Cutler

[braves]

because there is a salary cap, that's why. 6 of the 12 playoff teams, including the favorite, have young quarterbacks on extremely cheap deals, allowing them to spend elsewhere (Wilson, Kaepernick, Newton, Foles, Dalton, Luck). 4 have some of the best QBs of all time (Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning), where the large investment pays off. 2 have mediocre QBs (Smith, Rivers) making a sizable salary and frankly aren't expected to do much in the playoffs.

so what happens when Wilson's deal runs out? Are you going advocate not paying him?, Because he is going to command top dollar

Id much rather take my chances with Cutler, then trying to draft a qb and hope that he pans out. Just me though

 

[braves]

it's the safer route.

 

[orangemonk]

so what happens when Wilson's deal runs out? Are you going advocate not paying him?, Because he is going to command top dollar

Id much rather take my chances with Cutler, then trying to draft a qb and hope that he pans out. Just me though

Wilson is much younger and has much higher upside than Cutler.

Bears could've franchised Cutler. They could've let him walk and gone with McCown, who proved completely competent in that offense, probably even more so than Cutler. They could've done so many things better with that money than give Cutler a 7 year deal.

 

[Detox]

McCown also said like 2 weeks ago he was thinking about retiring

I have no problem with this deal, as with all NFL contracts they probably have an opt out after 3 or 4 years

he was top 10 in completion and yp/a this year and his weapons are only going to keep getting better with Alshon turning in to an elite guy

don't understand why the NFC North teams are happy with it either, only one with a QB better is GB, Stafford hasn't proven to be any better

This. Plus there's nobody else out there. Bill Polian said Chicago has the quarterback whisperer on the coaching staff and expects Cutler to step it up.

 

[orangemonk]

you think if the Bears are offering McCown the starting gig he's gonna retire?

 

[orangemonk]

and not that you want to manage by the fans, but sooooo many would've loved to see cutler go. most wanted to stay with McCown once Cutler was back. People hate him here.

 

[Lareux]

and not that you want to manage by the fans, but sooooo many would've loved to see cutler go. most wanted to stay with McCown once Cutler was back. People hate him here.

If NFL teams (or any pro sports team) did the opposite of what fans were clamoring for, they would be ahead in the long run. I understand the argument may be that the fans would stop supporting the team if they did that, but they will still come to the games and support the team as they always did. My point is that fans are usually wrong, so doing the opposite would be positive EV in the long run.

 

[braves]

i guess you have much more faith in Mccown than I do.

Bears imo took the much safer and better option

 

[nbafan88]

and not that you want to manage by the fans, but sooooo many would've loved to see cutler go. most wanted to stay with McCown once Cutler was back. People hate him here.

wtf does that matter?

 

[orangemonk]

I know, I'm just saying they weren't pleasing the fans by locking up Cutler, like the Ravens did with Flacco. They wouldn't have gotten the fan base up in a storm be letting him go, rather they probably would've pleased them.

 

[orangemonk]

wtf does that matter?

how does it not? fan reaction is a huge part of every deal in sports. you think Steinbrenner would've signed John Rocker in 2000?

 

[braves]

Now that the NFL season has ended, everyone in Chicago has started the annual rite of passage - praising the back-up quarterback and throwing away the starter.
This year, Jay Cutler missed significant time with a couple injuries, opening the door for Josh McCown to look good enough that many fans have gone as far as to say he could/should be back as the Bears' starting quarterback for the 2014 season.
While there are certainly flaws in Cutler's game that open the door for debate about him being the long-term answer under center for the Bears, the merits of any discussion including McCown as a potential starter in 2014 are questionable at best.
McCown had a nice season for the Bears, that isn't being denied here. But many are ignoring the realities of McCown's season for the sake of hating on Cutler.
Simply put: McCown played bad teams and did well. He took the majority of the snaps for the Bears against only one playoff team (the Packers in early November), and put up nice numbers against some of the worst pass defenses in the NFL.
Here's the reality of McCown's season:
October 20 @ Washington (45-41 loss)
McCown: 14-20, 204 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 119.6 Passer Rating
Washington Pass Defense:
96.1 Passer Rating against - 27th in the NFL
3,896 pass yards against - 20th in the NFL
29 pass TD against - 21st in NFL (tie)
36 sacks - 21st in the NFL (tie)
November 4 @ Green Bay (27-20 win)
McCown: 22-41, 272 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 90.7 Passer Rating
Green Bay Pass Defense:
95.9 Passer Rating against - 25th in the NFL
3,956 pass yards against - 24th in the NFL
30 pass TD against - 27th in the NFL (tie)
44 sacks - 8th in the NFL (tie)
November 17 vs Baltimore (23-20 OT win)
McCown: 19-31, 216 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 92.9 Passer Rating
Baltimore Pass Defense:
82.2 Passer Rating against - 11th in the NFL
3,681 pass yards against - 12th in the NFL
25 pass TD against - 14th in the NFL (tie)
40 sacks - 16th in the NFL (tie)
November 24 @ St. Louis (42-21 loss)
McCown: 36-47, 352 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 102.4 Passer Rating
St. Louis Pass Defense:
94.7 Passer Rating against - 24th in the NFL
3,874 pass yards against - 19th in the NFL
21 pass TD against - 7th in the NFL (tie)
53 sacks - 3rd in the NFL
December 1 @ Minnesota (23-20 OT loss)
McCown: 23-36, 355 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 114.9 Passer Rating
Minnesota Pass Defense:
98.6 Passer Rating against - 30th in the NFL
4,598 pass yards against - 31st in the NFL
37 pass TD against - 32nd in the NFL
41 sacks - 13th in the NFL (tie)
December 9 vs Dallas (45-28 win)
McCown: 27-36, 348 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT, 141.9 Passer Rating
Dallas Pass Defense:
96.0 Passer Rating against - 26th in the NFL
4,589 pass yards against - 30th in the NFL
33 pass TD against - 30th in the NFL (tie)
34 sacks - 25th in the NFL (tie)

Jay Cutler faced <small style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">(Passer Rating against NFL rank)</small>:
Cincinnati - 2
Minnesota - 30
@ Pittsburgh - 12
@ Detroit - 19
New Orleans - 14
NY Giants - 6
Detroit - 19
@ Cleveland - 16
@ Philadelphia - 15
Green Bay - 25
Cutler faced two of the top ten pass defenses in the NFL, and four more against teams that finished in the upper-half of the league in pass defense. The Saints (2), Bengals (5), Browns (8), Steelers (9) and Giants (10) were among the top 10 teams in average passing yards against per game in the NFL this season as well.
In McCown's six games, he faced only one team - the Ravens - that finished consistently in the upper-half of the NFL in pass defense. Indeed, five of the six teams McCown played against finished in the bottom ten of the league in Passer Rating against; he had a big day against those teams, but everyonedid.
Many will immediately point to Cutler's 12 interceptions against McCown's one.
Again, the season-long stats indicate that stat shouldn't be the basis of praise of McCown. Of the six teams that McCown faced, the Ravens and Redskins tied for the highest interception total on the season at 16 - or one per game - and they ranked 15th in the NFL.
Cutler, on the other hand, faced three teams in the upper half of the league in interceptions: the Bengals (5), Eagles (8) and Giants (12). Of course, the counter-argument is that Cutler was personally responsible for four of the Lions' 15 total interceptions this season in only two games, and the Browns picked off Cutler twice but had only 12 in their other 15 games.
If Cutler had played complete games against the pass defenses that McCown faced, would the discussion be different? If Cutler had accounted for most/all of the Bears' 4,450 passing yards and 32 touchdowns, would fans be as unhappy with the team's quarterback situation today?
Probably not... because the Bears defense sucked

 

[guaranteeed]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-million-with-year-to-year-option-thereafter/

so its essentially a 3 year deal with 4 team options

Under three years of the franchise tag, Cutler would have earned more than $60 million. He therefore reduced by more than 10 percent his total haul in exchange for shedding the injury risk.Cutler also has shifted most of the risk of poor performance, with the Bears most likely to pay him $48 million over two years.
Is it the best possible deal Cutler could have done? No. But it’s a very good deal under the circumstances, it keeps him in Chicago for the next three years at $18 million annually, and it gives the Bears the annual right thereafter to decide whether to keep him or to walk away.

 

[Alan Tongue]

Average QB. Should be getting average QB money

 

[deuce's wild]

Arguably the best most talented receiving corp in the league and can't do anything with it.

He sucks.

coming from a browns fan - you wouldn't take cutler on the Browns? gimme a break

 

[deuce's wild]

Their QB still isn't in the top 15. They have a guy that proved he could play within the system. There was little risk pairing McCown with a top draft pick. There's a lot of risk giving Cutler that much money to do the same job that a guy making a quarter of what he makes can do.

Cutler not top 15 come on man thats just nonsense - you cant tell me Stafford's any better.

 

[deuce's wild]

Wilson is much younger and has much higher upside than Cutler.

Bears could've franchised Cutler. They could've let him walk and gone with McCown, who proved completely competent in that offense, probably even more so than Cutler. They could've done so many things better with that money than give Cutler a 7 year deal.

Franchising him would have been the biggest blunder the bears could have made - tie all the salary cap money up in 1 YEAR and not have cap space available to upgrade the defense (which side note was the teams biggest problem this year)........take McCown as your starter in Detroit he would be an upgrade over Stafford. The deal for Cutler is a 3-4 deal and is salary cap friendly, after year 4 they can cut ties and move on.

Personally I think with another year under Trestman's system he will be fine. Remember he has not had any stability at the offensive coordinator position since he came to Chicago.

 

[STEED]

coming from a browns fan - you wouldn't take cutler on the Browns? gimme a break

Huh? Where did I say I wouldnt take Cutler on the Browns? That's entirely irrelevant to the discussion lol the Browns and the Bears are two different teams.

Not to mention I just got done saying he's a Top 15 QB and we all known Weeden isn't a Top 50...

:thinking:

 

[deuce's wild]

and not that you want to manage by the fans, but sooooo many would've loved to see cutler go. most wanted to stay with McCown once Cutler was back. People hate him here.

These same idiots i hope realize we use to have guys like Grossman, Krenzl, Moses Moreno, Henry Burriss the list goes on and on and on at the QB position. They forget so easily. Defense was the problem this year and any fan that tells you different didn't watch the games. They couldn't stop any back if their life depended on it. You will see a lot of those defensive players migrate to Tampa imo.

 

[STEED]

That's like saying oh you wouldn't take Michael Vick on your high school team?

Lol

 

[deuce's wild]

Umm where did I say I wouldnt take Cutler on the Browns? That's entirely irrelevant to the discussion lol the Browns and the Bears are two different teams.

Not to mention I just got done saying he's a Top 15 QB and we all known Weeden isn't a Top 50...

:thinking:

Sorry I assumed when you said he sucked you wouldn't want that type of player on the browns.....not sure stating he sucks and then putting him in top 15 makes sense either. Perhaps mediocre is more the point you were trying to make.

I do agree bears and browns are completely different.

 

[deuce's wild]

Average QB. Should be getting average QB money

he kinda did in terms of guaranteed money

 

[STEED]

Completely missing my sense of sarcasm here. No I do not think he's good. I think Jay is average at best. Yes I think Brandon Weeden is terrible. Just so we're comparing kiwis to kiwis here.

 

[deuce's wild]

That's like saying oh you wouldn't take Michael Vick on your high school team?

Lol

a high school team is about the only place vick should be these days guy is done - but for his sake at least he had one good season to get himself one more big payday

 

[STEED]

I hope he does.

I like watching him play

 

[deuce's wild]

Completely missing my sense of sarcasm here. No I do not think he's good. I think Jay is average at best. Yes I think Brandon Weeden is terrible. Just so we're comparing kiwis to kiwis here.

i gotcha all good.........i think next year he will surprise a lot of folks in this system, i just hope the defense can show some sign of a pulse.

 

[deuce's wild]

I hope he does.

I like watching him play

petition the browns to bring him in for a tryout lol...........what a shame what they did to that HC Chud

 

[orangemonk]

Cutler not top 15 come on man thats just nonsense - you cant tell me Stafford's any better.

why are you getting so ornery about Stafford? I never said Stafford was a great QB, but he's 25 and about the same level of production as Cutler with a lot higher ceiling.

Here's my post on page one since you obv. missed it. even if you put him in tier 2 he's fringe top 15. congrats, you paid an average QB top 5 money.

"Guys that NO ONE would argue Cutler is better than: Cam, Peyton, Rodgers, Luck, Brady, Brees, Foles, Rivers, Wilson, Romo

Guys that most people would say are better but maybe not all: ryan, flacco, dalton, stafford, roethlisberger, RG3, Kaepernick

Guys that most people would say are in or around the same tier: alex smith, carson palmer, matt schuab, eli manning

Young/upside guys that could conceivably do as much in that offense but it's fair to say Cutler is a tier better than: cousins, locker, pyror, glennon, manuel and geno smith


Then you have McCown who has proved to be completely competent in that offense this year and the loaded (on paper) 2014 draft class. "

 

[orangemonk]

These same idiots i hope realize we use to have guys like Grossman, Krenzl, Moses Moreno, Henry Burriss the list goes on and on and on at the QB position. They forget so easily. Defense was the problem this year and any fan that tells you different didn't watch the games. They couldn't stop any back if their life depended on it. You will see a lot of those defensive players migrate to Tampa imo.

this is like saying you dated a bunch of crappy girls, started dating one that's not terrible but nothing special, but you're gonna put a ring on it anyway just because the past girls were so bad she seems better than she is.

Defense was absolutely the problem... they won't have as much money to resolve it with Cutlers fat contract. They could've had a guy who played just as well as him in the offense for pennies on the dollar.

 

[eggman]

Hes a soft cunt

WD to him on getting the deal

Lets not Compare him to Matty Stafford,Stafford would run into a brick wall for you,this shithouse,not so much.

Have you ever watched him play? Jesus, the ignorance on this board just to be a hater is amazing. Dude goes balls out for the squad, I don't know where you get this shit.

As far as ego and not buying into the system or whatever, again, did anyone watch him actually play or does everyone just hate him for not being "media friendly?"

 

[eggman]

Yeah, and how much of that did Jay account for? It wasn't him putting up those numbers, it was his back-up. Can't knock the offensive talent there, but Jay doesn't win you big games with it and he's a gigantic crybaby pussy that quits when things go wrong. Throw a little adversity at him and he checks out or gets hurt. Best defense against Jay is getting a pick or forcing a fumble against him on the opening drive because he's likely donezo after that.

No justifying that being a "good" deal. Fondy is probably laughing his ass off right now.

Good point, he didn't come back and beat Cleveland, forgot about that.....oh wait.....

 

[eggman]

With that offensive talent.

But it at least Rodgers gets to stick it in cuntlers ass
for the next 7 years, no pun intended

Do you understand what a "pun" is? Because you did it wrong.

 

[eggman]

hahahaha

This is honestly the worst contract ever.

not even close

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=contracts

 

[eggman]

Orangemonk, I feel like you're just a moron and trying to get people riled up. What everyone else is saying is either they don't like him or think the 7 year deal was a rip off, which was later proven not to be true because after 3 years they can essentially walk away from him if he blows. Did he not give you an autograph or something that you hate him so much?

Also, laughing at your comment that Alex Smith, Carson Palmer and someone else are the same QB's as Cutler. What I hate most is people that won't at least admit he's got a good cannon and can make plays. What is the point of having a good OL, and arguably the best recieving corps overall in the NFL if you have some punk kid or a back up slanging it at him all season long. McCown (again proven in this thread) played bad teams.

The bottom line is that the offense is fine, upgrade where needed and develop young players. The D needs a major overhaul, and again proven in this thread, the Bears were in a good spot to make some big moves this year if the FA market so why not back your proven leader and gun slinger who had a good season (again) even though everyone wants to say he sucked? He knows the system and his players.

People love hating.

 

[eggman]

For the record
Tier 1: Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Brady
Tier 2: Newton, Wilson, Big Ben, Flacco
Tier 3: Cutler, Ryan, Romo, Stafford, Dalton, Luck, Kaepernick, Rivers

Thats my list, and my point is you can argue the order of the 3rd tier depending on your talking points.

 

[STEED]

Easily the worst QB to ever play the game.

 

[STEED]

Good point, he didn't come back and beat Cleveland, forgot about that.....oh wait.....

Beat Cleveland? Oh man I hope he got that game ball for his trophy case.

 

[eggman]

Beat Cleveland? Oh man I hope he got that game ball for his trophy case.

Touche on the Browns blowing horse cock, but you said the best thing was to get him to turn it over, I was destroying your hypothesis. Owned.

 

[STEED]

Lol yah you nailed it.

"Hey throw Prince Fielder a curveball every single pitch...he will NEVER make contact!!!!"

Well done :cheers:

 

[orangemonk]

Orangemonk, I feel like you're just a moron and trying to get people riled up. What everyone else is saying is either they don't like him or think the 7 year deal was a rip off, which was later proven not to be true because after 3 years they can essentially walk away from him if he blows. Did he not give you an autograph or something that you hate him so much?

Also, laughing at your comment that Alex Smith, Carson Palmer and someone else are the same QB's as Cutler. What I hate most is people that won't at least admit he's got a good cannon and can make plays. What is the point of having a good OL, and arguably the best recieving corps overall in the NFL if you have some punk kid or a back up slanging it at him all season long. McCown (again proven in this thread) played bad teams.

The bottom line is that the offense is fine, upgrade where needed and develop young players. The D needs a major overhaul, and again proven in this thread, the Bears were in a good spot to make some big moves this year if the FA market so why not back your proven leader and gun slinger who had a good season (again) even though everyone wants to say he sucked? He knows the system and his players.

People love hating.

lol why so angry? I'm certainly not the only person who thinks the deal is outrageous, so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass and trying to start something out of nothing.

McCown played worse defenses and put up better numbers, so him and Cutler's performances probably net out. Plus, those stats aren't put together correctly, as they should've removed the Bears QB performance from each team's overall stats and normalized the data -- but who cares about meaningful stats!

the options make the deal much better, but it's still a crazy amount for a slight above average at best QB with little upside.

I'm fine to put Cutler in tier 3 with those other guys but Flacco in tier 2 is outrageous, and Luck should probably be in tier 2, especially given his age and upside. I still don't think Cutler is a top 10 QB, but he's getting paid like a top 5.

 

[hugh613]

I'm all for feel good stories, but to think Josh McCown's anything more than a capable backup at this point in his career like some of you seem to be arguing seems pretty laughable. This isn't Steve Young or Kurt Warner we're talking about here - he had his shot in Arizona and then Oakland, and blew them both.

And as for McCown over Cutler, c'mon... That's essentially the same as saying you'd rather have Shaun Hill over Matthew Stafford. Yeah, Shaun Hill's looked really good in some of the games I've watched, but odds are he wouldn't be able to sustain it over the course of a full season and, in fact, he's already shown that to be the case during his time with SF.

Say what you want about Cutler, but at least you know what you're getting, and can work with/around that. Plus, most QB's have shown progression under Trestman over the course of time, so I'd be willing to bet the same happens with Cutler.

 

[ManchesterUk]

Have you ever watched him play? Jesus, the ignorance on this board just to be a hater is amazing. Dude goes balls out for the squad, I don't know where you get this shit.

As far as ego and not buying into the system or whatever, again, did anyone watch him actually play or does everyone just hate him for not being "media friendly?"

Egg,cmon man,Im not a hater.I couldnt care less either way.No Ive never seen him play.
I said wd to him for getting the deal,then,I wouldnt want him in the trenches with me.I watch games with no bias except financial interest in some .
Lets see down the line.....I said Trent Richardson was a bad back as the trade was made,I say Eddie Lacy is a bad back.Jay Cutler is a soft cunt.Only time has the answer.

edit;Good thread btw lads.

 

[deuce's wild]

lol why so angry? I'm certainly not the only person who thinks the deal is outrageous, so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass and trying to start something out of nothing.

McCown played worse defenses and put up better numbers, so him and Cutler's performances probably net out. Plus, those stats aren't put together correctly, as they should've removed the Bears QB performance from each team's overall stats and normalized the data -- but who cares about meaningful stats!

the options make the deal much better, but it's still a crazy amount for a slight above average at best QB with little upside.

I'm fine to put Cutler in tier 3 with those other guys but Flacco in tier 2 is outrageous, and Luck should probably be in tier 2, especially given his age and upside. I still don't think Cutler is a top 10 QB, but he's getting paid like a top 5.

when you break the deal down its not all that bad and at 17 mil per year on average he is not top 5 - Romo I believe is 18 mil and i think he is 5th or 6th at the position. Franchising him would have killed any chance of rebuilding the defense and i think everybody with common sense knows McCown isn't the long term answer and one never knows how a rookie qb will take in the Pro game. The bears needed re-sign him and he has coaching stability for once.

 

[deuce's wild]

Egg,cmon man,Im not a hater.I couldnt care less either way.No Ive never seen him play.
I said wd to him for getting the deal,then,I wouldnt want him in the trenches with me.I watch games with no bias except financial interest in some .
Lets see down the line.....I said Trent Richardson was a bad back as the trade was made,I say Eddie Lacy is a bad back.Jay Cutler is a soft cunt.Only time has the answer.

edit;Good thread btw lads.

At least you admit to your misjudgements - lacy is not a bad back and cutler another year with Trestman will be just fine....

 

[Coverdatspred]

I'm all for feel good stories, but to think Josh McCown's anything more than a capable backup at this point in his career like some of you seem to be arguing seems pretty laughable. This isn't Steve Young or Kurt Warner we're talking about here - he had his shot in Arizona and then Oakland, and blew them both.

And as for McCown over Cutler, c'mon... That's essentially the same as saying you'd rather have Shaun Hill over Matthew Stafford. Yeah, Shaun Hill's looked really good in some of the games I've watched, but odds are he wouldn't be able to sustain it over the course of a full season and, in fact, he's already shown that to be the case during his time with SF.

Say what you want about Cutler, but at least you know what you're getting, and can work with/around that. Plus, most QB's have shown progression under Trestman over the course of time, so I'd be willing to bet the same happens with Cutler.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to write after reading this thread. Anyone who would argue that Mccown can do the job just as well as Cutler is not seeing things clearly at all. Mccown is a well below average QB who went on the greatest run in his long mediocre career and nothing more. Hell even Mccown knows this and that's why he wants to retire so he can go out on a positive note. A healthy Cutler with this offense and trestman has the potential to put up top 5 numbers.

Defense is the problem in Chicago but a team would be very foolish to not lock up a QB with a ceiling as high as Cutlers in this situation. You may laugh at the length of the contract but it's actually better for the salary cap to spread it out rather than bunching the cash up in a for or five year contract. Not only that but the Bears have an out built in as well as teeed has pointed out several times.

 

[Lareux]

I'm fine to put Cutler in tier 3 with those other guys but Flacco in tier 2 is outrageous, and Luck should probably be in tier 2, especially given his age and upside. I still don't think Cutler is a top 10 QB, but he's getting paid like a top 5.

You have an issue with Flacco being in Tier 2 but don't have an issue with Newton being there (or Wilson, since he's in his 2nd year, but that's another issue for later I guess)? It's always brought up on here that the name of the game is winning, not stats (as is being done with Cutler), so Flacco vs Newton isn't even close in that regard. Flacco has a SB, as well as 6 road playoff victories in his career, which is an NFL record.

He definitely had a down year this year, but he didn't exactly have weapons to throw to on offense...not that it should be an excuse, I'm simply pointing it out. Flacco has excelled in the post season in his career, which is exactly when you want your QB to be great. Newton and Wilson both have a long way to go in order to be anywhere near Flacco. Sure, they both have the talent to do so, but let's see them do it before we are okay with them being said to be better than Flacco.

 

[eggman]

Thread of the year so far for me. Love everyone giving their opinions and inputs. Except Orangemonk, he's an idiot.

Just kidding OM, I respect your opinion. And since you're a hater I truly believe you believe all the points you made.

FYI, flacco is a bad ass. Period.

 

[eggman]

Lol, just realized Marlo started this. That's funny considering he is a Viking fan.