SEC Week 11 Discussion
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gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
but if running on Alabama is the bar you set for the team, you're going to be disappointed.
pressitup
Leader of the Adult Humor Industry
One other thing for you Bama boys. Something I noticed( and I hate this about the spread and offenses in general nowadays), #11, lines up in the slot. Left foot forward, team relaxes , looks to the sideline, gets set and #11 switches feet to right front. play starts, runs left. If he starts right foot front, then switches---runs right.
May just have happened on a couple of plays as there wasn't always a camera on him, or I was busy, but I remember seeing it on at least two plays that he changed his lead foot to what would be the cut/plant foot.
May just have happened on a couple of plays as there wasn't always a camera on him, or I was busy, but I remember seeing it on at least two plays that he changed his lead foot to what would be the cut/plant foot.
CrimsonK
Sid Bream Supporter
Pretty astute observation there, press. We may need to get you on staff at bama with the other 325 "analysts". I've never noticed that.
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
yes
LF missed some holes......I am not sure what you are getting at?
Bama has a ferocious D line......doesn't shange the fact that our current O line is not good enough for LSU standards
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
My point is that Fournette has wrecked teams for 2.5 seasons with what you call a subpar OL. Career average is something like 7.5 ypc against everyone not named Alabama. If you want a college OL to be able to push around Alabama's defense for 5 yards a carry, you're going to be looking for a really long time
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
No
I want people that play the natural position.....and good ones(read the article)
LSU as of late has been lights out getting world class skill position players(RBs, WRs and DBs)......been a real deficiency getting O-line and D-Line......been better of late, but Miles fucked up(and let us throw QB in there too, huh).....they have some NOW, they are just young.....
we recruit the same kids
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
OL is pretty tough to recruit because so much of it is a projection, not that different than QB. Most guys that get recruited to big programs probably play left tackle for their high school team because they are the best OL they have. Same as why the most athletic guy usually plays QB. Guys who play interior line in HS probably aren't going to be playing in the SEC. So it's a projection for everyone. I wouldn't necessarily blame Miles because some of those guys didn't pan out. Having a 6'7" C is unusual. Haven't there been tons of injuries for LSU's OL? Injuries can certainly force players to play out of position because you want your 5 best out there at all times.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Not sure how anyone can bet on this game with any confidence regardless of the line/total
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
It
is a few things....and I am not one of these "build the team to beat bama" LSU guys.....the O line has to be better though. QB needs to be better. Do I think you have to run spread offense? Not esentially, but the shuffling of O line guys all over the place isn't ideal. It can work in a pinch and a guy like Pocic, you can't even measure the value. But be it Grimes or Miles or whomever.....it has just been unacceptable.....like I said, it is getting better.....but LSU needs trench guys, again. I think it is coming, like I said. And yea, it is the toughest to predict like QB, but those guys were on skates and you can't have a Purdue transfer back there to navigate it.....the offensive game plan coulda been a little better to.....
understand i am not taking anything away from bama :shake2:
Grovehard
Pretty much a regular
Shocked wouldnt begin to describe my thoughts if Oregon offered Freeze the job and he accepted it. It's not likely, but a show cause is possible for Freeze, and this investigation has taken on a very personal tone meaning that I dont think that the NCAA would relent simply because Freeze left Oxford. Also, after Freeze passed on UF two years ago, and yes, he was absolutley offered that job, I dont see him uprooting his kids to move cross country. There's also the money. Freeze makes 4.7 a year. That goes a long way in north Mississippi. I hesitate to add this lest I sound like the stereotypical SEC message board hero, but I have heard from an impeccable source that he would leave for 2 jobs. Oregon isnt one of them.
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M.W.
Parties like it's 1979
I heard Mike MacIntyre thank his Bible study group after the last game, and he seems to be working out all right in Boulder.
Grovehard
Pretty much a regular
If Freeze were to leave, which again I think is incredibly unlikely, then I think Ole Miss would reach out to Mac.
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Texas would be one IMO
Grovehard
Pretty much a regular
Winner.
GWarner27
Meatballin' in Celtics Stadium
Jfc
cointosser
Pretty much a regular
That should end Saturday
We need to put together and ALL SEC East team together in this thread.
After we put this team together could it beat an SEC WEST team?
Whike we are at it we might as well put together our collective ALL SEC Team and see how it compares to the end of the year team. (Let's do and ALL WEST Team as well)
just starters
After we put this team together could it beat an SEC WEST team?
Whike we are at it we might as well put together our collective ALL SEC Team and see how it compares to the end of the year team. (Let's do and ALL WEST Team as well)
just starters
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
Timh
CTG Psychiatrist - Dr. Tim
Grove, seems like a very ? move at this point.
Grovehard
Pretty much a regular
I agree. This could be a career defining move for Freeze. He'll get a pass for this season no matter what, but if Patterson gets hurt or his confidence shattered, then we will probably look back on this as the beginning of the end for Freeze. On the other hand, if Patterson looks great and keeps the team competitive, then Freeze salvages some momentum for next year while getting his QB of the future valuable reps. It's a tough call.
CrimsonK
Sid Bream Supporter
On the opening night of the 2016 season, South Carolina and Vanderbilt met in Nashville. Will Muschamp's Gamecocks outlasted Derek Mason's Commodores in a defensive slugfest. They trailed 10-0 at halftime, but Deebo Samuel's 8-yard run tied the game midway through the fourth quarter, and Elliott Fry's dramatic 55-yard field goal gave them the lead with 35 seconds left.
Barely three weeks later, the tables were turned. South Carolina led Kentucky at halftime in Lexington, but a 65-yard touchdown drive capped by Benny Snell gave the Wildcats a 17-10 edge that held up. With barely two minutes left, Denzil Ware sacked Brandon McIlwain on fourth down from the UK 35, sealing the UK win.
Admit it: You knew. When you were watching these spectacular slugfests, you knew that you were taking in vital football. You knew you were watching games that would play a significant role in the title race of what is generally college football's best conference.
Of course you didn't know. No one did. No one should have. The SEC East was supposed to be decided on Sept. 24, when Tennessee finally ended a long losing streak against Florida. The Volunteers' Hail Mary win over Georgia was icing on the cake. This was the year that Butch Jones' squad would take all the drama out of the division race.
Unfortunately for the folks from Knoxville, this was instead the year that Tennessee would get wrecked by injury. Since mid-October alone, defensive linemen Danny O'Brien, Kahlil McKenzie, and Shy Tuttle were either dismissed or lost to season-ending injury. Linebacker Jalen Reeves-Maybin is out. Defensive back Evan Berry is out. And on offense, starting running back Jalen Hurd got hurt, then transferred. Alvin Kamara, an excellent No. 2, got hurt almost immediately thereafter.
Tennessee began the season 5-0, then lost three straight. Falling at Texas A&M in overtime is no great shame, but the Vols were dominated in a home loss to Alabama, then hit the road after a bye week and lost to a South Carolina team led by a true freshman (Jake Bentley) in his second start.
This opened the door for Florida to take over. Despite shaky offense, the Gators won three straight after the loss to Tennessee. But they got thumped at Arkansas on Saturday, their defense beginning to show signs of strain.
Florida's loss gave Kentucky -- Kentucky! -- a golden opportunity. If the Wildcats could beat Georgia, they would be a stunning 5-2 in conference, one win away from the crown.
They lost via last-second field goal.
[h=3]With three Saturdays left in the regular season, we know three things:[/h][h=4]1. Four teams are still eligible for the SEC East crown.[/h]Florida once again controls its destiny at 4-2 in conference play, but if the Gators slip -- and goodness knows that seems plausible at this point -- then 4-3 Kentucky, 3-4 South Carolina, and 2-3 Tennessee could still seize the title. (Georgia and Vanderbilt could end up tying for the division lead in some scenarios but wouldn't win any of the potential tiebreakers.)
[h=4]2. The SEC East is really, really bad.[/h]Almost incomprehensibly bad.
Auburn is up to No. 7 in the S&P+ ratings, and LSU is eighth. Ole Miss, with four losses to teams in the top 12, still checks in at 16th, while Texas A&M is 20th, bipolar Arkansas is 46th, and Mississippi State is 60th. The two worst teams in the divisions just scored huge wins (over Florida and A&M, respectively).
The East, meanwhile, boasts one team in the top 30: a Florida team that could be on the precipice of a huge fall. Tennessee sits at No. 32. And while teams like Kentucky and South Carolina have unquestionably played better football in the last month, no other East team ranks better than 58th.
[h=4]3. Somebody from the East has to play in the SEC title game.[/h]So let’s find out who that might be. Because of tie-breakers, the following eight games could still play a role in determining the East champion:
S&P+ odds also see the Gators as a clear favorite, with a 71.7 percent chance of one of those 179 Florida scenarios coming to fruition. Tennessee’s odds are still decent at 24.4 percent, while South Carolina is at 2.2 percent and Kentucky is at 1.7.
Four of these potentially decisive games take place on Saturday, and the two most important kick off at noon ET: South Carolina-Florida and Kentucky-Tennessee.
If Florida beats South Carolina and Kentucky beats Tennessee, the race is over — Florida wins. But if Muschamp and the Gamecocks pull an upset of Muschamp’s former team, things get weird in a hurry.
SEC East odds, based on the results of Saturday noon kickoffs (South Carolina-Florida and Kentucky-Tennessee):
It doesn’t have to be this way, you know. We use divisions to determine title game participants because that’s simply what we’ve always done. But as with the electoral college, there’s a simpler, far more satisfying way to decide this.
Still, we don’t have to do it this way. We could have the two best teams in a given conference against play each other instead, and not in a Big 12-ish, guaranteed-rematch sort of way.
As it stands, there is still a scenario in which South Carolina, the 86th-best team in the country in 2016, according to S&P+, plays Alabama in Atlanta. There’s an industry for snuff film, but blockbusters tend to fare better.
Barely three weeks later, the tables were turned. South Carolina led Kentucky at halftime in Lexington, but a 65-yard touchdown drive capped by Benny Snell gave the Wildcats a 17-10 edge that held up. With barely two minutes left, Denzil Ware sacked Brandon McIlwain on fourth down from the UK 35, sealing the UK win.
Admit it: You knew. When you were watching these spectacular slugfests, you knew that you were taking in vital football. You knew you were watching games that would play a significant role in the title race of what is generally college football's best conference.
Of course you didn't know. No one did. No one should have. The SEC East was supposed to be decided on Sept. 24, when Tennessee finally ended a long losing streak against Florida. The Volunteers' Hail Mary win over Georgia was icing on the cake. This was the year that Butch Jones' squad would take all the drama out of the division race.
Tennessee began the season 5-0, then lost three straight. Falling at Texas A&M in overtime is no great shame, but the Vols were dominated in a home loss to Alabama, then hit the road after a bye week and lost to a South Carolina team led by a true freshman (Jake Bentley) in his second start.
This opened the door for Florida to take over. Despite shaky offense, the Gators won three straight after the loss to Tennessee. But they got thumped at Arkansas on Saturday, their defense beginning to show signs of strain.
They lost via last-second field goal.
[h=3]With three Saturdays left in the regular season, we know three things:[/h][h=4]1. Four teams are still eligible for the SEC East crown.[/h]Florida once again controls its destiny at 4-2 in conference play, but if the Gators slip -- and goodness knows that seems plausible at this point -- then 4-3 Kentucky, 3-4 South Carolina, and 2-3 Tennessee could still seize the title. (Georgia and Vanderbilt could end up tying for the division lead in some scenarios but wouldn't win any of the potential tiebreakers.)
[h=4]2. The SEC East is really, really bad.[/h]Almost incomprehensibly bad.
How bad has the SEC East become? According to S&P efficiency ratings by SB Nation's Bill Connelly, the Mountain West's Mountain Division is stronger than the SEC East in 2016.
That's not a misprint. A division with Wyoming, Boise State, New Mexico, Colorado State, Air Force and Utah State is considered better than a division with Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Missouri and Vanderbilt.
If that doesn't set the SEC East's hair on fire, I don't know what will. Every time we think the SEC East can't get any worse, the bar drops lower.
The SEC West is by far the best division in the country once again. The average S&P+ rating in the West is plus-15.1 adjusted points per game, and that’s not just because of Alabama (though Alabama helps).That's not a misprint. A division with Wyoming, Boise State, New Mexico, Colorado State, Air Force and Utah State is considered better than a division with Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Missouri and Vanderbilt.
If that doesn't set the SEC East's hair on fire, I don't know what will. Every time we think the SEC East can't get any worse, the bar drops lower.
Auburn is up to No. 7 in the S&P+ ratings, and LSU is eighth. Ole Miss, with four losses to teams in the top 12, still checks in at 16th, while Texas A&M is 20th, bipolar Arkansas is 46th, and Mississippi State is 60th. The two worst teams in the divisions just scored huge wins (over Florida and A&M, respectively).
The East, meanwhile, boasts one team in the top 30: a Florida team that could be on the precipice of a huge fall. Tennessee sits at No. 32. And while teams like Kentucky and South Carolina have unquestionably played better football in the last month, no other East team ranks better than 58th.
[h=4]3. Somebody from the East has to play in the SEC title game.[/h]So let’s find out who that might be. Because of tie-breakers, the following eight games could still play a role in determining the East champion:
- Nov. 12: South Carolina at Florida, Kentucky at Tennessee, Vanderbilt at Missouri, Auburn at Georgia
- Nov. 19: Florida at LSU, Missouri at Tennessee, Ole Miss at Vanderbilt
- Nov. 26: Tennessee at Vanderbilt
S&P+ odds also see the Gators as a clear favorite, with a 71.7 percent chance of one of those 179 Florida scenarios coming to fruition. Tennessee’s odds are still decent at 24.4 percent, while South Carolina is at 2.2 percent and Kentucky is at 1.7.
Four of these potentially decisive games take place on Saturday, and the two most important kick off at noon ET: South Carolina-Florida and Kentucky-Tennessee.
If Florida beats South Carolina and Kentucky beats Tennessee, the race is over — Florida wins. But if Muschamp and the Gamecocks pull an upset of Muschamp’s former team, things get weird in a hurry.
SEC East odds, based on the results of Saturday noon kickoffs (South Carolina-Florida and Kentucky-Tennessee):
- Florida and Kentucky win: Florida 100%
- South Carolina and Kentucky win: Kentucky 53%, Florida 47%
- Florida and Tennessee win: Florida 71%, Tennessee 29%
- South Carolina and Tennessee win: Tennessee 55%, South Carolina 23%, Florida 22%
It doesn’t have to be this way, you know. We use divisions to determine title game participants because that’s simply what we’ve always done. But as with the electoral college, there’s a simpler, far more satisfying way to decide this.
We should get rid of divisions, and we should replace them with small groups of annual rivals.
Every major SEC rivalry would be protected.
A couple rivalries complicate the SEC puzzle. Alabama has to play Tennessee every year; Auburn has to play Georgia every year. But those go across divisions. If you move Auburn to the East, Alabama can only play either Auburn or Tennessee every year, and that's how Revelation starts.
Currently, everyone has a cross-division rival, even though most pairs make little sense. We love to make fun of the Ole Miss-Vanderbilt Khaki Bowl, and Florida-LSU is good because it gets weird, but this is a lot of fuss.
So, the core of the proposal: scrap divisions, and give everybody three guaranteed rivals.
You play your three chief rivals and a rotating cast of five other conference opponents each year. Within any two-year span, you end up playing every team in the conference. Within any four-year span, you’ve visited every opponent’s home stadium. How novel!Every major SEC rivalry would be protected.
A couple rivalries complicate the SEC puzzle. Alabama has to play Tennessee every year; Auburn has to play Georgia every year. But those go across divisions. If you move Auburn to the East, Alabama can only play either Auburn or Tennessee every year, and that's how Revelation starts.
Currently, everyone has a cross-division rival, even though most pairs make little sense. We love to make fun of the Ole Miss-Vanderbilt Khaki Bowl, and Florida-LSU is good because it gets weird, but this is a lot of fuss.
So, the core of the proposal: scrap divisions, and give everybody three guaranteed rivals.
Under the current format, former rivals Auburn and Florida haven't played since 2011. People born on the day of that game will be in middle school the next time the Gators play at Jordan-Hare, in 2024.
Newer SEC addition Texas A&M hasn't played at Kentucky since 1953, and won't do so again until 20-damn-25.
Georgia went six straight years without facing Nick Saban in the regular season.
This is stretching the definition of a conference and revealing that the whole point of this is ... not competition and kinship. Many fans get one shot per decade at road trips to Baton Rouge or Athens. Most players and many coaches only get three years to make their marks, so entire careers come and go without rivals meeting.
At the end of an eight-game conference schedule, the top two teams in the standings play in the conference title game. Easy peasy.Newer SEC addition Texas A&M hasn't played at Kentucky since 1953, and won't do so again until 20-damn-25.
Georgia went six straight years without facing Nick Saban in the regular season.
This is stretching the definition of a conference and revealing that the whole point of this is ... not competition and kinship. Many fans get one shot per decade at road trips to Baton Rouge or Athens. Most players and many coaches only get three years to make their marks, so entire careers come and go without rivals meeting.
Only '90s kids remember when the SEC West trotted out division champs with glorious No. 16 poll rankings while a highly ranked East team missed the SEC Championship. These days, the East is the one polluting the Georgia Dome.
Imagine getting the 2011 Bama-LSU rematch out of the way before the BCS (hey, Oklahoma State!). South Carolina's rematch against Cam Newton's Auburn went poorly, but maybe Arkansas or LSU could've competed? In 1995, 10-1 Tennessee would've gotten one more shot at 11-0 Florida, instead of the Gators batting around No. 23 Arkansas.
[What if three or more teams are totally tied for first? Playoff rankings tiebreaker, like some other conferences use. That's the smart business move, since you don't want your Playoff longshot taking a spot from your top teams.]
We’ve drawn morbid entertainment from bad divisions through the years. We joked for years about the possibility of a seven-way tie at 4-4 in the ACC Coastal, and yes, a six-way 4-4 tie is still a technical possibility in the SEC East this year.Imagine getting the 2011 Bama-LSU rematch out of the way before the BCS (hey, Oklahoma State!). South Carolina's rematch against Cam Newton's Auburn went poorly, but maybe Arkansas or LSU could've competed? In 1995, 10-1 Tennessee would've gotten one more shot at 11-0 Florida, instead of the Gators batting around No. 23 Arkansas.
[What if three or more teams are totally tied for first? Playoff rankings tiebreaker, like some other conferences use. That's the smart business move, since you don't want your Playoff longshot taking a spot from your top teams.]
Still, we don’t have to do it this way. We could have the two best teams in a given conference against play each other instead, and not in a Big 12-ish, guaranteed-rematch sort of way.
As it stands, there is still a scenario in which South Carolina, the 86th-best team in the country in 2016, according to S&P+, plays Alabama in Atlanta. There’s an industry for snuff film, but blockbusters tend to fare better.
CrimsonK
Sid Bream Supporter
Patterson prob isn't a guy that is leaving early even if he ends up being as good as forecasted just because he doesn't have the prototypical size and he isn't in an offense that is going to easily translate into early NFL success, IMO. I think you go ahead and play him - trying to salvage some recruiting by playing well and getting those bowl practices mean a lot more, IMO, than maybe saving him for an extra year. Just keep recruiting QB well and plug someone else in if he leaves early.
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
PFF
says LSU's O line is the best in CFB
I just don't buy it, playing all guards, no Ts
figured you would like that gps:tiphat:
CrimsonK
Sid Bream Supporter
I realize after re-thinking and rereading this that my logic on the first part is probably flawed. I think if you were sure he was leaving after three then Go head and pull it
Timh
CTG Psychiatrist - Dr. Tim
Wow that surprises me. Not that they don't have talent but really rated the best OL in college football? I find that highly ?
CrimsonK
Sid Bream Supporter
PFF OL evaluations have honestly made me question the validity to anything they say. When Iowa and LSU have been top OL in nation per them it's clear they are either very lazy or very confused on what constitutes a good OL - I would have both groups in the bottom half of all P5
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
CrimsonK
Sid Bream Supporter
[FONT="]
[FONT="]Ole Miss will remove the redshirt from QB Shea Patterson to replace the injured Chad Kelly and start Saturday vs. No. 8 Texas A&M.[/FONT]
CrimsonK
Sid Bream Supporter
GL SIGO
Couple more for me and that oughta do it. I can't figure out how I wanna play the Michigan/Iowa game but that is my strongest unplayed lean, under 51 the way i would play it and ay for a just a few bucks but prob not anything bigger. Will be outta pocket for most the weekend - GL fellas
Tulane TT Over 10.5 -120
Miss St/Alabama Under 30 1H
Couple more for me and that oughta do it. I can't figure out how I wanna play the Michigan/Iowa game but that is my strongest unplayed lean, under 51 the way i would play it and ay for a just a few bucks but prob not anything bigger. Will be outta pocket for most the weekend - GL fellas
Tulane TT Over 10.5 -120
Miss St/Alabama Under 30 1H
