Big East Conference Discussion

B.A.R.

B.A.R.

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Well, lets get this started.

The Big EAST was a fun conference last year. Great ballclubs and some great matchups. Its amazing how quickly this conference has rebounded since the defections. You have four potential Heisman candidates in the league in Rice, Bhrom, White and Slaton. Its gonna be a helluva conference season and theres a chance again that one of these teams could be in the MNC Game.
 
Lets start with WVU.

We all know about this team. Incredible offense and iffy defense last year. The first sign to me last year was the infamous Maryland game. Hollenbach methodically ate them alive in the second half. This proved true against UL and others down the line.

Nice addition of Ryan Mundy from UM to the secondary. He had 15-20 starts in Ace Duece and is a solid contributor. The secondary should be better this year which is huge. The front has some experience from what I have read but needs to improve as well.

The defense is the key to this team. The offense is there. Pat even showed some accuracy at times last year.

They get UL @ home but have to go to RU and USF.
 
Look at the games WVU struggled in last year...

ECU
USF
Rutgers


whats synonmous with these games...these numbers

153-132-195

Thats their rushing numbers. Those are horrid efforts and they lost one of those games and were extended in the other two
 
Lemme correct myself somewhat.

The WVU defense is great against the run. Its QB pressure which helps equate to poor pass defense last year that needs to be improved. Their last 6 games last year they gave up 278yards pasing or more in each game.
 
pat white cannot pass. so lets get that major weakness out of the way. Despite getting single coverage all over the field, the guy can't hit open receivers the way he should. with that said, he can run the ball. the defense was pathetic last year. What makes that defense appear to me to be even more pathetic is that wv controls the clock with their running attack , meaning that their defense gets a lot of rest. my concern with wv is that eventually teams adjust to newer "gimmick" style offense like the mountaneer spread-rush attack. this is especially true in conference. Still, the big east didnt show many signs of stopping the attack last year.
 
I diagree somewhat. Pat has steadily improved passing since the VT game when he got his first break in 2005. Everey game he gets a bit better. Is he a good passer? No. Will he be better? Yes.
 
yes he has improved but that may be more a result of the stacking of defenses against the run and getting one on one everywhere. how could this guy not improve ? just the same they scored at will last year and return enough, especially at the skill spots to do it again. another concern from a betting angle this year is that the conference is better than a year ago (except maybe rutgers). as you said before , the defense is the real concern ... but if i was a def coord. i would do my best to make pat white beat me with his arm. if nothing else, it would keep my D fresher if he connects on a lucky bomb play. it's much better than the slow methodical rush attack that they crushed foes with last year.
 
Something to look at

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Big East Conference -- July 18[/FONT]
1. West Virginia
2. Louisville
3. Rutgers
4. USF
5. Pittsburgh
6. Cincinnati
7. Connecticut
8. Syracuse


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]All-Big East Team[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Offense[/FONT]
WR: Harry Douglas, Louisville
WR: Darius Reynaud, West Virginia
OL: Jeremy Zuttach, Rutgers
OL: Trevor Canfield, Cincinnati
OL: Eric Wood, Louisville
OL: Mike Fladell, Rutgers
OL: Ryan Stanchek, West Virginia
QB: Brian Brohm, Louisville
RB: Ray Rice, Rutgers
RB: Steve Slaton, West Virginia
TE: Cedric Hill, South Florida

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Defense[/FONT]
DL: Jameel McClain, Syracuse
DL: Terrill Byrd, Cincinnati
DL: Eric Foster, Rutgers
DL: George Selvie, South Florida
LB: Malik Jackson, Louisville
LB: Ben Moffitt, South Florida
LB: Danny Lansanah, Connecticut
DB: Mike Mickens, Cincinnati
DB: Trae Williams, South Florida
DB: Courtney Greene, Rutgers
DB: Jonathan Russell, Louisville

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Specialists[/FONT]
K: Art Carmody, Louisville
KR: Lowell Robinson, Pittsburgh
P: Justin Teachey, South Florida
PR: Vaughn Rivers, West Virginia



[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Offensive Player of the Year[/FONT]
Steve Slaton, RB, West Virginia

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Defensive Player of the Year[/FONT]
Eric Foster, DL, Rutgers

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Newcomer of the Year[/FONT]
Noel Divine, RB, West Virginia
 
Good points bro.

I saw almost every game they played and feel he is getting better...inconsistent but better.

It may seem like a gimmick system but at the college ranks it works. Nebraska did it for years. Trust me when I would bet against them in 2005 I would pull hairs out at how they couldn't be stopped late in that season.
 
I strongly agree that Pat White is turning into an adequate passer. Not only has his skills improved but he is so dangerous on the ground that everyone has to cheat up a step. He does not have to be the best passer to be a huge threat throwing the ball IMO. With Slaton next to him he can be an average passer and look phenominal.

Also, you have to look at who they play....not many teams are going to have the abilitly to contain their running attack. Teams will throw a couple extra in the box and say, "Make them beat us threw the air". So now you have a couple of decent receivers getting 1 on 1 s against subpar defenses.... How many teams in the Big East have the coaching and athletes to stop this attack?
 
i am still stinging from the punt return for a td in the final minute to cover against me at miss st last year. bulldogs tackle him anywhere or if he calls for a fair catch , then wv takes the victory formation and i cash a ticket instead of stare at it in disbelief.

i like usf better than rutgers and i gave lousville a higher power rating than wv , though wv gets the cardinals at home and would be my favorite in that one. would not be suprised to see the league finish in your order there.

when is all the talent that pitt has been recruiting going to equate into big conf wins ?
 
agree with you mostly yessir,
my point is .. as a def coord ... i would rather see him beat me through the air. perhaps the talent to do it isnt there but as a def coord i would always rather give up a huge play through the air than the 9-12 play drive that takes a lot out of my team. and his pass stats wont look bad because of what you said, safeties cheat up , wr have single coverage and the wr aren't untalented (though its hard to figure why a wr would choose wv out of hs ).
 
Pitt was great to me last year early on. I palyed them a few times and then got of the train.

I haven't dived into them yet but I believe they will be strong in the trenches this season
 
Hold up on this discussion for a second. Am I the only one who thinks the Big East has become grossly overrated? I like the top half but what have these guys really proven? Look at last year's OOC. West Virginia beat a mediocre Maryland team at home and a shitty Mississippi State team on the road. In the bowl game they beat a decent but not great Georgia Tech team by 3 (as 10 point faves). Outside of conference they proved nothing. Louisville, the champ and best team crushed Kentucky and Miami at home and beat KSu soundly on the road. All mediocre .500 teams. They beat Wake 24-13 in the Orange Bowl , but lets face it, Wake might have been the weakest BCS bowl participant in history. Rutgers beat a shitty UNC team by 5 on the road, a shitty Illinoi team on the road by 33 and Navy when their QB went down early. They rolled Kansas State in the bowl game but that hardly qualifies as a big win. South Florida lost at Kansas and won at UNC. The rest of these 4's OOC were cupcakes. Pitt was mediocre, beating Virginia (when they were terrible) and losing big to Michigan State (before they were terrible). Cincinnati finished with 8 wins in this conference, think about that for a second. UCONN and Cuse are your typical bottom feeders.

That being said the top 5 victories for the Big East OOC in 2006 were Nuetral against Wake Forest, Neutral against Georgia Tech, Home Against Kentucky, @ Kansas State and Home against Maryland. hardly dominance.

This year WVu will travel to Maryland and host MSU, Louisville will go to Kentucky and NC State and host Utah, USF will travel to Auburn and host North Carolina. Rutgers will host Maryland and Navy. Pitt will go to Virginia and Michigan State. Pretty pathetic scheduling all around. The top 4 teams in this conference will once again have gaudy records. It looks like the Big Easts "elite" are content to load up on OOC and in conference cupcakes and hope to parlay a weak undefeated record into a NC game.

A lot of people seem to think that the Big East has gotten back to almost even status with the rest of the BCS schools. Until one of these teams notch some actual victories (or maybe even games played) against the elites of the other conferences, I still see them as a glorified mid major.

That being said, USF is a nice darkhorse champion pick
 
ugh have to bail. this discussion thing is a good idea. hope we keep it going. talk to ya later bar , yessir
 
I'll start with interesting schedule set-ups for each team:

Cincinnati: Cincinnati, in my opinion, has one of the under-the radar non-conf match-ups in week 2 when Oregon St. comes to town. It really is an interesting game that you don't see often and it is a Thursday game. This should tell us a lot about this team. If Cincinnati wins, they could conceivably be 5-0 (and a Top 25 team?) when they start their BE schedule with a trip to Rutgers. If Oregon St wins, they could easily be 3-0 when they visit Arizona St.

Connecticut: With @Duke, Maine, and Temple to start off, UConn should be 3-0 when they head to Pittsburgh. They are predicted by most to finish in the bottom of the conference, but I'll be interested to see how this easy early schedule assists them and new QB Tyler Lorenzen.

Louisville: The non-conference schedule includes trips to Kentucky and NC St. Kentucky could very well give them a battle here, and I'll be interested in seeing a line for that one. If they survive those road tests, they could be 6-0 when they start a stretch of four five on the road (including trips to Cincy, S. Fla, and WVU).

Pittsburgh: Pittsburgh has two cupcakes before going to Michigan St and an interesting battle of two teams that could be down this season. They also travel to Virginia and have an interesting home tilt with Navy. I think they could be anywhere between 3-3 and 5-1 before heading into the meat of the conf. sched (which includes trips to Rutgers, Louisville, and WVU).

Rutgers: Their schedule sets up quite favorably. They play their first five at home (Buffalo, Navy, Norfolk St., Maryland, Cincinnati). This could pit 4-0 Rutgers vs. 5-0 Cincinnati early in the conf. schedule if Cincy can somehow beat Oregon St. They also only play 4 away games all season, including only one two game road trip (@UConn, and @Army). They also get most of the conference's top teams (WVU, S. Fla, Cincy, and Pitt) at home whle only have having to play Louisville on the road. They also play Syracuse and UConn on the road.

South Florida: South Florida travels to Auburn in the non conference and gets a visit from North Carolina. They should take care of Elon, Fla Atlantic, and Central Florida. While they play 4 of their 7 conferences games at home, they do get Cincinnati, WVU, and Louisville at home.

Syracuse: They perhaps have the most interesting non-conference sched. They host Washingto, Illinois, and Buffalo. They travel to Miami OH and Iowa. I really think you will see where this team is at after their first three of Washington, @Iowa, and Illinois. They also get 4 of 7 conference games at home, but they have to go Louisville and Pitt.

West Virginia: They host WMU, ECU, and Miss St. in the non-conference while going to Maryland and Marshall. Some interesting names and match-ups there, but they should handle all five. They only get 3 of 7 conference games at home, and they have to travel to South Florida, Rutgers, and Cincinnati.

Just a quick look through of the team's schedules. I'll have more in-depth looks tomorrow most likely.
 
Last edited:
back after one more poker tourney...

but RSMS...good points..

the one I will dispute now is the GT-WVU bowl game...game opened 5.5..I hammered them..lol...then it rose...then Ball was out..so it goes to 10

WVU wins by 20 plus if Ball plays.
 
I like USF (as does everyone else) but look for Grothe to have something of a "sophomore slump" this year. That phrase exists because they really happen not just because its a catchy phrase. It happened to Pat White last year and they happen to lots of guys. Brutal schedule means no dream season, but they will still be towards the top of the standings.

The one team I am really curious about is Cincy. With Dantonio this year I would looked for them to possibly compete for the title, but Kelly runs a spread attack rather than the old school power ground game, and this offense didn't show me (last year) that they are prepared for that. If the offense goes weird, this team could have some problems. They are one of the most under-rated defenses around, and alarmingly fast.

I don't like Pitt, UConn, or Syracuse's programs right now. I am not impressed with the coaching, athletes, nor general direction of those teams.

I might come back later with some thoughts on the top three programs, if I can think of anything useful to say.
 
Gar, lindetrain has an excellent write-up on Cincy. I think they were Day 9 of his "one day at a time" series.
 
He does...Cincy with the new attack has little use for Grutza now and I believe Mauk is the favorite right now. Solid defense in Cincy. One of those teasms that will hit a few ML's this year.
 
re

anyone got some early projected lines (assuming previous gamesend predictably)

WVU @ Maryland (Wk3)
Louisville @ Kentucky (Wk3)
USF @ Auburn (Wk2)
Pitt @ Michigan State (Wk3)
Cincy vs. Oregon State (wk2)
UCONN @ Duke (Wk1)
Syracuse vs Washington (Wk1)

my rough guesses would be

West Virginia -7
@Maryland

Louisville -6.5
@Kentucky

South Florida +8.5
@Auburn

Pittsburgh +4
@Michigan State

Oregon State
@Cincinnati +6

UCONN -6
@ Duke

Washington
@Syracuse -2.5
 
RSMS9999 said:
Hold up on this discussion for a second. Am I the only one who thinks the Big East has become grossly overrated? I like the top half but what have these guys really proven? Look at last year's OOC. West Virginia beat a mediocre Maryland team at home and a shitty Mississippi State team on the road. In the bowl game they beat a decent but not great Georgia Tech team by 3 (as 10 point faves). Outside of conference they proved nothing. Louisville, the champ and best team crushed Kentucky and Miami at home and beat KSu soundly on the road. All mediocre .500 teams. They beat Wake 24-13 in the Orange Bowl , but lets face it, Wake might have been the weakest BCS bowl participant in history. Rutgers beat a shitty UNC team by 5 on the road, a shitty Illinoi team on the road by 33 and Navy when their QB went down early. They rolled Kansas State in the bowl game but that hardly qualifies as a big win. South Florida lost at Kansas and won at UNC. The rest of these 4's OOC were cupcakes. Pitt was mediocre, beating Virginia (when they were terrible) and losing big to Michigan State (before they were terrible). Cincinnati finished with 8 wins in this conference, think about that for a second. UCONN and Cuse are your typical bottom feeders.

That being said the top 5 victories for the Big East OOC in 2006 were Nuetral against Wake Forest, Neutral against Georgia Tech, Home Against Kentucky, @ Kansas State and Home against Maryland. hardly dominance.

This year WVu will travel to Maryland and host MSU, Louisville will go to Kentucky and NC State and host Utah, USF will travel to Auburn and host North Carolina. Rutgers will host Maryland and Navy. Pitt will go to Virginia and Michigan State. Pretty pathetic scheduling all around. The top 4 teams in this conference will once again have gaudy records. It looks like the Big Easts "elite" are content to load up on OOC and in conference cupcakes and hope to parlay a weak undefeated record into a NC game.

A lot of people seem to think that the Big East has gotten back to almost even status with the rest of the BCS schools. Until one of these teams notch some actual victories (or maybe even games played) against the elites of the other conferences, I still see them as a glorified mid major.

That being said, USF is a nice darkhorse champion pick
Click to expand...

This is an interesting take on the conference and one where I would have a tough time making a convincing argument either way.

The thing about this conference is that there is only eight teams, meaning five OOC games. Unfortunately, like you said, it is very tempting for the top teams (going for undefeated records and BCS games) to make a soft OOC schedule. In addition, middle and lower tier teams are looking to parlay an easy OOC schedule into a bowl game.

With that said, I think that UConn and Syracuse are the only teams in the conference that you can say are bottom feeders (and UConn still has Donald Brown and some other solid talent).

I think 1 through 6 in this division is pretty solid and is competitive enough that it won't offer many gimmes.

That said, I would like to see more interesting OOC match-ups as well.

As a Cincy fan, I can tell you that they have come to terms with a home and home with Air Force (though this is several years down the road), a home and home with Fresno St., and I believe a 2 for 1 with Georgia (Cincy plays at Georgia twice and they go to Cincy once).

There were also rumors of them negotiating with Notre Dame, though I am not sure how reliable that is.
 
Man, that Maryland WV game will be an interesting line....As of now, I like Maryland if it goes over a TD...

Also, I think that UCONN will be closer to 10-12 points...Duke just seems to get bumped every time...

I agree completely about this conferenece. There are some strong teams at the top BUT I think those teams are 2nd or 3rd at best in a different conference. With that being said, the top three teams are all unique teams.
 
i think wvu should be able to beat rutgurs this year even on the road, that will be there biggest test on oct 27th, another semi test will be USF on the road they will be solid this year, but ti think they win that one, the super bowl game for the big east will be louy vs wvu in morgan town this year on november 8th, if wvu can win that game they will be in the top 3 in the nation and get a bcs bid, if wvu runs the table slaton is ur heisman trophy winner, love the mountys this year:cheers:
 
Good shit, fellas. I have to get out of here but am up to speed with all comments and will chime in with preliminary thoughts either in a drunken mess in a few hours or tomorrow or Sunday sometime when I am able to see the keyboard, lol...
 
LOL Rex.

Yessir...Mike will make MSU respectable here in next few years...once we get to Big Ten I have some interesting thoughts on them
 
Just a reminder that Phil Steele is great as a place to start you handicapping, but you have to go and check each individual team site and dig around a little bit to really know what's going on. Some significant updates:

Trevor Anderson has decided to transfer, so there goes your best pass rusher. Derrick Stewart flunked out, there goes your deep threat. There is no longer a FB position so Doug Jones is now a TE as is Earnest Jackson strangely enough. His big body is more conducive to going over the middle and running inside routes. Grutza is still #1 for the moment.

This team suddenly looks much less appealing to me.
 
Let's go ahead and just drop the subject of whether or not Pat White is an adequate passer. We ALL know West Virginia is going to get their points regardless, so is it really a concern? This is a high-octance offense and I don't think any defense in the Big East can come even close to stopping it. Hell, GT had a great defense last year, and how many did WVU put up in the Gator Bowl? 41? They'll be great once again.

The defense may not be amazing in general, but I think the secondary will be much better after returning almost everyone. The ST unit is top-notch, and Rodriguez is great. I could actually see this team playing for a national title this year, assuming there aren't two other undefeated teams. I'm trying to figure out who will beat them.
 
Here are my power ratings for the Big East. I haven't adjusted Cincy yet according to what Garfather posted above, but I'm sure it won't be much of a difference:

West Virginia - 91.5
Louisville - 89
Rutgers - 84.5
South Florida - 83
Pittsburgh - 77.5
Cincinnati - 77
Connecticut - 72
Syracuse - 69.5
 
lindetrain said:
Let's go ahead and just drop the subject of whether or not Pat White is an adequate passer. We ALL know West Virginia is going to get their points regardless, so is it really a concern? This is a high-octance offense and I don't think any defense in the Big East can come even close to stopping it. Hell, GT had a great defense last year, and how many did WVU put up in the Gator Bowl? 41? They'll be great once again.

The defense may not be amazing in general, but I think the secondary will be much better after returning almost everyone. The ST unit is top-notch, and Rodriguez is great. I could actually see this team playing for a national title this year, assuming there aren't two other undefeated teams. I'm trying to figure out who will beat them.
Click to expand...

You pretty muched summed this team up this year.

If their secondary is better then they will have a great chance against UL at Morgantown.

The South Florida game is the scary one provided they live up to the hype many of us are giving them.
 
TheGarfather said:
Just a reminder that Phil Steele is great as a place to start you handicapping, but you have to go and check each individual team site and dig around a little bit to really know what's going on. Some significant updates:

Trevor Anderson has decided to transfer, so there goes your best pass rusher. Derrick Stewart flunked out, there goes your deep threat. There is no longer a FB position so Doug Jones is now a TE as is Earnest Jackson strangely enough. His big body is more conducive to going over the middle and running inside routes. Grutza is still #1 for the moment.

This team suddenly looks much less appealing to me.
Click to expand...

Cappers, remember that RJ has a great thread he did last year and has started this year...

http://www.cappingthegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29071

to keep on top of these situations
 
Uconn has had some off the field issues- one of their top WR's has been dismissed, and their top defensive prospect was deemed uneligible (he was a big time athlete from CT)


with that said, they have narrowed the QB race to Donny Brown and Juco All American Lorenzen.. Lorenzen was hurt during spring, so we didnt get to see him in action; but he'll be the starting qb this season- right now hes learning the system.

What Connecticut does return, is what is going to be one of the top rushing programs in the big east.. Donald Brown III is going to be a good pro-- for those who saw him tear apart the louisville Defense, you know what im talking about.


I think they will be a great team to bet on Non-Conference (week one line is -4 uconn @ Duke)...

and once we see the Pitt game, we'll know how legit they really are.. I was at the game last year when they beat Pitt in OT then went on to lose to Cuse the next week--- I don't think that major incosistency will be there this year; They will have a solid QB unlike the revovling door last year.
 
Pat White is a legimate College Quarterback, and a big time athlete-- depending where he goes in the NFL, will probably determine his position; but he has the capability to make the big throws, as he has proved it before; it's whether he can translate his game to the NFL is yet to be seen, but he has defenitely proved himself to be very dangerous in CFB
 
he can make big throws but doesn't usually have to. hes got and incredicble long ball which is why he was drafted to play cf in the MLB. is athleticism is second to none and so is his heart and leadership. remember you lead by example and his roomate isn't bad either(slaton)....maybe this will rub oiff on devine as he could be a great one as well. back to BE talk....


Are they getting overrated yes. usf is flaky as shit and rutgers pulle dout two games outta their asses last year but somehow lost to cinci i believe? lou and wvu are no doubt real teams that could compete in any league no doubt about it. the rest their are questions but they are getting better overall.
onto line projections:
West Virginia -7
@Maryland....maybe a little low this is a public fav

Louisville -6.5....same as above
@Kentucky

South Florida +8.5
@Auburn...quite possibly could be right on wouldn't be surprised to see 10

Pittsburgh +4
@Michigan State.....looks about right

Oregon State
@Cincinnati +6 ....gimme the beavers all day

UCONN -6....i hope your right
@ Duke

Washington
@Syracuse -2.5 rigth on bro


we can go on forever with future schedules but there is too much time left for that we'll leave that for sunday talk
 
Brandon Mcclean was the WR- and the defensive prospect is actually his half brother.. James Nixon
 
It should be noted that while Brandon McLean was suspended, worsening UConn's already pathetic WR corps, its not as if McLean was a difference maker. I don't think Phil Steele even mentioned him.

UConn's WR's will be bad, but McLean isn't the straw that broke the camels back...
 
Mcclean was sort of slipping through the depth charts-- Uconn could suprise and have a pretty decent WR corp.. I've heard some good things about two sophomores.. (terrence jeffers and brad kanuch) good fundamental players, with some burst.. there also a few other speedy guys like larry taylor, so we'll see, i think our WR's have been criticized strictly because we haven't had a QB since Danny O to get them the ball..


On defense, we'll be pretty solid. We lost a few key guys like Ray Blackman; but we sitll have Danny Lansanagh (sp) at LB whos a great talent.. our defensive back position will be our strongest position on the defensive side.. Darius Butler and Tyvon Branch are returning starters and are money-- they are looking to show some scouts they can translate their game to the next level.


i'll try to keep posted the more i hear
 
Once again, tremendous work... One game that stands out to me

I think that USF will be a very very tough game for Rutgers. They come off a real weak spot in their schedule (Cinci and Cuse back to back) and also play WVU the following week. THey will probably be undefeated going into that game (unless they lose to Maryland which is non-conference so it does not really matter). Like you said, it is a revenge game against WVU. It will be very hard to focus on USF when they have WVU at home the following week.

USF gets two soft teams(FAU and UCF) leading up to its date with with Rutgers. I think this is a great spot for USF to steal one. USF can be put on the map if they steal one here
 
YesSir said:
Once again, tremendous work... One game that stands out to me

I think that USF will be a very very tough game for Rutgers. They come off a real weak spot in their schedule (Cinci and Cuse back to back) and also play WVU the following week. THey will probably be undefeated going into that game (unless they lose to Maryland which is non-conference so it does not really matter). Like you said, it is a revenge game against WVU. It will be very hard to focus on USF when they have WVU at home the following week.

USF gets two soft teams(FAU and UCF) leading up to its date with with Rutgers. I think this is a great spot for USF to steal one. USF can be put on the map if they steal one here
Click to expand...


Good lookahead there.
 
Rutgers would be my pick for most overrated BE team if their schedule wasn't so simple. Four road games, three of them being Syracuse, UConn, and Army. Wow.
 
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