FS1, Lara/Canelo PPV + Undercard

I thought it was an absolute horseshit fight. Absolute joke to be on PPV especially when we consider REAL Mexican fighters who can deliver on the highest level. Canelo is a total fucking joke.
 
God damn, Jab and I could not call it better how Lara's defensive style is not conducive to judging. ESPECIALLY against a guy like Canelo who literally wins every close round.
 
Lets be honest though, a real fight is in two weeks. GGG v Geale. Probably Geale's murder, but at least we know he's going to show up for a war.
 
Pull it back a bit I can understand how Levi Martinez scored the fight like he did, based on his philosophy of course. I talked to him for half an hour in Omaha about his judging, he professes the aggressor and harder puncher wins the round. He also talked about how important body punching is to him and how often it is under scored. When I asked him about ring generalship he said, "doesn't matter, no one knows what it is and you shouldn't score it"

I don't agree with his card though.
 
Turkas said:
Pull it back a bit I can understand how Levi Martinez scored the fight like he did, based on his philosophy of course. I talked to him for half an hour in Omaha about his judging, he professes the aggressor and harder puncher wins the round. He also talked about how important body punching is to him and how often it is under scored. When I asked him about ring generalship he said, "doesn't matter, no one knows what it is and you shouldn't score it"

I don't agree with his card though.
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Outstanding fucking point here. I am an absolute FIRM BELIEVER that ring generalship is complete fucking bullshit. I want to see the guy who lands the more damaging blows in a fight. I think without question Canelo's body work was the more damaging work in this fight. I'm drunk now but will watch tomorrow morning in a replay but the man who had 20 lbs night of the fight had the clear punching advantage.
 
Son_of_Balrog said:
Outstanding fucking point here. I am an absolute FIRM BELIEVER that ring generalship is complete fucking bullshit. I want to see the guy who lands the more damaging blows in a fight. I think without question Canelo's body work was the more damaging work in this fight. I'm drunk now but will watch tomorrow morning in a replay but the man who had 20 lbs night of the fight had the clear punching advantage.
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That's my whole thing, the 10 point must system is so subjective and every state teaches it differently. Vegas precesses things like ring generalship, but smaller fight states like NM and Minnesota are more to the point with the harder puncher winning the round.

I will say this, judges are what they are. The biggest problem is a flawed fucking system coupled with 50 different commissions training judges 50 different ways. We won't see any continuity until we at least see a national commission.
 
Ten point must system is the absolute fucking worst. I beg for the old school days where the judges only rewarded a round to the CLEAR winner of it. Why is it such a bad thing to hear a score card of 5-2 with 5 even? Can we please just go back to rounds that are clearly won by fighters?
 
Son_of_Balrog said:
Ten point must system is the absolute fucking worst. I beg for the old school days where the judges only rewarded a round to the CLEAR winner of it. Why is it such a bad thing to hear a score card of 5-2 with 5 even? Can we please just go back to rounds that are clearly won by fighters?
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I don't agree with even rounds because I think a winner can always be determined no matter how close it is, but this reminds me of another great Levi Martinez quote.

"You have 3 judges for a reason, and that is the scoring system allows different views"
 
The wife has cut me off, now all I have to do is eat this left over chipotle an troll twitter. :shocked:
 
rewatched it this morning. lara shoulda teed off more often in the later rounds, i don't think canelo won the fight, i really don't. levi martinez is full of shit and an embarrassment. lara's problem is a lot of people don't like his style, i do. i like it a lot. the body work that he let canelo put in really made the difference. i just think it's a shame when you have two judges who understand ring generalship, and levi martinez, who doesn't even fucking believe in it. how the hell are we supposed to have a good decision when there's such a difference in approaching the actual scoring?

i know i'm not saying anything that hasn't been said, and we deal with this shit as boxing fans on the regular, but gimme a break. canelo can't fight slick boxers, he just isn't that good yet. maybe he will when he's older, but as of now, he's just an inexperienced mexican puncher-kinda except he doesn't have enough power or throw enough punches to really be considered a mexican straight ahead guy. i dunno man, i'm kinda more disappointed in canelo than anything. nothing surprising happened in this fight, lara did what we all thought he was gonna do, and canelo just wasn't fast enough or smart enough to cut off the ring and make him trade. hope the kid really grows into a legit PPV guy, but the ginger just ain't there yet.
 
also woke up this morning wondering where who drank all my beer. wife informed me that i was the only one drinking last night. whoops.
 
Elbutre88 said:
rewatched it this morning. lara shoulda teed off more often in the later rounds, i don't think canelo won the fight, i really don't. levi martinez is full of shit and an embarrassment. lara's problem is a lot of people don't like his style, i do. i like it a lot. the body work that he let canelo put in really made the difference. i just think it's a shame when you have two judges who understand ring generalship, and levi martinez, who doesn't even fucking believe in it. how the hell are we supposed to have a good decision when there's such a difference in approaching the actual scoring?

i know i'm not saying anything that hasn't been said, and we deal with this shit as boxing fans on the regular, but gimme a break. canelo can't fight slick boxers, he just isn't that good yet. maybe he will when he's older, but as of now, he's just an inexperienced mexican puncher-kinda except he doesn't have enough power or throw enough punches to really be considered a mexican straight ahead guy. i dunno man, i'm kinda more disappointed in canelo than anything. nothing surprising happened in this fight, lara did what we all thought he was gonna do, and canelo just wasn't fast enough or smart enough to cut off the ring and make him trade. hope the kid really grows into a legit PPV guy, but the ginger just ain't there yet.
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Well said. I'll catch the 11am replay and score it sober. Canelo should be ashamed. He basically gets to pick a weight he can make and maintain his huge weight advantage over guys at 154 and still gasses hard in fights and still cant impose his physicality on slick boxers. He needs to move up to middleweight where there are outstanding slug fests waiting for him.
 
Austin Trout's post that started the convo:

"I called it!! Lara outboxes Canelo and gets KO'd by scorecards. I am Disowning Levi Martinez' connection to Las Cruces!!!"
 
Son_of_Balrog said:
I thought it was an absolute horseshit fight. Absolute joke to be on PPV especially when we consider REAL Mexican fighters who can deliver on the highest level. Canelo is a total fucking joke.
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you are better than this.....what are you talking about?

if you wana say the weight, MAYBE,,,,,however it is the current state you should be mad at
 
All in all it was a close fight, and Lara did himself no favors by being very inactive in the middle rounds whilst moving along the ropes while not being in a conventional boxing stance. I don't think he was running like a lot people call it, but I wouldn't call that scoreable ring generalship either.

Simply put he gave away too many rounds because of inactivity. At points he was simply letting Canelo get away with throwing 1 or 2 punches at a time and you can't do that.

The problem with boxing judges, and all judges are guilty of this, is no one follows the scoring system how it is supposed to be scored. All four parts of the scoring system are supported to be equal or in other words worth 25% each. No one does this, nobody. Hell, no one teaches this either. With all the wrongs of the 10 point must system, and there are a lot, something Dennis Nelson told me 2 weeks ago makes a lot of sense out of all of this. Basically he said there are 3 judges for a reason, like in everything in life people have off nights and it's true in judging, but that's why there are 3 instead of 1. 9 times out of 10 those judges in some combination whether it's all three or just two of them get it right. And I firmly believe this. Last night Levi was way off, I think everyone agrees with that, but the other 2 got it spot on with close scores that could go either way. It sucks a bad card decided it, but I felt the right guy won. So did the majority of people ring side.
 
twinkie13 said:
you are better than this.....what are you talking about?

if you wana say the weight, MAYBE,,,,,however it is the current state you should be mad at
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I think he competes with and possibly beats any of the top 154lbers and middle weights not named Mayweather. To me that means he is a pretty damn good fighter.
 
Was on Lara and scored the fight 115-113 Canelo. After first two cards were read thought I was going to get a draw. Decision was a good one. Lara gave away rds 5-9 then tried to play catchup.

Said part about the whole thing is almost everyone gave Lara the 10th rd. One judge scored it Canelo. Had he scored it right, Lara gets the SD
 
twinkie13 said:
you are better than this.....what are you talking about?

if you wana say the weight, MAYBE,,,,,however it is the current state you should be mad at
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Definitely was drunken end of night rambling nonsense by me. I still stand by it being a pretty awful fight, but not because of Canelo. He came forward the entire fight and just ran into Lara being Lara. I agree 100 % Canelo definitely takes on the top guys but they are guys he has very clear weight advantages against. He's a middleweight at this point in his career and should be fighting at that weight. Showtime had him at a day of weight of 171 but he easily looked 175+ while i re-watched yesterday. I scored 115-113 Canelo on sober viewing FWIW.
 
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Turkas said:
I think he competes with and possibly beats any of the top 154lbers and middle weights not named Mayweather. To me that means he is a pretty damn good fighter.
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There are several middleweights I'd love to see take on Canelo that IMO would be pick 'em fights at best for him. GGG, Cotto, and Quillin, should all be favored against Canelo and I'd be shocked to see otherwise. It's easier to win in a weaker division (154 lbs) when you have a significant weight advantage over everyone in the division on top of the talent Canelo clearly has. And if Canelo doesn't want to take on the guys similar to his size at 160 the super fight with Cotto for the lineal title could be made.
 
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Son_of_Balrog said:
Definitely was drunken end of night rambling nonsense by me. I still stand by it being a pretty awful fight, but not because of Canelo. He came forward the entire fight and just ran into Lara being Lara. I agree 100 % Canelo definitely takes on the top guys but they are guys he has very clear weight advantages against. He's a middleweight at this point in his career and should be fighting at that weight. Showtime had him at a day of weight of 171 but he easily looked 175+ while i re-watched yesterday. I scored 115-113 Canelo on sober viewing FWIW.
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Lara was a very dangerous fight for him and he took it....so was Trout

And he fought Mayweather

Not sure what else the guy can do.....again the weight thing may be an issue, but that is a boxing issue...not a Canelo issue

But I hear ya:cheers:
 
Canelo took a lot of shit for fighting guys he shouldn't have been fighting (Hatton, Josesito, Cintron, etc.). He did fight a lot of no hopers and he took crap for it. Since then, he's ran off Trout (who had just cleanly beaten Cotto), Floyd, Angulo, and Lara. That's a pretty solid lineup by anyone's standards.

Now there's talk of Kirkland (dangerous for a few rounds) and then Cotto. He's definitely not shying away from anyone.
 
twinkie13 said:
Lara was a very dangerous fight for him and he took it....so was Trout

And he fought Mayweather

Not sure what else the guy can do.....again the weight thing may be an issue, but that is a boxing issue...not a Canelo issue

But I hear ya:cheers:
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We're for sure on the same page here and I have no idea why I was ripping on Canelo late Saturday night. He was tired of Lara's twitter bullshit, gave him the fight, showed up to fight, and then had to chase Lara around the ring the entire night. Angulo laid out the blueprint on how to beat Lara. Canelo showed up implementing that game plan and when Lara got a taste for Canelo's power on the inside he wanted no part of that type of fight. Funny, saying you're going to break Canelo's face before the fight and then fighting the way you did night of.

Guess the weight issue and the way the fight played out really left a sour taste in my mouth but Canelo should only take the blame in half of that equation. I know I've been sour on the kid in the past for receiving ridiculous judging decisions in the Trout and Mayweather fights but that is no fault of his. Canelo normally shows up ready for a war and has proven recently he's willing to take on all comers. I definitely give him credit for that.

He's a great young fighter who has the right mentality and I think a lot of the contract and weight bullshit might come from his handlers and promoter steering him that way. Kid is only 23 years old and I think as he ages he'll do the right thing when it comes to honoring the defined limits of the weight class.
 
Son_of_Balrog said:
There are several middleweights I'd love to see take on Canelo that IMO would be pick 'em fights at best for him. GGG, Cotto, and Quillin, should all be favored against Canelo and I'd be shocked to see otherwise. It's easier to win in a weaker division (154 lbs) when you have a significant weight advantage over everyone in the division on top of the talent Canelo clearly has. And if Canelo doesn't want to take on the guys similar to his size at 160 the super fight with Cotto for the lineal title could be made.
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I agree they are favored, but he competes with all of them IMO, that was my point.
 
FYI, Mayweather Maidana 2 tickets go on sale tomorrow at 1 PM EST. Just letting anyone interested know.
 
twinkie13 said:
I love Maidana. He really brought it that night and always does....what a lucky fuck though getting the rematch
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With Khan not being able to go because of Ramadan (and it being a joke for him to get the fight) and Pacman obviously never happening who else is there? No way Floyd takes a chance on another Cotto fight seeing as how he is basically a reborn killer with Roach in his corner. Porter and Thurman are probably both a year away from being marketable enough for Floyd to justify the risk. Maidana is pretty much the only guy they could drum up a promotional angle that could generate the million + buys Showtime needs to be profitable from a Mayweather PPV excluding the big three (Pacman / Canelo / Cotto). Only other guys I could see would be Bradley or D Garcia. Would they generate any more than the 800k ish buys Maidana did? I can guarantee you both would end up being much less entertaining fights.
 
twinkie13 said:
much rather see Danny get the fight
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You, me, and just about every fight fan want to see that fight. Too bad Haymon and GB think a complete jobber in Rod Salka is the right fight for the arguable lineal 140 title holder. I've seen Goldberg have tougher jobber match ups from the WCW Nitro days than this dumpster fire of a fight.
 
So much for getting even any shot at a playable Mayweather line. I didn't catch the opener but he's -800 on 5dimes right now.
 
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