Bill Belichick

That's a good question. I think it has more to do with Tom. Jmo.

So if one of Bill’s disciples won a SB in NE after Bill left, he STILL wouldn’t get credit for the “coaching tree” Super Bowl…but he gets discredited because his “coaching tree” didn’t win one? That’s some hater shit right there. I’m not sure there’s another way to quantify it.
 
How about the fact that Bill propelled these coaches to get HC gigs in the NFL period? What those coaches did with that opportunity should be, and is, solely on them. The fact he got them to that point is a testament of him. He can’t possibly be responsible for their results as well. That’s insane.
 
If coaching took place in a vacuum, sure. Unfortunately it doesn’t, so the coaching tree nonsense is just that.

I'm looking at some of these teams recently...Matt Campbell is thriving. Patricia was terrible, granted every lion coach was terrible before Mcdc. Josh McDaniels has failed twice. Judge was awful and Daboll gets to playoffs. Just some examples.
 
Also why didn’t you answer the question. How many other coaches with a top 5 QB won 6 Super Bowls and had 13 seasons with 12 or more wins? Seems an easy question to answer.
I did

You responded to it

 
I did

You responded to it


So what was the answer?
 
Phil jackson is overrated I agree with that too

Now we’re at the ludicrous portion of the discussion.

If the two best coaches in the NFL and NBA in our lifetimes are overrated, I would love to see who was the gold standard during that time period.
 
Chuck mfn Daly

He had how many HOFers on those teams? And it’s odd they stopped winning when MJ became what he was. Why didn’t they keep winning with that amazing coach?

I love Chuck Daly by the way and loved the Bad Boys…but this entire argument is silly to me.
 
Now we’re at the ludicrous portion of the discussion.

If the two best coaches in the NFL and NBA in our lifetimes are overrated, I would love to see who was the gold standard during that time period.
He can still be one of the best and be overrated

Hes not far and away and hes treated like he is
 
He had how many HOFers on those teams? And it’s odd they stopped winning when MJ became what he was. Why didn’t they keep winning with that amazing coach?

I love Chuck Daly by the way and loved the Bad Boys…but this entire argument is silly to me.

1. Isaiah
 
I personally think Bill Parcells is the best to ever do it. He has a great coaching tree. He had some great players but nothing close to a Tom Brady.
 
Even with 4 titles and the rest of the resume it’s laughable to discredit him.
I havent, I said hes the best of my lifetime as head and best defensive ever

If he had a qb like say rivers, I'd put over under at 1.5

If he had the sheriff he may have 10

So it's all subjective, only people who know are ones in the room, hopefully the doc answers it
 
If we want to discredit Bill for being a horrible GM and putting a stain on his legacy, I’m here for it. But as far as a HC, it’s nothing be hating on the man if you’re trying to tear him down for what he accomplished.
 
I said Parcells

Makes sense. Parcells was unbelievable in his own right. Are we then allowed to go through the roster and pick out guys that made Parcells what he was? Because he’s not winning any titles without that defense, and specifically LT.

And he only won 2 Super Bowls. Seems a stretch that the best coach ever only won 2.
 
Makes sense. Parcells was unbelievable in his own right. Are we then allowed to go through the roster and pick out guys that made Parcells what he was? Because he’s not winning any titles without that defense, and specifically LT.

And he only won 2 Super Bowls. Seems a stretch that the best coach ever only won 2.

He went to multiple playoffs with multiple teams. He won everywhere he went. Maybe not Super Bowls but pretty damn close.
 
I think y’all are discrediting the coaching staff and organization. Sure the player plays and Brady is GOAT, but draft him in the 7th and stick him onnnnn…..the Cardinals. Think we get the same results?
 
I think he's been one of the best. If nothing else he WON big with Brady. Didn't F it up, like Chargers are doing with Herbert as an example. And McCarthy only winning 1 with Rodgers, Braves only winning 1 WS with that pitching, etc. All so called great coaches had great players. Lombardi Starr, Landry Staubach, Jackson Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, and so forth.
But his record without Brady is bad. So he certainly doesn't walk on water as a coach. As for coaching tree his does suck. As time goes by how we evaluate things like greatness changes, for better or worse.
Never really liked him but ill put him up there, with caveats like most of them.
 
Also, if we’re playing this game he easily could have had 8 Super Bowls as a HC if not for “the catch” and “the drop” in 2008 and 2012 respectively.
You‘re not playing Teed‘s “game.” He mentioned one instance of cheating and one instance of the refs making something up on the spot. That’s different from the sort of thing you mentioned.
 
Being a DC doesn't count. Romeo Crennel had a few purple Gatorade baths and was dog shit as a head coach. Buddy Ryan was carried off the field for the 85 bears defense and he was turrible we a head man.

I was just shocked by the coaching tree. I think that says a lot. Imo.
Hunt, you don’t really believe a guy with 6 Super Bowl rings is the Most Overrated coach in NFL history do you? You don’t believe that a coach with very few Hall of Famers during his tenure at New England is overrated do you? Name me all the current Hall of Famers who won a Super Bowl with Belichick and the Patriots? You can count them on 1 hand so it shouldn’t take long. Btw, being a DC vs Elway & Jim Kelly and beating them is very noteworthy. He devised the schemes to slow their offenses down. Parcells has admitted this in their documentary. Why all the hate for Belichick?
 
Hunt, you don’t really believe a guy with 6 Super Bowl rings is the Most Overrated coach in NFL history do you? You don’t believe that a coach with very few Hall of Famers during his tenure at New England is overrated do you? Name me all the current Hall of Famers who won a Super Bowl with Belichick and the Patriots? You can count them on 1 hand so it shouldn’t take long. Btw, being a DC vs Elway & Jim Kelly and beating them is very noteworthy. He devised the schemes to slow their offenses down. Parcells has admitted this in their documentary. Why all the hate for Belichick?

It's just my opinion. I'm no expert.

His coaching tree sucks, the facts support this, and he had the best QB of all time... Who won a Superbowl a freaking year later for another team.
 
It's just my opinion. I'm no expert.

His coaching tree sucks, the facts support this, and he had the best QB of all time... Who won a Superbowl a freaking year later for another team.
I think the coaching tree failure exudes even more how great Belichick was because his assistant coaches weren’t good. Personal speaking, I’ve had many assistant coaches who went on to be TERRIBLE coaches. It was their incompetence not mine that caused them to fail. Each coach is successful or not based on their intelligence.
 
I think the coaching tree failure exudes even more how great Belichick was because his assistant coaches weren’t good. Personal speaking, I’ve had many assistant coaches who went on to be TERRIBLE coaches. It was their incompetence not mine that caused them to fail. Each coach is successful or not based on their intelligence.

That's fair. I guess I was just shocked at how bad they were/are. Those records are abysmal.
 
Bill greatest coach in the last 20 years. Brady the best qb. Both can be true.

Plenty of elite qbs with bad coaches (rodgers, manning, etc) did not have the same level of success. If you put peyton with bill, the same amount if not more super bowls won
 
Having had to live in this area and dealing with Pats fans, I often thought it was Bill. And the last few years I was like wtf. And I still feel that while Brady had the most impressive resume ever by far, I never felt he was the “best” or “most talented” Quarterback ever.

I truly believe it was a perfect marriage of coach and player and scheme. No different than Mahomes/Reid, Montana/Young/Walsh, etc. Same reason we look at a guy clearly who has the tools like a Herbert but has played in chaos. Same reason a guy like Alex Smith could be a number 1 pick and then suck. Maybe it was the 5 coordinators in 5 years before Harbaugh and later Reid. (Using him as an example, not saying he’s an all time talent)

Some say it’s a lazy argument but if Butch Davis and the Browns draft Brady instead of Spergon Wynn, you can’t tell me he wins 7 Super Bowls.

I feel if you truly ask them, they would begrudgingly admit they could not have done it without the other. And when the system was in place, there was now a standard of excellence that everyone elevated themselves to in a Patriot uniform.

As Wes Mantooth once said, as Ron Burgundy hung about to be eaten by bears, “…. Deep down in my stomach, With every inch of me, i pure, straight hate you! But, God damn it, do I respect you”

That’s how I feel about BB and Brady.
 
That's fair. I guess I was just shocked at how bad they were/are. Those records are abysmal.
Fact. I'm a Pats fun through & through and it blows the mind how piss pore his staff does when they move on. Frankly I think that only further proves his greatness knowing he did this with a staff barely fit to be head coaches on Friday Night Lights.

People can bring up spy gate or other instances where he was "cheating" but it seems that as the years go on it becomes apparent that many teams/coaches do this same shit, hello Jim Harbaugh... But how many times when watching a Pats game (I've likely watched more than anyone here) have the commentators been in awe of something BB did that proved to be an advantage that the opposition and often times officials had no fucking clue of?

Call him a cheat, overrated, product of Brady, etc. The man knows more about the game than any coach in history.
 
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