dial's hit on murray

[Tide High]

Lol @ Luck referencing the clock running out.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

I'm curious as to what made Murray defenseless?

It's not as if he was in the act of throwing or catching the ball when he was hit

This how the rule book defines a "defenseless player."

Rule 2 Section 27 Article 14

a. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
b. A receiver whose focus is on catching a pass.
c. A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball.
d. A kick returner whose focus is on catching or recovering a kick in the air.
e. A player on the ground at the end of a play.
f. A player obviously out of the play.

The only subsection that could have any application to this play whatsoever is subsection f. The only time I've ever seen subsection f applied is when a player gets trucked 20 yards behind the play. I certainly have never seen it applied on a hit to potential tackler ahead of the play, and simple logic finds that it shouldn't. Doing so makes a mockery of the word "obviously" and essentially renders it nugatory. Making the assertion that Murray was "obviously" out of the play seems like a pretty large stretch to me.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

At around the 2:10 mark Aaron Murray say Dial did not hit him in the head. Said the hit just knocked the wind out of him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pCwe4Hov1I

 

[RetroVK]

I guess some of us are arguing different things ... I could care less at this point if it is a penalty ... I certainly don't think that hit is enough to suspend someone for the Championship game after he has worked a long career in the sport. That would be an excessive punishment. If you had to go suspension route then it should be a quarter or something.

All i am saying is that it was a clear dirty play .. a cheap shot ... bush league .. whatever you want to call it..... Have to call them the way you see them and anyone who watches that and doesn't think it is a cheap shot doesn't know much about football or has an alterior motive.

 

[RetroVK]

At around the 2:10 mark Aaron Murray say Dial did not hit him in the head. Said the hit just knocked the wind out of him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pCwe4Hov1I

So he was concussed after all? Because he is clearly hit in the head.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

So he was concussed after all? Because he is clearly hit in the head.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

I guess some of us are arguing different things ... I could care less at this point if it is a penalty ... I certainly don't think that hit is enough to suspend someone for the Championship game after he has worked a long career in the sport. That would be an excessive punishment. If you had to go suspension route then it should be a quarter or something.

All i am saying is that it was a clear dirty play .. a cheap shot ... bush league .. whatever you want to call it..... Have to call them the way you see them and anyone who watches that and doesn't think it is a cheap shot doesn't know much about football or has an alterior motive.

The question of legality turns on whether Murray is considered a "defenseless" player by rule. If he was "defenseless" player than the hit is illegal. If he is not considered a "defenseless" player by rule, than the hit is legal.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

The embarrassing thing is the lack of policing by the Georgia team. That guy should have had his knees dived at until his acl was ruined after that. Dawgs showed no pride.

It wasn't for lack of trying.

Funny how you are soooooo incensed by a hit that was at worst borderline illegal, while Sheldon Davis gouging Dee Milliner's eye and Bacarri Rambo trying to break the ankles of Yeldon, Lacy and McCarron doesn't seem to impinge upon your conscience in the least. The degree of culpibility between Dial hit and the actions of Davis and Rambo are not even in the same universe.

It is well known that Georgia is one of the dirtiest team in the SEC. Year after year they lead the conference in personal foul and unsportsman-like conduct penalities. Before the game I predicted they would have at least three. They only had two called on them, but it easily could have been 7 or 8. The only personal foul penalty called on Alabama was the Milliner eye gouging incident which of course was patently absurd. Not only should Davis have been flagged for the incident, he should have been ejected from the game, be suspended by the league, and be charged criminally. Conversely, Alabama is once again the cleanest team in the SEC followed closely by Mississippi State, Kentucky and Mississippi.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

Dwight,

one simple question for ya: Was Murray hit from the front as to where he saw Dial coming directly across the way?

Whether Murray saw it coming or not is completely irrelevant to the inquiry. The only question is whether Murray is consider, by rule, a "defenseless player." Seeing or not seeing a player coming is not part of the rule.

 

[RetroVK]

It wasn't for lack of trying.

Funny how you are soooooo incensed by a hit that was at worst borderline illegal, while Sheldon Davis gouging Dee Milliner's eye and Bacarri Rambo trying to break the ankles of Yeldon, Lacy and McCarron doesn't seem to impinge upon your conscience in the least. The degree of culpibility between Dial hit and the actions of Davis and Rambo are not even in the same universe.

It is well known that Georgia is one of the dirtiest team in the SEC. Year after year they lead the conference in personal foul and unsportsman-like conduct penalities. Before the game I predicted they would have at least three. They only had two called on them, but it easily could have been 7 or 8. The only personal foul penalty called on Alabama was the Milliner eye gouging incident which of course was patently absurd. Not only should Davis have been flagged for the incident, he should have been ejected from the game, be suspended by the league, and be charged criminally. Conversely, Alabama is once again the cleanest team in the SEC followed closely by Mississippi State, Kentucky and Mississippi.

The thread was on the Dial hit .. I would need to see the other cheap shots to comment on them. I only saw parts of the game.

I am certainly not incensed by the hit or lack of a call .. I could honestly care less. I am merely pointing out it is a bush league play and any criticism he gets for making that play is warranted.

I hope you don't condone what Dial did there, legal or no.

 

[Aztec4Life]

Oh shit i'm playing football bam

LOL LOL

 

[Carolina Guy]

And I havent listened to finebaum in 5 years

Funny. That's what everyone in his listening area says. :rolleyes:

 

[Carolina Guy]

So you can only block players that are looking at the blocker? Murray got hit from the front. Murray's head was turned toward he player he might have to try to tackle, but its not like Dial hit him from behind. Im ok calling it helmet to helmet. But if you're talking suspension, then Ogletree has to sit too.

Funny that the only person not complaining about the block is Murray.

Lol. You guys are the Dallas Cowboy fans of college. No question about it.

 

[Carolina Guy]

Whether Murray saw it coming or not is completely irrelevant to the inquiry. The only question is whether Murray is consider, by rule, a "defenseless player." Seeing or not seeing a player coming is not part of the rule.

Fine. It was helmet2helmet. The rule was made b/tn the 2011 and 2012 seasons. Move the F on.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

The thread was on the Dial hit .. I would need to see the other cheap shots to comment on them. I only saw parts of the game.

I am certainly not incensed by the hit or lack of a call .. I could honestly care less. I am merely pointing out it is a bush league play and any criticism he gets for making that play is warranted.

I hope you don't condone what Dial did there, legal or no.

Fair enough.

If the hit is legal, then I condone it. If the hit is not legal, then I don't condone it.

On the question of legality even SEC coordinator of officials Steve Shaw seems conflicted. On one hand he says (per the article I linked in post #27) that "Dial should have been penalized," and "We [the SEC officiating crew] missed the call." On the other hand he said exactly what I have said elsewhere in this thread which the the legality of the hit turns on whether Murray can be classified by, rule a defenseless player. With respect to this Shaw said:

"By rule, you can't hit a defenseless player above the shoulders. What the determination needs to be is was this a defenseless player and was contact initiated above the shoulders? When we go through video review of it, that's what we'll have to determine. And then you as you break it down, did he lead with the head or lead with the shoulder?"

In other words, Shaw said the hit was illegal thus tacitly concluding Murray was in fact a "defenseless player," yet in a logic defying twist says a determination must still be made on whether Murray should be afforded "defenseless player" protection. Which is it??? If it is determined that Murray was a defenseless player, then the play should have been flagged and the call was missed. If it is determined that Murray was not a defenseless player, then the play was legal. In my personal opinion, as I stated above, affording Murray "defenseless player" status under subsection f of the rule is a stretch to say the least.

I will go alone with whatever the league concludes, and at this point they appear to be taking the position that the hit was illegal. Thus I don't condone the play. Should the league decide to reverse themselves in the future, however, I reserve the right to do the same.

 

[Jimmydafreak]

Fine. It was helmet2helmet. The rule was made b/tn the 2011 and 2012 seasons. Move the F on.

Helmet-to-helmet contact occurs on almost evey play of a football game. It is not per se illegal. By rule it is only illegal in two circumstances. The first is hitting with the crown of the helmet which didn't occur on this play. The second is if the player being hit qualifies as a "defenseless player." Therefore, if the helmet-to-helmet contact was initiated against a "defenseless player," the play is illegal. If the helmet-to-helmet contact was initiated against a player who is not afforded "defenseless player" status under the rule, then the hit was legal assuming (as in this case) the helmet-to-helmet contact was not done using the crown of the helmet.

 

[RetroVK]

Dial is a coward. Could give two shits what the SEC says about it.

 

[Tide High]

Funny. That's what everyone in his listening area says. :rolleyes:

u must come around here way a lot. hit me up next time you're in town. we can hang out from 2-6 in my office where i don't have radio.

 

[Tide High]

Lol. You guys are the Dallas Cowboy fans of college. No question about it.

I guess that make you guys the Jacksonville Jaguar fans of college?

 

[Jimmydafreak]

Dial is a coward. Could give two shits what the SEC says about it.

Why??? For making a routine play that every coach in America teaches???