Byu @ tcu -- it's on !

JPicks

JPicks

Pretty much a regular
Poked my head into a few different threads and have seen quite a bit of talk about this game. Weekday game and all so I figured I'd start a thread and hopefully consolidate some of the thoughts in here for the late arrivals. I'll start by posting what I wrote about the game on Sunday before the lines were released. As of right now the current line is:

BYU -1 O/U 46' BM

First off let's take a look at the recent history.

2005: BYU -3 O/U 46'

BYU hosted TCU in the 1st game between the two schools as conference foes. Both teams combined for 88 points in regulation and 1039 yards of offense. BYU went for and missed a 2pt conversion on their opening drive of OT and TCU scored and kicked the extra point for the game winner as the Frogs won 51-50. BYU led this game by 16 points in the 3rd quarter before blowing their lead. BYU fans complained of poor officiating for weeks after the game.

2006: TCU -7 O/U 47 on a Thursday night game.

TCU came into the game ranked #17 in the country and off a bye week while BYU was 2-2 and played Utah State the previous Saturday. The teams combined for 830 yards of offense and 48 points. Difference was turnovers as TCU gave up the ball twice while BYU. BYU openly talked about this being a revenge game after blowing a 16 point lead the previous year:

"That was in the back of our minds," Harline said. "We just got up and said, we're not letting this one get away."

While TCU did a great job of stopping the running attack by BYU they did little to slow down John Beck and the passing game as the Cougars had 7 receivers get 30 yards or more through the air. The Cougars won 31-17 to break TCU's winning streak at 13 games.

2007 BYU -7' O/U 46' on a Thursday night game

TCU traveled to Provo after playing New Mexico the previous Saturday while BYU had Colorado State at home the previous Saturday. Teams combined for 770 yards of offense and 49 points. Neither team had any luck running the ball (3.3 ypc for each team) while BYU was able to throw the ball around and make plays a bit more than the Frogs. BYU held on for a 27-22 victory. TCU had plenty of chances to win this one as they were stopped 3 times on 4th down in the 2nd half, gave BYU the ball on their own 3 yard line to start the 3rd quarter, had to settle for 3 FG's on drives, and had the ball with under two minutes to go and were driving before giving up b2b sacks. All in all a close game with some points left off the board.

2008 Thursday Night game

Kind of looks like the same story with new characters to me. Both teams should do a great job at shutting down the opponents running game and it'll be a matter of who can make more plays with the passing game and special teams play. TCU is 1-5 all time playing on Thursday night games and it's in their heads a bit.

The status of Andy Dalton is still unknown and for me to play TCU I'd have to have him in there. Marcus Jackson makes to many mistakes (five fumbled snaps and a pic vs CSU) for me to back a team led by him against an explosive team like BYU. Jackson has had 5 TO's in the last three games and giving BYU a short field is playing with dynamite. In TCU's first 4 games with Dalton behind center the team had 1 TO and won by an average of 35 points.

My other concern backing TCU is their secondary. Beyond the two dropped TD passes by CSU yesterday Kory Sperry (leagues best TE imo) got 104 yards receiving. Not being able to cover TE's is a major concern when facing BYU has David Pitta might be 1a when it comes to TE's in the league. He's already grabbed 40 catches for 542 yards this year and burned TCU last year for 90 yards. Explosive wideouts, Manuel Johnson??, have also hurt the Frogs and Austin Collie will probably have another big game (110 yards last year). No doubt though that this is the best defense the Cougars will have seen so far this year, but I'm pretty sure they have enough weapons to put 28 points + on the board. One big question mark is the availability of Michael Reed (WR) for BYU. He's a big part of the WR corp and keeps automatic double teams off of Pitta and Collie, but was hurt for the Wyoming and Utah State games. He played yesterday but took a pretty big lick over the middle and had to helped off the field with what looked like a back injury. I'm guessing it's not serious as he didn't look to bad. He is a big piece of this offense that you'll never hear about.

I don't really have much of a lean right now. I'd like to play the over probably as much as anything based upon the previous years matchups and the fact that both teams will have to throw the ball a lot. Both teams low scoring affairs' last weekend may lower the total a bit which would be nice. If Dalton plays I'd lean on TCU getting a FG or more. On the fence right now though.
 
Not sold on BYU myself, but was hoping for TCU +3. At this line, it's a no play for me.

You truly are the MWC guru!

By the way...just got this awesome MWC hoodie yesterday. I'm wearing it right now.

:smiley_acbe:
 
JPicks said:
If you like BYU you can get them as a PK right now on BM.
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That's tempting, particularly with the ?s surrounding Dalton (although he is improving).

In a game like this, I think I lean BYU at PK or better and I lean TCU at +3 or more.
 
Would be shocked if Dalton didnt play and there is no way BYU should be favored here . Absolutely no way IMO. TCU again and again for me. I dont think they went to CSU play and mix in Jackson at QB just a coast game . The defense returned to form after the opening drive and CSU did zip in the 2nd H . TCU not being favored is just wrong IMO . Look at BYU's joke schedule and they struggled badly @ Wash laying -8 . Remember the penalty causing the missed XP ? Then look what Oklahoma did to Wash and look at the game TCU played @ Oklahoma . If TCU almost won @ BYU last year even better IMO because they come in knowing they let that one get away ....
 
Dmoney416 said:
That's tempting, particularly with the ?s surrounding Dalton (although he is improving).

In a game like this, I think I lean BYU at PK or better and I lean TCU at +3 or more.
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Should put this in here as well.

Dalton Injury Update:

Injury update
TCU quarterback Andy Dalton (right knee) practiced Sunday night. Gary Patterson said he'll see how Dalton progresses this week to determine whether he'll start — or even play — but "right now he's looking better."
 
SportsNut said:
Would be shocked if Dalton didnt play and there is no way BYU should be favored here . Absolutely no way IMO. TCU again and again for me. I dont think they went to CSU play and mix in Jackson at QB just a coast game . The defense returned to form after the opening drive and CSU did zip in the 2nd H . TCU not being favored is just wrong IMO . Look at BYU's joke schedule and they struggled badly @ Wash laying -8 . Remember the penalty causing the missed XP ? Then look what Oklahoma did to Wash and look at the game TCU played @ Oklahoma . If TCU almost won @ BYU last year even better IMO because they come in knowing they let that one get away ....
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I also think Dalton plays and think TCU should probably be favored based on past results. They have won 16 games in a row so I'm not sure I have a huge problem with this game being a pick. TCU's defense played well @CSU because they played both safties 8 and 9 yards from the line of scrimmage daring the Rams to throw the ball on them. TCU got beat deep 4 times with one pass being completed out of bounds, one being completely underthrown, and two flat out drops by Ram receivers. BYU will not suffer from the same blunders imo. This entire game comes down to whether TCU can get pressure on Max Hall rushing 5 guys. BYU is #3 in the nation allowing 1 sack all year. TCU is #1 in the nation with 28 sacks. If TCU can pressure Hall w/out having to blitz much they'll probably win this game, but if they can't then Hall will pick them apart. So to make it easy on everybody just figure out who wins the TCU DL vs BYU OL battle. That is the game imo.
 
JPicks said:
I also think Dalton plays and think TCU should probably be favored based on past results. They have won 16 games in a row so I'm not sure I have a huge problem with this game being a pick. TCU's defense played well @CSU because they played both safties 8 and 9 yards from the line of scrimmage daring the Rams to throw the ball on them. TCU got beat deep 4 times with one pass being completed out of bounds, one being completely underthrown, and two flat out drops by Ram receivers. BYU will not suffer from the same blunders imo. This entire game comes down to whether TCU can get pressure on Max Hall rushing 5 guys. BYU is #3 in the nation allowing 1 sack all year. TCU is #1 in the nation with 28 sacks. If TCU can pressure Hall w/out having to blitz much they'll probably win this game, but if they can't then Hall will pick them apart. So to make it easy on everybody just figure out who wins the TCU DL vs BYU OL battle. That is the game imo.
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Just keeping this simple. BYU is overrated and there offense is even more overrated . The passing game is good but thats about it . Those consecutive home shutouts just distorted there value . They played 2 games worth mentioning @ Wash barely won and then NMexico who doesnt have its starting QB . They scored a TD to cut it 14-10 but it called back and then didnt punch it in and BYU at home sealed the game after that . TCU is alot better then both those teams .

Just feel like CSU game means zip . I know they had the drops on the long pass plays but really just get the feeling TCU just showed up that game . What matters to me in terms of comparision is the game last year . Whatever stats BYU has accumulated are meaningless to me just like the NYG in football today . Any solid team can spank bad teams . Look at ELi's games and look at his passer rating for the 4 coming to today . Retarded numbers vs STL and SEA who happen to be terrible . Think Wyoming and UCLA for BYU . Then medicore games vs Wash and Cincy two teams who play hard for 4 quarters with some talent . Enter @ Wash and vs NM for BYU . If BYU had bad offense stats including sacks vs that schedule they should be ashamed . Northern Iowa , UCLA , Wyoming and NM at home with a backup QB plus @ Wash and @ Utah State .

Just keeping it simple Dalton plays strong play for me and whatever happens I live with it . No way I can rate BYU as better then TCU so far and while I think the accurate line is TCU -3 would lay up to -6.5 in this one .

Good Luck . You got me with Navy and AF so this is something you know better then I but just what I felt before seeing a number . :cheers:
 
make sure to check the weather before you get your bets in, especially O/U. been humid all day today and looks like rain for the next couple of days, possibly extending into thursday night.

will be going to the game, hopefully the frogs can break their thursday night curse.
 
just can't see how you can possibly back a team that is favored on the road that will probably have less than 50 yards rushing...???
 
broadwayjoe said:
just can't see how you can possibly back a team that is favored on the road that will probably have less than 50 yards rushing...???
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I can see it. BYU drops their RB's out of the backfield and dumps off the ball to them time and time again. It's almost as if they are running plays, but with short 3 yard passes to get them in the open. Looking at past #'s here's out that has played out vs. TCU:

'05 BYU scored 50 points on 97 yards rushing but their RB's had 101 yards receiving.
'06 BYU scored 31 points on 72 yards rushing but their RB's had 60 yards receiving.
'07 BYU scored 27 points on 112 yards rushing and their RB's had 32 yards receiving.

If they can't run on TCU they'll just dump the ball off to them in the flats. Either way Unga will have 100+ yards of offense, but it may not come on the ground.
 
SportsNut said:
Just keeping this simple. BYU is overrated and there offense is even more overrated . The passing game is good but thats about it . Those consecutive home shutouts just distorted there value . They played 2 games worth mentioning @ Wash barely won and then NMexico who doesnt have its starting QB . They scored a TD to cut it 14-10 but it called back and then didnt punch it in and BYU at home sealed the game after that . TCU is alot better then both those teams .

Just feel like CSU game means zip . I know they had the drops on the long pass plays but really just get the feeling TCU just showed up that game . What matters to me in terms of comparision is the game last year . Whatever stats BYU has accumulated are meaningless to me just like the NYG in football today . Any solid team can spank bad teams . Look at ELi's games and look at his passer rating for the 4 coming to today . Retarded numbers vs STL and SEA who happen to be terrible . Think Wyoming and UCLA for BYU . Then medicore games vs Wash and Cincy two teams who play hard for 4 quarters with some talent . Enter @ Wash and vs NM for BYU . If BYU had bad offense stats including sacks vs that schedule they should be ashamed . Northern Iowa , UCLA , Wyoming and NM at home with a backup QB plus @ Wash and @ Utah State .

Just keeping it simple Dalton plays strong play for me and whatever happens I live with it . No way I can rate BYU as better then TCU so far and while I think the accurate line is TCU -3 would lay up to -6.5 in this one .

Good Luck . You got me with Navy and AF so this is something you know better then I but just what I felt before seeing a number . :cheers:
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I don't see how you can completely discount the CSU/TCU game and want to put so much weight on the NM/BYU game. Clearly neither team brought their A game. I personally don't judge BYU's offense exclusively based on this year. This is pretty much the exact same offense that torched the MWC last year. They are a proven commodity to me. The more I look at this game the more I realize that I won't be playing a side, but I don't think for a second that BYU's offense is overrated. Their running game may be a bit overrated as Unga hasn't done anything this year, but it's useless either way in this matchup. Collie, Pitta, and Reed combined with Hall make up one of the better aerial attacks in the nation especially when you consider that Hall is playing behind an NFL sized line.
 
tooltones said:
make sure to check the weather before you get your bets in, especially O/U. been humid all day today and looks like rain for the next couple of days, possibly extending into thursday night.

will be going to the game, hopefully the frogs can break their thursday night curse.
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I've read mid 70's with a 30% chance of rain showers? Rain only helps BYU as long as it's not a monsoon imo as it slows down TCU's overwhelming advantage at team speed. No rain and high humidity would certainly help the Frogs. Hope you have a great time at the game.
 
JPicks said:
I don't see how you can completely discount the CSU/TCU game and want to put so much weight on the NM/BYU game. Clearly neither team brought their A game. I personally don't judge BYU's offense exclusively based on this year. This is pretty much the exact same offense that torched the MWC last year. They are a proven commodity to me. The more I look at this game the more I realize that I won't be playing a side, but I don't think for a second that BYU's offense is overrated. Their running game may be a bit overrated as Unga hasn't done anything this year, but it's useless either way in this matchup. Collie, Pitta, and Reed combined with Hall make up one of the better aerial attacks in the nation especially when you consider that Hall is playing behind an NFL sized line.
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Trust me the NM game holds no more weight then any other BYU game . It's just what do you weigh with that schedule ? Northern Iowa ? UCLA ? Wyoming ? @ Utah State ?? Thats the problem . I am not saying look at how poor they played vs NM in the way it sounds . You cant weigh TCU last week and BYU last week in the same manner though IMO. First BYU was home and TCU wasnt then second TCU didnt even have its starting QB and even with that the line barely budged . There is just no way to look it for me other then BYU has played a terrible schedule and the 2 teams worth a darn that arent even very good played very competitively vs them. Just cant weigh a Texas team traveling to Colorado to play game with a primetime Thursday game on deck and ther QB out . At home teams should really never fall into the lookahead mindset IMO.

Cant explain because I know I dont know the teams as well as you do . I just going with my perceptions of the teams and my feel for what the line should be. BYU playing and blowing out Wyoming and UCLA is about as relevant IMO as if they played a DII school . Those teams are bad and on the road not sure what the word is for them .

With TCU vs the pass looking back @ Oklahoma very "fake: big plays IMO which were nearly half of Bradfords yards (he had 2 INTS as well) .

Bradford found Johnson for first-half scores of 76 and 55 yards on plays when his defender stumbled, and Johnson added another 63-yard TD in the third quarter on a screen pass to push the lead to 35-3.

Oklahoma struggled to get a running game going, picking up only 25 yards on 36 carries against a TCU defense that was giving up only 30.5 yards rushing per game, the least in the nation

"You can't give up big plays and win ball games," TCU coach Gary Patterson said. "A lot of that was my fault. I tried to blitz it ... I was trying to get them into downs where we could make them punt, and they made big plays.
"The bottom line to it is when we quit doing it as much, we played better defense."

Think 70 plays for 436 yds all day but 193 yds on 3 plays as well or 67 for 243 yds otherwise. Which they did run the ball alot to chew clock with a good sized lead . So they got 2 long TDs when the corner stumbled and another a screen when I assume the blitzed and got caught . Patterson acknowledges blitzing was a bad route and would assume he doesnt do it as much and relies more on his defense to do its job .

New Mexico coach Rocky Long was still livid about the call after the game. ( the td called back that would have made it 14-10 late 4th Q)

"I don't know if we would have won or not, but the officials obviously blew a call that changed the entire momentum of the game. It is criminal that they changed the momentum like that," Long said. "We might have still lost the game, but it should have been a hell of a game right until the end and the officials took that away from us."

To me Zona did more vs NM defense then BYU without the benefit of homefield . Cant dismiss a 23 pt fav who only scores 21pts all game and didnt get that last TD till 3 minutes to play. Interesting that TCU played @ NM early laying -6 and winning 27-3. Now that was early on and would be -14 to -16 minimum at TCU probably about -17 /-18 then factor in the loss of Porterie worth a good 3 points probably . So would expect -20/-21 if NM traveled to TCU today which obviously the -23 was to big this weekend so again worst case they come off as very equal teams IMO meaning HFA should be the spread ...

How bout at Utah State ? Think -28/-29 pt fav which scored only 34 pts which alone makes it disappointing . You could say they didnt try much in the th up 34-0 and I agree but they also got a defensive TD early so either way 34 is fairly accurate number to repreent there play . Hall had 2 INTs . Think 23/37 302 yds 2 TDs nothing special vs a terrible team and defense . Unga nothing special 86yds.

Wyoming ? Hall 16/27 180 yds 3tds . Doesnt strike me as explosive was it because they owned the Cowboys on the ground ? Not really 34c 163 yds is solid but unimpressive seeing a 44-0 game . Long run was 17 yds . Wyoming decent on defense but allowed BYU to defensive TDs of 44 pts and had a FG thanks to the ball inside the Wyoming red zone to start a drive so they earned 28 pts on offense . Only 364 yds total offense . Wyoming 6 turnovers as well ...

UCLA ? 3 cheap TDS of basically 30yd drives or less . Then UCLA had like 7 straight possessions where it had a turnover or every possession they had in the in the 2nd and 3rd q ! 2 missed FGs from 32 yds or less , 2 fumbles , INT and two TODs . Any suprise that BYU won those 2 quarters 52-0 ? 7 straiht turnovers !

@ Wash ? In Byus defense they had a turnover inside the 5 yd which was basically another a TD . However Wash defense is bad and the offense has 1 player Jake Locker .

so 6 unimpressive games in 2008 and you prefer to weigh the BYU offense on 2007 . SO what I am missing ?

Bowl Season

<TABLE class=data cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR><TD class=datahead width="26%">Date</TD><TD class=datahead width="24%">Vs</TD><TD class=datahead width="13%">Score</TD><TD class=datahead width="13%">Week</TD><TD class=datahead width="14%">BYU Line</TD><TD class=datahead width="10%">O/U</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 12/22/07</TD><TD>vs UCLA </TD><TD>W 17-16 </TD><TD>Bowl</TD><TD>L -6</TD><TD>U 46</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Regular Season

<TABLE class=data cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR><TD class=datahead width="26%">Date</TD><TD class=datahead width="24%">Vs</TD><TD class=datahead width="13%">Score</TD><TD class=datahead width="13%">Week</TD><TD class=datahead width="14%">BYU Line</TD><TD class=datahead width="10%">O/U</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 12/01/07</TD><TD>@ San Diego State </TD><TD>W 48-27 </TD><TD>Week 14</TD><TD>W -16.5</TD><TD>O 58.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 11/24/07</TD><TD>Utah </TD><TD>W 17-10 </TD><TD>Week 13</TD><TD>W -4.5</TD><TD>U 48</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 11/17/07</TD><TD>@ Wyoming </TD><TD>W 35-10 </TD><TD>Week 12</TD><TD>W -10</TD><TD>U 46</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Thursday 11/08/07</TD><TD>Texas Christian </TD><TD>W 27-22 </TD><TD>Week 11</TD><TD>L -7</TD><TD>O 46.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 11/03/07</TD><TD>Colorado State </TD><TD>W 35-16 </TD><TD>Week 10</TD><TD>L -21</TD><TD>U 54</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/20/07</TD><TD>Eastern Washington</TD><TD>W 42-7 </TD><TD>Week 8</TD><TD>N </TD><TD>N </TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/13/07</TD><TD>@ UNLV </TD><TD>W 24-14 </TD><TD>Week 7</TD><TD>L -12</TD><TD>U 51</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/29/07</TD><TD>@ New Mexico </TD><TD>W 31-24 </TD><TD>Week 5</TD><TD>W -3.5</TD><TD>O 54</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/22/07</TD><TD>Air Force </TD><TD>W 31-6 </TD><TD>Week 4</TD><TD>W -14</TD><TD>U 53.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/15/07</TD><TD>@ Tulsa </TD><TD>L 47-55 </TD><TD>Week 3</TD><TD>L -6.5</TD><TD>O 51</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/08/07</TD><TD>@ UCLA </TD><TD>L 17-27 </TD><TD>Week 2</TD><TD>L 8.5</TD><TD>U 47.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/01/07</TD><TD>Arizona </TD><TD>W 20-7 </TD><TD>Week 1</TD><TD>W -3.5</TD><TD>U 47.5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Again pretty soft schedule and how many times did they crack 35 ? Tulsa , EWU and SDST ? Enuff said IMO. They had 35 @ Wyoming and @ CSU then 31 or less in 8 games . Just what is explosive or impress about the offense ?

Hosted TCU last year and TCU settled for 3 red zone FGS and missed a late 2 pt conversion . Thats alot of points to leave off the board and generally when I see that given a similiar chance if they have those chances at home more likely those 3s become 7s . Hall 26/44 302 yds TD -INT , Unga 16c64yds 2TDs and again very avg type performances as Hall just under 7yds per attempt and Unga at 4 yds per carry. Also some close key plays again that are tough to make on the road ....

BYU stopped TCU three times on fourth downs in the second half and the defense also set up a score on TCU's only turnover of the game.
On the first series of the second half, Dalton threw a pass right to BYU linebacker Kelly Poppinga, who returned it 22 yards to the 3. Harvey Unga scored on the next play to put BYU up 24-9 with 13:58 left in the third quarter. It was the second touchdown of the game for Unga.
TCU brought in Marcus Jackson for Dalton in the next series and Jackson led the Frogs up the field. On third down at the 19, Jackson kept it on a run up the middle and lost the ball when he was tackled at the 5. BYU recovered in the end zone, but the call was reversed because Jackson was down when he fumbled.
Marcus Brock scored on a 1-yard run that cut the lead to 24-15 after the 2-point conversion failed.
BYU's defense came up with another key stop when TCU went for it on fourth-and-1 at the BYU 32 and Aaron Brown got knocked back a yard. The Cougars got the ball back and drove to the 11 for Mitch Payne's 29-yard field goal, which put BYU ahead 27-15 with 13:06 left.

Just see the game last year as very close and a few key plays made the difference . Dont see BYU making those same plays on the road when both teams are fairly similiar to the 2007 version .

Also interesting same week BYU hosts UCLA as only -8.5 pt favs granted off the BYE after Tenny win and Stanford plays @ TCU catching -15 . Two very similiar PAC 10 teams and while the scores look different really same type games IMO . Also shows how TCU was rated stronger then BYU IMO ...Again showing there is no way that thses teams schouldnt be considered equal and therefore TCU at home should be favored . How could BYU be like -9 maybe -10 pt favs at home this year which -1 @ TCU says IMO when they couldnt cover -7 last year at home.

I just dont see BYU as one of the better passing attacks in the college ranks . All the teams you think of OU , Texas Tech , Missouri , Okie State just teams who clearly are much better passing offenses . Just my opinion not saying they arent good but dont see more then 21 from them on Thursday . Cant get excited about decent stats vs bad teams ...:cheers:















 
gentlemen,

I thought I'd throw my two cents in...I have watched every one of BYU's games this year, and every one of TCU's games...I know that may not mean much to some of you, but I can tell you that I know these teams...TCU was a cunt hair away from losing to a terrible (and when I say terrible, I mean terrible) CSU team last week...it can not be dismissed, neither can Jackson's shaky (and that's putting it nicely) play at QB...people I talk to and stuff I read say that it's going to be very hard for Dalton, with his knee injury, to run the full TCU offense...Dalton isn't a guy that thrives as a drop back passer, he needs to roll out and run the option...a couple of hits to his knee and the TCU offense is in serious danger...Jackson is a HUGE drop-off at QB...I'm finishing up watching the UNM vs. BYU tape, no comparring BYU's performance this game vs. TCU almost losing to CSU...UNM always plays BYU tough, heck Mendenhall was Long's D Coordinator I believe...this game comes down to exactly what jpicks said, but I'd like it also to include BYU's WR and TE vs. the TCU secondary...I saw OU expose TCU's secondary, big time...TCU will give up the big play and I see BYU getting some here...TCU on the other hand has zero big play capability...they thrive on 13 and 15 play drives and settle for far too many field goals...field goals aren't going to beat BYU on Thursday, it's going to take TD's...and I see BYU scoring more TD's...don't get me wrong, this is going to be a very, very, very hard fought game, but Mendenhall will have his boys ready and they will weather any adversity that comes along...TCU may very well end up covering, but I couldn't consider that side unless I was getting at least three points...at the current number I feel a very small play on BYU is warranted...
 
TCU
NEW MEXICO-------171-56 rush, 120-130 pass, 3-1 TO’s
STANFORD----------233-71 rush, 145-122 pass, 3-0 TO’s
SMU----------------271-(-)8 rush, 227-218 pass, 3-0 TO’s
OKLAHOMA---------102-25 rush, 212-411 pass, 0-4 TO’s
SD STATE----------383- (-)13 rush, 115-98 pass, 1-1 TO’s
COL ST-------------151-11 rush, 166-188 pass, 3-2 TO’s

BYU
WASH-------------137-133 rush, 338-204 pass, 0-2 TO’s
UCLA--------------184-9 rush, 337-230 pass, 4-1 TO’s
WYOMING---------163-137 rush, 201-136 pass, 6-0 TO’s
UTAH ST----------103-129 rush, 303-193 pass, 4-2 TO’s
NEW MEX---------117-130 rush, 265-155 pass, 2-0 TO’s

Looking at this game, TCU is going to win the rushing battle, and IMO convincingly, as in by a much greater margin than the Oklahoma game. This is key.

When looking at last years statistics, the one thing I notice is TCU gave up yards rushing the ball LY. 176 to Texas, 146 to Air Force, 149 to SMU, 232 to Wyoming, 170 to Stanford, 107 to Utah, 112 to BYU.

This is a tougher TCU team and I think the 112 rushing BYU had last year will be cut in half at least. Stanford won the rushing battle with TCU last year 170-150, now Stanford is maybe a better rushing team this year!! and look what happened vs. TCU, 233-72 in favor of TCU.

The other side of the rushing battle, this BYU defense has given up over 100 in 4 games and this TCU offense, honestly, might be a tad better rushing. 100 on Oklahoma where last year they only had 43 on Texas. Lastly, look at the common opponent, New Mexico, and also look at the Washington rush stats for BYU and then compare to what Oregon, Okl, Stanford, and even Arizona, who is not a great rushing team, did to Washington. Here's the stats

256-63 Arizona
256-95 Oregon
274-87 Oklahoma
244-140 Stanford

Now conversely, BYU has the big edge with the pass. The only team TCU has faced with a passing attack was Oklahoma and they put 411 up. BYU hasn’t really faced anyone that can pass yet but they have been pretty good against it, and TCU is not a big passing team, although I think they are better than what their stats show, they did put up some 300 outings last year with nearly same personnel. BYU though is not as much of a downfield attack as Oklahoma I don't believe, and there shouldn't be as large amount of big plays.

-----When I look at this matchup, I think it compares favorably to the UCLA-BYU battle that took place twice last year. In the first meeting UCLA rushed for 110-44, outpassed 126-391, +2 TO's and won 27-17. In the bowl game UCLA rushed 162-34, outpassed 154-231, even TO's, and BYU won 17-16.

That says TCU should win. I do realize that TCU won the rushing battle vs. Oklahoma and still got killed, but I don't believe BYU can do that. Last year the TCU-BYU score was decided by 5 points. Now, TCU only won the rushing battle 130-112 and lost the passing battle 222-305. What is different this year, is the rushing battle is not even going to be close. BYU might win the passing battle, but IMO it will be by a smaller margin than the advantage TCU will have in the rushing department.

Does anyone here feel like relying on a team that is going to lose the battle at the line of scrimmage? This type of matchup happens every week in college football, last week I remember Stanford and Arizona. That's the most important thing, who is going to win the rushing battle and make one opponent one dimensional.

I saw TCU Dline #1 nationally in sacking the quarterback, but BYU is also #3 nationally in sacks allowed so it's a wash.





 
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pags11 said:
gentlemen,

I thought I'd throw my two cents in...I have watched every one of BYU's games this year, and every one of TCU's games...I know that may not mean much to some of you, but I can tell you that I know these teams...TCU was a cunt hair away from losing to a terrible (and when I say terrible, I mean terrible) CSU team last week...it can not be dismissed, neither can Jackson's shaky (and that's putting it nicely) play at QB...people I talk to and stuff I read say that it's going to be very hard for Dalton, with his knee injury, to run the full TCU offense...Dalton isn't a guy that thrives as a drop back passer, he needs to roll out and run the option...a couple of hits to his knee and the TCU offense is in serious danger...Jackson is a HUGE drop-off at QB...I'm finishing up watching the UNM vs. BYU tape, no comparring BYU's performance this game vs. TCU almost losing to CSU...UNM always plays BYU tough, heck Mendenhall was Long's D Coordinator I believe...this game comes down to exactly what jpicks said, but I'd like it also to include BYU's WR and TE vs. the TCU secondary...I saw OU expose TCU's secondary, big time...TCU will give up the big play and I see BYU getting some here...TCU on the other hand has zero big play capability...they thrive on 13 and 15 play drives and settle for far too many field goals...field goals aren't going to beat BYU on Thursday, it's going to take TD's...and I see BYU scoring more TD's...don't get me wrong, this is going to be a very, very, very hard fought game, but Mendenhall will have his boys ready and they will weather any adversity that comes along...TCU may very well end up covering, but I couldn't consider that side unless I was getting at least three points...at the current number I feel a very small play on BYU is warranted...
Click to expand...

CSU is bad for sure I dont understand how anyone can grade a road game vs a home game though . Its more then apples vs oranges . It just doesnt matter ever in any sport . No team looks the same on the road as it does at home . So again why do we care much about a game with a backup QB on the road ?? You really think NM is that much better ? TCU didnt play well granted buts its a road game and anything can happen on the road like what they did to SDST the week before at home another bad team . NM had a backup QB and what it looked like doesnt matter much to me in terms off competiveness . You had a team at home laying 23 pts . It didnt score 23 pts terrible IMO when you dont even score enough to equal the spread , 2nd played a medicore team which TCU beat by 3 TDs at its house with its starting QB but had 2nd and 3rd stringers playing and were a play away from looking at 14-10 with about 7 to play in the game , which was on its home field more importantly .

If Dalton is struggling to get healthy then I will pass as no way I want to ride with Jackson at less then +3 or +4 .

TCU is no doubt a grind it out offense relying on Dalton's legs . Just think while they can allow a big play here and there BYU is not the explosive offense its being made out to be . BYU has played nothing but JV talent . There opponents are so bad they better off not playing the games because they are that embarrassing . Its a joke when you look at the opposing QBs BYU has faced NIU , Jake Locker only good player and what happened ? , Kevin Craft , Wyoming is joke they ate so bad NM beat them 24-0 and Cowboys have been outscored 68-0 in 2 road games and 176-26 minus ND State and the opener ( are u kidding me 176-26 !!) , Utah State shuffling QBs and NM using a 2nd and 3rd stringer .

I couldnt care less what BYU looked like . To be honest if they dont look like USC vs that type opposition which they didnt then they dont look good IMO .How many 400 yd passing game for BYU ? None think the high was 302 thats high octane ?

I cant see how a screen and two busted plays for TDs show much for Oklahoma . Sustaining drives is more relevant not 3 fluke plays that accumulate 200yds .

TCU does have big lay ability though its just on there defense .

You can throw 2008 out of the season as TCU hasnt had many tests either and BYU is playing the Sisters of the Poor Nursing Home each week . Just look at the 2007 game alone TCU played @ BYU and a turnover led directly to 7 pts and missed shirt yardage play wound up swinging the moemntum and gibing up a FG . Thats 10 pts in a 5 pt game . BYU defense probably a shade worse then last years so no reason why TCU cant improve offensively and no reason to believe BYU will improve offensively playing @ TCU. BYU may hit a couple long balls but dont see them scoring much . The offense was solid @ Wash and struggled to a degree vs Utah State .

Think I am 4-1 in BYU games probably riding Wyoming . Just look at what a duel QB threat in Jake Locker did vs BYU .

Put it this way Pags I am sure we both have valid points here just like Hawaii and LaTech last weekend . I laid off until I saw +10 and LaTech had no problem moving the ball on offense vs Hawaii . If they didnt piss it away early they would have been in it till the end IMO . However LaTech is what it is a bad team and they found ways to lose and fuck up which lead to Hawaii making plays . I think when it was tied at 7 halfway through the 2nd Q the 1st downs were either 1 2or 16 to 4 for Hawaii . 1st H fumble at the Hawaii 3 , missed 2 FGs and fumble the ball at midfield after an LaTech score . Sloppy play . Hawaii really had no business winning with 12 penalties but you cant overcame missing 33yd FGs and fumbling at the opponent 3 in a scoreless game .

Just see BYU as #9 as wrong like Vandy being ranked .

See how it shakes out already played some TCU +1.5 because cant see anything less then a FG for TCU at home . Better is the fact that TCU played like shit @ COL State IMO as well .

BOL fellas .
 
JPicks said:
I can see it. BYU drops their RB's out of the backfield and dumps off the ball to them time and time again. It's almost as if they are running plays, but with short 3 yard passes to get them in the open. Looking at past #'s here's out that has played out vs. TCU:

'05 BYU scored 50 points on 97 yards rushing but their RB's had 101 yards receiving.
'06 BYU scored 31 points on 72 yards rushing but their RB's had 60 yards receiving.
'07 BYU scored 27 points on 112 yards rushing and their RB's had 32 yards receiving.

If they can't run on TCU they'll just dump the ball off to them in the flats. Either way Unga will have 100+ yards of offense, but it may not come on the ground.
Click to expand...

that's a nice tidbit jpicks, thanks.

tcu has historically played like shit away from home compared to at home; byu is also a different team. plus tcu had to be looking ahead to this game; i hold little weight to that csu game.

also, some of you are saying ou exploited their secondary; well ou has exploited everyone's secondary. they are such a balanced offense that tcu had to be ready for the run even though that's their strength. they don't have to be as geared up to stop the run and can gameplan towards the pass here.

nut, i agree with most of what you said, but byu deserves to be ranked, and i don't see the vandy comparisons...they're a much better team that vandy imo...

should be one helluva game between 2 teams imo who are legit top 20 teams.
 
In a rush right now but great stuff guys. Also don't forget that TCU has a mental hurdle to clear on Thursday nights as they are 1-4 while BYU is 3-0 including 2-0 vs. TCU.
 
Starting quarterback Andy Dalton, who missed the past two games with a right knee injury, continues to look better in practice, and he even has sprinted. Gary Patterson said he’s not sure if Dalton will be the Frogs’ starter.
 
Liking TCU here, but Dalton has to play. Think the Horned Frogs win this game throwing the ball.
 
Why is BYU only favored by 1 against a very over rated TCU squad??????? can someone explain this to me
 
forget my last post, didn't have my morning coffee yet...
TCU has had trouble playing against QB's who can stand in the pocket and deliever a ball on target. I got to see them play against OU, yes it was OU, but they were definately exposed, and teams that has similar atheletes can break this squad. TCU is allowing an amazing ONLY 20 yards per game to opp. on the ground but if you look closer, most of those opp. ranks LAST in the nation in rushing. I believe TCU will get exposed by Max Hall who is playing tremendous at the quarterback position. He has a QB rating of 170 and has 20 TD with ONLY 4 picks in 6 games thus far in the season. I agree BYU is overrated also, considering they have alot of trouble stopping the run and it won't get any easier this week going against a team that LOVES to pound the ball on the ground. I actually now see this going either way, but I still lean BYU if they can figure a way to shut down the run. I see this game ending as a 3 point victory for one one of the team
 
ddk997 said:
Why is BYU only favored by 1 against a very over rated TCU squad??????? can someone explain this to me
Click to expand...
:36_11_6::36_11_6::36_11_6:

if this is what the gen public is thinking, and what linesmakers are banking on in setting the line here, please gimme TCU

:shake:
 
CapTwo said:
:36_11_6::36_11_6::36_11_6:

if this is what the gen public is thinking, and what linesmakers are banking on in setting the line here, please gimme TCU

:shake:
Click to expand...


kinda like the giants last night ay??:36_11_6: :shake:
 
I don't know...can't get too much into comparisons of similar opponents, but I do know:

- BYU was lucky to win SU in Seattle
- TCU manhandled Stanford at home
- Stanford kicked Washington all over the field...also in Seattle and yes, Locker went out in the 2nd quarter of this game.

Not a ton to go on, but the more I look at this game, the more I wonder why TCU isn't being given HFA by the oddsmakers and laying 3 to 4 points.

DDK, Comparing OU athletes to BYU athletes is a bit of a stretch, no?

I'm trying to think of what I've seen on the field that says BYU is the better team and deserves to be a small favorite or pick here? Honestly, I laid the chalk with BYU against Wyoming and watched the first 3 quarters; BYU struggled mightily on offense early on in that game and only scored so much because of all the TO's (esp in the 2nd Q) by Wyoming. Same thing with the UCLA game. Those two blowouts are what is, IMO, giving us line value in TCU. Better defense, better run game and at home getting a point or two? Think I may be signing up for this...
 
Most guys are making good points to back TCU, but I don't understand why so many of you are willing to shrug off TCU's most recent performance against a deplorable Colo St squad!

I doubt I bet this game, but I have to side with BYU here.
 
TCU was awful last week, and should have lost that game outright . They didn't have it on cruise-control, either. They were getting their asses whooped by a purportedly inferior team, the excuse due to a "look-ahead" game with BYU. You can't make that excuse for TCU and not for BYU.

That said, UNM would beat CSU by DD anywhere at anytime.
 
broadwayjoe said:
that's a nice tidbit jpicks, thanks.

tcu has historically played like shit away from home compared to at home; byu is also a different team. plus tcu had to be looking ahead to this game; i hold little weight to that csu game.

also, some of you are saying ou exploited their secondary; well ou has exploited everyone's secondary. they are such a balanced offense that tcu had to be ready for the run even though that's their strength. they don't have to be as geared up to stop the run and can gameplan towards the pass here.

nut, i agree with most of what you said, but byu deserves to be ranked, and i don't see the vandy comparisons...they're a much better team that vandy imo...

should be one helluva game between 2 teams imo who are legit top 20 teams.
Click to expand...

Late at night I make many errors and probably come of with a poor tone . So let me rephrase some of my comments to everyone .

I didnt mean to imply that BYU did not deserve to be ranked what I was trying to say was based on there schedule putting them at #9 in the country is absurd IMO . Without doing research I see BYU as Top 25 team but in the bottom 1 / 5th around #21 to #25 . I could probably reel off 40 teams who could be undefeated with the same type lopsided margin in PF (points for ) and PA (points allowed) . It's just need impressive in fact IMO its unimpressive because the offense has not lead out and destroyed these teams . Its been opponent miscues setting up the BYU offense .

I know I keep harping on opponents for BYU but its because of the perception of strength of this team.

Northern Iowa - started a QB making his 1st career start . I guess the kid Grace is a dual threat for them and while the numbers are skewed by his 69 yd run the fact he did get a 69yd run is telling . The score is misleading because BYU had the fumbles in the 2nd H killing 3 drives and even giving a quick TD UNI . Still BYU got that back with 2 short TD drives and 2 medium TD drives (medium is less then 60yds but greater then 40/45yds IMO) . So Hall had 486yds but really because BYU had so many possessions think about 13 drives . Great 34-41 but again look at the competition . So an MVC team playing its 1st game of the year on the road vs a team with TOP 25 expectations and talents . Hardly a fair shake for NIU when you add in Grace's 1st start at QB .

@ WASH - firmly believe that despite the fact Wash U missed the tying XP that BYU deserved to win . After they tied it up at 21 they held Wash to a punt and went from there own 3 to the WASH 1 before fumbling . Then held Wash U again and punted before scoring again to finally take that 28-21 lead but the defense couldnt hold . Actually the Wash 2nd H one of the better performances by BYUs offense with 3 long drives but after the initial 3 and out on the opening drive they really didnt hold them to any 3 and outs the rest of the way . Which is interesting since while Dalton is not as gifted as Locker he probably has more talent around him then Locker does. Now to show something about Wash look at the next week after BYU they play Oklahoma . Oklahoma had 600 yds of offense and put up 55 pts leading at one point 41-0 early 3rd quarter . While Hall had 338 yds passing @ Wash on 30/41 the Bradford kid had 301 yds on 18 for 21 5TDs and even a 1yd TD run (basically same production on half the opps). OKL had 8 TDs on 10 possession through 3 quarters . They had 5 good drives from 68-89 yds , 1 short one right before half of 24 yds and 2 medium ones of 51 and 47 . Along with a 47yd drive that started at there own 3 and lead to a punt . OU even had 11 penalties for 100 yds so it wasnt even a perfect game but damn close . To me this shows 2 things . How weak the WASH defense really is and just look at every game they played but also how explosive the Oklahoma really is and how solid but far from elite BYUs offense is . Best case BYU gets 35 pts @ Washington where OU had 55 after 3 quarters . Just shows the tremendous difference in offenses IMO besides the obvious OU talent vs BYU talent . Even more telling BYU fails to go in to Wash as 8 pt favs and cover barely winning SU so the line was a tad fat . Say it should have been a TD for arguements sake (-7 @ wash) . Whats the number if BYU hosts Wash -15 maybe -16 ?? Oklahoma goes there as -21 favs and smokes them clear as day so line was probably to short . Actually had OU that day . Now Wash what would they be @ Oklahoma +31 maybe more like +35 ? So just o get a feel of the difference bewteen OU and BYU we are looking at probably a good 18-20 pt difference in terms of spread on a neutral field which puts OU about at worst -21 vs BYU . Now look at the TCU game at OKL and ask what is unimpressive or negative about that ? They were 18.5 pt dogs losing by 25 so spread a tad short say -20 /-21 was accurate . They acknoweldged the wrong game plan with to much emphasis on the blitz . As Joe said they had to respect the running game of OU as well with BYU not so as UNGA is solid but a grinder who usually doesnt break many 10+ yd runs and few if ever gets 20+ yds. So again on paper in terms of spreads there is just no way to say BYU and TCU are not EQUAL on a neutral field . So whatever adjustments one makes and home field is worth more then 3 pts it still should be less then TCU -3 with Dalton starting and probably shouldnt be less then -4 .

TCU is hamstrung by the fact its not a team lead by offense but a very solid defense . With that in mind its tough to go to Oklahoma and remain competitive because OU has a solid defense as well and one of the best offenses in the country with one of the best pass attacks in the country . In TCU defense they went on the road and shut down a very good run game . The passing game made plays but players stumbling in the secondary and a 60 yd screen pass arent all that impressive as the stats suggest . It happened still but would it happen again if they met is the question I ask ?

Now on to hosting Wyoming and UCLA . I believe I backed Wyoming because again the BYU offense wasnt impressing me . Think if they get 31-35 pts best case I have a shot but of course Wyoming handed them 17 poiints in a 44-0 game and well I expected a TD somewhere . So the +28 was well thought out my part but I didnt weigh properly how bad Wyoming truly was on offense not expecting them to give easy points away . Anyway not luck to cover but needed help from Wyoming to do so . 44-0 on a -28 with 17 pts directly due to turnovers . Not impressive . Hall 16-27 189 3TDs vs a decent defense . Huge was the fact Wyoming was driving on the opening possession around BYU35 and fumbles to go for 6 the other way . Wyoming scores and maybe they play better after rather then feeling like here we go again ! Which by the way BYU didnt score its 1st offensive TD till 6 remianing before half so 44-0 misleading IMO .

With UCLA pounded BYU at -8.5 as it was obvious that UCLA was due for a HUGE letdown after a gift win at home vs Tenny . So I knew this game should have been more like -13. Again though misleading final . Nothing is more telling the game log .

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=560 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=275><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblhead><TH colSpan=6>UCLA Drives</TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>1st Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>15:00 </TD><TD class=c>2:01 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 20</TD><TD class=c>3</TD><TD class=c>9</TD><TD class=c>Punt</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>8:09 </TD><TD class=c>1:49 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 20</TD><TD class=c>5</TD><TD class=c>17</TD><TD class=c>Punt</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>5:50 </TD><TD class=c>1:34 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 39</TD><TD class=c>3</TD><TD class=c>9</TD><TD class=c>Punt</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD colSpan=6> </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>2nd Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>14:22 </TD><TD class=c>1:12 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 38</TD><TD class=c>3</TD><TD class=c>-1</TD><TD class=c>Fumble</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>12:59 </TD><TD class=c>0:29 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 20</TD><TD class=c>2</TD><TD class=c>12</TD><TD class=c>Fumble</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>9:34 </TD><TD class=c>2:41 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 45</TD><TD class=c>9</TD><TD class=c>40</TD><TD class=c>FG Miss</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>0:15 </TD><TD class=c>0:15 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 40</TD><TD class=c>3</TD><TD class=c>11</TD><TD class=c>End Half</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD colSpan=6> </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>3rd Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>12:42 </TD><TD class=c>1:26 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 43</TD><TD class=c>6</TD><TD class=c>26</TD><TD class=c>Downs</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>7:36 </TD><TD class=c>1:03 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 34</TD><TD class=c>4</TD><TD class=c>9</TD><TD class=c>Downs</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>3:08 </TD><TD class=c>1:53 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 20</TD><TD class=c>4</TD><TD class=c>11</TD><TD class=c>Int</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>0:33 </TD><TD class=c>4:55 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 43</TD><TD class=c>10</TD><TD class=c>47</TD><TD class=c>FG Miss</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD colSpan=6> </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>4th Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>6:34 </TD><TD class=c>2:35 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 20</TD><TD class=c>5</TD><TD class=c>30</TD><TD class=c>Punt</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD width=10></TD><TD vAlign=top width=275><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblhead><TH colSpan=6>BYU Drives</TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>1st Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>12:59 </TD><TD class=c>4:50 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 25</TD><TD class=c>11</TD><TD class=c>75</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>6:20 </TD><TD class=c>0:30 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 18</TD><TD class=c>3</TD><TD class=c>0</TD><TD class=c>Punt</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>4:16 </TD><TD class=c>4:46 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 20</TD><TD class=c>13</TD><TD class=c>80</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD colSpan=6> </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>2nd Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>13:10 </TD><TD class=c>0:11 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 37</TD><TD class=c>1</TD><TD class=c>37</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>12:30 </TD><TD class=c>2:23 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 30</TD><TD class=c>5</TD><TD class=c>30</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>10:07 </TD><TD class=c>0:25 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 1</TD><TD class=c>3</TD><TD class=c>25</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>6:53 </TD><TD class=c>6:38 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 47</TD><TD class=c>13</TD><TD class=c>53</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD colSpan=6> </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>3rd Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>14:52 </TD><TD class=c>2:10 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 34</TD><TD class=c>6</TD><TD class=c>21</TD><TD class=c>Int</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>11:16 </TD><TD class=c>3:33 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 32</TD><TD class=c>7</TD><TD class=c>68</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>6:33 </TD><TD class=c>3:25 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 43</TD><TD class=c>6</TD><TD class=c>36</TD><TD class=c>FG</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>1:15 </TD><TD class=c>0:36 </TD><TD class=c>UCLA 16</TD><TD class=c>2</TD><TD class=c>16</TD><TD class=c>TD</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD colSpan=6> </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblhead2><TH colSpan=6>4th Quarter </TH></TR><TR class=ysptblhead3><TH>Start
Time</TH><TH>Time
Poss</TH><TH>Drive
Began</TH><TH># of
Plays</TH><TH>Yards
Gained</TH><TH vAlign=top>Result</TH></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=c>10:38 </TD><TD class=c>4:04 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 20</TD><TD class=c>7</TD><TD class=c>30</TD><TD class=c>Punt</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=c>3:59 </TD><TD class=c>3:59 </TD><TD class=c>BYU 12</TD><TD class=c>9</TD><TD class=c>34</TD><TD class=c>End Reg



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Again great job by BYU in the 1st Q to go up 14-0 but where the game is skewed is in teh 2nd and 3rd Qs. How does a team basically have 7 straight turnovers ? To me FG misses from 30 yds are turnovers because they kill you momentum wise . Now in that span BYU outscored then 52-0 . Worst case the Bruins should have put up 6 points in that span and they had defensive TD , 16yd TD drive , 25 yd , 30 yd and 37yd TD drive ! Thats 35 points in a blink alone . Outside of the 37yd drive the 2 longest wer 53 and 68 which the 53 yd drive took 13 plays !

So near impossible for BYU not be scoring at will looking at field position and situation for UCLA who got the breaks the previous week and now watched everything go against them .

@ Utah State - One of the worst teams in the country w
ith trouble on offense and no clear QB . Granted it was 34-0 after 3 quarters and BYU took off the last quarter in some ways . Still BYU didnt explode on tem by any means . Again huge 4 TD fav and they were overvalued barely scoring enough to cover the spread which they did not after Utah State goton the board .

vs NMexico- Again 23 pt favs and to fat . Still though look at the fact they are 23 pt favs and NM is bad enough to go in catching 23 points . NM playing 2nd and 3rd string QBs as well nearly made it interesting with the TD called back that made it 14-10 late . It didnt stand and BYU iced but 21-3 against a clearly inferior team .

So bad competition and for me nothing that looks remotely impressive .

TCU - No doubt unimpressive @ CSU but still Dalton is out and you have a texas team in chilly /cold COL . Not sure I believe they wanted to be there . That type of game at home would concern me but human nature has to factor in to some degree . TCU is not the type team who can just show up and put up points either . So the scare part is really the defense allowing some CSU WRs to beat them but drop the ball . Do we know if TCU even respected the CSU offense ? Maybe it was a good thing to happen for them as a wakeup call in the sense we need to make the effort every week and not coast . I am clearly implying but much rather have TCU off on a shit performance then a perfect performance .

They played a near perfect game the week before vs a bad SDST team . Also with its backup QB Marcus Jackson . Is SDST who did lose Lindley in the game any worse then Wyoming ? They are probably better then Wyoming at this point and with its 2nd team QB shut them down and put up 41 pts. TCU only had 20 at half but left 2 balls inside the 5yd line that went for FGs and maybe Dalton punches those in .

They played much better then 34-14 vs Stanford who is IMO much better then UCLA . Stanford has a much better running game then most people know and just a solid team on both sides of the ball . TCU wasnt very good on offense by any stretch with 34 ,51 and 13 yd TD drives but Stanford also had a punt block for a TD . However that is what TCU does every week . Play very solid defense leading to good starting field position and adds solid return games into the equation. TCU needs short fields I dont deny that but thats nothing new . I dont think BYU defense is any better then Stanford's.

@ SMU a team with a talented young QB and spread offense . They win 48-7 on the road . Have to think SMU is somewhere along thelines of a WaSH and clearly better then Utah State. So while not impressive in nature basically TCU went to SMU and took care of business unlike BYU at Wash and Utah State .

@ NM the same team that hung around with BYU but without its starting QB th Frogs won 26-3 on teh road. Which NM does own a win vs Zona at home as well . Just typical TCU holding NM to less then 200 yds of offense .....

So one bad game for TCU isnt going to scare me while just constant decent games vs bad teams doesnt impressive about BYU .

They are different but equal IMO . I just cant get past the fact BYU is road chalk as there is nothing besides being ranked #9 that says on a neutral field BYU is stronger . Everything says at worst they are equal . Also go back to last year . BYU only -7 at home which implies they are slightily stronger but also didnt cover and need a few breaks to win . So really at best what was BYU -3 vs TCU last year on a neutral field ? At best probably closer to -1.5 IMO . So say the teams are the same as 2007 and still that means your looking at TCU as -2 pt favs .....

Hope my time spent doesnt go to waste with Dalton not playing but I think knowing the cold weather at Colorado its was the smart move.

Like I said all of you guys know these teams better then I do and I have my own approach . For me this screams play on TCU much in the manner the Cle Browns did yesterday . Lot of similiarities IMO . Love how Dalton has zero passing TDs so far as well .

Obviously I have nothing more to add really here. Not real worried about the TCU 1-5 trend on Thursdays without a list if the 6 games.

BOL all :cheers:



 
Blue_Chip said:
Most guys are making good points to back TCU, but I don't understand why so many of you are willing to shrug off TCU's most recent performance against a deplorable Colo St squad!

I doubt I bet this game, but I have to side with BYU here.
Click to expand...

1. Road game for a Texas team in COL weather
2. backup QB played
3. only game they really underperformed all season
4 see at least 3 or 4 games where BYU underperformed
5. when better to back a team off a bad performance or its best performance ? Also no one includes the perfect game vs SDST the week before . Everything works in extreme . So after a perfect game is a letdown shocking ?

Thats my reasoning . COl State isnt much worse then NMex. If BYU beats NM 14-10 is there a difference ? To me a huge one . It was home and not with there backup QB. Also how is Col St terrible ?? They won vs Houston and UNLV at home while the lost by 3 TDs to Colorado it was mostly a 2nd H disparity where COL just threw the ball real well. COL has regressed reecntly since losing players on the OL . Everyone forgets they were jumping on CU @ FSU just a few weeks back I guess . They played 1 road game @ CAL and did a solid job . They limited the Cal offense but mistakes killed them . CSU just doesnt have much of an offense but whats wrong with there defense ? In fact I would say CSU is better then NM actually much better with NM down its starting QB. So think know that I looked closer at CSU you guys are way mistaken about them . There defense has been nothing but solid last 4 weeks . So TCU playing its backup QB struggling on offense not that shocking .

 
counselor said:
TCU was awful last week, and should have lost that game outright . They didn't have it on cruise-control, either. They were getting their asses whooped by a purportedly inferior team, the excuse due to a "look-ahead" game with BYU. You can't make that excuse for TCU and not for BYU.

That said, UNM would beat CSU by DD anywhere at anytime.
Click to expand...

No way . In fact I cant wait to see what BYU does @ CSU in a few weeks .

What are you looking at with NM ?
at home lost by 23 to TCU
at home lost by 6 to A&M thanks to a late rally
at home beat ZOna by 8 thanks to ZOna 6 turnovers with Porterie most importantly
lost by 42 @ Tulsa
won by 11 @ NMST who is terrible and needed a huge rally to do so 25-7 2nd H .
won by 24 at home vs Wyoming

Thats better then beating Houston and UNLV at home ? They have a good win vs Arizona who doesnt travel well and nothing else . While the Zona team is better then Houston its a similiartype win over a high powered offense .

So getting abused by Tulsa is impressive ? Col State wentto Cal after the Beras had a BYE and lost @ Maryland any better spot to get your ass whipped ?

Yet while they lost 42-7 that included in a punt return , int return and punt block for a TD and then 2 4th Q offensive TDs.

Yards CSU 351 to Cal 348 granted they had a big advantage in plays ran but this is @ CAL ! Think Cal had 4 punts in its 1st 8 possessions which 3 were 3 and outs .....

Same caliber team IMO and would guess CSU beats them . :cheers:




 
I agree SN, Colorado St would be PK or -1 @ home to New Mexico and I don't see why people are saying they are horrible. If they're horrible, wtf are my Aztecs? Colorado St is not horrible; if anything, they are overachieving according to projections this year and the UNLV win was quite impressive, considering whom the Rebels have beaten. This was clearly a tough trip for TCU into foul weather, 5 days prior to a gm with national implications against a well coached team (I like Fairbanks already) and surprise, surprise...they didn't look so good because they don't have an explosive offense to bail them out and they were playing with their b/u QB. I need to know Dalton will be healthy for this game, but if he is, I see TCU having yardage and FD advantages.
 
horses said:
I agree SN, Colorado St would be PK or -1 @ home to New Mexico and I don't see why people are saying they are horrible. If they're horrible, wtf are my Aztecs? Colorado St is not horrible; if anything, they are overachieving according to projections this year and the UNLV win was quite impressive, considering whom the Rebels have beaten. This was clearly a tough trip for TCU into foul weather, 5 days prior to a gm with national implications against a well coached team (I like Fairbanks already) and surprise, surprise...they didn't look so good because they don't have an explosive offense to bail them out and they were playing with their b/u QB. I need to know Dalton will be healthy for this game, but if he is, I see TCU having yardage and FD advantages.
Click to expand...

Wish I could have been so precise and short . Sums up my feelings . Thanks . :cheers:
 
CSU played in the same fucking weather! And it wasn't that foul! Watched the whole gotdamn game! It's not like it was pouring down fucking buckets or snowing or even fucking windy! They were undisciplined as fuck in their coverage. They were careless with the ball. They made stupid penalties. They were extremely fortunate to win that game.

And who exactly have the Rebels beaten? Utah St.? ASU? ISU? I presume I'm supposed to be impressed, but in retrospect, are these really feathers in their caps?

You keep talking about SOS and the weak schedule BYU has played, I see one team on TCU's schedule so far that is legit. And they got smoked.

Go ahead and rank TCU as a legit Top 20 team if you like, keep talking them up, and throw down hard on the Frogs and let all the poor fools throw caution to the wind as well as good sense, but I've watched them play twice, and came away both times unimpressed. I'm not saying I'm playing BYU, but I'm definately not buying an overrated TCU team.
 
Why is TCU the only team in America that does not apply to the trap game letdown situation???

TCU had DOMINATED their opponents except Oklahoma, for 6 straight weeks. TCU then went on the road to play CSU in bad conditions knowing they had BYU next on deck and they had a SHORT WEEK, a Thursday game. Maybe some BYU prep was done during CSU week. You can't play dominate ball every game, in fact a team can only get up 4 or 5 times a year to play at maximum effort.

---fellas, don't let one week beat you twice, as I know many thought TCU would kill.

The TCU secondary question is a good one. That is the one advantage BYU has here. I think we can all agree Oklahoma is more eplosive and has more playmakers than BYU. I would also argue that the BYU offense not only does not have as many playmakers, but it is more of a dink and dunk offense although I may be wrong.

TCU is not Texas young in their secondary. This year both starting cb's return. The SS Hodge returned. The only loss was the WS position, as well as FS, although Steven Coleman, a former starter who lost his job steps in so he has started before.

---Oklahoma is a team that can put 400 yards passing on you. Let's not overreact from that one performance. IMO I agree BYU is going to pass on TCU, but, as long as they can limit the big play and make them methodically gain passing yards, TCU wins this game easy. BYU has outpassed TCU the past several years and the score has been close has it not. The TCU rush edge trumps these prior years folks and makes last years 6 point differential up easily. Look at the UCLA-BYU games, the team that won the passing battle and lost the rushing battle was the worse team.

Give me something like a 170-38 rushing edge TCU in this game.
 
counselor easy man; just a game discussion haha. gettin a little too fired up aren't we?

i have a couple of questions to those who think tcu is so overrated. they got smoked to ou, yes. but oklahoma hasn't scored under 35 pts all year, and tcu was on the road there. they're at home now, and despite your opinions on the csu game, (which considering the other dominating games against inferior teams i can't see how you hold more weight to that -- fact is they found a way to win a game they played awful in on the road in conference; everyone slides and slips in conference play against inferior opponents). i didn't see the game, but if they had a backup qb that adds to the lack of substance this game should have. i'm not one that thinks byu's schedule is so much weaker or they haven't been impressive...schedules look about the same as far as strength to me, and they have both dominated at times. i just don't know how you can be so sure that tcu is overrated by their play this year. they have held down a variety of offense types. as long as they can make byu one dimensional they should have a good chance of being successful defensively.

the above isn't really what i would be concerned with here as a byu backer. looking at last year's game in utah, tcu played a very solid, even game. the score was close, most of the stats were close, they held unga in check. hall did his damage, but for the most part it was a pretty even game. this year the venue switches, tcu is better and more experienced than they were last year, and byu may be better offensively, but they didn't have the same weaknesses in their secondary last year as they do now. and, tcu's run defense is even better. so unga should be held down (at least imo, i know you disagree jpicks), and dalton, who found 9 different receivers last year, is throwing against a weaker secondary. pretty impressive how they played when they were clearly the inferior team and on the road last year. this year the teams have evened up, and now they get them at home.

jpicks, as far as a mental hurdle of thursday night games, do you really think the players hold any weight to this stat? not saying they don't, but if i were playing, i doubt i'd know or care about something like that to the extent that it would affect my play...i know it's something we might look at as cappers, but i'm not convinced this is as relative in the players' minds...maybe i'm wrong
 
I think Unga will be held in check as far as rushing stats go, but he'll more than likely catch 50 yards out of the backfield. As far as the Thursday night thing goes I only bring it up because Patterson is always talking about it during this pressers. He hates Thursday night games and openly admits that he doesn't know why they struggle on weekday games. So, yes I think the players know about it, but it's not a big enough reason for me to play one side or the other.

Some great discussion in here in fellas. Some more injury notes concerning TCU:

Secondary help

Cornerback Jason Teague (rFr originally signed by LSU) and strong safety Sir Demarco Bledsoe (Stephen Hodge's backup) continue to improve and they’ve been seeing plenty of practice time the past two weeks. Having the two ready could help with depth against BYU’s eighth-ranked passing offense (320.5 yards per game). Teague injured his knee during two-a-days and Bledsoe missed the first five games for violating university policy.
 
thanks jpicks....i did not know that patterson acknowledged those struggles and talked about them publicly....i can see where that could make a difference in that case
 
No problem broadwayjoe. I'll see if I can get a quote from him or better yet when my Tivo gets around to recording the coaches show toss up a youtube video of him talking about it.

As far as the total goes the over looks to be a lock. ;)


Two For The Money Free Pick


We're going to look ahead to Thursday night, where I like the under in the Mountain West clash between Brigham Young and Texas Christian. Both teams, known for the offensive ways in the past, have shown us defensive prowess this season and should be able to stay under the posted total of 47.

BYU has allowed an average of 10.1 points per game this season, has shut out two opponents, and comes in off stifling defensive performance in 1 21-3 win against New Mexico. TCU, meanwhile, has given up an average of 11.4 points per game this season, and has held five of seven opponents to single digits.

One thing that has me confident the Horned Frogs can keep BYU in check is because they did it to Oklahoma, albeit it was a 35-10 road loss. TCU is one of only two teams to hold the Sooners below 49 points this season, the other being Texas this past Saturday. There's nothing to look ahead to, as the Frogs have lowly Wyoming on deck, so all the focus will be using the nation's No. 1 defense to stop ninth-ranked BYU.

The Cougars have the second-best scoring defense in the nation, and the fifth-best turnover margin (+1.5) in the country. Their total defense ranks No. 31, but knowing they'll be in for a physical tussle in Fort Worth, I'm banking on a rugged game from BYU as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if the final margin ends up right where the books have this game, at -1 for either team, and I also wouldn't be surprised if the total flirts past the 40-point mark. But somehow the final tally will find itself under the posted price.



Free Pick: 3* Under BYU/TCU
(on a 1* to 5* Scale)
 
Couldn't agree more with SportsNut and horses here. People keep smashing on a decent CSU team.

Lean to TCU for all the reasons listed above.
 
counselor said:
CSU played in the same fucking weather! And it wasn't that foul! Watched the whole gotdamn game! It's not like it was pouring down fucking buckets or snowing or even fucking windy! They were undisciplined as fuck in their coverage. They were careless with the ball. They made stupid penalties. They were extremely fortunate to win that game.

And who exactly have the Rebels beaten? Utah St.? ASU? ISU? I presume I'm supposed to be impressed, but in retrospect, are these really feathers in their caps?

You keep talking about SOS and the weak schedule BYU has played, I see one team on TCU's schedule so far that is legit. And they got smoked.

Go ahead and rank TCU as a legit Top 20 team if you like, keep talking them up, and throw down hard on the Frogs and let all the poor fools throw caution to the wind as well as good sense, but I've watched them play twice, and came away both times unimpressed. I'm not saying I'm playing BYU, but I'm definately not buying an overrated TCU team.
Click to expand...

True they played in the same weather but in football dont we always look to fade warm climate teams in cold climate venues ? I have used that angle for a long time . The cool climate teams wear down in the heat and humidity much quicker then normal and just as tough to go from hot and warm to cold . It wasnt freezing but it wasnt warm either and something out of the ordinary for TCU who played only @ SMU and @ OU.

And still had they lost why is losing @ CSU so bad ? Houstons a pretty solid team pretty sure they can beat BYU and they lost @ CSU ....

How is TCU overrated as an underdog ?? I think your making the mistake about grading a blue collar team on performance . The only thing that matters with defense first teams is wins . How many ugly wins do the Titans have this year in the NFL? Case closed on TCU being overrated . TCU doesnt win games by looking good they win because there defense is game changing .

BYU is so much more overrated as top 10 team . I could name 40 teams as good or better then BYU .

People can continually say I watched this team and so and so . I just dont care because no one rationalizes it properly. Situations dictate results in every walk of life . Situations constantly change and therefore one cant weigh what happened as the ultimate truth . Does it take watching a team to know that they consistently lose the battle atthe line of scrimmage ? No its take 5 minutes to see there defense allows 35+ pts a week and there offense is lucky to get 10+ . People are knocking TCU as overrated for losing @ Oklahoma 35-10 ? The same OU team that beat WASH who BYU snuck by 55-14 ? TCU played like crap @ OU thats fine what did you expect from an 19pt dog ? A game decided by 7 points ? They are supposed to lose by 3 TDS thats why there are huge underdogs . When Byu cant beat a shit team its favored by 4 TDs against thats a MUCH bigger negative reflection then TCU losing by 25 @ OKL. Now how is a team with its backup QB laying 2 TDs on the road (-15.5) ? Col State was only +6 vs Houston and won SU , TCU was only -6 @ NM with Dalton , so where did they get -15.5 from ?? Cant say I agree that with a backup QB TCU would be -24 vs COL St when the Rams where just +28 @ Cal . At most that line should have been -10 and probably -8.5 or -9 . Problem was TCU just smoked SDST and ran its record as chalk to 4-0 on the year .

TCU schedule is crap but they won @ new Mexico by 23 while what seems like a bad ref call erased a 4 pt win for BYU at home . I know w/o doubt that SMU beats the crap out of Wyoming and Utah State home or away . TCU wont put up 40 points and abuse teams and look good they will just win ugly week after week with defense and ball control . Look at there MOV and see that there QBs have 1 passing TD in 2008 . How do you accomplish that ?

I also wonder why seems like everyone is betting and the line is moving opposite ? I know because its wrong ....

I am not saying this to be an sshole I am just confident that BYU is no better then TCU on a neutral field with Dalton. Somehow no one seems to acknowledge that these same teams played in 2007 @ BYU and it was 5 pt game . Whats the explanation for that or exuse for BYU that day ?

I really dont want to argue with anyone but the continued response I saw this and I saw that is useless . What you saw was representative of the situation not representation of talent . Ifcapping was talent evaluatuion then people would succeed by just playing the more talented team .

Thursday will be here soon enough and I am confident this line is wrong . Right or wrong I still love all you fuckheads (said with a smile and laugh ) who are givinhg me a headache :36_11_6:..:cheers:So yes I am having fun with this arguement .


 
Guys excellent discussion here.


What it all boils down to for me, is a home team on Thursday night...I'm done going against them
 
And to be an ass but come 40 on degrees for a Texas or Florida team is not something to dismiss . Its not cold to me either but I dont think its a stretch to believe that its common for people to feel different with huge swings in temps . Whens it 80 or 90 you take 5 minutes to break a sweat and get loose not that the same at 30-40-50 degrees. Which is gonna effect everything in a football game IMO....


Great stuff Jeff as always . Constructive arguing helps everyone either validate there opinion , change there mind or just stay totally off something .
 
horses said:
It was 39 degrees at kickoff and cold, wet fans streamed toward the exits by halftime.

That is part of the 'Recap' of the TCU/CSU game; anyone who knows what they're doing is aware that bad weather generally favors the team getting pts. esp when the favorite is on the road and not used to such conditions. How you can watch the entire game (as did I, tuning in and out) and not be aware that the weather was a factor is beyond me. Maybe take a Meteorology class...:shake:
Click to expand...

:36_11_6:
 
counselor - I understand that it wasn't a monsoon...but it was cold, and it was wet. It would be foolish to say that the weather wasn't a factor (especially in regards to the performance of the Horned Frogs). Also tough to disregard the possible 'Look Ahead' by TCU.
 
SportsNut said:
And to be an ass but come 40 on degrees for a Texas or Florida team is not something to dismiss . Its not cold to me either but I dont think its a stretch to believe that its common for people to feel different with huge swings in temps . Whens it 80 or 90 you take 5 minutes to break a sweat and get loose not that the same at 30-40-50 degrees. Which is gonna effect everything in a football game IMO....


Great stuff Jeff as always . Constructive arguing helps everyone either validate there opinion , change there mind or just stay totally off something .
Click to expand...


Which can be attributed to CSU's opening 78 yard drive. Only real drive of the game for the Rams. I do think you're high in the night if you think Houston can beat BYU. That CSU victory over Houston loses some credibility in my mind, I was on the CSU ML, as they were forced from their homes/university for two weeks with the hurricane. They turned it on strong in the 2nd half and picked the Rams apart at will. Out for the night. Great thread by all involved.
 
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