Cavs make blockbuster trade

Saying that it is a step backwards is an interesting point brew. I am very curious to hear why Paxson made this deal, or at least the "answer Pax wants to give to the media and fans."
 
Goopster24 said:
That's fine man, like I said, I respect your view and opinion. Just curious, did the 15 win Bulls back in 2000 have a better "style of play" then the current Bulls? You did support them then and not now right?
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I didn't have high hopes for the Bulls in that transition period. I give the front office credit, even with passing up guys like elton brand, they made some wise draft decisions and the team was looking good, but everything just went to shit this year. If they were shit to begin with, I would have no problem dealing with it, but the fact that talent is there, but it is nowhere to be found, is what ticks me off. That and the fact that I dislike a lot of the players
 
Much of the roster is the same as last year slayer. Did you dislike the players last year when they almost came back to beat the Pistons and swept the Heat in the first round?
 
And when you say you credit the front office, are you talking about the bad years or now? Because I wouldn't credit them for anything, especially Pax now.
 
Goopster24 said:
Much of the roster is the same as last year slayer. Did you dislike the players last year when they almost came back to beat the Pistons and swept the Heat in the first round?
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I didn't really like the players last year, although I could give deng and kirk a break when they were producing.

Goopster24 said:
And when you say you credit the front office, are you talking about the bad years or now? Because I wouldn't credit them for anything, especially Pax now.
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Talking about the bad years I guess up until the point where paxson took over
 
only player on this team left i got problems with is kirk and hughes. i dont like the hc or gm either.

players i like are noch, lu and noah.

everyone else is just ok in my book.
 
big ben going back to his true position in PF is something to watch. so is the stons/cavs future games more so than the past. tho i still would expect the same or slightly more.

Vince McMahon wants ...

cavs/stons and suns/lakers
 
In Wallace's case perhaps his attitude had worn the organization & possibly his teammates down some. To the point where maybe he was no longer welcome. Possibly not to that degree yet but on its way to that type of situation. Then it boils down to how many chances yo have to trade him. With Joe Smith I think he really wasnt in the future plans . Despite playing real well it may have been an silent favor. Smith took less money to come to CHI to be on playoff contender. Maybe he was repaid by being shipped to a playoff contender. As well as Smith has played he is exactly the type of guy you want to deal at this time. A veteran with a small salary ( in NBA terms) who over shot your expectations. Sort of picture what you thought Smith could do for you when teh season started?? Also in acquiring Hughes possibly it makes it easier to deal Ben Gordon and take the focus off needing a guard in return . There are deep as hell at the 2 spot now and could make a splash for a star player in the trade market IMO.
 
nut, i thought smith would give me slightly more than pj gave last year. better perimeter post defender, a worse down low post defender, and a better j.

so its subtraction in my book.
 
Wallace's true position isn't PF. When was the last time he played as a PF? He has always played center, correct me if I am wrong.

I loathe Hinrich too, :shake:
 
your'e absolutely right that gordon is gone this summer and he has to know that now for sure. will he be a professional and go strong rest of way or just go thru the motions and not help the push for a 6, 7, 8 spot?
 
Goopster24 said:
I can't wait for Wallace to rip the Bulls apart in the media.
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ben wallace could talk all he wants and i would just laugh. he's the biggest fraud i've seen in professional sports. all talk and nothing else. dumars saw this. kudos to him.
 
Gordon is a bum, I can't believe he is still a Bull. That fuck is gonna sign a one year deal and become an unrestricted if he isn't given a long term deal by another team that trades for him. Unreal.
 
brewer said:
could care less. he's the biggest fraud i've seen in professional sports. all talk and nothing else. dumars saw this. kudos to him.
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Not sure if I totally agree with this. Wallace was as big a part of the Pistons winning a ring as anyone else He was a defensive POY man, four times! I think what Dumas saw is that he was past his prime, becoming more of an ass, and asking for money that he is worth.
 
Oh Ben Wallace. I remember how fucking pumped I was when I heard the Bulls signed him. Now he is someone Bulls fans will remember to hate.
 
interestng that both wallace and griffen were moved. they were on teh same side of that noah suspension.

trying to the right ship, perhaps.

gotta sit back and figure this bulls trade out with a clear head. hughes still sucks.
 
I dont recall Brown doing much of anything in Chi . I may be mistaken but looking quickly Smith basically doubled Brown's offensive production( 12 vs 6 pts) which we would expect more off from him and less defense like you stated but I think Smith's play was gravy this year. The fact he is getting valuable minutes shows how fucked up CHI really is IMO. He was Noah's insurance policy in some ways..

Gooden is limited offensively but he plays hard and probably is PJ Brown from a few years back. The big plus is trading Wallace and gaining someone with upside and talent in Hughes. He definetly needs to rework his game some but at least there are possibilities with him.

By losing Smith you allow more minutes to your younger players which in the long run is a plus and you still get Gooden to slide and duplicate what he did minus the jump shooting ability. Wallace wasnt even playing 4th quarters and now you get rid of his attitude and contract plus gain Hughes who had played better of late.

You get the strong possibility to add a key player in the offseason and possible deal one dimensonal gunslinger Ben Gordon and / or inconsistent Kirk Hinrich.

I think you get that change and breath of fresh air while not trading any core or extremely valuable parts. Gooden and Hughes I think have more TRADE value in the future then either aging forward Wallace and Smith. Which makes for a good deal in the long run. It should set the wheels in motion for later deals and attract more head coaching canditates to the team.

I guess I love the fact both teams have new faces and parts to hopefully kickstart them down the stretch.
 
just feel that its a step back at the moment and i dont like that. long term sets up well like you said but who do we target?

thanks for the opinion.
 
the few sonics fans gotta be wondering what the hell the plan is there. now thats a puzzle.
 
Guess Seattle is thinking lets free up more money. To bad these teams dont realize most desirable FA's wont want to play there.

I think Chi has to play this season out and decide on who is playing where then make decisions based on that. Chances are you want a better PG and either a true center or more offensive minded PF. Elton Brand would be interesting but unsure of cap issues. A PG in teh Andre Miller talent area would be good pushing Duhon to the bench. What a sick bench they could have...

It's all chatter at this point . I guess my point is dont get to down on your team or the deal cause at least you dont lose what I see a valuable commodity. If you look at indivually of the 4 players Joe Smith , Wallace , Hughes and Gooden at the end of the day the new Bulls players would be 1 and 2 in marketability IMO....this year is done IMO and has been for along time cause there problem bbesides there injuries was lack of an identity. Like Sir Charles was saying on TNT one time how in the hell can Adrian Griffin be the voice in teh locker room? You cant lead if you dont play especially in the pro's these days...

Fuck it !! No more chatter from me I GOTS games to cap....and then a game to play at 10PM...killing me with these late starts...

The trade taught me one thing ...I viewed Joe Smith and Ben Wallace as old. Then I saw there DOB's today and Smith is a year younger and Wallace only a few weeks older....
 
Seattle is for sure setting themselves up for free agency. All the guys they got have expiring contracts. A great trade for them, also unloading a PG.
 
West was actually unhappy in SEA. Again great addition by subtraction ( sorry ). They really needed Wally though to stay competitive IMO, but they did ship Thomas for Brent Barry who could fill that role. I guess its scary in a sense that SEA could be getting worse this year. You figure Durant and Green could hit the rookie wall and then its oh shit look out below. Obviously SEA is and has always been playing for the future so its clear why they made the deal(s) but wow they could be awful and worse then they have been!! Thats scary....Not sure why a FA would go to SEA other then money..
 
I have to head to class and I'll write more of what I think of Hinrich later hopefully, but in essence, he has not improved since his sophomore year really. Yes, stats might show otherwise, but I don't give a shit about that. Part of this deals with the role the team has asked of him, which hurts him. He has to score, pass, AND guard the best offensive guard on the other team. He can't do that all. He can maybe do two OK on a good night. You just have to watch him. There are some nights where he looks great and some nights where he can't do anything and you can tell right away in the first quarter. I like him as a person but as a Bulls fan, I can't stand him. And I LOVED him in college, sad thing.
 
word.

i don't get to see him often but when I do he seems like a complete, reliable player. But i see what you're saying.
 
the Cavs GM needs to be fired for picking up Ben Wallace. Doesn't he keep up with goes on in the league? You got a guy who doesn't defend like he used to and with no offensive game whatsoever.
 
OK..I thought this over for some time...and in the end I like the deal..Havent read through all the threads so sorry if this has been said. We have so many looks to throw at teams. Towards the end of games we can play Andy, Ben with Lebron, Boobie and Wally...We can go small with West, Boobie, Pavs/Wally, Bron and any big man. I think that rotation of Andy,Ben and Z will work extremely well...We really couldnt have got a better deal for what we had. We offered Drew,Shannon and Simmons for Bibby and they turned that down... We werent going anywhere this year, that was clear to see and I thik we have improved a lot..Im not worried about the money or anything cause frankly, I dont write the checks,but I heard it was only 4mil difference after the smoke clears. and I think 100% Lebron was putting pressure on Ferry to do something. It will never come out but comments he's made you can tell he wasnt happy with the team,and he shouldnt be...Thats it for now
 
None of the new four will be in uniform tonight, plus Gibson, Sasha, and Varejao are all hurt.

They have by my count for tonight, Lebron, Z, Damon Jones, Snow, another scrub or two I'm probably forgetting, and they signed two guys from the developmental league for tonight.

Should actually be a fun game to watch, get ready for Lebron to try out the Superman role, more than usual.
 
cavs only have 6 players today. gotta go to the local YMCA and sign some people.
 
starting lineup is looking like this:

1. eric slow
2. damon 'freshest on the team' jones
3. bron bron
4. dwayne jones
5 z

....butler out for wash, otherwise this game would be even a bigger wiz blowout.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Cavs are 3-point favorites ... little strange.
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ya, i know. the reason is i think lebron is capable of just taking over and beating such a shitty wash team. otherwise....if wash was healthy they would have to be a pretty decent size fav right here IMO.

i dunno, i sure as hell aint bettin it..
 
With Boobie and Sasha out, Hughes and Gooden gone, and the new guys not here, who the hell is going to put in the hoop for Cleveland other than Lebron and Z?

Not sure if the Cavs can win the game, but I betchya Lebron goes off for 50 tonight with a million shots.
 
varejoe out also with injury. i dont think there is anyone else besides bron and z that can score, unless something crazy happends like damon jones or something goes off....but ill give someone 20:1 odds on him scoring more than 20....

gonna be weird to watch tonight, but u are right....lebron could go off and with that i can see it being close against this team. who knows
 
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