Astros and Red Sox cheating thread...

B.A.R. said:
More and more MLB'ers coming out with statements...shiiiit....even LeBron cross sporting it and coming out with a statement. Spring training is pretty much here and this isn't going away. Great work MLB!
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Manfred has gone from a commish no one really thought about to Goodell levels of hatred

Altuve got mad yesterday someone asked him a question he got a few days earlier.... buddy I got some bad news for you there for when you get beat reporters from other cities ckming to you

They badly need games to start
 
Inspekdah said:
I don’t understand why nothing for the players? This would be put to bed if they got fined a 10th of their annual salary.
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The thought was the union would have lawyered them all up. To me, MLB should have let that happen and then publicly shamed them for having done so. Then go very hard after the front office and Hinch (non union) until somebody cracks.
 
I thought Manfred handled it correctly , by offering immunity

I don't think anyone thought there would be such a backlash with the players . Usually they stick together. Thats kinda of been the surprise in all of this ( at least for me ).

Also, a lot of this is being stoked by the media . The players are basically going get sick of answering questions about the Astros
 
braves said:
I thought Manfred handled it correctly , by offering immunity

I don't think anyone thought there would be such a backlash with the players . Usually they stick together. Thats kinda of been the surprise in all of this ( at least for me ).

Also, a lot of this is being stoked by the media . The players are basically going get sick of answering questions about the Astros
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Cmon
You didn’t think the players would be like this?
 
What I don’t get is they only talking bout the WS year. There no way in hell you can convince me they didn’t know exactly what glastnow was throwing in gm 5 vs Rays last year. Kid throwing 100 mph with a hammer curve and Stros just ripped every pitch that 1st inning like they knew exactly what was coming which of course they did! At the time of that game I said he had to have been tipping pitches, not exactly. Lol
 
braves said:
no, because I thought they were basically all stealing signs
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not to mention juicing,greenies, whatever other substances they supposedly not taking anymore. im pretty much skeptical of them all but doesn’t really bother me. Whatever it takes. Lol
 
jedi ninja said:
Lol, what? That was genius. They relayed info from back in the clubhouse to field level in a matter of seconds.

Not to mention, and this is more important, MLB’s investigation found that the sign stealing stopped during the 2018 season. We’re talking about the 2019 postseason. Why would MLB want to protect anyone at this point? They also found no evidence they were using electronic devices of any kind when they were cheating during 2017-18. MLB also had an individual IN the replay room during the 2019 season to ensure no violations occurred. Is the claim that somehow the MLB official was in on it? Because it makes no sense otherwise.
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I don’t buy for a second they didn’t know exactly what glastnow was throwing in gm 5 last year.
 
Last edited:
There is so much talk about what's right here (is revenge right? is hitting batters right if they cheat?) Should they be forgiven, should their titles be tainted, etc. So many of people's beliefs ... what they argue for... turn out to be encouraged or even generated by their personal biases, their emotional commitments.
 
VirginiaCavs said:
There is so much talk about what's right here (is revenge right? is hitting batters right if they cheat?) Should they be forgiven, should their titles be tainted, etc. So many of people's beliefs ... what they argue for... turn out to be encouraged or even generated by their personal biases, their emotional commitments.
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Hey... Bregman supports this ...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1232827112211591168
 
B.A.R. said:
Hey... Bregman supports this ...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1232827112211591168
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It’s only going to happen for so long, and the Astros should encourage it...it’s a free base and opportunity to score a run. It hurts for a few seconds, no biggie. It’s doubtful teams bean guys after the preseason and maybe first few weeks of the regular season.

Anyone else wonder if Bellinger and his tough talk had a “face to face” with Mookie when he showed up? I sure hope so the way he was talking.
 
jedi ninja said:
It’s only going to happen for so long, and the Astros should encourage it...it’s a free base and opportunity to score a run. It hurts for a few seconds, no biggie.

Anyone else wonder if Bellinger and his tough talk had a “face to face” with Mookie when he showed up? I sure hope so the way he was talking.
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I actually was thinking about that as far as capping game totals, team totals...etc with extra base runners.
 
B.A.R. said:
I actually was thinking about that as far as capping game totals, team totals...etc with extra base runners.
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I just edited my post, but get the getting while it’s good here as I wouldn’t expect it to last long into regular season as “a thing.”
 
havnt been here too much, but ..

I dont give a shit at all. All these fukn players crying, fukn cry cause you all know damn well this is not the only team that cheated. If you believe that then you are blind and dumb. If they really wanted, why didnt they beat the nationals in the WS? not even win a home game during the WS.
I'm not a huge astros fan but I do watch em and will root for them.
 
B.A.R. said:
I think it is showing how they are affected a bit by all of the commotion about this ... From a handicap perspective...this lasting into the regular season a bit is a factor to take in...
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If they aren’t compared to previous spring trainings it doesn’t show a damn thing.
 
jedi ninja said:
Well it can’t be that obvious if that ass hat tweeted those stats without any context.
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I’ve read many of your posts here. I’m definitely not saying you approve of the behavior but you definitely seem to be passionate about the topic and seem to take a different stance on this.

just trying to see where you are with this
 
twinkie13 said:
I’ve read many of your posts here. I’m definitely not saying you approve of the behavior but you definitely seem to be passionate about the topic and seem to take a different stance on this.

just trying to see where you are with this
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I couldn’t care less they were doing what they were doing. First, cheating and baseball go hand in hand, and I’m a ballplayer so “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” is a common refrain.

Second, sign stealing specifically has gone on forever, and still does and will. Yes, the technology usage changes it a bit and there should be limits. However, they most certainly weren’t the only team doing it...so why didn’t every other team doing it win? You still have to execute, not to mention lots of guys do NOT want to know what pitch may be coming anyway.

Third, if teams knew this was going on, why didn’t they take more action to prevent it? Why didn’t they change up the signs more often? Did anyone go with 2 for a fast ball, 4 for a curve, etc? Why not if the answer is no?

Fourth, according to MLB the Astros cheating was done in 2017. They even put an MLB official in the video room after that season to try and ensure it didn’t keep happening. So, why do we have to keep hearing people reference Aroldis Chapman last year, or countless other stuff from years other than 2017? It just makes those people look like fans of one team as opposed to being reasoned.

Finally, there are way too many people acting as if these guys are only good/great players because of some sign stealing in one season. That’s just insanity and again shows most of the backlash is from bitter fans because their team didn’t win. I’m a Yanks fan (as you know), who fucking cares? Move on and try and keep your players on the field for fuck’s sake as opposed to whining about something that didn’t cost you anything in 2019.
 
I have absolutely zero problems with sign stealing and I think any argument against it is pretty weak.
I do have a real problem with all this though.

baseball has pushed this purity, tradition and love for all this time and the MLB has been littered with sooooooo much shit over the years and MLB always seems to handle to situation as poorly as possible.

I’m all for moving forward too, but this has been an absolute fumblefuck and handled in the worst possible way.

As Bomber fans I’m not as concerned about the future or the past, as I’m sure you aren’t either. There will be other WS, and wins.
Let me also say the Astros in particular have rubbed this as raw as a 2 dollar fuck. In every way imaginable
 
jedi ninja said:
I couldn’t care less they were doing what they were doing. First, cheating and baseball go hand in hand, and I’m a ballplayer so “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” is a common refrain.

Second, sign stealing specifically has gone on forever, and still does and will. Yes, the technology usage changes it a bit and there should be limits. However, they most certainly weren’t the only team doing it...so why didn’t every other team doing it win? You still have to execute, not to mention lots of guys do NOT want to know what pitch may be coming anyway.

Third, if teams knew this was going on, why didn’t they take more action to prevent it? Why didn’t they change up the signs more often? Did anyone go with 2 for a fast ball, 4 for a curve, etc? Why not if the answer is no?

Fourth, according to MLB the Astros cheating was done in 2017. They even put an MLB official in the video room after that season to try and ensure it didn’t keep happening. So, why do we have to keep hearing people reference Aroldis Chapman last year, or countless other stuff from years other than 2017? It just makes those people look like fans of one team as opposed to being reasoned.

Finally, there are way too many people acting as if these guys are only good/great players because of some sign stealing in one season. That’s just insanity and again shows most of the backlash is from bitter fans because their team didn’t win. I’m a Yanks fan (as you know), who fucking cares? Move on and try and keep your players on the field for fuck’s sake as opposed to whining about something that didn’t cost you anything in 2019.
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I agree with a few the things you saying but couldnt disagree more with other points. Could actually be craziest post of all time far as how much I strongly agree with some things and so strongly disagree with others all in same few paragraphs!! Lol. Nice work!

certainly not saying I’m the authority and that my feelings on it are any more factually accurate than yours, just my opinions. Here where I’m at in order: (in case anyone cares! Lol).,

1) totally agree with the overall premise of “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying”, imo it would be hypocritical of me to act too outraged when often I’m a proponent of cheating when it came to other “scandals”.

2) absolutely think you correct in assuming plenty of others were doing some form or another of same thing with the technology and just didn’t get caught. I think using the technology is above and beyond the spirit of typical sign stealing and needs to be put to a stop. There no damn reason these guys need to be running back to dugout to get a look at a iPad to see the ab, that redic imo. Obviously these guys did in fact want to know what pitch was coming so dont think the fact some players say that is relevant and I think little disingenuous anyways. let’s be real, I don’t buy for a second a guy wouldn’t benefit immensely from knowing what pitch coming!! Part the art of hitting is pitch recognition!!

3) I don’t know anyone knew it was going on to that extent. If they did I then don’t know if they were attempting preventative measures or not? You certainly would think they would!

4) it didn’t effect my team but I absolutely believe it happened after ‘17. i recall a few specific games where at the time I even said “this pitcher has to be tipping his pitches”, not knowing at the time it coulda potentially been more than that.

finally) I agree the belly aching going on by teams they beat is a “bit” much if not utter nonsense. I agree Definitely comes off as sour grapes from a bunch of other ppl I suspect have cheated or bent plenty of rules at one time or another, some of which I think have prob used one ped or another or at least benefitted from someone’s play who has. Personally I think this worse than ped’s but that goes to what I said in #1 about it would be hypocritical for me to be too outraged! Lol. Far as their level of goodness/greatness, I tend to agree for most part. It could have very well enhanced their ability to perform in some key moments of games tho.
 
2daBank said:
I agree with a few the things you saying but couldnt disagree more with other points. Could actually be craziest post of all time far as how much I strongly agree with some things and so strongly disagree with others all in same few paragraphs!! Lol. Nice work!

certainly not saying I’m the authority and that my feelings on it are any more factually accurate than yours, just my opinions. Here where I’m at in order: (in case anyone cares! Lol).,

1) totally agree with the overall premise of “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying”, imo it would be hypocritical of me to act too outraged when often I’m a proponent of cheating when it came to other “scandals”.

2) absolutely think you correct in assuming plenty of others were doing some form or another of same thing with the technology and just didn’t get caught. I think using the technology is above and beyond the spirit of typical sign stealing and needs to be put to a stop. There no damn reason these guys need to be running back to dugout to get a look at a iPad to see the ab, that redic imo. Obviously these guys did in fact want to know what pitch was coming so dont think the fact some players say that is relevant and I think little disingenuous anyways. let’s be real, I don’t buy for a second a guy wouldn’t benefit immensely from knowing what pitch coming!! Part the art of hitting is pitch recognition!!

3) I don’t know anyone knew it was going on to that extent. If they did I then don’t know if they were attempting preventative measures or not? You certainly would think they would!

4) it didn’t effect my team but I absolutely believe it happened after ‘17. i recall a few specific games where at the time I even said “this pitcher has to be tipping his pitches”, not knowing at the time it coulda potentially been more than that.

finally) I agree the belly aching going on by teams they beat is a “bit” much if not utter nonsense. I agree Definitely comes off as sour grapes from a bunch of other ppl I suspect have cheated or bent plenty of rules at one time or another, some of which I think have prob used one ped or another or at least benefitted from someone’s play who has. Personally I think this worse than ped’s but that goes to what I said in #1 about it would be hypocritical for me to be too outraged! Lol. Far as their level of goodness/greatness, I tend to agree for most part. It could have very well enhanced their ability to perform in some key moments of games tho.
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Good thoughts.

As for #3. There have been many players who have come out after the fact and said they thought something was going on, and some even complained publicly or to the league. They didn't need to know it was this widespread thing to think about changing signs either more often, or more drastically. Going hand in hand with "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying" is the fact that everyone knows that and baseball teams/players are extremely suspicious and paranoid.

As for #4. If you absolutely believe it was still going on after 2017, do you think the league was complicit in the scheme? How would you imagine they still did it with a league official in the video room? That's the question that would need to be answered before anything else.

It's nowhere near worse than PEDs, which is exactly what Doug Glanville recently wrote in a great article about it. The PEDs affected everyone in the league fighting for a spot to continue their career, or just make it to the show due to the numbers being put up and new expectations for each position.
 
2daBank said:
I agree with a few the things you saying but couldnt disagree more with other points. Could actually be craziest post of all time far as how much I strongly agree with some things and so strongly disagree with others all in same few paragraphs!! Lol. Nice work!

certainly not saying I’m the authority and that my feelings on it are any more factually accurate than yours, just my opinions. Here where I’m at in order: (in case anyone cares! Lol).,

1) totally agree with the overall premise of “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying”, imo it would be hypocritical of me to act too outraged when often I’m a proponent of cheating when it came to other “scandals”.

2) absolutely think you correct in assuming plenty of others were doing some form or another of same thing with the technology and just didn’t get caught. I think using the technology is above and beyond the spirit of typical sign stealing and needs to be put to a stop. There no damn reason these guys need to be running back to dugout to get a look at a iPad to see the ab, that redic imo. Obviously these guys did in fact want to know what pitch was coming so dont think the fact some players say that is relevant and I think little disingenuous anyways. let’s be real, I don’t buy for a second a guy wouldn’t benefit immensely from knowing what pitch coming!! Part the art of hitting is pitch recognition!!

3) I don’t know anyone knew it was going on to that extent. If they did I then don’t know if they were attempting preventative measures or not? You certainly would think they would!

4) it didn’t effect my team but I absolutely believe it happened after ‘17. i recall a few specific games where at the time I even said “this pitcher has to be tipping his pitches”, not knowing at the time it coulda potentially been more than that.

finally) I agree the belly aching going on by teams they beat is a “bit” much if not utter nonsense. I agree Definitely comes off as sour grapes from a bunch of other ppl I suspect have cheated or bent plenty of rules at one time or another, some of which I think have prob used one ped or another or at least benefitted from someone’s play who has. Personally I think this worse than ped’s but that goes to what I said in #1 about it would be hypocritical for me to be too outraged! Lol. Far as their level of goodness/greatness, I tend to agree for most part. It could have very well enhanced their ability to perform in some key moments of games tho.
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As for #2, there have been many, many players who have discussed this in the past, and it's probably split on who wanted to know pitches coming and who didn't. Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken, Frank Thomas, Will Clark. Just a few of the HOF names that have discussed in the past not wanting to know what pitch was coming. I think Jeter and either A-Rod or Big Papi said the same. Just relying on my experience playing ball through college, there were a lot of guys who didn't want to know if a certain pitch was coming. Again, sign stealing is as old as the game itself, it's tried at all levels and isn't something that isn't discussed all the time.
 
I’ll never think peds worse; I think ped good for sports and still go on plenty despite what they wanna tell us. Nfl prob more than mlb but don’t buy for a second mlb anywhere close to “clean”. I don’t think taking something to help improve is close to being told what pitch is coming but just opinion. I’m sure others think the opposite.

Anyways good talk, just bored cause thought I was gonna be enjoying the ncaa conf tourneys. Now it starting to sound like we might not be enjoying opening day baseball either since these fear monger assholes and dr’s responsible for the opioid epidemic are now telling us we cant enjoy sports for 8 weeks or more cause the fucking flu!!!
 
2daBank said:
I’ll never think peds worse; I think ped good for sports and still go on plenty despite what they wanna tell us. Nfl prob more than mlb but don’t buy for a second mlb anywhere close to “clean”. I don’t think taking something to help improve is close to being told what pitch is coming but just opinion. I’m sure others think the opposite.

Anyways good talk, just bored cause thought I was gonna be enjoying the ncaa conf tourneys. Now it starting to sound like we might not be enjoying opening day baseball either since these fear monger assholes and dr’s responsible for the opioid epidemic are now telling us we cant enjoy sports for 8 weeks or more cause the fucking flu!!!
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Yeah, I agree that PEDs were good for the game as far as the fans go, wasn’t a better time I can think of to watch, and the league knew that. But for the players, it was much worse for anyone that wasn’t juicing. They could potentially lose a job, or get a much smaller contract because the numbers were so far out of whack at each position. The Astros sign stealing didn’t cost guys jobs, and again they were just using a much better sign stealing scheme than every other team was trying to employ.

Here’s the Granville’s article that put it into perspective from a clean player...
www.google.com

I played clean in the steroid era -- and PEDs hurt players more than sign stealing does

Sign stealing is a serious threat to the game's integrity. But PEDs, writes Doug Glanville, have the power to destroy innocent players' careers.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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