Kobe theory

Joe Public

Joe Public

Gabibbo's Finest
Forgive me if somebody's already suggested this, but something on the radio today got me thinking.

Does anybody else think Kobe is pulling a Vince Carter in preseason right now?

I'm not saying he's going to take it into the regular season, but these games don't count, so for him to brick shots and let the team lose without his help does send a message. It says that he not only doesn't want to be in L.A. any more, but that they're going to regret treating him like this--and it all happens when the games don't count so it's not like people can call him Vince Carter or Randy Moss.

I'm not sure how true it is, and maybe I'm way off, but the Lakers do have one more preseason game left. Maybe it's worth half a unit to go the other way here.

Or, since it's on ESPN, does he ball hog it and go off to show teams what they'd be getting after sending his message to the Lakers in the last two games?

Thoughts?
 
well he's been struggling because of Phil's preseason approach. He's been experimenting with a new uptempo aspect to the triangle and it trying to make Kobe into a distributor. This throws the game off leading Kobe into turnovers and bad shots
 
Yeah, SF makes an interesting point which I didn't know about what Jackson's doing.

Still, to me, Kobe dogging it in a couple of preseason games makes a lot of sense because he's such a self-centered baby--not that the team is all that more mature or anything.

I wish I'd thought of this a week ago when the whole 'now they are going to trade him' thing resurfaced. Because his performance really does mirror the way he's come off in interviews over the last week, which is like someone who just doesn't give a s**t and is just playing out the string until he moves on.
 
Kobe = GOAT

At least on the offensive end of the floor. No question in my mind. He can do so much more with the ball than MJ ever could.
 
He can do so much more with the ball than MJ ever could.

As a Knicks fan I'll go to my grave hating MJ, but I still think you're smoking if you've got Kobe at the greatest of all time. I'm pretty sure it's an either/or argument for Wilt or Bill Russell as the greatest of all time, atl least for big men, and quite probably Oscar for anything other than that because when you can average a triple-double for a season that's simply beyond comprehension at this point.

Creatively, though, Kobe might have a case behind MJ and Dr. J., but as far as overall impact on the game and the league I think MJ was as close as we're going to get to changing the game for a long time.
 
Read what I said again Joe.
Phil Jackson also agreed with me on that one. He said with the ball in his hands Kobe was better than MJ :smiley_acbe: Moving without the ball he said it was Jordan.

Kobe holds so many more scoring records that Jordan never came close to touching. Watch a game and you can see his greatness. Then imagine Kobe playing with Pippen Kerr Kukoc and good shooters.. not the shit hes had in LA.
 
Kobe is the best defender in the NBA... close to it and he can't even come close to MJ. MJ is the best ever because he never was outplayed... Kobe is my favorite player but he constantly gets outplayed... Jordan never did.

Kobe has more range but he does not have the high % mid range game of Jordan. Jordan played in a better era and shot 50% from the field. Kobe shoots 5% below that...

Jordan would have guys like Bynum, Brown, Cook looking like all-stars...
 
Who were the top 2 guards in jordans era?? Just curious how many were built like tmac,wade or lebron..

John Starks? Hornacek? Cmon man
 
I think the reason his % is low is becuz he doesnt trust his teammates. He is the second best mid range shooter in the game behind rip. Jordan had other guys on the team to help him out. Im sorry but kobe is the most dominant scorer that i have seen in a loooong time
 
Joe Public said:
Does anybody else think Kobe is pulling a Vince Carter in preseason right now?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Thats all unsubstantiated bunk made up by a bunch of immature 12 year old Raptor fans. He didnt tank the games; Mitchell put him in a position to fail. I watched some of those games when people on another board claim he tanked.
 
abcs said:
Who were the top 2 guards in jordans era?? Just curious how many were built like tmac,wade or lebron..

John Starks? Hornacek? Cmon man
Click to expand...
I think a lot of you young guys think the Jordan era was after baseball. I see you mention Kerr, Kukoc, etc...

believe it or not the early ninties version of the bulls was better than the late nineties. League was so watered down by then.

Jordans true "era"...84-93....shooting guards at times

Mitch Richmond
Joe D.
Jeff Malone
Byron Scott
Ron Harper
Petro
Reggie Miller
Rolando Blackman
Clyde
Dale Ellis




Now, to other points. Inspekdah is right. Kobe is the best defender. That is, when he wants to be. For instance, the FIBA games. Problem is, and your boy hustle will tell ya Brian, is that he won;t bring it in the season. Thats something Jordan would do.

Have read the Phil quotes before. I agree and disagree. Kobe is right there with ball in his hands but I think they are about equal as finishers. Kobe more finesse, MJ more acrobatic and power.
 
Wait a minute...I didnt read the thread fully. Who is comparing Kobe to Jordan?

Kobe is great. I can honestly say.

Jordan is a legend. 2nd best player EVER in the history of basketball.
 
Ooh, Jeff Malone, good call.

Also, people may think I'm an idiot for this, but if I had to start a team with the guy in their prime, I might actually take Joe Dumars over Kobe.

I'm not convinced Kobe makes everyone around him better and is the floor general that Joe D. was.
 
Joe Public said:
Ooh, Jeff Malone, good call.

Also, people may think I'm an idiot for this, but if I had to start a team with the guy in their prime, I might actually take Joe Dumars over Kobe.

I'm not convinced Kobe makes everyone around him better and is the floor general that Joe D. was.
Click to expand...
Thats why your such a smart guy Joe.

He is prolly the most underappreciated player in my time. Simply amazing. His stats do no justice. He and Richmond were Jordans two toughest defenders. He could play both guard positions. He could drop 40 if needed or get 19-11. In a statistic driven league, these types get overlooked.
 
All i am saying is that the league is a lot more athletic. Maybe that says something about MJ. But if we are comparing the 2, then i think you have to look at who they went against. Kind of like how there are no centers now in the league..BAR i have seen all of jordans dvds i have them all i watch classic all day when the nba is on I know all of the seasons, i just dont think he is any better than kobe. Kobe seems to be a better ball handler as well. But we can agree to disagree
 
Thats why your such a smart guy Joe.

Hey, thanks, BAR, I appreciate that.

Speaking of under-appreciated, now there's a thread for you.

At which point I'd be ready and willing to throw Alex English on that list in a second.
 
There's no question the game today is EXTREMELY different than the game years ago. But you have to look at the impact that Jordan had on the game. He essentially began the athletic revolution that we have today. His impact on the game is much greater than Kobe's is today. But no one's impact on the game will be greater than Wilt's. #1 no player will ever single handedly change the rules of the game. #2 no one will ever post the stats that Wilt posted. When I say "no one", I mean no one EVER.
 
B.A.R. said:
I think a lot of you young guys think the Jordan era was after baseball. I see you mention Kerr, Kukoc, etc...

believe it or not the early ninties version of the bulls was better than the late nineties. League was so watered down by then.

Jordans true "era"...84-93....shooting guards at times

Mitch Richmond
Joe D.
Jeff Malone
Byron Scott
Ron Harper
Petro
Reggie Miller
Rolando Blackman
Clyde
Dale Ellis




Now, to other points. Inspekdah is right. Kobe is the best defender. That is, when he wants to be. For instance, the FIBA games. Problem is, and your boy hustle will tell ya Brian, is that he won;t bring it in the season. Thats something Jordan would do.

Have read the Phil quotes before. I agree and disagree. Kobe is right there with ball in his hands but I think they are about equal as finishers. Kobe more finesse, MJ more acrobatic and power.
Click to expand...

Shooting as a whole was better back then. My theory on the league being more focused on atheleticsm and highlight reels is revenue. Fans come to see entertainment, not good quality basketball. Entertainment sells to millions...Good basketball sells to a select few in the thousands.
 
first off i wanna say there are alot of kobe haters and i am not one of them, i personally love the guy. so im not biased when i say, i grew up during the jordan era since it began. im pretty proud to say that my dad sat me down almost EVERY game and said u "have to watch this, you will never see this again." i watched over 80% of all games jordan played which is a ton. since then ive been one of the biggest nba fans i know, i always buy the nba package so i get to watch every game and one of my favorite games to watch r the late night lake show games. my opinion on phil's quote r that he is a coaching genius and he is infamous for saying things like this to motivate his players. this quote was just another one of his genius ploys. kobe is probably more creative with the ball but that is becuz he has it all the time and he has done it for years. jordan led his team to 72-10, and i dont think kobe could do that with an all star team. i guess it is somewhat a matter of opinion but i have watched thousands of games of both guys and i know jordan is better. people who dont live in chicago didnt get to see jordan every regular season game when he would will his team to win every game.
 
But no one's impact on the game will be greater than Wilt's. #1 no player will ever single handedly change the rules of the game. #2 no one will ever post the stats that Wilt posted. When I say "no one", I mean no one EVER.

Exactly. Very well said.

But with that said, number two as far as impact on the league as a whole absolutely needs to be Dr. J.

Doc is responsible for entire franchises being in existence to this day and he precipitated any sort of athletic revolution that Jordan finished.
 
ahhahah people say wilt is the best, but stats dont mean the guy is the best. if i was a giant playing against midgets i would be the best, but as a pure basketball player? wilt couldnt drip a three if his life depended on it.
 
Joe Public said:
Thats why your such a smart guy Joe.

Hey, thanks, BAR, I appreciate that.

Speaking of under-appreciated, now there's a thread for you.

At which point I'd be ready and willing to throw Alex English on that list in a second.
Click to expand...
No doubt, guy was silky smooth and just an excellent touch on the ball.

Now, lets add another great SF, who should be in H.O.F. but somehow isn't..Adrian Dantley. One of the most unstoppable ever.
 
ya your right, it started with dr. j when it comes to athletic superiority and then MJ and magic took it to a new level and now everyone is amazing athletes instead of using simply "basketball skills"
 
Joe Public said:
But no one's impact on the game will be greater than Wilt's. #1 no player will ever single handedly change the rules of the game. #2 no one will ever post the stats that Wilt posted. When I say "no one", I mean no one EVER.

Exactly. Very well said.

But with that said, number two as far as impact on the league as a whole absolutely needs to be Dr. J.

Doc is responsible for entire franchises being in existence to this day and he precipitated any sort of athletic revolution that Jordan finished.
Click to expand...

Hey you know I'm from Philly, so Doc is definitely on my list (besides some of his antics in his personal life --- I'm rather conservative; that's all I'll say).

But still I wouldn't put DJ ahead of Jordan in impact on the league. Jordan's personal and team success simply surpasses Doc.
 
who should be in H.O.F. but somehow isn't..Adrian Dantley. One of the most unstoppable ever.

Completely agree.

Oh, and the reason Alex English would be an all star today is because you can count on one hand the guys in this league who can consistently hit a 15 to 20 foot jumper right now.

English would hit eight to ten of those on an off night.
 
jimbo1227 said:
ahhahah people say wilt is the best, but stats dont mean the guy is the best. if i was a giant playing against midgets i would be the best, but as a pure basketball player? wilt couldnt drip a three if his life depended on it.
Click to expand...

JIMBO...dude do you realize how difficult it is for someone of that size to actually live, let alone play a sport. My basketball playing experience goes as far as high school basketball. At that level, I witnessed how difficult it was for a 6'5 dude to attempt to play the sport. I couldn't imagine some over 7'0 attempting to play!
 
ive heard dozens of nba experts & other hall of famers say that jordan is the best "basketball player" which includes more than stats, athletic ability, and etc
 
ya the guy was amazing, noone will ever dominate like him. but i compare him to shaq, shaq sucks at basketball but he does damage cuz hes fuckin huge
 
But still I wouldn't put DJ ahead of Jordan in impact on the league. Jordan's personal and team success simply surpasses Doc.

The reason you have to--beyond his contributions on the court--is, again, because teams wouldn't exist without him.

It's not like Gretzky precipitating teams in Anaheim or Florida, it's that the NBA wanted Doc so bad that they had to accept entire, already existing teams to get him.

No Dr. J., no Nuggets, Pacers, Spurs, or Nets.
 
jimbo1227 said:
ive heard dozens of nba experts & other hall of famers say that jordan is the best "basketball player" which includes more than stats, athletic ability, and etc
Click to expand...

It's an on-going debate between Wilt and Jordan. And I think there's validation on both ends. My answer is Wilt, but I can see reasons for Jordan, too. The fact is that it's MJ and Wilt, and I can't see anyone entering their level in my lifetime.
 
Joe Public said:
But still I wouldn't put DJ ahead of Jordan in impact on the league. Jordan's personal and team success simply surpasses Doc.

The reason you have to--beyond his contributions on the court--is, again, because teams wouldn't exist without him.

It's not like Gretzky precipitating teams in Anaheim or Florida, it's that the NBA wanted Doc so bad that they had to accept entire, already existing teams to get him.

No Dr. J., no Nuggets, Pacers, Spurs, or Nets.
Click to expand...

Your points are all valid. So let me ask you...You're saying Julius Erving had a bigger impact on the existence of the NBA than Michael Jordan did?
 
It's an on-going debate between Wilt and Jordan.

I know you're working on being wasted, but do you think there's room for Russell in that argument? Based on the way he simply dominated the game for a decade? Or was he surrounded by too much talent?
 
i dont think anyone really got to watch any of wilt's game though and ive heard that he just got the ball literally every time and nobody could touch the ball when he had it over his head and he just dunked over everyone.
 
You're saying Julius Erving had a bigger impact on the existence of the NBA than Michael Jordan did?

Absolutely.

Doc is the missing link between the regional game it was before him to the national game it became. Because of Erving, the game had the nationwide interest and foundation it needed for the Bird & Magic era. Without him, without the teams he brought with him, the network through the middle of the country wouldn't have been near as strong as it was for Bird & Magic to do what they did.

Jordan, however, (along with Nike) is responsible for the game and the league becoming truly international. That's where I think he really broke ground.
 
actually i dont know about russell, he was ridiculously awesome but i compare wilt and jordan to tiger. i know it is a team sport but mj and wilt just dominated and nobody could do anything about it
 
my boy drexler gets no respect. mention hornacek and starks over him. imma speechless.
 
jimbo1227 said:
i dont think anyone really got to watch any of wilt's game though and ive heard that he just got the ball literally every time and nobody could touch the ball when he had it over his head and he just dunked over everyone.
Click to expand...

Dude, do you realize he'd just jump from the foul line (back then) and dunk/lay the ball in the net on foul shots?
 
does anybody agree that wilt gets too much respect seeing as how noone saw his games. i mean seriously i think he was playing with midgets
 
thats is exactly what i mean. wilt couldnt make a free throw, how is he the best player ever??????????
 
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