Colorado/Vegas Series Discussion
- Thread starter Teapot9
- Start date
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I have a Vegas future, but after seeing the first round I have some concerns:
- Goaltending: I think the edge goes to Knights, I'd prefer Lehner/Fleury over Grubauer/Dubnyk
- Wingers: it's fairly even with Max back
- Center: this is where the Avs really take the cake, especially once Kadri is back from suspension which might be sooner rather than later as he's going through a third party arbitrator for his appeal. But they are just deeper down the middle and we all know how much faceoffs matter
- Defense: give me the Knights; Makar/Toews is nice but i prefer the top 4 of the knights over the Avs.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
the pace is goign to be unreal. I'm hoping Newhook has a good series, kids going to be a stud
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
It seems like you are getting great value just betting against the Avs this playoff year. You think it's a coinflip? I'm seeing Avs -190, series. That seems high.
Teapot9
Not from 63rd
I don’t care. It’s all about you anyway GSRO
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
LOL why?
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I have a Vegas future to win the cup and a series bet of +1.5 which was -110; so I could be bias. There's no quit in that team and getting Max back is huge. Can Vegas play at the pace the Avs have been for 7 games? Goaltending is huge, Vegas is an upgrade to what Grubauer has seen in the playoffs. To be honest, if you take a position pre series and then trade positions based on what you see in each game you could do well and make some money. That is what I'm hoping for here.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I know a lot of people are calling for a sweep in Boston, but I think you're going to see some pushback. Comes down to Sorokin who was unbelievable in the first round and looked nervous yesterday. Game 1 complete and under his belt, should be better starting toorrow.
Teapot9
Not from 63rd
I’m just messing around. I don’t care either way.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
The Penguins are really good at making defensive teams in the playoffs look super human.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Maybe, but the penguins blew leads in 2 of those games, game 5 and game 6. I didn't agree with keeping Jarry in there and let's not take away what Pelech did to Crosby defensively. That team is definitely missing Anders Lee but their offense doesn't get nearly as much credit as they should. Probablu one of the worst teams to have to play down in a game with Trotz there too. No missed assignments, a lot of forechecking and just clogging the blue line on entry
Teapot9
Not from 63rd
First, I like Vegas to win this series. Think this could be one for the ages though. Experience in the NHL means so so much.
Vegas had tons of it at the core and they also have Max Pacioretty actually living up to his billing. Vegas netminder step up in big games and they are the better duo. MacKinnon is a stud but I think Vegas defense can meet that challenge.
As for tonight, give me Vegas game 1 and Colorado game 2 and then I’ll re evaluate.
HOWEVER
If Colorado’s big boys match or come close to the production they had against the Blows it’s a wrap for Vegas.
BUT
Is Vegas the deeper team from top down??
gonna be a great series
So glad to see Paciorety out of Montreal that entire organization is a cluster
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
If Kadri comes back early, Colorado will have the edge IMO because I prefer center depth more than winger depth.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
The pens only play one way and it only works with Kessel, Hags & Bonino. The problem is once the Caps figured out don't outscore them, just trap and you win, they now keep running into trap teams. They dont adjust, they don't play another way. The Pens had a 2 goal lead in the series twice, Game 2 and Game 3 for about 10 minutes each. The Isles made them play their way and the Pens did nothing to counter. It made the Isles look way better than they are. The Bruins are just a way better version of the Isles.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I personally think they were playing fine and were 6-2 against the Islanders all season. It came down to goaltending and defense, their offense was fine in the series. Sorokin stole a couple of games, and there were games where the pens lost in this series where they were the better team for the game but that's playoff hockey right?. Letang kept pinching when he didn't need to which led to goals and Jarry looked lost in the last 2 games. Any team with Codi Ceci and Mike Matheson playing heavy minutes should really look hard into the mirror cause that is a disaster long term.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
Letang is fucking overpaid hot garbage. I have an extreme hatred for him. Rutherford should've traded his ass on the way out anyways. He exemplifies the Pens system. Their style and defense makes every goalie look awful. MAF looks fine 10 years older and in Vegas. I felt so bad for Fleury as they played absolutely no defense in front of him. You can't play the way the Pens do and only have a 2 goal lead for 18 minutes in the series.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I know there's been debate about Fleury and there's no question that he's a winner as he's won 3 SC's but let's not forget that in 2009 he backstopped them to a win against Detroit, 2016 and 2017 was riding Matt Murray. That's not to say he doesn't know what it takes, but it often gets lost I think.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
the "new" NHL is analytics telling their teams to pinch more on D. The Leafs do it alot.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
It only works if you know how to play the right assignments or not turn the puck over every other shift.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I appreciate when Codi Ceci and the like try to pinch; it shows me they still have a sense of humor and care about giving the fans entertainment
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
There was one game, game one?, where it was 2-2 late in the 3rd. Letang covers the wrong guy and gives a wide open pass to a guy streaking down the middle and it should've been a goal. Islanders scored anyways a minute later. Kap tied it up and the Pens ended up turning the puck over twice in their own zone after and Jarry bailed them out both times. Pens still lost, typical for them.
dg84
Inside Mike Tomlin‘s Mind
I feel the Penguins outplayed the Islanders the majority of that series. Pens usually lose early in the playoffs due to stupid penalties & lazy turnovers (Malkin & Letang) & depending on Crosby to carry most of the offensive burden, but I felt they played better this series than in any series since they won the cup in 2017. Bottom line is goaltending won the series for the Islanders, but if Jarry would have only been mediocre, the Pens would have overcame Sorokin's heroics. Jarry singlehandedly lost games 5 & 6 IMO. Doesn't matter, as I'm sure they would have lost to the Bruins in this round anyway.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
No shot against the Bruins, just like 13. Jarry played well enough to win. The defense constantly put Jarry in positions to give up goals. Also, the offense was MIA for most of the series. You can't play the Pens style and try to win every game in OT.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Yup, they lost games where they were the better team, but it's playoff hockey...Leafs dominated OT yesterday and the second shot that Montreal has goes into the net on a weak goal. Like you said, Jarry just had to play to his season averages but he couldn't in 5 and 6
dg84
Inside Mike Tomlin‘s Mind
He definitely didn't play well enough to win overall. Not for playoff hockey. If you look at the stats, the Penguins had quite a few more quality scoring chances than the Isles. I watched all 6 games in their entirety & I don't believe the offense was MIA at all. They created an abundance of opportunities. Granted, scoring 16 goals in 6 games isn't great, but it's about average output per game for playoff games. I firmly believe Jarry was the biggest liability in the series.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
It's nice that they had more quality scoring chances. They played Isles hockey. You don't win very often playing the other teams style. I also count how the team plays in front of the goalie. It's easy and convenient to blame the goalie.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
If you actually look at the stats the Pens were 58-53 HDCF. That's not an earth shattering difference. The offense disappeared. Whatever, Jarry blows is a simple narrative.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Would say that this would speak even more on how bad Jarry was. It may be a simple narrative, but the D and goaltending in this series was not on par with what they are capable of and Sorokin outplayed his counter part and even stole a game or two
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
I watched the series and was on the islanders game 5. To say Jarry was the reason why they lost or the offense was great is ludicrous. The team failed, the coach especially failed. The way the pens play if you think they are going to win the series by producing average goal scoring, you’re insane.
Teapot9
Not from 63rd
Vegas and the over
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Because Colorado is a MA-SHEEN
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
Avalanche are public money and coincidentally also really good. They are built properly to win in the playoffs. Speed, forward scoring.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I think we can go back and forth on this, but there is really only one team in the playoffs which is scoring consistently to win in above average scoring and that’s Colorado. I watched the entire series and Jarry was lost out there for a good chunk of his time especially as the series went on. Go back in this thread and you’ll be able to find my comments on this and Sullivan as well throughout. I get Sullivan is a players coach, but that was the hill he decided to die on. The offense gave them enough leads only to let the d and Jarry let them get right back in it. Especially the last 2 games
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Arent you in chi town or am I mixing up members, if tou are. Kane and Toews should ring a bunch
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
When I say you, I don’t mean you personally, I mean generally.
Jarry was fine until the gaffe. The defense was awful. It is what it is. The penguins win with pressing speed and all out offense. If the pens don’t score they aren’t winning games. Naturally, if they aren’t scoring at an above average pace they aren’t winning games.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
I do know something we can agree on. The lightning are great and are undervalued. I got money invested in them.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Not taking any of this personally. In fact this is the most action this part of forum has seen and I love that more are coming in for a chat; they lost game 1 scoring 3 goals and giving away a turnover in OT, Game 2 they won 2-1 probably Jarry's best game, Game 3 they won in a shoot out and Jarry was meh giving up 2 leads, game 4 was beginning of the end for his confidence.
In my opinion it's more about defense and goaltending in the playoffs. Look at how Montreal has neutralized Matthews/Marner and what Price offers every night shutting the door down. Colorado didn't go far last year cause they couldn't outscore their opponents when their goalies went down.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Experience, good defense, good goaltending and can win in both shoot outs or close games.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
But recently, really ever since the black hawks started winning cups, it’s speed and forward scoring depth that gets you far in the playoffs. The hawks started it, kings had scoring depth, Rutherford and the pens copied it, very successfully, with HBK line and rust/sherry, 4th line center guy.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
Also, Kessel should have a conn smythe. Fuck the stupid hockey press.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
Yea I don't disagree with the notion that you need depth scoring and some sand paper. Look at what Tampa had to do to get over the hump. They had to change their make up and make the bottom 6 to get a little more gritty and add some toughness with a touch of finesse. Leafs learned that the hard way and have re-tooled (Babcock asked for this but Dubas was stubborn). But let's not forget the D and goaltending for the winning teams as it has an impact too. All the winners dating to the Chicago ERA had impeccable goaltending and defense and all played heavy. I think you can get by more with the latter than having depth scoring and it's been evident in the results. Chicago is also a team that drafted extremely well:
Keith 54th
Seabrook 14th
Crawford 52nd
Byfuglien 245
Bolland 32
Bickell 41
Toews 3
Kane 1
Teuvo 14
Signed Panarin undrafted
this is only half of them, go check out who they've drafted, there will never be a team like what Chicago was able to do in that cores prime.
Chicago Blackhawks Draft History at hockeydb.com
www.hockeydb.com
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
it’s weird because to me goaltending is plug and play. Best goalie to win a cup since then Thomas or Quick? The alternative to forward depth and speed is defense/goaltending, like that crappy blues team, who had some great forward depth.
Stupid Avalanche since they are with the Canada division, winner of that series can walk in to the finals.
i just thought the lightning need to learn how to lose first. They ran into the defensive minded blue jackets after winning the presidents cup. The core of that team was speed and forward scoring.
gsro
Give me the NHL, or give me death
I don't think it's that plug and play, if that's the case then a lot of these teams with mediocre goaltending in the playoffs would have had more success:
Just on simple goalie stats alone, these guys crushed it in the playoffs and for the most part in the regular season.
| Year | Winners | Goalie(s) | Ranks |
2020 | Tampa | Vasilevsky | T5 |
2019 | St. Louis | Binnington | T1 |
2018 | Washington | Grubauer/Holtby | T5 |
2017 | Pittsburgh | Murray | T1 |
2016 | Pittsburgh | Murray | T5 |
2015 | Chicago | Crawford | T10 |
2014 | Los Angeles | Quick | T10 |
I think all teams need to learn to lose first; washington losing year after year to Pittsburgh and finally getting over the hump, Tampa getting swept, Boston blowing their 3-0 lead against Philly before going on their run there is plenty of evidence of this happening and also anomalies like the blackhawks.
As for seeding it all depends on who comes out of the North; if the maple leafs wake up and assuming it's colorado/tampa/boston.. then it would be colorado/Boston and Toronto/Tampa. If it's the Jets/Montreal they would play the top seed otherwise Boston/Colorado is going ot be a fun series if that were the case.
Smokeshow99
Pretty much a regular
Why does the NHL fuck with the playoff seedings every year, it seems like? I hate the divisional-only playoff bullshit. Bettman is the worst. Single-handedly ruined hockey. Watching the Lightning/Hurricanes and Pens/Isles series, it's like it's two different leagues with two different sets of rules.
