Bonds!!!! Record!!

[E.T.G.]

if roids dont make u hit homeruns then explain to me why hitters take em?

I have a lot of thoughts on this issue in general..

To hit a baseball it takes hand-eye coordination. As far as the medical community goes, researchers have found no link between steroids and increased hand-eye coordination, and they shouldn't and won't.

Why do hitters take them? It goes beyond the long ball. Of course there is the added benefit of strength increases and naturally the stronger you get, the quicker your bat speed will be but you still have to put the bat on the ball, not just swing as fast as you can. Baseball is a 162game season. Teams often play 5-6 games a week, often are on long road trips, etc. To go out and perform at 100% every game is just very hard and taxing on your body, especially without proper rest and nutrition. Enter steroids.. Recovery time is now decreased so for someone who is 35 taking steroids, they might feel like they are 30 all over again rather than 38. It allows the athlete to compete at a high intensity more often. Lets not forget about pitchers as well here..This is a two way street gentlemen. I know of someone that took juice and added 3-4mph on his fastball, that shit happens all the time on various levels, don't get it confused, and yes this is 100% accurate, I just refuse to say how/where I know them for certain reasons.

I am not a baseball purist and I don't think putting a little *** next to the record is necessary. Now I support a level playing field, don't get me wrong, I just wouldn't care if the whole league was on juice or the whole league was off juice, just make it consistent. However in the days we live in now, it is literally impossible to level the playing field. It is a fact that we just have to face from this baseball era on. A little search on the internet and you can pull up 6-7 different designer steroids that are available for sale right now over the counter. There will always be chemists ahead of the drug tests and as long as someone wants to cheat they can.

How about this scenario. As far as I know, baseball's off season steroid testing is non existent, and if it does than it is not even close to being a barrier for juice. There are a ton of different steroids that do a whole bunch of different shit. You don't just pop a needle in your ass and look like a pro bodybuilder. There are steroids just for strength gains, for endurance, and for pure size. But anyway, a steroid with a short half life will clear your system in 1-2 weeks so a player taking juice in the off season would have to stop about 3 weeks before Spring Training and he would be juiced to go for the start of the season. It kind of makes me confused why Giambi ever took Deca, a steroid with almost 18 month half life which really isn't that good of a steroid. Getting back to this, there is no test for HGH. The whole damn league could be on the fountain of youth right now and there is no way to test it or find out.

I do however have a problem with Bonds getting beat up by every one and their mother on this issue. I personally don't give a shit if he is the biggest cocksucker alive, his job is to swing the bat and catch the ball, not run for mayor or win a popularity contest. I think 90% of reporters are slime balls and I don't feel bad that for the last 20 years they have had to deal with a person of Bond's personality.

Finally, yes he just broke the most historic record in sports but don't think for a minute he is not a great baseball player. In my young life, I have had the joy of watching Bonds do some great things on the diamond in a game I love to watch, no one can say anything to change those memories, not even Bonds himself. No one will ever be able to refute the fact of how good of a baseball player he is. Has anyone just watched him swing, its a beauty. Also don't think for a second that he was/is the only player on this shit, he is just the best one to ever take them. There are thousands of baseball players all over the country taking steroids and performance enhancing drugs right now and they could not wear Bond's jock strap.

My point is that seriously, there will never be a clean game of baseball for the rest of our lives, get used to it.

 

[Satyr]

Another homer for Barry.

 

[Satyr]

Green, I do partially agree with you, mostly with the consistency issue. Just make it consistent is fine with me.

Btw, why do you Americans always make such a fuss about all sorts of doping controls?

Imagine a soccer player in Europe is caught doing ANY kind of enhancement product, he would be pinned on the wall in a second. Swimmers, all sorts of athletes...

why is baseball so special? Make them all piss in a can once in 10 days and have ZERO TOLERANCE towards it. End of story.


No steroid or any other illegal substance use if you want a sport people will idolize and respect. I'm not attacking Bonds in particular, there are MANY, MANY other rotten apples there, I've read a lot on the issue and I'm gutted that the MLB and state institutions haven't reacted promptly.

 

[JPicks]

Green, I do partially agree with you, mostly with the consistency issue. Just make it consistent is fine with me.

Btw, why do you Americans always make such a fuss about all sorts of doping controls?

Imagine a soccer player in Europe is caught doing ANY kind of enhancement product, he would be pinned on the wall in a second. Swimmers, all sorts of athletes...

why is baseball so special? Make them all piss in a can once in 10 days and have ZERO TOLERANCE towards it. End of story.


No steroid or any other illegal substance use if you want a sport people will idolize and respect. I'm not attacking Bonds in particular, there are MANY, MANY other rotten apples there, I've read a lot on the issue and I'm gutted that the MLB and state institutions haven't reacted promptly.

It's obviously not unique to america. See: Tour de Doping (France)

 

[Satyr]

I never meant to say that it's ONLY America, but come on, what about the Olympics, US sportsmen didn't get checked, what's the deal with that? (hint: Phelps). Again, I'm not implying Phelps had anything to do with it, he's a great sportsman and my guess is he's clean. But how about equal terms for everyone.

Obviously all sorts of enhancement pills (which are legal) play a large part in sports today, it needs to be stopped.

 

[Satyr]

And btw, the difference is, those cyclists were suspended, kicked out for good.


How about MLB players? When will Sosa or McGwire pay for it?

 

[BRARSTAR]

congrats to bonds on this huge achievement, but Alex Rodriguez will break it.

 

[JPicks]

I know what you're saying Satyr. The probelm is that the dopers will always be ahead of the law. I'm almost to the point where they just let it be a free for all and if the government busts you for doing something illegal then the athlete would pay the price down that avenue. I don't think there is a sport out there that people aren't cheating. If I was playing Arena League Football or basketball in Europe and trying to hit the NFL or NBA I'd certaily cheat to get there. People can bash me for that, but in all honesty if you asked me if I'd ruin my own body and health so that my great grandkids would have their college paid for I'd say yes in a heartbeat. I'm obviously getting away from the main players in the MLB steroid scandal as none of them needed to do anything more to insure financial well being (maybe Sosa). My point is the reasons to cheat far outweigh the reasons not to for a plethara of players among a wide range of sports.

I'm also not one who buys into the notion that if you professionals were doing it then kids would be doing it everywhere. I'll put that on the media for reporting it. Would high school kids really be thinking about Guerillo Mota being on roids if the media didn't paste it all over ever T.V.? I'd guess not. The more they talk about Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc. being on roids the more desirable it becomes to kids imo. I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about it, but they can't come back and say this is the reason we're worried about it. If they were so worried about it then it wouldn't be covered so much.

 

[BetCrimes1984]

SAN FRANCISCO – Once upon a time, a pitcher named Mike Bacsik faced a legendary slugger who had 755 home runs. The slugger, Hank Aaron, did not add to his total, and the confrontation became the stuff of Bacsik family lore.

Thirty-one years later, history did not repeat itself.

Bacsik's son and namesake, a round-faced left-hander with the Washington Nationals, faced another legendary slugger who had 755 home runs. And that slugger, Barry Bonds, blasted a full-count fastball 435 feet into the right-center field bleachers in the fifth inning Tuesday night, breaking Aaron's all-time record and thrusting the younger Bacsik into the limelight.

He grasped the moment. He didn't grope for words. It was almost as if he'd rehearsed a concession speech.

"If my dad would have been gracious enough to give up a home run, we'd both have given up a No. 756," he quipped.

 

[Santacapper]

Gaylord Perry didnt break the most respected record in baseball!

Maybe not, but he did break the longstanding record for Strikeouts at the same time Ryan did and was the first SP to win the Cy Young in both the AL and NL. PRetty impressive resume for a hall of famer too, who admitted to cheating throughout his career and everybody knew it. He broke a rule in baseball... Bonds didn't. Thats where I conclude cheating, if a rule is broken.

I am not denying the fact that whatever Bonds took during his career didnt help him hit homeruns, but what I am saying is that I do not think it was cheating the game of baseball or its fans as the head office and the MLB had no drug policies in effect until 2004 and completely knew the league had a steroid problem but didn't do anything.

If you can take something that is legal to help your career longevity, and status why wouldn't you? Side effects aside of course.... :cheers:

 

[G-Man]

You just simply cannot compare era's of baseball and any attempt to is an assumption on what it would be like, you just don't know and it gets you nowhere.

Fact is you just can't, its a completely different game. Pitchers were routinely going CG's and who's to say they werent gased in the 7th and 8th. Today is an era of specialty pitchers with RP who come in for one out and thats their day's work, then a guy comes in for the next batter.

Most parks have moved their fences back in the same time frame to adjust for the new era of baseball. Who's to say the guys in the 50's and 60's would be hitting the same HR's off the specialty pitchers who are fresh in larger parks? Again, you just can't speculate that.

On the other side, who's to say the guys in the past wouldnt destroy a watered down pitching league? Again, you just can't

Bonds took steroids, there isn't much denying that, except that he hasn't been proven guilty as of yet beyond herese. But the one fact that does remain is it was well within the rules layed out by MLB at the time he grew incrementally.

Steroids do not make your eyes see a curveball / fastball / sinker / slider in the .4 of a second you have to decide the pitch, the location and whether to swing or not. They make you stronger and recover faster.

If you think pitchers arent on the juice at the same times when there was not a drug program in place to catch them, pass what you're smoking please.

I just think there is taking nothing away from Barry on this event, he still had to go out and hit the ball daily, play the OF daily, and still did it in less AB's, less seasons, etc etc The two eras and game are different down the line to almost every aspect of the game.

Have to disagree again with this "rules" quote.(in Bold above)

Just because MLB was slow in recognizing a possible problem that steroids would screw up the "honesty" of the player - are they then guilty for not stopping it before it happened? Sorry but they didnt have rules specific to steriods because they didnt know it was going to be a problem. Being unaware of steroids by baseball still doesnt allow a player to sneak by.

Lets put cheating at the top of the rules list. If anyone invents another drug that is undetectable in the future, are we just going to allow it? If Joe Blow hits a hundred homers in a season are we going to say he must be a great player? What it seems that is missing here, is that the comment about the lack of rules against steroids or other enhancing drugs means its ok to cheat? Forget the "rules" being unclear in detail about a specific drug etc.

The real problem was if it was legal why didnt Bonds say to a reporter and all the other players in baseball, "hey - I take these pills and shots and now Im hitting homeruns out of my ass!" You should try some! He didnt because it was illegal to cheat period! Regardless of what the rules were or weren't about steriod knowledge at that time. These guys are all phonies.

As far as Mantle, DiMaggio and other greats like Ruth and Gerhig, Kaline, Killebrew and many others - Bonds couldn't carry their spikes. Like I said in my first post in this thread. Griffey Jr is the best of this era.

Bonds went from a skinny 20 HR a year player to a monster hitting 70 on drugs. Join the club Barry - with Sosa and McGuire! Lots of luck seeeing those guys in the hall of fame!

Just QUIT IT about any Bonds' records. The asterisk stands! Period! (*)

(*) means =CHEATED

 

[Santacapper]

Just because MLB was slow in recognizing a possible problem that steroids would screw up the "honesty" of the player - are they then guilty for not stopping it before it happened? Sorry but they didnt have rules specific to steriods because they didnt know it was going to be a problem. Being unaware of steroids by baseball still doesnt allow a player to sneak by.

I don't understand how you can dispute that steroid use was within the rules. The rules weren't unclear about a 'specific' drug... there was no drug testing...

You honestly think baseball didn't know there was a problem? You think the trainers didn't know exactly what was going on in the clubhouses and the players didnt see others inject themselves and notice the huge growth on steroids yet Bud Selig and MLB did nothing to institue a rule until 2004. Thats 15 years of steroids at the least with the Bash brother years before doing anything.

When the HRs were flying over the fence after the strike that MLB so desperately needed to recover from MLB did nothing, they were selling tickets again.

Now Im not saying MLB is to blame totally... the players union put a halt to many attempts after it became apparent through 2002 that something needed to be done.

Hell, MLB was the only league to not have a drug testing policy... they had it in the minor leagues though... interesting don't you think that their young guys need to be tested but the guys hitting HR's and saving 60 straight games aren;t subject to such testing during the period before 2004?

Bud Selig goes out and casts a shadow on key players through his era as commish in MLB making it seem only a few do it, while guys like Neifi Perez are getting caught for abuse even today. You would think he knew the problem was more than just a few through the years.

The real problem was if it was legal why didnt Bonds say to a reporter and all the other players in baseball, "hey - I take these pills and shots and now Im hitting homeruns out of my ass!" You should try some! He didnt because it was illegal to cheat period! Regardless of what the rules were or weren't about steriod knowledge at that time. These guys are all phonies.

Absolutely fair point, and I don't want to come across as condoning the use of steroids nor thinking it's fair to the clean players (totally agree with Griffey Jr comment). I just think that in a game where every little bit counts and any edge you can get in order to be at the top of your game 'within the rules' as shady or grey as they may be most players will jump at the opportunity.

 

[Santacapper]

(shrug) there's no 'right' side to the debate... but this is a great and fun thread to read though:tiphat:

 

[G-Man]

I don't understand how you can dispute that steroid use was within the rules. The rules weren't unclear about a 'specific' drug... there was no drug testing...

The rules were unclear? Just because they didnt single out steroids doesnt make it ok though. So Bonds and Sosa and McGuire are all phonies as I said. But with the statement you gave saying that there were no rules for drug testing back 15years ago is meaningless really, that there weren't any testings at that time. What about cocain and pot? They were illegal - and there was still no testing then for those?

It doesnt matter that Bonds and the Basher boys werent tested or caught then. It only matters that they are all guilty now - so the records are tarnished and fraudulent at the least.



Now Im not saying MLB is to blame totally... the players union put a halt to many attempts after it became apparent through 2002 that something needed to be done.

The players union was run by the users!

Hell, MLB was the only league to not have a drug testing policy... they had it in the minor leagues though... interesting don't you think that their young guys need to be tested but the guys hitting HR's and saving 60 straight games aren;t subject to such testing during the period before 2004?

Good Point. But that was to deter the attention on those HR hitters.

Bud Selig goes out and casts a shadow on key players through his era as commish in MLB making it seem only a few do it, while guys like Neifi Perez are getting caught for abuse even today. You would think he knew the problem was more than just a few through the years.

BUD is an ASSHOLE! Needs to be imprisioned himself. And he hates ROSE! That kept him looking "honest" by focusing on Rose as a diversion.



Absolutely fair point, and I don't want to come across as condoning the use of steroids nor thinking it's fair to the clean players (totally agree with Griffey Jr comment).

I just think that in a game where every little bit counts and any edge you can get in order to be at the top of your game 'within the rules' as shady or grey as they may be most players will jump at the opportunity.

The ONLY way to get to the top of your game is without getting ANY EDGE that ends up as cheating - even a hundred years later! First it was the Black SOX, Then ROSE, now Bonds and McGuire and Sosa and hundreds of others. Hell even Omar Vizquel was big and pumped-up in 2002 and blasted 14 homeruns that year. The guy could only hit a few each year before he was on the juice too. Go look it up. I saw the guy get beefed up. It was visible on the field.


BONDS (*) Forever!

:shake: