Russia-Netherlands Discussion

The_HAMMER

Pretty much a regular
Well...the obvious choice here is the Dutch as they appear to be heavy favourites.

But I like this young Russian squad...they are a resilient bunch.

Anyone here think they can pull off the upset???

Is Russia a potential 'an_horse' ???????
 
I'm playing the Russians on this one. The Dutch haven't played a team that has or can run for 90 minutes. Plus, Guus Hiddink is a mastermind when it comes to tactics and he knows that Dutch team inside and out.

ATP might have a good lean there on the Over, as I think this has a making of a regulation win so the likely hood of that 2-1 to come in would be in our favor.
 
I don't see Russia pulling off the upset, the dutch attack is something else. Definitely agree with the over.
 
I don't see Russia pulling off the upset, the dutch attack is something else. Definitely agree with the over.

What sort of defense have the Dutch faced anyways?

The Russians have at least had to compete with the Spaniards and even though they lost 4-1 actually had a chance to create something else. Either way this game really comes down to discipline and coaching. I can say at this point of the tournament, backing a team at the price the Netherlands are asking for could be very dangerous. I'd suggest playing -1 to get at least some sort of value if you truly think the Dutch will destroy the Russians
 
What sort of defense have the Dutch faced anyways?

The Russians have at least had to compete with the Spaniards and even though they lost 4-1 actually had a chance to create something else. Either way this game really comes down to discipline and coaching. I can say at this point of the tournament, backing a team at the price the Netherlands are asking for could be very dangerous. I'd suggest playing -1 to get at least some sort of value if you truly think the Dutch will destroy the Russians

Good points all mentioned above. Can't disagree with the over. I have to agree with you TM. However, I would consider the "value" to be on the Russians IMO.

I don't beleive the score was the best indication to how the game really played out when Spain beat them. I beleive it was a great wake-up call as they showed some real poise against a fairly decent Sweden team.

I really have no idea what to make of the Dutch....certainly they've looked fantastic but they faced very under-preforming competition. Hence my reason for backing the Spanish in their uncoming match against the Italians.

I think the price is worth the stab on the Russkis. Cheers gents. BOL.
 
Good points all mentioned above. Can't disagree with the over. I have to agree with you TM. However, I would consider the "value" to be on the Russians IMO.

I don't beleive the score was the best indication to how the game really played out when Spain beat them. I beleive it was a great wake-up call as they showed some real poise against a fairly decent Sweden team.

I really have no idea what to make of the Dutch....certainly they've looked fantastic but they faced very under-preforming competition. Hence my reason for backing the Spanish in their uncoming match against the Italians.

I think the price is worth the stab on the Russkis. Cheers gents. BOL.

Hammer, I was just saying if people were to play the Dutch, the value would be playing -1 at around 2.00ish. Reason being is that if the Dutch have that one goal lead with 10mins to go, you will see the Russians press like crazy and well that would leave the Dutch capable of a counter attack and we know with their speed they will be off to the races.

I'm on the Russians though. Simply because price and the way they have played do not seem to judge them very well. But even you noticed that the 4-1 scoreline vs Spain did not do them any justice. Whoever watched the Sweden/Russia game will know just how vital Arshavin is, honestly, his pace alone would of made a difference in the Russian attack vs Spain. This should be an entertaining game due to the pace both teams can play in.

Side note though, Khalid Boulahrouz is emotionally dented by the loss of his child that died prematurely. So expect an emotional response by the squad to support their teammate.
 
Do the Russians have those 2 injured guys back who missed game 1? or were/are they out for the Tourney as a whole?

Russia has conceded no goals for 2 games straight, while the Dutch have won every game by 2+ goals thus far. Those 2 facts to my mind's eye spell danger for the Over, in so far as the Dutch are in line for a game where things don't come easy, and Russia's defense is there 9since their 1st game hiccup) to indicate they have the platform to provide such a contest. Wouldn't be surpised to see a 1-0 Dutch win, or even 1-1 after 90.
 
Well, you have to think the streak ends don't you, Bet?

Now, I haven't seen this Russian team all that much, and maybe they can game plan better than anybody, but I don't exactly associate them with the best defenses out there. Maybe I just don't know enough about 'em.

I'm thinking 2-1, 3-2, 3-1, not sure who wins, though.
 
Joe, I'm just so familiar with big Soccer touraments (the only time I consider soccer wagering) and the knock out rounds, how many times have we seen scoring form for both sides entering a knockout game and 90 mins & 1-0 later left wondering what happened to the flair that was promised pre-game. 3-2 for a knockout game isn't the norm, the odds are simply high 1 (if not 2) of the 3 remaining games will give us such a low scoring affair. Since the Dutch and Spanish form 1 half of 2 of those 3 games, it's therefore easy to prject that 1 will not provide what's expected of them. Turkey has conceded goals every game, as well as scoring 5 goals in their last 2 games, so there's no particular reason to think the low scoring contest coming should of right be the CRO/TUR affair.

BTW, can you tell me if there's a 3rd & 4th playoff for this tourney?
 
Man, that's a question I should know the answer to, but off-hand I don't know it. I lean toward . . no?

I also agree with you about the knockout stage, but here's why I lean over here.

I haven't seen ANYTHING from the Dutch defense yet in this thing. They're not built to play defense, which is fine, but that means they need to score.
Again, fine, they just have to do it.

Normally goals slow here because teams get more conservative, they score once and go into clog-the-middle mode. But the Dutch don't know how to do that, not from what I've seen.

Meanwhile, Russia, to me, doesn't look like Romania, with defense first, second, and third in their priority list.

While I think they may be more traditional, and that if they do score first, they will look to win 1-0. But first, I don't think they score first, and second, even if they do, that just means more offense from the Dutch.

An over here does need Russia, I think, but I think Russia has enough offense and enough comittment--against a bad enough defense--to get a goal here.

Now, if they win 1-0 or draw 1-1 they can take my money because they'll have earned it. More than likely, though, I see 2-1 here at least.

Other games, however, I agree with you, it'll probably get tighter, though only Germany right now looks to me to be playing good defense.
 
croatia is playing solid D

Dammit, I knew I forgot someone, good call. What a horrible spot for Turkey tomorrow, by the way.

Italy 'should' be playing good D, but, alas, they're not.
 
Im nervous about this Croatia game, the number is too good to be true, youd figure theyd be favored around -180 with all the suspension
 
Croatia does look very GOOD BUT LETS LOOK CLOSER AT IT---

Their price is fair considering they are favored -205 to advance and getting a reduction in -0.5 at 115 now-- Are they saying the likelihood of extra time is high here?

Also are they saying that Croatia is likely to advance but dont count on them winning in regulation?

I think this price of fair considering a team like POrtugal was paying +140 for the win, this is about 50 points higher for the CROATS?

If it was Italy , SPain or PORGUAL playing instead of Croatia the line would be -160 to win in regulation--
 
With regard to the Netherland Russia, holland will score, there is no way russia wins 1-0

My take is that Russia played 2 of the worst offensive teams in the tourny-

GREEKS SUCKED really bad--
Sweden was slow and OLD and had no attacking football---

Russia has just played 2 of the slower offensive teams now they go to playing arguably the fastest team in the tourny the DUTCH--

The speedy ROBBEN and VAN PERSIE , RUUD and KUYT, SCHENDIER are too much, they will score on RUSSIA who is weak on DEFENSE--

Only scenario I see Russia winning is in extra time after a tie of 1-1 or 2-2 in regulation--


I dont see how Holland is weak in DEFENSE-- They gave up 1 goal in the first round and have one of the best goalie in the world in VAN DER SAR.

He is clutch and their D is from AJAX who is a great side--

I think another team can do better vs DUTCH, not a team that tries to outscore them, they have better offensive players than RUSSIA I can tell you that
 
Are you referring to a 3rd place game between the losers of the semi final game?

Euro 2008 - Knock-Out Phase


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><THEAD><TR><TH scope=col>Quarter Finals</TH><TH scope=col>Semi Finals</TH><TH scope=col>Final</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR><TD class="qf upper">QF1

Portugal 2 - 3 Germany
Thu, Jun 19 19:45
St. Jakob-Park, Basel

</TD><TD class="sf upper" rowSpan=2>SF1

Winner QF1 vs Winner QF2
Wed, Jun 25 19:45
St. Jakob-Park, Basel

</TD><TD class=final rowSpan=4>Final

Winner SF1 vs Winner SF2
Sun, Jun 29 19:45
Ernst Happel, Vienna

</TD></TR><TR><TD class="qf lower">QF2

Croatia vs Turkey
Fri, Jun 20 19:45
Ernst Happel, Vienna

</TD></TR><TR><TD class="qf upper">QF3

Netherlands vs Russia
Sat, Jun 21 19:45
St. Jakob-Park, Basel

</TD><TD class="sf lower" rowSpan=2>SF2

Winner QF3 vs Winner QF4
Thu, Jun 26 19:45
Ernst Happel, Vienna

</TD></TR><TR><TD class="qf lower">QF4

Spain vs Italy
Sun, Jun 22 19:45

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Sammy - can you tell me if there's a 3rd & 4th playoff for this tourney?


I can tell you with 100% assurance that in Euro 2004 there was not a 3rd place game because Czech Republic never played Netherlands. I believe they abolished it for the first time in Euro 1984.
 
Thanks, guys.

1 of my books has an option for the total goals in the tourney, and over 75.5 is +150. 62 are the books currently, I just needed to find out how many games were left to figure out the math.

If there were 7 games left, it only required 2/game. Unfortunately it's 6.
 
I think that goes over--

There has not been any 0-0 games--

Most games have 3 goals

With holland and Russia they can score I think we could see a 4 or 5 goal game with some teams--

SPain and Italy should get 2 in regulation--

Turkey tomorrow could have 3 goals easy

I dont find there is any teams like GREECE who sit on the ball, ITALY is the closest--

RUssia, Holland, Spain, Germans, TUrks, Croats are all scoring teams--

Italy may not be but is good for 1 goal a game-- I cannot see any teams playing defensive football, all teams are offensive minded, so i see your over as having a good chance

There is almost always a goal before the 30 minute mark of the first half--


CRIMES there is a misconception that now cause this is playoffs games will be lower scoring, if anything it is the exact opposite, look at today 4 goals between Portual and Germany and there could have been 6 goals--

Tomorrow I expect 3 goals possibly, if Turks can score one, Croatis shoudl score at least 1 or 2 also--
 
Crimes this is not club soccer where teams can win 1-0

The team down starts attacking and gets beaten for a goal on the counter or scores to equalize-- The pace has been set for getting about 3 goals a game, and I see that continuing unless one of the teams wins games 1-0 and wins the whole thing--

also the number of set pieces is on the rise meaning more scoring chances-- ALso there has not been so many penalties awarded, i look for there to be at least 2 awarded so that gives you 2 goals right there bro
 
I still wouldnt be willing to call Phil overrated. Chelsea will be pretty good this year, I like Liverpool a lot, im a big Torres fan
 
If Madrid gets Ronaldo like there aiming to do, Im gonna have to say they should win it
 
BC,
about those 2 players you were concerned about.

Andrei Arshavin is in, he scored vs the Swedes in the last game and his pace was really what ignited the Russians.
Ummm not too sure which 2nd player you were thinking but Pavel Pogrebnyak was already scratched off the team due to a lengthy injury. Roman Pavlyuchenko was a little bit of a doubt but he has done well scoring 2 goals and leading the attack.
 
Great thread guys. Me too am questioning the line on the Croatia game. Why is it only -115? Kind of weird. Hard not to like Croatia in this game with Turkey's starting keeper not playing and other injuries.

Hate to say this but I was all over Spain a few days ago to beat Italy but after what Germany did yesterday I might be changing my stance in that game.

Will definitely be on the Russians or the over.
 
I still like Croatia....regardless of the line - i don't think it's too far off. It will likely be a close game as the Turks are a fiesty bunch...but I beleive the Croats might just have enough. I see it being decided by one goal. Call it 2-1 Croatia.

I have to take the Russians (out of spite), just because of the price. I know the Dutch are fast and talented but this line is way offside. Absolutely no respect for the Russkis I tell ya. Hoping they pull-off the upset and take over as my 'an_horse'.

Also still rolling with the Spaniards on Sunday. As mentioned, I love the Italians but I think their losses are just too substantial and I truly beleive that their lack of depth will show. Something about Spain this year - they might just get the "Mouse off their back".

BOL ATP and to everyone for that matter. Enjoy!

:cheers:
 
BC,
about those 2 players you were concerned about.

Andrei Arshavin is in, he scored vs the Swedes in the last game and his pace was really what ignited the Russians.
Ummm not too sure which 2nd player you were thinking but Pavel Pogrebnyak was already scratched off the team due to a lengthy injury. Roman Pavlyuchenko was a little bit of a doubt but he has done well scoring 2 goals and leading the attack.

Thanks, TM
 
Really liking the dutch tomorrow, but laying chalk at -0.5 in the quarters is very unappealing to me.... and the vig for taking them to advance is pretty steep.

i really think the best bet tomorrow is over 2.5 goals.... and possibly 3.5 as well for some value.

we should see a very open game tomorrow.... unlike todays snoozefest
 
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