Report: Shaq for Marion deal in the works
- Thread starter H.R. Pufnstuf
- Start date
MemphisFan
Pretty much a regular
Wouldn't it be funny if they fell out of the playoff race now?
Goopster24
Pretty much a regular
Some of you guys are ridiculous. Killing the notion this will happen and now we are a "yes" and physical away from this happening. LMAO.
And sfcapper stole the words out of my mind, great post! They said they wanted to either get rid of Amare or Marion because of chemistry problems. Kerr deemed Amare more valuable. Who woudla thought? I'm rolling my eyes, Marion was suppose to be gone before the season started, remember?
I wish Paxson had these balls. He has NONE!
And sfcapper stole the words out of my mind, great post! They said they wanted to either get rid of Amare or Marion because of chemistry problems. Kerr deemed Amare more valuable. Who woudla thought? I'm rolling my eyes, Marion was suppose to be gone before the season started, remember?
I wish Paxson had these balls. He has NONE!
Gorgolon Lives
The Reverend of CTG
If the Suns aren't finished yet, we will glad take Stoudamire in a sign-and-trade for [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Iguodala[/FONT]
slayer202
Pretty much a regular
way to go coming in after more news comes out about the deal...most sane people would realize this move is stupid as fuck
Really havent read much of this thread but I can see people jumping to conclusions without thinking.
First off it doesnt take long to realize that this trade is a GAMBLE for the Suns. What's wrong with gambling ?? Clearly there objective is win now and all they did was add salary with one of the most marketable players in the history of the NBA. If it's all about winning this year then why not? Why not take a guy who could retire after this season? Why not take a guy who regardless will still have some trade value due to his name alone.There was no better fit out there then Shaq. So explain what exactly they have to lose ???
How many championships has Marion won ? He was 100% GONE after this season and the only reason he stayed this year is because management wanted to give the team the best chance to win. They felt like they owed it to the players. Like some have explained guess what Shaq is more instrumental then Marion in a playoff series. Marion is a good player sort of a Scottie Pippen exceling in the perfect situation. That perfect situation is gone. He's really option number 3 on that team. His offensive game is nothing special as evidence by his 15.8 ppg. His best assets are rebounding and defense . Think Shaq can handle that role. Grant Hill's role in the up tempo offense will have him attacking the hoop more then trying to become a 3 pt specialist.
Why would anyone be foolish enough to think PHO expects Shaq to run up and down the court? I mean how many fast breaks have more then 3 guys running the lanes? Thats commonsense. This is all about Shaq starting the fast break and running the half court offense through him. Its about balance which Pho had none of. They rose to fame with excellent long range shooting which has diappeared over the seasons. Now on offense they can kill you both ways. We all know they can push the ball but now you have to chose your poison when the game slows down. Which it will in the playoffs. Defend Shaq one on one or double team and watch him pass out to the open man. Which mid range jumpers PHO can nail.
Clearly a no-brainer for Miami. See if Marion fits into Miami and if not you saved the last 2 years of a big contract on a team who is nowhere near playoff caliber let alone championship caliber.
You dont think Shaq will be happy to see Kobe soon??
The reason why Gasol wasnt a better fit then Shaq is cause he plays no defense.
So its a risk but I love to see a guy be different and have some balls. Think outside the box abit.
Thinking Pho will somehow tank in the regular season is laughable. They have more then enough offense tomake up for Marion's absence. Marion is not winning many games and Hill , Barbosa and Diaw even Bell can pick up the slack....
Lets reserve judgement till its all said and done IMO.........I for one am looking forward to seeing Shaq play in Pho. Change can be the fountain of youth....
Ron Artest lands where?...NYK..??
First off it doesnt take long to realize that this trade is a GAMBLE for the Suns. What's wrong with gambling ?? Clearly there objective is win now and all they did was add salary with one of the most marketable players in the history of the NBA. If it's all about winning this year then why not? Why not take a guy who could retire after this season? Why not take a guy who regardless will still have some trade value due to his name alone.There was no better fit out there then Shaq. So explain what exactly they have to lose ???
How many championships has Marion won ? He was 100% GONE after this season and the only reason he stayed this year is because management wanted to give the team the best chance to win. They felt like they owed it to the players. Like some have explained guess what Shaq is more instrumental then Marion in a playoff series. Marion is a good player sort of a Scottie Pippen exceling in the perfect situation. That perfect situation is gone. He's really option number 3 on that team. His offensive game is nothing special as evidence by his 15.8 ppg. His best assets are rebounding and defense . Think Shaq can handle that role. Grant Hill's role in the up tempo offense will have him attacking the hoop more then trying to become a 3 pt specialist.
Why would anyone be foolish enough to think PHO expects Shaq to run up and down the court? I mean how many fast breaks have more then 3 guys running the lanes? Thats commonsense. This is all about Shaq starting the fast break and running the half court offense through him. Its about balance which Pho had none of. They rose to fame with excellent long range shooting which has diappeared over the seasons. Now on offense they can kill you both ways. We all know they can push the ball but now you have to chose your poison when the game slows down. Which it will in the playoffs. Defend Shaq one on one or double team and watch him pass out to the open man. Which mid range jumpers PHO can nail.
Clearly a no-brainer for Miami. See if Marion fits into Miami and if not you saved the last 2 years of a big contract on a team who is nowhere near playoff caliber let alone championship caliber.
You dont think Shaq will be happy to see Kobe soon??
The reason why Gasol wasnt a better fit then Shaq is cause he plays no defense.
So its a risk but I love to see a guy be different and have some balls. Think outside the box abit.
Thinking Pho will somehow tank in the regular season is laughable. They have more then enough offense tomake up for Marion's absence. Marion is not winning many games and Hill , Barbosa and Diaw even Bell can pick up the slack....
Lets reserve judgement till its all said and done IMO.........I for one am looking forward to seeing Shaq play in Pho. Change can be the fountain of youth....
Ron Artest lands where?...NYK..??
Smokedawg
Eagles Fan
Why stop there? Throw in Barbosa, and we'll give you Carney as well!!
Heres an article from Chris Broussard on ESPN that pretty much sums up what I think about it...
The Shaq deal: Some reasons why
posted: Friday, February 1, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry
My first thought was, "That's ridiculous! There's no way the Suns would trade for Shaq.''
With all due respect to The Diesel, he's just not what he used to be. And he's not worth $40 million over the next two years.
Then I began calling around and speaking with folks in the know. Here's what I was told:
"It's close to a done deal,'' said someone with knowledge of the Suns' thinking.
"I think it's going to happen,'' said someone else with knowledge of the Suns' thinking.
"Why?'' I cried. "I can't see one benefit to adding Shaq.''
Here's what I was told:
First, the Suns don't think they can win it all as currently constructed.
Their lack of big, physical players scares the daylights out of them when they look at a Lakers frontline that features Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom (not to mention Ronny Turiaf).
I was told the Suns got word that Dallas was trying to trade for Shaq (in large part to combat the new-look Lakers' behemoth front line), and that is what set this Phoenix-Miami deal in motion.
Afraid of what a Dallas team that featured Shaq, Dirk and Josh Howard would look like, the Suns have swept in and attempted to steal Shaq from the Mavericks.
I was also told that the locker-room chemistry between Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire had gotten too negative to bear. No fighting, no yelling, just a bad vibe.
"But financially, it seems disastrous,'' I said.
In actuality, it's not that bad. Marion was owed more than $17 million next year, and he would have been foolish to opt out of that deal because no one else could have or would have paid him that much. Add in Marcus Banks' $4.1 million, and the Suns are actually saving money by paying Shaq $20 million.
Banks has two more years after next at almost $10 million total, so adding Shaq would cost the Suns about $10 million in the long run. That still doesn't jibe with owner Robert Sarver's cost-cutting mandate, but it's not as bad as I first thought.
Basketball-wise, the Suns believe the positives are this:
1. Shaq will give them the big, physical presence they sorely lack on both ends of the floor.
2. Shaq will enable Amare Stoudemire to play his true and preferred position of power forward, which will make Amare more effective, possibly increasing his scoring and rebounding numbers.
3. Steve Nash will make Shaq a bigger scorer than he currently is in Miami because of his ability to create easy baskets for the big fella. Plus, the Suns' 3-point shooting ability will open things up for Shaq inside.
4. The Suns can still run with Shaq because you don't need all five players sprinting up court to run a fast break.
The Suns aren't completely sold, though.
I'm told that Amare wants the deal to happen and spoke extensively with Shaq on the telephone Tuesday night.
I'm told that Nash has some apprehension, but he's weighing the pros and cons. I'm told coach Mike D'Antoni has even more apprehension, and that there are questions as to whether he can coach the team in a way that will utilize Shaq's abilities.
I'm told new president Steve Kerr thinks adding Shaq is a great opportunity for the Suns organization.
Personally, I wouldn't make this trade if I were the Suns. While they don't look dominant out West, the truth is that nobody looks dominant out West. They are one of four or five teams with a legitimate chance of winning the conference title.
I would give this core of Stoudemire, Nash and Marion one more shot before blowing it up.
While I understand the notion of Shaq adding a big, physical presence, I don't know that you can count on him to do that at his age (he'll turn 36 on March 6).
First, I think he could get in huge foul trouble because of Nash's inability to contain dribble penetration. And secondly, I don't know that Shaq will even be healthy most of the time.
I do like the idea of Dallas adding Shaq because I don't think they'd rely on him as much. I think he'd be a more effective version of Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop. But I think the Suns would need more out of him than Dallas would.
I think Grant Hill and Boris Diaw could make up for Marion's offense, but defensively, the Suns would miss The Matrix.
I agree that Shaq's presence would make Stoudemire better, and that he would not stop the Suns from running fast breaks. He'd slow down their half-court offense, but with all those shooters around him, he should be more effective.
After speaking with these "folks in the know,'' I can see some pluses to adding Shaq to the Suns.
But I still wouldn't do it.
slayer202
Pretty much a regular
indeed. best lines are the last two
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
marion was posting clsoing to 20-10 the 4 seasons prior to nash's arrival. I don't understand why people discount how good he is.
also, I can't even imagine how happy Riles was when teams started pursuing shaq. that must have been surreal as fuck. teams competing for a guy that makes 20 mil a year and can't play half the season. too funny.
also, I can't even imagine how happy Riles was when teams started pursuing shaq. that must have been surreal as fuck. teams competing for a guy that makes 20 mil a year and can't play half the season. too funny.
redbearde
Pretty much a regular
wish I could see the look on his face when the calls started coming in....
Great article Smoke and I think it shows it makes a ton of sense now if Shaq is healthy enough. Obviously the deal grew from Gasol going to LAL and rumors of him being shipped to Dallas. So good for Kerr for stepping up and trying to make something happen.
Shaq at 70 % is still better then most of the centers in the game. He has been hurt and playing with a garbage team doesnt help. He is no longer the Shaq who can take a team and carry them on his shoulders. Which is what Miami needed and Pho doesnt. This in turn wil make Shaq better and more productive. If he can get healthy being in a playoff race surrounded with tons of talent will in my mind give him new life( as will another shot at Kobe) . Almost 36 is aging but not that old even for a 7 footer with some excess pounds. Look at the 1st two games Shaq played back from his injury absence...24 and 10 then 20 and 11 when he got alot of touches. Simple reason why his numbers are down is because his shot attempts are at LOWS 10 per game!! His shooting % is the same 58% it has always been so where is the decline?? If you make 5.8 of your 10 shots you can only avg 11.6 ppg! Its not rocket science folks. He played terrible in Dec due to nagging injuries , poor team play and limited opportunities...see the difference...
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left height=18>Situation</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right height=18>G</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right height=18>Min </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>M</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>M</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>M</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Off</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Def</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Tot</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Ast</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>TO</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Stl</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Blk</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>PF</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>PPG</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD class=yspscores align=left> November</TD><TD class=yspscores>15</TD><TD class=yspscores>29:06 </TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>6.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>11.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>61.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>52.1</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>7.7</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.1</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.4</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.7</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>16.3</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD class=yspscores align=left> December</TD><TD class=yspscores>13</TD><TD class=yspscores>27:18 </TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>8.2</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>55.7</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.2</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>5.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>40.6</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.2</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>8.1</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.6</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>11.2</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD class=yspscores align=left> January</TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD class=yspscores>30:18 </TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>6.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>11.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>53.2</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>6.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>58.3</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>7.8</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>16.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I'll tell you why I discount how good Marion is offensively. What does he do with the ball on offense that scares you?? Personally nothing with his unorthodox jumpers...he is athletic which is a great plus in a fast paced game. He avg 20 pts a game because he was taking 17 attempts per...not all that special especially at 45% clip. Marions FG's went from 45 to 52% with Nash on the team big difference in production.
Not sure how much defense will be lost with Amare at the 4 and Shaq at the 5. Marion as good as a defender he was with his wing span was still just 6'7. What Shawn Marion is a good , solid basketball player and a great fantasy basketball player. So whats better Marion and Amare or Amare and Shaq?
The contracts tell you why it was good business along with the fact Shaq brings more fan interest and sells more then Shawn marion ever will. Marion thinks he is better then he is and I wont be suprised when it shows in Miami with there lack of talent.
I really think this trade works on so many levels including fan interest in Pho. As long as people dont listen to the NO-Nothing media outlets..and as long as Shaq is a healthy as when the season started.....
I am rooting for this !!
Shaq at 70 % is still better then most of the centers in the game. He has been hurt and playing with a garbage team doesnt help. He is no longer the Shaq who can take a team and carry them on his shoulders. Which is what Miami needed and Pho doesnt. This in turn wil make Shaq better and more productive. If he can get healthy being in a playoff race surrounded with tons of talent will in my mind give him new life( as will another shot at Kobe) . Almost 36 is aging but not that old even for a 7 footer with some excess pounds. Look at the 1st two games Shaq played back from his injury absence...24 and 10 then 20 and 11 when he got alot of touches. Simple reason why his numbers are down is because his shot attempts are at LOWS 10 per game!! His shooting % is the same 58% it has always been so where is the decline?? If you make 5.8 of your 10 shots you can only avg 11.6 ppg! Its not rocket science folks. He played terrible in Dec due to nagging injuries , poor team play and limited opportunities...see the difference...
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left height=18>Situation</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right height=18>G</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right height=18>Min </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>M</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>M</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>M</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Off</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Def</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Tot</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Ast</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>TO</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Stl</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Blk</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>PF</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>PPG</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD class=yspscores align=left> November</TD><TD class=yspscores>15</TD><TD class=yspscores>29:06 </TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>6.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>11.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>61.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>52.1</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>7.7</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.1</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.4</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.7</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>16.3</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD class=yspscores align=left> December</TD><TD class=yspscores>13</TD><TD class=yspscores>27:18 </TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>8.2</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>55.7</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>2.2</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>5.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>40.6</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.2</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.9</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>8.1</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.6</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>11.2</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD class=yspscores align=left> January</TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD class=yspscores>30:18 </TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>6.3</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>11.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>53.2</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>6.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>58.3</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.8</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>7.8</TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>1.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>4.5</TD><TD class=yspscores height=16>16.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I'll tell you why I discount how good Marion is offensively. What does he do with the ball on offense that scares you?? Personally nothing with his unorthodox jumpers...he is athletic which is a great plus in a fast paced game. He avg 20 pts a game because he was taking 17 attempts per...not all that special especially at 45% clip. Marions FG's went from 45 to 52% with Nash on the team big difference in production.
Not sure how much defense will be lost with Amare at the 4 and Shaq at the 5. Marion as good as a defender he was with his wing span was still just 6'7. What Shawn Marion is a good , solid basketball player and a great fantasy basketball player. So whats better Marion and Amare or Amare and Shaq?
The contracts tell you why it was good business along with the fact Shaq brings more fan interest and sells more then Shawn marion ever will. Marion thinks he is better then he is and I wont be suprised when it shows in Miami with there lack of talent.
I really think this trade works on so many levels including fan interest in Pho. As long as people dont listen to the NO-Nothing media outlets..and as long as Shaq is a healthy as when the season started.....
I am rooting for this !!
cogenman
Raider Nation for Life
Is this trade really worth it considering Shaq will be makine $20 million a year the next 2 years? The guy's body is breaking down as he's getting older. If they do it and they don't win the championship this year, it's a disaster because he ain't getting any younger and he sure ain't worth no $20 million a year next year. In his prime, yes, now, hell no!
Goopster24
Pretty much a regular
Um, thanks! I was referring to the news reports that were coming YESTERDAY and last night.
This move might be "stupid as fuck" in your humble opinion but others might disagree. That's the fun of sports man. There are plenty of "sane" people on both sides of the argument.
Goopster24
Pretty much a regular
They were saying that Kerr might be planning on a future buyout, especially if the Suns win the trophy.
Not sure of Marion's contract . It seems next year is option at 17 million if I read correctly. Which some claim he wont walk away from. While Banks is making 4.5 this year and 10million over the next 2 years.
So this year and next the Suns would actually save a million dollars doing this deal if Marion would have stayed. Then its only the 3rd year which is for 20 million but Banks makes 5 million so its 15 million in the last year that is the difference. Which Shaq has said he may retire before that or he still will have trade value and could get shipped elsewhere.
I dont think Shaq in his priime would get traded. They would just wait till next year where as now next year isnt going to be a better shaq...
Money should never really be an issue with mega star deals IMO. You dont think Shaq makes 20 million bucks for the franchise as soon as he puts on that SUNS jersey?? There should be more fan interest on every level. To bad nobody taught the Twins ownership about that or they may have realized whatever raise they gave Johan Santana would ultimately pay itself off cause of who they are ...
If it was just money then they still should do it if they felt like they were a
better team. Nash and Hill arent getting any younger either.....
I think its a good gamble in the wide open WEST...
He would get a huge portion...like when these guys get bought out cause there no longer wanted...he would still probably get like 12 million and never have to show up..
esco
Pretty much a regular
"suns gotta be the favorites to win it all now. this improves their frontline, halfcourt set, and interior d."
Seriously? Have people even watched Shaq this year??? He is in foul trouble half the time. He has never been slower. His footwork seems to have disappeared in the post. He can't play every week. I love the guy, but dude looks baaaaad...
Seriously? Have people even watched Shaq this year??? He is in foul trouble half the time. He has never been slower. His footwork seems to have disappeared in the post. He can't play every week. I love the guy, but dude looks baaaaad...
Don't like the trade at all. To me this kind of makes the Suns look desperate because of what the Lakers did. Shaq hasn't done much the last couple of years. Is Shaq going to be ok with not being 1st, 2nd, even the 3rd option. Suns are bringing him in to play defense and rebound and he hasn't shown that he wants to do that every nite.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Suns will regret trading for O'Neal
</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><STYLE type=text/css> td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; }</STYLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspwidearticlebody>By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
February 6, 2008 <TABLE id=ysparticleheadshot cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 align=left border=0 hspace="5" vspace="5"><TBODY><TR><TD class=ysptblbdr2><TABLE class=yspwhitebg cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE class=yspwhitebg cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>
</TD></TR><TR><TD>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>As long as the Phoenix Suns linger as that championship-free franchise in the desert, they will continue to regret making a trade for a broken-down Shaquille O'Neal. Between going for it, and sheer desperation, there is the finest line. What happened to believing in Mike D'Antoni's system? What happened to believing speed and finesse could deliver a championship?
In every way, this trade is an indictment of these D'Antoni glory years with the Suns. If Suns president Steve Kerr is thrusting Shaq onto his coach, he never bought into his coach's system. If D'Antoni is going along with this, you have to wonder whether he ever truly believed his way could win a title.
If he's willing to trade Shawn Marion for this Shaq, the architect of this system has surrendered.
<TABLE cellPadding=1 align=left border=0 hspace="10" vspace="5"><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE class=ad_slug_table cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>
<IFRAME marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="http://ad.yieldmanager.com/st?ad_type=iframe&ad_size=300x250&entity=24276&site_code=sports§ion_code=12054680&cb=1202347663921624&ycg=m&yyob=1988&pub_redirect_unencoded=1&pub_redirect=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=150du25qg/M=619213.12054680.12502284.1414694/D=sports/S=97684947:LREC/_ylt=AgzrRmdCQZ5YYDFItWSdsSvTjdIF/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1202354863/L=W3MRtEWTWesPpvkSR4quYgB.fe9K.keqXo8ADZRF/B=2W2FiNGDJGo-/J=1202347663921624/A=4940782/R=0/*" frameBorder=0 width=300 scrolling=no height=250></IFRAME>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SCRIPT language=javascript>if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();window.yzq_d['2W2FiNGDJGo-']='&U=13b7u2rsd%2fN%3d2W2FiNGDJGo-%2fC%3d619213.12054680.12502284.1414694%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4940782';</SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT>
</NOSCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
Still, there was one Eastern Conference GM who said, "I give Phoenix credit for rolling the dice and trying to make this happen."
This is beyond a roll of the dice. Shaq has to pass a physical in Phoenix on Wednesday, a source told Yahoo! Sports, and you wonder if the Suns elders might come to their senses and make sure that O'Neal "fails" the examination.
For reasons that are clear, Shaq doesn't fit offensively with the Suns. He can't run anymore. He can't shoot. He still was groaning about his touches in Miami, and you think he's going to accept life as the fourth, maybe fifth, option at times? There's little evidence to suggest Shaq simply will embrace the role of defensive stopper that the Suns so desperately want of him.
Do you think Shaq will be content with rebounding and throwing outlets to start fast breaks, never to be rewarded on the offensive end? Alonzo Mourning did it late in his Miami career, but Shaq never has come to terms with his basketball mortality. He still thinks he's the Diesel, and God bless him for it. It makes him bigger than life. Yet it doesn't make him right for the Suns.
Most of all, Shaq can't stay on the floor. He is broken down. He will be 36 next month. He always is hurt now. He has been meeting constantly with doctors this season, MRI after MRI on his hip. His knees still struggle to carry those 340 pounds on his bones. Shaq's spirit was built to endure forever, but his body is a different story.
The Suns are hoping a chance to play for a contender will motivate him to do his rehab and keep his weight down, but even that is wishful thinking. Listen, Shaq had one title left in him. Pat Riley squeezed it out of him. It's over. He doesn't bring Grant Hill's desperation to be a champion. Shaq has been there, done that four times, and you wonder how much that lure even drives him anymore.
Sure, Shaq would've made more sense for the Dallas Mavericks' half-court style, for an owner, Mark Cuban, who doesn't dump good players and future draft picks to stay out of the luxury tax. Yet that's all the Suns have done for the past year under owner Robert Sarver. If the Suns are willing to pay the $40 million owed Shaq over the next two years, they never should have traded tough-guy Kurt Thomas to the Seattle SuperSonics. He always did a good job defending Tim Duncan. He rebounded. He made shots. Most of all, he stayed on the floor.
Ultimately, Shaq can't do that anymore. How in the world is he going to make it to the end of June, through a long playoff run? Odds are he'll be wearing a suit on the bench come playoff time for the Suns.
So yes, Marion wants out of Phoenix. What does it tell you about him that he would welcome a trade to the worst team in the NBA? He wants a max-contract extension, and the Suns are unwilling to pay him. Here in Phoenix, he has a chance to win a championship, but apparently he is thrilled with taking a trip to lottery-land with the Miami Heat. Maybe Marion will opt out of the $17.8 million owed him in 2008-09 and become a free agent. Maybe Pat Riley re-signs him. Either way, Marion ought to call the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson and see how life is with a loser.
Nevertheless, Kerr has played for too many championship teams to even understand a player who would want out of a system and away from a point guard who made him a star. To trade Marion is plausible for a lot reasons, but for Shaq? Now? Without the suspensions against the Spurs in the conference semifinals, the Suns were sure they could've beaten San Antonio. Maybe they were right, but trying to change themselves because the Lakers grabbed Pau Gasol, because they fear the Mavericks will get Jason Kidd, is the wrong way.
Yes, the Suns believe they need strength in the middle. They need a defensive presence. They wanted Amare Stoudemire to move to power forward, where the league's centers no longer can destroy him on a nightly basis. Still, this trade doesn't get the Suns closer to a title, just closer to heartbreak.
"Shaq doesn't fit anything they do," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said Tuesday night. "What makes the Suns great in the half-court is that they pick and roll everybody, all of those guys can shoot it. They have everyone playing a position bigger than they are, like Amare at the five, and Matrix at the four. … And now, you put Shaq out there, and I just don't see how it works.
"I guess he clogs the middle for them on defense, but you are stripping the identity of this team with him. Plus, what does he have left right now?"
Since Kerr took the Suns job in June, he has considered so many different trade scenarios for Marion. He talked with Minnesota and Boston about a three-way deal that would've brought the Suns Kevin Garnett. He talked with Utah about Andrei Kirilenko. To settle on Shaq seems just that – settling.
All along, the Suns believed they had a system that made teams change for them, that ultimately lived and died with the genius of Steve Nash and the go-go teammates. Suddenly, the Suns look so desperate, so unsure of themselves. Maybe this is Kerr and D'Antoni together; maybe this is the president going it alone.
Nevertheless, the message is unmistakable: When it comes to believing they could win a championship with the coach's style, this was a complete cut-and-run on Super Tuesday.
Somehow, this doesn't feel like the Suns are going for it.
It feels like unconditional surrender.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><STYLE type=text/css> td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; }</STYLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspwidearticlebody>By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
February 6, 2008 <TABLE id=ysparticleheadshot cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 align=left border=0 hspace="5" vspace="5"><TBODY><TR><TD class=ysptblbdr2><TABLE class=yspwhitebg cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE class=yspwhitebg cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>
</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>As long as the Phoenix Suns linger as that championship-free franchise in the desert, they will continue to regret making a trade for a broken-down Shaquille O'Neal. Between going for it, and sheer desperation, there is the finest line. What happened to believing in Mike D'Antoni's system? What happened to believing speed and finesse could deliver a championship? In every way, this trade is an indictment of these D'Antoni glory years with the Suns. If Suns president Steve Kerr is thrusting Shaq onto his coach, he never bought into his coach's system. If D'Antoni is going along with this, you have to wonder whether he ever truly believed his way could win a title.
If he's willing to trade Shawn Marion for this Shaq, the architect of this system has surrendered.
<TABLE cellPadding=1 align=left border=0 hspace="10" vspace="5"><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE class=ad_slug_table cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>
<IFRAME marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="http://ad.yieldmanager.com/st?ad_type=iframe&ad_size=300x250&entity=24276&site_code=sports§ion_code=12054680&cb=1202347663921624&ycg=m&yyob=1988&pub_redirect_unencoded=1&pub_redirect=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=150du25qg/M=619213.12054680.12502284.1414694/D=sports/S=97684947:LREC/_ylt=AgzrRmdCQZ5YYDFItWSdsSvTjdIF/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1202354863/L=W3MRtEWTWesPpvkSR4quYgB.fe9K.keqXo8ADZRF/B=2W2FiNGDJGo-/J=1202347663921624/A=4940782/R=0/*" frameBorder=0 width=300 scrolling=no height=250></IFRAME>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SCRIPT language=javascript>if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();window.yzq_d['2W2FiNGDJGo-']='&U=13b7u2rsd%2fN%3d2W2FiNGDJGo-%2fC%3d619213.12054680.12502284.1414694%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4940782';</SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT>
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
Still, there was one Eastern Conference GM who said, "I give Phoenix credit for rolling the dice and trying to make this happen."
This is beyond a roll of the dice. Shaq has to pass a physical in Phoenix on Wednesday, a source told Yahoo! Sports, and you wonder if the Suns elders might come to their senses and make sure that O'Neal "fails" the examination.
For reasons that are clear, Shaq doesn't fit offensively with the Suns. He can't run anymore. He can't shoot. He still was groaning about his touches in Miami, and you think he's going to accept life as the fourth, maybe fifth, option at times? There's little evidence to suggest Shaq simply will embrace the role of defensive stopper that the Suns so desperately want of him.
Do you think Shaq will be content with rebounding and throwing outlets to start fast breaks, never to be rewarded on the offensive end? Alonzo Mourning did it late in his Miami career, but Shaq never has come to terms with his basketball mortality. He still thinks he's the Diesel, and God bless him for it. It makes him bigger than life. Yet it doesn't make him right for the Suns.
Most of all, Shaq can't stay on the floor. He is broken down. He will be 36 next month. He always is hurt now. He has been meeting constantly with doctors this season, MRI after MRI on his hip. His knees still struggle to carry those 340 pounds on his bones. Shaq's spirit was built to endure forever, but his body is a different story.
The Suns are hoping a chance to play for a contender will motivate him to do his rehab and keep his weight down, but even that is wishful thinking. Listen, Shaq had one title left in him. Pat Riley squeezed it out of him. It's over. He doesn't bring Grant Hill's desperation to be a champion. Shaq has been there, done that four times, and you wonder how much that lure even drives him anymore.
Sure, Shaq would've made more sense for the Dallas Mavericks' half-court style, for an owner, Mark Cuban, who doesn't dump good players and future draft picks to stay out of the luxury tax. Yet that's all the Suns have done for the past year under owner Robert Sarver. If the Suns are willing to pay the $40 million owed Shaq over the next two years, they never should have traded tough-guy Kurt Thomas to the Seattle SuperSonics. He always did a good job defending Tim Duncan. He rebounded. He made shots. Most of all, he stayed on the floor.
Ultimately, Shaq can't do that anymore. How in the world is he going to make it to the end of June, through a long playoff run? Odds are he'll be wearing a suit on the bench come playoff time for the Suns.
So yes, Marion wants out of Phoenix. What does it tell you about him that he would welcome a trade to the worst team in the NBA? He wants a max-contract extension, and the Suns are unwilling to pay him. Here in Phoenix, he has a chance to win a championship, but apparently he is thrilled with taking a trip to lottery-land with the Miami Heat. Maybe Marion will opt out of the $17.8 million owed him in 2008-09 and become a free agent. Maybe Pat Riley re-signs him. Either way, Marion ought to call the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson and see how life is with a loser.
Nevertheless, Kerr has played for too many championship teams to even understand a player who would want out of a system and away from a point guard who made him a star. To trade Marion is plausible for a lot reasons, but for Shaq? Now? Without the suspensions against the Spurs in the conference semifinals, the Suns were sure they could've beaten San Antonio. Maybe they were right, but trying to change themselves because the Lakers grabbed Pau Gasol, because they fear the Mavericks will get Jason Kidd, is the wrong way.
Yes, the Suns believe they need strength in the middle. They need a defensive presence. They wanted Amare Stoudemire to move to power forward, where the league's centers no longer can destroy him on a nightly basis. Still, this trade doesn't get the Suns closer to a title, just closer to heartbreak.
"Shaq doesn't fit anything they do," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said Tuesday night. "What makes the Suns great in the half-court is that they pick and roll everybody, all of those guys can shoot it. They have everyone playing a position bigger than they are, like Amare at the five, and Matrix at the four. … And now, you put Shaq out there, and I just don't see how it works.
"I guess he clogs the middle for them on defense, but you are stripping the identity of this team with him. Plus, what does he have left right now?"
Since Kerr took the Suns job in June, he has considered so many different trade scenarios for Marion. He talked with Minnesota and Boston about a three-way deal that would've brought the Suns Kevin Garnett. He talked with Utah about Andrei Kirilenko. To settle on Shaq seems just that – settling.
All along, the Suns believed they had a system that made teams change for them, that ultimately lived and died with the genius of Steve Nash and the go-go teammates. Suddenly, the Suns look so desperate, so unsure of themselves. Maybe this is Kerr and D'Antoni together; maybe this is the president going it alone.
Nevertheless, the message is unmistakable: When it comes to believing they could win a championship with the coach's style, this was a complete cut-and-run on Super Tuesday.
Somehow, this doesn't feel like the Suns are going for it.
It feels like unconditional surrender.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
slayer202
Pretty much a regular
was just gonna post that bet crimes
"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
F
FRITO
Guest
GREAT POST (sportsnut), i agree with every word you said completely !
Anyone see the press conference today? I thought it was Shaq at his finest.
Thanks Frito. I guess time will tell .
As for the rest last people I ever listen to is sportswriters. Most of them are just a bunch of wannabe's who never played sports but think they know everything about the game. After seing Shaq's enthusiam and excitement I think it will work beautifully in pho for them.
Shaq has no problem not being option 1 or 2 on offense. Like he said he is all about rings #5 and 6. He deferred to Wade in Miami along time ago. All he talked about today was how one's legacy is about making your teammates better not padding your stat columns.
As far as Shaqs play the injuries have played a role the past 2 years but didnt Grant Hill shake the injury bug ? He did look bad at times but again when your team is terrible and the surrounding talent is terrible and your an aging superstar it tends to reflect on you rather then the actual situation. Meaning it was Shaq regressing as much as it was just having no help and playing with doubt in his mind..(IMO at least)
We see it in baseball all the time. Playoff teams ading veterans for the stretc run who sometimes have career year type ends to there season. So agains what's all the fuss? Shaq makes alot of money so did Marion? I'll take my chances that today Shaq still makes a talented team better while Marion might regress to his 45% FG shooting days that were common place before Nash arrived. for all the talk about Marion being underrated I think it one week he went to extremely overrated....time will tell....Miami nice duo with Wade and matrix but no PGs...
Thanks Frito. I guess time will tell .
As for the rest last people I ever listen to is sportswriters. Most of them are just a bunch of wannabe's who never played sports but think they know everything about the game. After seing Shaq's enthusiam and excitement I think it will work beautifully in pho for them.
Shaq has no problem not being option 1 or 2 on offense. Like he said he is all about rings #5 and 6. He deferred to Wade in Miami along time ago. All he talked about today was how one's legacy is about making your teammates better not padding your stat columns.
As far as Shaqs play the injuries have played a role the past 2 years but didnt Grant Hill shake the injury bug ? He did look bad at times but again when your team is terrible and the surrounding talent is terrible and your an aging superstar it tends to reflect on you rather then the actual situation. Meaning it was Shaq regressing as much as it was just having no help and playing with doubt in his mind..(IMO at least)
We see it in baseball all the time. Playoff teams ading veterans for the stretc run who sometimes have career year type ends to there season. So agains what's all the fuss? Shaq makes alot of money so did Marion? I'll take my chances that today Shaq still makes a talented team better while Marion might regress to his 45% FG shooting days that were common place before Nash arrived. for all the talk about Marion being underrated I think it one week he went to extremely overrated....time will tell....Miami nice duo with Wade and matrix but no PGs...
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
smush parker ftw.
nut, i see your perspective but I just don't think shaq will be able to get it done.
it won't surprise me if Skinner plays crunch time minutes cuz he's more effective, similar to how mourning played in the 4th quarter vs. the Mavs in the 06 finals.
as a Laker fan, I couldn't be happier with this trade. There's nowhere I'd rather see see shaq fail than in phoenix. its nice that he's relevant again. the heat were so bad, shaq's regression was getting overlooked. Now it gets spotlighted right next to the Lakers rise. Fucking love it.
nut, i see your perspective but I just don't think shaq will be able to get it done.
it won't surprise me if Skinner plays crunch time minutes cuz he's more effective, similar to how mourning played in the 4th quarter vs. the Mavs in the 06 finals.
as a Laker fan, I couldn't be happier with this trade. There's nowhere I'd rather see see shaq fail than in phoenix. its nice that he's relevant again. the heat were so bad, shaq's regression was getting overlooked. Now it gets spotlighted right next to the Lakers rise. Fucking love it.
I think regardless of what we feel it at least brings excitement to the NBA West. I for one cant wait to see Shaq play with these guys. I think everything about Pho will be better.
I wouldnt really compare Mourning a very good defensive player to Brian Skinner. I think the world will be shocked when its all said and done. Though its all about Shaq's health and lets be real here the Suns staff isnt approving the deal if there are major concerns.
I think you will be suprised at Shaqs "regression". The game is extremely mental and when your surrounded by shit your game will go to shit no matter who you are. For a plethra of reasons. He basically said it will be nice to pass the ball out to guys who can actually shot ( did it a roundabout way) That was Wash major flaw with luring MJ out of retirement cause they were still to dependent on him. In a way the injuries are a blessing because they have reduced the ware on Shaqs body the past few years...if regression is taking less shots and hitting 59% then so be it...the only real regression one can prove is his diminished role in Miami's diminishing offense...less FGA tends to lead to lower PPG...I would be concerned if he was hitting 48% on 15 FGA rather 60% on 10 FGA...
As a Shaq fan I would love to see Kobe vs Shaq one more time...
Shaquille O'Neal says he will have no problem running with the Suns and that he's going to make people "eat their words."
"The last couple of years I was in a system that we really didn't run, so you automatically think I can't run," he said. "But I love to run, especially if I'm playing with a great guy like Steve Nash. I look forward to making people eat their words, I really do." The masses are in disagreement as to whether Shaq will thrive in Phoenix or not, but the bottom line is that he's still an injury waiting to happen and will kill your free throw percentage.
It would be great to see Shaq trainling the break and getting the ball wide open down the lane and just throw it down on someone like it was 95 of all over again!
I just think its great to have some freshness for once.
:cheers:
I wouldnt really compare Mourning a very good defensive player to Brian Skinner. I think the world will be shocked when its all said and done. Though its all about Shaq's health and lets be real here the Suns staff isnt approving the deal if there are major concerns.
I think you will be suprised at Shaqs "regression". The game is extremely mental and when your surrounded by shit your game will go to shit no matter who you are. For a plethra of reasons. He basically said it will be nice to pass the ball out to guys who can actually shot ( did it a roundabout way) That was Wash major flaw with luring MJ out of retirement cause they were still to dependent on him. In a way the injuries are a blessing because they have reduced the ware on Shaqs body the past few years...if regression is taking less shots and hitting 59% then so be it...the only real regression one can prove is his diminished role in Miami's diminishing offense...less FGA tends to lead to lower PPG...I would be concerned if he was hitting 48% on 15 FGA rather 60% on 10 FGA...
As a Shaq fan I would love to see Kobe vs Shaq one more time...
Shaquille O'Neal says he will have no problem running with the Suns and that he's going to make people "eat their words."
"The last couple of years I was in a system that we really didn't run, so you automatically think I can't run," he said. "But I love to run, especially if I'm playing with a great guy like Steve Nash. I look forward to making people eat their words, I really do." The masses are in disagreement as to whether Shaq will thrive in Phoenix or not, but the bottom line is that he's still an injury waiting to happen and will kill your free throw percentage.
It would be great to see Shaq trainling the break and getting the ball wide open down the lane and just throw it down on someone like it was 95 of all over again!
I just think its great to have some freshness for once.
:cheers:
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
Shaq arrives, and Suns will never be the same
Phoenix better be ready to change its approach.
February 7 2008
PHOENIX -- The Diesel cometh, once more.
As always, you could almost feel the ground tremble as Shaquille O'Neal changed teams Wednesday, becoming a Phoenix Sun, however improbable that was.
<script language="JavaScript" src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/trb.latimes/sports/basketball/nba/lakers;tk=10081;tk=10117;tk=10490;tk=11587;tk=12375;ptype=s;slug=la-sp-heisler7feb07;rg=r;zc=90265;ref=latimescom;pos=1;sz=300x250;tile=5;ord=24073490?" type="text/javascript"></script><!-- Template Id = 1 Template Name = Banner Creative (Flash) --> <!-- Copyright 2002 DoubleClick Inc., All rights reserved. --><script src="http://m1.2mdn.net/879366/flashwrite_1_2.js"></script> <object classid="clsid
27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" id="FLASH_AD" height="250" width="300">
<embed src="http://m1.2mdn.net/1219946/cspeed_300x250_v1.swf?clickTag=http%3A//ad.doubleclick.net/click%253Bh%3Dv8/3660/3/0/%252a/p%253B179286026%253B0-0%253B0%253B12927027%253B4307-300/250%253B24523922/24541775/1%253B%253B%257Eokv%253D%253Btk%253D10081%253Btk%253D10117%253Btk%253D10490%253Btk%253D11587%253Btk%253D12375%253Bptype%253Ds%253Bslug%253Dla-sp-heisler7feb07%253Brg%253Dr%253Bzc%253D90265%253Bref%253Dlatimescom%253Bpos%253D1%253Bsz%253D300x250%253Btile%253D5%253B%257Esscs%253D%253fhttp%3A//latimes.com/californiaspeedway" quality="high" wmode="opaque" swliveconnect="TRUE" bgcolor="#" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="never" height="250" width="300"></object><noscript>
</noscript> <noscript>
</noscript>
Not that it matched O'Neal's reception in Orlando in 1992 when he got off the plane wearing Mickey Mouse ears, or Los Angeles in 1996 when Lakers general manager Jerry West compared signing him to the birth of his children, or Miami in 2004 when Shaq squirted the crowd at a rally with a water gun.
Here, it was more like stunned silence.
As the story broke Tuesday, the Arizona Republic website put up two features side by side.
Asked blogger Sportsboy: "A joke right?"
Replied beat writer Paul Coro: "No joke."
Then came posts from readers:
RealFan08: " . . . Don't do it, this sounds horrible."
SunDevilDanielle: "Terrible idea. No one here wants Shaq. It will mess up the whole dynamic."
Jfluffy13: "Please no."
Sorry. H-e-r-e's Shaq!
"The question mark as Steve [Kerr, Suns' GM} said, does he have any gas left in the tank?" said Coach Mike D'Antoni at a news conference before Wednesday's game.
"You guys [press] have debated it for 24 hours and you've come up with 'No.' And I think you're wrong. . . . I do find it kind of funny. First of all, we can't win without a big man. Then we can't win with a big man."
Of course, this big man is 35 with the mileage to prove it, which isn't ideal for a team that spreads the floor and plays fast, or used to.
Here's the story as the Suns put it out, officially and unofficially:
All their top people agreed.
Everyone was fed up with Shawn Marion's whining and his recent inclination to take nights off.
They all think this gives them a better chance against all the big Western Conference teams in the playoffs.
Here are other possibilities:
The Suns flipped out when the hated Lakers got Pau Gasol.
They jumped at the deal because they heard Dallas owner Mark Cuban was also interested.
Suns owner Robert Sarver isn't just the one who learned that O'Neal was available from Miami owner Micky Arison, Sarver is the one whose enthusiasm rammed it through.
It wasn't a leap of faith for Kerr, the new GM whose San Antonio background left him skeptical of the Suns' running, gunning style.
Wednesday night Kerr said the Suns had "a puncher's chance" to win in the playoffs, "maybe if things went right, if we got the right matchup."
However, it was a leap of faith for D'Antoni, who put in the NBA's most entertaining offense, who had to defend it for as long as he ran it against the conventional wisdom that they couldn't win a title.
"I'd disagree a little," said D'Antoni of Kerr's characterization of the Suns as longshots. "I thought we would win anyway."
In fact, none of D'Antoni's Suns teams was ever defeated when it was at full strength:
In 2005, the Suns fell to San Antonio in the West finals after losing the first two at home with Joe Johnson out.
In 2006, they made the West finals again without Amare Stoudemire but fell to Dallas.
Then came last spring's nightmare when they tied their second-round series with the Spurs, winning Game 4 in San Antonio, only to see Stoudemire and Boris Diaw suspended for Game 5 for leaving the bench during a fight.
Nor had they gone south this season even with all the mewing from Marion and Stoudemire, leading the West, having won eight of their last 10 games.
For the record, D'Antoni says he's wholeheartedly for this, even if it means changing their style on the fly.
"You're from L.A.," D'Antoni said to a Los Angeles writer. "Didn't they [Lakers] have Showtime and they had a 40-year-old center running down behind everybody?"
That was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who played until he was 42, but the Suns better not hold their breath until they become Showtime II.
The Lakers' nucleus, which included Hall of Famers Magic Johnson and James Worthy, grew up around Abdul-Jabbar as opposed to having him dropped in their midst, making it natural for them to take over as the years went by and Kareem slowed down.
Most of all, even at 42, Abdul-Jabbar could do one thing as well as anyone in the game -- get a good shot and make it in crunch time.
O'Neal can still get 15 points and eight rebounds. He will improve the Suns' defense just by standing in the lane. That's all useful but not the same thing.
He won't talk until his news conference today, but he was introduced at Wednesday's game against New Orleans and everyone went wild.
Showman that he is, he pointed to his ring finger and everyone went wilder.
One thing is for sure, they're going to have a lot of fun for a week or so.
By then, O'Neal is expected to start playing. They'll have to wait to see how that goes.
mark.heisler@latimes.com
Phoenix better be ready to change its approach.
February 7 2008
PHOENIX -- The Diesel cometh, once more.
As always, you could almost feel the ground tremble as Shaquille O'Neal changed teams Wednesday, becoming a Phoenix Sun, however improbable that was.
<script language="JavaScript" src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/trb.latimes/sports/basketball/nba/lakers;tk=10081;tk=10117;tk=10490;tk=11587;tk=12375;ptype=s;slug=la-sp-heisler7feb07;rg=r;zc=90265;ref=latimescom;pos=1;sz=300x250;tile=5;ord=24073490?" type="text/javascript"></script><!-- Template Id = 1 Template Name = Banner Creative (Flash) --> <!-- Copyright 2002 DoubleClick Inc., All rights reserved. --><script src="http://m1.2mdn.net/879366/flashwrite_1_2.js"></script> <object classid="clsid
27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" id="FLASH_AD" height="250" width="300"><embed src="http://m1.2mdn.net/1219946/cspeed_300x250_v1.swf?clickTag=http%3A//ad.doubleclick.net/click%253Bh%3Dv8/3660/3/0/%252a/p%253B179286026%253B0-0%253B0%253B12927027%253B4307-300/250%253B24523922/24541775/1%253B%253B%257Eokv%253D%253Btk%253D10081%253Btk%253D10117%253Btk%253D10490%253Btk%253D11587%253Btk%253D12375%253Bptype%253Ds%253Bslug%253Dla-sp-heisler7feb07%253Brg%253Dr%253Bzc%253D90265%253Bref%253Dlatimescom%253Bpos%253D1%253Bsz%253D300x250%253Btile%253D5%253B%257Esscs%253D%253fhttp%3A//latimes.com/californiaspeedway" quality="high" wmode="opaque" swliveconnect="TRUE" bgcolor="#" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="never" height="250" width="300"></object><noscript>
Not that it matched O'Neal's reception in Orlando in 1992 when he got off the plane wearing Mickey Mouse ears, or Los Angeles in 1996 when Lakers general manager Jerry West compared signing him to the birth of his children, or Miami in 2004 when Shaq squirted the crowd at a rally with a water gun.
Here, it was more like stunned silence.
As the story broke Tuesday, the Arizona Republic website put up two features side by side.
Asked blogger Sportsboy: "A joke right?"
Replied beat writer Paul Coro: "No joke."
Then came posts from readers:
RealFan08: " . . . Don't do it, this sounds horrible."
SunDevilDanielle: "Terrible idea. No one here wants Shaq. It will mess up the whole dynamic."
Jfluffy13: "Please no."
Sorry. H-e-r-e's Shaq!
"The question mark as Steve [Kerr, Suns' GM} said, does he have any gas left in the tank?" said Coach Mike D'Antoni at a news conference before Wednesday's game.
"You guys [press] have debated it for 24 hours and you've come up with 'No.' And I think you're wrong. . . . I do find it kind of funny. First of all, we can't win without a big man. Then we can't win with a big man."
Of course, this big man is 35 with the mileage to prove it, which isn't ideal for a team that spreads the floor and plays fast, or used to.
Here's the story as the Suns put it out, officially and unofficially:
All their top people agreed.
Everyone was fed up with Shawn Marion's whining and his recent inclination to take nights off.
They all think this gives them a better chance against all the big Western Conference teams in the playoffs.
Here are other possibilities:
The Suns flipped out when the hated Lakers got Pau Gasol.
They jumped at the deal because they heard Dallas owner Mark Cuban was also interested.
Suns owner Robert Sarver isn't just the one who learned that O'Neal was available from Miami owner Micky Arison, Sarver is the one whose enthusiasm rammed it through.
It wasn't a leap of faith for Kerr, the new GM whose San Antonio background left him skeptical of the Suns' running, gunning style.
Wednesday night Kerr said the Suns had "a puncher's chance" to win in the playoffs, "maybe if things went right, if we got the right matchup."
However, it was a leap of faith for D'Antoni, who put in the NBA's most entertaining offense, who had to defend it for as long as he ran it against the conventional wisdom that they couldn't win a title.
"I'd disagree a little," said D'Antoni of Kerr's characterization of the Suns as longshots. "I thought we would win anyway."
In fact, none of D'Antoni's Suns teams was ever defeated when it was at full strength:
In 2005, the Suns fell to San Antonio in the West finals after losing the first two at home with Joe Johnson out.
In 2006, they made the West finals again without Amare Stoudemire but fell to Dallas.
Then came last spring's nightmare when they tied their second-round series with the Spurs, winning Game 4 in San Antonio, only to see Stoudemire and Boris Diaw suspended for Game 5 for leaving the bench during a fight.
Nor had they gone south this season even with all the mewing from Marion and Stoudemire, leading the West, having won eight of their last 10 games.
For the record, D'Antoni says he's wholeheartedly for this, even if it means changing their style on the fly.
"You're from L.A.," D'Antoni said to a Los Angeles writer. "Didn't they [Lakers] have Showtime and they had a 40-year-old center running down behind everybody?"
That was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who played until he was 42, but the Suns better not hold their breath until they become Showtime II.
The Lakers' nucleus, which included Hall of Famers Magic Johnson and James Worthy, grew up around Abdul-Jabbar as opposed to having him dropped in their midst, making it natural for them to take over as the years went by and Kareem slowed down.
Most of all, even at 42, Abdul-Jabbar could do one thing as well as anyone in the game -- get a good shot and make it in crunch time.
O'Neal can still get 15 points and eight rebounds. He will improve the Suns' defense just by standing in the lane. That's all useful but not the same thing.
He won't talk until his news conference today, but he was introduced at Wednesday's game against New Orleans and everyone went wild.
Showman that he is, he pointed to his ring finger and everyone went wilder.
One thing is for sure, they're going to have a lot of fun for a week or so.
By then, O'Neal is expected to start playing. They'll have to wait to see how that goes.
mark.heisler@latimes.com
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
probably won't play till after the all -star game. I read its possible that his first game will be vs. the Lakers on the 20th
Similar threads
