Rankings Time

s--k

s--k

Goodbye to Romance College Football
Playoff Committee rankings come out Tuesday. I'd take every single person's opinion here over anything they come up with.

Here is what I have. I don't make PR, I don't pretend to know who would beat who on neutral fields in hypothetical games. I rank on resume. When w-l record is the same, head-to-head results will determine ranking.

1. Georgia 8-0 - best wins at ND 7-1, Miss St 6-3, App St 5-3
2. Alabama 8-0 - best wins Colorado St 6-3, at TA&M 5-3, Fresno St 5-3
3. Notre Dame 7-1 - best wins at Mich St 6-2, NCSt 6-2, USC 6-2, at BC 5-4...loss Georgia 8-0
4. Clemson 7-1 - best wins at VT 7-1, Auburn 6-2, Wake 5-3, at 5-4 LV, 5-4 BC....loss at Syracuse 4-4
5. TCU 7-1 - best wins at OkSt 7-1, at SMU 6-2, WVU 5-3...loss at ISU 6-2
6. Oklahoma 7-1 - best win at Ohio St 7-1
7. Ohio State 7-1 - best wins 7-1 Penn St, 6-2 Army...loss Oklahoma 7-1
8. Iowa State 6-2 - best wins at Oklahoma 7-1, TCU 7-1, Akron 5-4...losses Iowa 4-4, Texas 4-4
9. Wisconsin 8-0 - best win FAU 5-3
10. Miami 7-0 - best wins Toledo 7-1, Georgia Tech 4-3
11. Oklahoma St - best win at WVU 5-3...loss TCU 7-1
12. Penn St 7-1 - best wins Michigan 6-2, at Iowa 5-3...loss at Ohio St 7-1
13. Virginia Tech 6-1 - best wins WVU 5-3, BC 5-4....loss Clemson 7-1
14. UCF 7-0 - best wins Memphis 7-1, at Navy 5-2, FIU 5-2
15. Washington 7-1 - best wins Fresno 5-3, Colorado 5-4...loss at Arizona St 4-4
16. Michigan St 6-2 - best wins at Michigan 6-2, Iowa 5-3, Western Mich 5-3...losses Notre Dame 7-1, at NW 4-4
t-17. Auburn 6-2 - best win Mississippi St 6-2...losses at Clemson 7-1, at LSU 6-2
t-17. LSU 6-2 - best win Auburn 6-2...losses Troy 6-2, at Miss St 6-2
t-17. Mississippi St 6-2 - best wins LSU 6-2, UK 6-2, at TA&M 5-3
20. Arizona 6-2 - best wins Wash St 7-2, Colorado 5-4...losses Houston 4-4, Utah 4-4
21. Washington State 7-2 - best wins USC 6-2, Boise 6-2, at Ore 5-4, 5-4 Colorado...losses at Arz 6-2, at Cal 4-5
22. USC 7-2 - best wins Stanford 6-2, Western Michigan...losses at Wash St 7-2, at Notre Dame 7-1
23. Stanford 6-2 - best win 5-4 Oregon...losses at USC 7-2, at San Diego St 7-2
t24. Kentucky 6-2 - best win at South Carolina 6-2...loses Florida 3-4, at Miss St 6-2
t24. North Carolina St 6-2 - best wins Marshall 6-2, Louisville 5-4...losses SCarolina 6-2, Notre Dame 7-1
t24. South Carolina 6-2 - best win North Carolina St 6-2...loses Kentucky 6-2, TA&M 5-3

I'll stop there. I don't know where to rank Michigan, they have zero wins over anybody with a winning record. I'd probably put Memphis and Toledo somewhere ahead of them.

There are some difficult decisions in there when trying to value quality wins vs quality losses and bad losses. Open to interpretation. I did this in about 30 minutes, I might tweak it given more time.
 
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Resumes are tough in college football...

Schedules are made years in advance sometimes...divisions are unbalanced

Wisconsin may have to win exactly one tough game this year and be in the playoff...


OT, kinda: The coaches poll this week is hilarious.
 
1 UGA
2 BAMA
3 ND
4 CLEMSON
5 OKLOHOMA
6 WISCONSIN

Outside looking in in-order:
tOSU
MIAMI
TCU
OKSt

I can’t endorse two from the same conference (SEC). So,if Bama and UGA meet undefeated UGA is out if they lose. With that comes ND. If UGA wins, ND slides above BAMA and so do a couple 1 loss teams. Too early though.
 
Alabama's best win -- by far -- is over Florida State.

1. Clemson
2. Alabama
3. Georgia
4. Notre Dame
5. Tie -- Oklahoma / OSU / tOSU / Penn St
9. Tie -- TCU / Wisconsin / Auburn
 
My top Five by PR

1. Alabama
2. Ohio State
3. Georgia
4. Notre Dame
5. Clemson

If the playoff were held today, the four teams I would select

1. Alabama
2. Georgia
3. Wisconsin
4. Miami Florida

(Last one out - UCF)
 
M.W. said:
Alabama's best win -- by far -- is over Florida State.

1. Clemson
2. Alabama
3. Georgia
4. Notre Dame
5. Tie -- Oklahoma / OSU / tOSU / Penn St
9. Tie -- TCU / Wisconsin / Auburn
Click to expand...
I see what you did there. You sneaky bastard. The fighting Dabo’s at 1. Really? They will make it. Can’t leave a 1- loss NC out. Can you?
 
As much as I think Clemson is still a top team there is no way you can put them at 1 with a loss to Syracuse. Is Florida St. Bamas best win?

1. UGA - can't knock them for who they have played so far in my eyes because of the manner in which they win. Avg margin victory in SEC is by 30.
2. Bama
3. ND
4. Clemson
5. OSU
6. Miami Obviously still undefeated but the manner in which they have been winning is very ugly. If they were to pull the win against ND obviously this would all shift
 
It makes a lot of sense to say that Alabama's toughest game was Florida St. I didn't include it because I wanted to be consistent, and maybe over simplistic, and just list wins vs teams of winning records.

So alot of people talk about past opponents and they will often say "you have to consider where they were ranked when they played them". Most of the time I call BS, because that team could've been overrated or not as good as we thought they were and therefore should be taken as who they actually are. But it is an inexact science.

Knowing how the game went and with Francois healthy - that FSU was a totally different team. They said all the right things after the Bama game, but clearly they lost their will. Week 1 FSU would be how many pt favorite over the current FSU, 14 pts? More?
 
Week 1 FSU Over Today is more than 14. This team has given up. They needed that win Friday. James and Thomas combined for 28 tackles. Those two players are looking at draft position. The others are waiting for senior day. What else do they have to play for. Pride? Lol.
 
UGA HAS to be Number 1 right?

Considering some will have ND in there, UGA.s best win was AT ND

They HAVE to be Number 1, right?

Bama 2

Ohio ST BETTER NOT be ahead of Oklahoma........right?
 
My sincere hope is that Alabama is #2, but would prefer #3. UGA certainly has the better wins. Though I find it funny that folks have been using their 32 point average MOV in conference play as a sign of their dominance, but have to hear anyone talk about Alabama averaging 40 point MOV in SEC play. Doesn't matter as I know it will all work itself out, just being a sensitive Bammer.

I would argue that Ohio St is a better football team right now than OU, but no way do I discount that H2H loss while they both have the same record. Clemson is the safe pick at #4, put ND at 3 and then some order of UGA/Alabama in the top 2 spots.
 
gps_3 said:
My sincere hope is that Alabama is #2, but would prefer #3. UGA certainly has the better wins. Though I find it funny that folks have been using their 32 point average MOV in conference play as a sign of their dominance, but have to hear anyone talk about Alabama averaging 40 point MOV in SEC play. Doesn't matter as I know it will all work itself out, just being a sensitive Bammer.

I would argue that Ohio St is a better football team right now than OU, but no way do I discount that H2H loss while they both have the same record. Clemson is the safe pick at #4, put ND at 3 and then some order of UGA/Alabama in the top 2 spots.
Click to expand...
basically feel the same as the 2nd paragraph

but i would put UGA there as they have a win AT another top 4 teams place.....has to be that way
 
Also want to add that Kirby Smart is going to have UGA in a spot not seen by my 39 years on this Earth........gonna be pretty OK with him as a coach it seems. The recruits are gonna start a comin and stayin.....and he seems to have a handle on this HC thing

yikes
 
I think there's a good chance Kirby takes UGA to the mountaintop, maybe even this season. Staying there, that is the challenge. But UGA is setup as well as anyone to have an extended run of dominance, now that the school and boosters are willing to pay the money needed to keep up with the other top programs
 
gps_3 said:
I think there's a good chance Kirby takes UGA to the mountaintop, maybe even this season. Staying there, that is the challenge. But UGA is setup as well as anyone to have an extended run of dominance, now that the school and boosters are willing to pay the money needed to keep up with the other top programs
Click to expand...
Especially with the way the East is right now in the SEC they could have a shot of winning that for the foreseeable future.
 
booksbestfriend said:
They got it right. Good for them. Now what teams fade and which relish the opportunity to impress?
Click to expand...

Have to assume SEC gets 1 spot, hopefully just 1. ACC, Big Ten, Big Xll and ND fighting for the other 3 spots. PAC12 would appear to be on outside looking in. I don't like to try and guess that stuff too much. Can't even listen to college football radio shows this time of year because it is all "what if this team" and "what if that team". It's like everyone just wants to jump ahead 5 weeks and skip the beauty and excitement we have each week leading up to the end.
 
B.A.R. said:
13-0 Wisconsin?

I am not saying they are deserving... just wonderin...
Click to expand...
You don't think they are in trouble?

Where the committee had them ranked initially just leads me to that....
Plus I think they could be in real trouble in the Big ten Shikoku game
 
I don't think there will be two teams from one conference. SEC ship is the neutral that decides that one...don't get wrapped up in these early rankings. ACC, SEC will get one and Big 12 likely will too...Winner of big 11 game is likely in as well.
 
twinkie13 said:
You don't think they are in trouble?

Where the committee had them ranked initially just leads me to that....
Plus I think they could be in real trouble in the Big ten Shikoku game[
Click to expand...

Haha. At first I was like, wow, twinkie's calling his shot in the Wisconsin - Ski U Mah (Minnesota) game. I don't know what it means, something the athletics teams use up there.

Wisconsin in trouble? They could lose any or all 3 of their next games and it wouldn't surprise me one bit (Iowa-Mich-at Ski U Mah).
 
I don't want to skip ahead of the games yet to be played but it is inevitable when talking ranks and playoff. The situation I had playing out had me scratching my head.

Alabama v UGA in the SEC title game. Both undefeated teams.

ND if they stay undefeated with only loss as one point loss to UGA.

Clemson or Miami coming out of the ACC.

Wisconsin undefeated and loses in the Title game.

1 loss Washington coming out of the PAC?

Potential 1 loss winner in he big.

So if whisky loses in the title game that conference will likely not see someone in the playoff. Does a 1 loss ND make it in if they win out? Or Miami could beat ND and lose in the ACC championship. If Miami wins out they are obviously in.

1 Bama or uga
2 nd if win out
3 ACC champ?
4 PAC 12 champ if wash, OU or TCU?, second SEC team?

I also agree that the second SEC team feels very unlikely unless some other teams drop games. I got down this path when wondering what would happen if Gamecocks beat Clemson but then Clemson won the ACC. I went down the rabbit hole from there.
 
Obviously the big game in my scenario is this ND/Miami game. Whisky could also win out and be in no doubt.
 
twinkie13 said:
Anyone believe in the Canes?

Richt has the team it seems.....

And UGA is rolling.....
Click to expand...
NO. Smoke and mirrors.

UGA/ND intrigues me. If UGA falls, do you keep ND. They still have the home loss to the bulldogs. H2H still means something to the committee. Just see what they did with OK and tOSU.
 
I think this week is going to be very difficult for Miami, although their D should give them a chance. But their O I expect to struggle this week.

Still I do think assuming Miami wins the division, a few weeks down the road I wouldn't rule out a competitive game vs Clemson so if they win that I do see it as possible Miami makes it in as a 1 loss ACC Champ. I wouldn't pick Miami to win vs Clemson right now, but I wouldn't rule it out down the road assuming some more growth out of Rosier and Co.
 
Bama/UGA on neutral (yes I realize it's ATL) is a defacto elimination game no? Can't figure they need another neutral site to settle that....ND is in if they win out and ACC champ is in too. So the last is a mashup of one or multi-loss champs
 
KJ said:
Bama/UGA on neutral (yes I realize it's ATL) is a defacto elimination game no? Can't figure they need another neutral site to settle that....ND is in if they win out and ACC champ is in too. So the last is a mashup of one or multi-loss champs
Click to expand...

To me it should be an elimination game if they are both undefeated, but ND kind of throws a wrench in it if Alabama beats an undefeated UGA. The committee would have a hard time keeping an 12-1 UGA out in favor of 11-1 ND, given the Baylor-TCU situation from a couple of years ago, when they basically penalized the big 12 for not having a champ game. Now, it could benefit ND at the expense of the team that beat them.

Kind of a crazy year, almost like 2007, or even 2011. My guess is that something random will happen, and there will be a huge push to "fix" whatever anomaly happens. If Alabama, UGA, and ND all make the playoff, there will be an 8 team playoff proposal by the end of January
 
gps_3 said:
To me it should be an elimination game if they are both undefeated, but ND kind of throws a wrench in it if Alabama beats an undefeated UGA. The committee would have a hard time keeping an 12-1 UGA out in favor of 11-1 ND, given the Baylor-TCU situation from a couple of years ago, when they basically penalized the big 12 for not having a champ game. Now, it could benefit ND at the expense of the team that beat them.

Kind of a crazy year, almost like 2007, or even 2011. My guess is that something random will happen, and there will be a huge push to "fix" whatever anomaly happens. If Alabama, UGA, and ND all make the playoff, there will be an 8 team playoff proposal by the end of January
Click to expand...
I agree that it is coming, but I think their is a contract for a few more years.

The only fair way to do it since there is 5 auto conferences and 4 slots. Take conference winners and 3 best remaining with something in writing for the non-power 5 qualifier.
 
We got a lotta Buckeyes here, and I thought that team would be in the ship likely this year

But, why are they right there in the top 4 or right outside?
 
Seems about right...

I know Messy lost to 3 teams in top 25...but they have 3 losses...one good win..vs at the time an absolute struggle bus in LSU...they should be in low twenties...

Miami should be above Clemson right now. It doesn't matter but just saying...
 
B.A.R. said:
Seems about right...

I know Messy lost to 3 teams in top 25...but they have 3 losses...one good win..vs at the time an absolute struggle bus in LSU...they should be in low twenties...

Miami should be above Clemson right now. It doesn't matter but just saying...
Click to expand...
True.....agree

Why aren't they?
 
The committee guy said they haven’t beaten anyone on the road

I’m hoping for total chaos , so I hope Ohio State and Auburn win out[/QUOTE]
 
Things are just so much simpler if everyone knew that only conference champions get in. Then you know there are 4 spots, one for the highest ranked conference champ. It really takes alot of the guesswork and debate out at that point and puts it more on the field.

Seriously, if Clemson and Miami just played in the ACC Title game, why does that loser deserve a potential rematch with the winner in the final 4? Same for Auburn/Alabama and Georgia?

The conference races should be used as a stepping stone, a playoff, a prerequisite for entry into the final 4.

To me, taking a team that didn't win their division over the champion of the league is as bad as it gets. But taking a team that lost their conference title game is equally bad.

Remember 2001 Nebraska and 2003 Oklahoma lost their conference title games and still got into the BCS Title game. It was wrong then and would be wrong now.
 
I agree with all of this but we need to either have a separate playoff for the midmajors or extend the playoffs for all conference champs and 1 or a few at large bids.
 
I also agree.

I think a midmajor 4 team playoff would be really cool! 130 teams in IA/FCS is too many. These teams are far from close to equal and the revenue the P5 is getting is just further and further widening the gap.

NCAA controls very little, but they do control the designations. I long fought against such a move, but it is time.

I really like the conference champs only model for previously stated reasons. However I am not a fan of atlarge bids because I think that circumvents the already achieved results of previous games played. But all-in-all I think most of us are probably closer to agreement on the key issue than we are apart.
 
If they don't separate the playoffs you would have to do at large bids for the undefeated WMUs or the UCFs that actually finish the season undefeated. I hate to think they are just playing for a best case good bowl game to just run it back the following year.
 
Oh right, yes. I was assuming if they didn't split the teams then we would be including the champs of the MAC and AAC, etc. Which they will never do that.

The non-power 5 leagues are getting such a bad deal in terms of money, the best thing for them would be to breakoff onto their own and create their own deals. Sure most people won't care that much about it, but there is enough interest to generate some pretty good revenue so long as some of the better teams in those leagues currently stay there and don't jump up.

I think that is potentially a really exciting possibility.
 
s--k said:
Oh right, yes. I was assuming if they didn't split the teams then we would be including the champs of the MAC and AAC, etc. Which they will never do that.

The non-power 5 leagues are getting such a bad deal in terms of money, the best thing for them would be to breakoff onto their own and create their own deals. Sure most people won't care that much about it, but there is enough interest to generate some pretty good revenue so long as some of the better teams in those leagues currently stay there and don't jump up.

I think that is potentially a really exciting possibility.
Click to expand...
To be honest, mid major games are typically more refreshing to watch. Most of these kids do not have a future in the sport, so it is simply love of the game. Also, the league's are more tightly wound. Talent for the most part is equivalent. There are some outliers, but not like the power-5. Could create an 8-16 team NIT type playoff and beat the poeer-5 to the punch. True innovation.
 
I would either want an all-inclusive playoff ... or a playoff of midmajors and a playoff of the power 5 and then the two winners play eachother for a real champion.

UCF would be in my final four right now and I think they suck. But no one has proven they can be beat yet. That is to say, I think they are the worst undefeated midmajor team since I have fought for equality.

Take every conference champion and things get much better.
1. Every team has an opportunity.
2. Less incentive for teams to jump ship from their conference to a power conference for the money
3. More parity. Has to be super hard to recruit to schools who have zero chance of being a champion before the season starts, even if they just so happen to be the best team that year (See Utah that one year). By being more inclusive, you get more quality players in different places rather than congregated among the few.

The main point is that the entire concept of sport is playing within the confines of the rules of the game and having that outcome determine the result ... rather than preconceived notions. If any of you have ever been on a team that won against players who would most definitely be considered "better" than you or your team, then you know what I am talking about. Just because you or I or anyone thinks that one school or conference is better than another, doesn't make it so.

Let them play to decide.
 
The thing is there is so much money at stake currently the conference commissioners and school presidents want to determine where that money goes and they don't want to share it; they want as much of it for themselves and their institutions. They want humans that can hopefully, in their minds, have influence over, or atleast control the narrative and selection of teams that are lined up to reap the paydays.

In any sort of expanded playoff with expanded money sharing with other teams and conferences, the money would have to expand to the point it is worth it to them to change from what they have now and include more teams.

They aren't going to do this on their own.

And at what point does the money spigot start to slow? With ESPN having some financial issues, the pressure on the TV providers to be more competitive and with more consumers opting for cheaper TV alternatives, is there going to be the endless stream of money flowing as has been the case up til now? I don't think so. Unless more corporate sponsors step in and we get further inundated with ads and banners and signage on jerseys or something. Other sports are starting to experience some revenue and rating contraction and it is bound to hit college football at some point. These power conferences and schools that are dependent upon the huge TV contracts for current and future expenditures might find themselves in a crunch down the road. So when people say "make it 8 or 16 teams, think about all the money it will generate"...well maybe not.
 
I admit my plan is just good for determining a true champion (of which, we have never had one in the history of major college football).

I am in no way saying that it is in the long term economic benefit of the programs or sport as a whole, or in the economic interest of any particular school. Undoubtedly there would be winners and losers compared to where we are now.

Again, I just would just like to determine a true champion, since it is relatively easy to do.
 
I, for one, love bowl season and enjoy watching each of those games. My problem is that the integrity of the sport is a joke under our current system.

Moreover, ANY system that utilizes subjective determinations as the main factor in determining playoff participants is not a system that I would back as one that would produce a true champion.

I think it is unfortunate that I am forced to put an asterisk on every champion in college football. Do I think Clemson deserved to be champion last year? Sure ...they are deserving enough ... but are they the true champion when more than half the schools were eliminated based on opinion before the season started? Hell no. Do I think Clemson beats any of the teams from the conferences that were excluded? I do. But again ... that is beside the point.

To create a true champion you need the following:
1. An objective system.
2. The objective system must be inclusive of all teams.

Otherwise, it's all a joke.
 
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