Thoughts on non-contending teams making waiver claims

[Fondybadger]

One of my fantasy teams is a 10 team league. Top 4 make playoffs and are playing for prize pool. Teams 5-8 are in a consolation bracket playing for pride. Teams 9 and 10 are out of everything.

Do you have issues with teams 5-10 making waiver claims?

 

[KJ]

Not really, if anything it seems like it's keeping competitive balance more fair

Just not sure why they would at this point, but let's face it...always sucks when teams that are out of it just check out. #1 and #2 guy should be ecstatic that 3 and 4 can't just ramp up their teams at this point without resistance

 

[Fondybadger]

I think it's f'n bullshit.

It's also a non-keeper league. I'm irate over the 10th place team making multiple waiver claims and getting the top two projected defenses that were on the wire this week. 10th place team is commish as well. Full disclosure, I didn't make a waiver claim, and do not need a defense. My opponent in semi-finals needs a defense change and was blocked.

I even have issues with teams 5-8 making waiver claims. At least with those teams, I don't mind them making roster moves post waiver wire changes. Just give the contending teams first dibs.

Had same issues in a 16 team league last week. We have an 8 team NFC division and an 8 team AFC division. A non-playoff team was making waiver changes. I'd have been really pissed this week as I made a couple changes being the only NFC team left taking on AFC champ. You can effectively block one team and not another.

 

[Fondybadger]

Not really, if anything it seems like it's keeping competitive balance more fair

Just not sure why they would at this point, but let's face it...always sucks when teams that are out of it just check out. #1 and #2 guy should be ecstatic that 3 and 4 can't just ramp up their teams at this point without resistance

I'm #1 taking on #4 and #10 blocked 4 from getting his defense. That's not cool.

 

[KJ]

Fwiw I don't do fantasy anymore for something you speak of, but from the other perspective.

I always wanted to get creative and encourage #10 to be as active as #4 like it was week 1. So tough to do, but it shouldn't be a four man tournament imo. Encouraging people to stick around and play was always so tricky. We always did weekly prizes but that wasn't enough.

 

[D-Woww]

Fondy, if fantasy is supposed to mimic sports, then teams have the right to do that.

Also, nothing is worse than when teams stop trying after week 7, so I am in favor of incentivizing not finishing last. In our league, we have a trophy that the champ gets his name engraved on every year. the last place finisher has to pay for the engraving. so teams have reason to always try.

 

[B.A.R.]

I agree with Dan here.

 

[B.A.R.]

In my main league, we do high week payouts for all 16 weeks of play so no one quits. We also have payouts for season points so that perhaps a bad luck team gets rewarded. Waiver claims are the same weeks 1-16.

 

[B.A.R.]

Fondy, in your set-up, you might as well just freeze the teams in the 9-10 spots. Also, if you have a consolation prize for 5-8 then you can't really be mad they are making moves to help their team.

 

[ljc_267]

Not sure why the 10th place team would make a waiver claim in a non keeper league if there is no weekly payout.

Looks like hes just being a dick.

 

[Gandolf]

I don't complain if its done but unless there's a specific prize attached such as in BAR's league its kind of an unwritten rule to leave the waiver claims to the playoff teams. But once waivers clears the free agency period is still a free for all. You never know if two consolation teams have a personal bet on their match up or something.

 

[B.A.R.]

You play to win . Shit, in a tattoo league last place gets a tat of the champions choice.

 

[Fondybadger]

Not sure why the 10th place team would make a waiver claim in a non keeper league if there is no weekly payout.

Looks like hes just being a dick.

That's my thoughts. The teams season is completely over. His argument was he wanted to see how he would do against the playoff teams if he was still playing.

 

[KJ]

If you want to disallow it once the playoffs start (and others are playing for nothing but pride) I could only see it work if you flipped it and allowed the #1 team to have first waiver rights and go down. No way should #4 in a four team playoff become the first right to waiver wire, #4 is already a very good team and could easily move into being the best or second best with one move. That sounds terrible imo.

 

[detroit187]

We do it where highest scorer each week gets $$ even if they are out of the playoffs, thorugh week 16. It helps keep teams active and no one can bitch if they make moves.

I also do it where based on how you finish the season, you get to pick where you want to draft in the first round the following year. Its a 8 team league so if i finish first, I have first choice of picks 1-8. We all love it and there is some strategy involved the following year. Some guys like the middle, end to get back to back, first, it adds more incentive to finish strong and play out the year. Oh and last place has to buy all the food for the draft (works if live draft)

 

[jedi ninja]

Fondy, if fantasy is supposed to mimic sports, then teams have the right to do that.

Also, nothing is worse than when teams stop trying after week 7, so I am in favor of incentivizing not finishing last. In our league, we have a trophy that the champ gets his name engraved on every year. the last place finisher has to pay for the engraving. so teams have reason to always try.

Teams out of the playoffs do not have the right to make waiver moves, do they? Once their season is over, they have to wait until the league allows them to make moves again as far as I understand. I may be wrong, but I don’t think teams out of the playoffs are allowed to pickup/trade players once their season is over.

It makes no sense that a team who isn’t playing a game would be allowed to make moves. In this case, 9th and 10th place don’t get the ability to make moves, that just seems silly...what are they making the moves for other than to be a dick? It isn’t like they keep the players next season, so there is absolutely no reason they should be allowed to make a move.

 

[KJ]

Teams out of the playoffs do not have the right to make waiver moves, do they? Once their season is over, they have to wait until the league allows them to make moves again as far as I understand. I may be wrong, but I don’t think teams out of the playoffs are allowed to pickup/trade players once their season is over.

It makes no sense that a team who isn’t playing a game would be allowed to make moves. In this case, 9th and 10th place don’t get the ability to make moves, that just seems silly...what are they making the moves for other than to be a dick? It isn’t like they keep the players next season, so there is absolutely no reason they should be allowed to make a move.

What if the #10 guy has a nice sized side wager with the #4 guy on total points this week? Or he bet on someone else to win the season? Side bets happen all the time in fantasy. Gamblers are notorious for being dicks, it's pretty much a compliment.

 

[jedi ninja]

What if the #10 guy has a nice sized side wager with the #4 guy on total points this week? Or he bet on someone else to win the season? Side bets happen all the time in fantasy. Gamblers are notorious for being dicks, it's pretty much a compliment.

Side bets have nothing to do with the league itself. Teams out of the playoffs don’t get to make moves. They aren’t playing, there is no need for them to make moves.

Not for nothing, but you admittedly don’t play fantasy sports. Why would someone have a side bet that someone else would win the league they’re involved in? That doesn’t make much sense. In this particular case, what bet would the 10th place team have with anyone? He isn’t involved in a game to have a point total.

 

[jedi ninja]

We do it where highest scorer each week gets $$ even if they are out of the playoffs, thorugh week 16. It helps keep teams active and no one can bitch if they make moves.

I also do it where based on how you finish the season, you get to pick where you want to draft in the first round the following year. Its a 8 team league so if i finish first, I have first choice of picks 1-8. We all love it and there is some strategy involved the following year. Some guys like the middle, end to get back to back, first, it adds more incentive to finish strong and play out the year. Oh and last place has to buy all the food for the draft (works if live draft)

That’s a cool way to do things. In that case, it makes sense that anyone can make a waiver claim.

 

[jedi ninja]

That's my thoughts. The teams season is completely over. His argument was he wanted to see how he would do against the playoff teams if he was still playing.

That’s a pretty weak argument. He wouldn’t need to actually make the move to see how he would do...he can just add the points of the defense he would have picked up to his roster’s points. It also wouldn’t explain why he would have picked up 2 defenses...unless the league starts 2 defenses (which seems incredibly unlikely).

 

[KJ]

Side bets have nothing to do with the league itself. Teams out of the playoffs don’t get to make moves. They aren’t playing, there is no need for them to make moves.

Not for nothing, but you admittedly don’t play fantasy sports. These side bets you’re talking about...I’ve never heard of such a thing. Why would someone have a side bet that someone else would win the league they’re involved in? That doesn’t make much sense. In this particular case, what bet would the 10th place team have with anyone? He isn’t involved in a game to have a point total.

This is the first year in two decades I haven't played. Don't worry about it, I've likely forgotten more than you know there but thanks for inquiry but your incessant little jabs don't go unnoticed. My word.

I know side bets that have gone on between two people heads up for more than the entire league is worth. Sorry that doesn't make sense to you, might check it out some time.

So...

Yes, side bets can and do have a lot to do with fantasy leagues. Maybe not this one, maybe so.

Yes, I've been in leagues where teams out of the playoffs (we didn't have playoffs in one, it was cumulative points, but there isn't just one way to play) do get to make moves.

Yes, they are playing, so there may be a need for them to make moves.

Moreover, maybe #4 fucked #10s wife and he wants to fuck him back?

Any more narrative you want to try to take some barb at me on so I can refute it? Stay in your lane. Prolly take it a tad lighter if you learn how to phrase things appropriately. Because I admittedly don't play fantasy sports. Thing is, I likely have since before you were possibly born. First fantasy baseball team was '92.

 

[jedi ninja]

This is the first year in two decades I haven't played. Don't worry about it, I've likely forgotten more than you know there but thanks for inquiry but your incessant little jabs don't go unnoticed. My word.

I know side bets that have gone on between two people heads up for more than the entire league is worth. Sorry that doesn't make sense to you, might check it out some time.

So...

Yes, side bets can and do have a lot to do with fantasy leagues. Maybe not this one, maybe so.

Yes, I've been in leagues where teams out of the playoffs (we didn't have playoffs in one, it was cumulative points, but there isn't just one way to play) do get to make moves.

Yes, they are playing, so there may be a need for them to make moves.

Moreover, maybe #4 fucked #10s wife and he wants to fuck him back?

Any more narrative you want to try to take some barb at me on so I can refute it? Stay in your lane. Prolly take it a tad lighter if you learn how to phrase things appropriately. Because I admittedly don't play fantasy sports. Thing is, I likely have since before you were possibly born. First fantasy baseball team was '92.

What side jabs and barbs are you taking about? I have no clue what you’re saying. I’m not trying to secretly do anything, just having a conversation (or so I thought). You just said in this thread that you don't do fantasy anymore. How in the holy hell would I know when you stopped playing fantasy? The fact is that you don't play anymore, which is why I said what I said. Sorry to offend you.

 

[jedi ninja]

What side jabs and barbs are you taking about? I have no clue what you’re saying. I’m not trying to secretly do anything, just having a conversation (or so I thought).

Back to the convo though. I understand side bets on which team would win...my point is what person would make a side bet, before the season started that ANOTHER team would win the league? That is what I said didn’t make sense, and it still doesn’t.

And again, if a team is playing in a game of course they can make moves. In this case, the team is not playing in a game.

 

[KJ]

Fine I'll keep it simple. Most I ever was involved with at once was four leagues, three differently scoring systems. In 3/4 there were side bets well beyond just the league. Commish can set it up however they want. Even if you have a 12 team league and only 8 are in the playoffs, it's not tough to figure out team 12's score if he wants late season wagers, including not finishing last. That does happen, and sometimes for a lot of money. A couple seasons a few years ago we set odds on every team in the playoffs and took side bets, pretty sure all teams were still allowed to compete whether in the playoffs or not (been at least 12 years, so not real sure but pretty sure).

Buncha games out there

 

[jedi ninja]

Fine I'll keep it simple. Most I ever was involved with at once was four leagues, three differently scoring systems. In 3/4 there were side bets well beyond just the league. Commish can set it up however they want. Even if you have a 12 team league and only 8 are in the playoffs, it's not tough to figure out team 12's score if he wants late season wagers, including not finishing last. That does happen, and sometimes for a lot of money. A couple seasons a few years ago we set odds on every team in the playoffs and took side bets, pretty sure all teams were still allowed to compete whether in the playoffs or not (been at least 12 years, so not real sure but pretty sure).

Buncha games out there

Fair enough. There aren't many leagues that I know of where teams who aren't in the playoffs have games during playoff weeks, unless the league is specifically set up with payouts or next year's draft order. In this case, teams 9 and 10 are not playing in a game, period. They shouldn't be making waiver claims. That's it, it seems simple to me. If your team is involved in a game, and has some type of stake for the league in that game, you can make waiver claims. If your team isn't playing, and it's not a keeper league, there is no reason for your team to be allowed to make moves.

Initially, I was responding to D-Woww saying that fantasy sports should mimic real life sports. Are teams out of the playoffs allowed to make waiver moves/trades, or do they have to wait until the waiting period is over for everyone to be able to make moves again? That was my initial point in all of this.

 

[jedi ninja]

Fine I'll keep it simple. Most I ever was involved with at once was four leagues, three differently scoring systems. In 3/4 there were side bets well beyond just the league. Commish can set it up however they want. Even if you have a 12 team league and only 8 are in the playoffs, it's not tough to figure out team 12's score if he wants late season wagers, including not finishing last. That does happen, and sometimes for a lot of money. A couple seasons a few years ago we set odds on every team in the playoffs and took side bets, pretty sure all teams were still allowed to compete whether in the playoffs or not (been at least 12 years, so not real sure but pretty sure).

Buncha games out there

But as far as the 12 team league in your example where 8 teams make the playoffs. "Not finishing last" is already decided when the playoffs start, based on their regular season record...no?

 

[KJ]

But as far as the 12 team league in your example where 8 teams make the playoffs. "Not finishing last" is already decided when the playoffs start, based on their regular season record...no?

Not if you don't want it to be

If you think 9-12 weren't gambling those weeks on their teams, that's where some of the best money was

 

[KJ]

Never played in a keeper league nor a league where last was penalized other than side wagers

 

[jedi ninja]

Not if you don't want it to be

If you think 9-12 weren't gambling those weeks on their teams, that's where some of the best money was

Gambling on what though? Were they involved in games? If we're talking about mythical games, that aren't actually acknowledged by the league, then I think we're talking about a very small percentage of fantasy leagues. I actually don't know what you're talking about at all.

Not finishing last seems to have a pretty concrete definition. If you're talking about guys playing games that don't really count in order to not finish last in their minds, then I'm not sure what we're talking about. It's a little confusing.

 

[KJ]

Still required transaction fees paid to league if I recall even though they weren't out of playoffs. But fees weren't close to what the wagers were.

One league we had two brothers who always agreed to bet each other over who finished higher through 17 weeks, amount of wager was total league pot, so total of 1st, 2nd and 3rd including transactions (which were $10 add/$10 drop) so it got up there.

 

[jedi ninja]

Still required transaction fees paid to league if I recall even though they weren't out of playoffs. But fees weren't close to what the wagers were.

One league we had two brothers who always agreed to bet each other over who finished higher through 17 weeks, amount of wager was total league pot, so total of 1st, 2nd and 3rd including transactions (which were $10 add/$10 drop) so it got up there.

This doesn't make any sense to what we were talking about with league games. Were the games these people were apparently involved in, actual league games? Like, when you went on the site, were there games actually listed and scored by the league? If so, then waivers seems fine. In this case, teams 9 and 10 are NOT involved in league games, and that is what I've been saying all along. If the games are actually listed on the site, and have some meaning to the league, then of fucking course they can make waiver claims. If they aren't, they can't. Seems pretty easy to follow in my opinion.

 

[jedi ninja]

Still required transaction fees paid to league if I recall even though they weren't out of playoffs. But fees weren't close to what the wagers were.

One league we had two brothers who always agreed to bet each other over who finished higher through 17 weeks, amount of wager was total league pot, so total of 1st, 2nd and 3rd including transactions (which were $10 add/$10 drop) so it got up there.

And by finished higher in this case, I assume you mean total points? Only way it would make sense.

 

[KJ]

You do understand that most leagues create their own rules right? Who said anything about a site?

We're adults, we do what we want. Never played solely by some site rules, use them for draft and scoring only. Whatev, move on.

Most people I know would gamble on whether you reply to this post.

 

[jedi ninja]

You do understand that most leagues create their own rules right? Who said anything about a site?

We're adults, we do what we want. Never played solely by some site rules, use them for draft and scoring only. Whatev, move on.

Most people I know would gamble on whether you reply to this post.

Lol. Now you're dictating what I can reply to? Gimme a break.

Are we going back to the days when leagues were done by hand, on paper? Every single fantasy league in the past decade has been done on a site of some sort. You do realize that you can customize the rules on any site you host the league on right? I'm sorry, but you've lost the plot. Have a nice night sir.

 

[KJ]

Lol. Now you're dictating what I can reply to? Gimme a break.

LMFAO :cheers3:

 

[jedi ninja]

LMFAO :cheers3:

Yep, they won the bet. I had a side bet with them for half of the cash.

 

[detroit187]

I had a side bet against the guys I was playing the last two weeks actually. I had already clinched division and was playing for basically nothing otherwise and the one guy I played already clinched his 2 or 3 spot and the other guy was already eliminated. I went 0-2, go figure.

 

[KJ]

We bet on everything at the Phoenix Open, amazing how creative you can get with booze and any contest. Way better than a night of cards...side bets at live sporting events are incredible, best when you're with someone that doesn't understand odds but insists on gambling

 

[GWarner27]

if you have something to play for (money, draft picks, etc) it's cool, if not you should not be involved in waivers and probably shouldn't do FA pickups either