Chris Davis

Toronto_Mike

Toronto_Mike

Scent of a Woman
Hey Jump why aren't you on this guys ass? You've been busting Jose bautistas balls for years and he's proven he can consistently hit so what about Davis?
 
th
 
Lol

Man love this kid but I also am a big Bautista fan just find it a bit unfair about all the negativity he gets from jump yet he proves each year he can maintain the power numbers
 
In his mid-to-late twenties, Bautista went from 13 to 54 in one year (and down from there). At approximately the same career stage as Bautista muscling up for 13 taters, Davis was tied for 8th in the AL with 33 bombs last year. So get back to me when Davis gets to 130, and I'll validate the comparison.
 
Speaking of Davis (off the Bautista subject), I think he is CRAZY for participating in the HR derby. He better be one loose goose. The curse of that competition has fucked up better hitters than Davis for the second half. He should politely decline.
 
Such a stupid event anyway. Quick, who won the 2011 HR Derby, no googling? (I don't even know who won the 2012.)
 
tipyerbartender said:
In his mid-to-late twenties, Bautista went from 13 to 54 in one year (and down from there). At approximately the same career stage as Bautista muscling up for 13 taters, Davis was tied for 8th in the AL with 33 bombs last year. So get back to me when Davis gets to 130, and I'll validate the comparison.
Click to expand...

If we are going to be fair with the comparison, Joey Bats had 400 ABs in the season he hit 13 HRs. He didn't become a regular player until the next year. I think he hit 10 of those 13 in the last 2
months of the season and then worked on hitting the ball in the air more during the winter league that year. There are many advanced stats sites which show how drastically he improved his fly ball to ground ball ratio.
 
tipyerbartender said:
And many advanced thinkers who call bullshit.
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Could be. You won't get much of an argument from me, I've been saying that most players were are something back in the day. Many of them are still on something. The thing is, I don't care and many others don't either. They still don't have a reliable test for HGH either.

Chris Davis should be at the top of the suspected users list based on his first half. It is what it is.
 
I'm in the camp that does care, and Davis might be up to something fishy. But the comparison isn't there. Davis has always hit for power, just not every single day of the season.
 
tipyerbartender said:
I'm in the camp that does care, and Davis might be up to something fishy. But the comparison isn't there. Davis has always hit for power, just not every single day of the season.
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The comparison is certainly going to be made. Why do you care if they are on something? It's not your body and players been on 'something' for a veeeeery long time.
 
And Davis always hit for power? Before last year's 33, he hit 17, 21, and then 11 home runs.

You could make a case that he started dabbling in the HGH last year, saw the results and went full bore with it this year.
 
Not sure why I care to be totally honest, but I do. I guess caffeine pills and uppers and coke don't bug me as much as steroids and HGH. The watering down of the stats and records is a bummer. I don't know, it's just low rent.

As far as Davis' power, it's always been his calling card. I'll throw your # of at bats right back at you (a good excuse, by the way), and pile on some minor league numbers to boot. Davis has always been groomed as a slugger. Bloomed late. Could be science and steroids, could be he's in a sick groove in his best year.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Not sure why I care to be totally honest, but I do. I guess caffeine pills and uppers and coke don't bug me as much as steroids and HGH. The watering down of the stats and records is a bummer. I don't know, it's just low rent.

As far as Davis' power, it's always been his calling card. I'll throw your # of at bats right back at you (a good excuse, by the way), and pile on some minor league numbers to boot. Davis has always been groomed as a slugger. Bloomed late. Could be science and steroids, could be he's in a sick groove in his best year.
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They should though. Any "drug" that ball players have been taking were to increase their stamina and give them the ability to bounce back quicker. Sure, the steroids and HGH will increase your strength as well, but you still need to be able to hit the baseball and steroids/HGH aren't helping you do that. The majority of players that used them, used them solely to bounce back quicker, as evidenced by just as many pitchers using as hitters.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Why isn't there a test for HGH anyway?
Click to expand...

I would guess that, for one, it's naturally produced in your body (pituitary gland) so it may be hard to differentiate what's real and what's synthetic. It may be because it doesn't show up in a urine test, and blood tests are fairly new to 'the game.' I'm not certain, but I know for a fact there isn't a reliable one yet and they didn't even test for it up until a couple of years ago.
 
Alex said:
Tip it's because you are a baseball fan
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I know plenty of baseball fans, myself included, who couldn't care less if guys are using PEDs/HGH. The game was absolutely fan-fucking-tastic in the late 90s when they were clearly quite prevalent.

Also, HGH isn't illegal under a doctor's care. And it wasn't illegal in baseball during the 'juicing' heyday. So, what exactly were the players doing wrong if it wasn't against the rules in the league in which they played, and they were taking them with a prescription under a doctor's care? I'm sure they weren't all taking them under the supervision of a doctor, more of a hypothetical question.
 
Lareux said:
They should though. Any "drug" that ball players have been taking were to increase their stamina and give them the ability to bounce back quicker. Sure, the steroids and HGH will increase your strength as well, but you still need to be able to hit the baseball and steroids/HGH aren't helping you do that. The majority of players that used them, used them solely to bounce back quicker, as evidenced by just as many pitchers using as hitters.
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You're right. But you'll find a lot less dissension in the ranks among old players (amphetamine users vs. non-users) than you will today among the dirty and the clean, I think. They just thought it another way to "wake up" back then, more day baseball, travel was harder, players not as coddled and well nourished. Bowls of pills were in the clubhouse like candy jars, this wasn't done in the closet. Perception is reality. It's perception that a drug that enhances your strength, the distance you hit the ball, the speed you throw it ... is a more illegal drug, in a sporting sense, than one that wakes and wires you.
 
tipyerbartender said:
You're right. But you'll find a lot less dissension in the ranks among old players (amphetamine users vs. non-users) than you will today among the dirty and the clean, I think. They just thought it another way to "wake up" back then, more day baseball, travel was harder, players not as coddled and well nourished. Bowls of pills were in the clubhouse like candy jars, this wasn't done in the closet. Perception is reality. It's perception that a drug that enhances your strength, the distance you hit the ball, the speed you throw it ... is a more illegal drug, in a sporting sense, than one that wakes and wires you.
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Agreed.

The fact still remains that in today's day and age, when pills aren't in bowlfuls in the clubhouse, guys were taking HGH to bounce back quicker (as they did with pills in the 70s/80s). I'm not disputing what steroids do for your strength, but it's clear that guys were taking PEDs/HGH to bounce back or you wouldn't have seen any pitchers taking them, let alone the amount of pitchers that did. It makes no sense to be jacked up muscularly when you're a pitcher (obviously), so they were taking them for a different reason....the same reason dudes popped greenies back in the day.

I don't agree that using steroids will help you throw a ball faster though tip. You need to be flexible to be a pitcher and bulking up and isn't going to do that for you at all.
 
Lareux said:
I know plenty of baseball fans, myself included, who couldn't care less if guys are using PEDs/HGH. The game was absolutely fan-fucking-tastic in the late 90s when they were clearly quite prevalent.

Also, HGH isn't illegal under a doctor's care. And it wasn't illegal in baseball during the 'juicing' heyday. So, what exactly were the players doing wrong if it wasn't against the rules in the league in which they played, and they were taking them with a prescription under a doctor's care? I'm sure they weren't all taking them under the supervision of a doctor, more of a hypothetical question.
Click to expand...

i made a stoned statement and you gave me back a paragraph
 
Lareux said:
Agreed. The fact still remains that in today's day and age, when pills aren't in bowlfuls in the clubhouse, guys were taking HGH to bounce back quicker (as they did with pills in the 70s/80s). I'm not disputing what steroids do for your strength, but it's clear that guys were taking PEDs/HGH to bounce back or you wouldn't have seen any pitchers taking them, let alone the amount of pitchers that did. It makes no sense to be jacked up muscularly when you're a pitcher (obviously), so they were taking them for a different reason....the same reason dudes popped greenies back in the day.
Click to expand...

Not disputing your assertion that alot of player, pitchers included took them for their bounceback abillity, but just cause you were on something doesn't automatically mean you have to be jacked and get an extra 5-10 mph on your fastball. Case in point, Eric Gagne. Tons of olympic levels marathoners are on something and they are by no means jacked either. Mild steroids like Anavar will show very little muscularity gains but quite drastic strength increases. More strength = more power = faster pitches/longer hit balls, faster runners etc etc
 
Alex said:
i made a stoned statement and you gave me back a paragraph
Click to expand...

Sorry. It was actually 2 posts but I combined them to make it easier I guess.

I also have a better mastery of the English language than you do, so it was assumed I would write more.

:hello:
 
CAPital said:
Not disputing your assertion that alot of player, pitchers included took them for their bounceback abillity, but just cause you were on something doesn't automatically mean you have to be jacked and get an extra 5-10 mph on your fastball. Case in point, Eric Gagne. Tons of olympic levels marathoners are on something and they are by no means jacked either. Mild steroids like Anavar will show very little muscularity gains but quite drastic strength increases. More strength = more power = faster pitches/longer hit balls, faster runners etc etc
Click to expand...

:shake:

I didn't say otherwise to the part in bold.
 
Lareux said:
Sorry. It was actually 2 posts but I combined them to make it easier I guess.

I also have a better mastery of the English language than you do, so it was assumed I would write more.

:hello:
Click to expand...

wud hate foreigners
 
Wait a minute drugs and HGH aren't helping the ball get out of the park? There's 100% numerical data that supports it in fact increased offense to an all time high and now with some testing back to an all time low.
 
Inspekdah said:
Wait a minute drugs and HGH aren't helping the ball get out of the park? There's 100% numerical data that supports it in fact increased offense to an all time high and now with some testing back to an all time low.
Click to expand...

Not sure anyone said otherwise.

:shake:
 
ill be the naive one...i dont think he is. he always had monster power, he just didnt make contact. it is very possible that he just got better in the contact department so the power now can show itself more often
 
tipyerbartender said:
Speaking of Davis (off the Bautista subject), I think he is CRAZY for participating in the HR derby. He better be one loose goose. The curse of that competition has fucked up better hitters than Davis for the second half. He should politely decline.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree...you know I got him on that fantasy team and that trade I got him in. I sure hope it doesn't fuck up his swing.

Anybody got the actual numbers (1st half/2nd half splits) of the winners in this thing the past few years? Who was the one guy that just completely nosedived in the 2nd half?
 
D-Woww said:
ill be the naive one...i dont think he is. he always had monster power, he just didnt make contact. it is very possible that he just got better in the contact department so the power now can show itself more often
Click to expand...

This is pretty much my exact thinking on Chris Davis.

I honestly don't think he's on anything, but, certainly wouldn't be surprised if we find out he is.
 
KowboyKarl said:
Anybody got the actual numbers (1st half/2nd half splits) of the winners in this thing the past few years? Who was the one guy that just completely nosedived in the 2nd half?
Click to expand...

I guess I'm gonna make this my mission this morning...

Recent winners:

2012 - Prince
2011 - Cano
2010 - Big Papi
2009 - Prince
2008 - Morneau
2007 - Vladimir
2006 - Howard
2005 - Abreu
2004 - Tejada
 
As a huge baseball fan, there have been late bloomers, career years, guys falling off the cliff at 27, yada yada yada throughout the history of baseball. Its a shame that now players that have career years or are late bloomers are automatically tied to cheating without any shred of evidence outside of his numbers. Davis was a top 75ish prospect in the minors known for his power potential (118 homers in 472 games in the minors).This guy hit 36 homers as a 21 year old in A+ and AA. He's now in the prime of his career and producing the power potential he had. He also gets to play in a park that is pretty homer friendly.
 
2012 - Prince
1h, 86 games.....15 hrs, 63 rbi, .299
2h, 76 games..... 15 hrs, 45 rbi, .331

2009 - Prince
1h, 88 games..... 22 hrs, 78 rbi, .315
2h, 74 games..... 24 hrs, 63 rbi, .283
 
KowboyKarl said:
Yeah, I agree...you know I got him on that fantasy team and that trade I got him in. I sure hope it doesn't fuck up his swing.Anybody got the actual numbers (1st half/2nd half splits) of the winners in this thing the past few years? Who was the one guy that just completely nosedived in the 2nd half?
Click to expand...

The answer is Bobby Abreu
 
Last year, Jose Bautista put on a show for the Kansas City crowd only to injure his wrist a couple weeks later. In 2011, Adrian Gonzalez fell one home run short of a title in Arizona and has yet to be a power threat since. Hanley Ramirez failed to squeak by David Ortiz in the 2010 Derby and has spent most of the next three years disappointing everyone, when able to play. In 2008, Justin Morneau outlasted Josh Hamilton and then the former AL MVP entered the witness protection program. Even going back to 2005, Bobby Abreu slugged 41 home runs in Comerica(!!!) and might not have hit that many for the rest of his career. The 2004 edition with Miguel Tejada, Rafael Palmeiro, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and David Ortiz shall remain notable for reasons that won't be touched upon here.
 
reNew Orleans said:
Last year, Jose Bautista put on a show for the Kansas City crowd only to injure his wrist a couple weeks later. In 2011, Adrian Gonzalez fell one home run short of a title in Arizona and has yet to be a power threat since. Hanley Ramirez failed to squeak by David Ortiz in the 2010 Derby and has spent most of the next three years disappointing everyone, when able to play. In 2008, Justin Morneau outlasted Josh Hamilton and then the former AL MVP entered the witness protection program. Even going back to 2005, Bobby Abreu slugged 41 home runs in Comerica(!!!) and might not have hit that many for the rest of his career. The 2004 edition with Miguel Tejada, Rafael Palmeiro, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and David Ortiz shall remain notable for reasons that won't be touched upon here.
Click to expand...

Kind of a strecth to blame the Derby on a few of those guys' struggles. It's more of a myth than anything about the Derby and guys messing with their swings. They do swing for the fences a lot of the times they take BP (couple hundred times a year), the Derby just goes on a bit longer if you do well in it. For the few guys on this list, how many participated that are not on these lists? Don't believe the hype. They are pro baseball players, a couple of house of trying to hit bombs really shouldn't be affecting their swings the way some want you to believe.
 
Joey Bats hurt his wrist, how is the Derby to blame for that? Ortiz stopped taking steroids. Hanley isn't a power hitter and neither is Gonazalez really. Morneau fell off but also battled injuries, and Hamilton still hits for power (so does Ortiz again btw). HR derby is not to blame on the struggles listed above.
 
Lareux said:
Joey Bats hurt his wrist, how is the Derby to blame for that? Ortiz stopped taking steroids. Hanley isn't a power hitter and neither is Gonazalez really. Morneau fell off but also battled injuries, and Hamilton still hits for power (so does Ortiz again btw). HR derby is not to blame on the struggles listed above.
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yup he hurt his wrist not in the competition. shit like that happens, it's like pulling a groin running the bases
 
madden curse, coincidences. whatever. i dont care. im just playing devils advocate. you can even call it trolling :)
 
Some hitters just have a disdain for the event and use the "messes with my swing" reasoning to opt out. I may be mistaken, but on those mighty Indians teams of the '90's, I don't recall Belle or Manny ever even participating in the derby. Belle just had a general angry disdain for all things, and Manny just always shied away from attention in those days. I'm sure Thome participated in a few and while I don't remember him ever doing that well in the event, it sure didn't seem to hurt his ability to hit home runs over the long haul.
 
reNew Orleans said:
karl must be doing some serious research because he disappeared
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Ok, I'm back at it. Just had to whoop my buddy on the tennis court real quick this morning...took advantage of some unseasonably cool 73 degree temps and overcast skies this morning.

2010 - Big Papi
1h, 77 games..... 18 hrs, 57 rbi, .263
2h, 74 games..... 14 hrs, 45 rbi, .277
 
Last edited:
There hasn't really been a dramatic drop off for any of the guys that have been posted. The one who sticks out, as I answered before, was Bobby Abreu. He literally hit like 2 or 3 homers the rest of the year after the Derby.
 
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