Browns fire Shurmur

[tipyerbartender1]

And another thing. Can I make the case for Lovie Smith in Cleveland?

Don't get me wrong, the guy is not a top tier coach, but hear me out.

Lovie's defenses have always been great. Our defense blows goats. Consistently.

Lovie also prioritizes special teams and Josh Cribbs still has a lot of life in him—not to mention he may still be the most popular player in Cleveland.

The problem with Lovie is that his offenses tend to be a bit of a shambles, but the one thing that you have to admit is that he's always willing to try to fix that. Mike Martz, Mike Tice (shudder), at least the guy realizes he doesn't know that side of the ball and needs to get a guy in there to run that show. Meanwhile the side of the ball he does get, he does a great job with.

The Browns haven't had a really good defense since, I don't know, 1992? How great would it be to see a strong defense in Cleveland and a team that will consistently threaten nine wins a season for the next few years.

We have talent on the offensive side of the ball. We just need an OC who can come in and get something from it. What we don't have is any sort of defensive philosophy or enough talent to stop anybody on the other side of the ball.

I'm not saying Lovie is 'the' answer, like I said he's not top tier, but the reality is, we could do a lot worse.

Lovie's going to get some interviews, and probably a quick job if he wants one. He's got the credentials you mentioned, and let's face it, teams with vacancies can check off the Rooney rule after his interview. Don't really want him here, I actually wouldn't mind the new coach retaining Jauron and the 4-3 (although Saban runs a 3-4). Jauron's defense had more to do with the team's whopping nine wins the last two seasons than Shurmur.

And JoeP, Josh Cribbs is no longer much of a fan favorite. Guy doesn't know when to shut up. He's gone anyway, makes way too much money for a league with no kickoff returns.

 

[Joe Public]

How quickly you've repressed the Mangini era, JP.

Fixed it for you.

I think the Cribbs thing with him running his mouth was overblown, but you're there and would know better than me on that. I still think he's got a lot to contribute, though. We'll see what they do with him.

Saban is actually last on my list, right behind bringing back Romeo. He was an awful NFL coach, just awful. He's a little dictator which works when you're buying 18 year olds off the street, but doesn't work so well with millionaires in the NFL who were the best players at their schools or in the country.

I want no part of Saban anywhere near the Browns (or the Birds). Actually, I don't even want him in the NFL unless it's at say Dallas where he could run that team even further into the ground.

As for the vacancies, there were seven coaching jobs open in each of the last two season, we may get to eight this year, but it's not too out of whack with how it's been. I think there's some good coaching potential out there this year and in some ways I'm kind of glad both the Browns and Birds are on the market for a new HC.

Of course, I say that now, call me in 10 months if either or both those teams fuck this up.

=|

 

[ClubDirt]

You're missing what an average-to-below-average coach he is. Best thing I can say about Shurmur is that it never seemed he lost the team. But the in-game situational coaching, the clock management, that ridiculous 30-year-old "west coast offense" with those short slants, the inability to adapt game plans to suit personnel ... there's a reason other teams turn it around in a year and his teams won 9 games in two years while rarely getting blown out.

like most people, i didn't watch many browns games. i judge most things by ats records and my projections for where a team will finish in their division given their age, talent and the other teams. by those benchmarks, cleveland had a fine season. but since i didn't really see them much in action, i can't really juidge how good of a coach he is.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

Cribbs is still pretty elite at covering kicks and throwing his body around with no fear, but I'm not even sure he's even the best returner on the team anymore. Tough S.O.B., and not to question his smarts ... oh what the hell, it's just a gambling message board ... I don't think he's the brightest guy in the world. Couple coaching staffs have now implied that he doesn't see the field much on offense because he doesn't run good routes and doesn't know the plays. How could he not crack LAST year's starting receiver corps, it was the worst in football history? He's lost a step and he's too expensive. Plus he whines. Whines about money, whines about playing time, whines about play calling, whines about everything, he's a twitter whore and sports talk show host's wet dream. If there are enough spots in the HOF for special teamers, he's in, but he's worn out his welcome and he makes too much money. Would take him back if he takes a massive pay cut and shuts his trap.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

like most people, i didn't watch many browns games. i judge most things by ats records and my projections for where a team will finish in their division given their age, talent and the other teams. by those benchmarks, cleveland had a fine season. but since i didn't really see them much in action, i can't really juidge how good of a coach he is.

Club, I got the impression from the Clubdirt weekly newsletter that you were breaking down the game tapes. Cancel my subscription.

 

[ClubDirt]

tip, i can't cancel your subscription since it expired yesterday pending renewal for the playoffs.

i love the touts who talk about how they are watching game film, like they are scouts. yeah, that's what they do.

not us, there are only so many hours in the day and cleveland browns football unfortunately has to be sacrificed most weeks.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

How quickly you've repressed the Mangini era, JP.

Fixed it for you.

I think the Cribbs thing with him running his mouth was overblown, but you're there and would know better than me on that. I still think he's got a lot to contribute, though. We'll see what they do with him.

Saban is actually last on my list, right behind bringing back Romeo. He was an awful NFL coach, just awful. He's a little dictator which works when you're buying 18 year olds off the street, but doesn't work so well with millionaires in the NFL who were the best players at their schools or in the country.

I want no part of Saban anywhere near the Browns (or the Birds). Actually, I don't even want him in the NFL unless it's at say Dallas where he could run that team even further into the ground.

As for the vacancies, there were seven coaching jobs open in each of the last two season, we may get to eight this year, but it's not too out of whack with how it's been. I think there's some good coaching potential out there this year and in some ways I'm kind of glad both the Browns and Birds are on the market for a new HC.

Of course, I say that now, call me in 10 months if either or both those teams fuck this up.

=|

Good points about Saban. I think you're selling him a bit short as a plain old football coach, but you're right, he's not selling five-star recruits on SEC football if he's in the NFL, two different jobs.

 

[Joe Public]

I like Tip's Cribbs rant. It's so wonderfully bitter. Ha.

Thing is you're right about most of it. But I still like him.

I don't really know how much I question his smarts, he was a D-1 QB, I think he gets the game. Is he as good a WR as Hester, no, but Hester's not that good either so I'm not really convinced on the transition being that simple. Also, I think the key to any NFL WR is being able to generate separation, and that's less about speed than it is a real understanding of and ability to play the position. Josh may just not have that.

Hell, Robiskie couldn't crack our starting lineup and he was born to be a Browns' WR. And Massaquoi has fallen off the face of the earth and we spent a big draft pick on him.

One thing I agree with Heckert on is that this team has a lot of young, raw talent. But it really, really needs some teachers in there to help that talent realize its potential.

It's great that Richardson basically came ready to play in the NFL straight out of the box, but Weeden, Gordon, Benjamin, even Little all need a lot of work. We also need a stud TE and, you know, the other half of a defense.

So not only a good staff, but a strong draft are essential to the future of this team.

In other words, no pressure or anything.

Eeeeep.

 

[ClubDirt]

here's my argument that cleveland had a good season and shouldn't fire their coach

one more win than last season, matched the vegas win total and had a winning record ats.

here's the context- youngest team in the league (i believe), only second year of a new coach and new system, played in a tough division with 3 good teams and no bad teams, also played nfc east with 3 teams on verge of playoffs in final week, also played two other playoff teams on the road. so their schedule included 7 games against playoff teams plus 2 against pitt, @NYG, and @ dallas.

how many wins were they supposed to get under those circumstances?

 

[Joe Public]

It's interesting, CD, as the later part of the season rolled along, I too got to the point where I would have been fine with Fritz, er, Pat, sticking around.

I get the argument that his style was basic. But the reality is he was working with a rookie QB, rookie and 2nd year WRs and a rookie RB—and even when the season was effectively over by like week six, he never lost the team.

That said, new ownership, new regime, it was sort of bound to happen.

 

[Joe Public]

Unrelated: Trent Richardson is the man. Broken ribs, no problem, I'll just play NINE games with them.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8...n-cleveland-browns-played-9-games-broken-ribs

 

[JumpOnBoard]

Lol

 

[ClubDirt]

joe, i know there is no substitute for watching the team and seeing how they gameplan, call plays and adjust. for instance, i watched miami a lot last season for various reasons and i felt sparano was possibly the worst coach in the league even though other teams had worse records and miami only had one more loss than the year before. i'm just looking at cleveland from a more general and simplistic perspective.

of course, the other side of the coin is who do they think they will hire to improve the team? i know, who in their right mind wouldn't want to live in cleveland, but there are a lot of vacancies and a lot of competition for what i suspect are not many quality candidates.