NBA Finals Series and Game 1 Selection

  • Thread starter Thread starter joebrensports
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I don't see how you can possibly say Gibson and Varejao are going to match the production of the entire Spurs bench. Ginobli would be the second best player on the Cavs easily, yet he comes off the SA bench, I didn't really see you explain why he will be shut down. Hughes is still going to have that nagging foot injury, which will obviously slow him down, and I'm definetly not convinced that Pavlovic can do the job. Barry is also a more reliable shooter than anyone on the Cavs bench (or starting lineup for that matter). I think the bench is a hugee advantage for SA.
 
betcrimes those stats are from when the cavs had eric snow and flip murray as their starting backcourt.

i dont see how u think this is applicable to NOW.
 
this year cavs won at sa when sa was off a win over dallas (game lebron t bag timmy). then cleveland rallied at home to beat them by a half dozen i think it was.

however, that was the reg season and you have to question the significance of those games to both teams back then.

in those 2 games, lebron abused bowen. that i cant disregard.

the NOW ... cavs are in uncharted water, sa been here before. the defenses are a wash imo. so it really comes down to what offense you like more imo.

sa should win this in 6 but ... i think it will play out a lil shall we say entertainly different.
 
I think Joe's arguments are stretched. I'm not making a fan call on the Spurs to win, but I won't be making a stab in the dark on a big dog in the finals just for kicks either.

All I want is to hear arguments why Manu will be shut down and for example Varejao won't.

Also why do you think Spurs will have the same problems with LeBron as Detroit had, he is basically unguardable but if anyone's going to tamper with Cavs' game Spurs are the team to do it.

I like what Cavs have done so far, hats off to their coach and players, well done.

But how can you say that Denver and Utah were just mediocre teams (or whatever term you used) and that Phoenix would've surely gone through had it not been for those suspensions?

While at the same time you had Cleveland facing:


[*]Wizards, who are hands down the worst team to see postseason due to the injuries they had, then kick out, practically a stroll in the park there.

[*]Nets: solid team for Eastern standards but no match to Utah or Denver.

[*]Pistons: no words there, fantastic comeback from 0-2 and a great win.


But I still don't get how you managed to get the "who-teams-faced-so-far-in-postseason" argument on Cavs' side. Just baffles me.
 
brewer said:
betcrimes those stats are from when the cavs had eric snow and flip murray as their starting backcourt.

i dont see how u think this is applicable to NOW.
Click to expand...

That's the problem with ANY previous meetings between these teams. If you just want to look at this year then you'd have to look past the fact that Daniel Gibson didn't even see the court in the Cavs first victory over the Spurs and played only 5 minutes in their 2nd victory.


Good conversation going on here minus the part where Joe said the Cavs had the advantage in coaching.
 
And just for the record if PHO is the best team and Utah is average I'm confused. Utah beat Phoenix 2 out of 3 games this year. I guess that would make Utah the best team then?

The Spurs honestly looked unbeatable many times this postseason. I'm not a fan of laying the 7.5 as the Spurs had some problems holding a lead but I have no doubt about who's going to win the series.

I think the double down strategy might work for Cavs bettors as the Spurs have a bit of history of losing one of the first two home games. The thing that makes this team so great is their ability to win on the road. I have little doubt that if this series goes to Cleveland at 1-1 it'll leave there with the Spurs up 3-2.
 
JPicks, I have to go to owrk so I won't be able to address everything, just some comments.

UT is an avg team, but UT does play PHO tough except for the last regular season matchup. PHO is alot better than UT though. Just like GS is an avg team, but plays DAL well. But DAL is alot better than GS. Its just how some teams matchup with other teams. Some teams even though they are elite cannot beat a certain team.

I do believe the CLE CAVS have the coaching edge in the series, but that doesn't mean I believe CLE has the better coach. Its just the edge in this series. Hopefully, I explained this well and not confused everyone more.

I will be back tonight.
 
have the Cavs gotten better since this season or last.... yes but only on defense. LBJ has carried the offense.

Will the two losses during the regular season have any effect on this series? NO! when you play a team 2 times in a season, esspecially one you dont think you will see until next year, it is not a real game. Regular season is so drawn out and pointless in MLB and NBA that no game during the regular season should ever be used to handicap a game in the playoffs. I think with longer regular season series it might be something to look at, but they are not must win games in a pressured atmosphere.

also by the way last year Miami lost to Dallas twice. before that the last 6 years had split regular season series between the NBA champ and runner up.

I think this series is short, but for betting purposes/ entertainment I hope it goes 7.
 
I realize you were in a hurry, but please explain that coaching thing to everyone, I'd say the only advantage that Brown has is that he coached in SA, but that was awhile ago. It won't matter that he knows how the offense or defense works, everyone knows that by now .. the difference between Popovivch and everyother coach in the league is the adjustments he makes. I know you're in a hurry, but you can't just leave us with, "Cavs have the coaching edge in this series." In my estimation the Cavs only have one edge in this series and that's Lebron, a huge edge. I just can't agree with people saying they have any other advantage really, the other players on this team have no business in the Finals, talking about Varejao being any type of edge?? Please, he's a hack. People aren't talking enough about Parker, his penetration is going to kill the Cavs.
 
ds are are a wash
superstar edge to cavs
experience spurs
ingame adjustments spurs

offense - ? i would say spurs but with these two d's anything can happen. the more aggressive and assertive offense should get the calls and be favored on this end of the floor.

hungry - ? this is what wins this series imo. are the spurs hungry for 4 in 8 or whatever it is. how bad does lebron want the ring?


how the players on each team match up ...

donyell / horry

big z / duncan

james / manu (most likely bowen on d)

boobie / parker

sasha / bowen (most likely manu on d)

sideshow bob / uberto

gooden / elson

hughes / berry


* bold is where i see a distinct advantage.
 
Coaching goes to CLE. CLE coach is a defensive guru who coached the Spurs. HUGE edge goes to CLE. No conincidence CLE beat SA twice, just like GS beat DAL like 8 times this year as Don Nelson knows DAL.

This is absurd. Everything Mike Brown knows is a result of coaching under Popovich. Popovich is a proven big game coach, who probably has the most command over his team than any other coach in the league. Coach "Pop" will go down as one of the greatest of all-time considering the Spurs are due for many more championships under his reign (including this year's title). Coach Mike Brown is essentially a rookie coach, with this being his first series in the spotlight. Coach Brown has made countless poor coaching decisions all year. Not only does the SPURS have the coaching edge over Cavs, but they most likely have the coaching edge over every team in the league!
 
If you think Brown is a better coach than pop , then you really dont understand the game and that coaching and the ability to make the changes within the game, not waitin for half time or end of a qtr to make the changes is what makes the difference in regular season managing and playoff coaching ( See Toronto,mitchel so over rated and Detroit) This is what Pop does and does well. He also has the players to do it.

I also feel SA has the offense advantage, besides Lebron who else is going to score? Gibson wont have so many open looks he will need to create for himself, dont think that will happen, Big Z he may give you some points, just because he is 7'3", varajo, he sucks, not sure how he is in the league.
Gooden, if he shows up may get you a few points. donny marshall, might not see the floor, he cant play defense. Hughes injured. Sasha could get on a streak but it wont last. Same with Pavlic.
SA will go 10 guys deep, will throw different looks at Lebron, he should go be with his family (thats another story) at least he will have an excuse for not showing up to the game.
 
Adding:

2 units on CLE to win series +450 so 7 units total

3 units on CLE +7.5 so 7 units total

I guess I don't know basketball then, but CLE defintely has the coaching edge. If you don't believe me go watch the tape of GS/DAL.

Just two more days.
 
Another tape to pull out would be DAL/SA conf semis last year. SA had the coaching adv in that series too right? Nope, DAL had the edge. Do you guys see a trend yet...
 
The difference between Nellie's role in building the Mavs and Brown's role in building the Spurs is incomparable. Nellie built the team up and Johnson's intensity and defense got them to the next level, but Nellie knew how to stop Dirk and that offense, which he made. Brown is a disciple, not the teacher, of Greg Popovich .. big difference. The huge advantage for Pop is his in-game adjustments, something Brown cannot, or at least has not shown, that he has learned. Brown wasn't made head coach of this team because of his overall coaching ability, if thats what they wanted they would have gotten Larry Brown. They wanted a solid coach that wouldn't cause any waves and allow it to be Lebron's team. When Lebron speaks, Brown listens, not necessarily the other way around. Lebron is the Cavs only advantage.
 
I totally agree on basically everything, which is kind of funny because I think you believe it will be a close series ... I still think Spurs in 6. It's going to come down to who's "hungriest" basically because of Lebron. I think the Spurs have every advantage in this series except for him. If he wants to take over a game, he can do it, but I'm not convinced he will. He takes quarters off to get his teammates involved, but I don't see that working here. The Cavs are not a championship team IMO, but I realize the potential for some super-human effort from Lebron that will totally nullify every other matchup disadvantage for Cle. -- I've got a ton of friends from OH and get really annoyed when I hear about anyother advantage for the Cavs in this series, because Cle has no business being here without Lebron, but he turns it on and off. So, I give it to the Spurs. (I would have matched up Manu/Sasha and given the advantage to Manu .. I even would have given the advantage to Bowen since he's been hitting those threes and Pavolic has been absolutely pathetic.)
 
I am from Ohio and am very excited to watch this series. The person who said that the Cavs have the coaching advantage, I would love to get a little of what you have been smoking!!!!!!! Pop is alot better of a coach.

As far as match ups go I see a couple of things that will be very important to this series. First off Bowen can not stay with LBJ(no one can), However I dont think we have anyone that can contain Duncan.Parker will have to work hard for his points, and if Parker doesnt score it is going to be hard for the spurs to win. Hughes is bigger, but parker is faster. Manu is also going to have to work hard for his points as well. Sasha will probaly be guarding him and like Hughes/parker Sasha is the bigger man, and I think quickness is almost the same (manu maybe slight edge). As far as the bench goes, I really like the cavs here. I think that the spurs bench is full of hasbens(Finley, Berry, Horry) all our past thier prime and the cavs have some young hungry talent here(Boobie,Andy) and some veterans who need to knock down the 3's to win( AMON ONOS, Marshall)

I think that for the cavs to win they will need a big series out of Sasha on offense and Andy on defense. They will also need to get some production from either Amon Ones or Marshall on offense.

I think the Cavs win in 7!!!!!! Could go either way though.

GO CAVS!!!!!!!!!!
 
If it goes 7, I don't think CAVS win, but we will see. I agree with you about SA bench, they are definetly has beens. I like CLE size and defense. I also agree with you no one on SA can guard LBJ.

GL
 
Wouldsay this much. Suns coach did a very poor job in that series. Essentially no adjustments the entire series. Think Pop is the best playoff coach but he was never tested in the playoffs this season as the opposition simply played like a collection of children. Think Cleveland was the best team and coach to come out of the East. They did show some working brain cells so this may be entertaining
 
ok lets start hearing the excuses.

according to your first message cleveland will have to win the next 4 to win in 5. Oh ya the Rusty team you were talking about. must have had a little wd-40 cause they looked squeeky clean.
 
your absolutley right, but when he blatantly just says brown is a better coach, and just says there are more advantages that the cleveland has and is wrong on all his predictions of the game. I feel it necessary to say something.

As far as his pick,I am truly sorry he lost. never like to see anyone lose.

My disagreements are about how he sees the two teams and its clear he doesnt understand the game, the coaching the role players but then he says there are too many advantages to list.

He did the same thing at the other site, got reemed over there and hadnt been seen for about a year.

I make my plays well before i come to any site, then I come here to read different angles and discussions, maybe I have missed something or didnt know someone was hurt and once in a while get into discussions about the different game. If he won the +7.5 play, that would have been great but it wasnt because of anything he said would happen (he was wrong with every angle and matchup), nothing beats luck but an understanding of the game and luck is much better.
 
Beanbag said:
He did the same thing at the other site, got reemed over there and hadnt been seen for about a year.
Click to expand...

You know what, though...even if he's totally wrong, he's not being a dick about it. Don't start that shit from the other site here. He's not claiming game of the year or lock or any other instigating crap. He posted his picks and his reasoning. You don't have to like it, but don't bash him for losing. We all lose, sometimes.

This goes for anyone else thinking it's now the time for a free-for-all on JoeBren on CTG.

:shake:
 
redbearde said:
You know what, though...even if he's totally wrong, he's not being a dick about it. Don't start that shit from the other site here. He's not claiming game of the year or lock or any other instigating crap. He posted his picks and his reasoning. You don't have to like it, but don't bash him for losing. We all lose, sometimes.

This goes for anyone else thinking it's now the time for a free-for-all on JoeBren on CTG.

:shake:
Click to expand...

Red is exactly correct too. CTG is a clean slate. Quite a few guys who were not in good standing at Covers have prospered here.

I remember 2 years ago playoffs when Joe was capping NBA at a fine clip. He then had his rough stretches that fall and the shitstorm started. Covers JoeBren and Covers PhillyCapper has nothing to do with what goes on here at CTG.

GL on your games plays the rest of the series JOE:shake:
 
Beanbag said:
your absolutley right, but when he blatantly just says brown is a better coach, and just says there are more advantages that the cleveland has and is wrong on all his predictions of the game. I feel it necessary to say something.
Click to expand...

Bean, and I dont think your requesting his appraisal of matters after results are in, is out of line, just better suited for after the completion of the whole event, not just game 1.
 
Tough one to swallow last night guys. I have to go to work now, but HC Brown has to extend that game with 45 sec left and only down 8. You never know, didn't McGrady make a huge comeback before vs SA. SA can be shaky with FT's.

SA role players did not do much. Ducan, Ginobili, PArker did everything. If LEbron does more CLE should cover.

Leaning CLE and under for Game 2. I am going to Belmont Stakes tomorrow, so I should be back on sunday. GL
 
If LEbron does more CLE should cover.

That is the same thing Brown said at half.......except he said win. Lebron will not breathe in this series without the help of a San Antonio Spur. The Spurs will shut him down every single game, because they know no matter what if Lebron does not score they will win.

SA role players did not do much.

On Defense they did. Duncan and Parker also had fairly good games imo on offense and had the game not been out of reach before the start of the 4th, I think the spurs might have actually seemed like they played way better. No matter the score at any point in that game, I not once felt like the Cavs were going to win. This is a team that is much much better then detroit or any other team in the East this year.


Quite a few guys who were not in good standing at Covers have prospered here.

yeah, shit my standing over there is zilch.... never even posted there.

Joe I really expect to be playing Cleveland in game 3, but it will be very hard for me too. I will be suprised this series if Lebron scores more then 25 points in a game. goodluck with your plays, I expect to be on the same side for atleast one of Clevelands home games.
 
I was only trying to get you to explain why you felt so strong about the cleveland pick, trying to see if there was something I missed as i was very heavy on the SA ml.

I played D1 basketball and Football and I understand the games very well not just from playing but from being coached(yelled at) to understand why a coach might want you to do something even though you dont quite understand why until after you see the video after the game.
 
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