Anderson Out For The Year.
- Thread starter G-Man
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broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
Richard Bartel expected to come in from teh practice squad and serve as #2. this team is in shambles. can't believe romeo wasn't just fired today
deuce's wild
Pretty much a regular
More bad news for this years most overrated offseason team. How many days does Romeo have left on the sideline?
scraps@midnight
Pretty much a regular
really sad and becoming a serious issue. this is a very dangerous game and with the type of poor leadershhip the browns have men will keep getting hurt. it begins to impact players futures. as a browns fan, i am ashamed. no excuse and losing hope for the future. this goes way beyond romeo. hard to understand how they let it continue.
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
:shake:
scraps@midnight
Pretty much a regular
come on joe...you're up there, can't you fix this mess! not much i can do from cols...
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
You know, it's times like these when I regret giving up my career as a faith healer.
That said, there isn't a ton anybody can do with this team. They've been beat up by injuries, and their defense never really jelled. That said, their defense coming together this year was always a long shot, free agent signings or not.
The problem started, as a number of us said, when they didn't trade Derek Anderson when his value was at its peak. Even if he would have gone off and started and played well for someone else, it would have been OK if we would have picked up the draft picks. Because, say what you want about Savage, but that guy puts talent on the field. And there are still holes in this roster. Big ones.
Would we still have had a down year as Brady learned, yes. Would we still have needed a quality backup (i.e., not someone named Ken Dorsey), yes. But now we're f**ked. Because Anderson's value is so low, and other injuries have added up to a team that's just not very good.
I don't really even blame guys like Chud too much, even Romeo, though I do expect him to get fired. How can you blame the OC when your number one receiver leads the league in drops? When your hands guy, Joe J., hasn't been on the field all year? When Winslow is basically week to week?
At that point you need other guys to step up--and I don't think Jamal has had a particularly horrible year--and your defense to play big. But asking that defense, as currently constructed, to play big was asking for a ton, we all knew that going into the year.
The emphasis was going to be on the offense, which is now as hurt as there is in the league, and the confidence is pretty much shaken from the top on down.
It's a tough time to be a Browns fan--which, sadly, is something we've said for going on 20 years now.
That said, there isn't a ton anybody can do with this team. They've been beat up by injuries, and their defense never really jelled. That said, their defense coming together this year was always a long shot, free agent signings or not.
The problem started, as a number of us said, when they didn't trade Derek Anderson when his value was at its peak. Even if he would have gone off and started and played well for someone else, it would have been OK if we would have picked up the draft picks. Because, say what you want about Savage, but that guy puts talent on the field. And there are still holes in this roster. Big ones.
Would we still have had a down year as Brady learned, yes. Would we still have needed a quality backup (i.e., not someone named Ken Dorsey), yes. But now we're f**ked. Because Anderson's value is so low, and other injuries have added up to a team that's just not very good.
I don't really even blame guys like Chud too much, even Romeo, though I do expect him to get fired. How can you blame the OC when your number one receiver leads the league in drops? When your hands guy, Joe J., hasn't been on the field all year? When Winslow is basically week to week?
At that point you need other guys to step up--and I don't think Jamal has had a particularly horrible year--and your defense to play big. But asking that defense, as currently constructed, to play big was asking for a ton, we all knew that going into the year.
The emphasis was going to be on the offense, which is now as hurt as there is in the league, and the confidence is pretty much shaken from the top on down.
It's a tough time to be a Browns fan--which, sadly, is something we've said for going on 20 years now.
scraps@midnight
Pretty much a regular
all due respect jp, disagree with allot. i actually think the defense has performed very well considering the bad spots they are put in time and time again by our offense. and yes, savage has put some talent on the field however big mistakes at key positions. and mistakes in utilizing market value. the obvious da mistake is enough imo. but paying stallworth was moronic, winslow is a headcase, jamal is not a #1 back and no talent behind him is a huge mistake. the dropped balls and injuries are coaching...oc and hc. they are responsible for correcting and preparing the team to perform regardless. not sure how you can speak so highly of these guys who are really laughing stocks of the league and rightfully so.
i am with you though...our day will come sir...
i am with you though...our day will come sir...
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
i guess we see the coaching situation a little differently, joe. i know i see the DA/BQ situation much much differently from most people for some of the reasons you mentioned to not blame the coach, but that's a different issue.
imo, it was coaching that single-handedly cost us tough, close games vs pitt and @ wash, both of which that could have changed the whole season despite all of the mishaps and struggles. chud calls THE worst redzone plays in the league by far. we could dig into the stats and break this down to show how bad he really has been at calling certain plays in certain situations that not only make zero sense, but have become entirely too predictable. the cinci game last year isn't when defenses started to figure out DA imo...it's when they started to figure out chud. i still think there will be value out there for him, because he has huge potential that he's already shown flashes of. i saw a couple of teams on sunday night football that would love to have him. this feels like groundhog day when idiotic classless fans cheered couch when he was hurt and then we sucked for 5 more years and ripped apart the whole franchise and rebuilt again. richard bartel is going to be our second qb. we have a group of guys who have never won anything before with no leadership at any level. we are the biggest joke of a franchise in all of sports. and it makes me sick
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
I think the defense has played well--for what it is. I actually think there's a lot of upside, though had we been able to keep Brian Russell I think our secondary in particular would have been just that much better. But there are still holes there, ones I don't really bang my head against a wall about because that defense, when Romeo got there, was nothing. It was like tissue paper. So it's come a long way.
We do agree that DA was a mistake, we also agree on Stallworth. This was probably the worst acquisition Savage has made since he's been there. LeCharles you can't do anything about (though you should fix those staph infections, that's a league-wide joke about Cleveland). But Stallworth is not the guy. He's just not, and anybody who's paid attention to the league for the last two year could have told you that.
But again, his underperformance is enhanced by Joe J. not being there. Quite frankly, Braylon, Joe J., Stallworth, Cribbs, and Winslow is one hell of a receiving corps. But that's not what we have. Right now we have half of Braylon because of his hands, Steptoe instead of Joe J., Stallworth trying to play above his position, Winslow on the field only occasionally, and Cribbs trying to pick up the slack. It's a total mess.
As for the running game, I thought Lewis was a bad call, but he's been better than I expected--and I don't mind Harrison and Wright as change of pace backs. They're really not that bad.
The problem right now is two fold. First, at QB, obviously. That's due to both injury and lack of experience. Second, it's injury which is a depth problem--and then it's coaching. OK, so that's three things.
But I'm a firm believer that injury really tests a staff's ability to coach. And though we've had more injuries than many, I think this staff, as much talent as there is there--I think Romeo is talented defensively and I think you see that whenever this team gets down, the defense seems to rise up as they did last week; and I think Chud is talented as you saw last year with a no-name QB and a health offense putting up huge numbers, but--this staff is just not getting it done.
I don't envy the position ownership is in on this one. Because you're likely going to let a great deal of talent walk out that door just like the Browns did with Bellichick years ago. But it looks like that's what has to happen.
We do agree that DA was a mistake, we also agree on Stallworth. This was probably the worst acquisition Savage has made since he's been there. LeCharles you can't do anything about (though you should fix those staph infections, that's a league-wide joke about Cleveland). But Stallworth is not the guy. He's just not, and anybody who's paid attention to the league for the last two year could have told you that.
But again, his underperformance is enhanced by Joe J. not being there. Quite frankly, Braylon, Joe J., Stallworth, Cribbs, and Winslow is one hell of a receiving corps. But that's not what we have. Right now we have half of Braylon because of his hands, Steptoe instead of Joe J., Stallworth trying to play above his position, Winslow on the field only occasionally, and Cribbs trying to pick up the slack. It's a total mess.
As for the running game, I thought Lewis was a bad call, but he's been better than I expected--and I don't mind Harrison and Wright as change of pace backs. They're really not that bad.
The problem right now is two fold. First, at QB, obviously. That's due to both injury and lack of experience. Second, it's injury which is a depth problem--and then it's coaching. OK, so that's three things.
But I'm a firm believer that injury really tests a staff's ability to coach. And though we've had more injuries than many, I think this staff, as much talent as there is there--I think Romeo is talented defensively and I think you see that whenever this team gets down, the defense seems to rise up as they did last week; and I think Chud is talented as you saw last year with a no-name QB and a health offense putting up huge numbers, but--this staff is just not getting it done.
I don't envy the position ownership is in on this one. Because you're likely going to let a great deal of talent walk out that door just like the Browns did with Bellichick years ago. But it looks like that's what has to happen.
scraps@midnight
Pretty much a regular
agree so much joe...didn't even want to get into the retarded play calling and game management decisions...
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
i agree scraps...(except for the DA thing). the lack of discipline and leadership has been astounding and you can see it as plain as day. i actually do like savage, but even he has disappointed me in certain situations and has embarassed the franchise. i don't see it getting better anytime soon, and all this cowher talk is ridiculous. why in the hell would he want to come out of retirement for this mess???
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
chud calls THE worst redzone plays in the league by far.
Lest we forget Maurice Carthon so quickly.
Lest we forget Maurice Carthon so quickly.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
why in the hell would he want to come out of retirement for this mess
Because he's Cowher. And because it's Cleveland. He's extremely competitive, and he gets to come back to his old division. If he won with the Browns it would be legendary, almost Paul Brown-esque in the way he would stamp his name on that division forever.
And let's not pretend this team doesn't have an upside. The talent may be undisciplined, but it's young and still talented.
Look at those corners. They have the potential to be really good for quite some time. Braylon, if he can get his head out of his *ss and hold onto the football, could be a top five number one in the game. Winslow, if he can stay healthy, is one of the best TEs in the game. Joe Thomas?
It's all about maximizing potential and adding some discipline, and Cowher's good at both.
Because he's Cowher. And because it's Cleveland. He's extremely competitive, and he gets to come back to his old division. If he won with the Browns it would be legendary, almost Paul Brown-esque in the way he would stamp his name on that division forever.
And let's not pretend this team doesn't have an upside. The talent may be undisciplined, but it's young and still talented.
Look at those corners. They have the potential to be really good for quite some time. Braylon, if he can get his head out of his *ss and hold onto the football, could be a top five number one in the game. Winslow, if he can stay healthy, is one of the best TEs in the game. Joe Thomas?
It's all about maximizing potential and adding some discipline, and Cowher's good at both.
If he went to the city of Cleveland the city of Pittsburgh would hate him forever. He wont go there. Not because of that, but he just wont go there
scraps@midnight
Pretty much a regular
cowher won't come into this mess. if he did, braylon would sit and winslow would be gone. braylon may never be the same and we have tight ends a plenty that can play winning football, something winslow will never do. if he did come, it would clearly illustrate how bad this staff is, he would win.
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
oh i agree...he's be near perfect for what we need. i just don't think he'll want to do it because the risk is so high. he's everything romeo isn't and needs to be. i'd love to have him -- maybe he can persuade james farrior to come over hehe. i think there are a lot of holes to fill, and even where we have promising young talent, we need to backfill depth, which is our biggest problem, probably even moreso than coaching. completely agree with you guys on stallworth. what a stallworthless pussy. no idea how that guy looks his teammates in the face.
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
that's another good point alex, although most steelers fans i've met hated him his whole time there, and just seemed to forget how much they had hated him when he won the superbowl. couple of my good friends are steelers fans and even that didn't change their opinion of him...shocking in my view because i always thought he was a solid coach
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
yeah well it was a joke that he even held the position of OC and he doesn't now. as bad as he was i'd still take him over this year's chud calls and arians (who was way worse than chud imo--thank god he went to the dark side). we have the highest percentage of 3 consecutive passes starting on 1st down in the redzone by far. you have to be able to run the ball in the redzone to win in this league....to do so---you must ATTEMPT to run the ball in the redzone
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
I actually think there would be Steeler fans who'd respect Cowher coming to Cleveland.
I also think it would be great for the rivalry. Remember, Cower was a Brown before he was a Steeler.
Tough to really hate a guy who brought you your first Super Bowl win in a generation. He'll always have a place in Steeler lore.
I also think it would be great for the rivalry. Remember, Cower was a Brown before he was a Steeler.
Tough to really hate a guy who brought you your first Super Bowl win in a generation. He'll always have a place in Steeler lore.
People would hate him and no one will respect him. The radio shows have already started on what would happen and they laugh at you Clevelanders that think it will be happen. He would be hated, as much as we love Tomlin here, Cowher would still be better. He retired so he can take 2 years off and go to Cleveland?
Right, if you really wanna look at it, a lot of people wanted him gone before he won the Superbowl. He just didnt give a fuck his last season either. Then he said he thought the Steelers would go 6-10 or some shit Tomlin's first year. This would spark the fire like crazy if he went to Cleveland. I could already see the "Fuck you Cowher" sign. I could already see the interveiw with Hines Ward where he will say hes feels betrayed but its his life and he can do what he wants.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
They're doing that for ratings, and again, why not? It's great for the rivalry. Hell, it would be great for the league. It's like TO going from Philly to Dallas, you have a good two seasons where that's a game you almost have to watch--and it happens twice a year.
People love blood feuds. And, yes, 'Burghers would still respect Cowher. Some of them, the more reactionary ones, would throw him off the bridge, but the more sane ones would get it.
That all said, Cowher, I think, is holding out for power, and I think the team keeps Savage, so that may not be the offer he wants. Of course, he'd be smart--again, my opinion--to just take the coaching gig, but if he wants total control I think he's going to have to get it from another team.
Oh, and for the record, I think Tomlin's a stud and a great hire.
People love blood feuds. And, yes, 'Burghers would still respect Cowher. Some of them, the more reactionary ones, would throw him off the bridge, but the more sane ones would get it.
That all said, Cowher, I think, is holding out for power, and I think the team keeps Savage, so that may not be the offer he wants. Of course, he'd be smart--again, my opinion--to just take the coaching gig, but if he wants total control I think he's going to have to get it from another team.
Oh, and for the record, I think Tomlin's a stud and a great hire.
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
curious, have you always been a cowher fan alex?
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Oh, and also for the record, I've never thought Cowher is that great of a coach.
Great motivator, though, truly great.
Great motivator, though, truly great.
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
tomlin was an excellent hire...that's what you need...an up and comer to coach your team...not someone that's been in the league for 30 years and never landed the HC gig...that very rarely works out. tomlin is a guy that's tough for me to hate
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
exactly joe...he's a motivator and a disciplinarian. that's what we need. lord knows we're not giving up anythign from an x's and o's standpoint either though if he
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
The interesting thing with Cowher, wherever he goes will be who's his DC. Because LeBeau (sp?) carried a lot of water with those teams, he still is, so wherever Cowher ends up--and I do think he will coach again--it will be very interesting to watch who walks in the door with him.
Cant say I was ever a fan. But I never disliked him. One thing that sucked is the guy woudl refuse to make halftime adjustments. He was just not very good at all. He was our coach, and it was like that for most of my life, thats the way I thought of it.
I love Tomlin though, I think he is great, just oblivious sometimes.
About Cowher going to Cleveland, first of all, I dont think he could take any players from Pittsburgh because I know a lot of the players really felt betrayed when he said they weren't a good team last year. Second of all, without Dick LeBeau, I dont think he is gonna have a good defense unless he finds some diamond in the rough. Dick LeBeau does not get the credit he is due, he made that defense. Our linebackers are so good right now its unfair.
Then what about his style of offense, Jamal Lewis, is not Jerome Bettis. . I just dont think it will work. Other then the stuff I just said I just think it would be one large fail. If he want to Cleveland his press conference was something like "were gonna beat those Steelers"...just wow.
SteelBucsFan
Chicken Thief
If they let Cowher be coach and GM , i think that would seal the deal ..
At 1st I thought Tenny lay the wood but not anymore.
Defense has played solid a bunch of games and just did a fantastic job vs Indy . The Titans to me are like a superior version of the Redskins which the CLE team played well and so did the defense .
The players seem to endorse Romeo and will play their ass off to not make him look like an ass . Okay I do think some of his coaching helps him look like an ass but having your players stand up for you is better then the Rams situation with Linehan .
What's Tenny's motivation ? @ Houston , vs Pitt and @ Indy some quality games left . This one off DET game and like 10 days and seeing your facing teh 3rd string QB ? Just a game its easy to coast it .
I know I said I wouldnt take many bad offenses and QB vs superior defenses but Dorsey has to be an unknown of sorts . In that he is a wild card . His last start was @ Tenny in 2005 and he led at half on a terrible SF team that would get worse when it selected Alex Smith #1 overall the next season.
To me all about the CLE defense as it has allowed 17 or less points in 7 of 12 games . Then look at Tenny last 4 games and we see 19-24 points scored before Det game. Also teams after playing DET are 1-10 ATS !!!
Thinking UNDER and like 16-7 game.....DD dogs still 18-4 ATS.....:cheers:
Defense has played solid a bunch of games and just did a fantastic job vs Indy . The Titans to me are like a superior version of the Redskins which the CLE team played well and so did the defense .
The players seem to endorse Romeo and will play their ass off to not make him look like an ass . Okay I do think some of his coaching helps him look like an ass but having your players stand up for you is better then the Rams situation with Linehan .
What's Tenny's motivation ? @ Houston , vs Pitt and @ Indy some quality games left . This one off DET game and like 10 days and seeing your facing teh 3rd string QB ? Just a game its easy to coast it .
I know I said I wouldnt take many bad offenses and QB vs superior defenses but Dorsey has to be an unknown of sorts . In that he is a wild card . His last start was @ Tenny in 2005 and he led at half on a terrible SF team that would get worse when it selected Alex Smith #1 overall the next season.
To me all about the CLE defense as it has allowed 17 or less points in 7 of 12 games . Then look at Tenny last 4 games and we see 19-24 points scored before Det game. Also teams after playing DET are 1-10 ATS !!!
Thinking UNDER and like 16-7 game.....DD dogs still 18-4 ATS.....:cheers:
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
nut, please don't play the browns. i've seen dorsey quite a bit in practice and he is definitely inaccurate and will leave receivers out to dry. tenn should be able to stuff cribcat, which we are apparently going to be running a lot of (rightfully so). our defense has looked a lot better in terms of scores than it actually has performed. even the skins game, where the skins failed to score a whole lot, portis still had 185 on the ground. ridiculous. unless cribbs returns a kick for a td, which i don't see happening, or he THROWS a td, we will not get into the endzone yet again this week. there is no possible way in hell we hold this team to under 21 pts imo. there was 9 players who didn't participate fully in practice this week besides the confirmed out DA, quinn, winslow, etc. normally you would have about 6 or 7 of those players play, well this week with everything going on, i think a lot of those guys will just sit out. i don't think the team is behind the staff at all either. i know a couple of guys have come out in support of him, but that doesn't mean that it's the majority consensus in the lockerroom. i think a lot of guys on offense are against both chud and romeo
i usually do pretty well on browns games (8-4 ytd), and i will be playing tenn big and likely the under. bol
i usually do pretty well on browns games (8-4 ytd), and i will be playing tenn big and likely the under. bol
scraps@midnight
Pretty much a regular
agree with joe on all of the above with emphasis on how bad dorsey is. also will be on the titans.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
That's the thing, SN. The Titans may not have to try very hard to win 21-6 or 24-9.
They will be able to coast here, mostly thanks to their defense.
I love the Browns, and you're right, they will play hard for Romeo, but I don't see them doing a lot of scoring without a ton of help from Tennessee.
Look at last week, how many turnovers did they get and what did they do with them? Now imagine this, even if they do get just as many gifts, they have a worse QB at the helm to try to cash in on them. And they couldn't cash in last week, so how will they now?
They will be able to coast here, mostly thanks to their defense.
I love the Browns, and you're right, they will play hard for Romeo, but I don't see them doing a lot of scoring without a ton of help from Tennessee.
Look at last week, how many turnovers did they get and what did they do with them? Now imagine this, even if they do get just as many gifts, they have a worse QB at the helm to try to cash in on them. And they couldn't cash in last week, so how will they now?
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Perhaps the understatement of the Browns' season so far from the Walrus about Dorsey: "He probably doesn’t have some of the physical skills some other quarterbacks in the NFL have. I think that’s probably been the biggest drawback."
scraps@midnight
Pretty much a regular
:36_11_6:
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
what a great thing to say about your player hahahahahahahhahah. i found that absolutely hilarious. what's dorsey lack? well, i guess if i had to pinpoint it, i'd probably say OVERALL SKILLS. lmao
jimbof20
thunder thighs & hairy muffs specialist
didnt even wanna open this thread cause how disappointed I am this season..its not like ohio state to me where even after some bad losses all can be made up by beating michigan..this acts just keeps getting worst..im not talking about just this season but since they came back..i mean fuuccckkk...and to this season,im sure its been touched on(havent looked through thread entirely) but we start with 2 qbs and have none now..not only that all keeping them both did is lose their value as players(DA)...now im just waiting for dorsey to tear it up and we get to go through this again next season..lol..i know that far fetched even if he did tear it up but whether its couch or holcomb,or mcnown,or frye or anderson, or anderson or brady..no wonder we cant have successful year because 90% of the seasons we dont even know who are starting qb is going into the season...i know at the beginning of year this would be bad(not close to what i thought) but sure as hell didnt expect them to be the sexy team......just annoying more then anything..we are always a step behind..now what,basically starting over cause they didnt realize romeo sucked for 4 years(his success last year really doomed us this year)..so where are we now into next year??...no coach or coaching staff when romeo goes..hardly a QB...god knows whats going on with winslow or edwards for that matter...a rb who isnt gonna hold up too much longer and nothing i see thats great behind him..oh yea..no defense as well...so say all the marbles fell into place just perfectly (which havent for..well..never)..we are still a good 3-4 years away from competing...seen this thread going for a week or whatever and wanted to finally vent a bit
Funny thing is the 1st thing I thought when DA went down is Dorsey @ QB oh boy !!! It's going to get ugly .
Now I am looking at everything and why will it get ugly ?? Seriously .
Here's the thing that is sort of left out . The Browns did nothing but try to play ball control vs a very good offense . Does anyone else realize how good the CLE defense played on Sunday ?? Browns D now has 7 INTS L3 games . Peyton Manning had 125 passing yds on 15/21 passing only the 10th time in his 172 career starts he was under 150 yards . Then 26c92 yds on the ground and 50 plays for a net of 215 yds . As I said CLE defense has actually held 7 of 12 opponents to 17 or less pts and in 5 of those games its 14 or less. The potential is their for the defense to play well.
If McGinest is talking about playing their ass for RAC well then the effort on the field Sunday said alot IMO . A real alot . So if this is the effort and concentration level going forward that's pretty impressive ..
Well DA is OUT and that means 2 other RAC supporters and CLE team leaders Jamal Lewis and Joshua Cribbs will both have alot of opportunities to make plays the next few weeks.
Really IMO the CLE offense didnt much besides hold onto the ball , keep the chains moving and keep INDY's offense off the field . The good thing is that nothing points to CLE being better at home . Really their play on the road has outweighed the home games so playing away this week again could be a blessing in disguise.
Ken Dorsey ?? I look at the games he started for a terrible SF franchise and while the numbers are bad I came name a ton of guys who look alot worse . The next SF #1 draft pick ALex Smith was certianly one of them and so is JaMarcus Russell IMO who not for looking like a talented football player has stats one would expect froma 6th round QB starting in the NFL . Great thing IMO is the last start Dorsey had was @ Tenny 3 years ago and he only lost 33-22 and that was on a 2 win SF team . With even less talent then CLE has now on offense . He actually started a few of his games vs very tough defenses .
The Browns away ? How much different is playing @ Tenny then playing @ Balt or @ Washington ?? Not very IMO .
The only bad road loss was 28-10 @ Balt and that was all thanks to two INTS which gave Balt 14 pts . They lost by 3 pts @ Wash 14-11 missing a long FG at the end to tie . They won SU @ Cincy , @ Jax , @ Buffalo certainly not impressive but the point is they havent played a terrible road game yet . Maybe it is here but maybe the relief of being out of CLE helps them play better football not saddled with expectations.
What has DA or the CLE offense done lately ? DA had 110 yds at home vs Indy why cant Dorsey at least mirror that . He was throwing all short routes well completions .
On the Tenny side something has to be going on for teams to be 1-10 ATS the game after playing Det . Truth is Tennys 4 previous games were nothing to write about losing to NYJ at home , needing to come back from 14-3 @ Jax in the 2nd H , being tied with CHI 7-7 at half with Grossman at QB , winning 19-16 in OT vs GB . Hasnt the GB defense lost alot of luster ? Wasnt the GB defense incredibly weak vs the run as well ? So why think Tenny's offense is going to play any better then those previous 4 games before the clueless Lions ??
Also rememberTenny essentially kept CLE out of the playoffs. Well not essentially they won the last game of the season vs Indy and knocked CLE out . So even though Tenny clinches here this game has alot of meaning IMO for CLE for the payback factor BUT also in the save RAC department because what better win can you have then @ Tenny at the moment especially following the Indy effort ?? Only @ NYG so this is a great opp for CLE IMO ....
I dont expect the CLE offense to score much at all but based on the fact CLE has done well in keeping teams at 17 or less why not Tenny ?? Dorsey faced a very similiar defense from Tenny when he played them 3 years ago and naturally some of the younger guys real progressed and matured .
CLE has been in every game really since the opener. Two worst losses 18 pts vs Dallas and @ Baltimore. 4 , 3 ,4 , 10, 4 ,10 , 4 pts were the other margins ..
They claim Dorsey is worth 3 points in the spread okay I wont argue . Would you take CLE +11 here with the other CLE QB's??? I would definetly do it .
Look at Tenny and forgot the DET game that was about DET not about Tenny . The next worse team they played was @ KC and thanks to some real big 4th Q runs they won 34-10 but that KC team was not even as good as a CLE led Dorsey squad.
Only 1 time has Tenny allowed less then 10 pts this year and that was 7 @ Cincy . So why cant CLe get 7 pts and why cant they even get 10 points ? Remember Dawson missed a big FG and just read his comments about kicking in the wind at CLE and how near impossible Fgs can be to make . Funny thing is he said it before the Indy game not after .....
CLE is not the Rams , not the curent Bengals and not the LIONS . That is what makes this line to high . They may be bad but pathetic they are not .
I think Dorsey will do okay protecting the ball and expect Harrison to get some carries this week which to me is big . Most importantly Dawson has struggled the past 2 games and I think getting out of CLE will be extremely helpful to him.
I am actually growing very confident in CLE this week especially at +14 ......:shake:
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Well, no one can accuse you of not really looking at it, that's for sure.
I just think you might be overthinking it. I hope you're right, I hope Cleveland doesn't look completely outclassed. But I look at this game and wonder how they score 10 points. I don't see it without turnovers.
Meanwhile, I don't think it's hard to see Tenny get to 21. 21-6 feels about right to me here. Maybe 24-9, 20-6, something like that.
But that feels like best case scenario to me.
If it helps though, a lot of times teams that have 10 days to prepare screw it up in one way or another and don't look good.
I just think you might be overthinking it. I hope you're right, I hope Cleveland doesn't look completely outclassed. But I look at this game and wonder how they score 10 points. I don't see it without turnovers.
Meanwhile, I don't think it's hard to see Tenny get to 21. 21-6 feels about right to me here. Maybe 24-9, 20-6, something like that.
But that feels like best case scenario to me.
If it helps though, a lot of times teams that have 10 days to prepare screw it up in one way or another and don't look good.
Going to back the CLE defense its a clear trend to date in 12 games . They have 7 games where they allowed 17 pts or less and the other 5 they allowed 27 or more . So there is no inbewteen margins. There is no 20,21,23,24 pts here for Tenny of that trend continues . Its either low or high no middle ground .
The belief Tenny does not need to try much or very hard is laughable IMO. This team lost 34-13 at home to NYJ , it trailed 14-3 @ Jax (where CLE won SU ) , it was tied 7-7 @ Chicago at half with Grossman , it beat GB 19-16 in OT , it trailed at half vs Indy , it had the BS win @ Baltimore . Thats 6 of teh 8 games where they needed to play 4 quarters to win vs some good teams and somemedicore ones but really no one great . They beat up KC and Det again dont see CLE as that type team .
:shake:Just one MAN's opinion !
The belief Tenny does not need to try much or very hard is laughable IMO. This team lost 34-13 at home to NYJ , it trailed 14-3 @ Jax (where CLE won SU ) , it was tied 7-7 @ Chicago at half with Grossman , it beat GB 19-16 in OT , it trailed at half vs Indy , it had the BS win @ Baltimore . Thats 6 of teh 8 games where they needed to play 4 quarters to win vs some good teams and somemedicore ones but really no one great . They beat up KC and Det again dont see CLE as that type team .
:shake:Just one MAN's opinion !
Tenny is solid but they were surviving vs medicore teams before the DET game. Wasnt it you who just said how bad the NFC Central was ? Two of Tennys struggles were Chicago and GB . The Bears are really a bad team they arent even medicore if we look at the last month IMO or longer . GB is also medicore . Jags arent they a bad team? Jets are a decent team who stompd them. The win vs Indy was good but the Colts were not at full strength .
2 TDS is a hell of alot of points .
Maybe Dorsey does just look like a dumbass out there throwing to the other team rather then his own. Naturally CLE will get steamrolled if that happens . I just think looking at the games he started back in SF he wasnt as bad as his rep.
Again if the CLE pts allow trends hold up bewteen 17-27 points does not occur . Naturally it could occur but for something to last this long chances are it wont IMO.
I may very well be overthinking it that has happened alot . However if the only reason CLE is getting smoked here is Ken Dorsey then I disagree. :shake:
1-10 ATS after playing DET are what teams are . That tells us clearly the books inflate the spread and IMO clearly they have IMO . Also the perception of teams facing DET rises after the beatdown laid upon them . Alot of DET money on Turkey Day vs Tenny considering how bad DET is . Have to think everyone who lostwith DET that game feels like they wont make that mistake twice and fade Tenny again vs a bad team .:shake:
broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
nut, i think you're overrating this browns defense bigtime, especially now that they have nothing to play for (except jobs i guess because a lot of these guys are sacks of shit)
they can't stop the run for anything. they don't do well against big receivers and can't cover tight ends for shit. sean jones is the most overrated player i've ever seen, mcdonald just can't cover anyone of any size, and we have no depth at corner for nickel and dime packages.
the colts performance is easily explainable, as i was on the browns in that one. 1. romeo knows the colts well and has had success against them even when our defense was the worst in the league and held them to 10 pts (i believe) years ago. back in his pats days and carried over to the browns, he does a good job of containing the colts 2. like you said throughout your post, we played ball control. indy had very few possessions in that game, which skewed the stats greatly. our offense matched up against their small defense and we were able to run the ball. this was the gameplan going in and it was a good one. keep a high powered offense off the field. 3. the colts simply played bad...the commentators even mentioned several times and went to the replay of peyton just not even looking at wide open receivers. despite peyton's bad stats, he threw TWO incomplete passes in the first half!!!!!! one was a hail mary, the other was a dropped pass (NOT broken up by mcdonald--wayne catches the ball 9 out of 10 times) in the end zone!!! colts also had that drive where they decided to run the ball 4 straight times and got stuffed on the goalline...they could have easily scored 3 tds in the limited amount of possessions they had.
i guess i just disagree with you that the browns defense is worth a shit. bunch of no-talent ass-clowns. they have been fortunate a few times, and they ARE opportunistic, but even games where it appeared they played good games, if you look a bit deeper into things, they really didn't. i see no way in hell we even slow down tennessee. i really think this will get very ugly. and i definitely wouldn't count on dorsey not turning the ball over either. jamal lewis won't be able to run, and there will be pressure right up the middle all day long. only shot is if cribbs can put this team on his back and carry us to lose by 10 or 14. 34-3 tenn. really wish i could convince you, but you sound set in stone already. bol, i'll certainly be rooting for you, but my cash will be on the other side for sure. go browns.
they can't stop the run for anything. they don't do well against big receivers and can't cover tight ends for shit. sean jones is the most overrated player i've ever seen, mcdonald just can't cover anyone of any size, and we have no depth at corner for nickel and dime packages.
the colts performance is easily explainable, as i was on the browns in that one. 1. romeo knows the colts well and has had success against them even when our defense was the worst in the league and held them to 10 pts (i believe) years ago. back in his pats days and carried over to the browns, he does a good job of containing the colts 2. like you said throughout your post, we played ball control. indy had very few possessions in that game, which skewed the stats greatly. our offense matched up against their small defense and we were able to run the ball. this was the gameplan going in and it was a good one. keep a high powered offense off the field. 3. the colts simply played bad...the commentators even mentioned several times and went to the replay of peyton just not even looking at wide open receivers. despite peyton's bad stats, he threw TWO incomplete passes in the first half!!!!!! one was a hail mary, the other was a dropped pass (NOT broken up by mcdonald--wayne catches the ball 9 out of 10 times) in the end zone!!! colts also had that drive where they decided to run the ball 4 straight times and got stuffed on the goalline...they could have easily scored 3 tds in the limited amount of possessions they had.
i guess i just disagree with you that the browns defense is worth a shit. bunch of no-talent ass-clowns. they have been fortunate a few times, and they ARE opportunistic, but even games where it appeared they played good games, if you look a bit deeper into things, they really didn't. i see no way in hell we even slow down tennessee. i really think this will get very ugly. and i definitely wouldn't count on dorsey not turning the ball over either. jamal lewis won't be able to run, and there will be pressure right up the middle all day long. only shot is if cribbs can put this team on his back and carry us to lose by 10 or 14. 34-3 tenn. really wish i could convince you, but you sound set in stone already. bol, i'll certainly be rooting for you, but my cash will be on the other side for sure. go browns.
No problem Joe. Not 100% set in stone but pretty sure . Its not just the Colts game and by no means do I believe CLE has anything but a medicore defense which seems to play over its head sometimes. I think one thing your leaving out though is the fact they seem to know how to make plays when they need to. Which I watched the goal stand this eek vs Indy , but they held Pitt in check at home and they made plays vs the Giants offense as well . Wash barely did anything on them nor did Jax and both of those teams were playing much better .
They had a few bad defensive games but look at that 3 game stretch where the ppg were high . It was all about the sudden collapses they had in the 4th quarters .
I think way , way , way to much credit is being given to the Tenny offense. The offense is nothing to speak of. Det was the perfect storm ......Chris Johnson on turf , Det league worst rushing defense although it wasnt as bad at home , and off a SU loss where it could just wait for DET to self destruct . CLE hasnt had that type self destruction like DET . When they fuck up it becomes a close loss rather then a win but bot a blowout . I had the Browns on Sunday and again it just boiled down to Indy having no right laying -4.5 pts @ Cle. Same here Tenny has no right laying 2 TDs . I often misread a situation and attack it a week early . I feel very strongly this was the case in fading in Tenny last week.
The point is CLE just has to protect the ball play it safe and make Tenny work for their points . The Titans are a FG offense . I would not be suprised to see 4 FGs and 1 TD for Tenny....
I cant stress how I love that Kellen Winslow is NOT playing and Heiden is starting .
As bad as CLE has been they have what 4 losses by 4 points or less ? To Pitt , Indy , @Wash , Denver . Plus the Balt home game . McGinest is right they are executing a few plays better away from being 9-4 and they are the ONLY team to beat the Giants and they thumped us.
Tenny's overrated RUN game :
White 146c 575 yds all season 3.9YPC but @ Det and @ KC 40c 255yds = 106c 320yds or 3.0 YPC- if we take his next best game shocking its GB(8c 77 yds bused a 54yd run) also terrible vs the run he doesnt have any other games better then 3.9 YPC all season.
So minus his 3 top games 98c 243 yds on the season thats 2.5 yds a carry !!
Johnson 203c 958yds 4.7 yds but @ Det and @ KC 34c 293 yds = 169c 665yds or 3.9 YPC
I think people are forgetting what Tenny must do here to cover such a alrge number . The Titans defense is awesome but how many shutouts do they have ? NONE ! How games under 10 pts allowed do they have ? Only 1 with 7 points . So unless a new low is established the Titans must score 22 + points or more . They failed to do that in three of the 4 prior games before DET and they failed to do it 3 of their 6 home games this season.....
:shake:You guys seem to think CLE needs to lay well to cover and IMO thats just not that case . They just need to avoid alot of freebies IMHO .
They had a few bad defensive games but look at that 3 game stretch where the ppg were high . It was all about the sudden collapses they had in the 4th quarters .
I think way , way , way to much credit is being given to the Tenny offense. The offense is nothing to speak of. Det was the perfect storm ......Chris Johnson on turf , Det league worst rushing defense although it wasnt as bad at home , and off a SU loss where it could just wait for DET to self destruct . CLE hasnt had that type self destruction like DET . When they fuck up it becomes a close loss rather then a win but bot a blowout . I had the Browns on Sunday and again it just boiled down to Indy having no right laying -4.5 pts @ Cle. Same here Tenny has no right laying 2 TDs . I often misread a situation and attack it a week early . I feel very strongly this was the case in fading in Tenny last week.
The point is CLE just has to protect the ball play it safe and make Tenny work for their points . The Titans are a FG offense . I would not be suprised to see 4 FGs and 1 TD for Tenny....
I cant stress how I love that Kellen Winslow is NOT playing and Heiden is starting .
As bad as CLE has been they have what 4 losses by 4 points or less ? To Pitt , Indy , @Wash , Denver . Plus the Balt home game . McGinest is right they are executing a few plays better away from being 9-4 and they are the ONLY team to beat the Giants and they thumped us.
Tenny's overrated RUN game :
White 146c 575 yds all season 3.9YPC but @ Det and @ KC 40c 255yds = 106c 320yds or 3.0 YPC- if we take his next best game shocking its GB(8c 77 yds bused a 54yd run) also terrible vs the run he doesnt have any other games better then 3.9 YPC all season.
So minus his 3 top games 98c 243 yds on the season thats 2.5 yds a carry !!
Johnson 203c 958yds 4.7 yds but @ Det and @ KC 34c 293 yds = 169c 665yds or 3.9 YPC
I think people are forgetting what Tenny must do here to cover such a alrge number . The Titans defense is awesome but how many shutouts do they have ? NONE ! How games under 10 pts allowed do they have ? Only 1 with 7 points . So unless a new low is established the Titans must score 22 + points or more . They failed to do that in three of the 4 prior games before DET and they failed to do it 3 of their 6 home games this season.....
:shake:You guys seem to think CLE needs to lay well to cover and IMO thats just not that case . They just need to avoid alot of freebies IMHO .
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
One part where I absolutely agree with you is that Tenny has been playing over their head. That said, the Giants did that last year right about now and won it all, so there you go.
But where I think Tenny's been winning it is on defense. That's why I fear for the Browns this week. I don't think that the Titans are going to march up and down the field. In fact, I think the only way this over hits is if Tenny gets the vast majority of it themselves.
However, I do think that Tennessee can string together at least three or four scoring drives.
I fear that this Browns' offense cannot string together more than one.
I think they'll score, but I am afraid to say I have trouble seeing them score a touchdown--again, without a good bit of help.
I feel anywhere from three to nine points from the Browns, with my general margin for error in there of three-ish points I put their max point total at 13. More likely I'm thinking six.
Meanwhile I think you can get 21 or 24 points out of Tennessee, not a real impressive twenty points, probably not even the most dominating of performances, but enough to make them think they handled business and enough to underscore to the Browns that Ken Dorsey is not an NFL staring QB.
But that's just my guess.
But where I think Tenny's been winning it is on defense. That's why I fear for the Browns this week. I don't think that the Titans are going to march up and down the field. In fact, I think the only way this over hits is if Tenny gets the vast majority of it themselves.
However, I do think that Tennessee can string together at least three or four scoring drives.
I fear that this Browns' offense cannot string together more than one.
I think they'll score, but I am afraid to say I have trouble seeing them score a touchdown--again, without a good bit of help.
I feel anywhere from three to nine points from the Browns, with my general margin for error in there of three-ish points I put their max point total at 13. More likely I'm thinking six.
Meanwhile I think you can get 21 or 24 points out of Tennessee, not a real impressive twenty points, probably not even the most dominating of performances, but enough to make them think they handled business and enough to underscore to the Browns that Ken Dorsey is not an NFL staring QB.
But that's just my guess.
Fundamentally I agree JP.
Like I said to me trends pop up for reasons and deep into the year they find ways to continue. Example - Like I said Tenny has allowed at least 10 pts in every game this season but one the 7 pts allowed @ Cincy. Funny thing is the reason it happened to be only 7 was it IMO was still a close game late. The last Tenny TD came from a punt block so into the 4th Q and dont recall at what point but believe near midpoint it was still a 17-7 game . Now back to the 10 pts comment and the Tenny defense . Det scored 10 pts right ? How ? Near the end of the 1st H Collins get sacked and fumbles DET recovers takes it to the Tenny 2 . Bang DET TD. Look at that DET game . Can a defense smother an offense any more then that ?? Det had 13 possessions only 3 of the produced 10 or more net yards , only 1 time did they cross midfield , and only one other time did they cross their own 40 yd line . Hanson banged a 54 yd FG and they had a 2 YD TD pass . All that dominance and the game still find away to get DET 10 points .
So expecting CLE to dow worse then 6 pts really doesnt make sense because Tenny hasnt held anyone with all their great defense efforts to less then 7 points and besides that game everyone has scored at least 10 points . I believe that CLE worst games of the year offensivly have been 6 points .
So when guessing an expected score even though tough to conceive it hards to see why CLE doesnt get 6 points well really 7 points and 10 pts doesnt seem that unbelievable after all . All you need is one play to happen and it could be an easy 7 points . Just 1 play .
Now get back to CLE defense . Remember I said 12 games with 7 having points allowed of 17 or less and 5 with points allowed of 27 or more .
What happened in both home losses they lost ?? Both times Balt and Den had 13 points . Both times they went from good defensive efforts to ugly in a span of 15-16 minutes . Funny how both times the opponent had 13 points and then Balt scores a TD to get to 20 also gets 24 straight to the end the game. Same with Denver really the defense was solid holding them to 13 for 3 Qs . Then it unraveled and again the game find away that once it crossed 17 pts for the points to just keep piling on . Same thing happened @ Balt up 10-7 qucikly became 28-7 .....
Point is the game finds a way to keep the trend alive. Look at the NBA tonight . In ATL 199 total the game is bet up a few points and after 89 in the 1st H it lands on 200. The game finds a way to get over 199 . So when I look at stats I never look avgs . I look at what occurs each game and see if there is any rhyme or reason.
My whole point is if CLE is continually holding teams to 17 or less and 27 or more then those are the ranges I am going to base my expected score on . If Tenny never allowed less then 7 pts and almost always 10 points even when I find my worst case scenario I am going to be careful to not expect the trend to end with my prediction .
Maybe out of the box but its why when I concentrate I can hit Team Totals very well . I understand how the same numbers pop up for certain teams ....
So if the trends continue and CLE gets 10pts somehow and some way like every Tenny opponent has and Tennys offense plays well then breaks that 27+ pt barrier the game goes over . Which we seem to agree doesnt seem likely . Funny thing is Tenny home games have played out the same way . In 6 games 17 or less 3 x (19 vs GB that was OT so 16 in regulation) and the other 3 30 plus points which breaks the 27 + barrier ...
So even if Tenny gets those 4 scoring drives then TD and 3FGs produces 16 points .
Its why I think stats are so overrated in capping games because most numbers come in sequences .
Bedtime ...BOL JP...
So my conclusion is Tenny cant play and Under and cover the point spread . It only has 2 options on scoring ranges .......less then 17 and greater then 27 with a worst case scenario of 6 or 7 pts allowed . Thing is when Tenny cracked 27 it went straight to the low 30s . If the break that barrier they might be at 31 or more points and with 6 or 7 allowed that 37.5 total is on the screws . If Tenny scores 17 or less then the game is an under unless you believe CLE wins SU .....
Like I said to me trends pop up for reasons and deep into the year they find ways to continue. Example - Like I said Tenny has allowed at least 10 pts in every game this season but one the 7 pts allowed @ Cincy. Funny thing is the reason it happened to be only 7 was it IMO was still a close game late. The last Tenny TD came from a punt block so into the 4th Q and dont recall at what point but believe near midpoint it was still a 17-7 game . Now back to the 10 pts comment and the Tenny defense . Det scored 10 pts right ? How ? Near the end of the 1st H Collins get sacked and fumbles DET recovers takes it to the Tenny 2 . Bang DET TD. Look at that DET game . Can a defense smother an offense any more then that ?? Det had 13 possessions only 3 of the produced 10 or more net yards , only 1 time did they cross midfield , and only one other time did they cross their own 40 yd line . Hanson banged a 54 yd FG and they had a 2 YD TD pass . All that dominance and the game still find away to get DET 10 points .
So expecting CLE to dow worse then 6 pts really doesnt make sense because Tenny hasnt held anyone with all their great defense efforts to less then 7 points and besides that game everyone has scored at least 10 points . I believe that CLE worst games of the year offensivly have been 6 points .
So when guessing an expected score even though tough to conceive it hards to see why CLE doesnt get 6 points well really 7 points and 10 pts doesnt seem that unbelievable after all . All you need is one play to happen and it could be an easy 7 points . Just 1 play .
Now get back to CLE defense . Remember I said 12 games with 7 having points allowed of 17 or less and 5 with points allowed of 27 or more .
What happened in both home losses they lost ?? Both times Balt and Den had 13 points . Both times they went from good defensive efforts to ugly in a span of 15-16 minutes . Funny how both times the opponent had 13 points and then Balt scores a TD to get to 20 also gets 24 straight to the end the game. Same with Denver really the defense was solid holding them to 13 for 3 Qs . Then it unraveled and again the game find away that once it crossed 17 pts for the points to just keep piling on . Same thing happened @ Balt up 10-7 qucikly became 28-7 .....
Point is the game finds a way to keep the trend alive. Look at the NBA tonight . In ATL 199 total the game is bet up a few points and after 89 in the 1st H it lands on 200. The game finds a way to get over 199 . So when I look at stats I never look avgs . I look at what occurs each game and see if there is any rhyme or reason.
My whole point is if CLE is continually holding teams to 17 or less and 27 or more then those are the ranges I am going to base my expected score on . If Tenny never allowed less then 7 pts and almost always 10 points even when I find my worst case scenario I am going to be careful to not expect the trend to end with my prediction .
Maybe out of the box but its why when I concentrate I can hit Team Totals very well . I understand how the same numbers pop up for certain teams ....
So if the trends continue and CLE gets 10pts somehow and some way like every Tenny opponent has and Tennys offense plays well then breaks that 27+ pt barrier the game goes over . Which we seem to agree doesnt seem likely . Funny thing is Tenny home games have played out the same way . In 6 games 17 or less 3 x (19 vs GB that was OT so 16 in regulation) and the other 3 30 plus points which breaks the 27 + barrier ...
So even if Tenny gets those 4 scoring drives then TD and 3FGs produces 16 points .
Its why I think stats are so overrated in capping games because most numbers come in sequences .
Bedtime ...BOL JP...
So my conclusion is Tenny cant play and Under and cover the point spread . It only has 2 options on scoring ranges .......less then 17 and greater then 27 with a worst case scenario of 6 or 7 pts allowed . Thing is when Tenny cracked 27 it went straight to the low 30s . If the break that barrier they might be at 31 or more points and with 6 or 7 allowed that 37.5 total is on the screws . If Tenny scores 17 or less then the game is an under unless you believe CLE wins SU .....
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