. the Clemson defense did give NCST some help with some 15 yd penalties on these drives. Good field position near midfield and Clemson started driving again but a silly penalty put them in 2nd and 15 at the 26 rather then 2nd and 5 at the 16 resulting ion 3 points but strange they didnt try to run for it on 3rd and 2 IMO. So 20-9 now State gets bakc moves it some but is picked off but Clemson near its own 5 . They take it the distance 95 yds and get the icing TD to go up 27-9. The game ended when NCS moved the ball into CLemson territory but Beck was picked off and returned 71 yds the other way to about the 5 and the clock ran out .....
Couple little things and Clemson gets 35+ points and about 10 pts is what an offense should have scored but Wolfpack did move the ball on there 4 touches in the 2nd H and should have managed 9-13 pts ...
The big scare for me with Clemson is how they were owned by Bama . Bama is one of the better teams in the nation especially with that defense . They defense and ST seems to continuallt set them up with good field position which helps them build leads and make life even tougher opponents . also Clemson did defense did allow some long grind drives. really nothing to take from that game other Bama started quick as Harper again started with a 1st possession INT.
Truth is neither team is doing much to get excited about . WF could have lost its past 3 games and Maryland really only played badly enough to lose vs Bama and allowed Maryland to hang around more then getting beat but the same could be said for WF @ FSU they allowed FSU to hang around but Seminoles couldnt make the plays when given 2 chances down 9-3 and inside the opposing 35 ...
Its obviois whoever makes less mistakes wins here . Whats not obvious is does CLemson nee a road game to get away from the pressure ? Does playing its 1st road game after 5 weeks at home put them in position for another slow start ? remember Harper opening INTs vs NCState and Bama which led to them trailing .
Clemson is going to need big games from there RB duo if Harper continues to play like he has = inconsistent and more negatively then positive things have occurred . Think 2 picks vs SC State ......
""Maryland might’ve been down even more if not for Clemson’s first-half errors.
Jacoby Ford fumbled a punt on one series, while Harper’s backward pass to Aaron Kelly was knocked down and recovered by the Terps’ Adrian Moten.
Spiller had a 59-yard TD run in the third quarter called back on Kelly’s hold.
Harper also threw his fifth interception of the season, one shy of the six he had all last year"""
I keep looking at last years game 44-10 Clemson win and ask how the gap has narrowed when Moore , Andrews and the TE are gone from Wake but Clemson offense remains .
The fact that WF is ranked and not Clemson . Not creating the unranked ho
Maryland might’ve been down even more if not for Clemson’s first-half errors.
Jacoby Ford fumbled a punt on one series, while Harper’s backward pass to Aaron Kelly was knocked down and recovered by the Terps’ Adrian Moten.
Spiller had a 59-yard TD run in the third quarter called back on Kelly’s hold.
Harper also threw his fifth interception of the season, one shy of the six he had all last yearme fav vs ranked road foe situation probably would make me comfortable taking Clemson here .
I am just not sold on WF last 3 games at all. Neither offense is driving the ball much especially WF last 2 games . The amount of turnovers are crazy for them.
At home 6 turnovers vs Navy and 3 missed Fgs , 2fumbles and TOD @ FSU while they recieved 9 of those miscues vs FSU and won by 9 only !
Right now nothing strong but if your gonna give me FG here with Clemson I'll take . They have more talent and neither team is playing well and woul dguess Clemson is about 5 or 6 pts stronger on a neutral field . Just remeber my 1st sentence ( 3hours ago ....) its one of those games you probably wind up kicking yourself on....:36_11_6:
Really the fact WF has not been able to run the ball vs anyone is a huge issue IMO The fact WF has been beaten by Ole Miss through the air and Navy (obviously ) on the ground just makes me feel that with 2 solid RBs and a veteran QB with them they have the upperhand . Also the fact WF is ranked and Clemson is not may put some people on WF . Also Clemson 2 losses now and cant afford number three this early. Now or never for them. They host GTech after this game whose defense has been very sick then play at BC and at FSU winnable but tough games , host Duke , @ UVa and host Socar .....they take this and coud run the slate to SoCar just playing to there abilities alone IMO......Also like the OL of Clemson better as well . Clemson has beaten IMO better WF teams the opast 2 years as well ....
As of now Clemson looking at Clemson +3 or +3.5 if I am lucky and agin while I like the ML really not interested in +140 or less as opposed to +3 or 3.5 .......lean UNDER think 23-14 maybe ....Clemson and under teaser ?:cheers:
GL
This is one of those games where you feel like once its over you will have either overthought it as Clemson wins or feel tricked because WF wins rather smoothly .
On Wake 's side outside of the Navy game where Skinner had 4 Int's I thought Riley has held up okay . However the running game has been no existant and looks like some of the WR and TE losses that WF had from last season have robbed the offense of it's playmakers . Clearly Swank is one of the best assets a team like this can have . The FSU game probably won by him well and the fact FSU couldnt move the ball that day vs a HS defense . They had just 12 pts and he hit from 48 and 49 those get missed and big field position swing along with the -6 pts .
From my standpoint opener vs baylor doesnt count because it was just a feeling out game for Baylor . Little different dynamic with Griffin running the offense now . So Ole Miss went to WF and went toe to toe with them probably even out playing them some , they did nothing IMO at FSU where when you have 1 team who cant move the ball they simly cant win . Reminded me of the Steeler - Eagle game with the exception that FSU was home but played the role of road Steelers . Well Navy has stolen some games and is getting the breaks now but I think we agree that Navy is very medicore . Again the WF team could not run the ball . Really Navy stole the win vs Rutgers , stole to a degree the win @ WF and definetly stole the game @ AF this weekend. Ole Miss the best of the bunch threw all over them and Miss is a very solid but also very self destructive team . Is Ole Miss better then Clemson ?? Entering the year not so but now are they?? Still Clemson defense I would think grades better then Ole Miss . Back to the navy game while WF gave alo to Navy the Decs didnt exactly earn there points either ...
1st TD - 6plays 16 yds set up by kick return which was actually fumbled then advanced I believe
1st FG- start at Navys 41 yd line great field position obviously . Hit a 36yd pass to the Navy 1 and dont get in though !! Adams loses 4 yds , loses 1 yd then incomplete on 3rd and oal from the 6th !
Last TD - Navy scores quick and with less then 4 minutes the MidShipmen have a 2 TD lead ? Is it suprising that Wake moved the ball given the situation ? To there credit they picked up 71 yds and a TD but the onside didnt work and game was over ..
Much is being made of the Wake turnovers and sloppiness which I dont disagree with since its uncharacteristic . Looking though for all the errors they didnt hand Navy that much on those turnovers or lose much themselves in terms of points . Also WF had some key chances to do something against Navy when they made mistakes and couldnt ...While its crazy the 1st H showed 6 WF possessions and Yes 5 turnovers what did it cost WF besides momentum which is always huge and confidence.
1st turnover an INT on the opening drive was on 3rd down so it was like a bad punt in a sense as Navy started at there oown 49 .(WF was on there own 34 when the INT happened. So they still had to go 51 yds for a TD and while maybe allowing a FG was unavoidable a TD is not guarnateed.
2nd turnover down 14-0 a fumble inside the Navy 25 was costly . Obviously they need to get back in the game and get at least 3 poinst which they would have worst case . Navy just punts though and WF starts at there own 40yd line.
3rd turnover is somewhat costly allowing Navy good field position. Navy at the WF 27 settles for a FG though .
So now 17-0 and after the FG and Wake ball again . Again solid starting field position at the Navy 45 and after picking up some yardage and a 1st down a fumble erases a chance for a last minute TD but definetly 3 points .
So in the 1st H they did hand good field position to Navy twice which resulted in 10 points but they could have escaped allowing only 6 pts IMO as well . They cost themselves at least 2 FGs and maybe more . So it was of great importance in the 1st H that Navy executed and WF continually didnt .
However the 2nd H WF had alot of chances and didnt do much with them. First off they did do well in the rteurn game seemingly starting with good field position due to that and ST. They get the quick score after half to make it 17-7 and you have the entire 2nd H still to play. Then navy punts it back as the WF defense steps up and again WF ball in good field position starting at the Navy 41 but while they drive they also stall at the 6yd line and settle for a FG. Still now 17-10. Again WF D buckles down and real solid field position again for WF at there own 38 while they move the ball they stall at the 38 of Navy and choose to punt . Also though WF was actually 1st and 10 at the 35 but lost 3 yds on a fumble that was recovred and threw 2 incompletes . With Swank would think running on 3rd is always a possibility in that area but also understand how poor they ran it that day . If Wake gets 5 they get to a very makeable 50yd attempt if he gets more then they could kick it or go on 4th . Not 2nd guessing but when your struggling some times I wonder why teams dont take what there opponent will give them. Navy is thinking dont allow the 3rd down conversion and not dont allow 5 yds to give Swank a great shot at putting 3 more up. Anyway down 17-0 they had 3 possessions with the 1st 2 starting at the Navy 40 or closer and the last ending up inside the Navy 40 and yet they couldnt tie it up .
Now 4th Q and a chance still down just 17-10 . Again great defense holds them and Navy punts back to WF with again decent field position at the WF 33. Huge difference in the 3rd Q look at where Navy starts and where WF starts . Easy to say the Navy offense did nothing and WF defense played well but also field position played a very huge role in that I think. Anyway WF gets into Navy territory AGAIN. Aftera penalty have 1st and 5 at the Navy 48 which they go 3 yds , 1 yd and no gain rather then go for it which given how the defense has played is understandable they punt . Navy pinned at the 4 .
Of course great field position results when WF holds them . Start 1st and 10 at Navy 37 in the 4th Q at home of a 7 pt game . They move the ball and on 3rd and 1 get s 2yds but a hold is called moving it back to 3rd and 39 at the 36 yd line . Of course Incomplete and a great punt again as Navy pinned at the 1 yd line(also Navy penalty on the play) .
Anyway 9 and change to play you have Navy pinned at the 1 time for the defense to do its thing and to there credit nothing but 4 straight punst and three and outs ...
navy gets 5 on 1st down then 3 on 2nd down. Now 3rd and 2 at the 9 yd line obviously crucial and Navy breaks a 39 yd run to midfield. Somewhat backbreaking but stil &;30 to play and you just nned to get the ball back . Which they had Navy 3rd and 2 at the WF 44 and didnt stop them . However the next play from WFs 40 they get a fumble and start fresh.
So 6 to play still 17-10 and Wakes ball on there 45 yd line. On 2nd down hit a big play for 14 yds to the Navy 40 with 5:30 to play . Then next play a bad toss and INT for Skinner ....
Now 1st down and Navy gets the ole momentum run for 39 yards and winds up in a few plays geting the quick TD to ice it .....
Point of that is for all the BS in the 1st H. They had about as many chances as one could possibly get to take the gam eor at least tie it up and repeatedly failed to.
Once they made the game 17-7 they had 5 possesions in a row with the ball inside the Navy 40 and managed just 3 pts on the 1st of those possessions . They then had 4 straight possessions downa TD where they started around teh Navy or moved to the Navy 40 and couldnt score . Its understandable with a sloppy 1st H they cant cover a big spread or win comfortable but a good team given that many opps at home vs a weaker opponent should be able to at least win that game . Negative that they couldnt IMO.
So they failed to execute and lost SU but it was there slightily better execution @ FSU and vs Miss that led them to narrow wins . So is the a clear syptom of the WF team ? Every game is gonna be close vs any type of mid level team or better ? Clearly Clemson is mid level even with its probelms but also probably with FSU the toughest defense WF has faced. Ole Miss started the 2nd with consecutive INT the 2nd of which cost them a FG and the 1st sort of killing a decent drive . They also had the lead with 1 minute left and didnt hold it . Credit to Skinner and Co on the comeback though but WF also didnt have any turnovers and that was the difference in what was a 2pt game.....
Seems like Boldin is the only kid making plays making Swank and Riley the 2nd and 3rd most important players on the offense as no one else seems to be contributing . The game @ WF the Deacons definetly outplayed FSU but they also didnt make plays when they could have buried FSU. Just 3-0 WF at half both teams missed FG . WF did get there FG thanks to a turnover . Also they missed 2 chances with the ball near or inside the red zone of FSU with a FG miss and INT plus a TOD at the FSU 20. ANyway the WF offense did better in the 3rd Q and exchanged FGs with eachother for a bit to go 9-3 WF and then Swank missed a long one. Then FSu started to drive and on 2nd and 10 from teh WF 41 get 5 yds which would have been 3rd and 5 from teh 36 and fumble it away.....Anyway the FSU defenses hold and gets the back with decent field position. Again the move it up field and take it to the WF 36 but its 4th and 3 and chose to pass and it goes INC.
So again alarming that FSU is handing them game and they couldnt take advantage due to sloppiness . They did have 3 missed FGs as well and some turnovers plus a TOD . FSU had 2 INts , fumble missed FG 1st H and then a 4th Q that read fumble , TOD , INT , INT , INT in what was basically a 6 pt game till the 2 minute mark and WF even missed a chip FG that would have made it 9 pts before it was actually a tad later .
Clemson side --
maryland loss isnt that bad not as bad as the Navyloss by WF IMO . Clemson played a very good 1st H on offense and led 17-6 but they had 1 turnover that gave the terps 3 points . That along with having the ball at the maryland 43 on 1st and 10 up 17-6 with about 5 to go before half and wind up punting not extending there lead played crucial in keeping Maryland around.
That seemed to what happened as Clemson just seemed to be 1 play and 1 score from icing it and couldnt do it . The 2nd H starts with them inside the Maryland 40 and have 2nd and 3 but get a penalty to make it 2nd and 8 at the 45 then just 1 yd gained and the INC leads to a punt .....then bey rips off a 75yd 1st down run from his own 20 and Terps get a TD to get it to 17-13.
Then early 4th Q after clemson and Maryland had exchange some punts and Tigers showed no pulse good field position for maryland at the Clemson 45 ended it all . Turner hit some passes and was 2nd and 10 at the 35 before he delibered some nice gainers for 10+ and 20+ that took it to the 1 and Maryland punche dit for the lead 20-17. Still 10 to play Clemson gets the ball back and moves it up field but at midfield on a 2nd and 10 7yd run they get a 15 yd penalty to put it 3rd and 18 form there own 42 but get 17yds on 3rd down . Now 4th and 1 at the Maryland 41 they cant get the 1 yd and TOD.
Clemson vs NCST is an odd game . While it doesnt look like that impressive really the game went as expected but couple big playshad an effect on the scoring . Harper those a pick 6 to start the game for one. However the Clemson puts up 17 pts on 5 possessions to close the 1st H and shuts down NCST . Which the Pack defense was playing well early this season. Which then in the 3rd Qthe Clemson defense didnt look so good . Ncst drove it down to open the 3rd but settled for a short FG missing it and getting nothing on a 12 play 68yd drive that ended inside the 10yd. Now Clemson takes it from teh 20 and goes quickly into NCST territory when Harper after an 8yd pickup to the State22 fumbles . Again State takes it inide the 10 after starting at there 22 yd line but agin falters and this time gets 3 pts. the Clemson defense did give NCST some help with some 15 yd penalties on these drives. Good field position near midfield and Clemson started driving again but a silly penalty put them in 2nd and 15 at the 26 rather then 2nd and 5 at the 16 resulting ion 3 points but strange they didnt try to run for it on 3rd and 2 IMO. So 20-9 now State gets bakc moves it some but is picked off but Clemson near its own 5 . They take it the distance 95 yds and get the icing TD to go up 27-9. The game ended when NCS moved the ball into CLemson territory but Beck was picked off and returned 71 yds the other way to about the 5 and the clock ran out .....
Couple little things and Clemson gets 35+ points and about 10 pts is what an offense should have scored but Wolfpack did move the ball on there 4 touches in the 2nd H and should have managed 9-13 pts ...
The big scare for me with Clemson is how they were owned by Bama . Bama is one of the better teams in the nation especially with that defense . They defense and ST seems to continuallt set them up with good field position which helps them build leads and make life even tougher opponents . also Clemson did defense did allow some long grind drives. really nothing to take from that game other Bama started quick as Harper again started with a 1st possession INT.
Truth is neither team is doing much to get excited about . WF could have lost its past 3 games and Maryland really only played badly enough to lose vs Bama and allowed Maryland to hang around more then getting beat but the same could be said for WF @ FSU they allowed FSU to hang around but Seminoles couldnt make the plays when given 2 chances down 9-3 and inside the opposing 35 ...
Its obviois whoever makes less mistakes wins here . Whats not obvious is does CLemson nee a road game to get away from the pressure ? Does playing its 1st road game after 5 weeks at home put them in position for another slow start ? remember Harper opening INTs vs NCState and Bama which led to them trailing .
Clemson is going to need big games from there RB duo if Harper continues to play like he has = inconsistent and more negatively then positive things have occurred . Think 2 picks vs SC State ......
""Maryland might’ve been down even more if not for Clemson’s first-half errors.
Jacoby Ford fumbled a punt on one series, while Harper’s backward pass to Aaron Kelly was knocked down and recovered by the Terps’ Adrian Moten.
Spiller had a 59-yard TD run in the third quarter called back on Kelly’s hold.
Harper also threw his fifth interception of the season, one shy of the six he had all last year"""
I keep looking at last years game 44-10 Clemson win and ask how the gap has narrowed when Moore , Andrews and the TE are gone from Wake but Clemson offense remains .
The fact that WF is ranked and not Clemson . Not creating the unranked ho
Maryland might’ve been down even more if not for Clemson’s first-half errors.
Jacoby Ford fumbled a punt on one series, while Harper’s backward pass to Aaron Kelly was knocked down and recovered by the Terps’ Adrian Moten.
Spiller had a 59-yard TD run in the third quarter called back on Kelly’s hold.
Harper also threw his fifth interception of the season, one shy of the six he had all last yearme fav vs ranked road foe situation probably would make me comfortable taking Clemson here .
I am just not sold on WF last 3 games at all. Neither offense is driving the ball much especially WF last 2 games . The amount of turnovers are crazy for them.
At home 6 turnovers vs Navy and 3 missed Fgs , 2fumbles and TOD @ FSU while they recieved 9 of those miscues vs FSU and won by 9 only !
Right now nothing strong but if your gonna give me FG here with Clemson I'll take . They have more talent and neither team is playing well and woul dguess Clemson is about 5 or 6 pts stronger on a neutral field . Just remeber my 1st sentence ( 3hours ago ....) its one of those games you probably wind up kicking yourself on....:36_11_6:
Really the fact WF has not been able to run the ball vs anyone is a huge issue IMO The fact WF has been beaten by Ole Miss through the air and Navy (obviously ) on the ground just makes me feel that with 2 solid RBs and a veteran QB with them they have the upperhand . Also the fact WF is ranked and Clemson is not may put some people on WF . Also Clemson 2 losses now and cant afford number three this early. Now or never for them. They host GTech after this game whose defense has been very sick then play at BC and at FSU winnable but tough games , host Duke , @ UVa and host Socar .....they take this and coud run the slate to SoCar just playing to there abilities alone IMO......Also like the OL of Clemson better as well . Clemson has beaten IMO better WF teams the opast 2 years as well ....
As of now Clemson looking at Clemson +3 or +3.5 if I am lucky and agin while I like the ML really not interested in +140 or less as opposed to +3 or 3.5 .......lean UNDER think 23-14 maybe ....Clemson and under teaser ?:cheers:
GL
All-time series: Clemson leads 56-16-1
All-time series in Winston-Salem, NC: Clemson leads 20-9-1
Last Meeting: 2007: Clemson 44 Wake Forest 10
Tommy Bowden: 90-48 overall (72-44 at Clemson)
Jim Grobe: 49-40 (82-73-1 overall)
Streak: Clemson has won two in a row
When: Thursday, October 9
Where: Winston-Salem, (NC) - BB&T Field (31,500)
Tickets: Sold Out
Time: 7:45 p.m. EST
TV: ESPN - Chris Fowler, Craig James, Jesse Palmer, Erin Andrews
Latest Line: Wake by 2.5
Clemson Message Boards: Tigerillustrated.com
Maryland Message Boards: DeaconsIllustrated.com
Quarterback
Riley Skinner, a junior and a second-team All-ACC selection in 2006, has completed nearly 70-percent of his throws for 974 yards and six touchdowns, but with four interceptions, all of which came last week versus Navy in a crushing home defeat. The mobile QB, branded by many onlookers as a 'gamer,' was simply tops in the NCAA in completion percentage (72.5-percent) last season. Fellow junior QB and backup Brett Hodges does have some seasoning, having started two games in his career.
<!--Start WAKErileyskinner Image--><script language="Javascript">document.write(insertImage('http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/911/564773.jpg', '564773.jpg', 0, 279, 225, 1, 'Riley Skinner is a former all-conference selection, and is looking to rebound after throwing four interceptions last weekend.', 'AP', 1223515074000, 'WAKErileyskinner', 911, 'Align=Right'));</script><table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="233"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="4" width="6">
</td><td width="227">
</td></tr><tr><td align="right">AP</td></tr><tr><td height="3">
</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Riley Skinner is a former all-conference selection, and is looking to rebound after throwing four interceptions last weekend.</td></tr></tbody></table><!-- End WAKErileyskinner Image-->Clemson ranks second in the ACC in passing, averaging 220 yards a game. Cullen Harper, a fifth-year senior and a preseason Davey O'Brien award candidate, hasn't hit his stride yet, so the Alpharetta (GA) native is due. Through five games he holds a 3/5 touchdown to interception ratio, completing 66.7-percent of his passes for 944 yards. Heralded red-shirt freshman Willy Korn continues to work in a backup role, only, but has sizzled in limited action, and does provide this spot with more athleticism and mobility. Korn has completed 14 of 18 passes for 157 yards and a touchdown.
Wake ranks first in the ACC in passing offense, and Skinner is tops in the league in pass efficiency. The talented junior now has 27 career starts, and typically doesn't lose a game for the Demon Deacons. Moreover, the odds of throwing four picks in back-to-back games are slim to none. Advantage: WAKE FOREST
Running Back
Highly touted sophomore back Josh Adams impressed in nine starts a year ago, earning second-team all-conference honors, rushing for 953 yards and 11 touchdowns. The former four-star selection won't likely match that total this fall, given the Demon Deacons' issues up front. Adams has just 151 yards (2.7 avg) and two scores to date. Red-shirt freshman runner Brandon Pendegrass has averaged 2.4 yards a rush in limited duty (36 carries).
Despite four different starting rotations up front in five games, Clemson, somehow has managed to average 165.6 yards rushing a contest. Senior back and two-time All-ACC pick James Davis is again leading the way for the Orange & White, having tallied 375 yards and five scores thus far. Junior burner C.J. Spiller has been outstanding, and is having his best season, averaging 6.6 yards a rush (304 yards). Spiller also has five scores.
The Deacons can't run on anybody, and rank 11th in the conference in rushing, and 114th in the nation in that category. Meanwhile the Tigers have gotten healthy up front defensively over the last two weeks, and in fact over the last two years Wake has done nothing on the ground versus the Orange & White, totaling 83 yards rushing in this game in 2007, and just 31 yards rushing against the Tigers in 2006. Advantage: CLEMSON
Wide Receivers & Tight Ends
The biggest benefactor of Wake's top-ranked passing attack has been veteran receiver D.J. Boldin, who has a team-high 28 catches for 276 yards, a significant leap over last year's production (11 REC., 127 yards). Junior tight end Ben Wooster has 154 yards receiving on 14 catches, and senior pass-catcher Chip Brinkman, this unit's leading returning receiver from 2007, ranks third on the Deacons' roster here with 12 catches for 103 yards and a team-leading two touchdowns.
Oddly the Tigers' all-time leading receiver, Aaron Kelly, hasn't yet found the end zone, but does still lead his team in catches (25), and has 253 yards. Jacoby Ford, also a situational back and a return-man, has 21 grabs, a career high, and 261 yards with a touchdown. Veteran Tyler Grisham, who caught 60 balls last season, ranks third here with 15 catches for 161 yards. Spiller has been involved in the Tigers' passing attack, and has nine catches for 111 yards and a score. Surprisingly Michael Palmer, the Tigers' lead man at tight end, already has two touchdown receptions.
The Tigers have more talent, speed and explosiveness available. Advantage: CLEMSON
Offensive Line
Wake was hit HARD on the offensive front in the off-season, losing first-team All-American Steve Justice, starting left guard Matt Brim, starting left tackle Louis Frazier, and 330-pound starting guard Chris DeGeare (24 career starts), who is ineligible for 2008.
The most experienced Deacon up front is junior right tackle Jeff Griffin, who enters this game with 21 career starts. Left tackle Joe Birdsong did start seven games last season, and junior right guard Barrett McMillin pulled seven starts in 2007. Former James F. Byrnes standout Trey Bailey, a center, had no prior starting experience before 2008, as did sophomore left guard Russell Nenon, who tallied less than 90 snaps last season. The Deacons average 6-foot-3 ¼, 287, and for the first time in the Jim Grobe era do not start an offensive front-man over 300 pounds.
The Tigers received a much-needed open date, using that time to get healthy up front, while also taking an opportunity to experiment with 6-foot-6, 320-pound tackle Cory Lambert at left guard, which drew very positive returns from offensive line coach Brad Scott and head coach Tommy Bowden. In addition, Winston-Salem (NC) native Chris Hairston, this group's top pass-protector, is back after missing three games with a knee injury. Junior center Thomas Austin has been a bright light in an offense that has received plenty of criticism, and Mason Cloy, a red-shirt freshman right guard, has taken the bull by the horns in his four starts following Barry Humphries departure (knee injury) after the Alabama game. Landon Walker, a talented red-shirt freshman, is closing in on locking down the starting job at right tackle.
Clemson's front averages 6-4 ¾, 315, and possesses more talent and experience. The Tigers also have enjoyed more production to date on the ground, and have averaged more rushing yardage than Wake in each of the last three seasons. Advantage: CLEMSON
Defensive Line
Wake ranks ninth in the ACC in rush defense, allowing 149 yards a contest, though those numbers are somewhat skewed after this unit cut its teeth on Navy's heavy option-oriented ground assault which amassed 292 yards rushing last weekend.
<!--Start WAKEjoshadams Image--><script language="Javascript">document.write(insertImage('http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/911/701457.jpg', '701457.jpg', 0, 270, 220, 1, 'Josh Adams is averaging just 2.7 yards a carry behind an inexperienced offensive front.', 'AP', 1223515615000, 'WAKEjoshadams', 911, 'Align=Left'));</script><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="228"><tbody><tr><td width="222">
</td><td rowspan="4" width="6">
</td></tr><tr><td align="right">AP</td></tr><tr><td height="3">
</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Josh Adams is averaging just 2.7 yards a carry behind an inexperienced offensive front.</td></tr></tbody></table><!-- End WAKEjoshadams Image-->Junior nose guard Boo Robinson, at 6-foot-3, 325 pounds, has no trouble clogging the middle. He also leads this group in tackles (15) and sacks (2.5). Junior tackle John Russell, who has 11 stops, is one of two new starters up front this season, joining former Columbia – Spring Valley product, Anthony Davis, a defensive end. Davis has just three stops this fall. The Midlands native did start two games last season. And veteran edge-rusher Matt Robinson is no stranger to facing the Tigers, and will be making his 33rd career start. Robinson has 10 tackles and one sack to his credit.
Clemson's defense ranks fourth in the ACC against the run, allowing 115 yards a game. Getting athletic bandit end Ricky Sapp back after missing two games with a knee injury has helped significantly, as has an injection of power and size from touted true freshman nose guard Brandon Thompson, who stands in at 6-foot-2, weighing 315 pounds, with 11 tackles and four quarterback pressures in limited duty. Dorell Scott, who has 18 tackles and three tackles for loss, has been more productive in each of the last two games. Jarvis Jenkins, who has 13 tackles, commits the most busts here, but also has made his share of plays, and has five tackles for loss.
Keep an eye on the strongside end spot, as blue-chip true freshman strongside end Da'Quan Bowers said Tuesday he's not yet sure he'll start, possibly giving way to Kevin Alexander, due to a slightly sprained wrist and bruised ribs. The Tigers' pass-rush at the position is very average, at best, without Bowers in the lineup. The Bamberg native, who said he's roughly 90-percent, should still log over 30 snaps in this one. He has eight quarterback pressures to date. Advantage: CLEMSON
Linebacker
Wake has the most experienced backer rotation in the conference, as everyone on its two-deep depth chart returned from 2007. Veteran headhunter Aaron Curry was second on the team in tackles (99) and in interceptions (4) last season. Through four games Curry leads this group in stops (30) and already has a pick to his credit. Senior backers Chantz McClinic and Stanley Arnoux rank second and third on the team in tackles respectively. Key backups Matt Woodlief and Hunter Haynes, both sophomores, have nine tackles apiece.
The Tigers are improving here, but through five games easily this group has been the single biggest disappointment on defense, especially at the SAM position, where despite a bump in talent, depth and athleticism, big plays haven't been registered with regularity. Sophomores Scotty Cooper and DeAndre McDaniel have combined for 35 stops, but surprisingly neither one has yet registered a tackle for loss. Red-shirt freshman MIKE Brandon Maye, the most physical player in this group, has a position-high two tackles for loss, and ranks third on the team in tackles (34). Junior WILL backer Kavell Conner has a team-high 49 tackles and one tackle for loss. Key backup Buster Hunter, a true freshman MIKE, who has 21 stops, should play a lot in this one.
Clemson has more talent, but the Deacons have an overwhelming edge in experience, and as a result have been more productive this season. Advantage: WAKE FOREST
Defensive Back
Wake has shown significant improvement versus the pass this season after allowing a friendly 231 yards per game in 2007, and leading the way is All-American candidate Alphonso Smith, a second-team All-American pick last season after an outstanding eight interceptions. Already he has two picks this fall, and senior safety Kevin Patterson is slightly ahead in that category, having tallied three interceptions. Talented cornerback Brandon Ghee has 14 tackles and a pick, while veteran safety Chip Vaughn also has a pick to go along with 19 stops. This group ranks second in the conference in pass defense, allowing just 144.5 yards a game.
Clemson ranks seventh in the ACC in pass defense, allowing 200.8 yards a contest. Its leader is Thorpe Award candidate Michael Hamlin. The CAT safety has a team-high three interceptions. Talented junior cover-corners Chris Chancellor and Crezdon Butler have two picks apiece, and veteran free safety Chris Clemons has this group's only interception return for a score, a 32-yarder versus S.C. State. Sophomore backup cornerbacks Marcus Gilchrist and Byron Maxwell will get plenty of work in this game.
Statistically speaking the Deacs have been better, but a closer look reveals that Navy (#118 nationally in pass offense), Florida State (#83), Baylor (#94) and Ole Miss (#55) simply aren't very good passing teams. And the Tigers have the most talent and experience in the ACC in their starting rotation. Advantage: CLEMSON
Special Teams
Wake ranks first in the nation in punt return coverage defense and an impressive 23rd nationally in kickoff return coverage defense. Veteran punter and kicker Sam Swank, a first-team All-ACC pick last season, could miss this game after pulling a quad in practice earlier this week. Thus far he has hit on 10 of 13 field goals with a long of 49, and has averaged 37.6 yards a punt. If he cannot go, Wake will look to red-shirt freshman Shane Popham. Popham has yet to play in a game. Smith is the Deacs' lead dog on punt returns, averaging 7.1 yards an attempt. Red-shirt freshman athlete C.J. Washington has averaged 23.5 yards a (kickoff) return. Red-shirt freshman Devon Brown has averaged 24 yards a return on three attempts.
<!--Start WAKEjim grobe Image--><script language="Javascript">document.write(insertImage('http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/911/407996.jpg', '407996.jpg', 0, 277, 330, 1, 'Jim Grobe won the ACC title in 2006, and followed up that effort with a solid 9-4 campaign in 2007.', 'AP', 1223515154000, 'WAKEjim grobe', 911, 'Align=Right'));</script><table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="338"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="4" width="6">
</td><td width="332">
</td></tr><tr><td align="right">AP</td></tr><tr><td height="3">
</td></tr><tr><td align="center">Jim Grobe won the ACC title in 2006, and followed up that effort with a solid 9-4 campaign in 2007.</td></tr></tbody></table><!-- End WAKEjim grobe Image-->Clemson ranks 58th nationally in kickoff return coverage defense, and 74th in punt return coverage defense. Senior kicker Mark Buchholz has to date been rock solid, hitting a perfect six of six. Tigerillustrated.com projects true freshman punter Dawson Zimmerman to move back into the starting lineup here after missing the last three games with a pulled hamstring. Zimmerman averaged 40 yards a boot versus Alabama. Spiller, the most explosive skill player on the Tigers' roster, averages 28.6 yards a kickoff return, and does have a touchdown to his credit.
The Deacons get a slight edge here if Swank is in this game. If the senior kicker is out, the Tigers have the advantage.
Overview & Prediction
Jim Grobe has done a phenomenal job at Wake Forest, and is living proof that it is indeed possible to polish a terd. The eighth-year head coach has guided the former conference cellar-dwellers to three bowl appearances and an outstanding 11-3 mark in 2006, capturing the Atlantic Coast Conference title and a trip to the Orange Bowl.
The Deacons won't win any recruiting titles, even under Grobe, and won't be in a position to land any top 25 recruiting classes any time soon, despite a significant bump up in football facilities spending over the last several years.
But Grobe & Company have upgraded their personnel extensively, and via strong evaluation, landing better athletes and more speed.
Clemson has crushed the Deacons in the all-time series, owning a 56-16-1 mark, and a respectable 20-9-1 edge in Winston-Salem (NC). But the Tigers are no stranger to falling in Groves Stadium, now known as BB&T Field.
Bowden dropped a 45-17 decision to Grobe in 2003, and again suffered a loss to Wake on the road in 2005, a 31-27 decision after going in as a six-point favorite.
And in 2006 the Tigers, a 16-point favorite and ranked 15th in the country, nearly lost another one to Grobe, before coming back on a game-changing play by Gaines Adams, which sparked 24 fourth quarter points to give the Tigers a 27-17 win.
Last year the Tigers romped in Death Valley in a game that was arguably the finest moment for now embattled offensive coordinator Rob Spence, whose offense on that day rolled up 44 points.
Oddly, Clemson comes into this one in unfamiliar territory, as it is Wake holding a No. 21-ranking and a slight edge in the eyes of Las Vegas, sitting as a 2.5 lined favorite.
The game is huge for Clemson, which badly wants to restore its credibility after falling on its face in losses to Alabama and Maryland following its season debut with a No. 9 ranking.
Wake isn't likely to lose three conference games. And no less than 6-2 in the ACC is a must for the Tigers if it has designs of winning the Atlantic Division. A victory in this one affords it the tie-breaker over the Deacs. A loss puts Clemson very much behind the eight ball, while also affording fans to exchange what is currently a very hot seat for a fiery furnace for its coaching staff.
If this game were on paper, the Tigers would win by two touchdowns. At virtually every position the Tigers have an edge in talent, though not necessarily experience (K/LB/QB).
But even Bowden's biggest critics will admit he saves his best for when his back is against the wall. And now would be one of those times.
For all the Jim Grobe anointing that goes on multiple times a day on the net, Grobe is just 2-5 versus Bowden.
And the Demon Deacons are just 3-11 versus Clemson in Winston-Salem since 1978.
Moreover, the home team in this series has gone just 6-7-2 against the spread over the last 15. As a home favorite versus conference opponents, which hasn't been very often, Grobe is just 6-7-2 against the spread. And Wake is now just 3-10-1 against the spread over their last 14 games when coming off a bye week.
For Bowden, apparently the role of a road underdog in ACC play is just what the doctor ordered, as the Tigers are a respectable 10-6 against the spread as a lined underdog on the road in conference games under the 54-year old.
The Clemson seniors voted on all-white uniforms for this game, and will don the rare combination (at least under Bowden) in the face of a blackout, but they will do so in victory. Clemson by 2
TI staff itemized picks: Cris Ard - CLEM by 8 (28-20), Ryan Bartow - WAKE by 4 (27-23).
All-time series in Winston-Salem, NC: Clemson leads 20-9-1
Last Meeting: 2007: Clemson 44 Wake Forest 10
Tommy Bowden: 90-48 overall (72-44 at Clemson)
Jim Grobe: 49-40 (82-73-1 overall)
Streak: Clemson has won two in a row
When: Thursday, October 9
Where: Winston-Salem, (NC) - BB&T Field (31,500)
Tickets: Sold Out
Time: 7:45 p.m. EST
TV: ESPN - Chris Fowler, Craig James, Jesse Palmer, Erin Andrews
Latest Line: Wake by 2.5
Clemson Message Boards: Tigerillustrated.com
Maryland Message Boards: DeaconsIllustrated.com
Quarterback
Riley Skinner, a junior and a second-team All-ACC selection in 2006, has completed nearly 70-percent of his throws for 974 yards and six touchdowns, but with four interceptions, all of which came last week versus Navy in a crushing home defeat. The mobile QB, branded by many onlookers as a 'gamer,' was simply tops in the NCAA in completion percentage (72.5-percent) last season. Fellow junior QB and backup Brett Hodges does have some seasoning, having started two games in his career.
<!--Start WAKErileyskinner Image--><script language="Javascript">document.write(insertImage('http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/911/564773.jpg', '564773.jpg', 0, 279, 225, 1, 'Riley Skinner is a former all-conference selection, and is looking to rebound after throwing four interceptions last weekend.', 'AP', 1223515074000, 'WAKErileyskinner', 911, 'Align=Right'));</script><table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="233"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="4" width="6">
Wake ranks first in the ACC in passing offense, and Skinner is tops in the league in pass efficiency. The talented junior now has 27 career starts, and typically doesn't lose a game for the Demon Deacons. Moreover, the odds of throwing four picks in back-to-back games are slim to none. Advantage: WAKE FOREST
Running Back
Highly touted sophomore back Josh Adams impressed in nine starts a year ago, earning second-team all-conference honors, rushing for 953 yards and 11 touchdowns. The former four-star selection won't likely match that total this fall, given the Demon Deacons' issues up front. Adams has just 151 yards (2.7 avg) and two scores to date. Red-shirt freshman runner Brandon Pendegrass has averaged 2.4 yards a rush in limited duty (36 carries).
Despite four different starting rotations up front in five games, Clemson, somehow has managed to average 165.6 yards rushing a contest. Senior back and two-time All-ACC pick James Davis is again leading the way for the Orange & White, having tallied 375 yards and five scores thus far. Junior burner C.J. Spiller has been outstanding, and is having his best season, averaging 6.6 yards a rush (304 yards). Spiller also has five scores.
The Deacons can't run on anybody, and rank 11th in the conference in rushing, and 114th in the nation in that category. Meanwhile the Tigers have gotten healthy up front defensively over the last two weeks, and in fact over the last two years Wake has done nothing on the ground versus the Orange & White, totaling 83 yards rushing in this game in 2007, and just 31 yards rushing against the Tigers in 2006. Advantage: CLEMSON
Wide Receivers & Tight Ends
The biggest benefactor of Wake's top-ranked passing attack has been veteran receiver D.J. Boldin, who has a team-high 28 catches for 276 yards, a significant leap over last year's production (11 REC., 127 yards). Junior tight end Ben Wooster has 154 yards receiving on 14 catches, and senior pass-catcher Chip Brinkman, this unit's leading returning receiver from 2007, ranks third on the Deacons' roster here with 12 catches for 103 yards and a team-leading two touchdowns.
Oddly the Tigers' all-time leading receiver, Aaron Kelly, hasn't yet found the end zone, but does still lead his team in catches (25), and has 253 yards. Jacoby Ford, also a situational back and a return-man, has 21 grabs, a career high, and 261 yards with a touchdown. Veteran Tyler Grisham, who caught 60 balls last season, ranks third here with 15 catches for 161 yards. Spiller has been involved in the Tigers' passing attack, and has nine catches for 111 yards and a score. Surprisingly Michael Palmer, the Tigers' lead man at tight end, already has two touchdown receptions.
The Tigers have more talent, speed and explosiveness available. Advantage: CLEMSON
Offensive Line
Wake was hit HARD on the offensive front in the off-season, losing first-team All-American Steve Justice, starting left guard Matt Brim, starting left tackle Louis Frazier, and 330-pound starting guard Chris DeGeare (24 career starts), who is ineligible for 2008.
The most experienced Deacon up front is junior right tackle Jeff Griffin, who enters this game with 21 career starts. Left tackle Joe Birdsong did start seven games last season, and junior right guard Barrett McMillin pulled seven starts in 2007. Former James F. Byrnes standout Trey Bailey, a center, had no prior starting experience before 2008, as did sophomore left guard Russell Nenon, who tallied less than 90 snaps last season. The Deacons average 6-foot-3 ¼, 287, and for the first time in the Jim Grobe era do not start an offensive front-man over 300 pounds.
The Tigers received a much-needed open date, using that time to get healthy up front, while also taking an opportunity to experiment with 6-foot-6, 320-pound tackle Cory Lambert at left guard, which drew very positive returns from offensive line coach Brad Scott and head coach Tommy Bowden. In addition, Winston-Salem (NC) native Chris Hairston, this group's top pass-protector, is back after missing three games with a knee injury. Junior center Thomas Austin has been a bright light in an offense that has received plenty of criticism, and Mason Cloy, a red-shirt freshman right guard, has taken the bull by the horns in his four starts following Barry Humphries departure (knee injury) after the Alabama game. Landon Walker, a talented red-shirt freshman, is closing in on locking down the starting job at right tackle.
Clemson's front averages 6-4 ¾, 315, and possesses more talent and experience. The Tigers also have enjoyed more production to date on the ground, and have averaged more rushing yardage than Wake in each of the last three seasons. Advantage: CLEMSON
Defensive Line
Wake ranks ninth in the ACC in rush defense, allowing 149 yards a contest, though those numbers are somewhat skewed after this unit cut its teeth on Navy's heavy option-oriented ground assault which amassed 292 yards rushing last weekend.
<!--Start WAKEjoshadams Image--><script language="Javascript">document.write(insertImage('http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/911/701457.jpg', '701457.jpg', 0, 270, 220, 1, 'Josh Adams is averaging just 2.7 yards a carry behind an inexperienced offensive front.', 'AP', 1223515615000, 'WAKEjoshadams', 911, 'Align=Left'));</script><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="228"><tbody><tr><td width="222">
Clemson's defense ranks fourth in the ACC against the run, allowing 115 yards a game. Getting athletic bandit end Ricky Sapp back after missing two games with a knee injury has helped significantly, as has an injection of power and size from touted true freshman nose guard Brandon Thompson, who stands in at 6-foot-2, weighing 315 pounds, with 11 tackles and four quarterback pressures in limited duty. Dorell Scott, who has 18 tackles and three tackles for loss, has been more productive in each of the last two games. Jarvis Jenkins, who has 13 tackles, commits the most busts here, but also has made his share of plays, and has five tackles for loss.
Keep an eye on the strongside end spot, as blue-chip true freshman strongside end Da'Quan Bowers said Tuesday he's not yet sure he'll start, possibly giving way to Kevin Alexander, due to a slightly sprained wrist and bruised ribs. The Tigers' pass-rush at the position is very average, at best, without Bowers in the lineup. The Bamberg native, who said he's roughly 90-percent, should still log over 30 snaps in this one. He has eight quarterback pressures to date. Advantage: CLEMSON
Linebacker
Wake has the most experienced backer rotation in the conference, as everyone on its two-deep depth chart returned from 2007. Veteran headhunter Aaron Curry was second on the team in tackles (99) and in interceptions (4) last season. Through four games Curry leads this group in stops (30) and already has a pick to his credit. Senior backers Chantz McClinic and Stanley Arnoux rank second and third on the team in tackles respectively. Key backups Matt Woodlief and Hunter Haynes, both sophomores, have nine tackles apiece.
The Tigers are improving here, but through five games easily this group has been the single biggest disappointment on defense, especially at the SAM position, where despite a bump in talent, depth and athleticism, big plays haven't been registered with regularity. Sophomores Scotty Cooper and DeAndre McDaniel have combined for 35 stops, but surprisingly neither one has yet registered a tackle for loss. Red-shirt freshman MIKE Brandon Maye, the most physical player in this group, has a position-high two tackles for loss, and ranks third on the team in tackles (34). Junior WILL backer Kavell Conner has a team-high 49 tackles and one tackle for loss. Key backup Buster Hunter, a true freshman MIKE, who has 21 stops, should play a lot in this one.
Clemson has more talent, but the Deacons have an overwhelming edge in experience, and as a result have been more productive this season. Advantage: WAKE FOREST
Defensive Back
Wake has shown significant improvement versus the pass this season after allowing a friendly 231 yards per game in 2007, and leading the way is All-American candidate Alphonso Smith, a second-team All-American pick last season after an outstanding eight interceptions. Already he has two picks this fall, and senior safety Kevin Patterson is slightly ahead in that category, having tallied three interceptions. Talented cornerback Brandon Ghee has 14 tackles and a pick, while veteran safety Chip Vaughn also has a pick to go along with 19 stops. This group ranks second in the conference in pass defense, allowing just 144.5 yards a game.
Clemson ranks seventh in the ACC in pass defense, allowing 200.8 yards a contest. Its leader is Thorpe Award candidate Michael Hamlin. The CAT safety has a team-high three interceptions. Talented junior cover-corners Chris Chancellor and Crezdon Butler have two picks apiece, and veteran free safety Chris Clemons has this group's only interception return for a score, a 32-yarder versus S.C. State. Sophomore backup cornerbacks Marcus Gilchrist and Byron Maxwell will get plenty of work in this game.
Statistically speaking the Deacs have been better, but a closer look reveals that Navy (#118 nationally in pass offense), Florida State (#83), Baylor (#94) and Ole Miss (#55) simply aren't very good passing teams. And the Tigers have the most talent and experience in the ACC in their starting rotation. Advantage: CLEMSON
Special Teams
Wake ranks first in the nation in punt return coverage defense and an impressive 23rd nationally in kickoff return coverage defense. Veteran punter and kicker Sam Swank, a first-team All-ACC pick last season, could miss this game after pulling a quad in practice earlier this week. Thus far he has hit on 10 of 13 field goals with a long of 49, and has averaged 37.6 yards a punt. If he cannot go, Wake will look to red-shirt freshman Shane Popham. Popham has yet to play in a game. Smith is the Deacs' lead dog on punt returns, averaging 7.1 yards an attempt. Red-shirt freshman athlete C.J. Washington has averaged 23.5 yards a (kickoff) return. Red-shirt freshman Devon Brown has averaged 24 yards a return on three attempts.
<!--Start WAKEjim grobe Image--><script language="Javascript">document.write(insertImage('http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/911/407996.jpg', '407996.jpg', 0, 277, 330, 1, 'Jim Grobe won the ACC title in 2006, and followed up that effort with a solid 9-4 campaign in 2007.', 'AP', 1223515154000, 'WAKEjim grobe', 911, 'Align=Right'));</script><table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="338"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="4" width="6">
The Deacons get a slight edge here if Swank is in this game. If the senior kicker is out, the Tigers have the advantage.
Overview & Prediction
Jim Grobe has done a phenomenal job at Wake Forest, and is living proof that it is indeed possible to polish a terd. The eighth-year head coach has guided the former conference cellar-dwellers to three bowl appearances and an outstanding 11-3 mark in 2006, capturing the Atlantic Coast Conference title and a trip to the Orange Bowl.
The Deacons won't win any recruiting titles, even under Grobe, and won't be in a position to land any top 25 recruiting classes any time soon, despite a significant bump up in football facilities spending over the last several years.
But Grobe & Company have upgraded their personnel extensively, and via strong evaluation, landing better athletes and more speed.
Clemson has crushed the Deacons in the all-time series, owning a 56-16-1 mark, and a respectable 20-9-1 edge in Winston-Salem (NC). But the Tigers are no stranger to falling in Groves Stadium, now known as BB&T Field.
Bowden dropped a 45-17 decision to Grobe in 2003, and again suffered a loss to Wake on the road in 2005, a 31-27 decision after going in as a six-point favorite.
And in 2006 the Tigers, a 16-point favorite and ranked 15th in the country, nearly lost another one to Grobe, before coming back on a game-changing play by Gaines Adams, which sparked 24 fourth quarter points to give the Tigers a 27-17 win.
Last year the Tigers romped in Death Valley in a game that was arguably the finest moment for now embattled offensive coordinator Rob Spence, whose offense on that day rolled up 44 points.
Oddly, Clemson comes into this one in unfamiliar territory, as it is Wake holding a No. 21-ranking and a slight edge in the eyes of Las Vegas, sitting as a 2.5 lined favorite.
The game is huge for Clemson, which badly wants to restore its credibility after falling on its face in losses to Alabama and Maryland following its season debut with a No. 9 ranking.
Wake isn't likely to lose three conference games. And no less than 6-2 in the ACC is a must for the Tigers if it has designs of winning the Atlantic Division. A victory in this one affords it the tie-breaker over the Deacs. A loss puts Clemson very much behind the eight ball, while also affording fans to exchange what is currently a very hot seat for a fiery furnace for its coaching staff.
If this game were on paper, the Tigers would win by two touchdowns. At virtually every position the Tigers have an edge in talent, though not necessarily experience (K/LB/QB).
But even Bowden's biggest critics will admit he saves his best for when his back is against the wall. And now would be one of those times.
For all the Jim Grobe anointing that goes on multiple times a day on the net, Grobe is just 2-5 versus Bowden.
And the Demon Deacons are just 3-11 versus Clemson in Winston-Salem since 1978.
Moreover, the home team in this series has gone just 6-7-2 against the spread over the last 15. As a home favorite versus conference opponents, which hasn't been very often, Grobe is just 6-7-2 against the spread. And Wake is now just 3-10-1 against the spread over their last 14 games when coming off a bye week.
For Bowden, apparently the role of a road underdog in ACC play is just what the doctor ordered, as the Tigers are a respectable 10-6 against the spread as a lined underdog on the road in conference games under the 54-year old.
The Clemson seniors voted on all-white uniforms for this game, and will don the rare combination (at least under Bowden) in the face of a blackout, but they will do so in victory. Clemson by 2
TI staff itemized picks: Cris Ard - CLEM by 8 (28-20), Ryan Bartow - WAKE by 4 (27-23).
O
ontime23
Guest
Is this rumor true that Swank could be out for tomm game?
O
ontime23
Guest
Wake Forest senior kicker Sam Swank injured his right quadriceps in a practice this week and there's only a 50-50 chance he'll play for the Demon Deacons' home game against Clemson on Thursday.
Wake coach Jim Grobe said on the ACC's teleconference Wednesday that redshirt freshman Shane Popham might have to replace Swank in the lineup for kicking and punting duties.
Wake coach Jim Grobe said on the ACC's teleconference Wednesday that redshirt freshman Shane Popham might have to replace Swank in the lineup for kicking and punting duties.
TheGifted1
Pretty much a regular
Just wanted to add my line to this thread for this game..
Wake -6 43
That is what i got and the prediction model had Wake by 10...:tiphat:
Wake -6 43
That is what i got and the prediction model had Wake by 10...:tiphat:
Is the prediction model hot? What are her measurements?
ghostnmyhead
On The Grind Stacking Big Faces
Great post by all very informative:shake:. Just going to drop my 2 cents on this game. I think the line is set accordingly i don't smell anything fishy about the line. its set at -2.5, like sportsnut said if i can grab it at +3 or +3.5 most likely ill be on Clemson. I really think this is a must win for the tigers, and everything is going to be on the line for them tomorrow night.This game is going to be decided down in the trenches, and single handed clemson takes the cake.IMO wake forest's D is very Suspect and overrated. Navy and missippi was able to score in the +20 on wake. most likely im laying alot on the first half Clemson.not counting the Baylor game, wake has stuggled in the first half of games only putting up 13 pts in the first half in 3 games. Clemson on the other hand has outscored there opponents 85-19 in the first half not counting the Bama game.So my bets will most likely be Clemson first half and ml for the game. good luck all
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
I know a guy and he told me WAKE is a 2nd half team--
I also know a guy named Sportsnut, this guy should be writing articles for ESPN, your post in this thread is the longest one ever and full on info--
I also know a guy named Sportsnut, this guy should be writing articles for ESPN, your post in this thread is the longest one ever and full on info--
B
buckeyeburritos
Guest
:shake:
http://cappingthegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60927
for those who didn't get to read this
TopDaddy
Pretty much a regular
I agree for the most part with kyle's analysis, but tell that to the people on the FAU ML last week...
B
buckeyeburritos
Guest
Not to take over the thread with Tuesday nights game, but "kyle's analysis" was proved by this game. Yea, FAU ML didn't hit, and neither did they cover so if you took the FAU spread or ml it wouldn't have hit either way. However Troy did cover, and what kyle is saying is if the spread is 4.5 or lower just pick the winner. Troy was the winner, and they covered.
So basically in tonights game you can more or less pick the winner, and they should cover. This is especially true since games are rarely won by 1 or 2 points. So if you think clemson is going to cover, take the ml cause it has way more value than taking the spread.
Ya, tonight may be one of the rare occasions where clemson covers, but doesn't win.... If you like Clemson take the ML, and if you like Wake take the spread. All about value.....
J Galt
Everyone's got a price.....
I've made it a rule of mine to not go against the Chop Blocking Baptists, especially at home when they are not huge favorites. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to watch this game, but it should be a doozy. I agree with everyone who said that the spread won't come into play here (although it should be higher), the winner of this game is going to take it by a TD.
Right now leaning Wake, but want to see where the public goes. Probably best to lay off, but we'll see.
Right now leaning Wake, but want to see where the public goes. Probably best to lay off, but we'll see.
O
ontime23
Guest
I'm telling you guys Grobe is a FG guy and with Swank probably out. It will change his game.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=233 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=CCTextsm vAlign=top align=left colSpan=3>nston-Salem, NC (27105)
Updated Oct 9 11:45 a.m. ET
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</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>
</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsTempText vAlign=center align=middle>64°F</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>Cloudy</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=middle>Feels Like: 64°F</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>UV Index:</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>2 Low</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>Wind:</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>From the East at 4 mph</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>Dew Point:</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>60°F</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>Humidity:</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>87%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>Visibility:</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>6.0 miles</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>Pressure:</TD><TD>
</TD><TD class=obsText vAlign=top align=left>30.07 inches and steady</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>
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Clemson
@ Wake Forest (Schedule)
Thursday, October 9, 2008
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Event Day Forecast for Oct. 9
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Scattered T-Storms
Daytime High:72°F
Overnight Low:61°F
Probability of Precipitation: 40%
Wind: From the East Northeast at 5 mph
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</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fffae2 colSpan=2>
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dataText align=middle width="60%" bgColor=#fffae2>Spectator Index</TD><TD class=dataText align=middle width="40%" bgColor=#fffae2>UV Index</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fffae2 colSpan=2>
</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#863637 colSpan=2>
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dataText align=middle width="60%" bgColor=#ffffff>6</TD><TD class=dataText align=middle width="40%" bgColor=#ffffff>Moderate</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2>
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</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dataText align=middle width="50%" bgColor=#fffae2>Sunrise</TD><TD class=dataText align=middle width="50%" bgColor=#fffae2>Sunset</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fffae2 colSpan=2>
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</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dataText align=middle width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>7:23 AM</TD><TD class=dataText align=middle width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>6:52 PM</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2>
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Event Details
Other Local Sporting Events
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Updated Oct 9 11:45 a.m. ET
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Clemson
@ Wake Forest (Schedule)
Thursday, October 9, 2008
Event Day Forecast for Oct. 9
Scattered T-Storms
Daytime High:72°F
Overnight Low:61°F
Probability of Precipitation: 40%
Wind: From the East Northeast at 5 mph
Other Local Sporting Events
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Sarcastic Sword
Pretty much a regular
Swank being out would be huge...........
D
ddk997
Guest
Average power rating of opponents played: CLEMSON 24.4, WAKE FOREST 42.5
O
ontime23
Guest
That's llike comparing apples and oranges.
hoopsstar22
Captain of Vanzack's yacht
I have Clemson as a 2.5 fav.
I hit the ML about an hour ago, at +113 when I saw it dropped at Pinny, and its getting close to +100 everywhere else.
I hit the ML about an hour ago, at +113 when I saw it dropped at Pinny, and its getting close to +100 everywhere else.
Clemson has played Maryland , Bama and NCST while WF has played Navy , Ole Miss , @ FSU seems alot closer then that indicates ...
