MNF Discussion

Tito

Tito

The Salty Dog
What's up Fellas -


I have not watched the Niners at all this year, have little feel for them, but I do see a pattern of them getting smoked, lol. Off of byes recently, they have gotten crushed. They made the Seahags look good. AZ at home is VERY strong, but I want nothing to do with laying close to DD's...although I read somewhere that teams laying just under DD's are doing well ATS - not sur eon that tho.

What I do like is this AZ offense at home - I'm looking at the 1H TT Ov @15.5.

My question to you all is what kind of response, reaction do you guys think the Niners will have to their new coach who is trying to change the culture there? Do you think they have the personnel to do this?
If anyone has watched these guys or knows a bit about them, do you think they have the mental fortitude to get their shit together and control this Offense?

Anything else you want to share ask is good too, thanks and GL!
 
I'm thinking about buying the hook and laying 9.

The Cards are 6-2 ATS.

The Cards are 3-0 ATS at home.

The Cards are 4-0 ATS as the favorite.

The Cards are 2-0 ATS as a home favorite.

I like the trend lines for the Cards, and even if Bill Walsh was coaching them, don't think they have the talent really to beat AZ.
 
I am leaning towards SF here. The teams have already played once this year so there is some familiarity. SF has performed well of late at Arz (winning SO there last year as about 10 point dogs) and most games recently have been close. Arz is the better team, no doubt, but SF should play with emotion tonight and Arz is not the type of team that wins easily week after week. They had an easy go of it last week at StL, so I expect a closer game tonight.
 
It's getting harder and harder to take the Cards tonight. EVERYTHING points to a Cards bashing...But...I'm seeing 9.5 to 10.5 lines, and thinking I may play the 9ers here. I think Shaun Hill will not turn the ball over as much as JT did this season...Reminds me of Raiders Denver games back in the day, throw out the records, someone will win by 3 like every time they meet. (Raiders and Denver always played close)

7-2-1 Record when these two teams meet, (that it will be decided by 10 or less.) The objective is to "dominate in the trenches" by stressing the run all the more the 49ers say. Leaning "under" as EVERYONE loves the Over tonight as well. :shake:

In keeping with a fresh-start theme, Singletary posted a list of new team objectives at the 49ers' Santa Clara facility on Friday to replace the tired and forgotten "Win the West" mantra of former head coach Mike Nolan. In descending order, Singletary listed, "1. Total ball security; 2. Execute; 3. Dominate in the trenches; 4. Create great field position; and 5. Finish."

"In all honesty, it's what we need to do," he said. "It's not a flavor of the month. It's what we have to do in the second half of the season to have a chance to be successful. We didn't do a lot of things right in the first half."

Quarterback Shaun Hill, calm and steady and as comfortable as an old pair of shoes, gets his first start on the road in his seventh year in the league. He'll have a new left guard in David Baas, a new right tackle in Adam Snyder, a new fullback in Michael Robinson, and young wide receivers Jason Hill and Dominique Zeigler adding depth to starters Isaac Bruce and rookie Josh Morgan.


The objective is to "dominate in the trenches" by stressing the run all the more. That's stat-conscious Frank Gore (629 yards, 4.6 average) you see smiling. Robinson, a quarterback in college and a short-yardage specialist in his first two years with the 49ers, probably will get the bulk of time at fullback providing lead blocks as well as representing a change-of-pace as a runner.


 
Lean the same way Vap. 9er's always play the Cards close @ AZ and I think the bye week and change to Hill will do some good. JTO created a bunch of short fields for the defense to defend with all his turnovers. Strange things happen on Monday nights...
 
The starting QB will be Shaun Hill and he looked great during his short run as starting QB last year. For any sense, I don't think anyone should lay close to DD to a team coming off a bye. By far, I think this will be 9ers biggest game of the year and if they fail here, there shouldn't even be a reason to take them for the rest of the season. Even after only a couple SF games, I do think their defense is decent and their offense improved in moving the ball across field. There were quite a few close games where JTO would throw back to back picks in the endzone to screw the game up, but I don't think Shaun Hill will make the same mistakes this game.

Definitely taking SF +10.5.
The best bet should be over 1st Q, which I will post after finalizing my plays.
 
Sean Hill when he plays looks very very very good, tough to say because he has played at home in all of his action-- He also has came off the bench last week vs Seatttle--

last year he started vs Cincy and won and Tampa and threw 3 td's--

He has thrown 6 touchdowns vs 1 INT---

He throws a lot of short routes, takes what the defense gives them--

HILL protects the balll and is actually the best QB on the Niners roster--

Mike Martz's nephew got shot, so his head may not be into this game also-
 
MYTH-- The BYE WEEK IS A SCAM--- This is the most overrated scam in the NFL- Bad teams do not become good teams with one extra week to prepare--

People look at a good team and when they win off the bye week, everyone thinks yah they won because off the Bye week- Bye's are bullshit, look at Orleans and Sandiego , they had byes and were less prepared to play than normal----

A bad team can have 6 months off to prepare, they are bad, and dont get new players in the game--

49'ers have traditionally played the Zonas very tough last year-- However ZOna offense has improved this year- How much, well they are #1 in offense, scoring 34 a game at home--- Their D is better although they giveup some points but have stuffed some teams of late, Rams 7, Buffalo 17, Miami 10--

Arizona has played IMO a tough shhcedule- Miami, Dallas, Carolina, jets, Buffalo, Washington-

THe whole yelling thing is a joke-- MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA- so they show a coach Scream and yell and now they are going to play harder lmao--- They showed that on TV for a reason, MEDIA attention, what if I told you that every coach does that weekly but it is not on TV and all over the news---

Usually when a team is in the 49'ers position, the game is predicated on what Zona does, if they take it easy they wont cover, if they play regular they win this game easily as they will score 31 to 34 points....

49'ers real key is Shaun Hill, he appears to be one of the smartest QB's I have ever seen play, he looks better than all of the 9'ers QB's-- He throws the ball to the right guys and shorter passes-- Tough to judge him, but his stats are good 6 td's vs 1 Int- althoguh he has came in blowout situation at home usually- started 2 home games last year vs Cincy and TBAY who both had nothiong to play for last year--

One thing I do know is that Zona D at home is a lot better, they can sack the QB and pressure the QB with hard hitters, Laboy, Berry and Wilson--

I have seen it many times where a team like the 9'ers comes out tries hard and packs it in, ala Detroit and other bad teams--

9'ers chance is to dominate the lines, and they can cover- if they dont they lose big- if they can sack Warner and hit him and give HIll all day to throw which i doubt they can.
 
So it looks like Hill is an upgrade (not saying much) at QB for the Niners. It looks like the Niners want to control the ball and "win in the trenches" - problem with that is the AZ run D is their strength while the secondary is a bit of a weak link.
That's how I see SF staying it, by throwing on this AZ secondary.

I read somewhere else by a guy that knows AZ well, that Wisenhunt has a run first mentality and after last weeks success by Hightower (against a weak runD) that he will be more inclined to stick to the run - but that plays more to the strength of SF as they are weaker in the secondary as well. This kind of scares me off the TT Ov for AZ - this guy is a respected capper who knows what he is talking about.
 
Tito said:
So it looks like Hill is an upgrade (not saying much) at QB for the Niners. It looks like the Niners want to control the ball and "win in the trenches" - problem with that is the AZ run D is their strength while the secondary is a bit of a weak link.
That's how I see SF staying it, by throwing on this AZ secondary.

I read somewhere else by a guy that knows AZ well, that Wisenhunt has a run first mentality and after last weeks success by Hightower (against a weak runD) that he will be more inclined to stick to the run - but that plays more to the strength of SF as they are weaker in the secondary as well. This kind of scares me off the TT Ov for AZ - this guy is a respected capper who knows what he is talking about.
Click to expand...

I dont believe that at all, its called balance he is misleading you---

When Arizona runs, they also throw, they are like the Giants exactly, run to set up the pass, they will run and then throw deeper routes to Fitzy and Boldin-- This way they cant tee of on Warner, that is how they got beat in the past when warner would throw every play--

If anything now they will be unstoppable, look at Giants and James was the problem as he was washed up badly, now with a running threat it makes 9'ers play the run and watch the pass also.
 
IN Arizona they dropped 30 on the Cowboys and their #9 defence. IN Arizona they dropped 41 against Buffalo and their #14 defence. IN Arizona they dropped 31 against Miami and their #17 defence. Hell, they even dropped 35 on the ROAD against the Jets #10

I am not complicating things here, I know Zona will score some points tonight, if 9'ers can score enough to cover then so be it and they cover--

Also at Arizona practice wide receiver Anquan Boldin ran the wrong route in practice and warner threw an incomplete pass. Coach Wisenhunt yelled at Boldin in practice--

Thought I would let people know that Singletary is not the only player yelling-
 
Of course the HC wants balance to his offense, but the point here is that he gets to attached to running even tho he has all these weapons - I really haven't followed them, I do know AZ O is prolific and Hightower helps them here -

It's scaring me off a bit, but I think that I'm still gonna go with my original lean of AZ TT Ov 1H -


Anyone read anything pertaining to Singletarys new mindset/coaching style - how its being received by the players?
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
MYTH-- The BYE WEEK IS A SCAM--- This is the most overrated scam in the NFL- Bad teams do not become good teams with one extra week to prepare--

People look at a good team and when they win off the bye week, everyone thinks yah they won because off the Bye week- Bye's are bullshit, look at Orleans and Sandiego , they had byes and were less prepared to play than normal----

A bad team can have 6 months off to prepare, they are bad, and dont get new players in the game--

49'ers have traditionally played the Zonas very tough last year-- However ZOna offense has improved this year- How much, well they are #1 in offense, scoring 34 a game at home--- Their D is better although they giveup some points but have stuffed some teams of late, Rams 7, Buffalo 17, Miami 10--

Arizona has played IMO a tough shhcedule- Miami, Dallas, Carolina, jets, Buffalo, Washington-

THe whole yelling thing is a joke-- MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA- so they show a coach Scream and yell and now they are going to play harder lmao--- They showed that on TV for a reason, MEDIA attention, what if I told you that every coach does that weekly but it is not on TV and all over the news---

Usually when a team is in the 49'ers position, the game is predicated on what Zona does, if they take it easy they wont cover, if they play regular they win this game easily as they will score 31 to 34 points....

49'ers real key is Shaun Hill, he appears to be one of the smartest QB's I have ever seen play, he looks better than all of the 9'ers QB's-- He throws the ball to the right guys and shorter passes-- Tough to judge him, but his stats are good 6 td's vs 1 Int- althoguh he has came in blowout situation at home usually- started 2 home games last year vs Cincy and TBAY who both had nothiong to play for last year--

One thing I do know is that Zona D at home is a lot better, they can sack the QB and pressure the QB with hard hitters, Laboy, Berry and Wilson--

I have seen it many times where a team like the 9'ers comes out tries hard and packs it in, ala Detroit and other bad teams--

9'ers chance is to dominate the lines, and they can cover- if they dont they lose big- if they can sack Warner and hit him and give HIll all day to throw which i doubt they can.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you say this is similar to the Browns vs NYG a couple MNFs ago?
 
Sammy, I don't know if you're referencing me when you make the point that Singletary screaming is not a big deal and other coaches scream too -
BUT

I just want to know if this new approach from the coach, on a team that was sleepwalking a bit - could have positive or adverse effects on the team. Some guys may say, "fuck him, not even our perm HC" or it could lite a fire under their asses...
 
Tito that is very hard to find out, we may find out when we watch---

I think though a team like Cleveland can do that, because they ahve talented players that under achieve-

9'ers to a certain degree can do that, they are not half bad, and have talent at running back, at linebacker and other positions---

I think it is interesting and I dont see them showing up flat tonight--

However this is the thing that i think of when thinking of this game bro--

Zona is weak vs the deep pass- teams that beat them hit them for deep passing plays- they are good vs the RUN---

9'ers are in dissarray- do they make everything better with a 3rd stringer, no Arnaz battle, I think Veron Davis is being benched- DO they stop Zona and Cards who avg 29 a game and 34 at home-- DO they do better than Miami who lost by 21, Buffalo who lost by 24 and Dallas who was losing by 16 points late in that game?
To say you cant lay -9.5 with Zona is wrong, as 2 home wins very over that margin, a road win vs the rams was by 27 and they won by 10 in sanfran- Take away the 10 late points by Dallas and every win was by 10+ points----

WHen they dont cover they lose the game, lost to carolina, washington and jets, all on the road-- this team has trouble vs those teams that can stop their run and throw deep on them..

Zona is a team that plays a tight game or pretty much wins comfortably in the game---
 
Tito I am trying to get in touch with this 49'er NUT i know, he knows them inside out, he will know exactly if they have a shot, he always tells me the truth on when to bet vs them and when they are going to win or lose badly in a game--

I think the key will be if we can stop Frank GORE---- Putting Shaun Hill in passing situaions vs the aggressive Zona blitz should work against them
 
I have no clue with this one.The Cards are a hard team to read. Too inconsistent at times.My best advice for this games is to pass. Rather play some hoops then bet on this garbage game.
 
Talked to the 9'er guy he told me he thinks ZOna will beat his 9'ers 38-18----

He likes the over and says that 9'ers are bad vs the run and actually decent vs the pass- once they cannot stop the run their pass coverage goes to shit---
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
Talked to the 9'er guy he told me he thinks ZOna will beat his 9'ers 38-18----

He likes the over and says that 9'ers are bad vs the run and actually decent vs the pass- once they cannot stop the run their pass coverage goes to shit---
Click to expand...



I wouldnt advise anyone to decide a side based on some "9er guy" with no credibility. Do your due diligence and formulate an opinion. I think San Fran keeps it close and possible backdoor cover. Gl to all
 
Briank017 said:
I wouldnt advise anyone to decide a side based on some "9er guy" with no credibility. Do your due diligence and formulate an opinion. I think San Fran keeps it close and possible backdoor cover. Gl to all
Click to expand...

If you knew anything and had some credibility I dont quote randmon guys with no credibility, the Ravens guy predicted the Ravens to compete for the Division and to go way over the team total, the 9'er guy is not confident at all in his team tonight-
 
Briank017 said:
I wouldnt advise anyone to decide a side based on some "9er guy" with no credibility. Do your due diligence and formulate an opinion. I think San Fran keeps it close and possible backdoor cover. Gl to all
Click to expand...

Agree - Arnaz Battle should be playing, but Vernon Davis is benched. No offense, but Davis never really made too much of a difference to the offense. There are still many playmakers. I also think there will be a backdoor cover.
 
So you think the books are gonna take a bath tonight with everybody thinking blow-out? Yet the lines haven't moved? Good luck guys but I'll risk it on San Fran. :smiley_acbe:
 
ManchesterUk said:
Sammy Im sold,cards by DD.

GL :shake:
Click to expand...

He does make some great points. I follow the NFC West very closely, as I am a Seahawks fan. The Cards are for real this year, and you will see Hill running for his life all game long. Simply put, the Zona front four can pressure & sack the QB, not to mention they can stop the run as well (only allowing 92 yards/game on the ground).

The Cards score nearly 30 pts a game, and give up roughly 23...conversely, the 49ers score 21 points a game, and yet give up roughly 29.

Cards --> +7 avg scoring differential
49ers --> -8 avg scoring differential

I think San Fran backers are putting WAY too much faith in a QB who has played a grand total of 4 career games, and every single one of those was AT HOME. This will be the first road game of his entire career. So, none of us know how he will perform tonight, as this will be a first, in what should be a very, very excited Cardinals crowd. This is probably the best team in franchise history, so...there's good reason to be pumped up.

Also, look into Hill's numbers...he's an efficient QB who doesn't turn the ball over, for the most part. But he limits his attempts, and relies on the success of the running game. We haven't seen how he will do when the run is stuffed, and he's forced to throw it to move the offense.

If the 49ers are going to keep up with the Cards tonight, they'll need to pass the ball more, which means taking more risks. I think Hill will play the worst game of his career tonight, and the Cards may very well pick him off multiple times.

After watching these teams play alot this season, it's Arizona -9.5 or nothing for me.

:shake:
 
spanishshark said:
So you think the books are gonna take a bath tonight with everybody thinking blow-out? Yet the lines haven't moved? Good luck guys but I'll risk it on San Fran. :smiley_acbe:
Click to expand...

Actually bro, the lines have moved...just yesterday morning, it was Arizona -9...now, it's up to Arizona -10 on many books...
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
Tito I am trying to get in touch with this 49'er NUT i know, he knows them inside out, he will know exactly if they have a shot, he always tells me the truth on when to bet vs them and when they are going to win or lose badly in a game--

I think the key will be if we can stop Frank GORE---- Putting Shaun Hill in passing situaions vs the aggressive Zona blitz should work against them
Click to expand...

Bingo!
 
Aztec I agree simply put people are taking things like Singletarys screaming and points in a divisional game---
Does anyone consider Shaun Hill is raw? Does anyone even care about Hill?

I think people are blindly taking Sanfran in what is perceived to be a good underdog spot off the bye and off the ripping by singletary--

But as Aztec pointed out, Zona front 4 is good and I also think it took Wisenhunt time to put his stamp on this team--

49'ers will need to score or keep the ball away frmo Zona to cover- 9'ers have a few ways to score-- off turnovers, fumbles and flukes or long gore runs---

Hill does not throw the ball deep- he is Mr. Checkdown-----

I seriously doubt it the Cards will come out like Sandiego and play like shit--
the thing is people are high weekly on Sandiego, new Orleans and Denver, but why no love for ZONA? because they can kick the shit out of all the 3 above mentioned teams, This is a biased because they play where no one watches their games-- they are never on TV---

This team is very good, when you look at this game you will say okay I have a 3rd stringer QB who has played well at home but vs Cinncy and Tbay last year and then vs Seattle in mop up duty- he never played a real meaningfull road game--

He will be pressured and IMO ZOna will hit him and take his checkdown from him--

The 9'er line is trash- 9'er guy told me that and SIMMS is out, they give up sacks, and HIlls's little mickey mouse checkdowns will get taken away--

Frank GHORE we can stop? How do I know that? If Frank Ghore could dominate he wuold have by now and they would win games by his running like AP- SOrry but Mr. GHORE is good but nowhere near a dominating running back--

Maybe Haslett should start yelling also and the Rams will be a play next week lol-

People are over analyzing this game- Zona is playing great and not struggling at all, they have no struggled at all on offense at home, they played a tough ass schedule and you expect me to believe that this 9'er team will be the one to go in there and stop ZONA--

I think the youngsters of ZONA will be pumped up- wilson, Fitzy, Bolding and Kurt on national tv will light up the 9'ers and Hill will be in for a rude awakening when his run is not working and he is facing pressure and has to make the throws--

Aztec called it Cards pressure with the front 4-- 9'ers line is trash they cant protect their QB's--
 
"49'ers real key is Shaun Hill, he appears to be one of the smartest QB's I have ever seen play"
Can you explain this a little further please. If he is so smart, why a backup on the 9'ers, I may have misunderstood this statement.

BTW. I don't think you can really look at last years games vs these 2 teams. I will admit to a division rivalry. Last year zona didnt have an identity, back and forth with the qb, let leinart play or Warner. Now its warners team. No in-house bickering and now the team has chemistry.
 
TheCashMan said:
"49'ers real key is Shaun Hill, he appears to be one of the smartest QB's I have ever seen play"
Can you explain this a little further please. If he is so smart, why a backup on the 9'ers, I may have misunderstood this statement.

BTW. I don't think you can really look at last years games vs these 2 teams. I will admit to a division rivalry. Last year zona didnt have an identity, back and forth with the qb, let leinart play or Warner. Now its warners team. No in-house bickering and now the team has chemistry.
Click to expand...

I somehow ironically did watch most of Shaun Hills starts and games when he played----

Mike Martz gets his QB's killed, his play calling does not work with the 9'er trash Line- most of their routes are deeper routes and you need protection--

Hill is a checkdown KING- he does not throw int's-- he goes short and can move the team, he looks like a guy that can move the team---

He looks like he was the #1 draft pick and the others were the fifth round picks--
Many 3rd stringers on teams are the best QB on the team. Brady was 3rd stringer behind Michael Bishop who is a major bust and now sucking in the CFL---

Shaun HILL has started 2 games last year----

he played vs CINCY and won 28-21 but CINCY was in mail in mode---

Here is the lowdown on HILL
 
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Last 4 Games</TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>101.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>69</TD><TD class=yspscores>102</TD><TD class=yspscores>67.6</TD><TD class=yspscores>674</TD><TD class=yspscores>168.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.6</TD><TD class=yspscores>6</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>14</TD><TD class=yspscores>34</TD><TD class=yspscores>8.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>2.4</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>8</TD><TD class=yspscores>42</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 14 '07 (MIN)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>106.9</TD><TD class=yspscores>22</TD><TD class=yspscores>27</TD><TD class=yspscores>81.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>181</TD><TD class=yspscores>181.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD class=yspscores>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>8</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 15 '07 (CIN)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>105.8</TD><TD class=yspscores>21</TD><TD class=yspscores>28</TD><TD class=yspscores>75.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>197</TD><TD class=yspscores>197.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>5</TD><TD class=yspscores>12</TD><TD class=yspscores>12.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>2.4</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>16</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 16 '07 (TAM)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>83.9</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD class=yspscores>24</TD><TD class=yspscores>45.8</TD><TD class=yspscores>123</TD><TD class=yspscores>123.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>5.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>6</TD><TD class=yspscores>-1</TD><TD class=yspscores>-1.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>-0.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>7</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 8 (SEA)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>102.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>15</TD><TD class=yspscores>23</TD><TD class=yspscores>65.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>173</TD><TD class=yspscores>173.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>20</TD><TD class=yspscores>20.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>10.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>2008 Year to Date</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>102.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>15</TD><TD class=yspscores>23</TD><TD class=yspscores>65.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>173</TD><TD class=yspscores>173.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>20</TD><TD class=yspscores>20.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>10.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=7><SPACER type="block" height="1" width="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=yspsctbg align=middle><TD class=ysptblhdr align=left width="20%" colSpan=3 height=18>Season Outlook</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER type="block" height="1" width="1"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=10>Passing</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER type="block" height="1" width="1"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=6>Rushing</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER type="block" height="1" width="1"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=3>Sacked</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER type="block" height="1" width="1"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=3>Fumbles</TD></TR><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>G</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>QBRat</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Comp</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Att</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Y/G</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Y/A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>TD</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Int</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Rush</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Y/G</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Avg</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>TD</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Sack</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>YdsL</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Fum</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>FumL</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Last 4 Games</TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>101.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>69</TD><TD class=yspscores>102</TD><TD class=yspscores>67.6</TD><TD class=yspscores>674</TD><TD class=yspscores>168.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.6</TD><TD class=yspscores>6</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>14</TD><TD class=yspscores>34</TD><TD class=yspscores>8.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>2.4</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>8</TD><TD class=yspscores>42</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 14 '07 (MIN)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>106.9</TD><TD class=yspscores>22</TD><TD class=yspscores>27</TD><TD class=yspscores>81.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>181</TD><TD class=yspscores>181.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD class=yspscores>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>3.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>8</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 15 '07 (CIN)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>105.8</TD><TD class=yspscores>21</TD><TD class=yspscores>28</TD><TD class=yspscores>75.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>197</TD><TD class=yspscores>197.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>5</TD><TD class=yspscores>12</TD><TD class=yspscores>12.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>2.4</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>16</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 16 '07 (TAM)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>83.9</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD class=yspscores>24</TD><TD class=yspscores>45.8</TD><TD class=yspscores>123</TD><TD class=yspscores>123.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>5.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>6</TD><TD class=yspscores>-1</TD><TD class=yspscores>-1.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>-0.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>7</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>Week 8 (SEA)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>102.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>15</TD><TD class=yspscores>23</TD><TD class=yspscores>65.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>173</TD><TD class=yspscores>173.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>20</TD><TD class=yspscores>20.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>10.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>2008 Year to Date



These are Hill stats
</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>102.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>15</TD><TD class=yspscores>23</TD><TD class=yspscores>65.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>173</TD><TD class=yspscores>173.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>20</TD><TD class=yspscores>20.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>10.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Cardinals look to show country they're for real



By BOB BAUM
AP Sports Writer
Monday, November 10, 2008

GLENDALE -- An appearance on Monday night football is a chance to show that these are not your father's Arizona Cardinals -- or your grandfather's or your great-grandfather's, for that matter.

This franchise has defined professional sports ineptitude for decades. A national stage in prime time Monday against the San Francisco 49ers is the perfect place to show that's not the case anymore. "I think it's a great opportunity for us to show who the Arizona Cardinals are," coach Ken Whisenhunt said.

Halfway through the season, the Cardinals are 5-3 and far ahead in the NFC West. With Seattle and St. Louis losing on Sunday to fall to 2-7, Arizona can expand its division lead to four games with a victory over San Francisco (2-6).

Whisenhunt just has to make sure the team isn't too emotionally charged for its rare Monday night appearance.

"It is a forum that guys get excited about," he said, "when you know there's a national audience, when you know a lot of your peers are watching you play, it's human nature to want to make a play."

The staff has preached the importance of staying disciplined within the scheme to allow the big plays to come without forcing them.

Arizona quarterback Kurt Warner, the 37-year-old leader of the highest-scoring offense in the NFL, says he would much rather this was just another Sunday game.

"I'm kind of I guess old school in that regard," he said. "I just want to show up and play and would rather do it as soon as I get out of bed instead of waiting all day and having to think about the game."

As for the chance to show that the Cardinals are a laughingstock no more, big deal, Warner said.

"I couldn't care less until it comes playoff time," he said. "We'll be on TV if we get to the playoffs and everybody around the world can watch then. But right now, we're 5-3 and I'm not real worried about anybody else out there and what they think we are as a football team."

Defensive tackle Darnell Dockett acknowledges that appearing on Monday night is "definitely a chance to show the world what we've got."

But he emphasized there is another team on the field, and that a victory over San Francisco is by no means certain, even if Arizona has won five consecutive home games and is 3-0 here this year.

"You probably think it's an easy win but we're not going to fall for that trap," Dockett said. "We know that's the team that kept us out of the playoffs last year and beat us a couple of times the year before. We just want to go out and execute and play ball
 
TheCashMan said:
"49'ers real key is Shaun Hill, he appears to be one of the smartest QB's I have ever seen play"
Can you explain this a little further please. If he is so smart, why a backup on the 9'ers, I may have misunderstood this statement.

BTW. I don't think you can really look at last years games vs these 2 teams. I will admit to a division rivalry. Last year zona didnt have an identity, back and forth with the qb, let leinart play or Warner. Now its warners team. No in-house bickering and now the team has chemistry.
Click to expand...

Hill is a backup because Martz has huge man-love for JTO. JTO was with him in Detroit that that is the only reason he is even on the roster. Hill is definitely a better game manager. He was in MN for 3-4 years as the #3 guy, but he did ok in the preseason games he was in there and did very well in NFLE when it was still going. They used to show the highlights of his games from over there during the offseason only because he had a local connection to the area (otherwise, nobody cared). He's not going to blow the doors off and isn't that great of an athlete, but he's a decent pocket passer and doesn't make stupid decisions. It also helped he was running a fairly consistent offense between MN and NFLE. The new offense installed by Martz this year is quite a bit different, so take that into consideration as well. That's probably why JTO started the season because of his familiarity with the scheme.
 
For those of you who dont know Kurt Warner is still playing at 37 because he lost the Superbowl vs the Pats--

He said that loss still hurts him and he wants to get back into the superbowl and win it--
This is a man who wants to win, a confident church going man--

This is setting up perfectly as ZONA will show the world how good they are--

Big time players make bigtime plays on Monday night and Fitxy, Boldin and Warner should have the xtra advantage of having the world watching. All 3 are already good, now in prime time they just take their game to that next level--

Chekdowns and short passes as you look above at Hill's avg yards per completion is about 7 yards and went down to 5 yards vs Tampa Bay in that start last year--
 
P-Unit said:
Hill is a backup because Martz has huge man-love for JTO. JTO was with him in Detroit that that is the only reason he is even on the roster. Hill is definitely a better game manager. He was in MN for 3-4 years as the #3 guy, but he did ok in the preseason games he was in there and did very well in NFLE when it was still going. They used to show the highlights of his games from over there during the offseason only because he had a local connection to the area (otherwise, nobody cared). He's not going to blow the doors off and isn't that great of an athlete, but he's a decent pocket passer and doesn't make stupid decisions. It also helped he was running a fairly consistent offense between MN and NFLE. The new offense installed by Martz this year is quite a bit different, so take that into consideration as well. That's probably why JTO started the season because of his familiarity with the scheme.
Click to expand...


Very TRUE Martz wanted to fuck O Sullivan-- Martz you see is all about EGO-- His nephew also got shot in Mexico or something so that may distract him--

9'ers 2 wins were vs Seattle in which a lucky Hassybeck INT TD changed that game and gave 49'ers the momentum- Seattle was also without top 4 receivers for that game--

9'er other win was vs Detroit who cares everyone beats them good--

Hill is a game manager, not athletic, when he comes in they are usually getting blown out,and GHORE runs are there cause teams are playing pass-- He throws the short routes which seem to be open, but I think Zona will pressure him with 4 and then that means those short checkdowns should not be open as linebackers will stop those---

In the first game ZONA dominated the Time of POssession, they had the ball all game long- 9'ers could not stop them and that was when the 9'ers were trying hard---

Hill will not lose the game and willl not win the game-- Game manager IMo wont work vs the Cards who are explosive on offense---

Quite simply there is no reason other than singletary going crazy, detroit coach, rams, do you think they are not yelling????? Yellling doesent matter when warner is throwing the ball and hightower is running---

THis is media at its best manipulating everyone---

Zona's only problems is when they turnover the ball---

The 9'er D can force turnovers, they get so many blcoked kick td's and int retruns, that is how they score---

It can happen where sometimes an offense struggles, but in this case the 9'ers would have to win a close game to cover--

Look at the numbers they dont lie, any game Zona loses they score about 17 to 23 points--- wehn tehy score over 28 they win by 10 points----

so to cover 9'ers have to shut down Zona to low twenties points---

With Hill and Martz nephew shot, and the fact that the players dont give a fuck about Singletary because if they did they would play for him vs seattle--

You think players like the fact that O sullivan is benched-- players hate 3rd string QB's, they always stick with the #1 starter even if he sucks--
also players hate being called out, is SIngletary retarded calling out DAVIS? You dont call out a player in public, that is a NO NO---

SIngletary approach works in college with young dumb kids, these pros will tell him to go fuck himself, and will definitely not want him to be the coach next year.
 
ALso factor in the Bye bullshit and the whole Singletary Army sergeant approach--

Okay so we have 9'ers going to come out to play-- they bring their game tonight because they are motivated in a good spot after the ripping and BYE---

Look at ZONA- here is a team playing on monday night for the first time in a long time, here is a team led by a steady general in warner and best receivers in the NFl-
Here is a chance for a D to show that they are for real and can make up for the 56 points given to the Jets--
Here is a team off a blowout win vs RAMS, where they looked like cold blooded killers, in that they just went out about business in a normal fashion--

Read the article Zona is just ready to play anwyere, anytime, they are not overpumped and just ready to play-- they are in the right mindset because Wisenhunt is a master motivator, he will have them in the right mindset to play-

On the other hand Norv Turner, Sean Payton, complete idiots, they have no clue about anything about football other than offensive plays, those guys are coordinators and not coaches--

Anyone really think SIngletary knows how to coach? How many coahces rip a player publically? I think he lost the team right there, you just dont do that- in college you can, because no one is getting paid and you have 3 guys at ever position
 
hear some chatter about how it plays in the 49ers favor coming off the bye week......lets look back and see how they have done coming off a bye in the past......

2007- LOSS 33-15
2006- LOSS 41-10
2005- LOSS 52-17
2004- LOSS 23-13

If history tends to repeat itself tonight will be a long night for the SF....
 
i am horribly confused!just about every good capper i know on the web is on sf. i just cannot see it. typical reason is...to many points or fade pub or books want az money. wtf! az often wins by double digits while sf often loses by double digits. seems obvious to me. matchups almost all favor az. i just cannot find one reason anybody would take the niners. just because a really cool old linebacker yelled and dropped his shorts? help....

also in the middle of analyzing historic info on faves of 9-10 (or in that are) in nfl and ncaa. i am noticing an abnormal number of covers in this scenario although i cannot give data at this time (not complete). this game falls in that category which raised my eyebrows a bit as well. i had requested some info last week about it on the ncaa forum but no responses. this was related to ball st and buf...both faves of that number and both blowout winners. i realize nfl lines are different but see this as an overlap.

cards or nothing for me...
 
The key to betting NFL is betting on expected outcomes--

People often over complicate things in the NFL which leads people to betting on detroit and Cincy every week. Everyone wants to be the guy who predicts when the bad team will come to play and is dissapointed when they do not---

When things go bad with a bad team they dont just magically become better on the road off a bye week.
What happens is simple the good teams take care of these cream puff teams like the 9'ers- the teams like Denver sandiego, New Orleans lose to the shit teams and dont cover--
When you consider that Zona AT HOME- home being the KEY is good defensively as they bring speed and pressure and make a lot of sacks at home-- When u factor that with Warner on offense, the result is 34 points a game at home--

34 points was produced vs better defenses in this league--
34 points was produced vs better offenses in this leauge-- miami dallas and buffalo-

The first game they could not stop Warner as Warner played the check down game and had a 5.5 yard per completion average which is way lower than his usual average-

That was Warner taking what the D gives him, the 9'ers have no answers to stop Warner, with a loose cannon coach and a 3rd stringer coming in with a team that gets down easily and is brutal vs the run, they are not in a good spot here to do much IMO-
 
scraps@midnight said:
i am horribly confused!just about every good capper i know on the web is on sf. i just cannot see it. typical reason is...to many points or fade pub or books want az money. wtf! az often wins by double digits while sf often loses by double digits. seems obvious to me. matchups almost all favor az. i just cannot find one reason anybody would take the niners. just because a really cool old linebacker yelled and dropped his shorts? help....

also in the middle of analyzing historic info on faves of 9-10 (or in that are) in nfl and ncaa. i am noticing an abnormal number of covers in this scenario although i cannot give data at this time (not complete). this game falls in that category which raised my eyebrows a bit as well. i had requested some info last week about it on the ncaa forum but no responses. this was related to ball st and buf...both faves of that number and both blowout winners. i realize nfl lines are different but see this as an overlap.

cards or nothing for me...
Click to expand...


First LESSON BRO- There is no such thing as a GOOD CAPPER on the WEB-

WHen looking at a one game situation the odds are 50-50, good and bad cappers both win games-- There is people will good information, no one is a good capper, that is false thinking, people can get lucky, and good cappers post more and thus it appears they are winning more--

A good capper is one that can predict the way a game will go and then make his bets---

When you nail the tempo, and can predict the score and certain matchups, that is a good capper.
 
49'ers undoing tonight is the BYE WEEK--

As a professional player after an embarrasment at home vs Seattle who by the way sucks, you want to play as soon as possible--

With the bye week they forget about the Seattle game, they forget about the tirades of Singletary-
Can they just try harder and keep this game close?

Not when facing a team like ZONA, they are hard to stop, even Carolina had trouble with them at home----

Thinking the 9'ers motivation and all that crap is negated with the BYE week, and ZONA also has motivation to show everyone they are for real and at home on monday night also-
 
I know SS...I'm just saying bro, the line has moved in Arizona's favor...and I see more people on San Fran than I do Arizona, at least on CTG.

Sportsbook.com had Zona -9 Sunday afternoon...by Sunday night, it was Arizona -9.5 (-115)...almost 10.
 
askias said:
I'm thinking about buying the hook and laying 9.

The Cards are 6-2 ATS.

The Cards are 3-0 ATS at home.

The Cards are 4-0 ATS as the favorite.

The Cards are 2-0 ATS as a home favorite.

I like the trend lines for the Cards, and even if Bill Walsh was coaching them, don't think they have the talent really to beat AZ.
Click to expand...


SF over 46.5 2 units
In San Francisco’s Last 9 games coming out of the bye week, the OVER is a perfect 9-0.

SF +9.5 1 unit
Az is 0-7 ATS as a home favorite of 7.5 to 14 points.
I'll take a MNF doggie coming out of a bye week.
 
Actually, it's Zona -10 now...so, by the looks of things, the books are trying to get some SF action, if you ask me.

:shake:
 
singletary is a run first coach-- Martz is all passing-- there is dissarray with these 2 coaches-- they will have conflicting styles, woudl not be surprised to see a pushing match on the sidelines between these two---

Thinking this may be lower scoring than people expect---

Warner has better numbers than during his super bowl season- He has 70% rate which is unreal--

The reason Warner struggled was JAMES who was washed at running back- and O line-- they could not run last year--

now with HIGHTOWER running they move the ball very well and balanced just like the giants do
 
Good thread Samuel :shake:

Just a little contribution.

Portis ....68yds
Marshawn Lynch ....55yds
Ricky williams and Ronnie Brown .... 53yrds
Thomas Jones ....46yds
Marion Barber.... 45yds
Deangelo Williams ...108yds
St Louis....Non existant

Ironically enough,the only other back bar deangelo to have success on the cardinal rush D was Gore,in the season opener at SF (14 carries,96yrds) tho,He did break one for a 41yd TD in the 1st Q.

Thought Id just post it while I was looking around.

SF will have to beat them through the air....dont think Hill can...if SF get behind early,it could get v ugly.

GL Tonight gents :shake:
 
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