Monday MLB Discussion
- Thread starter bjorks
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bjorks
Secretary of Fondy Fanclub
They think it's rigged...just like the Sux game.
They think Webb deserves it, but they'll give it to Timmy because he hasn't gotten one yet.
Leyland and Armando were talking on the bullpen phone and Gallaraga was like fuck skip, I've got Chicago on the run line!
jimbo1227
Nice around mics, word to pippen
bjorks, blackburn gets battered on the road and has been battered by the sox this year. sox also JUST saw blackburn so not many surprises. on the other side of the coin, danks gets battered by minny. it could be a high scoring game tomorrow imo. cws offense is still stagnant tho...
jimbo1227
Nice around mics, word to pippen
i guess i sold danks a little short. line opened @ -145 at 5dimes. 9.5 total w/ pretty heavy under juice. i'm thinking people will probably be on the under and if thats the case i will fade the public under. don't know about the side but i might just bet minny and i win either way.... plus odds too which is nice
Godo win Jimbo. Left it was 2-1 b6th so catching up on the game now. The comment about TB earlier wasnt because I like TB its because the WSox are gonna be running there pitching staff thin just to get to the playoffs. Continually pitching guys on short rest and add in an overworked and inconsistent bullpen its gonna be tough IMO . Did Ozzie lose Javy with his comments on his big game pitching ?? Think thats what puts them at a disadvantage . Sure they could catch some momentum if they get there as well but playoff baseball as we know is all about SP . Milw is really fucking themselves having to ask CC to constantly pitch big games on 3 days rest. Trust me it always catches up to teams and always at the worst time .
Thats my take but good win ..
Thats my take but good win ..
Godo win Jimbo. Left it was 2-1 b6th so catching up on the game now. The comment about TB earlier wasnt because I like TB its because the WSox are gonna be running there pitching staff thin just to get to the playoffs. Continually pitching guys on short rest and add in an overworked and inconsistent bullpen its gonna be tough IMO . Did Ozzie lose Javy with his comments on his big game pitching ?? Think thats what puts them at a disadvantage . Sure they could catch some momentum if they get there as well but playoff baseball as we know is all about SP . Milw is really fucking themselves having to ask CC to constantly pitch big games on 3 days rest. Trust me it always catches up to teams and always at the worst time .
Thats my take but good win ..
Thats my take but good win ..
Over or 1st 5 inn over looks interesting to me. Neither guy has much success vs the opponent and has faced that team so many times . Both guys have ERAs nearly 2 pts higher in day games . Plus Blackburn just pitched vs WSox ..
Oh and Leyland is a dumbass . He shouldnt have let Garcia start the 6th if he was gonna use Galarraga. Second is why pull Galarraga after 1 batter ur bullpen stinks or didnt you realize that ??? Galarraga should have started the 6th and gone the distance or to Rodney . How long did he expect Garcia to succeed.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
my take is Leyland thought that Minny & CWS should decide the matter between themselves, and that Detroit shouldn't do Minny's work for them. His use of his pitchers late says nothing different.
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Pretty much a regular
I cannot believe I am going to defend Leyland, but here it goes:
Leyland had every reason to think that Freddy was going to give him another strong inning, but after a walked batter and stolen base, Freddy was visibibly having difficulty with his neck and appeared to indicate that he had a pull/strain. Honestly, I don't know whether to give Freddy dap or be appalled at how weak the Sox offense had been during that game. But he was effective in that game and if he had gone another inning or two, we wouldn't be capping ball tomorrow.
As for pulling Galarraga too soon, sure, there is some validity, but it was pretty damn obvious that he isn't destined for bullpen work. He didn't look like he was warmed up enough. Seay was the right call, Thome was fooled like a mofo and he was the right choice for facing Griffey too given Griffey's shit numbers against lefties.
As for tomorrow, my mind says the White Sox given Blackburn's road stats/Twins terrible road record etc, but my heart says we are going to see an early exit from the Twins in post-season play.
Here is why I disagree strongly. There was actual no basis for Leyland to believe Freddy Garcia could go past the 5th inning . I say that knowing he was out for nearly a year , pitched 2 rehab games for what I believe totaled 5 or 5+ innings and had not gone further then 5inn in his previous starts. Its clear he has no arm strength throwing 85 MPH . With a 2-1 lead why not allow a rested Galarraga to give you some innings . While Galarraga might not be destined for relief work two things stand out . The first being why put him in an uncomfortable situation with a man on base and in the middle of an inning . Seems starting him at the beginning of an inning makes it more normal to him especially if you say take us to the 8th or 9th inning . The other would be he was battling Dontrelle Willis for a rotation spot and I know he picthed 3 very solid innings in relief @ Oakland. He made one mistake that was a HR but other then that was real solid. Not sure if he had any other relief work in 2008 but he could handle a long relief outing IMO .
They had a 2-1 lead and controled the game. Also while Seay is the right move on paper it really isnt . It's all fucked up once itr gets to that point. The right move was allow to Gallaragga to start the inning or use Glover . If you use Glover its not a bad thing pulling him for Seay a situational LHP . After Seay gets his 1 out or two he then needs to be pulled . I think he totally fucked up that inning. So Seay does his job and know your stuck with Gary Glover in key spot if I am WSo fan I like my chances .
Just think you need a plan and if Freddy Garcia can deliver 5 quality innings with all my better arms rested in the pen then we are setup perfectly . Especially being up 2-1.
I still think nearly every manager and pitching coach has no clue to use and organize a bullpen. :shake:
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Pretty much a regular
Nut I absolutely agree, in all likelihood, teams with good plate discipline would have had Garcia on the ropes in the 3rd inning. Unless his FB improves in the off-season, he will be murdered next season.
Also, if this was a must-win game for the Tigers, I think we would have seen a SP (perhaps Galarraga) warming up early in the game to be ready to start the 5th/6th inning to be on the safe side. I also agree that it was a bad idea to have brought in Galarraga at that point in the game, but for different reasons. During that relief appearance he had in Oakland, he issued two walks and then a 3 run HR in the first inning he pitched and then settled down to pitch 2 additional innings. Certainly it's a small sample size, but my gut tells me that Galarraga is best suited as a SP or long relief in low leverage situations.
But I will also say this, Garcia was rolling in that game, period. Sox fans were in an absolute panic that Garcia was going another inning and who can argue with results? Garcia is also looking for a contract with the Tigers and I think Leyland wanted to see how far he could go and given his perfomance/context of the game, I think seeing him in the 6th was warranted. Again, if this was must win game, I think Leyland would have handled the game differently. But a team out of contention has different motivations at this time of the season.
Seay had to pitch to Thome and Griffey. There was no point in crying about spilt milk at that moment and while this was unfortunate, Seay is the best relief Lefty they had. Should he have been left in to face Griffey, meh. . tough call. But given Griffey's weakness against lefties and his lack of offensive production, Seay was the call instead of Fossum.
Also, if this was a must-win game for the Tigers, I think we would have seen a SP (perhaps Galarraga) warming up early in the game to be ready to start the 5th/6th inning to be on the safe side. I also agree that it was a bad idea to have brought in Galarraga at that point in the game, but for different reasons. During that relief appearance he had in Oakland, he issued two walks and then a 3 run HR in the first inning he pitched and then settled down to pitch 2 additional innings. Certainly it's a small sample size, but my gut tells me that Galarraga is best suited as a SP or long relief in low leverage situations.
But I will also say this, Garcia was rolling in that game, period. Sox fans were in an absolute panic that Garcia was going another inning and who can argue with results? Garcia is also looking for a contract with the Tigers and I think Leyland wanted to see how far he could go and given his perfomance/context of the game, I think seeing him in the 6th was warranted. Again, if this was must win game, I think Leyland would have handled the game differently. But a team out of contention has different motivations at this time of the season.
Seay had to pitch to Thome and Griffey. There was no point in crying about spilt milk at that moment and while this was unfortunate, Seay is the best relief Lefty they had. Should he have been left in to face Griffey, meh. . tough call. But given Griffey's weakness against lefties and his lack of offensive production, Seay was the call instead of Fossum.
Cause I dont see it as magic . Going into the game if I am Leyland then my thought process is just let me get 5 quality innings from Garcia then I can have Galarragi go the 6th and 7th minimum and then maybe based on game situations either mix and match the rest of way or ride Galarraga . The kid was ur best pitcher in 2008 .
I wasnt home and didnt realize he was injured and pulled . Any guesses to why he was injured ? Maybe pushing himself while he arm was not properly condition to handle that workload? The guy had a serious injury , surgery amd missed a year , his velocity is clearly done as well . Why are you pushing at all in 2008 ? Did they really need to even put him on the 1st track ? As I said just 2 rehab starts after such an injury /surgery ? Which amounted to 5 or 6 innings and now your asking him to pitch 5 innings every 5 or 6 days at the major league level? Plus any competitor in that situation is gonna push himself to succeed.
So while Galarraga wasnt even warming up isnt that even dumber ? Why put a non reliever in then rather just use someone else who is used to coming out of the pen ? Only furthers he was unprepared on how he was gonna use his bullpen .
I just think DET should have been jumping through hoops that Garcia gave them 5 inn of 1 run ball and after the 1st batters was excellent . What else was there to prove ? Use Galarraga as your long man ratherthen risk injurying him by rushing into the game unprepared . Throwing a baseball is a very violent action on your arm and it takes just 1 pitch in the wrong situation to do serious damage . I protected by arm as a kid like it was it was the most important thing in the world ...no throwing a wiffle ball ...and still dont overhand only submarine it ......BTW I would love to play in a pro wiffle ball league I can throw a wiffle ball harder then any person I have ever seen. In 5 years since I realized I could submarine it and gas it no one ever made solid contact .....Its insane ...and I come at ya like Dan Quisenberry ......:36_11_6:seriously though
GL jimbo.......:cheers:
I guess being a former pitcher I am sensitive to how quickly throwing one more pitch then your are conditioned for can be devasting to your arm. So did he leave just because of shoulder pain ? If he did seems like he backed up my statement. Just dont think you can push a guy . Thats why they have Spring Training to build up pitchers arms . So technically he is around the end of Spring Training and would you ask a guy off an injury to throw 6 or 7 innings at the end of March . Just think to much to soon .
With Galarraga you are correct . Which is why I dont understand why he used him at all . If he wasnt warm then why rush him in and pull him quiickly ? I was under the assumption not being home that Galarraga was warming up and ready to go ......
I guess I just think he was asking to much of Garcia . Your messing with borrowed time IMO . If he had no available arms in the pen then okay I understand why you may push him . However his pen needed 12 outs and a had a few serviceable options to get them......
Now watch Garcia is fucked for 2009 . I understand the FA angle as well but if your a baseball lifer you have to know your walking a thin line pressing Garcia with the little amount of baseball he has played in the past year . Plus what elevation are you making on him ? Dude is tossing 85 MPH . He is getting some outs fine but you want to bank on him based on a couple starts and overlook his velocity ....
Just mismanagement from my end has nothing do with winning bets or losing bets . This has nothing to do with gambling its about the way you should baby a pitcher not crap your draws hen a guy hits a 100 pitches. It's simply bad decision making IMO ...
jimbo1227
Nice around mics, word to pippen
nut, it looked like he tweaked his neck, not his shoulder. when it happened i had a feeling that he was faking something because he didn't want to blow the game. you are right leyland was totally unprepared for how to use the bullpen but i think since garcia's pitch count was so low at the time that he was going to let it ride.
also, i want in the wiffle ball league. my family plays intense games of wiffle, we made special rules in which their are no base runners and you put a bucket behind the plate and the fielder gets a chance to throw it at the bucket and if it hits it is an out. it is hard to explain but it makes for the best game of wiffle ball you have ever seen, i guarantee it.
also, i want in the wiffle ball league. my family plays intense games of wiffle, we made special rules in which their are no base runners and you put a bucket behind the plate and the fielder gets a chance to throw it at the bucket and if it hits it is an out. it is hard to explain but it makes for the best game of wiffle ball you have ever seen, i guarantee it.
