Any doubters left? LeBron makes history

Satyr

Satyr

Paster of Muppets
I'm glad I hit my Magic ML for tonight, but this is unreal. Again triple double? AGAIN!?

And not just ANY triple double either. Last time he had it after 3, and now this:

39 pts, 13 rebounds, 14 assists!

On Chamberlain's big night in 1968, he had 53 points, 32 rebounds and 14 assists. The 39-13-14 plateau has only been reached seven times, with Oscar Robertson doing it on five occasions. ...


This guy is incredible. And so clutch as well ;). Too bad he gets zero support from the team. Ok not zero but not enough.
 
yeahh... if I was on his place with that big pressure as he was yesterday, at the free throws line, I'd hit three airballs for sure.... he's the man.

... and agree, he's getting any help from the others in his team.
 
yeah it was a great night by him, but it's funny how nobody says anything about Jason Kidd's triple doubles because it's just so routine for him.
 
cogenman said:
yeah it was a great night by him, but it's funny how nobody says anything about Jason Kidd's triple doubles because it's just so routine for him.
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Kidd is a great player but I'm not talking about just any triple-double man. Look at these numbers. Seven times in NBA history.
 
The only reason they were close in the 4th or in OT at all was because of Lebron. ...Turkoglu's foul looked planned to me...up 3, they wanted to put him on the line in the penalty. Great athletic move by Lebron gets him to the line for 3....

ever notice that every time the Cavs have a great win, Lebron's numbers aren't that great?
 
How many guys have put up numbers like Dwight did last night at the age of 20? Dwight also won the game by the way.
 
abcs said:
How many guys have put up numbers like Dwight did last night at the age of 20? Dwight also won the game by the way.
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:shake:

Not going to get into the comparison stage here but...I think..and we haven't seen this even with Shaquille...that Dwight can have seasons with averages like that...35 and 15.
 
Thank you BAR hate to put a damper the Lebron love fest, but his team lost. Dwights team won and he also hit 2 clutch free throws to seal the deal in OT, while Lebron got stripped going for the final shot. I dont think people realize how young Dwight is. Like i said before it is much easier building a team around dwight than it is the king. I mean what position does the king play? Do you need a pg next to him? Just hard thats all. Give me a dominant center over a guy with a suspect jumper and poor defensive skills.
 
Since 1999, every championship team has revolved around a center that was a commanding presence.
 
Things were different back in the day when there were a handful of dominant big men. Now you have 2-3 so they can command the whole landscape.
 
OK one other thing, sure Lebron is good, but is he better than Kobe? No not really.. Is he that much better than Tmac or wade? Debatable.

How many big men are on Dwights level or even close? KG and Duncan on some nights.
The dude is leading the league in rebounding at 20 years old. RESPECT
 
abcs, you cannot compare LeBron to Kobe or T-Mac. LeBron is unlike any player in the history of the league. His combination of strength and speed will never be touched, not even close. He is stronger than most 4's and faster than most 1's. I watched that entire game last night. As crazy as the stats were, they don't even tell the story of what he brings to that team. They had no right even being in that game. That Cleveland team is a bunch of absolute fucking scrubs. Whenever there is a bit of pressure, they stand by and watch LeBron score. Make no mistake, if LeBron wanted to, he could average 35 for a season. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind. He defines the phrase "a man among boys." Dwight Howard is a monster, and watching him is like watching Shaq's career play out all over again. But you cannot compare what he does to what LeBron does. Dwight Howard cannot take a team of trash to the finals. LeBron is 22 years old, it feels like he's been in the league forever. To think that he can actually get better is downright scary.

Honestly, LeBron is actually underrated, as crazy as it seems, and here's why. There are so many games where he literally chills the whole night, gets his scrubs involved, and then with 3 minutes left, seemingly pushes a button and takes over the game. He did it at Sacramento last week. Games like that, sometimes, he'll end up with like 22 points or so. The casual fan looks at the box and goes, "Ehh, 22 points, whatever, Kobe dropped 35." Only true fans of the sport can understand what LeBron does. At 22 years old, he doesn't give a fuck about stats, only winning. That is remarkable for a kid his age. He is the ultimate "player's player."
 
So Gooden, Larry Hughes and big z were scrubs last year?


One thing I liked about last year, is when Lebron plays great and his team doesnt he carried them. But if a teammate has a huge game like Gibson did in the last game of the series.. Oh Lebron made them better. :down2:

Honestly go back and post lebrons shooting numbers for each game last year in the playoffs they were god awful. He was far from the sole reason that team went to the finals :smiley_acbe:
 
Dude listen to yourself. Drew fucking Gooden? Are you serious? Z? Z is a fucking laughing stock. He's the slowest and most awkward player in the league. LeBron took a team to the finals whose second best player was fucking Illgauskas. An NBA finals team whose second best player was Illgauskas. Or Gooden. Or Hughes, whoever you wanna call their second best player. I would like to go back in Finals history, starting with the year before last, and find a Finals team whose second best player was as bad as the second best player LeBron had.
 
Starting in the NJ Series..
8 for 21
12 for 24
5 for 16
9 for 16
5 for 14
8 for 20
5 for 15
7 for 19
12 for 21
8 for 19
18 for 33
3 for 11
4 for 16 (Sweep)
9 for 21 (Sweep)
9 for 23 (Sweep)
10 for 30 (Sweep)

That is awful!!
 
I'm trying to tell you that stats don't tell the story of his game. Any real fan knows that.
 
The pistons? The 76ers? I thought the Cavs would have been the 6th or 7th best team in the west. I wasn't impressed. They beat a wizards team missing their 2 all stars. Sorry man, what will you say if the Cavs miss the playoffs this year?
 
I should add that his stats have been better than any player in history at his age, LMAO.
 
what will you say if the Cavs miss the playoffs this year?

They won't.
 
I am shocked this thread started going this way.

I think LeBron backers think that abcs is bashing him as not being good. I don;t look at it that way. LeBron is an amazing basketball player. He finally learned a bit last year how to be clutch after being a choker much of his early career late in games. Its unreal some of the stuff he can do. That being said, he supposedly worked on that jumpshot all summer. I doubt it. He still is a bad shooter who needs to learn to square up and take a regular shot. MJ's fadeaways havemade these guys think its easy just to fall backwards and hoist one. He really needs to conctrate on that. Once he does that he will be impossible to stop. Game 5 here last year was a glimpse of that for one quarter when he hits jumpers on a regular occasion.

Now, back to what is the topic for the last few weeks. I would rather start a "team" with a Dwight Howard. Much easier to build around a dominant bigman than a dominat swingman.
 
Im not saying he isnt talented, or he wont be one of the best of all time. I also realize his talent isn't that great, but neither is any team in the east. Lebrons game has issues like Rick Barry said.
"First of all he has a major flaw in his shot that needs to be corrected," Rick Barry said, referring to James. "He has no idea how to use a screen effectively. The guy has been in the league four years. There's no way - I mean, what are they teaching him? How could you have a player of his stature have a major flaw in his shot without someone working on it? How can a player of his stature and his ability not understand how to set his man up and use and read a screen properly? These are basic fundamentals of the game."
What precisely is it about James' jumper that's flawed?
"He has bad form," Rick Barry said. "He had that (Game 5 against Detroit) because he happened to get hot. LeBron is a streak shooter. He can never be a great, consistent shooter because he has a major flaw in his shot that doesn't allow him to repeat the motion of shooting the basketball properly every time. It is so obvious. It is astonishing that someone hasn't corrected it."



Lebron is awful in a halfcourt set, his moves are awkward and he just sits there and pounds the ball in the ground. Cavs need to move to a more up paced style
 
Nice game... making a case to be a top 10 player in this league. As far as clutch... perhaps in the better half.
 
abcs said:
Im not saying he isnt talented, or he wont be one of the best of all time. I also realize his talent isn't that great, but neither is any team in the east. Lebrons game has issues like Rick Barry said.
"First of all he has a major flaw in his shot that needs to be corrected," Rick Barry said, referring to James. "He has no idea how to use a screen effectively. The guy has been in the league four years. There's no way - I mean, what are they teaching him? How could you have a player of his stature have a major flaw in his shot without someone working on it? How can a player of his stature and his ability not understand how to set his man up and use and read a screen properly? These are basic fundamentals of the game."
What precisely is it about James' jumper that's flawed?
"He has bad form," Rick Barry said. "He had that (Game 5 against Detroit) because he happened to get hot. LeBron is a streak shooter. He can never be a great, consistent shooter because he has a major flaw in his shot that doesn't allow him to repeat the motion of shooting the basketball properly every time. It is so obvious. It is astonishing that someone hasn't corrected it."



Lebron is awful in a halfcourt set, his moves are awkward and he just sits there and pounds the ball in the ground. Cavs need to move to a more up paced style
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Dayum. He basically said what I did.

Now, imagine Brons game if he ever got away from a Mike Brown offense. Now, that could be something.
 
Cavs need to move to a more up paced style

Full agreement there, LeBron is a freight train in the open court.

BAR, you have an argument for starting the team with Dwight. Like I said, watching him is literally like watching Shaq's career play out all over again. But as far as saving a team in the clutch, bringing some scrubs to the finals, etc- it's tough for a big man to do that. That's when you need someone like Jordan or LeBron or Kobe.
 
Killa said:
Cavs need to move to a more up paced style

Full agreement there, LeBron is a freight train in the open court.

BAR, you have an argument for starting the team with Dwight. Like I said, watching him is literally like watching Shaq's career play out all over again. But as far as saving a team in the clutch, bringing some scrubs to the finals, etc- it's tough for a big man to do that. That's when you need someone like Jordan or LeBron or Kobe.
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I won't disagree there. Lets see Bron do this a few times though in playoffs and even regular season. I think he will but he was so poor in clutch a few years ago and even a lot last year.

Shaq made the Lakers but at the end of games it was Kobe making the big plays no doubt. In this era it is very tough to match up two great forces like that.
 
Its pretty obvious if you watch the game. You dont want the ball in Brons hand with the game on the line. It was painful watching his awkward moves trying to get his shot off in the playoffs.
I would much rather have a kobe, wade,redd, ray allen shooting the ball. Lebrons jumper is whack and exactly like Rick said, he got hot ONCE, it was a fluke more than anything else. The pistons would have loved for lebron to think that he was a good shooter and continue to throw up those prayers that went in on game 6. They didnt in game 7 and thanks to Gibson ( Or a scrub like you call him) the Cavs made it to the finals.


One other thing that separates Lebron from the great ones. Kobe asks to guard wade and Lebron. Lebron will sit there and cover guys like Luke Walton. HUGE DIFFERENCE, one person accepts the challenge.
 
curtis granderson was the 3rd player to go 20-20-20-20 but im not putting him in as a top 5 great baseball player.
Bron-Bron is overrated... hes a great talent but still overrated.. and whenever he does do something special it seems like people forget about all the missed shots to tie/win games and fingernail biting and hail him as the greatest thing ever... i dont get it.

give me dwight howard anyday over lebron
 
abcs said:
Its pretty obvious if you watch the game. You dont want the ball in Brons hand with the game on the line. It was painful watching his awkward moves trying to get his shot off in the playoffs.
I would much rather have a kobe, wade,redd, ray allen shooting the ball. Lebrons jumper is whack and exactly like Rick said, he got hot ONCE, it was a fluke more than anything else. The pistons would have loved for lebron to think that he was a good shooter and continue to throw up those prayers that went in on game 6. They didnt in game 7 and thanks to Gibson ( Or a scrub like you call him) the Cavs made it to the finals.


One other thing that separates Lebron from the great ones. Kobe asks to guard wade and Lebron. Lebron will sit there and cover guys like Luke Walton. HUGE DIFFERENCE, one person accepts the challenge.
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Don't hate ;)
 
I just dont understand how anyone wouldnt want Howard over Lebron to build their team. Makes no sense to me. I love Kobe, but if both were rookies and I know what I know now, I would take Howard, because its easier to build from the 5 outward. I mean who do you pair with lebron to make him better? Magic came in and had Kareem there already.
 
Ok done debating this. By the way congrats on the tripple doubles. A meaningless stat in my opinion! Kind of like hitting for the cycle in baseball.. so what? Sure he does a lot on the floor, still doesnt mean when the game matters he can deliver.

Look at Howards numbers each year of his career.. notice the upward trend.. It is scary how high his potential is.. especially since the other young bigs in the league are guys like Spencer Hawes, Jokaim Noah and stiffs like that.
 
forget trying to figure out who to start a team with howard or lebron. u can start a good team with either guy. lebron is dope at defense this year. like wade & kobe, lebron gets fuckin monster blocks in key situations in the game. he has been guarding the best guys at the end as well. lebron is awkward with the ball in his hand?? WTF WTF WTF?? the guy has amazing coordination and can make an and 1 while getting fouled brutally hard.
 
But it's tough for a big man who shoots 60 or 65% from the line and scores all his points on dunks to take over at the end of playoff games. You need the 2 or the 3. The Jordan or the Kobe or the Wade. Sans Wade and Kobe, Shaq has no titles and he's the most dominant center of the era. LeBron can just do things Howard cannot do. Howard would not have taken Cleveland to the Finals last year, does anybody wanna dispute that with me?
 
Stats mean NOTHING when you lose...

Look at Vince Young's stats, how can he be a starter? There must be a reason that Titans are starting him, yea?

Look at the Spurs... you can't really say they put together good individual stats either.
 
Jimbo not that Lebron is awkward in the open floor. I am talking about in the half court set.. he doesn't have good footwork. Post up, turn arounds, up and unders etc. Watch guys like Pierce and Kobe, they just look smoother out there.
 
i fuckin hate cleveland alot becuz im a bulls fan but i know lebron is the fuckin man and in the top 3 players in the league/world right now.
 
abcs said:
I thought the rest of the guys played well last night
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are you implying that LeBron didn't? Btw I'm not some LeBron fan, I love my Spurs, don't care about others that much really. I think he's amazing though. Not the only one who fits that category, but one of the best.
 
abcs said:
How many guys have put up numbers like Dwight did last night at the age of 20? Dwight also won the game by the way.
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Sorry man but I don't see where you're coming from. I'm not denying that Dwight is not brilliant, I believe he's going to be (if not already now) the best center in the league.

But I wanted to put the emphasis on how hard is to have an all round effort of that kind. It doesn't matter that the Cavs lost the game, LeBron was still brilliant, and as Red said, he was the only reason they stayed in this one at one point.

The only thing that counts however are wins (after all I'm a team player, regardless if I'm playing some streetball against my boys or watching sports, it's always been team effort for me. Being a Spurs fan fits in that category I think.

But the fact they lost doesn't cast a shadow on LeBron's performance. If you disagree, that's fine, but out of 10s of thousands of games when you have someone accomplish something which has happened only SEVEN TIMES IN HISTORY, it means something in my book.

However, players are not just stats and numbers, LeBron's game was brilliant last night as well, the guy even won that tipoff in the end but couldn't hold it in. I don't see him as a typical whining bitch first me player really. In my opinion what he did last night is a huge thing.

abcs said:
Jimbo not that Lebron is awkward in the open floor. I am talking about in the half court set.. he doesn't have good footwork. Post up, turn arounds, up and unders etc. Watch guys like Pierce and Kobe, they just look smoother out there.
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I completely agree. His jumpshot is nowhere near what you would call a "classy one" either, but his determination and an all round aspect (a combination of strength and speed) makes him special.

Perhaps not as smooth as some others, but still great.
 
damn satyr, i couldn't say it better myself. you wrote exactly what ive been trying to say. that really was an amazing performance last night and he has had two ridiculous triple doubles already this year. he could have a career year even tho cleveland might be not great. u r totally right about he isn't the typical selfish superstar. i never thought about that but its totally true. im sure u know how much duncan fuckin whines. the spurs r an amazing dynasty but i can't stand looking at duncan. i would like to punch him in the face.
 
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