I saw something today that made me think more about these new rule changes

Wiretowire

Wiretowire

Pretty much a regular
I know I said I wouldn't start any threads except my daily bets thread but this is baseball and I will stand toe to toe with anyone on my game. I'm not always right but I am comfortable posting my opinion in MLB.

So, I had nothing to do while doing the laundry and I turned on the MLB network. I saw Mets vs TB was on and I decided to watch that for a while. Scherzer was on the mound and I'm watching the pitcher clock wind down and the game seems to be going along because everyone is I think used to it right now. Then something seemed odd to me and at first, I couldn't figure it out. Then it hit me.

I have watched Max Scherzer pitch since he came up 15 years ago with the Diamondbacks. Maybe because I was a catcher I know his every motion, quirk, and delivery pattern he has. But something was missing today. Scherzer always, always, always, takes a deep breath just before he throws. Always in every situation whether he has runners on or not. It's his delivery pattern. Get set on the rubber. Get the sign (or in this case tell the catcher what he is going to throw). Take a deep breath. Then deliver. But guess what? No deep breath. I figure there wasn't time for it. He didn't take a deep breath before any pitch today facing any batter. So why does that matter you ask?

It's not because it changes his rhythm which it does and is serious shit for a pitcher especially a veteran ace. It's not the hurrying I have been thinking will be the major problem with a pitch clock. It's fatigue. This guy always takes a deep breath and settles himself before every pitch. I realized it's not so much he will be less comfortable as it is he and other pitchers will tire quickly. Keep in mind we have been saying for at least the last 15 years just about every pitcher goes only 6 innings or so. That is what they are taught in the minors and a coach can be fired if he leaves a kid in even during a perfect game down there past the 7th. Yes, there are exceptions and a handful of pitchers will still take the managers face off if he tries to take them out but they only number around 10 or so in all of MLB.

No how does this affect the game? I have a suspicion that the new kids will be ok because they have done this for a couple of years and aren't used to ever being leisurely on the mound. But veterans are going to tire more quickly, and big names could well struggle this year. Add the no shift and I think some well known names are going to be hammered this year starting around June with two months of this crap under their belts. They may try to quick pitch some hitters but in the long run this constant throwing without getting a rest will hurt them in the long run.

One misconception on the part of the "experts" is that a pitcher that takes his time is trying to rattle the hitter. The reality is that pitchers were always taking breaks to conserve their energy more than rattle a batter. Now they don't get those few seconds breaks. Get the ball throw the ball. Try it the next time you play catch with your kid. Throw the ball quickly just 6 or 7 times and see if you are not more tired than taking your time as you normally do. Then imagine you have to throw it 95 mph quickly for about 90 pitches in the next two hours.

A funny thought I had was watch the movie "For the love of the game" and imagine that Kevin Costner only had 20 seconds to throw the ball instead of all that self talk and rest taking he did on the mound.

Thoughts? GL
 
Valid take Wire, it also plays completely into the concept of ADD and to an extent society in general. Do more now and as fast as you can at your max effort level

Wins as a stat have no business being required to go 5 innings now, it's a useless stat unless it's in your contract
 
Batters too have adopted the deep breathing at each at bat. I did not notice this with Scherzer, I find it very unusual to completely eliminate it from your routine. It's not like we're talking 10 seconds of breathing technique.
 
peelpub94 said:
Batters too have adopted the deep breathing at each at bat. I did not notice this with Scherzer, I find it very unusual to completely eliminate it from your routine. It's not like we're talking 10 seconds of breathing technique.
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You clearly don't subscribe to yogabysofia (hope i'm close proV) on tik tok, one breath takes her 30 seconds at least
 
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I agree KJ. Wins should be the pitcher most responsible not x number of innings. GL

I agree B.A.R. It will be interesting if anything changes. GL

I agree Peel. Batters also. Scherzer eliminating it would result in at least a few seconds more to get ready to deliver. You are right it is only 2 seconds but with that clock ticking something has to be changed. GL

I would pass out if one breath took me 30 seconds. GL
 
I hadn’t considered the possibility of fatigue but I been thinking lot of these relievers throwing 100mph taking their time cause they need it to ramp up for another 101 or to snap off a max spin slider. Just like the hitters are swinging for the fences every pitch a lot these pitchers are coming in and doing their damndest to miss bats every pitch! You right the kids shouldn’t have much issue cause they been playing w clock in minors for some time now correct?

Far as your point Scherzer in particular hasn’t been hurt at end the year but there been several years by time playoffs get here he hasn’t been the same guy. For some reason dodgers let him go super deep every start after they traded for him and he was clearly out of gas come playoffs! Seems like there been another year or 2 by late in season he appeared to be way more human. Not gonna dig into all the numbers but your point is a good one. Sure seems like he be able to get the other stuff done quicker and find himself with more than enough time to take a breath he has taken for his whole career!! I’d have never noticed that I don’t think tho. Good stuff.
 
I keep hearing the fucking espn morons praising this cause all they doing is taking out all the “literally nothing” that happens so much according to them during a baseball game but nobody says shit that these 40 min basketball games take 3 hours, for exactly 40 minutes of game time, or 48 min of on court action in nba for 2:30-3 hours it takes. So “literally nothing ” going on for 2 hours of a basketball game is ok but these baseball players need to hurry up cause we need more action cause baseball bores some these clowns, then don’t Fuckinh watch. It been doing fine without you fior 100+ years!

If we want more action on the bases and not just strikeouts and home runs then gm’s and owners should stop Fuckinh emphasizing those 2 things when they handing out money!! Seems pretty simple to me, you start using some garbage metrics that for some reason devalue knowing how to actually play baseball when it comes to contract negotiations what you think gonna happen dummies? You get a bunch of players that don’t understand shit but strikeout, walk, home run! All cause a couple smart dudes on a team w no money figured out a different way of looking at shit that allowed them to build a team w less money and have some success doesn’t mean every stinking team had to just copy them and now we have nothing but the same unimaginative cookie cutter computer geeks that have never been picked for their neighborhood team let alone actually played the game at any kind of high level on every team thinking exactly the same way. This is the problem, not the game itself, all it take a few ppl with a ounce of guts to start saying the truth, situational hitting wins as many games as a .200 avg but .800 ops that is somehow more the standard now days. They started telling guys batting average didht matter, strikeouts didn’t matter (unless you a pitcher then it all that matters?), now you can’t understand why your game has gotten so boring where all that happens is strikeouts. Walks, and home runs!!! Shocker!!!! Stop hiring douche bags w some political science and computer degrees from fancy colleges and start hiring some ppl who actually remember what it was like to play baseball that understand of course it useless to have one guy who gets on base, moves guys over, and does little things right when you have 8 other assholes swinging for the fences. Just cause you hsvnt figured out how to quantify those things doesn’t make them less valuable, it means your little programmers are seriously flawed.
 
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I agree with everything you say Bank. Absolutely true! The only thing I would add is that metrics don't work. Simple fact. Billy Beane in Oakland started this bullshit. You can see that story as everyone knows in the movie Moneyball. Oh, works great for a cheap ass franchise that just wants to keep payroll down, but Billy Beane and his cherished metrics system hasn't won shit in all the years he used it. And yet all the MLB teams subscribe to it and the "experts" call it gospel. The only teams that don't seem to use it are the Dodgers, and Astros. Now let's see, who has been in the last 6 World series?

"Oh, I know (Wire said with his hand raised.)"
"Yes Wire"
"Uh, that would be the Dodgers and Astros teacher."
"Very good Wire. So, you are saying Oakland and Billy Beane haven't won shit since they started this metrics stuff?"
"Why yes, teacher, that is correct."
"Wire is correct. The metrics haven't won shit for Oakland. Class dismissed."

By the way, the Oakland A's still use metrics. Do you know what the Oakland A's team wins for the season this coming year is? Over/under 59 1/2. Lowest number in all of MLB. That tells you all you need to know about metrics. GL
 
Why then did I bet over the 59 1/2 for Oakland? Because Billy Beane is no longer GM and now just an advisor, and he can't tell his head coach never bunt. God, he is a moron. Glad this idiot was fired. Oops, I mean glad he "voluntarily" stepped down from being GM to become an advisor. GL :rofl:
 
I would disagree bout metrics not “working” they a tool like everything else. I don’t think we should bash the A’s guys cause they didht win a WS, getting to playoffs w those payrolls is impressive and they were doing that up till this last fire sale. The fact they bad now I don’t think condemns the validity of their process, not only are they in middle of yet another rebuild so they probably aiming fior another year or 2 away when they should theoretically get a return on their trades but now that every team has copied them its obviously gonna make this method less effective for them, if teams with double, triple, or more the payroll are now playing from same playbook as them their edge of using metrics has been wiped out.

I don’t think houston or especially dodgers are good examples of proving anything, dodgers outspend everyone and let’s be real for all the money they throw around they only got the 1 championship and it was a totally bogus short season w playoff games being played on neutral fields. I’m pretty sure houston is very analytics driven not to mention the other stuff w them. Remember how houston built this loaded team? They played the tanking game and were awful for several years, they kinda the example of the analytic stuff being used on a team w money to spend. Beane was a pioneer even if he borrowed the philosophy from someone else, he was the one who had the guts to try and for better or worse totally changed the game. Yoi could certainly argue worse but not sure that his fault, that because none these teams have any imagination and all copy anything that has a lick of success! The bottom line for me is treating anything like the be all end all gospel isn ridiculous cause we live in a world full of gray, basing your actions off the assumption it black and white is foolish.
 
Thanks Teapot. I don't know who you are talking about. GL

I get it Cubsker. We disagree. That is normal for two people that have opposite opinions. Mine, as amazingly bad as you point out, is based on two factors. One, Beane believed that outs are the most precious thing a team can have. He wouldn't let his team "waste" outs to bunt and move runners into scoring position. I say runs are the most precious and important thing teams can have. Runs have a tendency to win games. Outs to my knowledge do not. Each team gets 27 outs so how precious are they really? To even think that outs are more important than runs puts him my moron category. Two, what did his innovation ever win? Can't remember his Oakland team having been in the World series in over the last 20 years. Didn't even have very good success in the playoffs. His ideas look good on paper but haven't been successful in reality. Now is a good time for you to just say I am wrong again or do you have some facts you would like to present? I'm ok if you just say I am an idiot, and we leave it at that. I'm getting used to it. GL

I'm not sure he changed the game Bank. He influenced teams into trying out what he thought but I don't see any long lasting success to his ideas. But then again maybe I am completely wrong, and he did change the game dramatically and every team is winning playoffs, pennants, and world series with minimal payrolls. That could also be why they are changing rules left and right to make the game more exciting to their fans. Call me old fashioned but to me success/innovation should result in playoffs, pennants, and championships. I think everyone gives this guy too much credit without him showing meaningful results from his ideas. But that's just me. And the bottom line is outs more precious than runs is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in the history of baseball. But again, that's just my opinion. GL
 
Wiretowire said:
Thanks Cubsker. Let me repeat. Billy Beane is a moron. Now you have heard it all twice. GL :)
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I’m not sure you understood the point of the book then (the far reaching point, the nuanced point), it wasn’t THAT particular system (it worked for them at that time, yes), it was more about thinking outside the box and not necessarily relying on the same old thinking.

Which is exactly what we’ve seen since then, covering many different aspects (spin rate, velo, etc) by many different teams. And all of these new ways of thinking have “worked” in one way or another.
 
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"All of BB's ideas won." Ahhh. Now I see. You are correct Cubsker. I no longer feel that's a point worth debating. GL

I'm sure you are right Jedi. I obviously did not understand the point of the book. Please ignore my old fashioned ideas about the game of baseball. It has obviously passed me by. It is a well known fact that us old people have trouble accepting new ways of doing things. Thank you for the response. I appreciate it. GL
 
wiseplayer said:
Looking forward to the baseball forum link to get moved up the ladder this week! Would really like to get into some RSW’s!
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I didn't even realize forum position was a thing

I just click on "what's new" all the time and end up seeing a ton of posts saying the same thing (I guess in different forums?)

Message boards will never make sense to me. What's new is all I care about
 
KJ said:
I didn't even realize forum position was a thing

I just click on "what's new" all the time and end up seeing a ton of posts saying the same thing (I guess in different forums?)

Message boards will never make sense to me. What's new is all I care about
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An old joke with Wire. When baseball is over the link immediately gets dropped under football and basketball. It pisses him off that CTG is so quick to do so! Lmao
 
KJ said:
I didn't even realize forum position was a thing

I just click on "what's new" all the time and end up seeing a ton of posts saying the same thing (I guess in different forums?)

Message boards will never make sense to me. What's new is all I care about
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You just taught me a new way to view. After all these years I never thought of doing it that way.
 
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Posted this on FB today, I woke up saying just spend it and see. By the way the pitch clock was awesome, that's actually what I paid attention to the most. But expense is gonna creep in....this was Padres/Mariners and a Seattle home game. My FB post:

Now the economics of a Spring Training game. That seat was $27 face, purchased though mlb.com and fees took it to $36. Took a Lyft both ways (15 minutes maybe) with tip was $55 round trip. 2 Kona Big Waves (Millier Lite was same price) $16 each, nachos and cheese was $10. With tip we're around $50. Roughly $140 to go as a single dude to a spring training game. Not sure how families do this..
 
Wiretowire said:
Thanks Teapot. I don't know who you are talking about. GL

I get it Cubsker. We disagree. That is normal for two people that have opposite opinions. Mine, as amazingly bad as you point out, is based on two factors. One, Beane believed that outs are the most precious thing a team can have. He wouldn't let his team "waste" outs to bunt and move runners into scoring position. I say runs are the most precious and important thing teams can have. Runs have a tendency to win games. Outs to my knowledge do not. Each team gets 27 outs so how precious are they really? To even think that outs are more important than runs puts him my moron category. Two, what did his innovation ever win? Can't remember his Oakland team having been in the World series in over the last 20 years. Didn't even have very good success in the playoffs. His ideas look good on paper but haven't been successful in reality. Now is a good time for you to just say I am wrong again or do you have some facts you would like to present? I'm ok if you just say I am an idiot, and we leave it at that. I'm getting used to it. GL

I'm not sure he changed the game Bank. He influenced teams into trying out what he thought but I don't see any long lasting success to his ideas. But then again maybe I am completely wrong, and he did change the game dramatically and every team is winning playoffs, pennants, and world series with minimal payrolls. That could also be why they are changing rules left and right to make the game more exciting to their fans. Call me old fashioned but to me success/innovation should result in playoffs, pennants, and championships. I think everyone gives this guy too much credit without him showing meaningful results from his ideas. But that's just me. And the bottom line is outs more precious than runs is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in the history of baseball. But again, that's just my opinion. GL
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As I said I think you can certainly argue he didn’t change it for the better but think he certainly had a big influence on things. I totally think all these computer geeks getting put in charge of teams a huge reason why now we having to change rules, they all started emphasizing the same things and discrediting things most of us know impact games. Players are gonna focus on the things they know get them paid, for a hitter we now don’t care if they strike out 200x long as they walk and hit bombs, what did they think would happen? On the flip side when it comes to contract time we tell a pitcher who been a consistently good player that we don’t care he wins games and has a solid era, those things apparently not predictive so if he not missing bats at a certain rate he not getting as much money. Apparently Tom glavin and Greg Maddox were just super lucky guys!! Cause we now believe anytime a hitter makes contact with a baseball you “lucky” when it not a hit! That part the philosophy is so stupid I can’t even say it without laughing!! Like there isn’t a art to being able to pitch to contact! If you can’t blow everyone away w velo and spin rate they gonna knock you come contract time! Just like they not gonna shell out any money to hitters for moving runners over, taking good abs, or doing any number of things me and you know contribute to winning baseball.

I think you being a tad harsh with championships being the standard, I know that what they playing for but we know for the most part the playoffs are pretty random, I def credit teams for consistently making the playoffs as much I do winning it all. Consistently doing it while having the payroll of a wnba team is impressive to me, Just looking at last 20 years of my cardinals for the most part I think I can make a good argument their best teams wernt the years they actually won it all, one of the WS teams was crazy lucky to even make the playoffs, they were a mostly average team that just happened to get crazy hot in sept and carried it all the way to the WS.

Im not gonna pretend im smart enough to say you wrong, maybe I am. I’d say like most things there some truth to both sides, that whole grey area thing I believe in! We don’t totally disagree, Manufacturing runs is certainly as valuable to me as a out is!! I don’t want my 3-4 hitters bunting guys over but if I have men on 1st and 2md with no outs I demand guys should at the very least move them over, I don’t care if it by bunt or what, if a guy on 3rd less than 2 outs I don’t care how a batter does it but if they don’t get that run home, especially if they strike out im pissed off! In those situations it is asinine to say the out is more valuable than the run! I don’t understand why we can’t seem to figure out In certain situations things change! Having a good hitter bunt a guy over to 2nd is probably a waste of a out but getting a guy into scoring position late in a tie game is obviously conducive to winning! That is ultimately my problem with the die hard analytics folks, they treat everything the same when certain situations dictate different standards to what a good at bat is. Once again when it contract time they dismiss a guys rbi total as if hitting a sac fly to get a runner home is just a out, as if not a good at bat, that is once again clearly ridiculous to guys like us. When these clowns use good at bats against guys come contract time whst they think gonna happen to the game? You have guys striking out with RISP cause come contract time the computer geeks negotiating said contract isn’t gonna care whether he strikes out or hits a sac fly, he only cares if dudes ops is a certain number so guys gonna treat every at bat like a chance to increase their ops instead of making a play that could win a game. As i was saying, grey area!!
 
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2daBank said:
As I said I think you can certainly argue he didn’t change it for the better but think he certainly had a big influence on things. I totally think all these computer geeks getting put in charge of teams a huge reason why now we having to change rules, they all started emphasizing the same things and discrediting things most of us know impact games. Players are gonna focus on the things they know get them paid, for a hitter we now don’t care if they strike out 200x long as they walk and hit bombs, what did they think would happen? On the flip side when it comes to contract time we tell a pitcher who been a consistently good player that we don’t care he wins games and has a solid era, those things apparently not predictive so if he not missing bats at a certain rate he not getting as much money. Apparently Tom glavin and Greg Maddox were just super lucky guys!! Cause we now believe anytime a hitter makes contact with a baseball you “lucky” when it not a hit! That part the philosophy is so stupid I can’t even say it without laughing!! Like there isn’t a art to being able to pitch to contact! If you can’t blow everyone away w velo and spin rate they gonna knock you come contract time! Just like they not gonna shell out any money to hitters for moving runners over, taking good abs, or doing any number of things me and you know contribute to winning baseball.

I think you being a tad harsh with championships being the standard, I know that what they playing for but we know for the most part the playoffs are pretty random, I def credit teams for consistently making the playoffs as much I do winning it all. Consistently doing it while having the payroll of a wnba team is impressive to me, Just looking at last 20 years of my cardinals for the most part I think I can make a good argument their best teams wernt the years they actually won it all, one of the WS teams was crazy lucky to even make the playoffs, they were a mostly average team that just happened to get crazy hot in sept and carried it all the way to the WS.

Im not gonna pretend im smart enough to say you wrong, maybe I am. I’d say like most things there some truth to both sides, that whole grey area thing I believe in! We don’t totally disagree, Manufacturing runs is certainly as valuable to me as a out is!! I don’t want my 3-4 hitters bunting guys over but if I have men on 1st and 2md with no outs I demand guys should at the very least move them over, I don’t care if it by bunt or what, if a guy on 3rd less than 2 outs I don’t care how a batter does it but if they don’t get that run home, especially if they strike out im pissed off! In those situations it is asinine to say the out is more valuable than the run! I don’t understand why we can’t seem to figure out In certain situations things change! Having a good hitter bunt a guy over to 2nd is probably a waste of a out but getting a guy into scoring position late in a tie game is obviously conducive to winning! That is ultimately my problem with the die hard analytics folks, they treat everything the same when certain situations dictate different standards to what a good at bat is. Once again when it contract time they dismiss a guys rbi total as if hitting a sac fly to get a runner home is just a out, as if not a good at bat, that is once again clearly ridiculous to guys like us. When these clowns use good at bats against guys come contract time whst they think gonna happen to the game? You have guys striking out with RISP cause come contract time the computer geeks negotiating said contract isn’t gonna care whether he strikes out or hits a sac fly, he only cares if dudes ops is a certain number so guys gonna treat every at bat like a chance to increase their ops instead of making a play that could win a game. As i was saying, grey area!!
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Best regular season team I've seen was the Mariners team that lost to NYY in the Wild Card...I really enjoyed September that year and October!
 
KJ said:
Best regular season team I've seen was the Mariners team that lost to NYY in the Wild Card...I really enjoyed September that year and October!
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It pretty rare the best NBA team doesn’t win, maybe not best record wise and lines have become much more blurred these days but most my life the team we mostly agreed was the best won it all. You would think 7 game series conducive for best team winning compared to 1 and done but baseball is such a goofy game, playing the best across 162 games doesn’t mean much if your team happens to hit a little slump or run into a team who has gotten crazy hot at the end. Having lights out pitching probably the best way to avoid that but now days hardly any pitchers are going much more than 6 innings so now you have involved 2-3-4 more pitchers at end every game who gotta be on. Hardly any teams have the ability to manufacture runs anymore so they gotta hope they have a few boppers swinging the bat well., so many pieces in a sport where having success 30% the time is considered great for a hitter equals winning in the playoffs is without a doubt more random than playing well enough over the course a season and getting in. Of course that has also changed now that we letting half the league in! That why i despised the addition of more WC teams and shortening of series, just makes winning it all even more random!
 
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2daBank said:
It pretty rare the best NBA team doesn’t win, maybe not best record wise and lines have become much more blurred these days but most my life the team we mostly agreed was the best won it all. You would think 7 game series conducive for best team winning compared to 1 and done but baseball is such a goofy game, playing the best across 162 games doesn’t mean much if your team happens to hit a little slump or run into a team who has gotten crazy hot at the end. Having lights out pitching probably the best way to avoid that but now days hardly any pitchers are going much more than 6 innings so now you have involved 2-3-4 more pitchers at end every game who gotta be on. Hardly any teams have the ability to manufacture runs anymore so they gotta hope they have a few boppers swinging the bat well., so many pieces in a sport where having success 30% the time is considered great for a hitter equals winning in the playoffs is without a doubt more random than playing well enough over the course a season and getting in. Of course that has also changed now that we letting half the league in! That why i despised the addition of more WC teams and shortening of series, just makes winning it all even more random!
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So much change to the game and this is where the eye test tells me most games will move toward 3-4 innings max for a pitcher and why the win stat should be changed to not mattering about 5 innings. It's incredible anymore when a starter gets through the top of the order twice in a game without getting dinged up. Getting to the point that guys that can go 2-3 full innings might be the most valuable asset on a team.
 
KJ said:
So much change to the game and this is where the eye test tells me most games will move toward 3-4 innings max for a pitcher and why the win stat should be changed to not mattering about 5 innings. It's incredible anymore when a starter gets through the top of the order twice in a game without getting dinged up. Getting to the point that guys that can go 2-3 full innings might be the most valuable asset on a team.
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For some reason im having brain block right now but there have def been a few teams more recently that got far based mostly off their pens. Look at the way Japan did USA lineup full of mvp’s, I don’t think any hitter got to see the same Japanese pitcher twice!! I don’t care how good a starter is, I think having to face a different pitcher every at bat is significantly tougher than seeing even the best starters 2-3 at bats. This another thing that has changed w the game I think is kinda a bummer, there a real art to being a starter and having the ability to navigate the lineup 2-3+ times, you have to be able to not show everything early, have to have the ability to not only get that 1st out but set them up for later at bats. Also a art to the hitter being able to process how he was pitched to the 1st ab and figuring out what he see in his next at bats, that is all but gone out the window as pitchers getting thru a lineup 3x is getting incredibly rare. There some kids you can tell the manager has no faith letting them pitch to a guy 2nd time let alone a 3rd time!! that a shame imo. That is obviously gonna make offense tougher to come by, the second you get a bead on a pitcher he being replaced for someone else who comes in throwing 95+ with some kind of filthy off speed pitch!! Hitting is hard, having to face a different pitcher with a different arsenal of nasty pitches, it doesn’t even matter if said pitcher only has 2 pitches when you only getting 1 crack at him, shit tough. Some these guys coming in have no clue where the ball going, how you supposed to hit a ball the pitcher has no idea where it going? Lol. Then next time you come up you now to the back end and facing set up man or closer who on good teams both throwing close to 100mph with a filthy splitter or slider, good luck!
 
Random spring training notes:

--with the pitcher pick-off limitations and baserunners subsequently taking larger leads, perhaps the back pick will become a more utilized weapon in the defensive arsenal.
 
chipnotized said:
Random spring training notes:

--with the pitcher pick-off limitations and baserunners subsequently taking larger leads, perhaps the back pick will become a more utilized weapon in the defensive arsenal.
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Will say this and I know it's not a popular opinion

If you throw over 3 times and don't pick the guy off, he deserves 2nd base
 
KJ said:
Will say this and I know it's not a popular opinion

If you throw over 3 times and don't pick the guy off, he deserves 2nd base
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That crazy, if dude keeps wandering out to a huge lead it insane you not allowed to try and keep him honest! Tell the guy he can’t take big leads if you don’t want pitcher throwing over!!! Have them standing on the base like softball, lol. ! It not like we see a excessive amount of throws over for no reason, I can’t imagine there any chance this shaves time off the game!! If anything it adds time cause be less double plays if you not allowed to hold the runner imo.
 
2daBank said:
That crazy, if dude keeps wandering out to a huge lead it insane you not allowed to try and keep him honest! Tell the guy he can’t take big leads if you don’t want pitcher throwing over!!! Have them standing on the base like softball, lol. ! It not like we see a excessive amount of throws over for no reason, I can’t imagine there any chance this shaves time off the game!! If anything it adds time cause be less double plays if you not allowed to hold the runner imo.
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Maybe I'm crazy

I love the rule, it adds strategy that I think needs to be added
 
KJ said:
Posted this on FB today, I woke up saying just spend it and see. By the way the pitch clock was awesome, that's actually what I paid attention to the most. But expense is gonna creep in....this was Padres/Mariners and a Seattle home game. My FB post:

Now the economics of a Spring Training game. That seat was $27 face, purchased though mlb.com and fees took it to $36. Took a Lyft both ways (15 minutes maybe) with tip was $55 round trip. 2 Kona Big Waves (Millier Lite was same price) $16 each, nachos and cheese was $10. With tip we're around $50. Roughly $140 to go as a single dude to a spring training game. Not sure how families do this..
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Ridiculous what they charge for spring training games.
 
KJ said:
Maybe I'm crazy

I love the rule, it adds strategy that I think needs to be added
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It really doesn’t. I guess they eliminating strategy everywhere else so just like offense they will try and manufacture it. It bad enough the clock will most likely give base runners a extra edge, anytime the pitch clock is down to 3 he can basically take off if he has forced a few throws. You don’t want throws over don’t let them take lead till pitcher goes into wind up. You let guys take as big a lead they want it makes no sense the pitchers are not allowed to combat that!! The base runner is just as responsible for throws over as the pitcher is, is he not? Shouldn’t we then need a rule that limits baserunners ability to take big leads? If you get picked off then next time you can’t take a lead!
 
2daBank said:
It really doesn’t. I guess they eliminating strategy everywhere else so just like offense they will try and manufacture it. It bad enough the clock will most likely give base runners a extra edge, anytime the pitch clock is down to 3 he can basically take off if he has forced a few throws. You don’t want throws over don’t let them take lead till pitcher goes into wind up. You let guys take as big a lead they want it makes no sense the pitchers are not allowed to combat that!! The base runner is just as responsible for throws over as the pitcher is, is he not? Shouldn’t we then need a rule that limits baserunners ability to take big leads? If you get picked off then next time you can’t take a lead!
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If some cat throws over to first three times in an AB and I'm at the game live, it makes the AB uninteresting. I've never enjoyed that little show down.
 
KJ said:
Posted this on FB today, I woke up saying just spend it and see. By the way the pitch clock was awesome, that's actually what I paid attention to the most. But expense is gonna creep in....this was Padres/Mariners and a Seattle home game. My FB post:

Now the economics of a Spring Training game. That seat was $27 face, purchased though mlb.com and fees took it to $36. Took a Lyft both ways (15 minutes maybe) with tip was $55 round trip. 2 Kona Big Waves (Millier Lite was same price) $16 each, nachos and cheese was $10. With tip we're around $50. Roughly $140 to go as a single dude to a spring training game. Not sure how families do this..
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$16 per beer? Jfc, that it for me. The $8 beer was about my breaking point to me starting to turn down free tickets all the time., it crazy, if you have any amount of friends in stl you gonna get free tickets offered to you at least 4-5 times a year, used to be I almost always took, now it rare. I used to get free parking cause one my best friends family owned the eat-rite diner so I could park there for free (even tho the grandfather who was owner looked like he wanted to shoot me anytime I got one his spots for free! Greedy prick!), think they sold the rest and held onto
The downtown location the longest cause what a cash cow parking was!! Now I gotta pay 25-30 like all the other sheep! Parking, just 2-3 beers, something to eat and we talking 100 bucks. Fuck that.
 
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KJ said:
If some cat throws over to first three times in an AB and I'm at the game live, it makes the AB uninteresting. I've never enjoyed that little show down.
Click to expand...

I really don’t think it happens enough to actually speed game up. Yes there the occasional time where we all start booing a pitcher cause he nonchalantly throwing over not even trying to pick guy off, I think that fairly rare tho. Most the time they legitimately throwing over cause they gotta give their catcher a chance to throw guy out. Maybe I’m wrong bout that and happens more than I think.
 
2daBank said:
$16 per beer? Jfc, that it for me. The $8 beer was about my breaking point to me starting to turn down free tickets all the time., it crazy, if you have any amount of friends in stl you gonna get free tickets offered to you at least 4-5 times a year, used to be I almost always took, now it rare. I used to get free parking cause one my best friends family owned the eat-rite diner so I could park there for free (even tho the grandfather who was owner looked like he wanted to shoot me anytime I got one his spots for free! Greedy prick!), think they sold the rest and held onto
The downtown location the longest cause what a cash cow parking was!! Now I gotta pay 25-30 like all the other sheep! Parking, just 2-3 beers, something to eat and we talking 100 bucks. Fuck that.
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It was shocking to me

I got Kona Big Wave but Miller Lite was the same price

F'n nachos and cheese $10 lmao....ticket through mlb, face value $26 but with fees was over $36, Everyone bags on ticketmaster but that's the same bullshit.
 
2daBank said:
I really don’t think it happens enough to actually speed game up. Yes there the occasional time where we all start booing a pitcher cause he nonchalantly throwing over not even trying to pick guy off, I think that fairly rare tho. Most the time they legitimately throwing over cause they gotta give their catcher a chance to throw guy out. Maybe I’m wrong bout that and happens more than I think.
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I don't boo, I get bored. Thus my opinion.
 
KJ said:
It was shocking to me

I got Kona Big Wave but Miller Lite was the same price

F'n nachos and cheese $10 lmao....ticket through mlb, face value $26 but with fees was over $36, Everyone bags on ticketmaster but that's the same bullshit.
Click to expand...

Yea that crazy. I think just a hot dog 5-6 bucks, probably up this year with all the rest the food!! Be $10 for a hot dog this season!! That be the end of ballpark hot dog for me!! Lol. There plenty of reasonable face value tickets but you right if you buy them threw team the fees Jack them up, no idea wtf all those fees for? Isn’t the price the ticket supposed to cover that shit?!?!
 
KJ said:
I don't boo, I get bored. Thus my opinion.
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Then as I said they should limit a baserunners ability to take leads, put a freaking line out there and anytime he past that pitcher can throw!! It does annoy me when there a throw over and guy so close to bag he doesn’t even have to rush back. That is dumb.
 
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2daBank said:
Like every sport it just seems all these rules are advantage offense, that gets on my nerves.
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Shifting was basically a wash on runs prevented, as there was a consequence created by the pitcher's tendency to favor the inside of the plate during shifting situations to prevent cheap hits the other way on the outer part of the plate, thus creating more walks. This was especially true for teams that did not deploy shifts as effectively as teams like the Rays, Astros, and Dodgers.

Steals, on the whole, represent an extra 1/5 of a run produced.

At the end of the day, I believe the rule changes are generally misunderstood, and exaggerate the amount of extra runs they will create.
 
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