St Louis Cardinals Season Thread

Hope Carlos can regain his form as a front end starter. Mikolas on the shelf and I think they being more optimistic than realistic. They had already given him one these plasma injections and had him rest all offseason and soon as he starts throwing the problem comes back? Not sure what makes them think doing it again and resting few more weeks/month is gonna change anything? Sounds to me like he headed for surgery eventually but we see.

I don’t think that kills the staff or anything even if he out for the year, they still have pretty good depth but that gets thinner if Carlos can’t start, if he can regain old form actually be a upgrade over Mikolas but still losing a good innings eater.

I saw the Tampa kid libetore they traded for this offseason today. He didn’t have a good performance but I can see why they like him, he has nasty curve and really nice pop on his heater (hitting 96-97), plus he a lefty which they been lacking forever! 1st curve he threw to a lefty had guy bail like he was gonna get hit and broke in for a strike, pretty filthy. Think he only 20 so doubt we see him this year but he unquestionably has the stuff of a front of rotation stud. crazy Rays have so much good pitching they could afford to part with him. I know they love Jose Martinez tho and arozarena might end up being really good. Hopefully ends up being good trade for both teams.

We gonna have to get a lot more offense out all those young outfielders or the offense gonna be worse than last year when it wasn’t very good. Way more worried about that than our pitching at this point.
 
was looking at the bullpen last night and think there's a lot of decent arms but i worry nobody besides Gallegos (youth) and Helsey (big arm but unproven) is that great. Miller seems like he's on the downside of his career and who knows what we'll get from Brebbia, then can Webb go three hitters?
 
GWarner27 said:
was looking at the bullpen last night and think there's a lot of decent arms but i worry nobody besides Gallegos (youth) and Helsey (big arm but unproven) is that great. Miller seems like he's on the downside of his career and who knows what we'll get from Brebbia, then can Webb go three hitters?
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It’s crazy to me how bad they are evaluating FA pen arms when they so good at drafting and developing pitching. The amount of money they have shelled out the last 2-3 years on completely worthless pen bums is insane. They def need miller to be better, wanna say he was marginally better second half and playoffs but still nowhere near what they paid for and his velo on fb and slider has dropped significantly, he really couldn’t even get outs w his fastball last year but his slider still remains pretty filthy with a more than respectable strike out rate (nowhere near his prime tho). We still paying Cecil a crazy amount I think! Seems like he gonna get every chance this spring, looked awful yesterday.

Overall I’m not overly concerned with the pen. They have pretty good stable of arms still. If Cabrera doesn’t become a starter I think you will see him become their best lefty out of pen, he has nasty stuff, certainly capable of handling 3 batters and righties, obviously control is his main issue Which looked pretty good yesterday in 2 innings of work. So far this spring 3 innings with 5k’s and no walks so that really promising!

Gant still solid even tho his second half last year wasnt good. I like Helsley a lot. We will see how it goes with the always injured Reyes but so far he healthy and sounds like if that continues more likely he in the pen then starter. That would be huge as he still has more talent than anyone in that pen.
 
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Pissed they not on tv today. Wtf that about? I thought fox sports Midwest showed all of them? Wanted to watch flaherty!
 
Junior Fernandez looks like he could potentially break into our pen and be a asset: his k rate really spiked last year, mid 90s heat with plus off speed. His control needs work but nothing damning.
 
2daBank said:
Junior Fernandez looks like he could potentially break into our pen and be a asset: his k rate really spiked last year, mid 90s heat with plus off speed. His control needs work but nothing damning.
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Another good showing from him today. So now 2 innings with no hits or walks and 3k’s. Junior in Cecil way way way out. Another 10 mil (give or take) they gonna have to eat on a garbage pen free agent contract.
 
wonder how much a indicator it is that lane Thomas doesn’t seem to be getting any starts?? What I feared is coming to fruition, playing time for this club is gonna continue to be based on contracts opposed to merit. So sick of Fowler and we still on hook for another year after this one!! Yuck. Suppose In center it more a case of them for some reason loving Bader even tho he awful at the plate!!

Cards are not good at evaluating their outfield talent. That been evident since back when they refused to give Pham a legit chance then traded him away for a bag of balls (pretty sure he had a better ops for rays last year than any our outfielders!). Now this year we shipped Arozarena out after giving him no chance last year burying him on the bench after he was called up. Wanna bet he shines for rays this year? At least we got what looks to be a excellent pitching prospect in return which we needed after giving up alcontera for Ozuna punk ass couple years ago (i think alcontera primed for a break out season for marlins while we don’t even have Ozuna anymore).

I’d be so excited for this team if we played a outfield of Carlson/Thomas/O’Neal. Unfortunately we be lucky to see one of those 3 full time. As mentioned it a unfortunate forgone conclusion Fowler be out there wasting a spot in right pretty much every day. Bader prob another black hole in the lineup while playing excellent center field most every day. Then it would be so Cardinals to keep the youngsters on bench for a platoon chance combined with this redic infatuation they have with this scrub Dean who wasnt protected by marlins! (How good can a guy be if he couldnt break thru and start for the fish?).

For being a allegedly smart organization I seriously don’t understand wtf they doing at times!! they refused to trade most these young guys while continually talking them up yet are scared to ever expose them to full time big league pitching!!! Makes no sense. Then they end up trading them for pennies on the dollar years later ala Carson Kelly who thrived when zona gave him a chance to play every day last year.
 
Carlos went 3 scoreless/hit less innings today vs Nats, he did walk 3 and struck out 4. So far so good for him rejoining the starting rotation which we really need with mikolas down.

I havnt gotten a chance to see the Korean lefty yet but looking forward to it. He posted really nice numbers the last 3 years in a league that known for offense.
 
Carlson has reached base safely in 8 straight abs. Wonder if there anything he can do that force cards to pull heads out of asses and have him make the club out of ST?
 
Gomber looked fantastic today. Even with mikolas injury it might be tough to trim this rotation down to 5! Of course depth at starting pitching a must and usually works itself out.

dejung looks great so far. Making me think I might just be right about his career arc and him potentially having a monster year. They really need him to take another step cause Im still incredibly worried about the production we gonna get from the outfield. Bader tries to bunt for a hit every game. Feel like he should be working on things he can’t do (like hit a baseball when swinging at it) but guess he doesn’t wanna show all his holes and risk losing his job as he should! Guess he doesn’t know cardinals decide they like someone and play them regardless how bad they suck (ala fowler). 2 black holes in the lineup where could be O’Neal and Thomas who both have way more potential imo.
 
2daBank said:
Gomber looked fantastic today. Even with mikolas injury it might be tough to trim this rotation down to 5! Of course depth at starting pitching a must and usually works itself out.

dejung looks great so far. Making me think I might just be right about his career arc and him potentially having a monster year. They really need him to take another step cause Im still incredibly worried about the production we gonna get from the outfield. Bader tries to bunt for a hit every game. Feel like he should be working on things he can’t do (like hit a baseball when swinging at it) but guess he doesn’t wanna show all his holes and risk losing his job as he should! Guess he doesn’t know cardinals decide they like someone and play them regardless how bad they suck (ala fowler). 2 black holes in the lineup where could be O’Neal and Thomas who both have way more potential imo.
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Pun? Lol
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Pun? Lol
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lol. No but pretty funny.

so if Fowler ends spring with this stellar .086 average is he still penciled in as our everyday right fielder? Probably. Lol. Such bs. Let the young guys with potential play!!! I mean wtf it matter if you eating 18 mil if the kid you replace him with making minimum?
 
VirginiaCavs said:
I see Carp been working a lot on his swing. Paid off there with a nice homer
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Were you playing the show or something? I don’t think carp even had a ab today, still complaining bout his back. Dejung, O’Neal, and Ortega (whoever he is) hit cards 3 home runs which accounted for all 4 runs. Carp hasn’t played since the 24th and no home runs.
 
Big daddy naught said:
Gonna be tough for them. Cubs and brewers will still be good
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division is incredibly balanced with what id consider bunch of slightly above average teams. Honestly I’m more scared of cincy than milw and prob scrubbies. Reds did a lot to help the offense and that pitching staff is potentially filthy with excellent starting rotation, couple solid guys for 7-8th, and a dominate closer.

Wouldn’t shock me if anyone other than pirates won the central. Right now I’d put it reds, cards, cubs, milw.

I have high hopes for cards rotation but am incredibly worried about the outfield. Absolutely drives me crazy it appears bader and Fowler pencilled in center and right regardless. So the 3 guys I think could all potentially be very good (Carlson, O’Neal, Thomas) are all stuck battling for left field which is fucking nuts imo. I’d be way higher on this team if they would give those guys a fair shake instead of playing payroll politics with Fowler in right, no clue what their infatuation with bader is? He a great defensive center fielder but he horrible at the plate imo. Lane Thomas has done nothing but produce in his limited opportunities in the bigs and he a perfectly capable center fielder. Just more evidence to me that cards are terrible at evaluating their outfield talent. So best guess is they gonna send Carlson to the minors despite raking this spring, while they platoon Thomas and O’Neal in left to start the year. So stupid imo.
 
I find myself rooting for Fowler to get hurt every time he steps to the plate. Unfortunately not easy to do when he can’t make contact with a ball. Maybe we get lucky and he fall down the stairs in dugout or something. Sickening how much better we be if he went down, sucks that only way to get a better player in his spot.
 
Hudson looked great today, followed by Reyes whose stuff also looked really good but he had some control issues in his second inning of work. Fowler once again went 0fer bringing his average down to .056, lol. These jerkoffs really gonna plug him into the starting lineup come opening day no matter what? He so garbage!!!

Andrew Miller had a bullpen session yesterday and apparently couldn’t feel the baseball so he scheduled for numerous test, another 12.5 mil down the drain on a useless pen free agent! Ideally Reyes will continue being healthy and give us a much better pen arm anyways!!

on another note the Astros gonna be in for a long season. During the game today fans behind the plate were yelling out what pitch they thought was coming during every at bat!! lol
 
Flaherty wasn’t sharp today but obviously not a big deal, he the least of our concerns. Bader continues looking like a bum at the plate, as did the entire offense. Unfortunately I fear we will see many days where this is the case. On the bright side goldy and dejung had the day off and they both gonna be key to anchoring the middle of the lineup if we gonna have any chance to even reach the postseason.
 
Carlos went 5 clean innings tonight only allowing 3 hits, no walks, just a couple strike outs. Most important part being his ability to go 5 innings with seemingly no injury concerns. Doing so against mostly nats regulars. On track to be back in the starting rotation, ideally back to the Martinez of old with top of the rotation stuff! If that happens we will have as good a 1-2 punch as just about any rotation with flaherty and Carlos!!
 
I might have huge concerns bout the offense but our pitching staff is looking strong as ever. Hudson looks fantastic yet again today. His slider has really nice depth and getting all kinds of swings and misses. Just as importantly he is really all in the strike zone throwing very few balls which huge cause he walked way too many last year.
 
2daBank said:
I might have huge concerns bout the offense but our pitching staff is looking strong as ever. Hudson looks fantastic yet again today. His slider has really nice depth and getting all kinds of swings and misses. Just as importantly he is really all in the strike zone throwing very few balls which huge cause he walked way too many last year.
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of course after I say this he goes and walks couple guys. Lol. Stepped out for a bit so didn’t get to see If he lost all command or what?

The good news he only 25 and even with his way too many walks last year he still put together a very solid season. Nowhere to go but up for this kid, he gonna be about as good a 3rd-4th starter as there is in baseball this year imo.

Run prevention should once again be what carries us to the nl central title. Remains to be seen if winning the off season will propel reds to compete or not? They without a doubt the only team that scares me in the central.

Majority the local radio guys still seem convinced they are gonna acquire Arenado at some point. Something I’m not so sure of and as I’ve mentioned plenty something I’m in minority in saying I don’t really like that idea at all. Even if rox end up lowering their asking price a great deal I still don’t like it. Don’t think I want them to take on that huge contract that if he doesn’t opt out will have us paying more huge dollars to a guy declining in his mid 30s in few years!! No thanks!!

I thought cards fans were smart but apparently not when it comes to spending cards money! Am I the only one who skeptical of this guys numbers away from coors?? Everyone hits in that park! Is a .800ish ops and gold glove defense really worth 255 mil for 8 years for a 28 year old? Only way I would like it is if we got him for second tear prospects and they took either Fowler or carp in the deal, and then hope he opts out!! Lol. Maybe I’ve just grown super tired of all the pretend gm’s and all their fantasy trade scenarios that happen around here all off season then continue till the trade deadline!!
 
Another 0-2 2ks for Fowler. Doing everything in his power to prove Shildt is flat out lying when he says there a competition In the outfield. If there was any truth to that garbage statement no chance fowler be starting.
 
Kim going for cards today then he gonna be followed by Reyes, they facing what looks like I’d assume is gonna be twinks opening day lineup (for most part) so really good test against what I think prob the best lineup in baseball! We not rolling out many starters in lineup today, carpenter leading off and prob only every day starter playing. So gonna roll with the 1st 5 under 5 anticipating Kim and Reyes show well and our offense doesn’t do much. Small play on cards Ff +.5 +117 as well.
 
Well they went ponce del Leon after Kim but wasnt disappointed with that or the result. Kim looks fantastic, nasty slider. Cards might have found another gem from the Asian leagues, this one actually being Asian! Pitching staff gonna be even better than last year I think.
 
I thought our pitching depth was gonna be a very good thing this strange season but that is being put to the test already. Hicks has opted not to play, brebbia having tommy john, Giovanni can’t get out of Mexico (I’m assuming a positive test but I don’t know), Reyes is in St. Louis but hadn’t been on practice field so once again assuming a positive Rona test. Obviously we have long since stopped counting on Reyes but I did think this had potential to be a year he was finally healthy. The other 3 are some of our late inning best out the pen. Tough to lose 3 guys like that and still have a strong pen.
 
I wonder if these things are gonna have them thinking bout Martinez as closer again? Obviously he wants to start and I think we be better off with him starting but we now have far more starter depth than late inning quality options. I still prefer he starts cause a 1-2 of flaherty and Carlos at his best can go toe to toe with anyone in the playoffs.

I would think Heisley would be the next best option to close, he has the stuff and mentality. I think he could end up being just as good but It severely weakens us in the 7th-8th. I keep hearing names like miller and cecil to now be counted on, that very worrisome! Especially cecil! Lol
 
Word on the street is Carpenter been raking in the inter squad games!! They get him back to his old self and assuming goldy puts up more goldy like numbers that could be a game changer for our offense!! It wasn’t all that long ago I watched Carp carry this offense for a 2 month stretch! I think getting to play DH will help him at the plate also cause he always put a ton of pressure on himself to be a better defensive player than he is!

I already been on the Dejung bandwagon, I think his career trajectory isn’t all that different than Trevor story’s, maybe not quite that but he doesn’t hit at coors to pad the numbers! He was raking this spring before the Rona ruined everything, I havnt heard much out of camp but I expect him to have a big “year”. Love the leadoff hitter I think wong developing into and he brings fantastic defense with him daily.

All a sudden the top 4-5 of our lineup might just be way better than some would have expected! We shall see. I do know the pitching can hold its own with anyone and all those guys I was concerned about have gotten to camp and ready to go! Carlos is gonna start which I think is best for us! Shockingly sounds like KK Kim is gonna be our closer!! Obviously he impressing everyone if they confident enough to come out and name him! Word is cards hitters havnt been able to touch him, the little I saw before the Rona he did have a wicked slider!

Everything shaping up cause Cecil got cut! Thank god! I’m much less concerned now!! When I was hearing we were gonna be counting on him and his new sidearm delivery I was scared! How much money did this cock sucker milk out of us? I know he never have to work again and he didn’t work while he was here! BYE!! Now if only Fowler would break his leg or catch the Rona we be in great shape!! Lol
 
I really don’t see anything eye opening to bet here? Flaherty has struggled in camp I’ve heard but I also think he the kind of guy who will ramp it up when he sees another jersey in the box. I do worry no fans is bad for our boy, he so intense and feeds off energy. I think that the worst aspect of no fans, it prob benefits wieners and hurts guys with fire!

Cards have mashed musgrove in limited ab’s. Even Fowler has knocked him around! The only sneaky little tidbit I could find is that most musgrove’s troubles seem to stem from his sinker getting tattooed, now that pirates have a new staff in town there a good possibility that redic approach they once held dear that held back filthy pitchers such as glastnow while enhancing careers of some also rans is now the thing of the past. Musgrove increased his fastball velo 2mph in sept last year and had excellent results albeit against a couple mediocre teams and a mash unit cubs squad. Could it be there some untapped talent here that will show under different tutelage and a increase in velo? Most definitely and he has some underlying numbers that may support it, it could be cards are gonna see a much different pitcher than the one who was their whipping boy previously.

I don’t think cards are slaves to the video room In their hitting approach any longer like they were under the matheny regime, if they were id say they could be in for a rude awakening (enjoy that royals fans! lol).

As is there still potential musgrove can be more effective than he been in the past. What will that mean here I’m not so sure? Lol. Cards still gonna be without some those key relievers who were late to camp (they will be coming back incrementally over the next 10 days is my understanding). With my concern over flaherty without fans and his slow start to camp along with not yet having our full compliment of relievers dare I say cards might be a bit overpriced here? Maybe so, it has come down a tad but -180 still a steep price to pay with some question marks! Cards Ff -.5 at -119 still doesn’t look bad, the under 4.5 has potential if fishery is himself.

I think the best course of action is to take a wait and see approach here and not force a play just for the sake of missing cards baseball and being a degen! At same time I don’t think fading them a great idea either cause while musgrove might have some untapped potential he has yet to show it and he facing a lineup with some guys who are allegedly swinging pretty good bats this camp. Carp the huge x-factor here and by all accounts has looked great. We need that lefty presence around Dejung and goldy! I think carp will ignite the offense so I’d need more plus to ride with the buccos here.
 
Waino was nails at home last year but I wonder if no fans negatively effects him? Seems like the kind of guy who relishes pitching in front of the fired up crowd. Of course some his home success also stems from Busch playing very pitcher friendly, it hot as balls today so the ball gonna carry.

Cards still little short in the pen Until these guys start coming back this next week. I dunno bout this KK as closer thing? He obviously didn’t have his typical stuff yesterday so I dunno if that a product of being uncomfortable in this role or simply not having it? I know he looked great when I saw him this spring (as a starter tho) and they say nobody could touch him in camp but I think he much better suited to be a starter, I prefer my closers to throw smoke not a lefty with a usually nasty slider and only topping out in low 90s!!! Once we get these other 3 pen guys back cards hav3 3-4 options who throw mid to upper 90s gas, I rather see one of them in closer roll (god damn you for opting out Hicks! Screw your “underlying conditions”! Lol.

Trevor Williams the kind of guy cards tee off on, he doesn’t really feature any nasty off speed, he mainly a sinker ball thrower and cards weakness is off speed not sinkers! That has shown up in the past as carp, dejung, wong, and even Fowler have tattooed him in the past.

Cards Ff -.5 makes some sense as does over 9.

My back starting to hurt VC! When you gonna start doing some lifting in this thread! Lol
 
BringInTheLefty said:
I’m very interested in watching Hudson pitch today
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He a tough one to figure out for me at times. He walks way to many ppl for being a ground ball pitcher which sometimes he will work around w DPs but others those balls find holes and if you putting guys on base w free passes that leads to runs. Fangraphs seems to think he has had batted ball luck on his grounders and think his babip is gonna increase, im not always in agreement with them and am skeptical of that conclusion.

The kids sinker is incredibly heavy with very good movement, so much so he often struggles getting it over the plate. I think he tries being to fine with it and should simply aim at middle the plate and let it run! World is he been struggling w command in camp but seemed to have a better feel his off speed last time out. Tough to say with him tho since so many variables to his success or failure, will he walk guys and will the grounders find holes? Such a hard thing to cap!!

Pirates starter Mitch Keller interesting to me. He struggled when called up last year but obviously has very good stuff. Tough game for me with Hudson always a pain to figure out and facing a rookie with good stuff but hasn’t shown capable at this level as of yet. Think it a stay away game for me.
 
other than closer problems as shown in the opener, why the heck is this line so short today

People think Keller is good all of a sudden?
 
GWarner27 said:
other than closer problems as shown in the opener, why the heck is this line so short today

People think Keller is good all of a sudden?
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Well we are still short handed in the pen till the 3 late arrivals to camp get back sometime in next week. Hudson command a issue so if he doesn’t get double plays he might not go deep.

Keller has stuff but I can’t see him getting very deep in this one and cards been teeing off on pirates pen. So I dunno, i suppose a mix the promise of Keller along with potential for Hudson to struggle with command and our shortened pen behind him? You make me play it I def would be on cards at this price.
 
Our offense just could not break thru vs Keller who I didn’t think was all that impressive really, his velo wasn’t great and he was pretty wild but cards just couldn’t make good contact despite only striking out a few times. I really thought we were gonna break thru on him in 6th w top the order but pirates smartly started the inning with another pitcher who turned out to be the most impressive pitcher this game! Brubaker making his ml debut and came in mowing down top and heart our order to lock down the win and effectively kill the over. We got the 5 runs from pirates I was expecting but cards offense refused to do any the lifting.

Travel day Monday then a tough series against the sluggers from minny. Very excited to see Carlos Martinez return to starting against this lineup, gonna be a huge test for him to see if he back to the top the rotation guy we need him to be!
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Cards are perpetually terrible against pitchers they never faced before or don‘t have any video on
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They remain awful against off speed stuff as well. Think they had worst ba against last season and doesn’t look much better thus far. They looked stupid flailing at that brubaker kids breaking stuff.
 
Homer Bailey
(min) - throws R vs. stl - 8:10 PM EDT - Target Field RotoGuru ESPN MLB Yahoo RotoBaller BB-Ref FanGraphs

BATTER​
NPPAABH2B3BHRRRBIBBSOSBCSAVGOBPSLGOPSwOBA ISO
other site links​
6316156202451300.400.438.9331.371.562.533
201494621402983711.457.490.6741.164.502.217
24972001222101.286.444.7141.159.478.429
191555020303573620.400.436.6401.076.457.240
9622186210334210.333.455.5561.010.436.222
8331100000100.333.333.6671.000.417.333
8722195201442410.263.364.526.890.382.263
3811114000100200.364.364.364.727.327.000
10330000000000.000.000.000.000.000.000
Active totals for
St. Louis Cardinals:​
7181901726514192829152652.378.432.6281.059.454.250
 
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