The G-Men

BlitzBandit

BlitzBandit

Friend of CTG
Just thought I'd open up some thoughts and previews on some teams... and what better team to start with then the BIG BLUE WRECKING CREW... hehe... that should get BAR, YesSir, brewer, C-Money, Joe, Believe, and some of you other DIEHARD Giant fans jumping up for joy... ;)


so here goes...



Starting things off with everyones' favorite topic.. Eli Manning. I'm going to get straight to the point here. He is NOT Peyton Manning, so let's not bother comparing. Afterall, there is only ONE Peyton Manning, period. With that aside, Eli is a good quarterback who does have the potential to lead his team deep into the playoffs, but because it hasn't happened yet, many seem to find it easy to blame him for that. That's just crap.

People also say how Eli is going to determine how well this team does, but I disagree. He is not the problem to this team and he is not the salvation for it either. The way I see it, he is not the one responsible for motivating this team (Coughlin). He is not the one blocking for himself. He is not in the secondary dropping potential interceptions. He is not the one rushing the passer, nor is he the trainer trying to cure as many injuries as they faced last year. Once the team can get their shit together and play like they were at the start of last season when everyone was healthy, then the 2007 season will look to be a great one, if they can't do that, then I won't expect much more than a 50% season.

Eli has the stats on paper to show he is a good quarterback. The problem was his accuracy and his inconsistent play. His footwork wasn't great at times, but I have to say that for the most part, it was fine. It was mainly those times when he would feel the pressure and throw forced balls that he wouldn't be comfortable in the pocket and wouldn't plant his feet correctly. Those were the times when he looked like crap. He ranked top 5 worst in underthrows and in overthrows last season, which is probably where alot of the "Eli Sucks" theories come in. The thing is, he threw alot of forced balls under pressure. That's also the reason the O-line only allowed 25 sacks last season (6th ranked) even though they suffered through injuries. He would always get rid of it quickly or just throw it away when he felt heat, even if the pressure was not even really there.

The worst part is, the O-Line is currently without a left tackle. Luke Petitgout went to Tampa and Bob Whitfield retired. That means they will move Diehl from guard to left tackle to protect Elis' blindside.. I know, a bit of a scary thought. The O-Lines' production this season is what is going to determine alot for Eli and his production. Unfortunately, he is not blessed with the O-Line of say San Diego or New England. Either way, Eli should mature this season. He will probably see more passing production now that Tiki is gone. Some people have been talking about Lorenzen and Wright, but the bottom line is.. so long as Eli's healthy, there's no point. They'll cross that bridge when they get to it.

Brandon Jacobs is going to be the horse for the G-Men. He's built like a fucking defensive lineman, and he's taking shit seriously so far. He got after Robert Douglas' ass for dogging it during practice already. That's shit tiki wouldn't do. Plus Gilbride has already hinted he would like to get him the ball 20-25 times a game. Not sure that happens, but just the thought of Gilbride thinking it says something. The guy can run over people. Not sure exactly the production he can pull out on the long run, but barring injury and barring a rb committee sheme, I don't see why he can't have double digit tds and over 1000 yards.

Plaxi is still plaxi. He's fortunate to be the featured receiver on a team that was ranked in the top half of the league in passing attempts. And may get even higher now with tiki gone. The guy has good size, speed, and athleticism, but he needs to find ways to get himself open. That's more important than all those attributes. Receivers like Jerry Rice and Tim Carter were not the fastest, tallest, or more athletic in the league, but they were the best at getting open and they had hands of glue. But that was then, this is now when all qbs' want is a tall receiver where they can just drop back two quick steps and lob it up into the endzone... oh well.. at least Plaxi can do that. I guess that's why it's no shock he was ranked fourth among receivers in passes overthrown... hehe.


The G-Men relied primarily in their defensive front to generate a pass rush last season. The front four was responsible for over seventy percent of their sacks which was about ten percent more than the league average. Strahan and Osi are arguably the best duet at defensive ends in the league. Strahans' decision of retiring is still up in the air, at least last I heard, but odds are, he'll end up playing. Either way, it's not the front seven that's the concern. It's the secondary. Hopefully Aaron Ross and James Butler will have a say in that for them. Cause let's face it, their secondary needs help bad. Sam Madison was nothing great to look at. I heard Corey Webster and R.W. McQuarters were both beating him out for the position in camp and Gibril Wilson was moved to free safety.

Overall, I figure they win between 8-10 wins. Coughlin sucks in my opinion. All this talk of him coming in and adding discipline to the team was all horseshit. There are alot of players on the team that don't even have respect for him anymore. How the hell do you expect to win that way?? In the three years under Coughlin, they have been to the playoffs twice, but the reality is they only had one winning season in those three years. The other playoff appearance was off an 8-8 record where they had a wild-card loss to the Eagles. I don't know why the hell they re-signed him for one more year... well... actually... isn't Belicheck's contract up after this season... hmm.. maybe that's what they were thinking... ;)
 
i like u guys in sunday night football +4 at dallas. you have a take on that game yet.
 
Coaches like Coughlin IMO at the pro level are goo for 1-2 years to add discipline to a team then let a different coach finish off the "5 year program"(being cliche)
 
brewer said:
i like u guys in sunday night football +4 at dallas. you have a take on that game yet.
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I do like them... kinda weird they would give them more than three points... both teams always seem to play well against each other and you just get the feel that it's coming down to a field goal... plus Jacobs had a monster game against the boys last year. Shockey always seems to play well against them too. One thing we can probably count on is a couple of turnovers that will create scoring opportunities. I think this one will end up going over. Mainly because the defenses will step up... not in a bend but don't break way, but in a go for the interception return for a td kind of a way.. hehe. In the first meeting last season, Bledsoe had 0 tds and 1 interception.. so they benched his ass and Romo came in to throw 2 tds and 3 picks... Manning threw a pick as well with 2 tds. That's 5 picks in one game. That's not including the fumble Tiki lost in their own 14 yard line. The second meeting wasn't much better. Romo had 2 ints. One was intercepted by Kiwi, but while he was returning it, he fumbled and gave it back to Dallas at their own 40... that's just the shit you expect from these teams. Should be a good one to watch though.
 
1. Losing Bob Whitfield is a good thing. The guy was the human headbutter. Diehl wasn't bad a LT, and maybe the team has high plans for an athletic Guy Whimper.
2. Don't underestimate Brandon Jacobs. He was the best backup RB in the league last year, and he can do some things that Tiki can't. You also were dead on with his "leadership". He makes a nice run and starts firing people up. He threw david akers down like a bitch, and he won't run to the media and undermine his coach like Tiki did ( like him or not), I got sick of the whole Tiki farewell tour.
3. I can't stand Plaxico Burress
4. You meant Cris Carter, not the weak handed Tim Carter who the Giants traded for reuben droughns.
5. The Giants got rid of their bum defensive coordinator, for a guy that will actually blitz, I am curious to see if Kiwinuka turns into a junior demarcus ware at the sam spot.
6. Strahan owes his babys mama too much damn money to quit, he needs to stfu and get to camp and then stfu there.
7. Eli has thrown 48 td passes in the past 2 years ( top 5 in the nfl), and has led his team to the playoffs twice. The carolina game the TEAM, just got their asses beat, but the Eagles game wasn't his fault at all.
8. I hope the starting corners are 2 of the 3... Aaron Ross if he is ready and then either RW or Webster. Sam Madison didn't impress me last year, and will demps freaking sucks. I don't remember much about Butler, but at this point in time I'd rather see anyone than will demps. I thought he was a bad signing from day 1.

I give Jerry Reese an A+ for the offeseason and here is why
1. Didn't fire the head coach, the team is pretty good and a giant shake up could be a disaster.
2. Didn't waste all his money on some overpriced runningback to "fill the tiki void", Jacobs deserved his chance and got it. Running backs are relativly fungible, and Jacobs already knows the offense.
3. Didn't draft a LT if a good enough one wasn't there, they replace injury Luke internally and drafted to fix the weakness of corner.
4. Got rid of Tim Lewis, this defense has horses to create pressure, and they brought in a pressure guy. More turnovers should help the offense next year.
5. Brought in a vet backup for Jacobs.
6. Drafted another receiver ( which I felt they needed).

so I credit Reese mostly with what he didn't do.
 
Tim Carter... haha, I can't even believe I wrote that shit. I must've been thinking Cris and typing Tim... no way Tim deserves to even be mentioned in the same breath as Cris Carter... afterall, all Cris did was catch tds.. lol.

I don't really care for Luke Petitgout being gone... the guy was a bit overrated in my opinion and had a shitload of false starts under his belt. I agree about Whitfield. He was not a big loss at all. Coughlin had to bench his ass late last year and moved Diehl over to his spot. I'm sure Diehl can handle the position, but it would have been more comforting to have filled the spot with someone who has had experience there instead of relying on a guard to cover Eli's blind side. The thing with Whimper is that he's known to have poor footwork. Russ Lande criticized him because he would stop his feet when he'd make contact causing him to lose his block. That's not exactly someone you want protecting the blindside of your franchise quarterback.

There's no doubt that Jacobs is capable of tearing things up this season, the thing is the guy doesn't back down from anything. They also said that in practice he literally ran over Pierce and Gibril Wilson in a way tiki never would have been able to. Plus the guy has good hands to catch. The thing with him is that we don't know how durable he is. He was a backup at Auburn and he wasn't a workhorse or anything at Southern Illinois. And this season, he will not be coming into the game against tired defenses that tiki already warmed up for him. I'm not saying he can't handle it, because I am more than confident that he can, but with his 'here I come straight at you' running style, I hope he doesn't end up injured.
 
By the way, as much as I don't care for Coughlin, I do have to say that he is a plus for Jacobs. As long as he's there, the Giants are sure to run early and often.
 
Brandon Jacobs has a 97 break tackles in madden...

Antionio Pierce was very generously given an 85 speed rating... no fucking way, he is a good player, but he does not have 85 speed.

Sam Madison is ranked an 87... that high of a rating is based on his name in my opinion. I thought RW played better than him last year and is ranked the 4th best corner in Madden... an 80.

Kiwi is ranked 84 as a linebacker.

Sinorice Moss has a 95 speed. I like that.
 
Giants offense is very good.. they have the potential to be outstanding.. granted the line can hold its own, we shouldn't have to worry too much about the O...


For those of you who saw the preseason game, the concern is now the defense.. Strahan needs to get back, but hes only one little spec of the D... I actually love Justin Tuck at D-end, and hes the future there.. The interior D got torn up a bit, but with Coughlin moving William Joseph to D-tackle that shud help a little bet (lets hope)..

Will Demps is getting rotated in with the 1st team again, which is a good thing because he played real well.. the rotation of demps, butler, and gibril wilson will probably be common during the season... the corners looked out of position and hopefully in time they will get sharper on their assignments...

a lot of the big plays were given up by rookie defensive backs, so that sort of disgustingingly bad D SHOUDLNT happen during the season..

Kiwi looked out of position, but it was a positive step for him lining up there.. he needs his reps and the more he gets the better.. the more reps the more his insticts will become a regular habit and then his freakish athletic ability will terrorize quarterbacks..


this defense will (should, better, PLEASE!) come together during the preseason and be comfortable by week one.. I like that they are all energized and "revamped" about this new aggresive defensive outlook, they just need to make sure it doesn't leave them out of position like it did vs. Carolina..


This could be a very underrated Giants team that comes out firing.. It's a team searching for its identity without Tiki Barber, and hopefully some veterans can step up.



Love the Giants week one.
 
I was looking at the Madden video game...

Antionio Pierce had 85 speed
Zak Deossie had 78 speed.

Keep in Mind that Deossie just ran a 4.5 at the NFL combine,
Pierce MIGHT be able to run a 4.7, but probably runs a 4.8

I used to talk about NFL players, and my friend would say things like... Deangleo Hall is good... he has 96 speed in Madden.

Looking at Pierce and Deossie's speed reverasal should tell you something about the game.

How could Deossie run a 4.5 and get 78 speed?
Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.6 and he doesn't have 75 speed
Dwayne Jarret ran a 4.7 and he doesn't have 70 speed?

I think the game just adjusts peoples "speed" with their percieved talent/looks.
 
speed and quickness are two different things.. i guess it might be able to be accounted for that? but ya, seems a bit off
 
That is why in Madden they have...
speed
acceleration
agility

which are all important in real life 'speed".

I would think of speed as running a 40 in a straight line ( in which Deossie ran a 4.5, and Pierce could maybe run 4.7 downhill, more like 4.8). Dwayne Jarret was clocked at 4.8 and plays receiver. I didn't see his speed rating, but I'll poop my pants if it is 77 or less.

acceleration would be picking up speed, but it should really be based more on explosion... what you want out of defenders. Defense is about reacting, and moving quickly to adjust to your opponent.

agility is shiftyness. I really feel that a guy like Tiki Barber or Warrick Dunn would be outstanding in Agility ( and are known as fast), but I don't see these guys as having such high top speed. Barber might run a 4.6, but he is considered "fast", because he is so damn agile. He doesn't have willie parker straight away speed, but that agility makes him fast.

So real life "speed" is really more like a combination of agility, straight ahead speed, and acceleration, but that game is pretty damn off to have Deossie at under 80 ( with a 4.5) and Pierce at 85. Pierce looked real slow last year.
 
good point about Tiki and Dunn...

their agility and awareness makes them look like speedburners... Just because you are all over the field and can make people miss doesn't mean you are fast as hell... but it sure looks that way.. hehe.
 
Somebody was saying that Vince Young could run a faster 40 than Reggie Bush...

Now Vince Young is tall (6'5 I presume), and is a strider. He has long strides which make him faster than he looks. He isn't nearly as agile as bush, and I don't think he could run a faster 40 but it is possible.

A guy like Bryan Westbrook is so damn agile like the tazmanian devil just spinning, and moving so damn fast, but that doesn't mean he is a blazer in the 40.

Generally the taller, striders have faster 40's ( Randy Moss)
while the shorter guys are "quicker", ( Santana Moss)


Tiki Barber really didn't look at that open field fast to me. I saw numerous plays where he got past the front 7, but people caught up to him later on downfield numerous times. If he had fast Willie Parker open field speed he would have had a hell of a lot more yards via the long TD run.
 
C-Gold said:
Somebody was saying that Vince Young could run a faster 40 than Reggie Bush...

Now Vince Young is tall (6'5 I presume), and is a strider. He has long strides which make him faster than he looks. He isn't nearly as agile as bush, and I don't think he could run a faster 40 but it is possible.

A guy like Bryan Westbrook is so damn agile like the tazmanian devil just spinning, and moving so damn fast, but that doesn't mean he is a blazer in the 40.

Generally the taller, striders have faster 40's ( Randy Moss)
while the shorter guys are "quicker", ( Santana Moss)


Tiki Barber really didn't look at that open field fast to me. I saw numerous plays where he got past the front 7, but people caught up to him later on downfield numerous times. If he had fast Willie Parker open field speed he would have had a hell of a lot more yards via the long TD run.
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that was kinda my point with tiki... he was agile and quick, but not a speedburner... I still remember that monster game he had last season against Washingon where he had two big runs of 50 yards or more and had over 200 total rushing yards. The thing is, in both of those runs he had some key blocks downfield and even like that he was almost caught from behind. In fact, if I remember correctly, I think he was even pushed into the endzone by a defender in one of those runs.

Vince Young ran the 40 in 4.5 and Bush ran a 4.3... and you are right about Westbrook.. If I remember correctly, I think he was clocked at 4.5 or something like that... as for the speed of Parker... I'm not sure what he does now, but I do remember a couple of years ago his speed was a big deal.. he was clocked at 4.2
 
husky17 said:
Giants offense is very good.. they have the potential to be outstanding.. granted the line can hold its own, we shouldn't have to worry too much about the O...


For those of you who saw the preseason game, the concern is now the defense.. Strahan needs to get back, but hes only one little spec of the D... I actually love Justin Tuck at D-end, and hes the future there.. The interior D got torn up a bit, but with Coughlin moving William Joseph to D-tackle that shud help a little bet (lets hope)..

Will Demps is getting rotated in with the 1st team again, which is a good thing because he played real well.. the rotation of demps, butler, and gibril wilson will probably be common during the season... the corners looked out of position and hopefully in time they will get sharper on their assignments...

a lot of the big plays were given up by rookie defensive backs, so that sort of disgustingingly bad D SHOUDLNT happen during the season..

Kiwi looked out of position, but it was a positive step for him lining up there.. he needs his reps and the more he gets the better.. the more reps the more his insticts will become a regular habit and then his freakish athletic ability will terrorize quarterbacks..


this defense will (should, better, PLEASE!) come together during the preseason and be comfortable by week one.. I like that they are all energized and "revamped" about this new aggresive defensive outlook, they just need to make sure it doesn't leave them out of position like it did vs. Carolina..


This could be a very underrated Giants team that comes out firing.. It's a team searching for its identity without Tiki Barber, and hopefully some veterans can step up.



Love the Giants week one.
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I wouldn't say not to worry about the O... I mean, the first team only had like 10 plays against carolina so more reps would help... specially with Diehl in there.. It be nice to see him get more reps... the better this line can be, the better for Manning...

They went and picked up two of the biggest FAs' they could find (Tui Alailefaleula, who is 6 feet 4 inches, and Manuel Wright, who is 6-5.. both are about 350 pounds) to help beef up the D-Line.. both are pretty much inexperienced and have been rejected and cut by other teams... not good. Not sure exactly what they are thinking here.

I agree about Kiwi getting reps... he played a bit with the first team and a bit with the second team and I believe they plan on using him as a DE on Nickel formations.. but you're right, the more reps, the better.

the season is still a bit up in the air for me.. It could be a great season, or it could go sour... I mean when you think about, you are talking about a team that lost Tiki Barber, Luke Petitgout, Bob Whitfield, and Lavar Arrington. Michael Strahan is getting old, the secondary has no major upgrades, and Kiwi is adjusting to a new position. All this can add up. The only reason I am still confident is mainly because all those players lost can all be replaced well and Kiwi can work on his mistakes. But its still going to take some work from everyone.

with all that said.. I too like them against Dallas.
 
absolutely.. and i think their still missing a clear locker-room presence leader who needs to bring this team together...

to me, it seems like theyre missing their identity..
 
lol Not to break up the Nintendo conversation but....

I disagree with an 8-10 win season....

I really do not see how Brandon Jacobs and Tiki Barber are being mentioned as Jacobs doing things that Tiki could not do. Lets not mistake that Tiki was a top 5 back in the league. Brandon Jacobs is a bruiser and has never been an every down back. He has shown to be tremendous on the goaline, in the red zone, and in 3rd in short situations. Jacobs was a great change of pace back but I am not sold that he will be a great featured back. Rueben Droughns was a good idea but he is the same type of runner as Jacobs, just smaller. Jacobs style of running might land him on the injured list again. Then if that happens, you have a Browns castaway as the number 1.

I agree that people need to leave Eli alone BUT he brought that on himself. He is the one that went John Elway and said he would not play in San Diego. I do not care about the line and WRs and all that other crap. Phillip Rivers (who NY essentially traded for Manning) is getting the job done and his team was 14-2. I agree that he will be a solid QB but I will continue to root against him and laugh when he struggles. I expect him to come out on fire again but fail at the end of the season (when it is do or die time).

I like their WRs a lot. I have always like Plaxico, because of his size and natural ability. Jeremey Shockey is a huge target and a Top 3 TE. They will have Amani Toomer back right? I love Sinorice Moss. He was criticized last year but was often hurt... Also, Steve Smith will just add depth to this core. I think they will be one of the elite receiving corps in the league.

Their line is always a question BUT everything I hear has David Diehl moving to tackle? Also, is Guy WHimper finally going to see some action. He was a third or fourth round pick last year. Everything I have seen, says he had a huge off season. I think the OL will improve as the year wears on, but in that division it might be too late....

We will see how good Osi Umenyiora really is (without Strahan). Will Strahan play? I have heard that he is keep himself in excellent shape...so we will see.

I like Antonio Pierce a lot...he uses his brain to make plays....Mathias Kiwanuka should fill in nice in the empty slot...

Secondary got stronger with the drafting of Aaron Ross...it needed too

Will Demps gets a free pass because of injuries but Sam Madison and Corey Webster need to step their game up.

I believe the Giants will struggle mightily this year. Eli will show his lack of a heart and will struggle as the season wears on. Aaron Ross will help the secondary but he is not going to take the number 28 pass defense and make them good. Their run defense was not that great last year either and if they lose Strahan it will be bad, very bad.

I do not see a way they win more than 7 games.... I think more of 5-11 here...but hey thats just one man's opinion :Cheers:
 
here is what i have on the giants ...

6-10 next year
- lose their identity at rb and puts more pressure on eli
- think their offense will be one of the worst in the nfl with the loss of tiki. unless they can prove to me that they have someone who can carry it for 1,200 yards and haul in 50 balls (tiki did that 5 seasons in a row).
- droughns doesnt impress me at all and would be shocked if he does anything for them next year
- manning should lower his ints but still dont think he can pick up for a less productive rb postition at this pt in his career
- i like NYG skill players in the passing game
- no LT
- defense should be in the bottom half of the league
- main problem with your d is experience at outside linebacker postion and your not athletic in you secondary

to beat the giants you beat em on the sidelines of the field. whether that be with sprints to the outside or bouncing it off tackle in the run game or with a passing game that attacks the outside portions of the playing field.
 
Brewer- if you think that their offense will be one of the worse in the NFL and their defense will be in the bottom half....how could they possibly win 10 games in that division?
 
that's the problem.. too many people are underestimating Jacobs... the guy is for REAL and I think he IS going to make alot of doubters eat their words this season... Alot of people just look at what Tiki did and think it can't be replaced... they look at his 5.1 yards per carry as opposed to Jacobs' 4.4 last year and think he can't do what tiki does.

Sure tiki ran over 1200 yards for 5 straight years, but keep in mind he had over 300 carries in 4 out of those 5 years and had over 270 carries in that one other year... What do you think Jacobs would do with over 300 carries??

Let's look at how Jacobs and Tiki really performed last year running behind the same offensive line...

For one, we know Jacobs ran a shitload of goal line plays that took away from his average, so let's take away the goal line plays (Inside the redzone) for both tiki and Jacobs since that took away from both of their averages and see what they did everywhere else in the open field...

Outside the redzone (running behind the same O-line), Tiki had 319 carries and averaged 5.2 per carry. Jacobs had 71 carries and also averaged 5.2 per carry. Tiki's longest run of the season was 55 yards.. in fact, tiki lead the entire league in runs over 10 yards... so if you take away those long runs over 10 yards, his average would probably go down drastically.... Jacobs longest run was only 16 yards.. that means he gets more consistent yardage with each carry... you have to remember Jacobs was mainly used for the goaline purposes... almost 30% of his carries were inside the redzone. Tiki only had 9% of his carries inside the red zone. It's alot easier to get more done in the open field than in the goaline where everything is cramped up and everyone is keying on you.. yet Jacobs still averaged 4.4 per carry including those carries... that says alot.. specially when you consider they were both running behind the same line... I think as long as the Giants use Jacobs correctly, and they find a way to make that left side of the O-Line work, then it could be a big season for Jacobs... You gotta remember, Coughlin likes to run the ball plenty. The three years he's been there are the only three seasons that tiki had over 320 carries and over 1500 yards. Never did he reach those numbers before Coughlin and yet with Coughlin, he did it every season. Watch out for Jacobs if he's used as the workhorse.

YesSir... it seems you are high on Rivers, which is okay to be because he is good, but keep in mind he does have arguably the best Offensive line, the best fullback, the best tight end, and the best running back in the league. What more could you ask for as a quarterback?? Well, I guess you could also ask for a top defense, but he got that too... alot more gifts than Manning received.. that's for sure. I know you say you don't care about the receivers and all that crap, but the bottom line is... with the team he has around him, you'd have to be really shitty to NOT succeed. If Manning could lead the team he has around him to an 11-5 season two years ago, and to the playoffs two out of three years, then I don't see what would be so hard seeing him lead a Ladainian led team with their tight end, fullback, O-line, and defense to a 14-2 season. Seriously, that team could make Patrick Ramsey look shine like a star. I'd like to see what Rivers would do in say.. oh I don't know.. Oakland.. hehe.
 
Yes I agree completely Blitz....What I am saying is that he should be in that situation but he had to be dick, (instead of being greatful of having a chance to play) and demand not to play in SD...It is kind of ironic....I think he will be a good QB but it is great to watch him crumble IMO...If he played for the Bears I am sure I would feal differently.
 
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I don't do preseason and that won't change tonight, but looking at this matchup, I would think that the Giants should cover this considering they have lots of mistakes to fix on defense from last weeks' performance. Kiwi is still adjusting in his new position and they need to work on stuffing the run. The secondary is still all competing so they need to play well, plus I think Ross plays tonight. The Ravens didn't see many mistakes against the Eagles, so they probably take things in stride thinking they can just keep doing what they're doing... that will work with their defense since it is solid as hell no matter what and the G-Men did fairly well on offense so they could be up for trouble this week. Either way, both defenses should play rough and both offenses should struggle in my opinion. Considering both teams are coming off games where they both scored over 20 pts, I would think the defenses shine in this one and I would lean on the UNDER 33.5... but that's just me. Not playing anything though.. hehe.
 
Thanks for the perspective Blitz

something to keep in mind...
A good 3 yards and a cloud of dust RB is more valued than a boom/bust back.

If your RB gets 1 yard on 19 carries, and then a blazing 81 yard touchdown run, he isn't as valued as a RB who got 5 yards a pop on 20 carries. I know that is an extreme example, but consistant yardage moves the chains.

I don't expect the Giants to match their rushing yards of last year, but I do believe Eli Manning will throw for MORE than the 3200 yards he threw for last year. It wouldn't shock me at all to see him pick up 400+ yards passing, to cope for the loss of Tiki.


I don't understand these 6-10 predictions for the Giants, we would have to see a complete meltdown for that to happen.

The Giants looked real good and real bad last year. They looked real good at the start of last year when the team was healthy, and they lost games last year with that mountain of injuries. I don't see how that was Eli's fault, especially the playoff game, the dallas loss, Jacksonville loss.

How come everybody blames eli for losing those games, but when Tiki Barber " who was supposedly the whole team" rushes for 20 yards against jacksonville nobody was busting his balls.

Now that Barber leaves, " he was the whole team", " the giants are screwed".

I see Matt Leinart as not a perfect comparasion, but a similar prospect as Eli Manning. Then I see people call Eli words like "average", and talk about how he will never be good, but then people talk about Arizona as being some super sleeper team because of the improved play by Leinart.

Just pretend for a second Matty and Eli were the same person ( even though they aren't). People love Matt Leinart so much, but they hate Eli so much.

Blitz pointed out the stacked roster Rivers played for too. Phillip Rivers is in the same spot that Ben Hamberger was in a couple years ago when he was "managing" that great roster. Eli hasn't had that luxary thus far of having a good line, a super bowl defense etc.

Eli doesn't have half of his throws as screen passes etc. He makes his reads, drops back, and has to play quarterback. That takes time. Just look at Drew Brees. At least Eli has showed a lot of Promise.

I haven't thumbed through the schedule yet, but I know the schedule is easier this year. That means the Giants could theoretically be the same team, but improve in the W/L column.

Right now though, I see Philly running away with the division, and the Giants in that playoff hunt for the wild card. I do see them as the 2nd best team in the division.
 
C-Gold said:
Thanks for the perspective Blitz

something to keep in mind...
A good 3 yards and a cloud of dust RB is more valued than a boom/bust back.

If your RB gets 1 yard on 19 carries, and then a blazing 81 yard touchdown run, he isn't as valued as a RB who got 5 yards a pop on 20 carries. I know that is an extreme example, but consistant yardage moves the chains.

I don't expect the Giants to match their rushing yards of last year, but I do believe Eli Manning will throw for MORE than the 3200 yards he threw for last year. It wouldn't shock me at all to see him pick up 400+ yards passing, to cope for the loss of Tiki.


I don't understand these 6-10 predictions for the Giants, we would have to see a complete meltdown for that to happen.

The Giants looked real good and real bad last year. They looked real good at the start of last year when the team was healthy, and they lost games last year with that mountain of injuries. I don't see how that was Eli's fault, especially the playoff game, the dallas loss, Jacksonville loss.

How come everybody blames eli for losing those games, but when Tiki Barber " who was supposedly the whole team" rushes for 20 yards against jacksonville nobody was busting his balls.

Now that Barber leaves, " he was the whole team", " the giants are screwed".

I see Matt Leinart as not a perfect comparasion, but a similar prospect as Eli Manning. Then I see people call Eli words like "average", and talk about how he will never be good, but then people talk about Arizona as being some super sleeper team because of the improved play by Leinart.

Just pretend for a second Matty and Eli were the same person ( even though they aren't). People love Matt Leinart so much, but they hate Eli so much.

Blitz pointed out the stacked roster Rivers played for too. Phillip Rivers is in the same spot that Ben Hamberger was in a couple years ago when he was "managing" that great roster. Eli hasn't had that luxary thus far of having a good line, a super bowl defense etc.

Eli doesn't have half of his throws as screen passes etc. He makes his reads, drops back, and has to play quarterback. That takes time. Just look at Drew Brees. At least Eli has showed a lot of Promise.

I haven't thumbed through the schedule yet, but I know the schedule is easier this year. That means the Giants could theoretically be the same team, but improve in the W/L column.

Right now though, I see Philly running away with the division, and the Giants in that playoff hunt for the wild card. I do see them as the 2nd best team in the division.
Click to expand...

I agree completely with the RB statement. What I am saying is, do you think Brandon Jacobs could do that every game. And if he can, who is going to be the change of pace back? I also agree that Rivers is on a stacked team....I was just edging at how thats where Eli should be playing...
 
Cloud of dust back...
1st and 10: 3 yard run
2nd and 7: 3 yard run
3rd and 4 = a very manageable down and distance situation that a QB should be able to convert a resonable percentage of time... at least 60% of the time.

Boom/Bust back
1st and 10: 1 yard run
2nd and 9: ( lets say 2 yard run)
3rd and 7 = a more difficult down and distance, that will very likely see a blitz and a more diffucult situation.


The boom/bust back should end games with better LINES/STATS, but does that help you win games as much? Having a back with a 5 ypc average, but a median run of say 2 yards, isn't as good as a back with a 4ypc and a higher median carry.

I wouldn't characterize Barber as a pure boom/bust back, but Jacobs is a cloud of dust back. I saw Barber have some 10+ yard runs that not many people could do, but then again I saw some times he would get 1-2 yards, when Jacobs could have lowered his shoulder and got an extra couple yards.

An "extra couple yards", might not sound like a big deal, but putting Eli in 3rd and 4, is a hell of a lot different than 3rd and 7, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 9 etc.

I think people also misenterpret cloud of dust backs in thinking they can't bust off long runs. I remember Ron Dayne busting a long run as soon as a year or two ago.

If a running back gets past the front 7 and into the open field, they will pick up yards... regardless of a 4.2, a 4.6, or a 4.8 40 time. If you get past the front 7, or the 11 defenders, you will have open grass, and you will pick up yards.

I would rather have a consistant back picking up ( higher than average) yards, than a boom/bust back.

Now it would be foolish to say that Jacobs is better than Tiki, because he is NOT, but I think having that cloud of dust back ( and not as good), will boost Eli's passing yards.

I Really see Eli's passing stats closer to 2 years ago ( 3700 yards), as opposed to last year ( 3200 yards) for you Fantasy football guys out there.

I don't expect Jacobs to rush for 1700 yards, but It wouldn't suprise me at all to see 1200+ yards, if he's healthy, maybe closer to 13-1400.

Ray Lewis says he is the hardest back to tackle in the NFL. I like that.
 
YesSir said:
What I am saying is, do you think Brandon Jacobs could do that every game. And if he can, who is going to be the change of pace back?
Click to expand...

what's the big deal with the change of pace back??... Are you saying that the change of pace back is the one that is going to determine whether this team succeeds??

Who's the change of pace back for Tomlinson??.. Stephen Jackson??... Frank Gore??... Shaun Alexander??... Edgerrin James??...

don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to compare any players... just saying what makes any of their change of pace backs so special??... what makes Michael Turner, Brian Leonard, Michael Robinson, Maurice Morris, or Marcel Shipp any better than Reuben Droughns??

If your question about Jacobs was in regards to him being a consistant runner and being able to get those extra yards when needed.. then YES... I DO think he can do that every game... why not??...

Now, that doesn't mean he will have a huge game every game, because every back (Even LT, LJ, tiki, and everyone else) has bad games at times for different reasons, but he IS just as capable as tiki was.
 
C-Gold said:
I think people also misenterpret cloud of dust backs in thinking they can't bust off long runs. I remember Ron Dayne busting a long run as soon as a year or two ago.

If a running back gets past the front 7 and into the open field, they will pick up yards... regardless of a 4.2, a 4.6, or a 4.8 40 time. If you get past the front 7, or the 11 defenders, you will have open grass, and you will pick up yards.

I would rather have a consistant back picking up ( higher than average) yards, than a boom/bust back.

Now it would be foolish to say that Jacobs is better than Tiki, because he is NOT, but I think having that cloud of dust back ( and not as good), will boost Eli's passing yards.

I Really see Eli's passing stats closer to 2 years ago ( 3700 yards), as opposed to last year ( 3200 yards) for you Fantasy football guys out there.

I don't expect Jacobs to rush for 1700 yards, but It wouldn't suprise me at all to see 1200+ yards, if he's healthy, maybe closer to 13-1400.
Click to expand...


very well said....

here's the thing... I agree with Jacobs being that cloud of dust back, but that has other advantages that can win games without having or needing the stats to go up so high...

Will Eli throw for alot more yards?.. probably... can Jacobs have over 1200 yards?.. probably... but the thing is.. as long as he can keep doing what he's doing (gaining consistent yardage) even without breaking any long runs, that would mean the Giants offense will keep moving the chains, and will take more time off the clock (better time of possession) since that long 80 yard run doesn't end the possession and give the ball away. That would not be great for stats, but who cares.. it can help win games.

There was one play I saw Jacobs completely stop and feel undecided where to go that he ended being tripped up by one defender against Baltimore this past weekend... then a couple of plays later, he gets 6 or 7 yards with about 6 Ravens on his back.. hehe.
 
by the way... when I compared Jacobs yards per carry to tikis' (excluding the red zone carries), they both had a 5.2 yards per carry average... but one thing people don't realize is that even outside of the red zone, Jacobs got the ball plenty of times on 4th and 1 or 3rd and short situations with the defenses keying on preventing the short run for the first down... tiki usually got the ball with 7 or more yards to go or on shotgun draw plays when the defenses were playing zone or prevent. To be running plays in goaline type situations for more than 30% of your carries and to still average what he did says alot about him.
 
BlitzBandit said:
as long as he can keep doing what he's doing (gaining consistent yardage) even without breaking any long runs, that would mean the Giants offense will keep moving the chains, and will take more time off the clock (better time of possession) since that long 80 yard run doesn't end the possession and give the ball away. That would not be great for stats, but who cares.. it can help win games.
Click to expand...


that would actually be a good philosophy for them... if they can find a way to prolong those drives and make them slow but sure... that sure would be good to get rest for their defense so they can come in fresh... they definitely need all the help they can get on that side of the ball.
 
CT actually.. but they are right next to each other.. NYC is 45 min from me.. and on the flip Bostons 1.5 hrs


these injuries are starting to build up again, and were trying to patch and mend.

We signed J.R. Reed today from Atlanta to add depth at safety, and at the kick return game (i like ward, but would also liek to see a flashy guy like reed or moss to compliment him)

I would like to see us make a move at Lemar Marshall or Trotter seeing as Trotter knows the NFC East so well.


Also a lot of concerns at CB- Madison is out for probably at least 3 weeks with his nagging hammy.. and RW Mcquarters and Corey Webster arent ideal starters for me.. it's near impossible to throw Ross in there and expect him to contribute as a rook.. i think we need to do something about the secondary right away.
 
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BlitzBandit said:
what's the big deal with the change of pace back??... Are you saying that the change of pace back is the one that is going to determine whether this team succeeds??

Who's the change of pace back for Tomlinson??.. Stephen Jackson??... Frank Gore??... Shaun Alexander??... Edgerrin James??...

don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to compare any players... just saying what makes any of their change of pace backs so special??... what makes Michael Turner, Brian Leonard, Michael Robinson, Maurice Morris, or Marcel Shipp any better than Reuben Droughns??

If your question about Jacobs was in regards to him being a consistant runner and being able to get those extra yards when needed.. then YES... I DO think he can do that every game... why not??...

Now, that doesn't mean he will have a huge game every game, because every back (Even LT, LJ, tiki, and everyone else) has bad games at times for different reasons, but he IS just as capable as tiki was.
Click to expand...


Those guys are the elite runners in the league. All I am saying is that there is ? whether he can stay healthy and carry the ball 20 times a game (with his style of running). Also, teams will game plan for him more. With a mediocre OL and a average QB, there is no threat. Teams do not have to worry about Tiki anymore, they can focus fully on him...

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>1</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Sep 9</TD><TD>at Dallas LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>NBC</TD><TD>8:15 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>2</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Sep 16</TD><TD>Green Bay WIN</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>1:00 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>3</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Sep 23</TD><TD>at Washington ?</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>4:15 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>4</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Sep 30</TD><TD>Philadelphia LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>NBC</TD><TD>8:15 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>5</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Oct 7</TD><TD>NY Jets ?</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>CBS</TD><TD>1:00 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>6</TD><TD noWrap>Mon, Oct 15</TD><TD>at Atlanta LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>ESPN</TD><TD>8:30 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>7</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Oct 21</TD><TD>San Francisco ?</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>1:00 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>8</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Oct 28</TD><TD>at Miami ?</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>1:00 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>9</TD><TD colSpan=8>BYE WEEK</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>10</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Nov 11</TD><TD>Dallas LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>4:15 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>11</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Nov 18</TD><TD>at Detroit WIN</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>4:15 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>12</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Nov 25</TD><TD>Minnesota WIN</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>1:00 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>13</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Dec 2</TD><TD>at Chicago LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>4:15 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>14</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Dec 9</TD><TD>at Philadelphia LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>1:00 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>15</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Dec 16</TD><TD>Washington WIN</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>NBC</TD><TD>8:15 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>16</TD><TD noWrap>Sun, Dec 23</TD><TD>at Buffalo LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>FOX</TD><TD>1:00 PM</TD></TR><!--gameStatus=1--><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>17</TD><TD noWrap>Sat, Dec 29</TD><TD>New England LOSS</TD><TD>Tickets</TD><TD noWrap>NL<!-- 3rd spread --></TD><TD>NFL</TD><TD>8:15 PM</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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This is just my opinion but I think I was pretty fair here....if they win every question mark, they finish 8-8 but I do not think they will​
 
Blitz- The thing about pussyfooting around, is, Ron Dayne was supposed to be the "thunder" when Tiki was " lighting". Dayne was a bigger back ( usually associated as being a power back), but he wasn't a power back.

Very Early on ( last year), I saw Jacobs as being hesitant with picking a hole and going with it. That really made me sour on him...

However, he really wasn't as prepaired his first year and that was a main reason why he didn't get to play as much. He would have been too much a liability in pass blocking situations and possibly running the ball. Tiki carrying the full load was a more solid bet.

Last year Jacobs " got it". He wasn't tentative in picking holes, and he was one of the most aggressive players in the league last year. You would see him getting in pushing and shoving matches on special teams, you saw him slam David Akers to the ground, you saw him "meat out" after celebrating a long run. This guy is big, bad and just mean.

He's a more athletic Christian Okoye, Natrome Means, Jerome Bettis etc. He's about 265, and much more lean than these guys ( but also tall). I hope he doesn't turn into the latter Eddie George, but if he were the earlier Eddie that would be good.

I would have got more into the " less stats, but better offense", but Blitz did a good job of pointing all that out. Better time of possession, better defense, better situations for Eli etc.

Yessir- The Giants have an above average offensive line ( for the offense they run), they have an above average quarterback and Jacobs is better than you think.

In fact, most people in the media call Jacobs himself the question mark ( because he has to replace tiki), but your saying that the rest of the offense is weak enough that teams will FOCUS on Jacobs... I just don't see it.

You really think the Giants suck.
- They are 4 point underdogs in Dallas, but you already gave them an "L". The Moneyline would probably be somewhere around -200, but you already automatically gave them a loss. Vegas has given them a probability of 33%.

- At Washington is a question mark. Now if they are getting 4 points in Dallas, what will the line be in Washington? Would Vegas give the Giants 3, or will it be more like a pick em?

- At home against Philly you pegged as a loss. Their Playoff game in Philly last year ( when the Giants were soooo bad) came down to the last possession, and Eli did throw for 370 Yards @ Philly last year to win in dramatic fashion, but you just pegged that game as an automatic Loss.

- The Jets at Home/Road is a ?

- San Fran at Home is a ? The Giants should be 3 point favorites at least.

- @ Miami? Cleo Lemon could be starting that game ( hopefully)

- Dallas at home is already a Loss? The Giants beat them in Dallas LY

- @ Philly is already a Loss. Eli won there last year.

- Barfalo is a loss? JP Losman?

- I wouldn't even count New England neccesarily as a loss. Getting the Patriots in week 17 is the best possible time to get them. At that point in time, the team could be 13-2, with all their recent additons, and Matt Cassell could be throwing passes to Kelly Washington at this point.
 
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YesSir said:
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Those guys are the elite runners in the league. All I am saying is that there is ? whether he can stay healthy and carry the ball 20 times a game (with his style of running). Also, teams will game plan for him more. With a mediocre OL and a average QB, there is no threat. Teams do not have to worry about Tiki anymore, they can focus fully on him...​


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This is just my opinion but I think I was pretty fair here....if they win every question mark, they finish 8-8 but I do not think they will​
Click to expand...


I could've sworn tiki WAS an elite runner in the league last year.. that IS who Jacobs is replacing.. right?? I'm not sure what kind of example you wanted... Portis??... Rudi Johnson??... Ronnie Brown??... it's all the same thing... the change of pace guy doesn't matter for them either.. they are still going to produce their expected stats and their team is still going to be as successful (or unsuccessful) as it's going to be with or without their change of pace back. You can fire the change of pace back and get someone else to relieve them and they are still going to do what they do when they are on the field. I understand his running style, but it's like you are giving him a 60% chance of getting injured. It just seems like you are capping this teams success/failures based on him being injured... odds are, he probably won't get injured... at least not enough to miss much. If and when he's injured, then you can say how horrible the giants will be... but I want to know how you think they'll do with him as a full-timer and not injured... you still think a 5-11 season??... because that sounds a bit weird.


you keep saying average O-Line and average quarterback, but it's the same line and quarterback tiki had last season... (specially after Luke Petitgout went down last year)... he would still produce... no reason why Jacob can't... right??

funny how you have Dallas and Philly sweeping them.. that's rivalry and those are usually splits.. THAT would be more fair... the funny thing is.. even if they win those four question marks you have there, they still win their 8 games you said they won't win...

but you are giving them no credit at all just because tiki left... as if he was the one winning all those games when the entire defense was healthy... and like he was the one losing them when they were not healthy.
 
YesSir, I've known you for some time and you have good comments to make in football forums but I will appreciate it if you leave the moderating to us. We dont allow bashing in threads and that applies to you too. You could have expressed your point accross without the sarcastic remarks, get my drift? Lets tone it down. We dont need this in here.

BTW, good luck this season :shake:
 
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BlitzBandit said:
I could've sworn tiki WAS an elite runner in the league last year.. that IS who Jacobs is replacing.. right?? I'm not sure what kind of example you wanted... Portis??... Rudi Johnson??... Ronnie Brown??... it's all the same thing... the change of pace guy doesn't matter for them either.. they are still going to produce their expected stats and their team is still going to be as successful (or unsuccessful) as it's going to be with or without their change of pace back. You can fire the change of pace back and get someone else to relieve them and they are still going to do what they do when they are on the field. I understand his running style, but it's like you are giving him a 60% chance of getting injured. It just seems like you are capping this teams success/failures based on him being injured... odds are, he probably won't get injured... at least not enough to miss much. If and when he's injured, then you can say how horrible the giants will be... but I want to know how you think they'll do with him as a full-timer and not injured... you still think a 5-11 season??... because that sounds a bit weird.


you keep saying average O-Line and average quarterback, but it's the same line and quarterback tiki had last season... (specially after Luke Petitgout went down last year)... he would still produce... no reason why Jacob can't... right??

funny how you have Dallas and Philly sweeping them.. that's rivalry and those are usually splits.. THAT would be more fair... the funny thing is.. even if they win those four question marks you have there, they still win their 8 games you said they won't win...

but you are giving them no credit at all just because tiki left... as if he was the one winning all those games when the entire defense was healthy... and like he was the one losing them when they were not healthy.
Click to expand...

OK I am going to say one last thing because this is frustrating the hell outta me- this is just going in circles....then I will let you get the final word.... This is just my opinion...
my thoughts

Eli Manning- decent QB but nothing spectacular...does not have the mental ability to win in pressure situations or in NYC for that matter. Is he dumb? No, I have heard he is a very intelligent person...so no I am not calling him dumb

Tiki Barber- YES he was an elite back. He was a top 5 back in the league

Brandon Jacobs- He was a "change of pace" back for Tiki. He had the physical ability to spell Tiki- ON THE GL AND IN THIRD IN SHORTS

Offenive Line- Yes they are average... Am I undervaluing here? Maybe but that is just how I feel at this point...arent there some question on the line also?

As far as the question marks- yes I stated that if they win all 4 games they would finish 8-8. If I knew a team would be 4-8 going into the last 4 weeks of the season (and thought each of the games was a toss up) I would take the UNDER 8 all day. Now, do I know that they will go 4-8 in those games? I did that in like 15 minutes but that is just how I feel. Yes, I understand that Philly and Dallas are rivalry games. The Browns rivals are Baltimore and Pittsburgh and they usually go 0-4 against them. I understand that NYG usually splits- that is usually when both teams have equal talent....

you keep saying average O-Line and average quarterback, but it's the same line and quarterback tiki had last season... (specially after Luke Petitgout went down last year)... he would still produce... no reason why Jacob can't... right??

Brandon Jacobs is nowhere near as good as Tiki Barber

Brandon Jacobs might make it threw the whole season healthy, I am not sure. What I am saying is that no one really knows how good he will be as the feature back. He only has 134 career rushes...with those rushes he is averaging 3.9 ypc...I would not feel comfortable with an unproven player being my feature back

All I am saying is that the team went 8-8(finishing 2-6) last year and I think they will take a step back. Coughlin will be gone and the players will give up after the first bad beat IMO...

It is your team and you probably no more about them than I do so I will let you have the last word....:cheers:
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YesSir said:
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I will let you have the last word....:cheers:​

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okay.. thanks.. hehe...


seriously bud... no need to get frustrated... I'm just discussing stuff...

we're not running in circles... I'm telling you why I think Jacobs won't hurt the team and can help it contend for the playoffs and you tell me he's not as good as tiki just because it's your opinion and that's all there is to it regardless what anybody says or what the stats show.. so if that's the case, then there's no sense in continuing to post because your mind is already set. I mean.. theres' no point in stating things like... "Brandon Jacobs is nowhere near as good as Tiki Barber" if you are going to back it up with just a "that's just how I feel, it's my opinion"...

the purpose of these forums is to discuss and get some thoughts out... not to get frustrated everytime someone disagrees with you...


"arent there some questions on the line also?"

I don't know.. you tell me.. hehe.


anyway... I guess I'll just let your thoughts be since you are pretty much set...


by the way... sorry for the long spacing on your quote.... I couldn't get it without the space... I think it's when you copied and pasted from works or whatever program you used...

and thanks for the last word (even though I don't think you are going to let it be).. hehe.
 
I've seen Eli win in plenty of pressure situations. The comeback against Denver 2 years ago was unbelievable, the 3 touchdown comeback @ pHilly last year was unbelievable etc.

Brandon Jacobs might average 3.9 per carry, but that would also be skewed by all those shoart yardage and goailine carries he had. Blitz tried to take those away and it looked like Jacobs had almost identical YPC as Tiki last year. Now granted, that is a smaller sample size etc., but by watching every single carry from each back, I can honestly say that Jacobs looked impressive. If your measuring Tiki on the (easy carrys), and Jacobs on the regular and all the harder goaline carries, then comparing YPC isn't a very fair exercise. I felt that a lot of the wholes Tiki ran through were a function of the offense they ran, but when holes weren't there what could a small guy like him do? Jacobs can just pound away.

I know you question whether or not Jacobs can make it through an entire year, but people always said the same stuff about smaller guys like Tiki or Warrick Dunn and they held up much better than anybody could have ever hoped for.

Instead of trying to compare him to Tiki, just think of him as his own guy. He was a freaking beast. I don't even know what other word to use. If he gets his shoulders square, and starts running North/South, it is a very pretty thing. You can certainly say that he is the Hammer, and the defender is the nail.
 
exactly... bringing up Jacobs low 2.4 average per carry from two years ago is completely unfair... almost comical....

that year he only had 38 carries... 21 of them were inside the redzone in goaline situations... so he averaged 1.4 per carry and had 7 tds in those 21 carries... he averaged over 4 yards per carry in the other 17 carries where he also had 3rd and short or 4th and short with defenses clogging up the run.
 
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