Future Draft Busts of this 2015 Class

wiseplayer

wiseplayer

Pretty much a regular
I'll start with Amari Cooper. I don't see what people see in him. He's not that big. He's not that elusive, he's not that powerful, he's not that fast and somehow he's projected to go in the top 10? Some Mocks have him going to the Rams because they need a #1? As underachieving as the Rams receiving core has been, Amari would still be the 3rd or 4th WR. He's a much slower Chris Givens. What am I missing here?
 
He's one of the most polished route runners and WRs that's been seen in years. He's pretty much at the top of the WRs in any, and every, draft analysis you can find.

I'm not even sure Cooper would make many, if any, lists as far as "busts" go. That doesn't mean he can't possibly be a bust, but pretty much everyone thinks he's going to be a star...and nowhere near a bust.

Cooper is seen as the most NFL ready player in the draft by most. He has the smarts, the work ethic, the size, and the skill to succeed. I'm not sure what exactly you're seeing that points to him being a bust in the least bit.
 
I'm not sure what you mean that "he's not that fast" either. He ran a 4.42 at the combine, which was slightly slower than Kevin White (4.35), who has skyrocketed up the charts for his combine showing (and a few have White now ahead of Cooper on WR lists). So, you can say he's not the fastest WR coming out this year and that would be true, but to say he's not that fast isn't true at all.
 
Larry,
Amari Cooper has short arms. can lead to him being a bust
 
Mariota will probably bust in today's NFL, just because he'll play too soon for a shitty team.
 
Lareux said:
He's one of the most polished route runners and WRs that's been seen in years. He's pretty much at the top of the WRs in any, and every, draft analysis you can find.

I'm not even sure Cooper would make many, if any, lists as far as "busts" go. That doesn't mean he can't possibly be a bust, but pretty much everyone thinks he's going to be a star...and nowhere near a bust.

Cooper is seen as the most NFL ready player in the draft by most. He has the smarts, the work ethic, the size, and the skill to succeed. I'm not sure what exactly you're seeing that points to him being a bust in the least bit.
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but you see, I can't go by what others are saying. I go but what I see. I don't see a burst as much as I see DB's trying to cover him that aren't very good.
 
Rams taking Cooper wouldn't make sense to me

Many more holes to fill over wr
 
He seems like a perfect slot receiver. Maybe he goes higher than some think but if he can run good routes and catch the ball he can make things happen. Golden Tate runs a 4.42.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Mariota will probably bust in today's NFL, just because he'll play too soon for a shitty team.
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I agree. He's on my list as well. I really like the character but I don't see the slinger mentality. He never showed comeback ability in the championship game. At least Winston did what Luck and Farve would do. That is, sling it and who cares about throwing INT's when it's late and time to take chances. The Andy Daltons and Sam Badfraud's of the world when it comes to dump off dump off dump off, is a losing approach. You have to be able to throw in tight windows with courage.
 
wiseplayer said:
but you see, I can't go by what others are saying. I go but what I see. I don't see a burst as much as I see DB's trying to cover him that aren't very good.
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Well sure, but using that logic, we can't really judge any player coming out because they all face competition that isn't very good. And then do we factor in the QB they had throwing to them while in college?

Burst or not, he's not slow. And he's an incredibly good route runner for a college WR. He's humble, has a great work ethic, and crushed the competition in college.
 
tipyerbartender said:
I like the WVA guy better.
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Yeah, he's definitely risen up the charts after his combine. There are 3 WRs that have separated themselves, Cooper, White, and Parker (Louisville) from the rest of the WRs according to most experts. Cooper was rated higher than White based on their "combine profiles," but it wasn't by much.

Interesting comparisons given for them though....Cooper is compared to Marvin Harrison, while White is compared to DeAndre Hopkins. Obviously Hopkins is still very young and may end up with a stellar career, but being compared to Marvin Harrison surely isn't a bad thing...he's a HOF receiver who dominated the league for years.
 
Kevin White really stands out to me. The kid from Louisville stands out. Cooper doesn't show the physicality.
The Rams do have other holes to fill. They have had major problems on offense. Unsettled at QB. They haven't had a #1 WR with 1000 yards receiving. They haven't had a 1000 yard RB since SJ39. And SJ39 was getting 1000 only because he averaged 65 yards a game.
This was supposed to be a Bust thread but regarding the Rams #1 selection, If Scherf or Kevin White is not there at 10, I would trade down and take Melvin Gordon. White and Gordon to me are the 2 best offensive players in the draft. Girdon is Marcus Allen and Eddie George combined. He'll do for the Rams what Murray has done for Dallas. Tre Mason who be even more affective. Fisher likes ground and pound. He could very well be loving the opportunity to land a big time RB.
 
You want the Rams to take a RB in the first round? Yikes, that's a recipe for disaster right there. Jeebus, it's surely a good thing you aren't in a front office...you're calling Cooper a slow WR and saying he's likely to be a bust and wanna take a RB in the first round. Holy hell.
 
Lareux said:
You want the Rams to take a RB in the first round? Yikes, that's a recipe for disaster right there. Jeebus, it's surely a good thing you aren't in a front office...you're calling Cooper a slow WR and saying he's likely to be a bust and wanna take a RB in the first round. Holy hell.
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If you thought there is a HOF RB coming into this draft, you're going to pass on him because YOU want to continue follow what others are saying and doing?
Lar, you come off as a follower. A blow with the wind type fan. If I value Gordon to be a blue chip who doesn't have to take on 30 carries a game, and I'm a Jeff Fisher type coach who is about the running, why not take an impact guy over Amari Cooper who I don't think will even have an average career. This Rams team needs an impact player on offense. I don't care if it's 1st round or 7th round, take him.
 
I definitely think that there are better chances that members of the secondary taken this year are busts, like waynes, than someone like cooper
 
wiseplayer said:
If you thought there is a HOF RB coming into this draft, you're going to pass on him because YOU want to continue follow what others are saying and doing?
Lar, you come off as a follower. A blow with the wind type fan. If I value Gordon to be a blue chip who doesn't have to take on 30 carries a game, and I'm a Jeff Fisher type coach who is about the running, why not take an impact guy over Amari Cooper who I don't think will even have an average career. This Rams team needs an impact player on offense. I don't care if it's 1st round or 7th round, take him.
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No, of course, if there was a HOF RB in the draft that's a different story. Gordon isn't even the highest rated RB in this class to begin with. But that's not necessarily the point anyway....RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL today, and the game has changed to much more of a passing league so RBs value will diminish even more in the coming years you'd think.

The Rams already have 2 guys at RB who they seem to like anyway, don't they? (Stacy and Mason)

I'm also talking in generalities about RBs vs WRs in the draft, while you seem to be making it more 'personal' based on who you like. You've said that you think Cooper is slow (he isn't), and you just said you don't even think he'll have an average career in the NFL (which seems odd based on his college career and how he's perceived by the experts across the board). Sure, Gordon may very well turn out to be a stud (you can insert any RB name here)....but recent history in the draft shows that there is almost no reason to draft a RB in the first round (unless, of course, like you said he's one of those guys that everyone can see will be a complete stud and possible HOFer). That's all I was saying...I wasn't saying I don't like Gordon, I wasn't saying Gordon is going to be a bust or no good...I was simply using recent history, the direction of the NFL, and the value of WRs over RBs these days.
 
Todd Gurley...just due to injury risk in no way should he go in the first round.

Disagree on Trae Waynes being a bust.

Mike Evans didn't do anything vs LSU either and he is gonna be good in the NFL. Amari Cooper had a monster year with a future insurance salesman throwing him the ball this past season.
 
Here's the list of recent RBs taken in the 1st round of the NFL draft...

2014 no RBs in 1st round
2013 no RBs in 1st round
2012 Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson
2011 Mark Ingram
2010 CJ Spiller, Ryan Matthews, Jhavid Best
2009 Knowshon Moreno
 
Lareux said:
Here's the list of recent RBs taken in the 1st round of the NFL draft...

2014 no RBs in 1st round
2013 no RBs in 1st round
2012 Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson
2011 Mark Ingram
2010 CJ Spiller, Ryan Matthews, Jhavid Best
2009 Knowshon Moreno
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Have to say, bet all those teams would like that pick back in Hot Tub Time Machine world.
 
Here's the list of recent WRs taken in the 1st round of the NFL draft...

2014 Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks, Kelvin Benjamin
2013 Tavon Austin, DeAndre Hopkins, Cordarrelle Patterson
2012 Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright, AJ Jenkins
2011 AJ Green, Julio Jones, Jonathan Baldwin
2010 Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant
2009 Darius Heyward-Bey, Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt
 
Lareux said:
Here's the list of recent WRs taken in the 1st round of the NFL draft...

2014 Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks, Kelvin Benjamin
2013 Tavon Austin, DeAndre Hopkins, Cordarrelle Patterson
2012 Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright, AJ Jenkins
2011 AJ Green, Julio Jones, Jonathan Baldwin
2010 Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant
2009 Darius Heyward-Bey, Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt
Click to expand...

Some good/great ones in there, but also demonstrates what an inexact science it can be. 2009, 2012, 2013 classes pretty underachieving. The bountiful 2014 crop will probably lead a couple teams to reach this year. Seems to be a position you know if you hit pretty much right away.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Some good/great ones in there, but also demonstrates what an inexact science it can be. 2009, 2012, 2013 classes pretty underachieving. The bountiful 2014 crop will probably lead a couple teams to reach this year. Seems to be a position you know if you hit pretty much right away.
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Yep, for sure. The only way you may not know right away would be due to your team's QB, but I guess you'd still know if that WR is going to be great regardless of who is throwing him the ball.

I'd say the 2013 class still has potential to be great, they've only been in the league for 2 years...and Hopkins looks to be a stud, Austin hasn't been horrible, and Patterson looks like he may be a stud himself.

The 2012 class does look to be pretty meh.

The 2009 class I would agree they probably underachieved as a whole, but Crabtree was okay for SF, Maclin is the #1 guy in Philly and had a great year, Nicks did his job in NY while he was there, Britt was pretty good for a bit (but was on Tennessee), and Harvin is Harvin (he's battled some injury issues, etc...but he's not a complete bust imo).

Either way though, the WRs drafted in the 1st round over the past 6 drafts, as a whole, have vastly outperformed the RBs drafted in the 1st round over the same time period.
 
Browns busts seem position-proof. Browns just need a mole in the Pittsburgh and Baltimore draft rooms.
 
Lareux said:
Here's the list of recent RBs taken in the 1st round of the NFL draft...

2014 no RBs in 1st round
2013 no RBs in 1st round
2012 Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson
2011 Mark Ingram
2010 CJ Spiller, Ryan Matthews, Jhavid Best
2009 Knowshon Moreno
Click to expand...

Do you know how many Hall of Fame RB's have been taken in the 1st round? I don't have enough time in the day to list them. And again, what do past players results have to do with the players of this draft? NOTHING. You have to stop following trends and pay attention to skill set.
 
wiseplayer said:
Do you know how many Hall of Fame RB's have been taken in the 1st round? I don't have enough time in the day to list them. And again, what do past players results have to do with the players of this draft? NOTHING. You have to stop following trends and pay attention to skill set.
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If past players results mean nothing, what would it matter how many HOF RBs were drafted in the first round? Hahahahaha. You literally are trying to use your own logic against yourself. Wtf?

At least I'm trying to use recent history based on how the NFL has changed from a RB central league to a WR and QB league. Jesus fucking Christ, you're arguing with me just to argue at this point it seems.

My only issue with anything you've said is that you feel Cooper is a bust based on your opinion that he's not fast, which was shown to be not true.
 
wiseplayer said:
Do you know how many Hall of Fame RB's have been taken in the 1st round? I don't have enough time in the day to list them. And again, what do past players results have to do with the players of this draft? NOTHING. You have to stop following trends and pay attention to skill set.
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I'm kind of with you on Cooper, but I'm not taking a RB in the 1st round anymore. I think it will take an uncommon situation for some team to do it next. Like the next Jim Brown falling to a loaded team with a fading running back.
 
And I AM paying attention to skill set. Cooper has all of the skills a WR needs, plus he has a great work ethic and runs great routes for a college player (which isn't always the case). Most think he's literally the "can't miss" guy in this draft class...others may have higher ceilings if they pan out, but Cooper has a much higher floor than most everyone else because he's already NFL ready based on his route running and preparation.
 
Wise, you've also done this before...where you say something outlandish, get a rise out of people, and then argue until you're blue in the face. The last time was when you said FSU would be double digit faves over anyone in the CFB playoff...not only weren't they double digit faves and not even faves at all, but were 9 or dogs. Can we use past history about outlandish comments? Your history isn't good in that respect.
 
Watkins would look good on the Browns.

He seems a little more physical (stronger?) than Cooper. (Don't crucify me for the eye test.)
 
tipyerbartender said:
Watkins would look good on the Browns.

He seems a little more physical (stronger?) than Cooper. (Don't crucify me for the eye test.)
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He very well may be more physical, not sure. I just saw an article comparing the 2 and they are, again, pretty much carbon copies.
 
Keep in mind the first time I "scouted" Watkins, he killed tOSU in some crappy bowl. He seemed pretty physical that day.
 
Great stuff Bar. I would want a scouting department full guys like Lar. If they're going to base their selections off of past trends, then I'll make out like a bandit. IMO, Melvin Gordon is going to be a big time RB. I don't know the character of the guy so that could be an issue, but tLent wise, he's legit big time.
 
Lareux said:
If past players results mean nothing, what would it matter how many HOF RBs were drafted in the first round? Hahahahaha. You literally are trying to use your own logic against yourself. Wtf?

At least I'm trying to use recent history based on how the NFL has changed from a RB central league to a WR and QB league. Jesus fucking Christ, you're arguing with me just to argue at this point it seems.

My only issue with anything you've said is that you feel Cooper is a bust based on your opinion that he's not fast, which was shown to be not true.
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Using the name Jesus Christ in vane already tells me what a donkey you are. I'm not using my logic against myself. You're the fool who posted the few RB's who have been average as 1st rounders. I'm just telling you, that idiotic logic is out the window based on the numerous 1st round HOFers there are.
Lar, will you join my fantasy league? We need more donators like you.
:rofl:
 
wiseplayer said:
Using the name Jesus Christ in vane already tells me what a donkey you are. I'm not using my logic against myself. You're the fool who posted the few RB's who have been average as 1st rounders. I'm just telling you, that idiotic logic is out the window based on the numerous 1st round HOFers there are.
Lar, will you join my fantasy league? We need more donators like you.
:rofl:
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Why did this become personal for you?

The only reason I posted the recent RBs and WRs drafted in the 1st round was to show how it's changed in the NFL. And it clearly has. I'm not sure if you don't see it, or you're just being difficult.

I also don't believe in God, so me using JC's name "in vain" is 100% facetious. If you paid any attention around CTG, you'd know that though...it's certainly not a knock on me the way you're trying to make it out to be.

I didn't simply post the "few RBs" who have been average....I posted the 1st round picks from the last 6 years....AGAIN, since the NFL has changed drastically. RBs are a dime a dozen nowadays. Do you not think that's the case?

Oh, and just because you brought it up, sure I'd love to join your fantasy league. Last year I had Luck, Murray, McCoy, Jordy and Maclin on my team. I lost in the Finals, but you're clearly waaaaay off about me.

It's also vain, not vane. :o
 
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B.A.R. said:
Hall of famers by round from 1936-1997....you can do your own math...
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I agree, good stuff BAR. But, this is through 1997, and anyone who's been paying attention knows that the NFL has clearly moved to a passing league. This list is completely meaningless, especially since Wise already said that it makes no sense, in his opinion, to base anything on what's happened in the past.

Wise, how are you not using your own logic against you when you point out HOF RBs that have been drafted in the 1st round? And, before you say it again, that logic isn't out the window since the NFL has changed and RBs are a dime a dozen and WRs are what NFL teams covet nowadays.

I just don't understand how this turned into what it's become. It's pretty much known that drafting a RB in the round is nowhere near ideal anymore. And yes, if there is that "stud" out there, of course a team would take him in the 1st round. But it's been brought up in numerous threads, by numerous people on here, that teams are not looking to draft RBs in the 1st round anymore....what makes you think that's not true?
 
B.A.R. said:
Hall of famers by round from 1936-1997....you can do your own math...
Click to expand...

And, just so we're all clear....there are only 10 RBs on that list since 1967 who were drafted in the 1st round. There have been 5 since 1977....only FIVE RBs since 1977 have been drafted in the 1st round and are now in the HOF.

I'm not sure that list proves your point AT ALL Wise. In fact, it may have just killed the point altogether. Not to mention, I agreed with you that if there was a RB worthy of "HOF talk" that he should clearly be taken in the 1st round.

I would also just say that based on what NFL teams have done recently (NOT ONE RB drafted in the 1st round in the past 2 years) tells you everything you need to know about teams' mentalities these days.
 
wiseplayer said:
Great stuff Bar. I would want a scouting department full guys like Lar. If they're going to base their selections off of past trends, then I'll make out like a bandit. IMO, Melvin Gordon is going to be a big time RB. I don't know the character of the guy so that could be an issue, but tLent wise, he's legit big time.
Click to expand...

Past trends? You're the one who's brought up RBs in the 1st round and how great they've been....that was DECADES ago. I have shown VERY recent history, and how the league has changed. Again, it seems like you're using your own logic against yourself (unintentionally, of course).

I haven't once said that Gordon won't be a stud in the NFL. I hope he is, I like him a lot. That still doesn't mean he should be drafted in the 1st round...and certainly not by a team with 2 RBs they already like, and glaring needs at other positions.

Why did you gloss over the point about how far off you were about FSU and the lines for the CFP this year? You have a history of making foolish statements that are proven to not only be foolish, but 100% incorrect.
 
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If the Lions take a RB or TE in the first round he will surely bust.


But in this class i think there will be plenty of busts at o-line with all of these tweeter tackles with upside. Same for the DE/OLB position. Guys like Beasley, Gregory, Ray, Fowler, etc, i say about half are solid. Some will go Aaron Maybin/Dion Jordan. I hate tall lean DE's. Jason Taylor was the exception.
 
detroit187 said:
If the Lions take a RB or TE in the first round he will surely bust.


But in this class i think there will be plenty of busts at o-line with all of these tweeter tackles with upside. Same for the DE/OLB position. Guys like Beasley, Gregory, Ray, Fowler, etc, i say about half are solid. Some will go Aaron Maybin/Dion Jordan. I hate tall lean DE's. Jason Taylor was the exception.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, good ol' Aaron Maybin...damn Bills were the ones who ended up drafting him. All he wanted to do was paint (Hard Knocks). Rex Ryan somehow got some good production out of him when he went to the Jets.
 
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