Let's Jinx Tom Brady....:

twinkie13

twinkie13

In transit, arriving late.
6 straight AFC Championship games. Wikipedia accolades are crazy lol.

Best QB to ever strap up?

Regardless what happens, but let's say he gets to another SB.....or not.

Best ever? Anyone think different?
 
He's damn good. Didn't look himself today. I actually think Otto Graham's resume is comparable, but CTG doesn't count NFL championships that don't have a cool name like Super Bowl.
 
Otto Graham was like Steve Young, four decades before Steve Young from a skill set perspective. He was the best player in the game for like ten years.
 
First off let me begin by saying f*ck the Patriots.

With that said. Greatest of all time to me means that you could put him on any team and with any coach and his greatness would still be on display.

Tom Brady is a system QB. That's not a criticism. It's a fact. He is also one of the most dedicated and cerebral QBs of all time. His teams have won at a very high rate. First three Super Bowls were with defense. Last one was because of Brady. Many other times they were the best or 2nd best team in the playoffs and floundered. Specifically Brady floundered in those games.

I'm not young. And it's not a recency bias. Aaron Rodgers is not some young player. He's in his 30's. He will never have the wins of Brady. But he is an example of a QB who is better than Tom Brady at almost everything. Arm strength? Ability to throw downfield? Scrambling? Running? Brady has him in short slants and QB sneaks. Given Bill Belichick, many Great QBs could have become the "greatest". Rodgers is one.

Idc if NE wins 4 more Super Bowls. It's the culture and system that have made them almost perfect. He's no more the GOAT than Charles Haley or Robert Horry.

Not a popular stance. Don't expect mass agreement. Not enough time to care to write more.

Go Chiefs
 
Capaholic said:
First off let me begin by saying f*ck the Patriots.

With that said. Greatest of all time to me means that you could put him on any team and with any coach and his greatness would still be on display.

Tom Brady is a system QB. That's not a criticism. It's a fact. He is also one of the most dedicated and cerebral QBs of all time. His teams have won at a very high rate. First three Super Bowls were with defense. Last one was because of Brady. Many other times they were the best or 2nd best team in the playoffs and floundered. Specifically Brady floundered in those games.

I'm not young. And it's not a recency bias. Aaron Rodgers is not some young player. He's in his 30's. He will never have the wins of Brady. But he is an example of a QB who is better than Tom Brady at almost everything. Arm strength? Ability to throw downfield? Scrambling? Running? Brady has him in short slants and QB sneaks. Given Bill Belichick, many Great QBs could have become the "greatest". Rodgers is one.

Idc if NE wins 4 more Super Bowls. It's the culture and system that have made them almost perfect. He's no more the GOAT than Charles Haley or Robert Horry.

Not a popular stance. Don't expect mass agreement. Not enough time to care to write more.

Go Chiefs
Click to expand...

Or, "the system" works because of him. You are more than entitled to an opinion, but you can't possibly claim it as a fact since we don't have anything else to go on. Meaning, we don't have Brady on another team that we can compare how he did in that system vs. this system.

You could easily say the same thing about Joe Montana, and that would be sacrilegious to most. Comparing Brady to Robert Horry is f'ing hilarious though...hahahaha.

Haters gonna hate.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Otto Graham was like Steve Young, four decades before Steve Young from a skill set perspective. He was the best player in the game for like ten years.
Click to expand...

Even if this is true, what is it really saying if he was the only guy in the league doing it? The forward pass was still called the "forward pass" back then, wasn't it? It's like Wilt Chamberlain playing against everyone else in the league who is a half a foot shorter than him. Sure he was dominant, but there just wasn't the competition around to see if he was really THAT dominant.

I like Otto Graham's name though.
 
System QB for a 20-year great rings a little hollow when the pieces of the system around him keep changing and he keeps winning. Why don't the other teams just plug a QB into the same system?
 
Lareux said:
Even if this is true, what is it really saying if he was the only guy in the league doing it? The forward pass was still called the "forward pass" back then, wasn't it? It's like Wilt Chamberlain playing against everyone else in the league who is a half a foot shorter than him. Sure he was dominant, but there just wasn't the competition around to see if he was really THAT dominant.

I like Otto Graham's name though.
Click to expand...

He was dominating in an undiluted league at the game's highest level. What more do you want from the guy?
 
Lareux said:
Even if this is true, what is it really saying if he was the only guy in the league doing it? The forward pass was still called the "forward pass" back then, wasn't it? It's like Wilt Chamberlain playing against everyone else in the league who is a half a foot shorter than him. Sure he was dominant, but there just wasn't the competition around to see if he was really THAT dominant.

I like Otto Graham's name though.
Click to expand...

Otto Graham was Namath before Namath, Montana before Montana, Vick and Young (with the running) before Vick and Young. His Browns joined the NFL, and promptly won it.
 
tipyerbartender said:
System QB for a 20-year great rings a little hollow when the pieces of the system around him keep changing and he keeps winning. Why don't the other teams just plug a QB into the same system?
Click to expand...

Same reason many tried to run the Princeton offense over the years and none could replicate it. The system Is perfect and run by a perfectionist coach. Very little has changed about what the Pats do since 2001. The only time they changed was when they changed to a deep ball run and gun team and won nothing.
 
Lareux said:
Or, "the system" works because of him. You are more than entitled to an opinion, but you can't possibly claim it as a fact since we don't have anything else to go on. Meaning, we don't have Brady on another team that we can compare how he did in that system vs. this system.

You could easily say the same thing about Joe Montana, and that would be sacrilegious to most. Comparing Brady to Robert Horry is f'ing hilarious though...hahahaha.

Haters gonna hate.
Click to expand...

He is an essential cog in the system. Had Matt Cassel gone 5-11 (dragged my franchise down after leaving and can't
Get a starting job) instead of 11-5 or had they gone 1-3/0-4 this season. I'd say it's
Less the system than the man. There's some factual anecdotal evidence. Not hating.
 
I think Belichick has been a chameleon as far as gameplanning goes on both sides of the ball. He's a year or two ahead of the league. Brady has adapted as well, especially to constant personnel turnover. It's been a legendary match.
 
Capaholic said:
He is an essential cog in the system. Had Matt Cassel gone 5-11 (dragged my franchise down after leaving and can't
Get a starting job) instead of 11-5 or had they gone 1-3/0-4 this season. I'd say it's
Less the system than the man. There's some factual anecdotal evidence. Not hating.
Click to expand...

Those guys pepper the league. I think Hoyer's career raises my opinion of Brady.
 
Capaholic said:
He is an essential cog in the system. Had Matt Cassel gone 5-11 (dragged my franchise down after leaving and can't
Get a starting job) instead of 11-5 or had they gone 1-3/0-4 this season. I'd say it's
Less the system than the man. There's some factual anecdotal evidence. Not hating.
Click to expand...

System huh? How did Bledsoe do in your "system"? Maybe your Chiefs should develop such a system.

And how can you say you're not hating when you start of with "fuck the Patriots"?
 
Zeke said:
System huh? How did Bledsoe do in your "system"? Maybe your Chiefs should develop such a system.

And how can you say you're not hating when you start of with "fuck the Patriots"?
Click to expand...

lol. Quite the historian. One season as the QB and was replaced the first chance Belichick got. No clue what your point was. Perhaps to get a Chiefs dig in. Because your Bledsoe thing was worthless. Of course I'd want a system like that. Every team would. As I mentioned above, trying to replicate
It will lead to failure like it has for every Belichick disciple and everyone who has ever run the Princeton offense elsewhere.

And I can hate a team for the way they play/cheat/etc and their fan base who forgets football existed pre-2001 without being a "hater".
 
Trust me man, I've been a Pats fan for years & watched through thick & thin. It's painful living around here with "fans" who expect blowouts and SB appearances every year. I do get why people don't like Pats fans in general. I'm also sick of people bitching about them being cheats, such a fucking cop out & easier than explaining their own teams short comings.

And as far as the system & Bledsoe, funny Brady took them to the SB in his first year. Dude picks up quick on a system.
 
tipyerbartender said:
System QB for a 20-year great rings a little hollow when the pieces of the system around him keep changing and he keeps winning. Why don't the other teams just plug a QB into the same system?
Click to expand...
Exactly...
Do people say this because Garoppolo won some games and Matt Castle before him?

Cmon, let's be real.

The Gigantes got em twice, sure and Sneaky Pete fucked SEA out of another one...
But that team that went undefeated and lost to the Gmen was unreal. They just killed teams..

Either way, I am not "old" per se; but fall into the 2nd old group after the Injun and Sharks...so like a dinosaur here at CTG

I've seen Montana, Manning(both lol), Marino...never saw Terry or whomever

But this guy is the best
 
Capaholic said:
And I can hate a team for the way they play/cheat/etc and their fan base who forgets football existed pre-2001 without being a "hater".
Click to expand...

Well, no you really can't. If you're hating on them you're a hater.
 
Earl Thomas is a hater.

Earl Thomas ‏@Earl_Thomas <small class="time" style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(136, 153, 166);"> Jan 14</small>
Tom Brady has the easiest route... put his ass in our division and see what he does!!! #salty!!

7,578 replies9,256 retweets16,574 likes
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cogenman said:
Earl Thomas is a hater.

Earl Thomas ‏@Earl_Thomas <small class="time" style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(136, 153, 166);"> Jan 14</small>
Tom Brady has the easiest route... put his ass in our division and see what he does!!! #salty!!

7,578 replies9,256 retweets16,574 likes
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Click to expand...

Lol. In their division? Seriously? Tough to see how the NFC West is a better division than the AFC East. Also NE played that division this season and went 3-1. Horrible point Earl Thomas, horrible point.
 
Perhaps the Pats have used the same system over the years but the emphasis has certainly changed over the years.

With Weis they used a lot more run to set up play-action, with Corey Dillon as the feature.

Then they got Moss and Welker, Weis left, and McDaniels put more of an emphasis on vertical passing with 4 and 5 wide sets.

Then Hernandez and Gronk came into form with Bill O'Brien and they ran a lot of two TE with intermediate routes.

Then McDaniels came back and the offense went Gronk centric with more throws to RBs White, Vereen and Lewis as well.

Now they're basically getting little from the TE spot so they're going back to 4 and 5 wides, more uptempo, and still mixing in the backs with Lewis now healthy.

Maybe the same system from a nomenclature standpoint but they're constantly adapting, and that's a huge credit to Brady's ability.
 
Brady is the GOAT! The players now are bigger, faster, stronger than before! If Brady played this way in the 80's, 90's , he would also be the best back then.

GOAT!!!!
 
I've always wondered what makes the GOAT in this sport. Considering the amount of personnel are on a team would it not be easy to say that perhaps the top 10 GOAT in the NFL are all offensive players? Lets face it, outside of the QB's, RBs, WRs most casual spectators wouldn't know a lot of Defensive players.

Unlike in a sport such as basketball, a guy like MJ and LBJ can change the game offensively and defensively.

Thoughts?
 
Capaholic has either not been watching Brady's career or he has been watching through glasses that don't correct his vision. Brady's team did win 3 super bowls because they had the superior d, just like every other super bowl winner since the champ games began....his first as a kid still wet behind his ears he led his team down the field in a classic 2 minute drill allowing Venatari to kick the winner, but what defines his greatness is how good he has been when he hasn't had that great of offensive weapons around him and he has piled up all his records with suspect teams over the years that performed because he was so damned good, his ability to read defenses and operate efficiently in the 4th and the last 2 minutes off big time games defines greatness not "system" His game prep is legendary, he starts immediately after his post game shower and Bellichick says that if he doesn't come to Tuesday's meeting totally prepared for the next Sunday's game Brady blows him away in the meeting with his own prep....I appreciate Cap's capping, but I do not agree with his assessment of a truly great player.....but I'm a homer
 
I'm far from being a Patriots fan being a Dolphins fan but I will say this....as long as the Patriots have that QB and that Coach...they will keep going to playoffs and Superbowls.
 
The "system" argument is void.

This isn't a Chip Kelly, college type gimmick. When I watch the Patriots I'm not blown away saying oh my gosh, that system again!

If the system is being fully prepared, borderline cheating, that's one argument but his job isn't any easier cause of a system.

If he gets to a 7th superbowl you can crown him, for sure.
 
And that's GOAT QB.

Jerry Rice's #s will never be touched and he's by far the greatest football player to have ever lived.
 
Not impressed. The only legit team they beat in the SB was STL. Seattle gave away that win at the goal line. Beating Jake Delhomme and Donovan McNabb does not impress me.
They play Miami, Buffalo, and NY Jets 2x every year. Wow. I wonder how many playoff appearances the rest of that juggernaut division has had in the last 15 years? Buffalo 0, Jets 6. Miami 3.
Tommy's overrated.
 
BJPLAYER said:
Capaholic has either not been watching Brady's career or he has been watching through glasses that don't correct his vision. Brady's team did win 3 super bowls because they had the superior d, just like every other super bowl winner since the champ games began....his first as a kid still wet behind his ears he led his team down the field in a classic 2 minute drill allowing Venatari to kick the winner, but what defines his greatness is how good he has been when he hasn't had that great of offensive weapons around him and he has piled up all his records with suspect teams over the years that performed because he was so damned good, his ability to read defenses and operate efficiently in the 4th and the last 2 minutes off big time games defines greatness not "system" His game prep is legendary, he starts immediately after his post game shower and Bellichick says that if he doesn't come to Tuesday's meeting totally prepared for the next Sunday's game Brady blows him away in the meeting with his own prep....I appreciate Cap's capping, but I do not agree with his assessment of a truly great player.....but I'm a homer
Click to expand...

Again... I didn't expect it to be a popular stance. I can't argue against his numbers. They are what they are. You say he does it was suspect teams, I say he does it because he is put year after year in the position to be successful by the greatest coach who ever lived, which in combination with the preparation that you speak of spells great success.

I think he is an amazing quarterback. The argument has been here for a while, so let's not act like I'm making something crazy up. Is it Bill or is it Tom. I say they are both great. And I say if Tom Brady had Jim Tomsula as his coach for his career he would not be what he is. And isn't that what makes someone the GOAT? That no matter who is involved they would always be the best?

I've seen a lot of games. And if you told me I could have Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady at any age, I would take Rodgers every time. I'd take him in any quarter, any weather, any time. Thus, if I feel someone has the tools and is more talented and a better QB, I cannot then feel Brady is the GOAT.

I don't wanna get into a flame war, I just see it differently than the majority. And as we have seen forever (with the exception of this season) the public isn't always definitively correct.

As an aside, I will be betting on the Pats heavily this week. So he's good enough for me there.
 
Hard to define a GOAT in football because it is such a coaching and team oriented game. Teams prepare a full week to play a 3 hour game with about 140 plays in it. That's an incredible ratio of prep to play compared to the other big sports. Then each play starts from a dead stop and involves the utmost attention from 22 players, the most in any sport (soccer has the same but I'd argue the goalie is only involved when the ball is in their end).
 
Best player i ever saw was Lawrence Taylor. Offensively, probably Jerry Rice.

I cam sit here and comment on pete carrol giving brady 1 superbowl, the league giving him another when he fumbled the game away when Woodson hit him and the league giving him another by allowing patriot dbs to rape colt wide receivers ....but results matter and stats matter. He has to be considered. Plus he voted for Trump.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Otto Graham was like Steve Young, four decades before Steve Young from a skill set perspective. He was the best player in the game for like ten years.
Click to expand...

And very well may have been a better basketball player but pro hoops was in it's infancy then so football offered a better and more stable salary.
 
Capaholic said:
Again... I didn't expect it to be a popular stance. I can't argue against his numbers. They are what they are. You say he does it was suspect teams, I say he does it because he is put year after year in the position to be successful by the greatest coach who ever lived, which in combination with the preparation that you speak of spells great success.

I think he is an amazing quarterback. The argument has been here for a while, so let's not act like I'm making something crazy up. Is it Bill or is it Tom. I say they are both great. And I say if Tom Brady had Jim Tomsula as his coach for his career he would not be what he is. And isn't that what makes someone the GOAT? That no matter who is involved they would always be the best?

I've seen a lot of games. And if you told me I could have Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady at any age, I would take Rodgers every time. I'd take him in any quarter, any weather, any time. Thus, if I feel someone has the tools and is more talented and a better QB, I cannot then feel Brady is the GOAT.

I don't wanna get into a flame war, I just see it differently than the majority. And as we have seen forever (with the exception of this season) the public isn't always definitively correct.

As an aside, I will be betting on the Pats heavily this week. So he's good enough for me there.
Click to expand...

you make a good point, i think rogers is awesome also
 
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