The 'Stons Journey Back to the Postseason...

B.A.R.

B.A.R.

CTG Partner
Staff member
So, it has been about 8 years since my boys have really been in contention for the playoffs. The last playoff bid for me was a write-off. Currently, they are slated 8th and up on the Chicago Bulls. The teams have the same amount of losses but Detroit has two extra games in tow, which were also wins.

Here is the rest of the schedule...



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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]@ Washington Wizards [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 16[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Atlanta Hawks [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 18[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Sacramento Kings [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 19[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Brooklyn Nets [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 21[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Milwaukee Bucks [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 23[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Orlando Magic [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 25[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Charlotte Hornets [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 26[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Atlanta Hawks [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Mar 29[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Oklahoma City Thunder [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Apr 1[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Dallas Mavericks [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Apr 2[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]@ Chicago Bulls [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Apr 5[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]@ Miami Heat [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Apr 6[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]@ Orlando Magic [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Apr 8[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Washington Wizards [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Apr 12[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg1 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]Miami Heat [/TD]
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[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 cellTextNorm padLeft"]Apr 13[/TD]
[TD="class: viCellBg2 cellBorderL1 headerTextNorm padLeft"]@ Cleveland Cavaliers [/TD]
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That is one lengthy home-stand and that should determine many things. They also have a H2H with Chicago left. And, they get maybe a gimme at end @ Cleveland resting for playoffs.

This should be interesting, and I hope this is the next step. We'll see if they are ready for primetime. I'll be tracking in this thread. There should be a few spots to make some bets.
 
Interesting final game, with Cleveland maybe able to choose their rival for the first round...
Huge game for Pistons against the Wizards. If they win, they can end Wizards playoff hopes and have it easier in the last meeting between the two on April 8th.
 
Predictive simulations give the 'Stons a 75+% chance at making the playoffs and give the Bulls a 17.8% chance.

SVG > The Mayor.
 
I know it's every CTG NBA-Guy's hot button, but I forget. You want them in the playoffs or the lottery, BAR?
 
tipyerbartender said:
What a long, strange trip it's been.
Click to expand...

photo.jpg
 
tipyerbartender said:
I know it's every CTG NBA-Guy's hot button, but I forget. You want them in the playoffs or the lottery, BAR?
Click to expand...


In this case, playoffs to get experience. They are a young and up n coming team.

For a team with vets that is happy to slide in at 6-8 seed, you want lottery.
 
Pistons would be more fun in the playoffs than the Bulls.

Cavs v 'Stons would be worth watching.
 
Put tonight down to youth and the last game of a road trip. Young teams look real bad when they pick their spots not to show up.

They'll be all good. 9-game home stand begins where they can easily go 7-2, thinking 6-3 at the very worst.

Worst thing that happened for the 'Stons was the banged-up Bulls beating Toronto with Ken Mauer getting credited for the assist.
 
emkee said:
Put tonight down to youth and the last game of a road trip. Young teams look real bad when they pick their spots not to show up.

They'll be all good. 9-game home stand begins where they can easily go 7-2, thinking 6-3 at the very worst.

Worst thing that happened for the 'Stons was the banged-up Bulls beating Toronto with Ken Mauer getting credited for the assist.
Click to expand...

I know, I am pissed about that.

'We The North', lol. They got hats and shit. Cracked me up when they were in town the first time here.
 
Tough swing last night as Bulls now in driver seat. If Butler is back this team won't continue to play under .500. Relatively easy schedule and a little homestand coming. I'd like to see the Bulls get the 7 and sweep Toronto as it's just a bad matchup and become the 2 seed after the first round. Going to be tough but Indiana is struggling and looks tired, too.
 
B.A.R. said:
I know, I am pissed about that.

'We The North', lol. They got hats and shit. Cracked me up when they were in town the first time here.
Click to expand...
Really not pleased myself as I went crazy and played Toronto in a ML parlay
 
Haven't the Stons given the Brons a little trouble this season? Couple wins, I think.
 
WORDS OF CAUTION
Even after the victory, Van Gundy was miffed at his team's problems on defense.
''We got the win tonight, against not a great team that was down on people, but if we're going to make a push at the playoffs, we're going to have to defend,'' he said. ''If we keep defending the way we've been defending, we will not make it.''
 
2-1 on homestand...

They need to finish this 7-2...and come off it with a game at Chicago.

The funny thing here is they play ATL twice on same homestand.
 
B.A.R. said:
WORDS OF CAUTION
Even after the victory, Van Gundy was miffed at his team's problems on defense.
''We got the win tonight, against not a great team that was down on people, but if we're going to make a push at the playoffs, we're going to have to defend,'' he said. ''If we keep defending the way we've been defending, we will not make it.''
Click to expand...

In their first 41 games, Detroit conceded 110+ pts 4 times (once every 10.25 games).
In their last 29 games, Detroit's conceded 110+ pts 11 times (once every 2.64 games)

In their first 38 games, Detroit conceded 100+ pts 14 times (once every 2.71 games).
In their last 32 games, Detroit's conceded 100+ pts 23 times (once every 1.39 games)
 
i would rather have a lottery pick than a first round playoff exit. "playoff experience" of getting swept in the first round isn't as valuable as a 1% chance at the #1 pick.
 
orangemonk said:
i would rather have a lottery pick than a first round playoff exit. "playoff experience" of getting swept in the first round isn't as valuable as a 1% chance at the #1 pick.
Click to expand...


Are you talking from a fan perspective, a player perspective or a team management perspective?
 
Obviously players and teams want to make the playoffs for the financial reasons. If you're talking about from a fans perspective that's your right and opinion. But I think it's complete Bs if you don't think experience and confidence gets better with playoff games. Complete bullshit.

Bottom line is no player or team is going to stop fighting for a spot if it's within reach the last few games of the season. So the argument isn't even worth having
 
Any team in the East is a 7th seed away from making a run to the EC finals or potentially a finals if the Cavs implode from within... which is entirely possible.

Bulls for example as a 7th seed would be great for the NBA... if they get healthy and matchup with Cleveland it will be a good series.

I'd much rather see that than them get the 13th pick in the draft.

And I'm sure Detroit fans would too..

Now that 8th seed... I don't know. I'd rather see Cleveland somehow meet Miami in Round 2 and avoid that with the 2/7 seed. You know the stories out of that series won't be positive for Lebron and that team.
 
Pretty sure it's really only a question of the Warriors/Spurs matchups. Nobody really thinks the cavs are definitely sweeping whoever is in the 8th seed. The raptors are playing the best ball in the east and its not even close imo. In the real world it doesn't work like how fans want it to.
 
nbafan88 said:
Are you talking from a fan perspective, a player perspective or a team management perspective?
Click to expand...

As a fan who wants what's best for the team in the long run. Dont care about 2 playoff games for a rich owner. Would rather have the better pick, thus a chance at better talent.
 
That was a must win tonight and after shooting like crap all game the made the impossible happen. They actually held a team under 95 points and what a terrible last possession shot but the tip saved the season.
 
orangemonk said:
As a fan who wants what's best for the team in the long run. Dont care about 2 playoff games for a rich owner. Would rather have the better pick, thus a chance at better talent.
Click to expand...


I made that thread 4-6 weeks back I believe about what is best.

For an up and coming team, everything is a 'process'. You can look at both great eras of Detroit basketball and see this. This isn't a team of middling/and or aging veterans that will lose in first round. This is a solid nucleus that can build into something better. They need the experience of a playoff series. And, as bad as they are defensively they can win a game or two in the East. An a few exciting playoff games for first time this decade helps the fan base even more as well.

Baby steps, Baby steps...
 
It's not just that. I believe that for a team like the Pistons, that is still forming the roster, playoff seed this season and decent performance, can really help on free agent market. I'm pretty sure that Monroe wouldn't have chosen Bucks over Knicks if Bucks wouldn't have shown great potential last season. This team looked like they will take another step forward this season and battle for the 4th seed in the East and not two steps back...
Detroit can have the same advantage, with proven coach, young roster with two potential stars and already a playoff team...
 
nbafan88 said:
Obviously players and teams want to make the playoffs for the financial reasons. If you're talking about from a fans perspective that's your right and opinion. But I think it's complete Bs if you don't think experience and confidence gets better with playoff games. Complete bullshit.

Bottom line is no player or team is going to stop fighting for a spot if it's within reach the last few games of the season. So the argument isn't even worth having
Click to expand...

Playoff experience is completely over rated and mythical. We've had this convo before, and it's an interesting one. Show some type of proof that playoff experience means anything at all. If the proof can't be shown, it's just a myth that losing teams and fans like to throw around like a catch phrase.
 
Lareux said:
Playoff experience is completely over rated and mythical. We've had this convo before, and it's an interesting one. Show some type of proof that playoff experience means anything at all. If the proof can't be shown, it's just a myth that losing teams and fans like to throw around like a catch phrase.
Click to expand...

Proof? 99% of the champions win the title after at least reaching the playoffs the season before. How many teams won the title, without making it to the playoffs at least for one season?
 
Lareux said:
Playoff experience is completely over rated and mythical. We've had this convo before, and it's an interesting one. Show some type of proof that playoff experience means anything at all. If the proof can't be shown, it's just a myth that losing teams and fans like to throw around like a catch phrase.
Click to expand...

Your wrong here bud. Young players/teams need to go through the trials and errors at some point.
 
Pistons have basically got their 'team' for the next few seasons, so in this instance making the playoffs is extremely valuable going forward.

The way they are built they could give the Cavs an actual series. Will be fun to watch (and bet).
 
divol said:
Proof? 99% of the champions win the title after at least reaching the playoffs the season before. How many teams won the title, without making it to the playoffs at least for one season?
Click to expand...

Just because they made the playoffs the year before means nothing unless you can prove that them losing somehow made them better. You know what else every team did that won a title? Got better players and their players got better themselves. Saying that them losing a playoff series the year before helped them is nothing but lip service unless it can be proven somehow.

Just because 99% of teams made the playoffs the year before also isn't proof. Were their rosters identical to the year before? Did they add any pieces? Was their road to the championship easier than previous years? All of these things factor in, and just calling it playoff experience is, again, just some nice lip service that makes guys feel good or something.
 
B.A.R. said:
Your wrong here bud. Young players/teams need to go through the trials and errors at some point.
Click to expand...

They don't need to at all. The Heat didn't go through that when they won. Them losing a year before didn't mean a damn thing...they just got better, added prices, and played better when they won. The Warriors added pieces to get better and improved themselves. The Spurs aren't winning titles because they lost in the playoffs in years past.

Who else has won a title recently that you guys can point to and say they won because they got "playoff experience" the previous year? Most teams change so frequently anyway, how does that experience pay off if some of the players from the previous year are gone? Do the new acquisitions just get that experience through osmosis, or do they also need to get playoff experience before they win?

If I'm wrong, it should be easy to prove. Trials and errors I would agree with, but that goes for any player in any sport...those trials and errors don't have to be done in the playoffs though, I'm not sure why that makes sense.
 
The guys at Grantland did a couple of features on the myth of playoff experience in the past. One of them specifically dealt with the MLB but it would be the same in any sport.
 
Lar, examples like the Heat, the KG Celtics, other "big threes" thrown together (sadly the Cavs only came close) don't really count here. Or they count, but assembling a super team overnight isn't very common. For the lowly commoners, the playoff lumps have always been stepping stones to building champs. The players and coaches themselves say this. You think Jordan's Bulls didn't benefit from all those outs to the Pistons and Celtics? Those losing series were motivational and educational. Gretzky's Oilers say their light bulb switched when the Islanders beat the tar out of 'em the first time Edmonton made the finals. Gretzky and Messier talked about how they learned the Islanders, with plenty of reason to be complacent, wanted it more.

Baseball's different. It's a team sport much more comprised of a million individual skills and performances within a game. An infield working together can be poetry in motion, but for the most part it's 9 guys doing their own thing. Adding one great pitcher at the right time actually can turn an also-ran into a champion. (Although that one-great-pitcher signing north of 100-mill usually turns into a disaster.)

You're right that good players trump everything, but you're wrong that playoff experience doesn't matter. At least in that sport.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Lar, examples like the Heat, the KG Celtics, other "big threes" thrown together (sadly the Cavs only came close) don't really count here. Or they count, but assembling a super team overnight isn't very common. For the lowly commoners, the playoff lumps have always been stepping stones to building champs. The players and coaches themselves say this. You think Jordan's Bulls didn't benefit from all those outs to the Pistons and Celtics? Those losing series were motivational and educational. Gretzky's Oilers say their light bulb switched when the Islanders beat the tar out of 'em the first time Edmonton made the finals. Gretzky and Messier talked about how they learned the Islanders, with plenty of reason to be complacent, wanted it more.

Baseball's different. It's a team sport much more comprised of a million individual skills and performances in a game. An infield working together can be poetry in motion, but for the most part it's 9 guys doing their own thing. Adding one great pitcher at the right time actually can turn an also-ran into a champion. (Although that one-great-pitcher signing north of 100-mill usually turns into a disaster.)

You're right that good players trump everything, but you're wrong that playoff experience doesn't matter. At least in that sport.
Click to expand...

Tip, I don't disagree that those teams you mentioned said that's what helped them win. It's all feel good talk though...they won because they got better and got better players. Of course they would say what they said, it's seems like the easy thing to say and makes fans happy for some reason. "They wanted it more" is not the same thing as playoff experience either, it sounds like they realize they were outplayed and did everything in their power in future years to be the team that wanted it more themselves...that's just hard work and getting better as players. You've also gone back to the early 80s and 90s to find me an example.

Specifically in the NBA, the last 2 decades of champions were pretty much built by acquiring better players on their teams, which then led to them winning. Jordan was the best player in the league, the Bulls didn't win because they lost in previous years, they won because they had the best player who continued to get better as his career went on.

And, again, it's great that you want to tell me I'm wrong, but until you prove it somehow, it's just talk. The Grantland guys provided their reasoning for why playoff experience in baseball is a myth, where's the reasoning/proof from the other side of the argument?
 
He got better, and he got edgier. From all the losing to tougher teams. Was his first championship team really a lot better than his last playoff losing team. It was his time, but he and the Bulls earned it the hard way.
 
tipyerbartender said:
He got better, and he got edgier. From all the losing to tougher teams. Was his first championship team really a lot better than his last playoff losing team. It was his time, but he and the Bulls earned it the hard way.
Click to expand...

Well I don't know off the top of my head, but that's on you to show if they were or were not. They certainly added Dennis Rodman at some point as well as other pieces, so again, they just got better.
 
Yeah, I said playoff experience matters very little in baseball. I wouldn't kick it out of bed, but I'd prefer three aces and a good bullpen that's never been in the playoffs.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Yeah, I said playoff experience matters very little in baseball. I wouldn't kick it out of bed, but I'd prefer three aces and a good bullpen that's never been in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Right, my bad, I misunderstood the baseball comments. I'd argue it may matter even less in the other sports, just based on the results from each league for the past 20 years.
 
The Bills here in Buffalo would probably agree that playoff experience doesn't mean jack shit. They went to 4 straight Super Bowls and lost em all. Wouldn't their experience have put them over the top to win one?

Also, how do we quantify this playoff experience? If 2 teams are facing each other with the same amount of mythical experience, do we just point at the team who wins and say "see, their experience helped them," all the while ignoring the team who lost with the same experience? None of this is quantify-able, so it's hard to agree that it exists.
 
Kind of evolves. You're right that I had to go back a ways, but I'm an old guy. (With a young soul?)

Football champs seem to depend either on having one of the five or six good quarterbacks in the league at that moment and/or the best defense. "Team playoff experience" seems to matter very little anymore. I think it matters in the NBA for all the teams that don't throw together a super team overnight, just because it's such a team game. I would think it still matters in hockey, but I only check in for the Stanley Cup playoffs. Can't tell you who's good or terrible.
 
Specifically talking about the NBA and your comments that the teams thrown together don't really count because it doesn't happen often...of course it counts, that is seemingly how the past 15 years worth of NBA champions were built. When is the last time a team won that didn't have a few superstars on their team? The Warriors didn't put it together like the others, but they still have those players which is why they won.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Kind of evolves. You're right that I had to go back a ways, but I'm an old guy. (With a young soul?)

Football champs seem to depend either on having one of the five or six good quarterbacks in the league at that moment and/or the best defense. "Team playoff experience" seems to matter very little anymore. I think it matters in the NBA for all the teams that don't throw together a super team overnight, just because it's such a team game. I would think it still matters in hockey, but I only check in for the Stanley Cup playoffs. Can't tell you who's good or terrible.
Click to expand...

But again, when is the last time an NBA team won a title that didn't have those pieces? How they were acquired isn't really the point, but most of the teams you're going to find DID put their team together like you're saying.
 
Lareux said:
The Bills here in Buffalo would probably agree that playoff experience doesn't mean jack shit. They went to 4 straight Super Bowls and lost em all. Wouldn't their experience have put them over the top to win one?

Also, how do we quantify this playoff experience? If 2 teams are facing each other with the same amount of mythical experience, do we just point at the team who wins and say "see, their experience helped them," all the while ignoring the team who lost with the same experience? None of this is quantify-able, so it's hard to agree that it exists.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be quantifiable. How do you quantify how much Ailman or Manning learned by sucking in their first seasons? How do you quantify learning and motivation and the value of familiarity with a situation?

As for the Bills, they took their learning lumps in Cleveland in the playoffs prior to being kings of the AFC. I was at that one. Great game.

And to your point, those Browns never parlayed their lessons against Elway to get over that hump.

And to my point, those Browns had to lose in the first round in Miami before losing those championship games to Elway.

There can be only one champ, but that doesn't mean teams that never win it all don't progress, advance further, before the window shuts.
 
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