Baseball Hall of Fame 2014

hugh613

hugh613

Pretty much a regular
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH="colspan: 4"]2014 BBWAA Hall of Fame ballot results
[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Year on Ballot[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Votes[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Percent[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Greg Maddux
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]555[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]97.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tom Glavine[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]525[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]91.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Frank Thomas[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]478[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]83.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Craig Biggio[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]427[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]74.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Piazza[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]355[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]62.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jack Morris[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]351[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]61.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jeff Bagwell[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]310[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]54.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tim Raines[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]263[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]46.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Barry Bonds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]198[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]34.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roger Clemens[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]202[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Curt Schilling[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]167[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Mussina[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]116[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Edgar Martinez[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]144[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lee Smith[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]171[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Alan Trammell[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]119[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jeff Kent[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]87[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Fred McGriff[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]67[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mark McGwire[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]63[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Larry Walker[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]58[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sammy Sosa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rafael Palmeiro[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Don Mattingly[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14th[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Moises Alou[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Armando Benitez[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sean Casey[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ray Durham[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eric Gagne[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Luis Gonzalez[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jacque Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Todd Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Paul LoDuca[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hideo Nomo[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kenny Rogers[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Richie Sexson[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J.T. Snow[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Timlin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0%[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
Seriously, whoever voted for Jacque Jones (no doubt a Twins beat writer) needs to have their credentials taken away now...
 
Schill over Glavine should have been easy. Jack Morris should have been in a long time ago.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Schill over Glavine should have been easy. Jack Morris should have been in a long time ago.
Click to expand...
I'm actually REALLY surprised Frank Thomas made it in considering how little support Edgar Martinex has gotten. I guess this means David Ortiz should start getting his acceptance speech ready...
 
hugh613 said:
I'm actually REALLY surprised Frank Thomas made it in considering how little support Edgar Martinex has gotten. I guess this means David Ortiz should start getting his acceptance speech ready...
Click to expand...

Yeah, their transitions from crappy infielders to career DHs had similar arcs. Ortiz should have a friendly path, due to where he plays. Although he hasn't played much more, maybe less, defense than those two.

What does Glavine have over Schilling besides years (who cares), wins (kind of a team stat), and Cy Young awards (out of the player's control, Schilling finished 2nd 3X)? Playoff stats aren't even close. Winning % almost identical. Schilling's ERA & WHIP better despite Glavine's career vacation in the NL. Schill more Ks. 5X better K/BB (I know, I know, different styles). Schilling's closer in votes to Armando Benitez than Tom Glavine. I don't know what these guys are looking at. I finally got Blyleven in, I'm working on Morris, and I'm moving Schilling to my short list.
 
Schil is pretty outward and polarizing with his opinions, and while it may not matter to some, I'm sure it does matter to plenty as well.
 
I am seeing 305 wins for Glav and 216 for Bloody Sock

10 time All Star to Sock 6

2 Cy Youngs- Sock None

Glavs Silver Sluggers x4...could hit....even tho that isnt a huge deal

Roughly same ERA


Id expect more from you tip....even if you hate the Yankees this much
 
tip if you really think jack morris should be in then im disappointed in you. such a ridiculous argument there.

the whole system sucks. first off anyone who voted for jones or lo duca should be banned from voting again. second, anyone who left maddux off their ballot should be banned as well.

lots and lots of things need to change. among them:

1. ballots should have to be made public. if you are going to do a dickhole thing like vote for paul lo duca or leave off maddux, you should have to be held accountable for it

2. no 10 player minimum. that number is extremely subjective. some years there might be 15 guys eligible, some years there might be 4. Many writers have said theyd have voted for biggio if they didnt have a limit

3. voters who do obviously stupid things should be punished or lose their rights. the big story is that Babe Ruth didnt get 100% of the votes, so a lot of retarded old voters think that means that NOBODY should ever get 100%. So every year they purposely leave off the top guys becuase they think they are making a statement. all they are really saying is that they are morons
 
Biggio two votes short...brutal for him...

this deadspin/lebatard shit is such a non story it's a joke it's blown up
 
D-Woww said:
tip if you really think jack morris should be in then im disappointed in you. such a ridiculous argument there.

the whole system sucks. first off anyone who voted for jones or lo duca should be banned from voting again. second, anyone who left maddux off their ballot should be banned as well.

lots and lots of things need to change. among them:

1. ballots should have to be made public. if you are going to do a dickhole thing like vote for paul lo duca or leave off maddux, you should have to be held accountable for it

2. no 10 player minimum. that number is extremely subjective. some years there might be 15 guys eligible, some years there might be 4. Many writers have said theyd have voted for biggio if they didnt have a limit

3. voters who do obviously stupid things should be punished or lose their rights. the big story is that Babe Ruth didnt get 100% of the votes, so a lot of retarded old voters think that means that NOBODY should ever get 100%. So every year they purposely leave off the top guys becuase they think they are making a statement. all they are really saying is that they are morons
Click to expand...
Tip watched jack Morris pitch his whole career while you don't remember one fastball he threw and your calling him ridiculous?
 
so i cant do research?

thats actually my point. "because he looked like a hall of famer when i watched him" is not a valid criteria for being a HOF'er. Morris had a very short prime and for the most part of his career was a very average pitcher
 
it doesnt matter, he has as much of a chance of getting in now as you or I do, I just don't understand how people push for the guy.

one voter this year voted for Morris. And ONLY Morris. Its like some ridiculous agenda that old baseball heads decided to push, but there arent stats to back them up. There is no logical argument that he should be in the HOF...he was an accumulator. Work horse? Yes. Big game pitcher? sometimes, not always like some believe. Hall of Famer, Absolutely not
 
D-Woww said:
so i cant do research?

thats actually my point. "because he looked like a hall of famer when i watched him" is not a valid criteria for being a HOF'er. Morris had a very short prime and for the most part of his career was a very average pitcher
Click to expand...

who in the new era that has been elected to the HOF shouldn't be there but is?
 
that wasnt really waht i was saying, i was just saying that morris does not belong. but id say that jim rice and ron santo are reaches
 
your sentence suggests that you have a problem with the system, which would mean you would have problems with the selections as well?

Does Barry Larkin deserve to be there?
 
Player A:
9 Time All Star
1 World Series
Relief Man of the Year

Player B:
5 Time All Star
4 World Series
1 World Series MVP
2X Babe Ruth Award


Who makes it who doesn't?
 
I have a problem with the writers. The guys who think that they are something more important than they are. Larkin got in fair and square. He was borderline for me, but I have no issue with it.

my issues are that these guys are just completely power tripping. Bonds was a dick, but its not the Hall of Fame of nice people. Even with roids, he belongs in. So does McGwire and Clemens.

The 10 picks maximum rule is absurd bc it is going to make it highly dependent on who ELSE is eligible in a given year for whether or not somebody gets in
 
gsro said:
Player A:
9 Time All Star
1 World Series
Relief Man of the Year

Player B:
5 Time All Star
4 World Series
1 World Series MVP
2X Babe Ruth Award


Who makes it who doesn't?
Click to expand...

I dont do these. Stuff like All Star teams is dependent on who else is in the league. Stuff like World Series victories is team dependent, especially in baseball.

Show me their full career stats, and where they rank among the all timers at their position, and then ill give you an answer
 
D-Woww said:
I dont do these. Stuff like All Star teams is dependent on who else is in the league. Stuff like World Series victories is team dependent, especially in baseball.

Show me their full career stats, and where they rank among the all timers at their position, and then ill give you an answer
Click to expand...

fair enough you can pull up the stats i'll tell you the player:

Player A is Goose Gossage
Player B is Jack Morris..

Goose is in the hall.
 
i also put no merit into All star game appearances or gold gloves for that matter
 
agreed especially on gold gloves. morris is basically like if james shields pitched for 20 years...i dont think thats a hall of famer
 
I've always thought voters should be allowed two seconds per player to deliberate. A simple yes/no vote. No minimums, no maximums. If there's 60 guys on the list then you get 2 minutes to decide. If it takes longer than 2 seconds to decide if a player is a Hall-of-Famer then in your mind the answer should be NO.
 
It's the hall of fame, not the hall of stats. Players can be famous for various reasons that someone sees just enough to vote them in, and if 75% agree they are in. Maybe a guy is famous for being a great team player, and if enough voters agree that it's enough to warrant entrance to the Hall, so be it.

Fame is a pretty subjective subject, as should be the criteria for entrance. I firmly believe Jack Morris did more than his fair share to get in, even if it was by being a well-known "work horse" to use D-Woww's definition of his career.
 
kjohnson109 said:
It's the hall of fame, not the hall of stats. Players can be famous for various reasons that someone sees just enough to vote them in, and if 75% agree they are in. Maybe a guy is famous for being a great team player, and if enough voters agree that it's enough to warrant entrance to the Hall, so be it.

Fame is a pretty subjective subject, as should be the criteria for entrance. I firmly believe Jack Morris did more than his fair share to get in, even if it was by being a well-known "work horse" to use D-Woww's definition of his career.
Click to expand...

I agree that he should be in the HOF, dont' forget game 7 in Minny..
 
While both Morris and Schilling are statistically on the fringe of candidacy according to some traditional barometers, most notably wins, I think intangibles should count heavily when considering a starting pitcher. Not to mention the league and era in which he pitched. I don't necessarily think Glavine should be left out of the HOF, but since we're talking about these three guys, I think if you forget that 300 wins is supposed to punch an automatic ticket into the HOF, then I think we're splitting hairs on their merits. I would argue that Morris and Schilling were more dominant pitchers, and more important to their teams throughout their careers. (I believe their career WAR values are superior, but I didn't check.)

I also weigh career playoff performance more heavily for pitchers than I would for position players or hitters. It starts (and in Morris' case often ended) with the starting pitcher, playoff series almost always come down to dominant, heroic pitching performances. In this "intangible", Morris and Schilling were legendary, whereas Glavine was rather pedestrian. (Sure, he and Wohlers shut out the Indians in game 6 of the '95 WS, 1-0, to win Glavine's only WS championship. With Brinkman's strike zone that night, so could have anyone. Note our guys too gave up only one that night, a solo shot by Justice off of Jim Poole ... but enough whining.) Glavine was a big part of the Braves' dynasty, but as far as his stats go, also very fortunate to pitch his entire career in the NL, almost all of it for one of baseball's great teams.

Read the other day that Jack Morris is still the guy, 20 years after retiring, with the most American League starts of 8+ IP since the introduction of the DH. This should not be understated, because this is who the guy was. Fans in Detroit, Minny, and Toronto will tell you those were valuable innings. Anyway, there's room in the HOF for Morris and Schilling. Long shot now for Morris, which is a shame, but maybe the veterans committee will get right what the writers kept getting wrong.
 
kjohnson109 said:
Schil is pretty outward and polarizing with his opinions, and while it may not matter to some, I'm sure it does matter to plenty as well.
Click to expand...

Agree with this, but it shouldn't matter at all. They are getting into the HOF for what they did on a baseball field, not for their outlandish views or opinions. The fact that some voters take this into account is probably reason #68 why the process is broken and needs to be fixed.
 
D-Woww said:
There is no logical argument that he should be in the HOF...he was an accumulator. Work horse? Yes. Big game pitcher? sometimes, not always like some believe. Hall of Famer, Absolutely not
Click to expand...

This statement is simply not true.
 
D-Woww said:
my issues are that these guys are just completely power tripping. Bonds was a dick, but its not the Hall of Fame of nice people. Even with roids, he belongs in. So does McGwire and Clemens.
Click to expand...

Without the steroid issue, Bonds and Clemens 100% deserve to be in the HOF (meaning, before they started taking PEDs, they were both HOFers). McGwire, I think a good argument could be made, but he wasn't nearly the player that either Bonds or Clemens were (again, taking the steroids issue out of it). I wouldn't mind in McGwire was in, but I certainly don't think he deserves it nearly as much as the other 2, and wouldn't expect him to get in.
 
D-Woww, if you ask most people who watched Jack Morris and his entire career if he deserves to be in the HOF, most fans would say yes. Every older person I've talked to believes this. Why the writers disagree, not sure.
 
Problem with whole steroid thing is we are still suspecting people who might have taken steroids. Sosa never failed a test. Should that be the defining factor? Who knows. I say vote them all in.
 
kjohnson109 said:
It's the hall of fame, not the hall of stats. Players can be famous for various reasons that someone sees just enough to vote them in, and if 75% agree they are in. Maybe a guy is famous for being a great team player, and if enough voters agree that it's enough to warrant entrance to the Hall, so be it.

Fame is a pretty subjective subject, as should be the criteria for entrance. I firmly believe Jack Morris did more than his fair share to get in, even if it was by being a well-known "work horse" to use D-Woww's definition of his career.
Click to expand...

oooh, gotcha. cant wait for Tim Tebow to be in teh Pro Football Hall of Fame then
 
D-Woww said:
oooh, gotcha. cant wait for Tim Tebow to be in teh Pro Football Hall of Fame then
Click to expand...

That's a ridiculous argument and makes no sense. You aren't doing yourself, or your argument any favors here.
 
hare1994 said:
Problem with whole steroid thing is we are still suspecting people who might have taken steroids. Sosa never failed a test. Should that be the defining factor? Who knows. I say vote them all in.
Click to expand...

100% agree. Guys like Bagwell and Piazza are suffering bc nobody knows if he did or didnt, but because he may have hes losing votes.

gotta vote them all in. it was the steroid era, everyone was on them, and those guys dominated against other guys who were on roids too. im fine with an asterisk or something to point out that that "era" was marred by steroids, but they have to be in. Hell, McGwire and Sosa pretty much saved baseball
 
D-Woww said:
oooh, gotcha. cant wait for Tim Tebow to be in teh Pro Football Hall of Fame then
Click to expand...

you're becoming to sound so silly that you can't be taken serious with regard to this topic, 75% is a strong threshold
 
Lareux said:
That's a ridiculous argument and makes no sense. You aren't doing yourself, or your argument any favors here.
Click to expand...

the dude said its called the hall of fame so anybody who achieves fame should be in. i think that is the ridiculous argument, and pointed it out by saying that Tebow is about as famous as any NFL player.
 
hare1994 said:
Problem with whole steroid thing is we are still suspecting people who might have taken steroids. Sosa never failed a test. Should that be the defining factor? Who knows. I say vote them all in.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I say vote on them as if the steroids didn't exist, and then put some type of asterisk or something on their plaque. Sosa would never had made the HOF if he didn't use PEDs though, so for him I don't see him getting in. Bonds was literally the best player in baseball for many years, and this was well before steroids happened. Same thing with Clemens, he was the best pitcher in the game for years before he decided to prolong his career and turn to the needle.
 
D-Woww said:
i was just referring to your comment that its about Fame and not stats. To that I completely disagree.
Click to expand...

You made a comment that there is no logical argument for Jack Morris to be in the HOF. That comment was even more ridiculous, and there are many, many people who disagree with it. I'm not even sure guys that don't vote for him would agree there is no logical argument.
 
D-Woww said:
the dude said its called the hall of fame so anybody who achieves fame should be in. i think that is the ridiculous argument, and pointed it out by saying that Tebow is about as famous as any NFL player.
Click to expand...

That's not what he said. You're simplifying what he said. I don't even agree with his comment, but this isn't what he said.
 
hare1994 said:
D-Woww, if you ask most people who watched Jack Morris and his entire career if he deserves to be in the HOF, most fans would say yes. Every older person I've talked to believes this. Why the writers disagree, not sure.
Click to expand...

If Morris gets in then a ton of pitchers with similar resumes have a case to get in. Is Jamie Moyer a hall of famer? I get that fans liked Morris, but his numbers dont compare, and the ones that do are that way because of accumulation.

I do not think a work horse for a long time is a hall of famer. Writers seem to agree with me. 60 year old baseball fans who seemingly only remember his dominating days are more than welcome to disagree
 
D-Woww said:
If Morris gets in then a ton of pitchers with similar resumes have a case to get in. Is Jamie Moyer a hall of famer? I get that fans liked Morris, but his numbers dont compare, and the ones that do are that way because of accumulation.

I do not think a work horse for a long time is a hall of famer. Writers seem to agree with me. 60 year old baseball fans who seemingly only remember his dominating days are more than welcome to disagree
Click to expand...

The same writers you have called ridiculous? Most of these guys shouldn't even have a HOF vote. The system is broken, I think everyone can agree with that.

And yes, pitchers with similar resumes would have a case to get in. Problem is, there isn't "a ton" of them. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful.
 
you simply don't want a topic that is by nature subjective to be subjective
 
I think longevity is part of being a HOF'er, call me crazy. Not playing for a long time just to play. But playing a long time and doing something with it, especially being a key cog for a championship contender.
 
kjohnson109 said:
you simply don't want a topic that is by nature subjective to be subjective
Click to expand...

As long as the people being asked to be subjective are worthy of the vote. That's really my issue with it all. Vin Scully doesn't have a HOF vote, but some dude who hasn't written about baseball for more than a decade has one. That's f'd up and makes no sense.
 
Morris has gotten over 60% of the vote for several of the years. So actually, most writers do think he should be in the HOF. 75% is just a silly number.
 
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